Author Topic: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?  (Read 106748 times)

Offline cloggypop

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Offline The Last Known Survivor

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Myself and my father were talking to one off his friends about some land he had planted with trees and how he had to get a licence to cut them down. Later I was using my phone and there was an add for a forestry company who will plant trees on your land. I have never looked up anything to do with forestry ever!  Second time I have noticed something like this. Confirmation bias or what?

Offline Skidder.

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Fucking hell.

Google search suggestions and instant search results are based on recent searches by other people. If there's a documentary has been on TV then it's a fair shout that other people will have then been searching for topics covered in a documentary and that's where your search suggestion comes from.

Not buying that at all. Don't doubt it happens/happened, but this is happening far too often.
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Offline CraigDS

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OMG I am drinking a gin and just had a FB ad for gin come up.

I'm in on my own so not spoken about gin to anyone so I can only assume FB are monitoring my tastebuds  :no

Online rob1966

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Fucking hell.

Google search suggestions and instant search results are based on recent searches by other people. If there's a documentary has been on TV then it's a fair shout that other people will have then been searching for topics covered in a documentary and that's where your search suggestion comes from.



 

If it was on a mainstream channel I'd buy that, but it was on one of these obscure channels on Virgin,Eden or something, it's Sunday afternoon, the documentary was on the shark and the Indianapolis was only mentioned at the start. The programme had only been on about 5 minutes when the talked about the boat and I went straight on Google as soon as it was mentioned.
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Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #285 on: February 12, 2017, 09:38:49 am »
Big Brother is listening......

My job is in search marketing, I consult with and sell individual services to businesses.

Googles' whole business model is to generate more and more revenues from selling adspace on a per click basis, they provide the worlds biggest search engine but place paid for listings in prime position to encourage clicks for the business and therefore revenues for Google each time this is done, around 16% of all searchers will click on a paid for ad(ppc). Its not hard to see how Google makes so much cash globally with over 3 billion searches per day made.....

One thing Google clearly knows and understands is your online history, this is understood through 'listening' which in real terms is the monitoring of internet behaviour.

Google listens and captures all relevant data, it knows your search history, browsing history and interests based on the sites you visit, this is where a strong targeted ad campaign can work.

When Google understands this data for a user it can also assume your age/location/sex/interests based on your activity.

So as an example, if you are 25, Male, live in Liverpool and are football, music and fashion crazy, Google knows this. What Google then does is sell the fact to business that its targeted Ads/Remarketing/Display can tap into the right audience and generate success by only placing the right type of ads in front of the right type of people.

Can you imagine what a failure Google would be if it wasnt for smart use of this data, businesses would reject the platform whereas the opposite is true, basically as a business you can set up your ad campaign with Google to target specific and tightly detailed users, based on demographic/location/interests.

If you dont want Google to know so much granular detail about you the individual, then log out of your account!

I stopped using GOOGLE some time ago.

I use Duck Duck Go    :)

https://duckduckgo.com/about

Online Alan_X

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #286 on: February 14, 2017, 07:36:22 am »
They have you on 'ignore', Mr X - some of your many and vivid conspiracy theories in real life are just too close to the truth... (even for the bods at the mass surveillance dept)

You're probably right - they know I'm skeptical and use evidence and critical thinking rather than anecdote and confirmation bias - so they're deliberately not doing it to me so I don't have the evidence that would blow the whole thing wide open...

The absence of evidence is clear proof that they are doing it...

(or something...)
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Online Alan_X

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #287 on: February 14, 2017, 07:38:18 am »
OMG I am drinking a gin and just had a FB ad for gin come up.

I'm in on my own so not spoken about gin to anyone so I can only assume FB are monitoring my tastebuds  :no

They can monitor the sound of the glugging and tell whether its beer, spirits and what kind of spirit... everyone knows that.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
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Offline ToneLa

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #288 on: February 16, 2017, 04:27:18 pm »
Do you tell the truth to your devices?  ;D

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #289 on: February 17, 2017, 01:13:23 am »
I stopped using GOOGLE some time ago.

