Topic: Kenny (to) Rodgers: the Gambler

[Hinesy]

Scribes:

So in some ways, we've employed a manager who is about as modern as another BR, British Rail. He won't accept an invitation to be one of several interviewees; he has a long standing football philosophy developed in Europe and dare I say it, seems interested in pass and move...

1.Have FSG taken LSD and gone loopy or have they actually done something interesting and potentially forward thinking by looking backwards to a man who's his own man?

2.Do you think they will give him 3 years or expect him to get 4th place in a season or was that just bollocks from the people getting rid of Dalglish?

3.What are you looking forward to, and what are you concerned about with BR?

4.Is it a gamble or a shrewd investment.... Show us your crystal balls now and in years to come, we'll look back as say "Ah, they knew what they were on about" or, more likely "See, none of us ever know.."

[Finn Solomon]

Snappy title.

1. Two minds about this. First of all if you'd asked me who to appoint after Kenny left I'd say Rafa in a flash, and I'm sure a lot of people would have done the same. But at least Rafa can stop holding out hope and get a new job now.

But say Marty McFly went back in time and caused Rafa not to exist. In that light, the appointment of Mr Rodgers looks like a very interesting choice. He ticks all the boxes. For the cliches, he's young, fresh and hungry. On the technical side, he gets his teams playing attractive and effective football and is possibly the furthest you can get from a Hodgson-type manager. Media-wise, I haven't heard too much about him. He doesn't seem the type to run his mouth about other players or managers. He hasn't sucked up to Ferguson and his cronies either. In short, a quiet, dignified presence. But with a bit more bite than the 'nice-guy' Martinez.

I think FSG were in a quandary when they first bought the club. If they'd chucked out Hodgson straight on his arse, they would have been villified by the media and the Hodge's supporters among the fanbase. Later when Kenny stepped in, there was no way they could have said no. And if they'd given Kenny a caretaker role, they'd have gotten shit for it too. I think they were looking to transform the club from top to bottom while hoping that Kenny could deliver, and events eventuated in a way they weren't prepared for.

So they bit the bullet, and now we have a new man at the helm. But most importantly, it's their man. This is their first choice, their flag in the soil. It's encouraging that the man they're throwing their weight behind has many positive points in his favour.

2. Like has been said several times, Kenny wasn't sacked for not getting 4th. He was sacked because we finished in our worst league position for umpteen years, being closer to the relegation zone than the top places and finishing miles from 4th (or 3rd, if you want to bitch about the Chelsea factor. It's only one point after all).

So if Rodgers does manage to move us up the league he'll get more time, even if we miss out on CL football again. The key is whether we're improving as a team, and at least finish in a spot that suggests we can improve again next season, instead of regressing.

3. After reading all the articles about his tactical preferences I'm looking forward to a more continental style of football based around possession. And wingers. Be nice to have wingers again.

I'm having worries about his dealings in the transfer market though, does Rodgers keep an eye on the developing young players in South America, Africa, Asia, i.e. the markets we need to raid and stay under the radar if we want to compete with the big spenders? Fortunately FSG seems to have realised this, and the DOF position with the rumoured Van Gaal seems specifically set up to deal with it.

4. All things considered I'll go with shrewd move. It's a gamble, to be sure. But at this point appointing anyone is a gamble, even Rafa. I just want to know what Rodgers' official nickname will be. I'm going for Marlon Brando.

[Cassiel]

I don't think I've ever been as underwhelmed by the appointment of an LFC manager. Even less so than Hodgson. But that has nothing to do with Rodgers and his talents, and everything to do with just how much the events of the last two years have sapped my enthusiasm for all this. The killer was sacking Rafa, and dreaded summer of Purslow. Then the disastrous reign of King Hodge-Podge, and the brief fillip of FSG taking control and then bringing in Kenny. Then more gloom surrounding the Suarez affair and the realisation that Kenny wasn't going to work, and finally his sacking, which I don't think was handled badly at all, but was another pin in the balloon. I think the only way my waxing enthusiasm might have been re-ignited is if Rafa had been rehired to start what he finished before he was undermined. That's not to say rehiring would have been the right decision - the ones taken from the heart aren't necessarily the best - and it was clear to me from years of Fenway watching that they wouldn't turn to him anyway, even if he was the outstanding candidate and truly deserved another shot at the job. Then when it became clear to read on here the stuff about Martinez and Rodgers and just thinking: meh. There's a also a sense of deja vu: people advocating Rodgers, some the same who advocated Hodgson (before crawling off under a rock for a few months when it became clear he was a disaster) and so it's difficult to summon any enthusiasm. For me, at least. Though I do think he will benefit from the muted response to his appointment. The last thing we need is another saviour right now.

So, in answer to hinesy's questions:

1. No - it fits their plans. Anyone who looks at how they've operated with the Red Sox will have seen that Rodgers fits their blueprint. They may tinker with the system around him to satisfy his concerns but it will be much the same.

2. I think he'll get at least two seasons unless the first is an unmitigated disaster.

3. I'm looking forward to a season with far less media hullaballoo. I'm not concerned whether he's up to the job - that remains to be seen - but I'm concerned how he'll cope with the attention and increased pressure.

4. I think he'll prove to be a shrewd appointment, but will eventually fail to get us back to where we really want to be. When he leaves there will be the usual shooting match between those argue who needed more time and those who think he had ample etc and blah. I just hope that I'll be arsed enough to have a view.

Now, for some cricket...

Oh and great song in the title - this is my favourite version, both creepy and ineffably sad.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kNnrTNFWcsg?" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/kNnrTNFWcsg?</a>

[Vulmea]

I think the title says it all really its a gamble - foresight, hindsight wont matter - there are too many unknowns for anybody to claim they knew what would happen.

How does he handle pressure?
He has no experience of  managing a big club, big names,
No experience of europe, of handling a large squad, of juggling competitions and priorities
His premiership experience is 1 season, largely played in anonymity, with no pressure and no expectations.

