Topic: RIP Christopher Hitchens

[macca888]

You want me to say that to her ?

Yes, and then smash her face in with a spanner.

[beardsley4ever]

Genius of a man.  Genius does not equal perfect, by any means.  But he was a genius (in my opinion) in every sense of the word.  I've read and watched just about everything I can find from him, and he's helped me come to terms with my own apostasy, which was very difficult to do.  But he put into words so many of the things I was already feeling, which meant a lot to me.  His views on Iraq clearly divided opinions massively, and I didn't agree with them, but they were fundamentally a person putting (his own) principles ahead of practical reality - I don't personally think that he abandoned his principles, as some have suggested (quite the opposite).

This is fantastic, btw - it's a short clip of his last public appearance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yr5OLePNlI. 

[Alan_X]

That's what I thought too when I read it. Not that it was intentional but that was what it reminded me of.

The quote:

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

No - it's from Coming Up for Air.

[SP]

I particularly didn't like the way he talked down on sci-fi when clearly writers like Herbert, Asimov and Heinlein were capable of much greater art than he was himself.

In the period when he was active reviewing, Herbert, Asimov and Heinlein's output was complete turd - completely dependent on their earlier work.

[groundhog]

This is fantastic, btw - it's a short clip of his last public appearance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yr5OLePNlI. 

That's a really moving little piece - I've got to admit it brought a tear to my eye. Thanks for posting it!

[beardsley4ever]

That's a really moving little piece - I've got to admit it brought a tear to my eye. Thanks for posting it!

I watch it pretty often, to be honest.  I think the video is just as powerful whether you liked Hitchens or not, and whether you are an atheist or a theist.  Important reminder of the exciting times within which we sit, and that we should never let anyone for any reason allow us to sacrifice our own critical faculties in exchange for their eternal love/leadership/control.  The importance of that message should not get lost in amongst the debate about Iraq/atheism/Mother Theresa/etc.

[Yorkykopite]

You certainly get a measure of the wonder of human life when you listen to Hitchens on science and the eternal struggle to understand the universe.

[bigbonedrawky]

Yes, but have you thought about it for a second from the guy's point of view for even a second ? He's gone through most of his life having been deceived by members of his own family and the most he does is act a bit irritable.

And I happen to think it's entirely fine to be dismissive and disdainful with respect to religion. That's pretty much one of the rare occasions where you'll find me mention respect and religion in the same sentence.

You make his family sound like radical preachers. 
Besides he's spent 4 decades as a adult living away from them and he as always considered himself the black sheep of the Family yet he has remained a member of the flock, so if there is blame then he can only blame himself.

If its fine to be dismissive of religion, is it also fine to be dismissive and disdainful to a person. after all she's never deceived me.
   

[bigbonedrawky]

No - it's from Coming Up for Air.

But is it a fair comparison ?

BTW
Its a good job nobody followed Mr So and So's  Advice - "However my advice would be to read what's written, not what you think is written" ( in a Hitchens thread    )He read it, he replied to it but...  I don't think he understood the sentence or the relevance of the "spanner", which was a bit ironic considering it was a reply to this - "If you understand that sentence then it might help you a little bit"

My advice is don't just read what is written, always think about what is written and don't let intellectual snobbery mislead you. In this case it really might help Mr So and So see the road he's going down.

Oh and if any of you want continue Hitchens work in attempting to free humanity from Religious Dogma, You'll catch more flies with Honey than Vinegar.

[Euskadi]

Rest in Peace. Special writer.

[Corkboy]

BTW
Its a good job nobody followed Mr So and So's  Advice

You really have a bit of a crush on Yorkykopite, don't you?

[Yorkykopite]

Oh and if any of you want continue Hitchens work in attempting to free humanity from Religious Dogma, You'll catch more flies with Honey than Vinegar.

Is that the way you see humanity? As insects?

Orwell had something to say about that as well.

[bigbonedrawky]

Is that the way you see humanity? As insects?

Orwell had something to say about that as well.

No but I know some politicians who do and their follower are on the march and they are marching to the beat of your drum.
Its often said that if you lie down with Dogs you wake up with fleas. So when you woke up in the same bed as Frottage Murdock Griffin and le Penn the other day, was you itching ?

Damn I've done it again I've just compared Humans to Dogs which isn't very nice at all...from the Dogs point of view anyway.
Maybe I should of used Pigs as a example.   

