Author Topic: Education Secretary Wants A Slap  (Read 28225 times)

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2013, 10:38:58 pm »
I have had the dubious joys of being taught in the public and private sector. The major difference, besides the obvious class size and resource issues, is the breadth and quality of extra curricular activity. If the plan was to vastly increase the funding and provision of non-classroom time in school - then I could make a good case. Increasing the amount of sport and physical activity in that extra time would be a boon. But this is not what he is suggesting. Yet again, it is the price of everything, value of nothing philosophy writ large again.
Absolutely spot on SP.

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Offline Elli

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2013, 10:48:05 pm »
I went to an independent high school which ran something like 8:50am to 4pm, but had LONGER holidays (July 3rd to Sept 3rd was a typical summer).

I'm a Primary teacher; I get in at 7:30am, leave between 5 and 6pm, work at home and over the weekend. If they want more from me they will need to take blood. I'm sick of the scrutiny culture and working on my route out.

Until I read this thread I hadn't compared Gove's approach to teachers to Thatcher's approach to miners, but now that the link has been made for me, I can't put it down. He is a dangerously powerful man, considering his staggering lack of empathy, understanding or knowledge of his subject.

Gove is a four letter word, indeed.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2013, 11:32:03 pm »
Everything the man says and does is deliberately goading teachers into a fight. Gove is targeting teachers in the same way that Thatcher went for the miners and steelworkers. He is spoiling for a fight. We are under constant attack and we are fucking sick of it. Morale in the profession is at an all time low.

Spot on see it every day and less people wanting to come in to it, however Gove needs to do the maths he has a longer summer break than the teachers do.
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Offline monkeyharris

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2013, 12:55:59 am »


Could have huge implications in a way he hasn't considered.
The utter prick never takes anything other than his own jaundiced prejudiced Victorian self centre deluded views into consideration particularly the views of the teaching profession and those kids and parents who dont lap up the vitriol spouted by the mail and telegraph
No real surprise he's found another crazed idea to demoralise teachers more and benefit pupils even less
How much more damage can he cause in the time he has left?
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Offline Fanxxxxtastic

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2013, 12:59:33 am »
Gove should work longer hours for less pay

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Offline SP

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2013, 09:35:23 am »
Gove should work longer hours for less pay

You want him to do more damage? Gardening leave is surely the best option for the little shit bag. Any man who feels the need to write a forward for the Bible for the nation's kids is clearly the last person who should be anywhere near education. 

Offline Red in Korea

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2013, 09:42:16 am »
The Asian argument also falls flat because the folk out here idolise the Western education system and hold it on a pedestal. The strength of Asian students is not found in the length of school hours, but in the Confucian-based belief that education is the most important thing a parent can give to a child and this the kids are expected to study all hours whether they are at school or not. My experience of 16 years of teaching in Asia says that the education system here is not one to be adopted in England.
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Offline KiNki

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2013, 11:13:00 am »
its not about the education system at all.

its all about money/cost.   Break the teachers current contract, teachers strike, government don't have to pay teachers, working parents get pissed off at striking teachers, businesses get pissed off workers taking time off, the newspapers and media have a go at striking teachers, teachers relent and contracts are changed.  If kids are in school doing 8-10 hours - the government dont have to pay child care costs.  If kids are in school for most daylight hours, single parents, part time working parents, getting benefits to cover the fact they cant work full time hours cos of child care issues, no longer have that excuse.   Go and get a full time job, your kid is in full time school, so you work full time.  Cant get a full time job in sixth months.  Well there's you booted off jobseekers.  If you do get a full time job. No need for gov to pay for free school meals, school clothing grants, cos any parent earning 15/16k - the average full time wage - is now above the threshold for the freebies, which probably extends to child tax credit, working tax credit and you can now pay full dib of council tax and on and on.

its everything to do with stop sponging and get on your bike and work. 

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2013, 12:16:42 pm »
its not about the education system at all.

its all about money/cost.   Break the teachers current contract, teachers strike, government don't have to pay teachers, working parents get pissed off at striking teachers, businesses get pissed off workers taking time off, the newspapers and media have a go at striking teachers, teachers relent and contracts are changed.  If kids are in school doing 8-10 hours - the government dont have to pay child care costs.  If kids are in school for most daylight hours, single parents, part time working parents, getting benefits to cover the fact they cant work full time hours cos of child care issues, no longer have that excuse.   Go and get a full time job, your kid is in full time school, so you work full time.  Cant get a full time job in sixth months.  Well there's you booted off jobseekers.  If you do get a full time job. No need for gov to pay for free school meals, school clothing grants, cos any parent earning 15/16k - the average full time wage - is now above the threshold for the freebies, which probably extends to child tax credit, working tax credit and you can now pay full dib of council tax and on and on.

its everything to do with stop sponging and get on your bike and work. 

