Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 265111 times)

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1040 on: January 14, 2011, 04:38:12 pm »
Selling him shouldn't even be up for debate. He's outshone a lot of our so called superstars this term, and for most of the last one too. He's still very young and he is obviously showing good signs of improvement. People are moaning about why we shouldn't have Lucas in the first team need to look at our options, and then look at who exited through the door in the last couple of seasons and realise that getting rid of quality is one of the very reasons why we're now in a relegation battle at the moment. Lucas has been needed and he has answered the call admirably. Deserves the shirt as much as anyone in that team at the moment.

Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1041 on: January 14, 2011, 04:47:22 pm »
Exactly.

No, not exactly. Not much point in writing something if it doesn't communicate to the other person.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1042 on: January 14, 2011, 05:01:08 pm »
No, not exactly. Not much point in writing something if it doesn't communicate to the other person.

Try looking at what the midfield does, and not restrict yourself to filling pre-defined roles and positions. Think in terms of the whole. There's an article in the Damien Comolli thread that looks at the squad in detail, looking at individual strengths and weaknesses in terms of the whole. Curiously enough, the author identifies the same short term remedy as I've done elsewhere.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1043 on: January 14, 2011, 05:09:32 pm »
Here is a video of Lucas against Man U.  remember we only had 10 men for much of the match.  As far as I can see, most of the criticisms levelled in this thread are dispelled.  It shows a composed, talented passer and tackler, working hard for the team. 

Youtube may take it off as they may see it as EPL footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huo-7k5uWUo
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1044 on: January 14, 2011, 05:10:06 pm »
Why should we keep Lucas? Because he's fucking boss. End of.

Oh, and he'll be one of the top midfielders in football by the next world cup.

My sentiments entirely!
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline lfc_fan2005

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1045 on: January 14, 2011, 05:10:54 pm »
Has his son been born yet?

Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1046 on: January 14, 2011, 05:15:18 pm »
Here is a video of Lucas against Man U.  remember we only had 10 men for much of the match.  As far as I can see, most of the criticisms levelled in this thread are dispelled.  It shows a composed, talented passer and tackler, working hard for the team. 

Youtube may take it off as they may see it as EPL footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Huo-7k5uWUo

Can honestly say that video doesn't speak volumes for him.

Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1047 on: January 14, 2011, 05:22:49 pm »
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


Henderson won't make it here. Sorry but he won't and won't

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1048 on: January 14, 2011, 06:06:51 pm »
Lucas is a DM who doesn't defend. He runs around aimlessly, receiving the ball and passing to whoever the nearest unmarked player happens to be. Total waste of space. Need a real midfielder in there who can read the game. Might as well just play with two attacking CMs if you're gonna have 1 DM in there who offers nothing defensively or offensively.

Offline barneyk100

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1049 on: January 14, 2011, 06:21:16 pm »
Lucas is a DM who doesn't defend. He runs around aimlessly, receiving the ball and passing to whoever the nearest unmarked player happens to be. Total waste of space. Need a real midfielder in there who can read the game. Might as well just play with two attacking CMs if you're gonna have 1 DM in there who offers nothing defensively or offensively.

Opinions are like arseholes. Yours is plain wrong.

Offline simesy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1050 on: January 14, 2011, 06:22:09 pm »
Lucas is a DM who doesn't defend. He runs around aimlessly, receiving the ball and passing to whoever the nearest unmarked player happens to be. Total waste of space. Need a real midfielder in there who can read the game. Might as well just play with two attacking CMs if you're gonna have 1 DM in there who offers nothing defensively or offensively.
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Offline martinsquirtle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1051 on: January 14, 2011, 06:25:26 pm »
Lucas is a DM who doesn't defend. He runs around aimlessly, receiving the ball and passing to whoever the nearest unmarked player happens to be. Total waste of space. Need a real midfielder in there who can read the game. Might as well just play with two attacking CMs if you're gonna have 1 DM in there who offers nothing defensively or offensively.

haha!

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1052 on: January 14, 2011, 06:27:13 pm »
Disagree?

Offline Cadno

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1053 on: January 14, 2011, 06:30:32 pm »
Lucas is a DM who doesn't defend. He runs around aimlessly, receiving the ball and passing to whoever the nearest unmarked player happens to be. Total waste of space. Need a real midfielder in there who can read the game. Might as well just play with two attacking CMs if you're gonna have 1 DM in there who offers nothing defensively or offensively.
Lol.  2 posts and this gem is one of them.  Let me guess the 3rd post will have sideways and backwards, gives away silly fouls and various other regurgitated myths? 
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Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1054 on: January 14, 2011, 06:32:20 pm »
So go ahead and tell us why you think he's a good player?