 

   

[TepidT2O]

No but I know some politicians who do and their follower are on the march and they are marching to the beat of your drum.
Its often said that if you lie down with Dogs you wake up with fleas. So when you woke up in the same bed as Frottage Murdock Griffin and le Penn the other day, was you itching ?

Damn I've done it again I've just compared Humans to Dogs which isn't very nice at all...from the Dogs point of view anyway.
Maybe I should of used Pigs as a example.   

 

   

Were you.... Not was you...
And have not of....

Give it a few more months and we will eradicate even the split infinitives

Which politicians do you know that see people as insects...I'd like to see the evidence

[Corkboy]

Yorkyrawky,

Your posts against (yes, that's the right word) Yorkykopite are getting very personal and sort of weird. He gets them regularly on here, little cyber stalkers who become entranced, chatty and then a little abusive. Quite why he attracts people like demented moths to a flame, I don't know. It's depressingly repetitive and very sad. I challenge you to be the First Yorkykopite Stalker Who Changed. You can do it, I believe in you. Stop being such a whiny little bitch.

[TepidT2O]

Yorkyrawky,

Your posts against (yes, that's the right word) Yorkykopite are getting very personal and sort of weird. He gets them regularly on here, little cyber stalkers who become entranced, chatty and then a little abusive. Quite why he attracts people like demented moths to a flame, I don't know. It's depressingly repetitive and very sad. I challenge you to be the First Yorkykopite Stalker Who Changed. You can do it, I believe in you. Stop being such a whiny little bitch.

[jooneyisdagod]

You make his family sound like radical preachers. 
Besides he's spent 4 decades as a adult living away from them and he as always considered himself the black sheep of the Family yet he has remained a member of the flock, so if there is blame then he can only blame himself.

If its fine to be dismissive of religion, is it also fine to be dismissive and disdainful to a person. after all she's never deceived me.
   

I assume he followed the family religion and didn't suddenly start following the I'm sorry I seem to have lost the ability to think for myself for 40 years before acting in an irritable manner with his family ?


Edit: Fucking autocorrect

[Yorkykopite]

No but I know some politicians who do and their follower are on the march and they are marching to the beat of your drum.
Its often said that if you lie down with Dogs you wake up with fleas. So when you woke up in the same bed as Frottage Murdock Griffin and le Penn the other day, was you itching ?

Damn I've done it again I've just compared Humans to Dogs which isn't very nice at all...from the Dogs point of view anyway.
Maybe I should of used Pigs as a example.   

I realise English isn't your first language, but you're quite hard to understand. Sorry.

[bigbonedrawky]

Were you.... Not was you...
And have not of....

Give it a few more months and we will eradicate even the split infinitives

Which politicians do you know that see people as insects...I'd like to see the evidence

I got to give the grammer nazis something to feel superior about, it gives them a nice little lift.
Eric had something to say about grammar too.

Yorkyrawky,

Your posts against (yes, that's the right word) Yorkykopite are getting very personal and sort of weird. He gets them regularly on here, little cyber stalkers who become entranced, chatty and then a little abusive. Quite why he attracts people like demented moths to a flame, I don't know. It's depressingly repetitive and very sad. I challenge you to be the First Yorkykopite Stalker Who Changed. You can do it, I believe in you. Stop being such a whiny little bitch.

I'm sorry I didn't realize he's been cyber stalked/bullied in the past but the way he sometimes talks to people on here  I can see how that might come around.
I do know he likes to have a debate and I do like to have a chat I also know he gives as good as he gets and often gives better
If he's a typical Yorky he will have thick skin (and a thicker skull ) it will be water off a duck back.
However
I like to apologise to YorkyKopite for any offense caused and I will gladly take up Corkys Challenge. But I will say this I wish you was less like Hitchens and more like Orwell ( he was well mannered and polite )   

In the mean time:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc



Sorry Corkboy i couldn't resist 

 

[Robinred]

I got to give the grammer nazis something to feel superior about, it gives them a nice little lift.
Eric had something to say about grammar too.
 
