Topic: Round table: Firmino the next piece in the puzzle

[Michel]

At Hoffenheim he was playing mostly behind the striker or as a second striker.A few times as left winger.
He is being played blatantly out of position.

[The G in Gerrard]

Bit worried about him. Hopefully we see more flashes of talent in the upcoming home games.

Why would you be worried? Is he a wide player?

[killer-heels]

Why would you be worried? Is he a wide player?

He is struggling with the pace of the game as well. Its fair enough being out wide but losing the ball and passing are the basics.

[The G in Gerrard]

He is struggling with the pace of the game as well. Its fair enough being out wide but losing the ball and passing are the basics.

I'll wait til he's played centrally and see how he gets on

[killer-heels]

I'll wait til he's played centrally and see how he gets on

Oh yeah its not pitchforks as yet. I am a bit worried but he is still a vital part of all this.

[sattapaartridge]

If he plays centrally that is. Could be a long wait. Brendan likes 3 up top. Dunno what happened to the side and style which almost won the league with 2 up top.

[abhred]

Same glimpses of talent in the first few games, but I agree that he looks off space. He was guilt of giving away the ball on numerous occasions. He also seems much slower than I had originally thought. Anyone who seen him at Hoffenheim can talk about his pace?

[Schmidt]

He looked good when we pressed high up the pitch and broke forward in numbers, frequently ghosting in behind, but like all of our attackers he struggled when we were sat deep and showing zero ambition. With the current tactics he'll only look good if he can conjure something from nothing on a regular basis, same goes for all of our players really.

[abhred]

How do we fit in Firmino, Coutinho, Benteke and Sturiddge in the same team, all of whom seem to prefer to play centrally. Then you consider that it seems Henderson and Milner have to play. Does a Brazilian box midfield seem the best alternative? Will Rodgers move away from the 4-3-3?

[J-Mc-]

How do we fit in Firmino, Coutinho, Benteke and Sturiddge in the same team, all of whom seem to prefer to play centrally. Then you consider that it seems Henderson and Milner have to play. Does a Brazilian box midfield seem the best alternative? Will Rodgers move away from the 4-3-3?

We'd have to revert to a sort of 442 with Coutinho and Firmino pushed slightly wide but given freedom to cut inside IMO.

Mignolet

Clyne                Gomez                  Sahko                 Moreno

Henderson               Milner

Firmino                                          Coutinho

Benteke                  Sturridge

Not much cover for the defence though if one of Henderson/Milner break.

[hollger]

I'm not worried about him in the slightest, I think he'll do fine. My problem is not with him, it's how he's being used. The "Yay! He made the most interceptions or recovery tackles!" should only be a bonus with him for me, primarily it should be about how many chances he creates or how much he is contributing to the attack. At the moment, on the wing, he isn't being used effectively.

The runs he makes are very intelligent, he and Coutinho will hopefully link up brilliantly in time.

[abhred]

We'd have to revert to a sort of 442 with Coutinho and Firmino pushed slightly wide but given freedom to cut inside IMO.

Mignolet

Clyne                Gomez                  Sahko                 Moreno

Henderson               Milner

Firmino                                          Coutinho

Benteke                  Sturridge

Not much cover for the defence though if one of Henderson/Milner break.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that team. Henderson/Milner have enough energy to cover the center, Clyne and Moreno have enough of an engine to provide width and Gomez and Sakho give us enough recovery pace to help us press high up the pitch. Shame this will never happen.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

How do we fit in Firmino, Coutinho, Benteke and Sturiddge in the same team, all of whom seem to prefer to play centrally. Then you consider that it seems Henderson and Milner have to play. Does a Brazilian box midfield seem the best alternative? Will Rodgers move away from the 4-3-3?

[hollger]

Not much cover for the defence though if one of Henderson/Milner break.

Would love to see that team given a shot at some point this season!

[Clint Eastwood]

snip

I like that, you know. A City/Atleti style 4-4-2. I think we have the energy and the right kind of players to pull it off, one question for me is whether Henderson and Milner have the positional discipline to pull it off, but yeah it would be great to see that in action.

[Johnnyboy1973]

Highest number of tackles from an attacking midfielder?

Well, if it's good enough for Lallana.

[ReeNah]

Looks perfect

[pjshaun]

He is struggling with the pace of the game as well. Its fair enough being out wide but losing the ball and passing are the basics.

Ings looked like he never played in the premier league before. If you put players in a completely new position in which they have never played before, they will struggle.

I still can't understand why we bought him if wanted to play 4-3-3 with wide players.

[Mutton Geoff]

Firmino should be playing off Benteke either in hole or alongside, big man, speedy agile guy style and if he isnt playing Ings should be in that role playing either of those lads out wide is a total waste.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Firmino should be playing off Benteke either in hole or alongside, big man, speedy agile guy style and if he isnt playing Ings should be in that role playing either of those lads out wide is a total waste.

Agreed. That was what I imagined when we bought him - a return to the diamond, at least as the preferred formation. And when I saw the team sheet for Old Trafford, I thought, finally!

And then the match started and my jaw dropped.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Looks good to me. With Ings and Origi to snap into the striking roles when needed/tiredness/cups.

We've also got decent back-up for nearly every one of those players in the assigned role.

[Gegenpresser]

Oh FFS, just because the kid's foreign and hasn't hit form yet doesn't mean he's struggling with the pace of the league. If you transplanted Gisdol's Hoffenheim to England, they would be considered one of the most frenetic, attacking teams in the league, and they were playing against sides like Bayern, Klopp's Dortmund and Schmidt's Leverkusen (i.e., not exactly lethargic with the pressing).