How does he handle the media not the Swansea gazette but the world media, every day, when every decision is dissected, analysed, every decision has consequences good and bad and the way they are interpreted depends entirely on what sells papers

Ho does he handle LFC fans - is he a corporate bootlicker or his own man, will he stand with the fans or the board room or try and walk between both - will he say his only concern is on the pitch - will he concentrate on coaching and training his players - thats the model we are being asked to accept I think - I think that means it'll all come down to results - he'll live or die by them.

Dont get me wrong I think he ticks a lot of boxes, team over individual, work ethic, style, pass and move, possession, strangling teams, creating a team bigger than its parts, good motivator (yet to be tested against ego's), ambitious, drive etc

But another concern for me is loyalty and integrity - have these been tested - has he shown any - is he a Mourinho - who ups and offs every two years - does he want to manage in Spain - he seems particularly fond of their game.

I'll need to listen to him a few times and see his actions I think before I decide whether I trust him. If i can't he'll never get my 100% backing, If I can then anything is possible.

[royhendo]

1. I'm not sure how they arrived at Rodgers, but I was hoping they'd get him, so I'll go with 'interesting and forward thinking'. For me this'll get the whole thing ticking according to the McParland plan, albeit maybe with a tweak to Borrell and Segura's syllabus.

2. I hope it's just spin-based bollocks and that regardless of how we do this coming season, short of some kind of disaster, they let him work over the long-term. If they're patient, then they'll get the value that flows from that. If they're not... well, they'll end up buggering off because the club's value won't appreciate in line with their hopes.

3. I'm looking forward to lovely football - the good bits under Kenny's stewardship becoming more habitual and engrained. Two midfielders who 'know when to hold' (hoho), and know when to run (hoho). I think, given time, Kenny would have arrived there eventually too, but that's moot now. He's capable of implementing the plan Rafa put in place, and who knows - maybe even enhancing it. He does seem to have a great eye for a player, after all. Worries? They're all ownership-related. Will they be able to muster the kind of patience, communication and support Rodgers will need? They better had, or they'll be missing a massive opportunity.

4. I don't see it as a gamble at all, funnily enough. I just hope he gets the backing he needs to exert proper authority within the club - it'll take time to truly impose that and there are difficult decisions to be taken in the years to come, aren't there? I think the fans will take to him as he seems to have a couthie nature about him, and according to his players (Mr Dilkington knows one of his ex players btw) he's got the personal touch that makes them go that extra mile for him. It's gonna go well this, but they need to remember that it'll take time, particularly with competitors throwing money around like there's no tomorrow.

[SMD]

For me, you must split the decision into two:

1. Rodgers

He only recently came on my radar to be honest. I paid more attention to the players at Swansea because of Sousa/Martinez - it seemed like there was a clear plan at the club (hello) and they were targeting men to continue their blueprint rather than short term success. He seems like a man to me who knows what he wants and works to get it, rather than look to a specific target like league places (hello again). I don't know enough about his tactics and style to place any comment but I will say that the man needs the backing that Kenny didn't get - and I don't mean financially. A structure needs to be put into place at the club not only to get the best of the men on the training pitch but to make sure if changes need to be made, they can be done a lot more seamlessly than the past few years.

2. Fenway

The end rarely justifies the means. I am bewildered by the decision making process, by the real aims versus the stated ones and what Henry is expecting to happen. The treatment of Kenny will always leave a sour taste in my mouth but this has absolutely nothing to do with Rodgers. He's clearly a man with ambition and after turning down Chelsea it's obvious he sees something in the Liverpool job. Hopefully not as a stepping stone.
I hope that this works out. I advocated incremental adjustments with Kenny at the centre before, to take the attitude that you improve on your weakest aspects continuously to avoid jarring, sudden change. Evidently Henry's gone for the Year Zero approach Kristian discussed.

An evolution of our style would suit me, though what that means for certain players will be interesting.

[E2K]

I'm still a little hazy as to what the 'plan' is in terms of the club as a whole, and I still have huge concerns about that, but we're talking about Brendan Rodgers here, so:

1. I know very little about Rodgers beyond what I’ve been reading, so I can only go on appearances (and I’m talking strictly about the man here, not the structures and people around him, whatever they end up being).

He appears to be an ambitious man who lives, breathes and eats football to the point where he was travelling around Europe in his twenties studying the game while his wife was at home minding the child. That illustrates both a love of the game and a thirst for success that already reminds me of two men in the history of this club who have my limitless respect, one of whom once told a story about taking his wife to see Rochdale reserves on her birthday and the other who spent part of his honeymoon talking football with the innovator of computer analysis. He appears eager to learn yet at the same time has a singular vision on how the game should be played, and why. And that vision appears, on the surface at least, to be one geared both towards winning and also quality football. Meanwhile, I’d like to think that we, as Liverpool supporters, might identify with some of his philosophies on life, such as the following: “I used to help dad paint and decorate to earn pocket money. He installed in me the value of a hard day's work. He believes that leads to success in whatever you do. He's right. He'd work from dawn to dusk to ensure his young family had everything. I think you can see his philosophies in my team.”

So it’s certainly an interesting appointment, and potentially forward-thinking as well. Loopy? I don’t think so. I think it’s a calculated gamble on a man’s character and abilities, and leaving aside the risks associated with his appointment (and they are admittedly many), those characteristics and abilities are really very impressive…or so it would appear

2. Unless everything goes completely belly-up, I suspect that he’ll get 18 months to 2 years at the very least. I don’t think failure to get a top-4 finish in 2012/13 will necessarily see him sacked. As long as his team shows progress towards achieving that goal, he should be fine. As for the fans, if the team plays the kind of stuff that Swansea regularly did last season, it will be a real help in terms of filling some of the biggest shoes imaginable. Whether he enjoys success or not, however, is not solely dependent on his own talents but also on many factors outside of his control (e.g. the people appointed around him, transfer budgets, the support of his employers, etc). In that sense, we really are heading into the unknown.

3. Looking forward to: seeing his vision and tactical set-up implemented, seeing how he gets the best out of the players at his disposal and, hopefully, some effective, attacking football as well.

