Author Topic: Dani Pacheco  (Read 211885 times)

Offline Fromola

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #320 on: July 15, 2013, 07:01:04 pm »
I wonder if these two quotes are related by a third variable - that most of us only get to watch the games on TV.  I've consistently felt the same as the first quote - somewhat confused by the fact that 7+ managers have passed Pacheco over for players that were quite frankly, in many cases, utter dreck - particularly when Pacheco never looked too bad when given half a chance.  However, given PoP's statement in the Stewart Downing thread that Pacheco has a tendency to "switch off" I realized how difficult it is to really assess the full game of a wing player given the way the game is shot for television.  When Pacheco is involved he's on camera and he looks fine.  But when he's uninvolved he's often off camera and it's thus impossible for a home viewer to know what the hell he's doing.  Is he doing something useful to create space or opportunities?  Or is he standing around ball watching?   

A lot of players switch off in games, particularly wide players. Even world-class players go missing. Charlie Adam was in our team for the best part of a season and he was out the game after an hour he was so fucked. Jovanavic never switched on never mind switched off. Joe Cole - who kept getting plenty of chances last season - was on his knees out of breath after 10 minutes. Shelvey usually played the game for us like he'd just woke up 10 minutes before kick off.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #321 on: July 15, 2013, 07:03:06 pm »
A lot of players switch off in games, particularly wide players. Even world-class players go missing. Charlie Adam was in our team for the best part of a season and he was out the game after an hour he was so fucked. Jovanavic never switched on never mind switched off. Joe Cole - who kept getting plenty of chances last season - was on his knees out of breath after 10 minutes. Shelvey usually played the game for us like he'd just woke up 10 minutes before kick off.

And all of those players are no longer at the club, because you can't be a top level player with low level concentration. If Pacheco can sort his concentration out, his talent will become very valuable. But reliability beats ability if ability is inconsistent.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #322 on: July 15, 2013, 07:21:14 pm »
And all of those players are no longer at the club, because you can't be a top level player with low level concentration. If Pacheco can sort his concentration out, his talent will become very valuable. But reliability beats ability if ability is inconsistent.

Can't gainsay that, especially the part in bold.

I was only half-joking about Pacheco needing to model himself after Lucas and to do whatever he tells him to do, both on the pitch as well as off the pitch. If Dr. Peters helped Lucas, he will help Pacheco. I know the issues are different but I am aiming at saving Pacheco's career at LFC or even elsewhere. Nuance and fine understanding may not be what's necessary. Go see Dr. Peters, Dani. Don't ask why, just do it. Let him help you. Follow religiously what he advises you to do. Rinse, lather, repeat.

 :wave
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Offline Wingman

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #323 on: July 15, 2013, 07:59:47 pm »
.... it beggars belief that LFC have neither found a way to sell him .....

How is it the club's fault he's not been sold?

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #324 on: July 15, 2013, 08:26:34 pm »
How is it the club's fault he's not been sold?

Whose duty is it to sell an 'asset' that is under-performing? The asset's?
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Offline Dale Doback

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #325 on: July 15, 2013, 08:30:34 pm »
Whose duty is it to sell an 'asset' that is under-performing? The asset's?
Usually for you to sell something, there has to be a buyer

Offline B0151?

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #326 on: July 15, 2013, 08:31:28 pm »
Whose duty is it to sell an 'asset' that is under-performing? The asset's?

I'm sure there are ways Dani could make a sale more likely to happen.

And yes, even if he did sign his contract years ago, he's probably on way more than he would be in Spain

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #327 on: July 15, 2013, 08:38:58 pm »
Usually for you to sell something, there has to be a buyer

Ok. No club, anywhere in Europe, was interested in getting Pacheco on a free, after LFC paid off the rest of the contract to Pacheco.

Right. That's what happened. He's THAT bad. We found buyers for effing Degen and Konchesky and Poulsen and Jovanovic and El Zhar and Plessis and Nemeth but we couldn't do a deal involving Pacheco. At his low, by English standards, wages.

I get it now.
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Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #328 on: July 15, 2013, 08:40:09 pm »
I'm sure there are ways Dani could make a sale more likely to happen.

And yes, even if he did sign his contract years ago, he's probably on way more than he would be in Spain

What is your point, though? What do you know, specifics, about how Pacheco did or did not make a sale more likely to happen?