This has a lot to do with Gove trying to look powerful by taking on the Unions for his tilt at Call me Dave's job once Dave has stopped hanging onto Thatcher's shroud and their popularity goes down again.

He is an agenda fool, he reminds me of when I was a pupil in School in the fifties and sixties, he is the back to the past man,  he probably watches old Wacko shows, certainly Grange Hill would be way too modern for him.

The guy has done untold damage to the well being of Teachers and through that the Support Staff ! This is also not great for the students to have so many demotivated teachers in front of them, its a testament to the profession that they still try to deliver excellent lessons!

 He has pushed his antinquated  ideology and demeaning comments to the limit of tolerance  I dont like striking it harms everyone but Gove has created a no option situation for the rank and file members now and it is an inevitable outcome and the one he probably hoped for:

 He has left Students bewildered by his u turn a few months ago! Every Head Teacher from a wide range of schools universally feel undermined by him and have no time for him at all.

Christ the man lives in a time warp of Religious Instruction and a British Empire.

Thank god i retire in just a few years !

A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline TSC

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2013, 01:59:27 pm »
If only the mines were still open and coal fires were all the rage then we could send em all back scrubbing up the chimneys where they belong....

Offline Surprise me.

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2013, 02:41:55 pm »
If it were up to me I would have it so that after year 10 up until year 12 you would have to live in school. Boarding school style system. Just like university. Still get to see your family since the schools are close, the only difference is that you'll have to learn to take care of yourself on weekdays, you can go home on weekends or whatever.

In terms of school hours I think working until 4pm would be good but then you'll have longer holidays. Just try to replicate how it is at university. It just adds to helping each student become independent. Of course the cost would be crazy so I say this without thinking about the red tape involved.

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2013, 03:04:04 pm »
Yesterday when i heard about this, i presumed it was a attack on the child care cost to the benefits bill, by aiming it at what they consider to be a easy target. AKA Bullying
Today i hear satisfactory will now be un-satisfactory

I wonder who will feel the Third Prong.

Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2013, 09:16:40 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/zDZFcDGpL4U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/zDZFcDGpL4U</a>

Always thought there was some interesting ideas in that vid

Offline Conocinico

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2013, 09:59:49 pm »
That was great.
This sentence is not provable

Offline MHLC

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2013, 10:20:18 pm »
I have had the dubious joys of being taught in the public and private sector. The major difference, besides the obvious class size and resource issues, is the breadth and quality of extra curricular activity. If the plan was to vastly increase the funding and provision of non-classroom time in school - then I could make a good case. Increasing the amount of sport and physical activity in that extra time would be a boon. But this is not what he is suggesting. Yet again, it is the price of everything, value of nothing philosophy writ large again.

Spot on. My school days in the early 90's often lasted 30-45 mins longer if we were lucky enough to find the gym unlocked and the P.E. teacher in a good mood. It meant we could entertain ourselves by playing basketball and keeping fit.

Like you I doubt any money would be made available to schools to offer a choice of extra-curricular activities. It all boils down to this:
I really think the reasons behind this are about getting more mums out to work. Schools open longer and less holidays offer free child care and allow both or single parents to work.

Was my first thought too. This idea is nothing to do with improving education or enriching the nations youth, it's about the governments naked desire to boost economic output any which way it can.

Offline KiNki

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2013, 10:24:37 pm »
Yep. Very interesting video.  Wonder what gove makes of it.  It would probably mess with his head much.

Offline Cre_mCr_cker

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2013, 12:05:00 am »

Thoughts?


Gove's a total fucking imbecile.
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Offline planet-terror

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2013, 09:38:26 am »
Sounds like a lot of tripe to me,further alienates kids from their families,longer days in school,less time at home..Not for me..Would much rather class sizes came down.Standard/Quality of education/teachers up.
bollocks

Offline Jshooters

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2013, 09:45:22 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/zDZFcDGpL4U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/zDZFcDGpL4U</a>

Always thought there was some interesting ideas in that vid

That lecture was incredible!
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2013, 10:40:22 am »
Everything the man says and does is deliberately goading teachers into a fight. Gove is targeting teachers in the same way that Thatcher went for the miners and steelworkers. He is spoiling for a fight. We are under constant attack and we are fucking sick of it. Morale in the profession is at an all time low.