I'm sorry I didn't realize he's been cyber stalked/bullied in the past but the way he sometimes talks to people on here  I can see how that might come around.
I do know he likes to have a debate and I do like to have a chat I also know he gives as good as he gets and often gives better
If he's a typical Yorky he will have thick skin (and a thicker skull ) it will be water off a duck back.
However
I like to apologise to YorkyKopite for any offense caused and I will gladly take up Corkys Challenge. But I will say this I wish you was less like Hitchens and more like Orwell ( he was well mannered and polite )   

In the mean time:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc



Sorry Corkboy i couldn't resist 

 

Fuck me but that is one of the funniest things I've seen on YouTube, and I've seen countless Spike Milligan, Groucho Marx, Harry Enfield and Tommy Cooper clips.

[electricghost]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YiU5u6zAtyc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YiU5u6zAtyc</a>

[bigbonedrawky]

Corkboy
First of all I've been on here for over four years and whilst been somewhat similar, my username is not a reference to Yorkykopite, its just a coincidence based on location.
I was going to use a different username which I use on a different site but it was already in use on here.
My earliest recollection of Yorkykopite was a couple of years ago in a BBC thread funnily enough it started with him insulting me. (not a big deal)
However since last week I have made eleven post quoting Yorkiekopite now I not sure what your definition of stalking entails but I suppose it could be seen as harassment at the very least.
 I am aware of one poster on RAWK who was cyber-stalked from site to site and it led to threats against his family So I know it is a serious problem and I also know this kind of thing can cross over into the real world with devastating effects.
If I remember rightly in the RAWK user case it was traced back to some dodgy e-mail account in Colorado This is not the case with me, my E-mail account is registered in my name.
I'm not sure as to what level of stalking Yorkykopite has suffered in the past but I wont add to his worries and I will say I'm not here to cause him any harm.

Now to the point Cockboy What you accused me of last night Is as far as I know a criminal offense but it also had all the hallmarks of a classic smear, make me out to be some kind of weird, demented, dangerous stalker...nice
A fine way to shut down a opinion if you don't agree with it.
Now it might just be about you defending your friend which is admirable btw, in which case well done, academic principles shouldn't stop you from defending your family and friends. 
However I think we both know it isn't just a case of you leaping to the defense of Yorkiekopite and playing the hero. Its also about you having your ego bruised, its also about you banging the same drum to the same beat and you don't like that hence the sh*thouse tactic.

BTW
 Its the same beat I heard when I was a child and youth and its the same kind of people marching to that beat, only then. It was the Irish who were the Terrorist, It was the Irish who murdered people, It was the Irish who planted bombs, It was the Irish who mistreated their women, It was the Irish who were been rounded up by the security services, It was the Irish who were been shot in the streets It was the Irish who were been tortured, It was the Irish who were been falsely imprisoned, It was the Irish who were held accountable for the actions of a few, It was the Irish who lost their Jobs, It was the Irish who were evicted from their homes
Now I don't know how old you are or whether you faced any of this persecution yourself although I suspect you never did been in the relative safety of Cork.
But let me tell you this It will be the Irish again, it might not be in this generation it might be your Children or even your Grandchildren but let me tell you when it comes they will be marching to the same Beat of the Drum that you and Yorkkopite like to bang out.

In regards to your invitation for me to censure myself I'll accept that because I believe self censorship to be the only effective form of censorship. Oh and it might spare your blushes the next time you exorcise your "Rights"
In relation to the "Right" to offend I don't have that "Right" nor do I have a automatic "Right" to take offense but I do have a universal Right to not offend and the universal Right to be not offended.

For all those who at least attempted to help me with my "Hitch" problem I thank you  my advice to her will be don't get involved with any online Hitchens thread. 

And with that I shall leave this thread for all my intellectual superiors to pat themselves on the back and trot out the "I may not agree with what he said but i'll defend" blah blah bullshit and leave you with one of Corkboys favorite vids   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2uzEM0ugY 
10min20 I nominate you Corkboy

[Xabi Gerrard]

  well said yorkyrawky! And top class usage of "leave britney alone"!

[Alan_X]

This is fantastic, btw - it's a short clip of his last public appearance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yr5OLePNlI. 

If you just give up your freedom, simply abandon your critical faculties, a world of idiotic bliss can be yours....

[Alan_X]

But is it a fair comparison ?

Honestly? No.

I’d stopped listening to the actual words of the lecture. But there are more ways than one of listening. I shut my eyes for a moment. The effect of that was curious. I seemed to see the fellow much better when I could only hear his voice.