Are people seriously begrudging Pacheco HIS wages? Seriously?
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Offline GODS LEFT BOOT

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #329 on: July 15, 2013, 08:41:08 pm »
 The lad will end up getting a testimonial.
If my assistant had not signalled a goal, I would have given a penalty and sent off goalkeeper Patr Cheh. he beeped me to signal the foul. The noise from the crowd  stopped me hearing it, I have been involved at places like Barcelona, Ibrox, Old Trafford, Arsenal, but I've never in my life been involved in such an atmosphere. IT WAS INCREDIBLE

Offline B0151?

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #330 on: July 15, 2013, 08:52:32 pm »
What is your point, though? What do you know, specifics, about how Pacheco did or did not make a sale more likely to happen?

Are people seriously begrudging Pacheco HIS wages? Seriously?

What is YOUR point? Or are you just finding something to moan about because it's offseason? Why are you begrudging the club for the fact that no-one wants to buy Pacheco? How is it the clubs responsibility for his future career? They'd love to get him off the wage bill I imagine, so don't come with that "what do you know" shite when you don't know fuck all either. You don't know what the club has tried to do in regards to moving him on so please just stop.

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #331 on: July 15, 2013, 10:49:19 pm »
What is YOUR point? Or are you just finding something to moan about because it's offseason? Why are you begrudging the club for the fact that no-one wants to buy Pacheco? How is it the clubs responsibility for his future career? They'd love to get him off the wage bill I imagine, so don't come with that "what do you know" shite when you don't know fuck all either. You don't know what the club has tried to do in regards to moving him on so please just stop.

I am not begrudging anything. I was responding to other people's arguments.

As I didn't make any claims about what the club did or did not do with regard to Pacheco (I only took my interlocutor's points and brought them to their logical conclusion), I am under no obligation to know anything of the sort. YOU claimed you knew what we did, and that we failed to find a willing buyer for Pacheco.

Precisely because Pacheco is on such low wages by English standards, our incentive to get him off the wage bill is that much lower. On the other hand, our ability to find a buyer for him and, if necessary, to pay off the remainder of his contract (as we apparently did with the Koncheskys and Degens etc previously on our wage bill) is that much better.

Finally, if my posts are so annoying, then by all means give them a wide berth or put me on ignore.
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Offline ElstonGunn

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #332 on: July 15, 2013, 11:36:26 pm »
Here's the thing: I watched Pacheco look like a star in the ressies like everyone else. I watched him do well (though let's be honest, nothing more than that) in several preseasons and in his brief cameos. I got really excited when he made his Norwich debut. I watched Joe Cole suck up the joint and thought, on what planet is this has-been better than Dani? Hell, I still think Aquilani could've played a part for us.

But it's been clear for years now that it's not going to happen. It's just not. Who cares why?

Dani maybe could've been a decent squad player, but we've got better players than him now, and it's not going to happen anyway. It's just so fucking boring rehashing this same argument, based on just a few flashes of potential, that we've been having for years. It was a welcome relief when Aqua left, and I can't wait until Dani follows him. 

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #333 on: July 16, 2013, 12:14:14 am »
The thing with Dani is 4 Liverpool managers have looked at him, he has also played under 3 managers at other clubs, but nobody seems to really rate him that highly.  When he has played he has looked decent enough, perhaps there is something about how he trains, or how he is about the place, that puts them off.  A bit similar to Assaidi in a way, i.e. the manager(s) see something that puts them off that the fans are not seeing.

You'll not get far in this thread using reasoned logic mate.  Choose ya trench, jump in it and start lobbing shite over no-mans land at the pricks on the other side. 

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Offline horne

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #334 on: July 16, 2013, 12:57:41 am »
its a confidence thing surely......the lad had everyone excited until rafa left...hodgo comes in...northampton was a disaster....and he happened to be on the team sheet at the time....not his fault but ever since,on the few occasions he has played,he didnnt seem as relaxed and free flowing,the cockyness went from his game....ever since....everyones talking negatives about him....its got into his head,hes still a kid an all....so put yerself in his shoes....what would you be thinking....?.....hes in a rut and needs a break.....thankfully ,preseason may be a new fresh start for him...i really wish the kid well....there is no doubting his ability....he needs to gather confidence and belief in himself....he could do with gelling with a few technical players around him and the rest will come
he needs to make every look at him and think....how can we leave him out...just like coutinhio
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Offline liverbnz

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #335 on: July 16, 2013, 01:01:07 am »
Who have Pacheco such a long contract? I'm guessing it was Purslow in 2010 but that doesn't quite make sense.
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Offline zabadoh

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #336 on: July 16, 2013, 06:15:07 am »
Why wasn't he the best player in Spain last season?

For what it's worth, the SD Huesca fans in a Spanish forum liked him and consistently wanted him in their starting 11 every week he was there.

