Author Topic: Defending your home from burglars (Read 22612 times)

ollyfrom.tv · « **on:** June 29, 2011, 06:03:32 pm »

It will soon be legal to defend your property any way you see fit if you catch a burglar in your house, under new laws being brought in by the government. This includes stabbing the intruder.
About time the public were given rights to defend their homes from these horrible robbing twats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587

Lord Roger Hunt · « **Reply #1 on:** June 29, 2011, 06:08:19 pm »

I don't think you can attack them if they're in the process of fleeing your premises...e.g. pepper their back with shotgun pellet or knock them over, then give the scallies a good kicking 'to teacher them a lesson' and so on....

El Campeador · « **Reply #2 on:** June 29, 2011, 06:27:29 pm »

Good. I'd gladly cut the bollox off the kids who robbed me (no stun, proper halal style) and make bollock stew.

scatman · « **Reply #3 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:03:27 pm »

good news, it's a fucked up situation where you can't retaliate in your own home against someone who is already breaking the law..long overfuckingdue.

BIGdavalad · « **Reply #4 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:07:19 pm »

Quote

I don't think you can attack them if they're in the process of fleeing your premises

You can drag them back in and beat fuck out of them in the house though.

scouser4eva · « **Reply #5 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:07:53 pm »

So you could kill some one, drag them in your house wack a mask on them and smash your back window then say they robed your house ? decent.

Chakan · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:08:06 pm »

Quote from: BIGdavalad on June 29, 2011, 07:07:19 pm

You can drag them back in and beat fuck out of them in the house though.

Grappling hooks all around then!

El Campeador · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:18:13 pm »

Quote from: BIGdavalad on June 29, 2011, 07:07:19 pm

You can drag them back in and beat fuck out of them in the house though.

I LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE

♠Dirty Harry♠ · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:20:54 pm »

Quote from: BIGdavalad on June 29, 2011, 07:07:19 pm

You can drag them back in and beat fuck out of them in the house though.

Stops the fatties raiding the biscuits and Intruders raiding the house

Something Else · « **Reply #9 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:25:23 pm »

But then if the house owner attacks the burgler to kill and the burgler kills the house owner, then he is just done for burglary as the rest was self defence? thats if caught

redpirate · « **Reply #10 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:38:55 pm »

Die burglar die...

♠Dirty Harry♠ · « **Reply #11 on:** June 29, 2011, 07:47:03 pm »

Some good tips here for securing your home and deterring burglars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1nzx4W4CZw&feature=related

Slick_Beef · « **Reply #12 on:** June 29, 2011, 09:56:44 pm »

Quote from: ollyfrom.tv on June 29, 2011, 06:03:32 pm

It will soon be legal to defend your property any way you see fit if you catch a burglar in your house, under new laws being brought in by the government. This includes stabbing the intruder.
About time the public were given rights to defend their homes from these horrible robbing twats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587

You're already allowed to protect yourself, and that includes cases where the burglar is killed as a result. You're just not allowed to murder someone by shooting them in the back as they run away like Tony cunting Martin did*.

Labour already clarified this years ago - (source - the independent)

WHAT CAN YOU DO?

What is reasonable force?

"What you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment ... This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

"As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence."

Do I have to wait to be attacked?

"No, not if you are in your home and in fear for yourself or others."

What if the intruder dies?

"If you have acted in reasonable self-defence, as described above, and the intruder dies you will still have acted lawfully."

Instances in which you could be prosecuted

1. "Having knocked someone unconscious, you then decided to further hurt or kill them to punish them."**

2. "You knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or kill them rather than involve the police."

What if I chase them as they run off?

"You are still allowed to use reasonable force to recover your property and make a citizen's arrest ... A rugby tackle or a single blow would probably be reasonable. Acting out of malice and revenge with the intent of inflicting punishment through injury or death would not."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/homeowners-can-kill-burglars-in-selfdefence-government-says-483154.html

Nothing is changing. This is the tories trying to score some easy points in the eyes of your average daily mail reader.

* yes, I know it was eventually reduced to manslaughter on appeal after they decided he was off his fucking rocker

**bad news for Kevin McAllister...

Kopite B205 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:08:24 pm »

I keep a 5 Iron under my bed. If anyone tries to rob me again I will not hesitate to smash the little smack rat over the the head with it.

CHOPPER · « **Reply #14 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:14:00 pm »

Quote from: Kopite B205 on June 29, 2011, 10:08:24 pm

I keep a 5 Iron under my bed. If anyone tries to rob me again I will not hesitate to smash the little smack rat over the the head with it.