It was a voice that sounded as if it could go on for a fortnight without stopping. It’s a ghastly thing, really, to have a sort of human barrel-organ shooting propaganda at you by the hour. The same thing over and over again. Hate, hate, hate. Let’s all get together and have a good hate. Over and over. It gives you the feeling that something has got inside your skull and is hammering down on your brain. But for a moment, with my eyes shut, I managed to turn the tables on him. I got inside his skull. It was a peculiar sensation. For about a second I was inside him, you might almost say I was him. At any rate, I felt what he was feeling.

I saw the vision that he was seeing. And it wasn’t at all the kind of vision that can be talked about. What he’s saying is merely that Hitler’s after us and we must all get together and have a good hate. Doesn’t go into details. Leaves it all respectable. But what he’s seeing is something quite different. It’s a picture of himself smashing people’s faces in with a spanner. Fascist faces, of course. I know that’s what he was seeing. It was what I saw myself for the second or two that I was inside him. Smash! Right in the middle! The bones cave in like an eggshell and what was a face a minute ago is just a great big blob of strawberry jam. Smash! There goes another! That’s what’s in his mind, waking and sleeping, and the more he thinks of it the more he likes it. And it’s all O.K. because the smashed faces belong to Fascists. You could hear all that in the tone of his voice.

But why? Likeliest explanation, because he’s scared. Every thinking person nowadays is stiff with fright. This is merely a chap who’s got sufficient foresight to be a little more frightened than the others. Hitler’s after us! Quick! Let’s all grab a spanner and get together, and perhaps if we smash in enough faces they won’t smash ours. Gang up, choose your Leader. Hitler’s black and Stalin’s white. But it might just as well be the other way about, because in the little chap’s mind both Hitler and Stalin are the same. Both mean spanners and smashed faces.

I don't really think anyone in this thread fits the bill.

[Corkboy]

Well, all of that resulted in me reading some Orwell I hadn't read before. So that's good.

[Yorkykopite]

Well, all of that resulted in me reading some Orwell I hadn't read before. So that's good.

Orwell is the greatest writer (in English) of the 20th century. It's not just what he thinks, it's the way he thinks. A model for all of us.

[bigbonedrawky]

Honestly? No.

I’d stopped listening to the actual words of the lecture. But there are more ways than one of listening. I shut my eyes for a moment. The effect of that was curious. I seemed to see the fellow much better when I could only hear his voice.

It was a voice that sounded as if it could go on for a fortnight without stopping. It’s a ghastly thing, really, to have a sort of human barrel-organ shooting propaganda at you by the hour. The same thing over and over again. Hate, hate, hate. Let’s all get together and have a good hate. Over and over. It gives you the feeling that something has got inside your skull and is hammering down on your brain. But for a moment, with my eyes shut, I managed to turn the tables on him. I got inside his skull. It was a peculiar sensation. For about a second I was inside him, you might almost say I was him. At any rate, I felt what he was feeling.

I saw the vision that he was seeing. And it wasn’t at all the kind of vision that can be talked about. What he’s saying is merely that Hitler’s after us and we must all get together and have a good hate. Doesn’t go into details. Leaves it all respectable. But what he’s seeing is something quite different. It’s a picture of himself smashing people’s faces in with a spanner. Fascist faces, of course. I know that’s what he was seeing. It was what I saw myself for the second or two that I was inside him. Smash! Right in the middle! The bones cave in like an eggshell and what was a face a minute ago is just a great big blob of strawberry jam. Smash! There goes another! That’s what’s in his mind, waking and sleeping, and the more he thinks of it the more he likes it. And it’s all O.K. because the smashed faces belong to Fascists. You could hear all that in the tone of his voice.

But why? Likeliest explanation, because he’s scared. Every thinking person nowadays is stiff with fright. This is merely a chap who’s got sufficient foresight to be a little more frightened than the others. Hitler’s after us! Quick! Let’s all grab a spanner and get together, and perhaps if we smash in enough faces they won’t smash ours. Gang up, choose your Leader. Hitler’s black and Stalin’s white. But it might just as well be the other way about, because in the little chap’s mind both Hitler and Stalin are the same. Both mean spanners and smashed faces.

I don't really think anyone in this thread fits the bill.

