Author Topic: Champions League Exit: the Inquest  (Read 18122 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« on: March 10, 2006, 09:24:31 am »
Expectations –– damned things. Liverpool Football Club has come a long way in the last 18 months –– to the point where a big setback feels like a catastrophe. Anyone thinking think is a disaster needs a wake-up call.

At the start of the season I felt the Reds would improve considerably in the league, getting around the 70-75 point mark (which the team is on course for), but realistically only make the quarter-finals of the Champions League, as everyone would be out to beat us; retaining a title is that much harder than winning it for the first time. Topping the group stage containing Chelsea and a Spanish side was a sign of the quality, but knock-out football will always spring surprises.

The draw against Benfica made the last eight look a distinct possibility, but this time around Liverpool were clear favourites, and burdened by the tag. And Benfica were surprisingly good –– not brilliant, but Ronald      Koeman is clearly a fine young coach, aided by the breaks at the right time and dangerous counter-attacking forwards. He was right to suggest luck was on his team's side, although the Reds could have done more to make sure luck was not a factor. 

Sometimes in cup competitions it's better to draw the bigger teams, as the pressure falls on their shoulders. If the Reds lost to Barcelona, there'd be a lot less disappointment. But a team like Barcelona is well in advance of where we're at, and if you catch them on a good day, as Chelsea discovered, there's not a lot you can do. Chelsea are also fairly well ahead of us, and yet their megabucks can't buy the one trophy they crave the most. Sometimes in Europe, it's just one slip that sees you eliminated.

I've seen people moaning about what an awful defence of the title it was, but last season's success, while well deserved, was a bonus out of the blue. If the team was at the peak of its powers last season, it would be a different matter; but it was a side that, under Gérard Houllier, had virtually fallen apart in recent seasons. Just take yourself back a couple of years, and see how far we've come.

Or take yourself back to the 1990s, when simply qualifying for Europe was often a struggle, let alone shining once there. Remember when the Uefa Cup felt like a big deal? I honestly never felt Liverpool would become Champions of Europe again, or even make another European Cup final. It seemed to belong to another era, and had become a bridge too far, after the Reds slipped into seasons of mediocrity. Let's enjoy that success, but not take it as a valid marker of where we were at in 2004/05. We were a club at the start of a transition.

Rafa added Luis Garcia and Xabi Alonso, but lost Michael Owen against his wishes. Losing Owen –– the club's one truly reliable goalscorer since the Fowler of the mid-to-late-90s, only made the rebuilding task more difficult, especially as the fee didn't allow a lot of scope for a like-for-like replacement.

Last summer the rebuilding was hampered by the Steven Gerrard saga. If Gerrard left, there'd be a big hole to fill but a lot of money in the kitty; if he stayed, there'd be less money, and different holes still to fill. Thankfully Gerrard stayed, but it did confuse the summer situation. Ultimately, he's the most important signing Rafa has made, but Gerrard's pay-rise also ate into the budget.

Straight after winning the Champions Leauge, Rafa had to undertake extensive rebuilding work, with six or seven positions in need of addressing, either as first choice or as cover. This summer, it'll be a question of two, possibly three at most.

We no longer need a reliable new goalkeeper, or young goalkeeping understudy. We no longer need a target man who can hold up the ball and bring others into play. We no longer need a pacy, energetic and hell-bent destroyer for the midfield to free up Gerrard to attack with so much more potency (providing Momo's eye heals as expected). We no longer need to worry about our captain being on a short-term contract and tempted by other offers.

We no longer need a deputy for Carra, with Gabriel Paletta on his way. We no longer need cover, and a long-term heir to Hyypia's place (how he was missed on Wednesday night), with the talented and composed Daniel Agger at the club. We no longer need to worry when Finnan is injured or in need of a rest, as Kromkamp proved against Charlton what an excellent –– and stylistically similar –– deputy he is, with the quality to make it a tough fight for the Irishman to keep his spot.

Perhaps most crucially, with regards to the long-term future of the club, we don't need to procure a dozen promising players under the age of 21 to provide variety and to bolster the (disappointingly) few genuinely promising local youth graduates: it's all been taken care of. Two 17-year-olds, Paul Anderson and Antonio Barragan, were on the bench against Benfica.