You're too nice. I have a foot and half long length of 4 core 16mm SWA cable with 4, 4 inch nails sitting at 90 degrees to one another sticking out of the top, with self amalgamating tape wound round the base that makes a fine handle; to execute any mother fucker who enters my castle.

You have been warned man with a swag bag.

caspertheghost · « **Reply #15 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:46:51 pm »

the Birdman of Barlinnie had the right idea

Andy @ Allerton! · « **Reply #16 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:58:21 pm »

Quote from: ollyfrom.tv on June 29, 2011, 06:03:32 pm

It will soon be legal to defend your property any way you see fit if you catch a burglar in your house, under new laws being brought in by the government. This includes stabbing the intruder.
About time the public were given rights to defend their homes from these horrible robbing twats.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587

That's nice! High Five!

Red_Mist · « **Reply #17 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:01:50 pm »

Quote from: CHOPPER on June 29, 2011, 10:14:00 pm

I have a foot and half long length of 4 core 16mm SWA cable with 4, 4 inch nails sitting at 90 degrees to one another sticking out of the top, with self amalgamating tape wound round the base that makes a fine handle

Hmmm...

*adds above items to shopping list*

♠Dirty Harry♠ · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:30:56 pm »

I have a bottle of right guard and a lighter.

jaffod · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:35:23 pm »

I keep a truncheon under my bed, don't know what I'd use if I was being burgled though.

Lord Roger Hunt · « **Reply #20 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:37:09 pm »

Quote from: CHOPPER on June 29, 2011, 10:14:00 pm

You're too nice. I have a foot and half long length of 4 core 16mm SWA cable with 4, 4 inch nails sitting at 90 degrees to one another sticking out of the top, with self amalgamating tape wound round the base that makes a fine handle; to execute any mother fucker who enters my castle.

You have been warned man with a swag bag.

The prosecution would have to prove 'malice aforethought' so you'd be in the clear there, no worries......

The Gulleysucker · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:37:45 pm »

Quote from: jaffod on June 29, 2011, 11:35:23 pm

I keep a truncheon under my bed, don't know what I'd use if I was being burgled though.

Perhaps the spanking paddle you keep next to it?

rednich85 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:38:14 pm »

If I ever caught some c*nt in my house, I'd tie the c*nt up and waterboard him.

jambutty · « **Reply #23 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:53:52 pm »

A big fuck off dog will do the trick.

Or a little one with a big bark.

Veinticinco de Mayo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:06:50 am »

Thanks to Slick_Beef for a moment of sanity.

Sudden Death Draft Loser · « **Reply #25 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:08:02 am »

Quote from: jambutty on June 29, 2011, 11:53:52 pm

A big fuck off dog will do the trick.

Or a little one with a big bark.

By far the best solution for the paranoid or Daily Mail readers

Gojedo · « **Reply #26 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:08:23 am »

Quote from: jambutty on June 29, 2011, 11:53:52 pm

A big fuck off dog will do the trick.

One of the best deterrents you can have. From what I can gather having firearms in your house just makes you more of a target when no one is home. Still, as they say; better to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.

Anywhichwayicant · « **Reply #27 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:10:25 am »

Do these new laws also allow us defend ourselves from chips?

Sammy5IsAlive · « **Reply #28 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:10:36 am »

Quote from: Slick_Beef on June 29, 2011, 09:56:44 pm

You're already allowed to protect yourself, and that includes cases where the burglar is killed as a result. You're just not allowed to murder someone by shooting them in the back as they run away like Tony cunting Martin did*.

Labour already clarified this years ago - (source - the independent)

WHAT CAN YOU DO?

What is reasonable force?

"What you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment ... This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon.

"As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence."

Do I have to wait to be attacked?

"No, not if you are in your home and in fear for yourself or others."

What if the intruder dies?

"If you have acted in reasonable self-defence, as described above, and the intruder dies you will still have acted lawfully."

Instances in which you could be prosecuted

1. "Having knocked someone unconscious, you then decided to further hurt or kill them to punish them."**

2. "You knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or kill them rather than involve the police."

What if I chase them as they run off?

"You are still allowed to use reasonable force to recover your property and make a citizen's arrest ... A rugby tackle or a single blow would probably be reasonable. Acting out of malice and revenge with the intent of inflicting punishment through injury or death would not."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/homeowners-can-kill-burglars-in-selfdefence-government-says-483154.html

Nothing is changing. This is the tories trying to score some easy points in the eyes of your average daily mail reader.