Concerned about: in terms of Rodgers, just the usual concerns about someone managing a team at a certain level for the first time – ability to handle the spotlight of the media and supporters at a club that elicits worldwide interest (some, like Hodgson, wilt under it), ability to handle the egos of players earning £100,000+ per week in some cases, ability to meet expectations, etc. He may well meet all of these requirements with something to spare, but we simply don’t know right now.

Another concern, maybe my biggest, is how the club is going to be run from here on out and how he will fit into that. I look at how the club handled the Suarez saga (effectively placing Kenny centre stage while the owners said absolutely nothing) and I shudder at the prospect of the same thing potentially happening to Rodgers. Again, it could be fine, but there is so much uncertainty at the moment.

4. Success and failure are relative terms which depend on your viewpoint. For example, some would say that Rafa failed because he didn’t win a League title, while others would suggest that it was always unrealistic given the relative resources and starting points of our main rivals. And as you progress, the bar gets raised higher and higher. Me, I think that Rafa was a success in almost everything he did and was undone by having no support within the club. And my gut-feeling right now is that if Brendan Rodgers is given the right level of support from those around and above him (and that’s by no means a safe bet right now) and is given enough funds to go about implementing his vision effectively (and I’m not talking City-levels of cash here), then, honestly? Gut-feeling? I don’t think he’ll leave Liverpool F.C. having ‘failed,’ under my definition of the term at least.

[iVapor]

Sorry if its not relevant to the OP.. however;

Neil Jones ‏@neiljonesecho
As expected, compensation for Brendan Rodgers is agreed between #LFC and Swansea.


Neil Jones ‏@neiljonesecho
I understand #LFC will also be taking three key members of Swansea's backroom staff. They are Colin Pascoe, Chris Davies and Glen Driscoll.

Well actually it is relevant, however i for one don't even know what part these people played within the backroom staff..? Was one his assistant manager?

[The Fletcher Memorial]

But it's not official?

[DyingAtheist]

But it's not official?

Won't be until Friday when they'll be able to stick Warrior branding over everything in the background, at least, that's the general consensus.

As for the OP, I'm really in two minds. The past few years have jaded me somewhat and I can see this going awfully, and part of me expects it to do so. For it to be another few seasons of turmoil and heartbreak.
However I do genuinely believe that Rodgers has everything needed in his locker to get us playing some great football and clawing our way back to the top, and if he can do that, given his age, he could build a real dynasty here.

We could have a Hodgson or a Ferguson (Not suggesting I like Ferguson, by the by) and I have no idea which way it's going to go. It's exciting and nerve-wracking all at once.

[richiedouglas]

Sorry if its not relevant to the OP.. however;

Neil Jones ‏@neiljonesecho
As expected, compensation for Brendan Rodgers is agreed between #LFC and Swansea.


Neil Jones ‏@neiljonesecho
I understand #LFC will also be taking three key members of Swansea's backroom staff. They are Colin Pascoe, Chris Davies and Glen Driscoll.

Well actually it is relevant, however i for one don't even know what part these people played within the backroom staff..? Was one his assistant manager?

http://www.swanseacity.net/page/StaffRoom/0,,10354~1975508,00.html

First team coach, match analyst and someone else. Glad it's not Suzan.

[iVapor]

http://www.swanseacity.net/page/StaffRoom/0,,10354~1975508,00.html

First team coach, match analyst and someone else. Glad it's not Suzan.

Thank you, wonder where this leaves Steve Clarke, hopefully he'll stay, he's done wonders for our defence and has worked with BR before hasn't he

[coolfire]

Even though I still long for Rafa to be back, This fella seems like a younger version of him. I hope I'm right.

[Hazell]

1. I think that's a bit up in the air at the moment. Certainly, FSG targeting the likes of Martinez and Rodgers suggests that they wanted young, attack minded managers/coaches but the structure is still open to debate. I guess more will be known in the upcoming weeks but at present, it's a bold move and risky but it looks to be a positive one.

2. I think if we're improving and getting close, they'll persist with him. It's clear though that 4th is the priority and Rodgers will obviously be aware of that so they'll be looking at league form very closely. We've had four managers in two years and this'll be the second that FSG have appointed in 18 months but the excuse that was used for them was that they didn't have their own man and the fans wanted Dalglish. Now they haven't got that excuse and if they sack Rodgers within the next year, serious questions have to be asked. I think they will persist with him though, or at least I hope they do even if we don't get 4th or finish in a similar position to last year.

3. Well the football is the obvious thing. Swansea clearly played good football under him and he clearly has a philosophy and style that he wants to imprint. He seems to place emphasis on 'control' and that's something we've not had since Rafa (and it's something I've missed) so in that respect I'm looking forward to see his Liverpool side in action. That's a definite positive and I hope the fans, the players, the coaching staff and the owners support him in that.

There's no doubt though that it's a huge risk, he's unproven at the level we want to aspire to and he could just be another 'flavour of the month' type appointment - I don't think he is but he's only had one season managing in the Premier League. We've seen other examples where it doesn't work out, most recently at Chelsea where Villas Boas got sacked after less than a season (though I still think he's a good manager). So there's questions about whether he can handle pressure and expectation as well the 'egos' inside the club. We'll see soon enough whether he can. There's also been criticisms of having no plan B and assertions that teams come to Anfield to defend and how Swansea didn't have that problem so they're all questions that need to be answered. I think he'll definitely have some problems, that's natural, whether he's got the solutions is the most important thing. I hope he does but as mentioned, everyone needs to support him because aside from the fact that he's at a new club, he's still young, not yet 40, so he's still improving - and again, that begs the question about whether he's right for the club at this stage of his career - and I'm sure he'll be trying to adapt to different circumstances.

He's definitely got a number of players here who fit into the way he wants to play such as Skrtel, Agger, Johnson, Lucas and Reina (been reading about he used to use Vorm and that sounds like it'd fit Reina to a tee) but there are others who may not. Does he adapt to using the players he has or try to get them to adapt, or make huge changes to the squad? So there are concerns about that as well and how successful he'll be with it.

So there are quite a few concerns as well as things to be optimistic about with this appointment.