We don't need to worry about a desperate struggle to qualify for the Champions League (barring a real collapse), or not being good(ison) enough to get past the preliminary games once there. We don't need to worry about never keeping clean sheets. We don't need to worry about an inability to control games, or a failure to create chances.

There is a lot more right than there is wrong; although of course there are things that need addressing. But how many managers solve every single problem within 18 months of arriving at a club that is radically underachieving? Finding a top-class, reliable goalscorer is not easy; but it's easier than building the rest of the side.

The striking problem is definitely mental. It's about anxiety, and a lack of confidence. It has spread throughout the team, to the point where, this season at least, you could add Andrei Shevchenko and sense he'd go the same way. The four strikers on the books have nearly 600 career goals between them. They know how to score goals.

All strikers have confidence crises, but the problem is that all of our strikers are suffering them simultaneously, and it's become something insidiously feeding from one to the other. If one striker suddenly started scoring regularly, it would lift the burden on the others, and all four might start scoring, although in fairness to Cissé he barely plays up front.

Fowler, with three disallowed Kop-end goals, arguably needs a little more luck. For all the criticism heading his way, I'd actually like to see Morientes missing some chances, as too often he fails to anticipate the    opportunity. Maybe his mind is working too hard, as can happen, and he's trying to think of all the different positions he could take up, rather than just working on instinct and getting the best area. At least Fowler looks like being in the right place at the right time, yet again scoring a disallowed goal at the Kop end, this time for a corner curling out of play, which looked harsh to say the least.

I know it's frustrating, but it's one of those problems that will not easily correct itself. The summer will see at least one new striker at the club, so there's not a lot we can do in the meantime. All of the players will benefit from the summer break, when the hoodoo will no longer be an issue, and return fresh and hungrier ahead of next season.

In my piece for the official site I mentioned that the Reds would need some luck, and that's especially true of the strikers. I mentioned Luis Saha's winner at Wigan: But the Reds will also need the slice of luck that's been missing in some recent games. Just look at Manchester United's last minute winner at Wigan . . . Saha's shot deflects off a defender, hits the post, comes back and cannons off another defender and goes in.

Against Benfica, Crouch hit an identical shot that bounced off a defender and hit a post, but the remarkable luck Saha experienced was absent at Anfield.

Important Summer

It's easy to say now, but you can't help wonder how much better this side would be –– how close to complete –– with Michael Owen and Simao. However, those players without Crouch, Sissoko and Reina, who have helped us win so many games in radical league improvement, would leave us back at square one. To be better than we are now, we needed all the players.

In a grand irony, Simao's goal cost Liverpool several million pounds; with the aid of hindsight, Rick Parry might have bowed to Benfica's 11th-hour price hike. (Of course, had Simao been at Liverpool, Benfica would probably have already been out, and Liverpool's results would have been duly altered by cause and effect.)

Unfortunately, Owen and Simao would have cost the Reds £30m, and it highlights why Chelsea are such a force: such an outlay would be nothing to them, summer upon summer. The Reds have to earn that money, not simply find themselves given it. Rafa spent in the region of £30m on seventeen players this season, in revamping the whole squad. Many of those have come to the fore already, others will do so later.

It's actually now, with the new players bedded-in and the improvement in many areas clear to see (especially the spine of the team), that those final additions need to be made. It means being a little bit more patient and waiting a few months, and that's never easy, but this summer is the time to buy those two players the team patently needs.

It would have been a gamble to overspend last summer, and the club cannot risk doing a Leeds, and putting all its funds into one summer's business, only to regret it for years to come. You speculate to accumulate, but you don't not speculate with what you don't have.

Had Owen's hamstrings pinged (or his foot suffered a fracture, as at Newcastle) and Simao not settled, with the aid of hindsight we'd be calling it a bad investment.

Regardless, Liverpool's finances will again come under scrutiny. What's clear is that Rafa will need a healthy amount of money to spend –– unless he can procure someone like Darren Bent for £2m, as Charlton did. Bent would now cost £10m; a year ago it was a fifth of that amount.

'El Jefe' worked a miracle in Istanbul, but even despite massive strides this season, this is still a work-in-progress. Next season, however, is when things should be reaching fruition. If last season was a total work-in-progress, then this year is a partial work-in-progress. The third season of a manager's reign is when his stamp is on the team to the point where he can definitively call it his own, and expect it to function in the way he believes a team should.