Offline Cadno

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1055 on: January 14, 2011, 06:37:05 pm »
So go ahead and tell us why you think he's a good player?
Why don't you just read the thread?  The nonsense you posted has been addressed plenty
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Offline simesy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1056 on: January 14, 2011, 06:41:45 pm »
Even if you dont rate lucas you must be blind if you cannot see he's been our best player this season.
When you're in the penalty area & dont know what to do with the ball, stick it in the net & we'll discuss the options later"  Bob Paisley

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1057 on: January 14, 2011, 06:44:55 pm »
The view I expressed is common among Liverpool fans, I'm afraid. Would be amazed if it is not a common view on this forum (though I know that individual forums sometimes have their own general slant on things which differ from the rest of the world). I've had a quick glance through this thread and found some Lucas lovers and some Lucas haters. The Lucas haters seem to get jumped on pretty quickly, by people saying "Your opinion is shite" without actually explaining why Lucas is a good player or even trying to offer a counter-argument. I'm guessing that's why most fans haven't bothered to give their views on Lucas in this thread - I suppose it's not worth the hassle created by the "Lucas flamers".

Offline therockbox

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1058 on: January 14, 2011, 06:45:49 pm »

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1059 on: January 14, 2011, 06:47:59 pm »
Even if you dont rate lucas you must be blind if you cannot see he's been our best player this season.

He's been mediocre most of the season. He performs mediocre when the team's playing good, he performs mediocre when the team's playing bad. His form never changes because he plays such a simple game.

Steven Gerrard has been terrible by his standards but has still played better than Lucas this season.

Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1060 on: January 14, 2011, 06:49:57 pm »
He's been mediocre most of the season. He performs mediocre when the team's playing good, he performs mediocre when the team's playing bad. His form never changes because he plays such a simple game.

Steven Gerrard has been terrible by his standards but has still played better than Lucas this season.

Gotta agree with the man there.

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1061 on: January 14, 2011, 06:50:43 pm »
Wrong already.

Benitez viewed him as a DM. What, so he's a CM? In that case, he's a CM who has scored 1 goal and probably a handful of assists in 94 league games.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1062 on: January 14, 2011, 06:51:07 pm »
Well agreeing with him makes you look pretty dense mate. Brave move!

Offline Cadno

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1063 on: January 14, 2011, 06:54:05 pm »
The view I expressed is common among Liverpool fans, I'm afraid. Would be amazed if it is not a common view on this forum (though I know that individual forums sometimes have their own general slant on things which differ from the rest of the world). I've had a quick glance through this thread and found some Lucas lovers and some Lucas haters. The Lucas haters seem to get jumped on pretty quickly, by people saying "Your opinion is shite" without actually explaining why Lucas is a good player or even trying to offer a counter-argument. I'm guessing that's why most fans haven't bothered to give their views on Lucas in this thread - I suppose it's not worth the hassle created by the "Lucas flamers".
Well that answers my question of whether you were clueless or just fishing.  Good luck to you but please get some original bait.
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Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1064 on: January 14, 2011, 06:57:02 pm »
Fishing for what? Morons? No.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1065 on: January 14, 2011, 07:01:31 pm »
Laergoth you have it entirely ass backwards. On every one of the hundred or so Lucas threads there have been on here its the ones who don't rate Lucas who never, ever explain why. Just like you haven't. Stuff like 'average' and 'not good enough' is not exactly intelligent argument.
I have seen one or two good posts from people explaining why they don't rate Lucas. And about 100,000 from people just slating him because they don't understand modern football.

By the way you might want to have a look at the fact that he starts for Brazil.

Offline martinsquirtle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1066 on: January 14, 2011, 07:05:03 pm »
So go ahead and tell us why you think he's a good player?

I remember that game against Chelsea.  He just ran around aimlessly didn't he. That match epitomised his inability to tackle, pass, his poor positioning and his sheer laziness... 

Offline Smashedin

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1067 on: January 14, 2011, 07:10:15 pm »
Well agreeing with him makes you look pretty dense mate. Brave move!

Labeled dense on an internet forum, what a nightmare. The guy is right, Lucas just doesn't offer much in terms of ball delivery, and the amount of players who run freely through our defence is ridiculous, so which part is he responsible for?

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1068 on: January 14, 2011, 07:14:54 pm »
Laergoth you have it entirely ass backwards. On every one of the hundred or so Lucas threads there have been on here its the ones who don't rate Lucas who never, ever explain why. Just like you haven't. Stuff like 'average' and 'not good enough' is not exactly intelligent argument.
I have seen one or two good posts from people explaining why they don't rate Lucas. And about 100,000 from people just slating him because they don't understand modern football.

I've told you exactly why I don't rate Lucas. You must be blind if you can't see that.

Quote
Lucas is a DM who doesn't defend. He runs around aimlessly, receiving the ball and passing to whoever the nearest unmarked player happens to be. Total waste of space. Need a real midfielder in there who can read the game. Might as well just play with two attacking CMs if you're gonna have 1 DM in there who offers nothing defensively or offensively.

Even if you don't agree with it... To say that I have just slated Lucas without giving any sort of explanation is codswallop. I haven't come in and just said "Lucas is shit" - I've given a summary of why I think he's shit. Whereas, posts like "Haha!", or making bizarre accusations against me of "fishing". or sarcastic posts which reference 1 half-decent game he had, offer absolutely no explanation whatsoever and are 100% unlikely to convince me that Lucas is any better than I think he is.