I use Duck Duck Go    :)

https://duckduckgo.com/about

Duck and Go is by far the best search engine that you can use - I uninstalled the vast majority of Google-related apps and use third-party apps for social networking. Have since noticed a veritable dip in all the bullshit advertising - Folio Pro for Facebook and also have a third-party firewall. All since the changes I made after I first created this thread - I still use google/pc to search for what I want or what I'm interested in, and as I have said, no more strangely targeted advertising.

Truth is though, as I've said, the big three employ far cleverer and smarter people than anyone on this here forum - if they were having their cake and eating it, they'd be sure us imbeciles wouldn't be able to see the crumbs. Has anyone installed Whatsapp recently? There's a big fat paragraph in their terms and conditions that clearly asks you to opt-in for using your information. Also, for anyone wanting to not throw caution to the wind - Facebook messenger is also said to report back to mother on your most used words.

Another interesting article that was posted on another forum that I go on:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/facebook-using-people-s-phones-to-listen-in-on-what-they-re-saying-claims-professor-a7057526.html

Anyone expecting any kind of redeemable evidence that the common person can understand, needs to lay off the sauce for a bit - "They're" smarter, better financed and far too educated for that.

In addition - anyone new to the thread should read back from page 1 and read some of the earlier comments and/or links posted - will give a fuller flavour of the timeline and reason for this thread with some light reading and articles from respected news outlets/journos/websites. There are some newsjacking articles about this out there that will offer you "spyware killing" software to stop all this spying - my advice would be to steer clear from them and stick to the respected articles/journalists/stories. As the vast majority of people on this thread have said - cicumstancial or not - there are more and more reports of similar happenings on all corners of the internet and as unbelievable as it is to individuals, there is evidence that this can be done, and vocal commands (Siri, OkGoogle, Samsung Smart Tech), vocal commands is the way it is all going - it may well be that one day, Keyboards will be seen as an old tech (like trackball), and where would search history, keylogging etc. be then? But of course, that would take a good degree of creative and imaginative thinking -- we'll see I guess, time will tell and I'm sure this thread will still be going strong right up until that day.

OMG I am drinking a gin and just had a FB ad for gin come up.

I'm in on my own so not spoken about gin to anyone so I can only assume FB are monitoring my tastebuds  :no

May have heard you drunkedly rambling utter muttered nonsense and put one and two together Craig.

Either that or your phone smelled it on your breath. :lmao

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 02:10:41 am by Kidder. »
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Online Alan_X

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #290 on: February 17, 2017, 07:32:38 am »
Duck and Go is by far the best search engine that you can use - I uninstalled the vast majority of Google-related apps and use third-party apps for social networking. Have since noticed a veritable dip in all the bullshit advertising - Folio Pro for Facebook and also have a third-party firewall. All since the changes I made after I first created this thread - I still use google/pc to search for what I want or what I'm interested in, and as I have said, no more strangely targeted advertising.

Truth is though, as I've said, the big three employ far cleverer and smarter people than anyone on this here forum - if they were having their cake and eating it, they'd be sure us imbeciles wouldn't be able to see the crumbs. Has anyone installed Whatsapp recently? There's a big fat paragraph in their terms and conditions that clearly asks you to opt-in for using your information. Also, for anyone wanting to not throw caution to the wind - Facebook messenger is also said to report back to mother on your most used words.

Another interesting article that was posted on another forum that I go on:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/facebook-using-people-s-phones-to-listen-in-on-what-they-re-saying-claims-professor-a7057526.html

Anyone expecting any kind of redeemable evidence that the common person can understand, needs to lay off the sauce for a bit - "They're" smarter, better financed and far too educated for that.