* yes, I know it was eventually reduced to manslaughter on appeal after they decided he was off his fucking rocker

**bad news for Kevin McAllister...

My reading of the media coverage of the proposals (ie without having seen the draft legislation) is that this would technically be an extension. The current law gives a defence of self defence of the person - ie if you feel you are personally threatened and use reasonable force you have a defence, even if the burgler dies.

These proposals appear to be going further in that they would be giving people a defence where they are defending their property. So it would cover a situation where you came across a burgler who was in your home but had their back to you and were unaware of your presence you could take them out.

Practically, I think I would agree with you that it is not a massive change. Given the fairly generous drafting of the self defence provisions at the moment, the presumption of innocence and the high burden of proof needed to rebut that presumption, I would imagine that you really have to start going to town on the burglar to risk prosecution (or, as was the case with Tony Martin, shoot them in the back as they tried to flee).

One interesting point is that the quotes from Clarke's speech appear to be inconsistent:

"We will make it quite clear you can hit the burglar with the poker if he's in the house and you have a perfect defence when you do so." suggests to me a move away from the concept of 'reasonable force' - from that it would appear that a 16st rugby player could smash a 14 year old girl over the head with a baseball bat and claim a 'perfect defence'

"We all know what we mean when we say a person has an absolute right to defend themselves and their home and [with? BBC typo?] reasonable force." - suggests that reasonable force will still be a consideration.

Oscarmac · « **Reply #29 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:13:36 am »

as long as you hide the body properly, why involve the law?

♠Dirty Harry♠ · « **Reply #30 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:43:03 am »

Quote from: Veinticinco de Mayo on June 30, 2011, 12:06:50 am

Thanks to Slick_Beef for a moment of sanity.

Do I at least get a bonus point for non-contact violence?

Graham Smith · « **Reply #31 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:12:37 am »

There's a bit of knee jerk here about this issue (It is RAWK after all).

However, the law doesn't need changing it already works if you're using reasonable force.

By the way, if it is extended to this wild west shoot out idea hasn't anyone thought of the burglars? They're not going to sit there saying in a Dig Dastardly way "Drat, and double drat" - NO, we'll get "Oh, the law has changed, I'm off to rob. I better take a gun/knife/2 Chopper "Persuaders" to protect MYSELF from the owner as I'm fair game in there" - result WWF/UCF every Friday night with burglars and owners tooling themselves up to the eyeballs.

Result, more murders and serious injuries.

More. Tory. Pandering.

armchair-fan · « **Reply #32 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:34:18 pm »

When I catch them in my house, I'll sit them down, chat about their difficult childhoods and how they feel alienated by society, if applicable I'll try to discuss their substance abuse issues and look into enrolling them on any suitable relationship management courses in the area

Corkboy · « **Reply #33 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:45:52 pm »

I have a dog but unfortunately it's a Lab. Found this quote about them recently...

"Labradors are lousy watchdogs. They usually bark when there is a stranger about, but it is an expression of unmitigated joy at the chance to meet somebody new, not a warning.”

helmboy_nige · « **Reply #34 on:** June 30, 2011, 01:32:32 pm »

Quote from: corkboy on June 30, 2011, 12:45:52 pm

I have a dog but unfortunately it's a Lab. Found this quote about them recently...

"Labradors are lousy watchdogs. They usually bark when there is a stranger about, but it is an expression of unmitigated joy at the chance to meet somebody new, not a warning.”

So true... but the bark is normally enough to deter a burglar.

As a couple have said, not sure these extensions are needed to the existing legislation. You are already allowed to tackle an intruder and won't be prosecuted as long as you use "reasonable" force.

Finn Solomon · « **Reply #35 on:** June 30, 2011, 01:32:44 pm »

I have an axe bought for the zombie apocalypse, reckon it would do for a burglar.

Corkboy · « **Reply #36 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:05:26 pm »

Quote from: Finn Solomon on June 30, 2011, 01:32:44 pm

I have an axe bought for the zombie apocalypse, reckon it would do for a burglar.

Don't be silly Finn. You live in Singapore, you don't have burglars. Zombies, on the other hand....

Finn Solomon · « **Reply #37 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:08:06 pm »

Quote from: corkboy on June 30, 2011, 02:05:26 pm

Don't be silly Finn. You live in Singapore, you don't have burglars. Zombies, on the other hand....

You see them walking down every street in suits and ties.

Veinticinco de Mayo · « **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:29:16 pm »

Quote from: Finn Solomon on June 30, 2011, 02:08:06 pm

You see them walking down every street in suits and ties.

What? Not the traditional mask, striped shirt and big bag marked swag? Strange country in which you live mate

♠Dirty Harry♠ · « **Reply #39 on:** June 30, 2011, 04:35:34 pm »

Excuse me sir, where's the nearest bank?