So, seems you have it "ass backwards" in fact.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 07:16:35 pm by Laergoth »

Offline thegoodfella

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1069 on: January 14, 2011, 07:23:40 pm »
I've told you exactly why I don't rate Lucas. You must be blind if you can't see that.

Good to know you have made up your mind, now stick to your opinion and stop posting in this thread.

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1070 on: January 14, 2011, 07:24:26 pm »
By the way you might want to have a look at the fact that he starts for Brazil.

Absolute nonsense. He's made 7 competitive appearances for Brazil and 5 of those were in the 2008 Olympics.

Plus, this is not a classic, brilliant Brazil team. This is a Brazil team that beat North Korea 2-1 in the World Cup just gone, and got knocked out in the Quarter-Finals. And he still isn't getting in.

Wrong and wrong. What a joker you are.

Online smicer07

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1071 on: January 14, 2011, 07:25:51 pm »
Absolute nonsense. He's made 7 competitive appearances for Brazil and 5 of those were in the 2008 Olympics.

Plus, this is not a classic, brilliant Brazil team. This is a Brazil team that beat North Korea 2-1 in the World Cup just gone, and got knocked out in the Quarter-Finals. And he still isn't getting in.

Wrong and wrong. What a joker you are.

So you don't have to be a good player to get in the Brazil side then?

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1072 on: January 14, 2011, 07:26:45 pm »
Ah I see. 'Runs around aimlessly' qualifies as analysis these days. My bad. Although funnily enough if you had said that about Gerrard when selected in CM I would probably have agreed. Funny old game. 

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1073 on: January 14, 2011, 07:27:55 pm »
And here, by the way, are the two non-Olympic, competitive Brazil games he's played in, both 2010 WC qualifiers:

0-0 against Venezuela.
0-0 against Bolivia.

;D

Offline Julio

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1074 on: January 14, 2011, 07:29:16 pm »
I wouldn't dignify Laergoth with a response, Fifth. He's made his mind up, and he's not for turning. Here's why:

Lucas will always have his detractors.

It's a question of stubbornness on the part of those who gloried in the fact that he was having a rough time of it. The "I made my mind up and that's the end of it" brigade who'd rather a Liverpool player did badly so their own opinions could be respected, rather than actually seeing one of their own do the business, and the team get better in the process.

I have a few mates like that. They decided he was shite at the beginning (when anyone could see during that Derby that he had bags of potential), mocked those who rated him and couldn't wait until he was sold to some Championship team. Now, they're like all the other detractors. Nervously biting their nails watching him, willing him, to fail - and cursing silently at every pinpoint pass, every well-timed tackle and every intelligent run. If there's one mistake, he's shite again.

They're the same people who see the likes of Gerrard having the season he's having, refuse to criticise him for his shocking play and then, when he makes an aggressive sliding tackle or something, pipe up with the "he's the best player on our team by miles, get him into centre mid" bollocks propagated by sky.

Lucas doesn't score bags of goals and he isn't a lunatic in the Mascherano mould. Maybe that's why he's despised by some clowns. But he's the future, and it's a bright one. Keep it going Lucas.


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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1075 on: January 14, 2011, 07:29:53 pm »
Yorkys law in full effect  again I see.

Offline Laergoth

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1076 on: January 14, 2011, 07:29:53 pm »
So you don't have to be a good player to get in the Brazil side then?

Main point is that he got his facts wrong, which suggests to me he is a fool who makes up facts without checking them. Lucas is not a starter for Brazil.

Second point is that this is a pretty mediocre Brazil team, and he still isn't getting in.

Offline Julio

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1077 on: January 14, 2011, 07:29:58 pm »
Player of the season
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Offline Borninbethlehem

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1078 on: January 14, 2011, 07:30:39 pm »
My opinion on Lucas is that he is a good, steady player. I'm going to state what I believe are the positives and negatives of Lucas.

Positives: Neat passes (forwards, backwards and sideways) with a high percentage completion rate.  He's not the best tackler, but at least he gets stuck in now. He is a hard worker and puts his all into every game. He has a strong mentality, and has improved as a player despite heavy criticism.

Negatives: He is poor in the final third, which is justified by his lack of goals and assists. His assists for a central midfielder is way below average. He doesn't really thrive in the final third. IF he contributed to our attack, he would get alot more praise, but because he doesn't, he is seen as a bit of a 'drifter' by many.

Now, how good is Lucas? Would he be part of a team aspiring for top 4 or a title? Would the likes of Barcelona, Madrid, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea want Lucas in their team? In my opinion, the answer is no. I think Lucas is a decent little player, BUT,  if we are aspiring in the future to be challenging for the title, Lucas should be a substitute at most.

As for people stating he is average? Well, they may have a point. He is not the greatest defensively, and is actually below average going forward. His strong points are picking up the ball, making a neat pass and keeping the ball moving in the centre of the park. He is above average in that aspect, but below average in others, which kind of evens him out to being, well, average.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #1079 on: January 14, 2011, 07:31:11 pm »
Lucas starts for Brazil.