They are using the same tactic against the NHS and trying to lower public opinion of it slowly
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2013, 10:46:24 am »
They are using the same tactic against the NHS and trying to lower public opinion of it slowly

Nah they're not, they're just destroying it by introducing rules that effectively privatise under the guise of adding competition to improve the service.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2013, 10:56:08 am »
But that's happened in education too.

Free schools.

An example.

A free school is opened by a private school group near to one of their existing schools.

We pay to set up the school and pay for accommodation.

A year later, the private school trust closes the private school and the kids move to the free school.

The private school site is then sold for  several million.

It's extraordinary.

We've handed these groups millions to do nothing.
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Offline Thé_Ḓárk_P̌áşşéngér

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2013, 12:28:30 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/zDZFcDGpL4U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/zDZFcDGpL4U</a>

Always thought there was some interesting ideas in that vid

I was just looking, unsuccessfully, for that video while reading through the first page; I should have known it would be here somewhere. ;)
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Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2013, 12:33:59 pm »
Finland's education system is arguably the best in europe.

they also get no homework
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #64 on: April 20, 2013, 12:37:40 pm »
It's not about the length of the day, but the quality of the teaching. Doesn't make fuck all difference whether you're there for 2 hours or 10 hours, if the teaching's crap the results will be crap. Fact is, there needs to be a new curriculum which is less based on remembering information, and repeating in an exam, and more on learning. Needs to be more life skills taught, and not just going on about God making the world in 6 days, and how to find out the circumference of triangles.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #65 on: April 20, 2013, 12:56:04 pm »
It's not about the length of the day, but the quality of the teaching. Doesn't make fuck all difference whether you're there for 2 hours or 10 hours, if the teaching's crap the results will be crap. Fact is, there needs to be a new curriculum which is less based on remembering information, and repeating in an exam, and more on learning. Needs to be more life skills taught, and not just going on about God making the world in 6 days, and how to find out the circumference of triangles.
This will not happen.

Exams are used to measure school performance almost more than that of the kids sitting them.

This is the reason why your idea (which is excellent) will not be accepted.  Politics.
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Offline Thé_Ḓárk_P̌áşşéngér

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #66 on: April 20, 2013, 01:02:51 pm »
It's not about the length of the day, but the quality of the teaching. Doesn't make fuck all difference whether you're there for 2 hours or 10 hours, if the teaching's crap the results will be crap. Fact is, there needs to be a new curriculum which is less based on remembering information, and repeating in an exam, and more on learning. Needs to be more life skills taught, and not just going on about God making the world in 6 days, and how to find out the circumference of triangles.

Empirically speaking, isn't that the fundamental issue to hand? The belief that memory is the bedrock of intellect? So the more quality data you feed into the little darlings the more productive they'll be in the capitalistic society in which we live. The main problem with the Tories is their retrospective view of the world: no fucking prescience.
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Offline ۩ Imperator ۩

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #67 on: April 20, 2013, 01:52:52 pm »
Yep, and the truth is that never in the history of the world has there been LESS need to remember facts. They are there at the fingertips of every fourteen year old. The skills that our children need are those of data sorting and evaluation. In this regard, subjects like history take on huge significance, as they teach children to compare, contrast and evaluate pieces of information and to come up with reliable conclusions. So what does Gove do to the history curriculum? He turns it back into a list of British kings and queens and dates to be learnt, because "it never did him any harm". The bloke is a fucking retard.
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Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2013, 02:41:53 pm »
Yep, and the truth is that never in the history of the world has there been LESS need to remember facts. They are there at the fingertips of every fourteen year old. The skills that our children need are those of data sorting and evaluation. In this regard, subjects like history take on huge significance, as they teach children to compare, contrast and evaluate pieces of information and to come up with reliable conclusions. So what does Gove do to the history curriculum? He turns it back into a list of British kings and queens and dates to be learnt, because "it never did him any harm". The bloke is a fucking retard.

Totally agree.

There is a large tendency for us to 'outsource' our actual facts now, I'm as guilty as anyone and I'm 30 and remember pre-internet days. Kids these days are boggled when you tell them you did your GCSE's without it.

 and kids every day say to me things like - 'why bother learning maths without a calculator, when calculators exist?' - now in the past, there may have been many situations where you were out without your pencil case, whereas now I'd say 95% of the schoolkids have a phone with one on. I'm obviously not saying we should forget teaching arithmetic, but the point is the world is changing rapidly and the curriculum needs to keep up.