In addition - anyone new to the thread should read back from page 1 and read some of the earlier comments and/or links posted - will give a fuller flavour of the timeline and reason for this thread with some light reading and articles from respected news outlets/journos/websites. There are some newsjacking articles about this out there that will offer you "spyware killing" software to stop all this spying - my advice would be to steer clear from them and stick to the respected articles/journalists/stories. As the vast majority of people on this thread have said - cicumstancial or not - there are more and more reports of similar happenings on all corners of the internet and as unbelievable as it is to individuals, there is evidence that this can be done, and vocal commands (Siri, OkGoogle, Samsung Smart Tech), vocal commands is the way it is all going - it may well be that one day, Keyboards will be seen as an old tech (like trackball), and where would search history, keylogging etc. be then? But of course, that would take a good degree of creative and imaginative thinking -- we'll see I guess, time will tell and I'm sure this thread will still be going strong right up until that day.

May have heard you drunkedly rambling utter muttered nonsense and put one and two together Craig.

Either that or your phone smelled it on your breath. :lmao



That was posted a year ago:

Yes, Google is listening.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/google-voice-search-records-and-stores-conversation-people-have-around-their-phones-but-files-can-be-a7059376.html
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
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Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #291 on: February 17, 2017, 10:52:06 am »
Oh so you are listening.  ;D
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Offline B0151?

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #292 on: February 17, 2017, 11:17:13 am »
I never get, or at least notice, any advertising at all. I'm not trying to show off  ;D I'm sure you've all heard of AdBlock, so this thread has always confused me a bit??

I suppose I don't have AdBlock on my phone, but I think I just tune ads out anyway. I don't understand how it can bother people so much. Maybe it's just having grown up on the internet, ignoring them is second nature to me. It's interesting.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 11:21:54 am by Bakez0151 »

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #293 on: February 17, 2017, 11:49:06 am »
Who knows?

By the looks of things, it appears 49/49% people who come on here either have had similar experiences, or  not - confirmation bias, conspiracy theory syndrome, over-imaginative mind... choose your platitude.

At the end of the day, it is schisms of belief. Either you can believe it, or you can't - I realise that is a platitude in itself; however, I have seen enough evidence to suggest to me that it is possible for a device to link your hotwords to your targeted advertising. I remember first hearing about targeted advertising back in 2000 (or thereabouts) and thinking it was hokey cokey. The idea that your PC/Windows had the ability to look at your browsing history in order to find your patterns of behavior, in order to pre-empt your shopping habits seemed absurd to me. A few years down the line I experienced Spyware and Gamespy (which as we all know, had the side-load of cracking down on piracy), then Skype, Kazaa, Smartphones, 1 Gig HDD's...

I remember that phone (I can't remember the model) that introduced voice dialing and couldn't get my head around how it could differentiate between my Dad's voice and mine.

It seemed as though every day, there was some 'new' tech to surprise and capture the imagination. Take me back to then, and voice recognition, facial recognition, 3-D, internet dating would all have been like something out of X-Files to me.

I am no longer surprised nor mystified at anything; and maybe that is a choice... But what bothers me is that 'it' will never stop and for each person who creates something around the latest tech, who means good, there will be three other people who want to use it for greed, profit and power. This is happening and no-one will convince me otherwise, and as ridiculous as it may sound to some - it is a ridiculous to me that people can't see how this tech can and will be misused to garner a profit. As paranoid as it sounds, I like my thoughts and intentions to be mine and mine alone - if I speak to a friend about something that I want or need - I don't want some shlock half-way accross the world capitlising on being able to predict or pre-empt those wants or needs.

It is akin to cold calling for me - I hate it when I am called by PPI companies and I loathe telesales; I'm by no means obsessed or does it impede on my life; but I've attended enough informed consent, privacy and information governance training sessions to know that if there's a buck to me made from your information, there will always be someone there willing and able to buy it. 

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 11:53:12 am by Kidder. »
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Offline cloggypop

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Offline ToneLa

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #295 on: February 17, 2017, 01:12:40 pm »
Still waiting for news on these smart power meters monitoring your audible conversations :)

Offline BRdispatch05

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #296 on: February 17, 2017, 01:18:46 pm »
I searched for a cat tower once about 4 months ago. 70% of ads on every site I visit now are cat towers.