The team will be altered come next August. Mark Gonzalez will provide the kind of blistering pace Cissé offers out wide, but with a wide-man's understanding of the game and how to use that speed effectively in those areas. There will finally be the arrival of a right-sided midfielder. And almost certainly a new striker will be bought. These will add the pace that is currently too absent in the attacking third.

So to conclude, I think we should focus on what has been improved this season –– and as listed, it's many things –– and then trust that the final issues are addressed in the summer. If they are not –– well, that's a discussion for then, not now.

© Paul Tomkins 2006
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Offline Something Else

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2006, 09:36:58 am »
fantastic, one of the best things i have read of yours or anyones in a couple of years

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Offline gjr1

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2006, 09:37:25 am »
:)

We are still in transition, more so when we won the European cup last year.

We where unlucky to have JAR and Sami missing. The stats argue they would not have scored if we have had the best back 5 playing.

But no matter how well, Crouch and Moro help build up play we need a someone, anyone to be able to put the ball in the back of the net.

We are in a great position but strikers will leave and strikers will come in the summer. Who they are on both sides of the equasion is for Rafa to decide.

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Offline nige

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2006, 09:41:22 am »
The striking problem is definitely mental. It's about anxiety, and a lack of confidence. It has spread throughout the team, to the point where, this season at least, you could add Andrei Shevchenko and sense he'd go the same way.

There will finally be the arrival of a right-sided midfielder. And almost certainly a new striker will be bought. These will add the pace that is currently too absent in the attacking third.
Slight contradiction between those last 2 passages, Paul ?

The four strikers on the books have nearly 600 career goals between them. They know how to score goals.
Surely very few of those goals in the cases of Crouch, Fowler & Morientes were scored in tandem with somebody as equally slow as they all are now.  A good proportion of the crowd on Wednesday would have fancied themselves against those 3 in a sprint  to the half way line.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2006, 09:43:20 am by nige »

Offline Ole Gunnar

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2006, 09:45:41 am »
Nice read. Always make me in a better mood to read your stuff.
When you read around the forum you would think that Liverpool where on the brink of relegation, not 3'rd in the league, and a much better side than two seasons ago. When people say we haven't made any progress in 18 months, you can only wonder how much they actually now about football.

And by the way, can you write more often please :P
« Last Edit: March 10, 2006, 10:07:35 am by Ole Gunnar »
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Offline gramck24

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2006, 09:52:47 am »
Cheers Paul, great read that.

Offline Lone Wolf

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2006, 09:53:52 am »
Top read, that Paul.  ;) Puts things in true perspective.

We HAVE improved radically from last season, we DO now have the spine (and a little bit more) of a side that can push on and try to challenge Chelsea and until the summer, what we've got is up front is what we're gonna have to use. There is still some way to go, but we're much nearer the end of the path than the start of it.

I'm not sure though, can someone help me out, is Gonzalez right or left sided? Coz people I know say he's right, but whenever Sky show that goal they're so fond of showing, he's on the left and he hits a left-footed beauty.

Rafa's now getting the depth of talent he wants (Palleta, Agger,Kromkamp, the midfield etc) all thats left is up top and the right-hand side, and he'll be working hard on them at the end of the season (World cup allowing).

Roll on 2006/7.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2006, 09:56:39 am by Waltonite »
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Offline hunnyza

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2006, 09:54:42 am »
i've got this article from michael owen msn blog and would like to share it with the rest..
just an insight from a striker point of view..

Michael Owen - March 08th 2006
 
I know it sounds like a cliché, but confidence really is a huge part of any footballer's game. It's not conscious, but if you have gone three or four games without a goal, there is something inside you that effects you. In football you don't really have time to think but there's something there. You're not running through thinking: "Right, I missed a chance in the 5th minute, I missed another one there, so I'm not going to score this, I'm just going to play safe", but there must be something subconscious altering your approach because it's too coincidental otherwise. Whenever I'm feeling on top of the world I only need one chance to score but if you've gone a couple of games without a goal, you need a few more chances to put one away.
 
When you're confident you want to chip the keeper, bend it round him, try something special, but when you're not you tend to just smack it or concentrate only on getting the ball on target. But, then, that's the difference between confidence and belief: however low your confidence is momentarily, that deep belief in yourself always comes through in the end - and once you've broken the bad run, and scored that goal, you're flying again. 


it's true that because of defeats, we tend to overlook how far we've actually progress this year. but, i always believe that everything happens for a reason. perhaps, we can see england lift the world cup this year since gerrard, carra will be extra fit for the tournament.  ;) (plus, some chelsea players as well..)

things will be better next season, definitely..we gonna get THE striker, the squad will be complete and liverpool will dominate the europe and PL again..