4. It's a definite gamble but one that could be a huge positive for us. Equally, it could fail and we'll be back to starting again. I know that's probably sitting on the fence but as mentioned, there's a lot of questions that need to be answered, given what we're supposedly trying to put in place and how FSG have behaved regarding Comolli and Kenny. I hope they show patience though because I'm a quietly optimistic about this appointment if we've got the right structure in place and he's supported by the club.

[Sol]

Even though I still long for Rafa to be back, This fella seems like a younger version of him. I hope I'm right.

He's interesting and I'm quietly excited by his appointment. However, he's nothing like Benitez. What's your reasoning for that?

[i6uuaq]

There IS one thing we as fans can do to help the transition to BR, reduce the pressure on him, and in general give FSG every chance to put proper foundations in place for many years of success. That one thing is as follows:

Call ourselves a mid-table club.

That's where we've been finishing in the league, and it would be helpful to any manager trying to implement his own philosophy on a club (and helpful to new owners doing the same) to leave off those expectations of instant success and "We should be challenging for the top spots, why aren't we there, who can we blame for it" which would basically undermine everything the club is trying to do.

Call ourselves a mid-table club, and stop handing ammunition to the clueless reporters who just love to create divisions and controversy at our club.

Call ourselves a mid-table club, so our players stop walking onto the pitch imagining that the game is already won just because they play for Liverpool FC.

Call ourselves a mid-table club, so those players who thrive on being the underdog, and on surpassing our expectations, can do what they love so much and confound us all again.

[cmoogster]

That title is amazing

[Greyfox]

That title is amazing

Gotta know when to hold 'em...
Know when to fold 'em...
Know when to walk away...
And know when to run...

[Z e u s]

1.Have FSG taken LSD and gone loopy or have they actually done something interesting and potentially forward thinking by looking backwards to a man who's his own man?

It seems FSG want to build their own dynasty with us.  Let's be honest we have not won the title for over 20 years, each season the financial gap between us and Manchester United (the biggest club in the country, which was previously us) is growing and something has clearly not been right. 

FSG are trying to bring us fresh direction.  The whole structure is changing off the pitch and the idea is to make us a better run football club, a more successful one on the pitch and therefore a more profitable one.  We have wasted millions over the years on players, managers and have been underachieving given the size of our club and fan base.

Time will tell whether FSG have made the right appointment in Rodgers or the structure that they have put in place will work.  However we have needed to be better run for decades now and they now have their structure in place and their man who will hopefully stay for many year and build something special and sustainable for long term success and excellence through out the football club.  Rodgers will build an identity through out the club, he has clearl ideas of how the game should be played and it seems very similar to the 'pass and move' brand of football which made us the best team around.

They are taking a risk and it might not work, but then again what have they got to lose - it is not like the structure we had in place was working before they arrived.

2.Do you think they will give him 3 years or expect him to get 4th place in a season or was that just bollocks from the people getting rid of Dalglish?

I think the three contract is prudent.  I don't really agree on five year deals anymore for managers, as if it goes dramtically wrong we have to pay off a long contract.  I think FSG and the fans will be patient, but that doesn't mean we should have high expectations.  Fourth place should be the target next season and if he doesn't make it he will have to face scrutiny, as Dalglish did.  But we also need to realise we have no devine right to finish top four and circumstances need to be considered - but it is an achievable aim given the players Rodgersin inheriting.  Who knows whether Rodgers will get three years or one, that will depend on the expectations of FSG and how well Rodgers does, in all aspects of the job.  But the fans would certainly like to see some stability as would FSG and I'm sure that will occur if Rodgers shows us progress and a vision that we can all buy into.

3.What are you looking forward to, and what are you concerned about with BR?

I am looking forward to having a young, hungry manager who is ambitious and wants to build something special.  The brand of football is also something to look forward to as he likes to see players who are comfortable in possession and dominate the opposition in that regard.

The concern is are the fans patient enough regarding his brand of football.  It is not like Rodgers Swansea team play like Barca.  Barca pass the ball and are always probing in the oppositions half looking for a gap or space to exploit and attack.  With Rodgers Swansea team, they would have loads of possession, but a lotof it was in his own teams half and the side would pass backwards frequently.  I'm not sure the fans at Anfield will accept that brand of football.  I hope they do, but when we see too many back or side ways passes in the past we here moans and groans round Anfield... especially if we are not winning.

If Rodgers has the back four, Reina and Lucas passing it between themselves most of the time and not showing enough ambition to attack teams, focussing on possession rather than winning - it could be a problem.  I hope it isn't, as I have no problem with players passing backwards, as long as we keep the ball.  The idea is to wait for an opening and exploit it.  But at Swansea the fans would be delighted with the side just keeping possession as the expectations are far lower than Liverpool.  Not sure our fans will be quiet as patient, especially at Anfield, where they will demand we attack the opposition.

4.Is it a gamble or a shrewd investment.... Show us your crystal balls now and in years to come, we'll look back as say "Ah, they knew what they were on about" or, more likely "See, none of us ever know.."

It is clearly a gamble, but a low risk one IMO.  Can Rodgers do any worse than 8th in the league?  It is a great time to take over the club as this side was under performing and if he can get the best out of our players, then we will be back in the top four.  If he does that and the fans like the way he plays football, then he'll have won the doubters over and he will be able to then build something really special.

It is an exciting time, despite the sad loss of Dalglish, we need to jump on board this new wave and enjoy the ride, as there is no reason why Rodgers can't be a success at this club.

[RedRush]

1.Have FSG taken LSD and gone loopy or have they actually done something interesting and potentially forward thinking by looking backwards to a man who's his own man?

It depends on what our goal is - to become Champions again, or to qualify for CL. Rodgers has a good footballing philosophy, and he'll have us playing good possession football, I'm fairly certain of that. However good he is though, he's now sailed into stormier seas, and he's only had the PL experience at the relative calm of Swansea (no offense to them). Somebody mentioned that with Rodgers, we'd be creating our very own Klopp, or Pep, etc, rather than pinching them from elsewhere. That's a very optimistic view IMO, because the opposite can also happen. He can fail. And here, we have to differentiate what failure means to us and what it means to FSG, and I'm not entirely sure it is the same thing. Does Rodgers have what it takes to take us above the cash of Man U, Man C and Chelsea and the network of Arsenal?