Stahp. For the love of God, I found my cat tower.
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Offline cloggypop

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #297 on: February 17, 2017, 02:03:33 pm »
You'll only get more if you keep going on about them.

Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #298 on: February 28, 2017, 04:36:18 pm »
This has been bubbling around for a while and is interesting... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39115001
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

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Offline cloggypop

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #299 on: February 28, 2017, 04:51:53 pm »
This has been bubbling around for a while and is interesting... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39115001
Have you seen Spiral Toys share price today?


Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #300 on: February 28, 2017, 06:03:12 pm »

Yes, and quite rightly so.

It appears the toys are being heavily discounted now, almost being given away, so I'm idly pondering how the inner technology could be re-purposed....obviously for purely above board use...

As for this 'consent' business that people often blindly click on when they accept these sort of things, it reminds me of a friend who used to write shareware 20 or so years ago and in his install pop up box was the usual legalistic stuff but tucked away towards the end where no one ever bothered to scroll down to, where lines saying things like "by accepting this, I agree to the harvesting of my body parts for animal feed". Despite thousands of downloads of his software, no one ever came back to him and queried any of it.

It would appear that in their consumerism rush to 'must have' the latest shiny gizmo, many people sometimes just don't think through the consequences of much of this technology and how it may well be engineered under the hood for a very different purpose to what they think it is for.
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #301 on: February 28, 2017, 08:07:09 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39103150

Since the car manufacturer knows your speed and location, that data could be provided to insurance companies or other interested parties and that could be correlated to say speed limits.... all possibly even without your explicit approval...

It will be interesting to see how this argument over who controls the data and access to it develops.
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #302 on: February 28, 2017, 09:15:19 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39103150

Since the car manufacturer knows your speed and location, that data could be provided to insurance companies or other interested parties and that could be correlated to say speed limits.... all possibly even without your explicit approval...

It will be interesting to see how this argument over who controls the data and access to it develops.
I actually had something like that offered to me a few years ago when I changed insurance companies and they were offering a safe driver discount (under the nicer name "Snapshot". They provide a device that plugs into the vehicle diagnostic port and monitors braking habits, speed, times you drive, how often you drive, and location data. You use it for three months and they decide if you deserve a discount. I declined it as I knew my braking habits wouldn't get me the discount.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 09:17:30 pm by my last name. »

Offline Skidder.

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This has been bubbling around for a while and is interesting... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39115001

Holy fucking shit!
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Offline oojason

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« Last Edit: March 7, 2017, 10:36:13 pm by oojason »
.
Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

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Online rob1966

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I actually had something like that offered to me a few years ago when I changed insurance companies and they were offering a safe driver discount (under the nicer name "Snapshot". They provide a device that plugs into the vehicle diagnostic port and monitors braking habits, speed, times you drive, how often you drive, and location data. You use it for three months and they decide if you deserve a discount. I declined it as I knew my braking habits wouldn't get me the discount.

I was struggling to get insurance due to no NCB on a car (named on wifes, riding bikes) and one of the best I got offered was with Bell but fitting one of those telematics devices. I refused as I've been driving 30 odd years and wasn't prepared to be treated like a new driver.

One tool we do us is on Google maps, where you can see the speed of traffic from data collected from Android phones as people travel along roads.. The darker red the colour, the slower the traffic.
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Read this, basically, it's spot on:

https://m.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/08/cia_exploit_list_in_full/

Basically whatsapp is still encrypted;

Devices bought last year may not be

If you are American watch out

if you are a drug dealer you are a criminal anyway

the CIA have never been straight (LSD in the 60s)

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« Last Edit: March 9, 2017, 10:33:42 pm by ToneLa »

Offline jason67

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Wikileaks 'reveals CIA hacking tools':-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39193008

https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

&

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/07/cia-targeting-devices-smartphones-pc-tv-wikileaks

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/07/wikileaks_cia_cyber_spying_dump/ (worth a read of the comments section too)

I was speaking to somebody today and they were talking about this very subject. 

So since this was posted there seems to be a bit of a silence from our pro establishment posters on here.