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2006, 09:58:50 am »
Slight contradiction between those last 2 passages, Paul ?


No, they're too different points, Nige. One is that the strikers currently missing chances are capable of scoring goals; the other is that a quicker option would almost certainly help us create even more chances (IMHO).

Just pointing out that these players can finish - they're not a load of Dioufs with very few career goals behind them. They *know* how to score goals, but the art is eluding them, because of confidence and a number of other factors. The chances are there, but with a quicker option alongside any of them, it can open up teams in different ways. We're creating chances, but a quicker striker could worry defences in a different way, and give us an extra option.

However, the combination isn't right, and I am desperate to see some pace up front, and more pace on the wings. Rafa may have different ideas, but a quick striker he trusts (so not Cissé) would stretch defences in different ways.

Offline bellinter

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2006, 10:02:18 am »
Nice one, great read
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Offline StevieG26

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2006, 10:03:06 am »
Nice read. Always make me in a better mood to read your stuff.
When you read around the forum you would think that Liverpool where on the brink of relegation, not 3'rd in the league, and a much better side than two seasons ago. When people say we made any progress in 18 months, you can only wonder how much they actually now about football.

And by the way, can you write more often please :P

It only goes to show how much Rafa has done to this side in the short time he's been here. I don't see anything wrong in criticising the team as long as it's constructive. After all everyone has his own opinion.

Great read. Thumbs up again :)
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Offline nige

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2006, 10:05:10 am »
No, they're too different points, Nige. One is that the strikers currently missing chances are capable of scoring goals; the other is that a quicker option would almost certainly help us create even more chances (IMHO).

Just pointing out that these players can finish - they're not a load of Dioufs with very few career goals behind them. They *know* how to score goals, but the art is eluding them, because of confidence and a number of other factors. The chances are there, but with a quicker option alongside any of them, it can open up teams in different ways. We're creating chances, but a quicker striker could worry defences in a different way, and give us an extra option.

However, the combination isn't right, and I am desperate to see some pace up front, and more pace on the wings. Rafa may have different ideas, but a quick striker he trusts (so not Cissé) would stretch defences in different ways.


We are basically in agreement, but in Nando's case the 'mental' problem seems to be  that he's  constantly  thinking to himself 'shit I just can't get there any more', 'shit, I used to have at least a BIT of acceleration, where's it gone ?', etc. You don't have to be a mind-reader to feel his pain. It's the same thing Robbie went through a few years back, but more dramatic, and Nando is having to adjust to  a new pace of football entirely, with nobody else's pace to help him.

I'm not saying more pace would have helped Crouchie put away his easy chance, no, and the game turned on that moment in which pace was not a  significant factor, but we needed Crouchie & a quick man up front on Wednesday.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2006, 10:17:14 am by nige »

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2006, 10:20:44 am »
We are basically in agreement, but part of Nando's 'mental' problem seems to be  that he's  constantly  thinking to himself 'shit I just can't get there any more', 'shit, I used to have at least a BIT of acceleration, where's it gone ?', etc. You don't have to be a mind-reader to feel his pain.


I guess what I'm saying is that all our strikers can score goals - but admittedly not enough in the recent past. In fact, only Crouch has been prolific in the last 18 months (last season). One striker who would almost guarantee 20+ goals would help those like Fowler, Crouch and Morientes (with Cissé certain to go, it seems) to chip in without so much pressure to score *all* the goals. Someone like Owen (for example) scoring regularly would lift the burden from Crouch, and then Crouch could relax and chip in. Now we're playing 4-4-2, and not 4-5-1, a pacy player playing off Crouch, or ahead of Morientes or Fowler, would give us a better balance. But it has to be someone the boss has faith in, ruling out Cissé.

Right, that's my explaining done - I'll now leave the piece to fend for itself.

Offline brunny

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2006, 10:40:25 am »
No, they're too different points, Nige. One is that the strikers currently missing chances are capable of scoring goals; the other is that a quicker option would almost certainly help us create even more chances (IMHO).