Fair enough

On a related note I believe the Speaker is refered to as Mr So and So and while googling it i noticed this http://www.thefreedictionary.com/so-and-so
So now i'm thinking me referring to yorkykopite as "mr so and so" might just of been taken the wrong way.   
to me it means "i forget his name" but it can mean something a whole lot worse.
 
ps I also found this: http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/ComeingUpforAir/3_1.html

'insensible to beauty’

[Twelfth Man]

Orwell is the greatest writer (in English) of the 20th century. It's not just what he thinks, it's the way he thinks. A model for all of us.

Only read a handful of his novels, all excellent. Bought his four volumes of essays a few years back, brilliant stuff. A crime that they were not available in the UK and I had to get them shipped in from USA.

[Alan_X]

Only read a handful of his novels, all excellent. Bought his four volumes of essays a few years back, brilliant stuff. A crime that they were not available in the UK and I had to get them shipped in from USA.

His essays are available here and also on line. Some of the best political writing ever.

http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/index.html


This, from 'A Hanging' is one of his best:

It was about forty yards to the gallows. I watched the bare brown back of the prisoner marching in front of me. He walked clumsily with his bound arms, but quite steadily, with that bobbing gait of the Indian who never straightens his knees. At each step his muscles slid neatly into place, the lock of hair on his scalp danced up and down, his feet printed themselves on the wet gravel. And once, in spite of the men who gripped him by each shoulder, he stepped slightly aside to avoid a puddle on the path.

It is curious, but till that moment I had never realized what it means to destroy a healthy, conscious man. When I saw the prisoner step aside to avoid the puddle, I saw the mystery, the unspeakable wrongness, of cutting a life short when it is in full tide. This man was not dying, he was alive just as we were alive. All the organs of his body were working—bowels digesting food, skin renewing itself, nails growing, tissues forming—all toiling away in solemn foolery. His nails would still be growing when he stood on the drop, when he was falling through the air with a tenth of a second to live. His eyes saw the yellow gravel and the grey walls, and his brain still remembered, foresaw, reasoned—reasoned even about puddles. He and we were a party of men walking together, seeing, hearing, feeling, understanding the same world; and in two minutes, with a sudden snap, one of us would be gone—one mind less, one world less.

http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/essay/ShootingElephant/hanging.html

[chilongooner]

His essays are available here and also on line. Some of the best political writing ever.

http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/index.html


This, from 'A Hanging' is one of his best:

It was about forty yards to the gallows. I watched the bare brown back of the prisoner marching in front of me. He walked clumsily with his bound arms, but quite steadily, with that bobbing gait of the Indian who never straightens his knees. At each step his muscles slid neatly into place, the lock of hair on his scalp danced up and down, his feet printed themselves on the wet gravel. And once, in spite of the men who gripped him by each shoulder, he stepped slightly aside to avoid a puddle on the path.

It is curious, but till that moment I had never realized what it means to destroy a healthy, conscious man. When I saw the prisoner step aside to avoid the puddle, I saw the mystery, the unspeakable wrongness, of cutting a life short when it is in full tide. This man was not dying, he was alive just as we were alive. All the organs of his body were working—bowels digesting food, skin renewing itself, nails growing, tissues forming—all toiling away in solemn foolery. His nails would still be growing when he stood on the drop, when he was falling through the air with a tenth of a second to live. His eyes saw the yellow gravel and the grey walls, and his brain still remembered, foresaw, reasoned—reasoned even about puddles. He and we were a party of men walking together, seeing, hearing, feeling, understanding the same world; and in two minutes, with a sudden snap, one of us would be gone—one mind less, one world less.

http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/essay/ShootingElephant/hanging.html

Politics and the English Language is one of the best essays ever written:

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

[Alan_X]

Politics and the English Language is one of the best essays ever written:

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm

Absolutely.

[Twelfth Man]

His essays are available here and also on line. Some of the best political writing ever.

http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/index.html


This, from 'A Hanging' is one of his best:

It was about forty yards to the gallows. I watched the bare brown back of the prisoner marching in front of me. He walked clumsily with his bound arms, but quite steadily, with that bobbing gait of the Indian who never straightens his knees. At each step his muscles slid neatly into place, the lock of hair on his scalp danced up and down, his feet printed themselves on the wet gravel. And once, in spite of the men who gripped him by each shoulder, he stepped slightly aside to avoid a puddle on the path.