In Rafa, we had the man who very nearly did it in 2008/2009, despite the problems at our club, despite Gerrard and Torres only starting together a mere 18 games. He was beaten to the tape in the end by a team which had the luxury of Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney, and each have gone on to become the best players at their respective clubs (Tevez's reconciliation with Man C gave them the push they needed to win the league). Given little cash, he gave us the best midfield in the world, and the best strikeforce in the league (we outscored the eventual champions). He gave us arguably the best goalkeeper, and great defenders in Agger and Skrtel. And he gave us Lucas too and was booed for it. What he couldn't deliver was the clout that ManU enjoyed locally, the kind of clout that forces certain referees like Howard Webb into mistakes like awarding wrong penalty decisions or to wrongfully chalk off a valid goal, or to send off an opposition player over the course of a season, the kind of clout that condemns a good man on the mere word of another . That was the only reason why we were #1 in Europe and #2 in England then. Rafa was close to building a great team, but it all fell apart when the rules and the environment changed at the club, yet people chose to myopically blame Rafa for selling Alonso, and various other similarly myopic reasons.

That is all irrelevant now I suppose, but the point I'm making is that Rafa is the obvious choice to make us Champions again, not just annual CL qualifiers. I don't know if Rodgers has that kind of special ability that Rafa has proven, but I think it is obvious that something is indeed rotten within our club if FSG cannot even make the effort to interview Rafa.

So they've gone with Rodgers, and the question is how much are they willing to throw at the problem? And the major question for me is still: which problem - CL qualification or Champions? My gut feelings (it is just my opinion after all) is that they'd be more than happy with the money from CL qualification, if Rodgers can do for us what Wenger does at Arsenal year in year out without actually winning anything. Will we be happy with that?

It also depends on our new structure. With a good DOF to recruit/nurture talent, and Rodgers to make the team more than the sum of its parts, we should improve our chances for CL qualification. Good manager + Good DOF = better odds. That's how it should work in theory. In practice, egos become a major factor, and if Van Gaal is the DOF, then I believe FSG has taken LSD, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in our circumstances. If there's no DOF, then FSG actually believes that Rodgers is better as a manager for us than Rafa. That's loopy.

2.Do you think they will give him 3 years or expect him to get 4th place in a season or was that just bollocks from the people getting rid of Dalglish?

It depends on how much money FSG is willing to throw at the problem. No offense meant to Kenny but if Rodgers blows what little FSG throws in on another Downing and continually plays him despite his form, then he's liable to be sacked as well. I think they won't make 4th place mandatory the 1st year, and even if he doesn't make it the 2nd year but show signs of getting there, they will give him 3 years. Still cannot believe that 4th place is our expectation now, while Rafa was (and still is) berated for not winning it when our league was the strongest in Europe then.

3.What are you looking forward to, and what are you concerned about with BR?

Looking forward to good possession football. Concerned that BR's not ready for the step up, that he's a one season wonder. Read up on his philosophy and character though and while he reminds me of Rafa in some ways, he hasn't proven anything yet. Also, knives are already being sharpened by the media and the cult of Ferguson. Just you wait and see.

4.Is it a gamble or a shrewd investment.... Show us your crystal balls now and in years to come, we'll look back as say "Ah, they knew what they were on about" or, more likely "See, none of us ever know.."

4th place - shrewd investment.
Winning the league - gamble.

[sushared]

my take on the matter would be

BR has managed top flight team only for one season. usually it is the 2nd season when they are caught out. teams would have found the way they play and make the required adjustments to play out the teams. i would have waited to see how BR responds to those challenges, is is that his teams play only that way or does he have the tactical accumen to change the style of play or formation to outwit teams again. he would defintely require that because our current team is not a gifted team by any means and we need to hit way above our weight to achieve the 4th place. rafa used to do just that, his teams play different teams with different approaches, not really convinced BR will be able to pull that off. easy on the eye football is one thing but results are the most important thing and if we are achieving that then i have no issues if we play some drab football on the way but would be hard to digest  if it went the other way around.

regarding Fenway, i think they have the right approach towards achieving what they want in terms of financial independence, in that they want more thinking heads than relying on one person to do all the thinking in terms playing personnel,  but as in football the system can only work if you have the right personnel in the team. do we have the right team in the top now, time will tell with BR and the possible appointment of the DOF.

i think BR will be given time as he is their appointment unless and until results are down right pathetic and i really dont want our club to go the way most of the other clubs are going in terms of having short term appointments.

[RedRush]

Get over Rafa and move on.

See I have a problem with what you're suggesting. It is my problem and I guess the same with others. I have very high regards for the man, as high as I do Paisley, which I'm sure you don't. If Bob was still alive and waiting to get the job, and FSG don't even bother, I'm sure you'd never say that.

In other words, who the hell are you?

[kdorg]

There IS one thing we as fans can do to help the transition to BR, reduce the pressure on him, and in general give FSG every chance to put proper foundations in place for many years of success. That one thing is as follows:

Call ourselves a mid-table club.

That's where we've been finishing in the league, and it would be helpful to any manager trying to implement his own philosophy on a club (and helpful to new owners doing the same) to leave off those expectations of instant success and "We should be challenging for the top spots, why aren't we there, who can we blame for it" which would basically undermine everything the club is trying to do.

Call ourselves a mid-table club, and stop handing ammunition to the clueless reporters who just love to create divisions and controversy at our club.

Call ourselves a mid-table club, so our players stop walking onto the pitch imagining that the game is already won just because they play for Liverpool FC.

Call ourselves a mid-table club, so those players who thrive on being the underdog, and on surpassing our expectations, can do what they love so much and confound us all again.

what the hell are you on about we are going to win the league! In Brendan we trust!!