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Offline Dale Doback

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #337 on: July 16, 2013, 07:18:34 am »
For what it's worth, the SD Huesca fans in a Spanish forum liked him and consistently wanted him in their starting 11 every week he was there.
By that logic Spearing should easily be staying. POTY for Bolton. Didn't Huesca get relegated from the Second Division? Meaning they are like a League 1/2 team.

Offline Wrigley

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #338 on: July 16, 2013, 09:21:07 am »
Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity"), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin: argument to absurdity), is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial,[1] or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance. First appearing in classical Greek philosophy (the Latin term derives from the Greek "εις άτοπον επαγωγή" or eis atopon epagoge, "reduction to the impossible", for example in Aristotle's Prior Analytics),[1] this technique has been used throughout history in both formal mathematical and philosophical reasoning, as well as informal debate.
The "absurd" conclusion of a reductio ad absurdum argument can take a range of forms:
Rocks have weight, otherwise we would see them floating in the air.
Society must have laws, otherwise there would be chaos.
There is no smallest positive rational number, because if there were, it could be divided by two to get a smaller one.
The first example above argues that the denial of the assertion would have a ridiculous result, against the evidence of our senses. The second argues that the denial would have an untenable result: unacceptable, unworkable or unpleasant for society. The third is a mathematical proof by contradiction, arguing that the denial of the assertion would result in a contradiction (there is a smallest rational number and yet there is a rational number smaller than it).



If everyone used this Religiously this debate would be 2/3 pages and a conclusion.
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Offline Il Capitano

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #339 on: July 16, 2013, 09:34:28 am »
You'll not get far in this thread using reasoned logic mate.  Choose ya trench, jump in it and start lobbing shite over no-mans land at the pricks on the other side.

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Offline MOZ

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #340 on: July 16, 2013, 10:01:01 am »
Dani did impress at Huesca playing in a rather rigid system. Jorge D’Alessandro is not the most exciting Coach in Spain but he did allow Pacheco a little creative freedom and he did enough to start 17 games while on loan and was only subbed 3 times.

He scored 5 goals in those 17 starts which is not bad in a team that work on a miniscule budget and have struggled offensively this year due to the brand of football they have played. Top scorer, Borja (also on loan) scored 9 in 30 starts and Tariq Spezie managed 7 in 30.

He seemed comfortable at Segunda level and would have probably benefitted from a more adventurous system. I have had the misfortune of witnessing D'Alessandros dire brand of football live a few times when he was at Nastic (he got them relegated as well) and it is not a good reflection of the technicality of the Segunda.

However, the 17 starts he got must have increased his sharpness and game awareness and he now needs to translate that into pre-season for Liverpool and who knows he might just move on to a level where he can be useful for us. If anything, the loan spell may have made Dani realise that he still has a lot of work to do to bridge the gulf from being a great player at youth, reserve and Segunda level to being in the Liverpool first team.
 
A lot has been talked about his attitude and work ethic and Sandoval did question this when he was at Rayo when he stated: "it’s important that a player knows where he is. He’s at Rayo now, he has to work like a Rayo player. If not, then you won’t play. So we're working a lot with him on a psychological level and getting over to him what the spirit of Rayo Vallecano is, as he needs to identify himself with the badge. Even if you have a lot of quality, if you don’t play the way I want then you aren’t going to be included."

Sandovals comments seemed to hit home the message that you have to have the attitude as well as the quality and this is something that Rodgers has also stressed about his players in general. That was more than 18 months ago and he has worked really hard since then to show he has the right mentality; in fact, his attitude was never questioned at Huesca.

There was a lot expected of Dani at a young age and he may have fallen into the trap of believing his own hype a couple of years ago. Thats not the case now and his loan spells have been an important grounding exercise for him. The next few weeks are going to be really important and I think Rodgers will take one last look at him and then a decision will be made.

Buena suerte crack!

« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 10:02:43 am by MOZ »

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #341 on: July 16, 2013, 10:08:59 am »
You'll not get far in this thread using reasoned logic mate.  Choose ya trench, jump in it and start lobbing shite over no-mans land at the pricks on the other side. 



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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #342 on: July 16, 2013, 10:12:33 am »
Would let dani go to another club
He won't make it at lfc


You mean us signing Sturridge, Borini, Coutinho, Aspas and Alberto could limit his chances? Hmmm, I think you are right.

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Re: Dani Pacheco
« Reply #343 on: September 14, 2013, 01:15:31 am »
No-one expects the Spanish 2nd division!

Must, try, to , remember, this.

In Barcelona next week, if i can get this into a convo i'll be well fucking impressed...
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