What Firmino is struggling with is receiving the ball squeezed against the right flank with 8 opposition players and virtually zero support ahead of him. In other words, it's the general lethargy and incoherence of our build-up play. At Hoffenheim, he stayed forward in a counterattacking side that brought the ball to his feet quickly when there was 360 degrees of space to work with. Unless we do the same, he's going to have to add a whole new dimension to his game which will take time he's probably not going to be given in the current atmosphere.

[na fir dearg]

why are we paying 29m for a guy and playing him out of position??? just beggars belief

anyway, im not gone on him yet but as others have said ill reserve judgement until he plays where hes supposed to play

I still think he gets knocked off the ball a bit too easily, needs to be a bit tighter

[HighSix]

Oh FFS, just because the kid's foreign and hasn't hit form yet doesn't mean he's struggling with the pace of the league. If you transplanted Gisdol's Hoffenheim to England, they would be considered one of the most frenetic, attacking teams in the league, and they were playing against sides like Bayern, Klopp's Dortmund and Schmidt's Leverkusen (i.e., not exactly lethargic with the pressing).

I dont think its a myth though as frequently you hear new players in the Premier League speak about getting used to the pace or physicality.

If Milner is fit I feel he starts.

[lionel_messias]

We'd have to revert to a sort of 442 with Coutinho and Firmino pushed slightly wide but given freedom to cut inside IMO.

Mignolet

Clyne                Gomez                  Sahko                 Moreno

Henderson               Milner

Firmino                                          Coutinho

Benteke                  Sturridge

Not much cover for the defence though if one of Henderson/Milner break.

You know, I love this team. It may not click immediately but it has all the attributes to get us up the table. I wouldn't mind if it took a few game to bed in, it would be a balls on the table move by Rodgers, which would be 100% better than the current cautious approach which will only lead to his P45 in many people's view.

[wackojackouk]

I like the idea here although Gomez and Skrtel may need to swap some times and maybe even Moreno and Gomez. We need to remember he's only 18 still and to be honest I don't think Moreno is top notch at the moment but again he needs games and time.

I think Milner and/or Can will sit in midfield with Henderson at times.

We're also forgetting about Lallana as well and Ibe who I think can do a good job out wide with Clynne behind him

We actually have a lot of options just seem to be picking the wrong ones at the moment

If I was FSG I'd be trying to recoup some cash from Lovren in January.

[Adeemo]

why are we paying 29m for a guy and playing him out of position??? just beggars belief

Because it's what we do.

[pjshaun]

why are we paying 29m for a guy and playing him out of position??? just beggars belief

Because we have lost the plot.

[Red-Soldier]

why are we paying 29m for a guy and playing him out of position??? just beggars belief

It's what we do best 

Rogers will try to make a solid wing back out of him.

He#s been brought in to replace Markovic out there.

[Ashburton]

I'll wait til he's played centrally and see how he gets on

How often will he be put in the centre, though?  That will always be Coutinho's role.  He's going to be put on the wing, as will Borini, Ings, etc.  Benteke and Sturridge will be put up front.  Either he goes with 3-5-2 (wingbacks Moreno and Clyne, Coutinho in the hole), a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond (Coutinho in the hole), or a 4-5-1 (Coutinho in the CAM role). 

Putting Firmino in the middle shunts Coutinho on the wing, and why push out your best player to the wing just to see "if" Firmino can find some form. 

My personal position was he is a forward bought to play as a winger, a bit like an inverse Sturridge experiment.

[Simplexity]

Seems abit like the Brazilian Lallana so far, hopefully he improves.

[SerbianScouser]

People have studiously watched Hoffenheim last few years and they know exactly what his best position is and whether manager made a right decision. Sure.

It had nothing to do with us being depraved of the ball against the best passing team in their back yard.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

It had nothing to do with us being depraved of the ball against the best passing team in their back yard.

I think we were quite depraved in that match. Masochistic, almost.

[Red-Soldier]

I think we were quite depraved in that match. Masochistic, almost.

Looked like we were on our knees the whole match!!

[Red-Soldier]

The thread title should read 'Firmino: Our next wing back' 

[soxfan]

Ings looked like he never played in the premier league before. If you put players in a completely new position in which they have never played before, they will struggle.

I still can't understand why we bought him if wanted to play 4-3-3 with wide players.

It's a bit of a recent theme:

Can, a midfielder, playing right back.

Manquillo, a right back, not even played.

Sakho, a center back, on the left in a back 3.

20M Markovic, one of our more promising (and few) options out wide, on loan.

Gomez, a center back, playing left back.

Etc.

[lionel_messias]

It's a bit of a recent theme:

Can, a midfielder, playing right back.

Manquillo, a right back, not even played.

Sakho, a center back, on the left in a back 3.

20M Markovic, one of our more promising (and few) options out wide, on loan.

Gomez, a center back, playing left back.

Etc.

Sakho, not playing at all, other than with his newborn and changing nappies.

[Aceldama]

Dunno what happened to the side and style which almost won the league with 2 up top.

Sturridge got injured is what happened. Benteke-Sturridge is something I assume every Liverpool fan wants to see.

[The G in Gerrard]

Sturridge got injured is what happened. Benteke-Sturridge is something I assume every Liverpool fan wants to see.

He still has two strikers that are being used out wide

[HighSix]

It's a bit of a recent theme:

Can, a midfielder, playing right back.

Manquillo, a right back, not even played.

Sakho, a center back, on the left in a back 3.

20M Markovic, one of our more promising (and few) options out wide, on loan.

Gomez, a center back, playing left back.

Etc.

Markovic decision I don't get but Löw also plays Can at RB, Gomez has looked good LB & Manquillo is with Marseille now so not all crazy decisions.

With Firmino he seems to have played in different positions for Hoffenheim the last three seasons so not set in stone where to play.