Just pointing out that these players can finish - they're not a load of Dioufs with very few career goals behind them. They *know* how to score goals, but the art is eluding them, because of confidence and a number of other factors. The chances are there, but with a quicker option alongside any of them, it can open up teams in different ways. We're creating chances, but a quicker striker could worry defences in a different way, and give us an extra option.

However, the combination isn't right, and I am desperate to see some pace up front, and more pace on the wings. Rafa may have different ideas, but a quick striker he trusts (so not Cissé) would stretch defences in different ways.



bril post paul keep up the good work.

also do you think that its just a lack of confidence, or maybe something more deep about the forward play and the type of chances?
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Offline Murf

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2006, 10:47:11 am »
. Great read that, now all you losers who have ripped us apart sinceWednesday, s ay sorry:)
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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2006, 10:48:13 am »
Good Article, thanks for that.

I like the honesty, and realism, the fact that things are better than what they were before, but Paul pulls no punches in admitting there is still work to be done, and it was refreshing to see someone else noticing that Cisse hasn't been given much chance up front (not saying it would work, but at least it's time to find out and give him a run of games there).

I also liked the idea of what might have been with Owen/Simao etc...   

It's a positive article, and puts things in perspective. I think when the dust settles common sense will show us how far we've come, as the past few days have shown how much further we need to go.

Offline cowlos

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2006, 10:58:31 am »
Thanks Paul. An interesting read and it puts all the last couple of days press bleats into perspective. Leaving the ground on Wednesday I was as down as everyone else. It was disappointing to be knocked out, but I was reminded again of why we are different.
The way we thanked the team for what they gave us on the 25th May is something that a lot of clubs could learn from. They gave me one if not the best days of my life and I'm confident there will be more.
With Rafa in charge I have confidence he will take us back to the same peaks.  I won't spend the summer worrying about lack of funds, who's going or who's coming. Not even thinking too much about England. My only concern is keeping Rafa at Anfield and ensuring we continue to progress next year.

Offline sheff-jim

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2006, 11:09:46 am »
Does anyone e;se feel we need a really top class left back this summer as well? I knoe Riise is good, but he's not top class, more a solid player.

Offline StevieG26

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2006, 11:12:48 am »
Does anyone e;se feel we need a really top class left back this summer as well? I knoe Riise is good, but he's not top class, more a solid player.

I think we need a replacement for Warnock. I admire the lad in that he's honest and hard-working but it just doesn't click to me. Don't really believe we should go for a world-class left-back though. Another Kromkamp would do fine plus we need the funds to replace our strikeforce and right-wing.
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Offline GIPPO77

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2006, 11:13:03 am »
FFS..wots wrong with Riise..he is class.
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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2006, 11:15:36 am »
The inquest is definitely underway, but the season isn't over yet.  There's still 2nd place to play for and a small matter of the F.A. Cup.  ;)

Should the squad fail miserably in either of these two areas, heads are sure to roll.  Somehow I don't see that happening.  The strikers have to come good sometime soon as they are sure to know that they are now fighting for their Anfield futures and in some cases, their place in their respective countries world cup squad (re: Cisse).

The remainder of the season is sure to be an interesting ride despite us no longer being involved in the European Cup.

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2006, 11:16:24 am »
Thanks Paul. An interesting read and it puts all the last couple of days press bleats into perspective. Leaving the ground on Wednesday I was as down as everyone else. It was disappointing to be knocked out, but I was reminded again of why we are different.
The way we thanked the team for what they gave us on the 25th May is something that a lot of clubs could learn from. They gave me one if not the best days of my life and I'm confident there will be more.
With Rafa in charge I have confidence he will take us back to the same peaks.  I won't spend the summer worrying about lack of funds, who's going or who's coming. Not even thinking too much about England. My only concern is keeping Rafa at Anfield and ensuring we continue to progress next year.
Exactly right.

If Rafa stays and I think he will, we will progress again. Maybe not to win the title but the gap will be reduced again.

The squad is starting to look less vulnerable to bad luck now also with good cover all over when the summer arrivals get here.