It is curious, but till that moment I had never realized what it means to destroy a healthy, conscious man. When I saw the prisoner step aside to avoid the puddle, I saw the mystery, the unspeakable wrongness, of cutting a life short when it is in full tide. This man was not dying, he was alive just as we were alive. All the organs of his body were working—bowels digesting food, skin renewing itself, nails growing, tissues forming—all toiling away in solemn foolery. His nails would still be growing when he stood on the drop, when he was falling through the air with a tenth of a second to live. His eyes saw the yellow gravel and the grey walls, and his brain still remembered, foresaw, reasoned—reasoned even about puddles. He and we were a party of men walking together, seeing, hearing, feeling, understanding the same world; and in two minutes, with a sudden snap, one of us would be gone—one mind less, one world less.

http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/essay/ShootingElephant/hanging.html

Cheers. Sadly all my book shopping migrated to that online behemoth a while back. The four volumes were going for ridiculous money on the marketplace thing. Oh the days of having a nice browse around a bookshop, discovering an unexpected gem or two.
 
Great passage that, extrapolating such a powerful defence against capital punishment, from the simple act of avoiding a puddle. Love the simplicity and economy of his prose, it just flows of the page.

[chilongooner]

Cheers. Sadly all my book shopping migrated to that online behemoth a while back.

Project Gutenberg?

[Twelfth Man]

Project Gutenberg?

Amazon.co.uk...

[saoirse08]

His essays are available here and also on line. Some of the best political writing ever.

http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/index.html


This, from 'A Hanging' is one of his best:

It was about forty yards to the gallows. I watched the bare brown back of the prisoner marching in front of me. He walked clumsily with his bound arms, but quite steadily, with that bobbing gait of the Indian who never straightens his knees. At each step his muscles slid neatly into place, the lock of hair on his scalp danced up and down, his feet printed themselves on the wet gravel. And once, in spite of the men who gripped him by each shoulder, he stepped slightly aside to avoid a puddle on the path.

It is curious, but till that moment I had never realized what it means to destroy a healthy, conscious man. When I saw the prisoner step aside to avoid the puddle, I saw the mystery, the unspeakable wrongness, of cutting a life short when it is in full tide. This man was not dying, he was alive just as we were alive. All the organs of his body were working—bowels digesting food, skin renewing itself, nails growing, tissues forming—all toiling away in solemn foolery. His nails would still be growing when he stood on the drop, when he was falling through the air with a tenth of a second to live. His eyes saw the yellow gravel and the grey walls, and his brain still remembered, foresaw, reasoned—reasoned even about puddles. He and we were a party of men walking together, seeing, hearing, feeling, understanding the same world; and in two minutes, with a sudden snap, one of us would be gone—one mind less, one world less.

http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/essay/ShootingElephant/hanging.html

Tremendous writing. Years since I've read Shooting The Elephant. Need to dig out my old battered Orwell paperbacks.

And I think 'solemn foolery' is a near perfect phrase.

[Yorkykopite]

And I think 'solemn foolery' is a near perfect phrase.

Just what I thought too.

[Yorkykopite]

I come at Hitchens from a different angle. I don't think he's wrong on Iraq, but I think he is harsh on religion. That's coming from an agnostic with deist tendencies, which I think probably describes him too.

Hardly! He was an out and out atheist.

[saoirse08]

Who admitted there was no way of knowing and said he couldn't live without Donne, Herbert etc.

Anyway, probably a trivial point. More important was the beautiful eloquence he had. Sadly missed.

I'm an atheist, too, and I think life my life without experiencing the work Blake or Milton wouldn't be the same either.   

[Alan_X]

Who admitted there was no way of knowing and said he couldn't live without Donne, Herbert etc.

Anyway, probably a trivial point. More important was the beautiful eloquence he had. Sadly missed.

The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.

- Christopher Hitchens

As for loving Donne and Herbert. So what. One of my favourite pieces of music is Mozart's Mass. It's wonderful, but it was written by a man.

We have a need for what I would call 'the transcendent' or 'the numinous' or even 'the ecstatic,' which comes out in love and music, poetry, and landscape. I wouldn't trust anyone who didn't respond to things of that sort. But I think the cultural task is to separate those impulses and those needs and desires from the supernatural and, above all, from the superstitious.

- Christopher Hitchens