[fatlip13]

1.
i personally like the idea of a set up of more than 1 person doing everything. FSG are not really inventing the wheel here but it is a step forward from the same managers getting the jobs.
2.
 can not see him not being there for 2 years atleast
3.
the style of play and hopefully a quiet year in the media unless we are tearing up the league, no bankruptcy, no manager getting sacked, no racism outcry or such and the press have no agenda to get rid of our manager.
4.
every manager is a gamble no matter how good a CV they have.
i think brendan will work with players who want to work hard and learn. if they don't measure up then they will be moved on. unless he is very good in the transfer market this year then 5th or 6th will probably be our position. when he has HIS team around him he won't be aiming for 4th it will be the title.

i played with him at under 14 level and he was a fantastic player then. he did not have an ego but would help anyone out. very nice bloke and i think no one had a bad word to say about him. hope he does very well and brings success to our club and also to our little country

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

Do wish that video didn't say "On the Muppet Show", it really changes the title of the thread. And it isn't like Liverpool FC and The Muppet Show haven't had some similarities in recent years.

[IamSpartacus]

Scribes:

So in some ways, we've employed a manager who is about as modern as another BR, British Rail. He won't accept an invitation to be one of several interviewees; he has a long standing football philosophy developed in Europe and dare I say it, seems interested in pass and move...

1.Have FSG taken LSD and gone loopy or have they actually done something interesting and potentially forward thinking by looking backwards to a man who's his own man?

2.Do you think they will give him 3 years or expect him to get 4th place in a season or was that just bollocks from the people getting rid of Dalglish?

3.What are you looking forward to, and what are you concerned about with BR?

4.Is it a gamble or a shrewd investment.... Show us your crystal balls now and in years to come, we'll look back as say "Ah, they knew what they were on about" or, more likely "See, none of us ever know.."

1. Sometimes in life if you look as far back as you possibly can you will see ahead.
BR is the new old. A British manager that can say more than "Une Cerveja por favor"
If the manager is not his own man he will not weather the media storm, other managers mind games and squad petulance.

2. I don't know

3. If Brendan can forge a bunch of lower league drop outs and misfits into a 11th position Premier League positioned team playing attacking high pressing football then what could he do with the current squad. If this guy was American there would already be some champion movie about beating the odds.
My only concern is that supporters will not give him enough time.

4. An investment is only as risky as the investor. If FSG are clear about the philosophy and structure they would like to see moving forward and BR fits into that then its less risky. If not then more so.
My crystal ball shows bacon face swallowing his own tongue in a geriatric home for mentalists as they play a historic football Documentary of the 2012-2022 LFC team that dominated British football returning to the top of Football elites; and the succesful structure is mandatory reading on all Sports MBA Projects.

[mariov77]

Get over Rafa and move on.

If we get Rafa we are not really moving on.. We are going back on memory lane. We need something different , something new imho

In regards the rest of the questions I am very impressed with some of the replies to the questions and to avoid repeating comments I think that FSG are trying to build new foundations for the club which I am happy with. It is a risky business if you get the most famous manager you are nit guaranteed titles.

At the end of the day any investment (like question 4) has a % of risk. Ours at the moment is not as great as it would had been if we hired a famous manager...

[Fruity]

1. It is forward thinking and interesting as well as being extremely risky. Too often there is a Chris Coleman, Alan Curbishley or a Steve McClaren. Whilst from what I have read on here there are plenty of positives to Brendan Rodgers up until now he was miles away from being a top manager. Now he has the top job he has a lot to prove.

2. He might not make it till xmas if he follows a similar path to hodgson. Football is about results, I dont care what everyone is saying on here at the moment, but if we lost 5 games on the bounce there will be plenty on here saying it was a step too far for him. So I think he will have to deliver more than kenny but based on the players we have that should be possible.

3. I am looking forward to good football (which we did have under kenny) and tactical awareness.

4. Its a gamble but thats not to say some don't pay off, but he would not have been my first choice.

[redbyrdz]

I'm still a bit baffled by FSG's approach. They have been telling us for ages how they want to change the whole management structure, but each time they change it they end up doing the same thing again. Apparently Comolli got sacked because they wanted to have more of a team in place, and they wanted a manager to be part of a bigger team, so they sacked Kenny. Now they seem to have done away with the DoF idea all together and gone back to just having a manager with some backroom staff. It's a bit odd really.

That being said, I actually have hopes for Rodgers. I quite like what the articles say about him in the other thread. Maybe we'll make up for or rotten luck last season by appointing someone who'll do well here. One of my biggest fears with appointing a new manager is that we'd change or footballing style again (from Rafa to Hodgson to Kenny), and need at least another season to be it in. But Rodgers will likely continue to play pass and move, maybe with a bit more emphasis on pressing which I'd love to see. It would mean less adjustment for the players, and that his style might work with the players already here. If that is the case, then results won't be as far off as I feared.

Obviously his appointment is a huge gamble, and it might well not work out. And if it doesn't, the future won't be looking bright.

[will2003]

I wanted Rafa back. Ok thats not going to happen but I have a feeling about Rogers and it will be a shrewd move. We hopefully be playing good football and head up the table.

My only concern is his ability to hold on to the Suarez, Aggers, Renia's of the squad and he ability to get some of the needed targets.

Its looking like be will be going for up and coming stars ala Rafas vision but as he prove (Leto, Gonzalas anyone) that this isnt guaranteed. I think this is a gamble by FSG and I hope they back him in getting some more established players to supplement the up and coming ones.

[Redeo]

1.Have FSG taken LSD and gone loopy or have they actually done something interesting and potentially forward thinking by looking backwards to a man who's his own man?

2.Do you think they will give him 3 years or expect him to get 4th place in a season or was that just bollocks from the people getting rid of Dalglish?

3.What are you looking forward to, and what are you concerned about with BR?

4.Is it a gamble or a shrewd investment.... Show us your crystal balls now and in years to come, we'll look back as say "Ah, they knew what they were on about" or, more likely "See, none of us ever know.."

Some great posts in the thread.
Personally, I cannot answer or even think through any of these questions before seeing the whole structure that FSG want to implement and that will accompany Rodgers' appointment. If nothing comes of a big name Sporting Director appointment, I will be significantly deflated. I will be tremendously disappointed in FSG if they don't end up implementing the sort of structure (or end up implementing a perfunctory one) they themselves have been signaling is the way forward.