Offline pinky

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2006, 11:16:58 am »
fantastic, one of the best things i have read of yours or anyones in a couple of years

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Offline StevieG26

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2006, 11:19:36 am »
The inquest is definitely underway, but the season isn't over yet.  There's still 2nd place to play for and a small matter of the F.A. Cup.  ;)

Should the squad fail miserably in either of these two areas, heads are sure to roll.  Somehow I don't see that happening.  The strikers have to come good sometime soon as they are sure to know that they are now fighting for their Anfield futures and in some cases, their place in their respective countries world cup squad (re: Cisse).

The remainder of the season is sure to be an interesting ride despite us no longer being involved in the European Cup.

Agree with you there mate. It's very, very disappointing we went out of the CL in that manner, especially since I would've loved us to show Simao what he was missing. But our season is far from over. Although I'm not particularly confident about getting 2nd place, I think we'll get an extended run in the F.A. Cup.
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Offline Buster 'Hook Hand' Bluth

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2006, 11:22:15 am »
Does anyone e;se feel we need a really top class left back this summer as well? I knoe Riise is good, but he's not top class, more a solid player.



All our best defensive performances have come with Riise in the team. In every possible statistical way of looking it, Riise is the defender whose presence coincides with the team's best results and most clean sheets.

It may be coincidence, but if it is, is one bloody great coincidence. At the very least, it proves he's not a weak link, as the team defends well when he's at left back.
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Offline eskdale

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2006, 11:22:16 am »
Good read that Paul, well put and reminds us all of where we are compared to this time 2 years ago. The team is by far stronger and more experienced now and more importantly the team is more of a "team" now . . . the futures bright

Offline cornelius

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2006, 11:23:59 am »

We no longer need a deputy for Carra, with Gabriel Paletta on his way. We no longer need cover, and a long-term heir to Hyypia's place (how he was missed on Wednesday night), with the talented and composed Daniel Agger at the club. We no longer need to worry when Finnan is injured or in need of a rest, as Kromkamp proved against Charlton what an excellent –– and stylistically similar –– deputy he is, with the quality to make it a tough fight for the Irishman to keep his spot.

Perhaps most crucially, with regards to the long-term future of the club, we don't need to procure a dozen promising players under the age of 21 to provide variety and to bolster the (disappointingly) few genuinely promising local youth graduates: it's all been taken care of. Two 17-year-olds, Paul Anderson and Antonio Barragan, were on the bench against Benfica.

Oh well we're sorted then  ::)

I can't help feeling there's a lot of assumption in there. How can you possibly conclude after a couple of appearances that those players have solved a lot of our long term problems? Don't tell me you've forgotten Josemi already.


The striking problem is definitely mental. It's about anxiety, and a lack of confidence. It has spread throughout the team, to the point where, this season at least, you could add Andrei Shevchenko and sense he'd go the same way. The four strikers on the books have nearly 600 career goals between them. They know how to score goals.

You really have become a sort of unofficial Alistair Campbell for the club.

I admire your chirpy optimism but there seems to be a bit too much sugar coated club propaganda going on.

I agree that some people have gone over the top since wednesday and in fact have acted like spoiled brats but equally a lot of have gone in the opposite direction with a head in the sand outlook. There's real cause for concerns at the moment IMO. We have what looks like a tricky little run in which under normal circumstances might not seem so bad but I do wonder how we will get on in games against Arsenal, Newcastle, West Ham away and Bolton at home given that we couldn't hit an Eddie Stobart lorry in a pub car park right now.

It does look like we've made great strides in the premiership this year but there are still a number of unpleasant scenarios that could yet unfold. We could go out of the cup at any time and a top 4 place has by no means been secured yet. I don't really fear Spurs to be honest but then two weeks ago I didn't really fear Benfica. If you think the vitriol being spewed is bad now imagine what it would be like if we were to miss out on Champions League qualification and get knocked out of the FA cup by Birmingham (or worse Chelsea in the semi or final). I'm reserving my judgement on whether we really have kicked on until the season is over.

Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2006, 11:25:34 am »
Strikers confidence? Dont know about that one to be honest as I feel far more is linked to their ability or lack of.

For me Crouch does not have the ability to be clinical whereas Morientes just does not have the ability anymore.

Whilst I am happy with our progress and can only see great things in the future I am not of the opinion that the reason we lost was because our strikers lack confidence and we didn't get the luck.

Wrong team on the night. Simple as that for me. Morientes and Crouch should not have been playing together up top on a night when we needed two or more goals.