Are there any developments that indicate that all is as it should be or are the above links credible?
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

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Offline Skidder.

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Don't be so quick Jason... Just logged in here specifically for this thread.

Okay, longish story - strange one... bear with me here.

I moved to Glasgow in 2013 and when I did, I installed the OkCupid dating app - I got speaking to a few girls on there and I met up with quite a few. One girl I met, reminded me of Helen Baxendale - we went out on two dates and just didn't really get along; passing ships, so on and so forth.

Anyhow - yesterday, I re-installed the dating app on a totally different phone and got talking to this girl, I don't think the conversation is related, but i mentioned about moving to Glasgow and the whole experience - yadi-ya-ya.

About 20 minutes ago, I logged into Facebook to see a message I got from a friend, read it, moved down and looked at the suggested friends bit. The first name, just stuck out to me as she had a strange name... Clicked on her profile and it is the girl that I dated in 2013 from Glasgow...

Edit: Spooky shit... even spookier... I have now had to click back on my browser because when I went to post the above post - I got 502 bad gateway.  >:(

Excuse me guys - I am going downstairs to get the tin foil.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 02:17:07 am by Kidder. »
Continually on 11,420.

Offline conman

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Don't be so quick Jason... Just logged in here specifically for this thread.

Okay, longish story - strange one... bear with me here.

I moved to Glasgow in 2013 and when I did, I installed the OkCupid dating app - I got speaking to a few girls on there and I met up with quite a few. One girl I met, reminded me of Helen Baxendale - we went out on two dates and just didn't really get along; passing ships, so on and so forth.

Anyhow - yesterday, I re-installed the dating app on a totally different phone and got talking to this girl, I don't think the conversation is related, but i mentioned about moving to Glasgow and the whole experience - yadi-ya-ya.

About 20 minutes ago, I logged into Facebook to see a message I got from a friend, read it, moved down and looked at the suggested friends bit. The first name, just stuck out to me as she had a strange name... Clicked on her profile and it is the girl that I dated in 2013 from Glasgow...

Edit: Spooky shit... even spookier... I have now had to click back on my browser because when I went to post the above post - I got 502 bad gateway.  >:(

Excuse me guys - I am going downstairs to get the tin foil.
Is your facebook connected to your okcupid?

Offline Skidder.

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No, but we spoke this morning and hers is - even still though, the login that I used this time around was not registered to the same e-mail address as the one that I am using this time around. Double checked this after she said, I used a hotmail one first time around and a gmail one this time around. Only other thing is that, they both have my name in them, so could be tracked via that?
Continually on 11,420.

Offline cloggypop

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The Facebook app on your phone gives itself a ridiculous amount of permissions. Uses a lot of battery life as well. I switched to an app called Metal myself on Android which basically gives you a nicer looking version of the browser page without all the permissions of the app. Since changing I haven't had one friend suggestion from my phone contacts or email contacts which was the main reason for wanting to change.

Offline Shady Craig

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The Facebook app on your phone gives itself a ridiculous amount of permissions. Uses a lot of battery life as well. I switched to an app called Metal myself on Android which basically gives you a nicer looking version of the browser page without all the permissions of the app. Since changing I haven't had one friend suggestion from my phone contacts or email contacts which was the main reason for wanting to change.
Downloaded that and will give it a go tomorrow [emoji106]

Offline cloggypop

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Downloaded that and will give it a go tomorrow [emoji106]
There's an alternative called Tin Foil!

The battery drain improvement is up to 20% from the official app as well though so well worth a go.

https://www.androidheadlines.com/2016/11/report-facebook-app-draining-20-of-android-battery-life.html
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 02:32:11 am by cloggypop »

Offline Graeme

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No, but we spoke this morning and hers is

:lmao

You actually got in touch with her 4 years after 2 dates because she's on your suggested Facebook friends?

Offline McrRed

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The Facebook app on your phone gives itself a ridiculous amount of permissions. Uses a lot of battery life as well. I switched to an app called Metal myself on Android which basically gives you a nicer looking version of the browser page without all the permissions of the app. Since changing I haven't had one friend suggestion from my phone contacts or email contacts which was the main reason for wanting to change.
A lot of people do not understand the permissions they give.

