Author Topic: Liverpool's defence - Giraffes, Walls and Automobiles  (Read 168819 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #520 on: April 27, 2017, 08:22:56 am »
I think Matip has been excellent. Yes he has had a couple of dodgy moments but if you are looking for one that doesnt then its going to be a tough find. Factor in our attacking style then I find it strange if anyone has been less than impressed.

The one thing that doesnt come across is his leadership. He seems a bit more like the supporting cast than someone taking charge and barking orders. Cannot discount him as anything other than a good defender however.

Offline Chris~

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #521 on: April 27, 2017, 08:35:17 am »
Spending £50m on a centre back coming off a bad knee injury when one of our problems with our centre backs has been keeping them fit is a bit mental. I'm definitely in the camp of there should be at least as good options out there for a lot less.

Signing a couple of CB's may well help eradicate the individual errors we've been making at the back. But I don't think we'll ever be rock solid under Klopp. I still think we'll concede soft goals that will infuriate us from time to time. Basically because of the way he sets us up to play. Matip mentioned it the other week. How it's hard to defend in the system we play. So I think it's something we're going to have to accept will happen while he remains our manager.
Yeah I'm never expecting us to have a Spurs or United type defensive record, Klopp's career isn't one that suggests we'd do that regularly, but even getting it down to around 36-40 goals a season would be good and should be achievable if we don't have to sacrifice much in attack.

Offline redk84

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #522 on: April 27, 2017, 08:38:23 am »
Does anyone have defensive stats on Lovren pre- Liverpool compared to with us
Same with Matip

Like that graphic on the last page ?

Just wanna see if our system seems to be an issue here or they've gotten worse/better
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Offline Wool

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #523 on: April 27, 2017, 08:41:30 am »
I think Matip has been excellent. Yes he has had a couple of dodgy moments but if you are looking for one that doesnt then its going to be a tough find. Factor in our attacking style then I find it strange if anyone has been less than impressed.

The one thing that doesnt come across is his leadership. He seems a bit more like the supporting cast than someone taking charge and barking orders. Cannot discount him as anything other than a good defender however.
Yup, and to be fair to Matip, a lot of those dodgy moments have come after his injury.

Offline didi shamone

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #524 on: April 27, 2017, 08:49:30 am »
I think Matip has been excellent. Yes he has had a couple of dodgy moments but if you are looking for one that doesnt then its going to be a tough find. Factor in our attacking style then I find it strange if anyone has been less than impressed.

The one thing that doesnt come across is his leadership. He seems a bit more like the supporting cast than someone taking charge and barking orders. Cannot discount him as anything other than a good defender however.

Thats something that sticks out in our defence.  No one seems to take charge.  The difference in Citys defence with and without Kompany is enormous.  It'd be great if a real leader could be found to partner Matip, who is a very good player in his own right.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #525 on: April 27, 2017, 08:54:09 am »
Does anyone have defensive stats on Lovren pre- Liverpool compared to with us
Same with Matip

Like that graphic on the last page ?

Just wanna see if our system seems to be an issue here or they've gotten worse/better

 could only do matip


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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #526 on: April 27, 2017, 11:52:47 am »
I think Matip has been excellent. Yes he has had a couple of dodgy moments but if you are looking for one that doesnt then its going to be a tough find. Factor in our attacking style then I find it strange if anyone has been less than impressed.

The one thing that doesnt come across is his leadership. He seems a bit more like the supporting cast than someone taking charge and barking orders. Cannot discount him as anything other than a good defender however.

He started well but his level of play has dropped off, he seems quite meek. I think the jury is still out on him.

Offline redk84

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #527 on: April 27, 2017, 12:02:42 pm »
could only do matip


cheers mate...

few of those stats certainly are interesting, would be good to see Lovren's too to compare any similarities.

Could then see maybe if it's a difference in the German/English league or not as Lovren was at Southampton before.

obviously there'd be more to it but for potential new signings would like to see strengths where we have existing weaknesses, maybe will have a knock on effect too
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Offline Giono

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #528 on: April 27, 2017, 12:43:08 pm »

Signing a couple of CB's may well help eradicate the individual errors we've been making at the back. But I don't think we'll ever be rock solid under Klopp. I still think we'll concede soft goals that will infuriate us from time to time. Basically because of the way he sets us up to play. Matip mentioned it the other week. How it's hard to defend in the system we play. So I think it's something we're going to have to accept will happen while he remains our manager.

Agree. And in exchange for this tactical sacrifice we should expect our wingbacks to add width, threat and chance-creation to justify their positioning high up the pitch.

Park the bus is not as effective if we are threatening from the wings and when we are up 2-0 before we concede one of those chances.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 12:46:31 pm by Giono »
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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #529 on: April 27, 2017, 12:58:51 pm »
Like Mane? Wijnaldum?

That's actually an interesting point. Both of them played well against Liverpool including a brilliant Wijnaldum dinked goal. Mane got a hatrick. Klavan kept a clean sheet in the Europa league leg.

Lovren scored a thumping header at the Anfield Road End before he was bought...

On this evidence it's surprising Liverpool never signed Bolasie.
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Offline Geezer08

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #530 on: April 27, 2017, 02:48:35 pm »
I like Van Dijk - I think he's absolutely the calibre of player we should be targetting to improve our shit show of a defence but at £50m? Yeesh, that's a lot of money. Especially for a non-oil club like ourselves. That's what, between a half and a third of our entire budget, depending how optimistic you are about the purse strings being loosened? It's an area of weakness but we have plenty of those, and I'm not sure the premium is as warranted as it is in other positions (i.e. up front). You look at the top CBs in the league and almost none of them arrived at their current clubs for big money, and the converse of that is that most of the big money CBs in recent years have ranged from underwhelming to disastrous and you'd be hard placed to say a single one was worth the money paid.