Whilst Rafa is a great man, he picked the wrong team as far as I am concerned.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2006, 11:28:41 am by Johnnyboy1973 »
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Offline Tahir

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2006, 11:29:28 am »
good thread.

and yes, we need better cover for left back. warnock and traore aren't good enough.

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2006, 11:54:52 am »
You really have become a sort of unofficial Alistair Campbell for the club.

I admire your chirpy optimism but there seems to be a bit too much sugar coated club propaganda going on.


I'm merely trying to look at what we've achieved in the last 18 months, including this season, and coming on here to say there's no reason for doom and gloom. No mention of everything being perfect - just that some problems can't be solved until the summer.

As for the kids and new players I mentioned, of course they solve nothing *yet*, but they've been bought and need to be given the benefit of the doubt. But scouting promising kids is important, so stop being an utter tit and appreciate the work that's gone in there. Mentioning Josemi is moronic - any transfer could fail, but my point was that Rafa was ADDRESSING the problem areas. Only time will tell whether it's the perfect solution or not.

Oh, and by the way, I am not paid by the club, and can write what I want for the unofficial fan sites. That I choose not to shit my pants and think the sky is falling (apt avatar, btw) every time we have a bad result or a problem doesn't make me a spin doctor or propagandist. What I write for the club's official site is of course a more positive "spin" on things, but that's the nature of the beast.

Anyway, enough justifying myself.

Offline LincsRedbob

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2006, 12:02:19 pm »
to be honest i cant wait until next season already. We seem to be running on empty and the spark is hard to find during games.

Yes the FA Cup would be very nice and has now become very important. Second place has to be the main aim though. We realy need a moral boosting game cant realy see that until West Brom on 1st April. Hard work and graft is all we can do.
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Offline sunilo

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2006, 12:02:28 pm »
Yep. no need to panic. Heading in the right direction.

Compare this season and last. Not just for us, but Arsenal and Man U have become less consistent in the league. Chelsea, well have they really improved as much as they have spent? Are they that much better than last season?

I think out of the big 4/5, ourselves and Spurs have made the biggest improvement.

Offline Red number seven

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2006, 12:27:42 pm »
:)

We where unlucky to have JAR and Sami missing. The stats argue they would not have scored if we have had the best back 5 playing.


I agree we were unlucky to be without Riise, but Sami? Why wasn't he rested vs Charlton when he is massively crucial and has a more than able deputy who was cup tied? Unless Agger was injured (in which case I retract this and agree we were unlucky!!!), I think this is a rare Rafa error.

I think our defeat came from that cheap, unforced goal even more than our lack of a real, on form predator - we were well on top, making chances and, I believe, would have scored, had we kept the tie (and crowd) alive with a clean sheet, and made Benfica more and more nervous.

I think with the big fella in there we would have done just that.
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And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline Red number seven

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2006, 12:32:32 pm »


All our best defensive performances have come with Riise in the team. In every possible statistical way of looking it, Riise is the defender whose presence coincides with the team's best results and most clean sheets.

It may be coincidence, but if it is, is one bloody great coincidence. At the very least, it proves he's not a weak link, as the team defends well when he's at left back.

It's neither coincidence nor because Riise is Maldini's heir apparent - it's because he's a decent player in a well drilled back four unit, but his cover is dog awful and totally fucks up said unit.
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And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline cornelius

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2006, 12:33:34 pm »
Anyway, enough justifying myself.
But you obviously felt the need to.
That I choose not to shit my pants and think the sky is falling (apt avatar, btw) every time we have a bad result or a problem doesn't make me a spin doctor or propagandist.
I can honestly say that the only time I've ever shit my pants was at loftus road but that's a different story altogether. Besides who's shitting their pants? I think it's quite obvious from my post that I'm pretty much keeping a level head on things. I've not gone over the top in my criticisms but nor have I buried my head in the sand.

You may not feel that your a propagandist but you're certainly an apologist. To always have the glass half full no matter what is neither realistic or objective. And as a columnist how can you not be objective?

I couldn't give a fuck about winning any popularity contests on here, I'll always say what I believe is right even if it does mean criticising the club and manager from time to time.

And Claw, take your tongue out of his arse, he's not a fucking dog.

Offline Walk On

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2006, 12:35:34 pm »
Yes the FA Cup would be very nice and has now become very important. Second place has to be the main aim though. We realy need a moral boosting game cant realy see that until West Brom on 1st April. Hard work and graft is all we can do.