Rodgers strikes me as a smart guy who's been around a bit, worked with smart, successful people, and essentially has potential. He ticks the apparently critical box of being young and eager to still learn and prove himself. However, given that he is ultimately unproven at the level of where we want to be, his appointment will make much better sense in the context of the rest of the structure FSG have been talking about. If he ends up getting complete control of all things football, as bandied around now, FSG will IMO expose themselves for the first time as not being able to reasonably deliver on a course of action they themselves have outlined. It will also be difficult to justify why RB was not talked to and even why KD was not given a bit more support (as Royhendo points out) and extra time.

[G1 Jockey 4(betfair)]

how will rodgers play it?

will he go tight early till the stakes get raised ?

will he then loosen up and start firing?

or will he remain a rock throughout picking moments to play his trump cards......aces and 8s

[John C]

1.Have FSG taken LSD and gone loopy or have they actually done something interesting and potentially forward thinking by looking backwards to a man who's his own man?
Firstly I suppose it depends how wide they spread their net and how much effort they put in, in pursuit of a manager. Was there a genuine effort made to get some bigger names or did they settle on selecting from a small group of 3 relatively young, fresh managers. If they did then they made the right choice from the 3 imo. Of that I have no doubts whatsoever.
Overall, no, they haven’t taken that wonderful substance, I think their judgement was coloured by a fresh approach needed at the club and their desperation to finally make a mark as owners.. This is the start of their own trip which they hadn’t really been able to get going until this opportunity arose – however much we dislike the rationale.
I’m not saying they have been 100% right, I’m saying that having made their move they’ve exercised full control of their asset now.
2.Do you think they will give him 3 years or expect him to get 4th place in a season or was that just bollocks from the people getting rid of Dalglish?
I think 4^th was a target given to Kenny and having realise its perhaps not that easy they will lower their expectations slightly and temporarily, but with a new structure.
I believe he will get 3 years bar an absolute unforeseeable disaster. He is ostensibly knowledgeable about the game in a wide context. He’s learnt from the best and he’s learntd from his own previous mistakes. The resultant factor being the football we witnessed on many occasions, including Anfield, last season.
3.What are you looking forward to, and what are you concerned about with BR?
I’m looking forward to the style of play we expected more regularly under Kenny. Probably a bit of everything that will have us on the edge of our seats at times but with more consistent performances.
The noticeable statement will be in his signings, but not necessarily in his 1^st or 2^nd buys. He may engineer some key players in quickly with a view to completing the window with a significant piece of the jigsaw.
My only concern is that he isn’t given time, although I do think we’ll be knitting nicely by November, we should be unconcerned if there are a few blips along the way. But we should be use to that familiar feeling by now anyway.
4.Is it a gamble or a shrewd investment.... Show us your crystal balls now and in years to come, we'll look back as say "Ah, they knew what they were on about" or, more likely "See, none of us ever know.."
Its definitely a huge gamble – no one can really say otherwise. All managers and indeed all players are gambles with associated risks – there is no guarantee of success. However, there is a balance of probability that he will do well. No disrespect to any previous managers but I genuinely regard this as a fresh, dynamic approach by ambitious owners rather than owners who are insouciant about where the club is heading. He has a fairly decent breadth of experience of English football, and thats the area we need to conquer now. Hold on to more CL runs for a bit, lets just solidify ourselves as a force in the PL over the next few years.
I predict that he’ll take us to 4^th in his 3^rd year with progress and consistent football along the way.

[BathroomBook]

Where are we as a club?  Being as objective as possible: we are closer to relegation than being crowned champions.  Our captain, and arguably best player, is aging and his skills beginning to diminish.  Our investments over the course of the past two seasons have underwhelmed with few exceptions.  This past season saw few of our players improve their reputation on the field.

How do we improve? The expedient approach is to spend lavishly on the biggest names.  Doesn't look like we'll adopt this approach, or even that this is the best approach.  Look at Swansea or Newcastle to see that spending doesn't equate results.

So we will take a more slower approach.  In order to execute this properly we need to rely on innovation, positivity, and hunger.  Brendan Rodgers ticks all those boxes.  So no, his hire is not a gamble.  His hire is one of the optimal scenarios given the approach we've chosen to adopt.

[jason42]

Scribes:

So in some ways, we've employed a manager who is about as modern as another BR, British Rail. He won't accept an invitation to be one of several interviewees; he has a long standing football philosophy developed in Europe and dare I say it, seems interested in pass and move...

1.Have FSG taken LSD and gone loopy or have they actually done something interesting and potentially forward thinking by looking backwards to a man who's his own man?

2.Do you think they will give him 3 years or expect him to get 4th place in a season or was that just bollocks from the people getting rid of Dalglish?

3.What are you looking forward to, and what are you concerned about with BR?

4.Is it a gamble or a shrewd investment.... Show us your crystal balls now and in years to come, we'll look back as say "Ah, they knew what they were on about" or, more likely "See, none of us ever know.."

1)Living in Swansea, I can say that Rodgers is ;)was held in very high esteem. He came in and took over from Paulo Sousa, who continued the work started by Martinez but Rodgers were different. The Swans played good football but their results improved and they made the play offs where they beat Forest and Reading to go up and stay in the PL. I would still love to have seen Kenny or Rafa at the club to help usher in the new dawn. This could be the start of a new dynasty or we could just be climbing aboard the EPL manager merry go round.
I would like to know if FSG decided on Rodgers over Martinez or did Martinez not get what he was looking for so did they turn to Rodgers???

2) I think they have to give him 3 years unless his first season is a disaster and we battle relegation. His buys in the summer will be crucial - he may go back to Swansea for Sigurdson, Allen and maybe Dyer or Sinclair but I can't see too many other players he would want to bring with him.

3) I am looking a good style of football that results in a plethora of goals and not post hits...My concerns are him being able to convince the big names (can we truly compete for the big names???) to sign for us but his stock is good based on his work with Swansea and players who like to play could be attracted to that.

4) Only time will tell. If we win No19 in a year or 3 and we are challenging for Big Ears again then yes it will have been worth it. Still would love Kenny or Rafa back in some capacity.

[TepidT2O]

What this is, is a sign of a new dawn in British coaching.