Learning facts by rote is so pointless when Google is three seconds away at your fingertips. You are absolutely right that history teaching you about reliable/primary/secondary/biased sources is IMPERATIVE when you realise that Google is ruled by commercial interests and algorithms, and that clicking the first link will not always give you appropriate results. Evaluating sources is going to be extremely important.
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Offline Thé_Ḓárk_P̌áşşéngér

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2013, 02:45:09 pm »
Yep, and the truth is that never in the history of the world has there been LESS need to remember facts. They are there at the fingertips of every fourteen year old. The skills that our children need are those of data sorting and evaluation. In this regard, subjects like history take on huge significance, as they teach children to compare, contrast and evaluate pieces of information and to come up with reliable conclusions. So what does Gove do to the history curriculum? He turns it back into a list of British kings and queens and dates to be learnt, because "it never did him any harm". The bloke is a fucking retard.

I couldn't agree more with you, Imperator. I honestly think we're still just starting out on a digital revolution that will make the Enlightenment look like a power cut
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 06:26:05 pm by The_Dark_Passenger »
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2013, 02:55:44 pm »
Empirically speaking, isn't that the fundamental issue to hand? The belief that memory is the bedrock of intellect? So the more quality data you feed into the little darlings the more productive they'll be in the capitalistic society in which we live. The main problem with the Tories is their retrospective view of the world: no fucking prescience.[/b]

They cut that and all.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2013, 05:15:17 pm »
Hmmm...

I'm not utterly in agreement.

Now, in history, it doesn't really matter what date the battle of Hastings happened and the reasons for it happening are far more important.

However, a knowledge of the sequence of events is very important to fully evaluate them.

Ok, you can google them, but to evaluate them effectively you need to know them.

Evaluation skills are important, but sometimes, kids can't evaluate because they don't know the key facts.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2013, 09:40:48 pm »
The thing you have to think about is yes they can google the facts but can they then put them in the context needed, as Tepid says they can check 1066 but can they then understand why it happened and what William needed to do straight afterwards to strengthen his position. Google will often tell you when but not so much why in my opinion.

 We tend to encourage a lot of group work and discussion within lessons, Gove would have them reading text books and being tested on just that.

As for Gove being an imbecile that is a wicked slur on all the imbeciles'
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2013, 09:41:23 pm »
The bloke is a fucking retard.

I take great offence to the language. To me retard is about as acceptable as using faggot. And I greatly resent the likening of Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove to someone with learning difficulties. Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove's sociopathic traits are not as the result of mental impairment. He is just a fucking c*nt.

Offline ۩ Imperator ۩

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #74 on: April 20, 2013, 11:49:27 pm »
I take great offence to the language.

Then you don't have much awareness of the etymology and the nuance of the word. It is the ideal choice of vocabulary to describe a man whose ideas are a generation behind. There was no offence whatsoever in what I wrote, unless, of course, you are Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove.

Edit: I might add that retard is not a term I would use to describe someone with learning difficulties. Similarly, I would use the term faggot, but only to refer to a dish of ground meat and offal.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 11:59:43 pm by ۩ Imperator ۩ »
Quote
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Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2013, 11:57:43 pm »
This will not happen.

Exams are used to measure school performance almost more than that of the kids sitting them.

This is the reason why your idea (which is excellent) will not be accepted.  Politics.

what a horrible world we live in ey

fucking capitalism
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #76 on: April 21, 2013, 10:54:49 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/zDZFcDGpL4U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/zDZFcDGpL4U</a>

Always thought there was some interesting ideas in that vid

That was quite simply outstanding! I could have listened to him for hours. Brilliant.
The sky does not know of east or of west;
it is in the minds of men where such distinctions are made, and then they believe them to be true.

Offline Red Raw

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #77 on: April 21, 2013, 11:37:34 am »



For a more informed debate see http://www.goveversusreality.com/
For a less informed debate see http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michael-Gove-is-a-Complete-and-Utter-Tosser-Faced-Arse-Wipe/335814953186516?ref=stream

Thinks he's Thatcher, wants the teachers to be his miners.

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #78 on: April 21, 2013, 11:43:25 am »
That was quite simply outstanding! I could have listened to him for hours. Brilliant.

He has two videos on TED that are well worth watching: http://www.ted.com/speakers/sir_ken_robinson.html 
Talks a lot of sense.

Scouser too :)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 11:45:31 am by Slick_Beef »

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #79 on: April 21, 2013, 12:30:14 pm »
He has two videos on TED that are well worth watching: http://www.ted.com/speakers/sir_ken_robinson.html 
Talks a lot of sense.

Scouser too :)

Is right, nice one for that
The sky does not know of east or of west;
it is in the minds of men where such distinctions are made, and then they believe them to be true.