I think how the team approaches the FA Cup and the chase for 2nd spot will give Rafa a good idea of the mentality of the players.  More specifically, who has the passion and drive to succeed at Liverpool and who will need to be shipped out.

Agreed that 2nd place is more important than the cup.  I'm really dreading this world cup and the potential burnout that our squad may suffer as a result, hence the need to qualify 2nd and avoid the European Cup qualifiers.
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2006, 12:36:51 pm »
And Claw, take your tongue out of his arse, he's not a fucking dog.

You tell him TC.








Only joking Jon.
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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2006, 12:37:08 pm »

stop being an utter tit and appreciate the work that's gone in there. Mentioning Josemi is moronic

That I choose not to shit my pants and think the sky is falling (apt avatar, btw) every time we have a bad result or a problem doesn't make me a spin doctor or propagandist.

Anyway, enough justifying myself.

I think that's harsh.

I always like your articles, Paul, both because they are usually well written and because there's always an angle in there somewhere I haven't thought of.

But if you write Opinion pieces, you're open to criticism. I didn't think there was anything personal in what Cornelius said (maybe the Campbell bit) but you've gone to town on him a little. He just happens to be less upbeat than you.

Offline Red number seven

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2006, 12:48:00 pm »

I'm merely trying to look at what we've achieved in the last 18 months, including this season, and coming on here to say there's no reason for doom and gloom. No mention of everything being perfect - just that some problems can't be solved until the summer.

As for the kids and new players I mentioned, of course they solve nothing *yet*, but they've been bought and need to be given the benefit of the doubt. But scouting promising kids is important, so stop being an utter tit and appreciate the work that's gone in there. Mentioning Josemi is moronic - any transfer could fail, but my point was that Rafa was ADDRESSING the problem areas. Only time will tell whether it's the perfect solution or not.

Oh, and by the way, I am not paid by the club, and can write what I want for the unofficial fan sites. That I choose not to shit my pants and think the sky is falling (apt avatar, btw) every time we have a bad result or a problem doesn't make me a spin doctor or propagandist. What I write for the club's official site is of course a more positive "spin" on things, but that's the nature of the beast.

Anyway, enough justifying myself.

I agree with the gist of the article, that we have made great progress and that we have more to be pleased about than pissed off about (even if it didn't feel like it Wednesday night!)

As usual our close season will be painted as a make or break crossroads, where in fact, what we need is a bit of tweaking. As you suggest Simao and Owen (or two similar players) would make all the difference to our side - I think we're good and pretty well covered everywhere except Right mid and up front.

My only slight argument with the piece is that you don't discuss who, if anyone, of our four (5 including FSP) strikers is NOT up to it and should/will be moved on. I'm sure you have an opinion on this, as you clearly think we need better up top.

For me, I feel sorry for Nando as he just looks like he wants to give his all but ultimately is too frightened to take the responsibility to shoot/miss/score and so will not become the player we thought we'd signed - he still has a value in his home country, I'm sure, and may be useful in part ex or raise 3 or four million.

Cisse I have changed my mind on - there was a time when I though Rafa was mad not giving him a chance, and I guess part of me would still like to see him given a few runs off Crouch up top, but ultimately I think his first touch isn't up to it, and he is not cute enough one on one to be a top class forward - plus we can get some cash for him (like to think 8, more likely about 6)

Crouch offers us an option, he is clever, has first touch and is our best back to goal forward, bringing midfielders into play etc His finishing is painful and needs a lot of work. I would hold onto him for now, though.

Robbie looks like he might score a few from the bench. Those dreaming of a return of the legend of the 'Fowler of old' will be sorely disappointed, but his fitness, willingness and the fact he is on small wages and would raise little in transfer funds means I think he is a good '4th striker' who deserves a second season.

FSP I think is a lively lad who changes games. Not yet good enough to be a regular starter buit, again, a good sub option who should benefit from his loan and should stay. I wished he was available last Wednesday.
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Offline el guapo

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Re: Champions League Exit: the Inquest
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2006, 01:02:23 pm »
Paul, another considered and rational assessment, thank you, once again you have hit a hole in one. However, I can't help but succumb to emotion as I yearn for the time when we are no longer as GH said "not the finished article" or now "a work in progress", this always seems to be just out of grasp. We may be able to improve our squad, we certainly need to improve our killer instinct.