There was a story last year about a mum who's child photo had been used for an advertisement that she coincidentally saw. She was furious because she had her settings on private. However, she had shared it with people who's settings weren't private and therefore they were allowed to use the image.
She went to court and eventually got the permissions revoked.

Offline Skidder.

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:lmao

You actually got in touch with her 4 years after 2 dates because she's on your suggested Facebook friends?

Yeah - had to add her and explain the whole situation; she said she had been experiencing some strange happenings on her phone too. We actually got into a good chat about it and she came on over to this thread to give it a read.

Skills!

(Just kidding Z, in case you're still reading;D.

But no, in all seriousness, how anyone can deny that this is happening is... more bemusing to me than this whole thing... The potential for advertising goes beyond anything that is currently in place - a few well-paid dollars could get you a holding action of a particular set of words used in conjunction with cookies et al. in order to see what you are planning.

As I say, I just do not like the idea of some fatcat CEO making straps of wonga in targeted advertising from my dreams, goals and aspirations.

Has anyone gotten around the Facebook Messenger thing on mobile yet?
Continually on 11,420.

Offline Something Worse

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http://uk.businessinsider.com/people-are-freaked-out-that-unrollme-sold-email-data-to-uber-2017-4

Quote
Sorry not sorry.

That's the tone of the apology posted by Unroll.me, an email decluttering service which takes a look at the subscriptions clogging up your inbox and rolls them neatly into one digest email.

It turns out that Unroll.me also takes a peek at your other emails — like email receipts — anonymises that information, and then sells it on to third parties.

That's because Unroll.me is owned by Slice Intelligence, which makes money by selling data on customer loyalty. Your email receipts are a pretty good indicator of which services you use, and so Slice profits by selling that data on.

According to The New York Times, Slice analysed Lyft receipt data in Unroll.me users' inboxes, then sold that onto Uber. Slice confirmed that it collects both Uber and Lyft receipt data, but didn't say who it sells that information to.

Jojo Hedaya, CEO of Unroll.me, posted an apology to the Unroll.me blog on Sunday night which lots of people are describing as a non-apology.

He wrote that it was "heartbreaking" to see customers upset, but qualified this with: "Sure we have a Terms of Service Agreement and a plain-English Privacy Policy that our users agree they have read and understand before they even sign up, but the reality is most of us — myself included — don't take the time to thoroughly review them."

He promised "clearer messaging on our website, in our app, and in our FAQs. We will also be more clear about our data usage in our on-boarding process."

Sure, it seems like there's contrition in there, but angry customers see Hedaya's flagging of the "plain-English privacy policy" as a back-handed apology.

One wrote: "You have to be kidding right? You took my data and sold it to Uber and God knows who else ... you can take your 'apology' and shove it. It's people like you Jojo who make humanity look worse and worse every day."

Another wrote: "Oh Jojo. What a load of hand-in-the-cookie-jar bullshit this is. Your entire service — your entire reason for existence, as far as your cherished customers see it — exists solely, wholly for the purposes of reclaiming privacy and inbox peace and quiet. Yes, I bet it is heartbreaking that this information got out this way. Though I do have trouble believing your heart aches for us."

In Hedaya's defence, Unroll.me is pretty clear about selling on information in its privacy policy, but it's probable that a tiny fraction of users will have read it on signing up.

The policy says: "We may collect and use your commercial transactional messages and associated data to build anonymous market research products and services with trusted business partners."

Most people understand that there's no such thing as a free lunch. But Unroll.me could have made this much clearer. As one user put it: "Pretty simple solution. Just put "We read your email and sell the data we gather" in your signup form, then put the remainder of the explanation in your privacy policy.

"Anyone who reads the full privacy policy, understands what you're doing with their data and is cool with that, will be fine sticking with the service. Which in theory is everyone you want to sign up anyway."