For so many years the percentage long ball football has been the stock in trade of the British coach.

"don't forget you don't have to hit it short, you can use the big man"

An endemic disease in British football, a cancer that has stil not been cured..

But maybe, just maybe, this signals a new dawn, a new breed of British coaches who have realised that they need to change the game and the way we play it.

We've all sniffed at the prospect of a "British coach" (Kenny not included) because of this prehistoric approach.  But, it's exciting to have a British manager and it's exciting because he doesn't have a traditional British approach, he's modern, progressive and he works with the ball where it's meant to be....on grass.

I hope this works, I really do. 

It was time for a clean slate at the club, after so much hurt over the last three years I'm glad that we've not looked to the past and we're looking to the future, a new Liverpool dynasty (well, hopefully).

It's a risk, buts it's new and it's exciting, if we can get into the mix for fourth next year then that will be progress.  We're better than our league position this year might suggest and there's something solid to build on.

Good luck Brendan I will certainly be rooting for you and our team.

[mercurial]

I think this is a gamble as the title suggest from FSG. What are the motivations for this selection we cannot say and that is what it should be. The challenges before Rodgers is more to do with his personality than his tactical management. He already showed that he can get a promoted team to play cracking football and win. So he is a good manager, gets the team to play exciting football, emphasizes the team game, uses modern training methods and so on. So tactically I do not think we would have a issue.

My concern is would he be able to handle the big stage. The pressure is on him from the start. Can he handle the big players, their egos, the dressing room challenges, can he take the tough decisions? How much will FSG support him, in the end he will require to be backed in media and in terms of money. Would he be able to get the big players on his side? Can he handle the media well? In a sense, he is just an unknown quantity at the top level. I hope he can turn into a Shankly but he may well turn into hodge podge. At this stage we do not know but he will need fans to support him. I really really hope that he gets time and the backing. If the fans show the same impatience as they showed with other incumbents in the recent past then god help the club. Mediocrity is but a step away.

[my usenme changed?]

Does anyone know when he will be "officially" announced as manger by the club? I thought it might have been tomorrow, with the Warrior deal kicking in too - new era, etc - but all the news reports are very conflicting 

I personally reckon it's a great appointment. A young, ambitious manager who believes in footballing philosophy. Brilliant. Let's hope it all works out. I have an added interest as I'm from a small village which is around 25 miles away from Carnlough. His brother lives down the road from my parents too, my dad was talking to him today and says his phone hasn't stopped ringing! He also offered Brendan free fuel at our petrol station if he ever calls in. 

[Mutton Geoff]

 Kenny (to) Rodgers (the Gambler)

Good title, apt because no matter how you look at this appointment it is a massive gamble, in some ways that is the most exciting and scary feature to it.
 
Will it work or not?

Will the supporters give him time or will they moan and groan after the Honeymoon period of the pre season games are over?

Will he get a tougher time from the media having joined us?

Can he sort out a few tricky player decisions?

Can he be also a lucky manager as well as a good one?

Perhaps for us we needed to get rid of the cobwebs and rejuvenate the club and fans and with this quest to appoint Brendan Rodgers, there is a need to move on now to a totally new dawn.

On the playing side the football played by his Swansea team has been good to watch for most of the season, including the way they almost passed us off the park in Anfield.  With that game and judging simply on the football tactics and skill shown on the pitch it was difficult to realise who was our team and who Swansea were! His team always reminded me as almost of a watered down copy of Barcelona without the quality in finishing and with slightly less adept players but with the right philosophy of ball retention!

As for Brendan and our fan base, I hope he can now be like our own ‘Scouse Spring and with it all old agendas or grudges put aside and everyone can get behind the Manager, his Coaching Staff and the Team.

We have all been tearing ourselves apart for far too long and it needs to stop in my opinion.


Perhaps for any doubters who may still exist, another of Kenny Rogers Song maybe relevant for them I hope,

 “ If I could only change your mind”
 
New Season, New Manager, New Hope, onwards and upwards supporting Brendan and the Team

[helmboy_nige]

1.Have FSG taken LSD and gone loopy or have they actually done something interesting and potentially forward thinking by looking backwards to a man who's his own man?

As much as I don't want to give them too much credit I still think this was part of the plan.  They said all along that they didn't want an all-powerful DoF, so having a manager and potentially other people dealing with key areas is still on the cards. 

People get too hung up on Rafa (and previously Kenny).  They are the elephants in the room and to be harsh, one of them has just been put down and the other as good as.  Not even calling up Rafa is a statement of intent.  FSG want to build a new legacy.  Their legacy.  And that means a new man.  That they've given the manager more control that perhaps they wanted is perhaps more symptomatic of the interview process.  Rodgers may well have convinced them that he can run the show and will happily take advice from other sources.

2.Do you think they will give him 3 years or expect him to get 4th place in a season or was that just bollocks from the people getting rid of Dalglish?

I think he will get 3 years short of a clear Hodgson style disaster.  Kenny was never FSGs choice.  They 'hoped' it would work, but clearly they wanted a young, new generation manager who can set a new philosophy on the club.  8th place gave them the power to return to their original plan, but it will be 'interesting' if we finish say 6th - 8th next season as there will be calls to sack him, but hopefully it won't come to that.

3.What are you looking forward to, and what are you concerned about with BR?

Attacking football with a clear plan.  There was too much tinkering in an effort to fit the players in last season.  If we are setting out a blueprint then I expect the new signings to fit to that rather than trying to build teams around individuals.  I think Rodgers will be popular with the fans as there is a down to earth (and quite socialist) quality about him.

My concerns are about handling the pressure.  Everything I've read suggests he can, but he hasn't been tested yet on this stage and that's the gamble.

4.Is it a gamble or a shrewd investment.... Show us your crystal balls now and in years to come, we'll look back as say "Ah, they knew what they were on about" or, more likely "See, none of us ever know.."

I think it's both.  Every new manager is a gamble.  Even bringing Rafa back would have been a gamble.  But as someone said earlier if Rafa hadn't existed bringing in the likes of Rodgers would be considered the obvious direction to go in.  A young, hungry for success manager who hopefully 'gets' what Liverpool is about.