Here's Unroll.me'sl apology:

Our users are the heart of our company and service. So it was heartbreaking to see that some of our users were upset to learn about how we monetize our free service.

And while we try our best to be open about our business model, recent customer feedback tells me we weren’t explicit enough.

Sure we have a Terms of Service Agreement and a plain-English Privacy Policy that our users agree they have read and understand before they even sign up, but the reality is most of us -
myself included - don't take the time to thoroughly review them.

So we need to do better for our users, and will from this point forward, with clearer messaging on our website, in our app, and in our FAQs. We will also be more clear about our data usage in our on-boarding process. The rest will remain the same: providing a killer service that gives you hours back in your day while protecting your privacy and security above all else.

I can't stress enough the importance of your privacy. We never, ever release personal data about you. All data is completely anonymous and related to purchases only. To get a sense of what this data looks like and how it is used, check out the Slice Intelligence blog.

Thank you for being such an important part of our company. If there's more we can be doing better, please let me know.
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

Hey Claus, fuck off.

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But no, in all seriousness, how anyone can deny that this is happening is...

That what is happening?

No one is denying that there is cross-sharing of data. I've no doubt my search patterns and interests are shared, probably because somewhere deep in the terms and conditions of something I use I've accidentally signed up to it.

What you started this thread with:

...Quite recently, I have noticed on three occasions how Google Chrome and Gmail seem to have targetted my computer with things that I have spoken about with friends or colleagues...

What does your Glasgow story have to do with that?

The capacity for data processing and the power of search algorithms is hard to comprehend now. But in order to get high quality outputs you need good quality inputs. Random words that may or may not be you overheard on an appliance that may or may not belong to you and could actually be from the radio or TV is not a great input.

If you want to start a new thread or rename this one feel free but could we focus on real issues not imaginary ones.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
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Offline oojason

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That what is happening?

No one is denying that there is cross-sharing of data. I've no doubt my search patterns and interests are shared, probably because somewhere deep in the terms and conditions of something I use I've accidentally signed up to it.

What you started this thread with:

What does your Glasgow story have to do with that?

The capacity for data processing and the power of search algorithms is hard to comprehend now. But in order to get high quality outputs you need good quality inputs. Random words that may or may not be you overheard on an appliance that may or may not belong to you and could actually be from the radio or TV is not a great input.

If you want to start a new thread or rename this one feel free but could we focus on real issues not imaginary ones.

Seems from the start of the thread alone to where we are at now there have been significant developments in understanding the abilities and agenda of tech companies who share or sell customer information on from platforms such as google/whatsapp/facebook etc - not to mention proof of various Govts' interest and abilities to use both hardware and software to listen/watch citizens to collect information.

Whether that be from seemingly ever-changing permissions on the likes of privacy settings of social media, using very loose definitions in the terms and conditions of use of devices or software, through to backdoors created by manufacturers themselves (software, firmware, hardware - or server info) for the ability of devices to become of use to various interested parties - ranging from the information on clients collected by the provider/manufacturer themselves, through to Govts' security services.

You're correct to say that the 'data processing and power of search algorithms is hard to comprehend now' (for the laymen/non-specialist) - yet whilst companies would prefer high quality inputs to create help more reliable outputs the demand and money involved has meant that hasn't been the case for some time (in both quality of recording input, accepting a lesser quality of source - and even having access to create more 'lesser accurate' outputs).

Inputs from conversations on mobile/home devices have been a credible source of input for a good while now - not long after after the time of the 'phone & email metadata leak' in the case of mobile devices. So much so that 'incidental' input from content from the actual tv and radio (and other background sources) is now considered a good input in itself - it is content that you are watching or listening to - or in a surrounding of - and will be stored, sold and used accordingly (even if that is just used to help further breakdown subsets of outputs and improving quality of devices to obtain this information - or just sold on for less money etc).

Now that is not imaginary - it is, has been, and will continue to be a real issue.

Even if Kidder is using his own low quality inputs to seemingly try and get some high quality / likely-out-of-his-league female outputs... (sorry Kidder :))
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 11:46:41 am by oojason »
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