My issue is this - Van Dijk looks good in the set up at Southampton. You know who else also looked quite good at Southampton? Lovren. Before he became the headless chicken he is here, he looked actually very competent in a defensive set up on the South coast. I'm sure some will say he was poor at Lyon, but I remember Van Dijk having plenty of games for Celtic where he looked an absolute bomb scare. Point being, form for another team in a completely different set up really has no bearing on how a player will be for us, probably at CB moreso than any other position.

Don't get me wrong - on the face of it I think Van Dijk is currently far superior to Lovren, and I'm not trying to defend (ha) Lovren who I think will be lucky to still be an LFC player next year. I do however think people underestimate the amount of stress placed on our CBs at times, they literally have zero margin for error and know that even the smallest mistake will likely result in a chance if not a goal. That level of pressure, regardless of the quality of the individual, is not conducive to always making good decisions. I daresay there are studies somewhere in some unrelated field showing that the higher the level of stress, and the frequency of stress placed on individuals, the more likely the individual is to make poor decisions or mistakes, and the bigger those mistakes are likely to be. I'm not saying quality doesn't play a part, but ultimately I actually think environment is the bigger decider. Hence why David Luiz actually looks a halfway decent defender in a Chelsea system where if he fucks up there's usually 2 others to bail him out, if the defensive mids actually let the opposition get that far.

I'm not saying Van Dijk would turn to shit the second he got here, but the conversation about how we set up and how we defend as a team is as important for me as the personnel. Not to mention it does little to solve our seemingly team wide issue of being fucking shite at set pieces. I think Van Dijk is probably the best player we could hope to get (and FWIW I don't think we will...) but I'm not sure he represents a £50m upgrade.

Some will say who cares about the money, but we don't have bottomless pockets and we have a considerable number of areas to address. Which brings me to the full backs...

We cannot go into another season with Milner and Clyne as the starting full backs and expect to do well. If you accept that one of the reasons we are so exposed defensively is because they play so high up the pitch that's fine, but there has to be a trade-off - that weakness HAS to be mitigated by them providing something tangible/half way useful going forward, and they don't. At the moment, they leave the CBs exposed regularly, but offer bugger all further up the pitch, and it's not helping either area of our team (the discussion on how useful competent FBs would be at breaking down stubborn sides is for another thread).

Either they stay at home (unlikely in a Klopp system) or we desperately need better attacking full backs, cos our current ones are currently doing naff all most of the time.

Completely agree - I made the somewhat same analysis yesterday. The best defenders are moulded over years to fit to one exact system, and one defender might look fantastic in one setup and hopeless in another setup. I hope we are applying a more detailed and holistic analysis of potential defenders than solely realying on stats and data of a defendre  in a specific setup.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #531 on: April 27, 2017, 02:53:47 pm »
I hope we are applying a more detailed and holistic analysis of potential defenders than solely realying on stats and data of a defendre  in a specific setup.

Alberto Moreno and Sakho suggest otherwise.

Offline redk84

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #532 on: April 27, 2017, 03:02:57 pm »
snip

Nail on the head mate.....exactly my thoughts on this without having to type it all out. Wehayyy  :)
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Offline joekim87

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #533 on: April 28, 2017, 02:01:57 am »
Is Burnley's Keane a leader? It looks like we're set to have:

Right Back: Clyne + TAA
Left Back: Milner + new younster

That doesn't look promising at all for next season. Therefore, we MUST sign at least one PREMIUM defender, hopefully two.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #534 on: May 1, 2017, 10:08:58 pm »
Matip - Lovren : 13 goals conceded in 15 games. That's 0.87 per game - extrapolated over the course of the season it's 33 goals which is very close to where Chelsea will end up this season defensively. Goes without saying, major shame they couldn't maintain their fitness this season, we would have been much closer to Top 2 than now.

Offline macmanamanaman

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #535 on: May 2, 2017, 10:48:56 am »
One comment after watching teams constantly attempt to pump high balls into our box - even from FKs won in their own half - It is never ineffective. Not just against us against similar sorts of teams, like Man City.
It seems to be a weapon of those with no choice i.e the bottom half teams who cannot compete on pure skill so resort to the numbers game, play the percentages of the high ball floating about in the general areas in and around the penalty box.

I think we should be humble and learn - not only how to defend - but also to use this to attack.

2 points

a. Develop a defensive system that works? Difficult.
Instead, lets put 1-2 pacy players on top, on the last defender. If their high ball leads to lost possession for them, we should be in a position to intantly break via a long punt downfield.
Attack is the best form of defence and all that.

For a LFC perspective of what these breaks might look like, watch some of our worst games under Houllier. A M Owen upfront was enough for us to score quite a few goals even when the rest of the team was camped in our own half.

Dare I say it - a player like Rashford is perfect for this type of break.
I'd even be tempted to buy an underrated player like Adama Traore just for this type of thing. He might be generally below par when we are pinging it around in midfield and around the opposition penalty box, but will really come into his own when given the opportunity to stretch his legs with a ball over the top.
Maybe even Moreno can play this role.
(He certainly seems to tick the 'brainless' box too. But I believe there is a way to use him in a productive way, just given the raw pace and specific set of skills in the locker that he has)

b. Develop an attacking system that uses the same long ball into the box tactic, from FKs. Even from our own half.
Look how Crystal Palace struggle against high balls into their own box.

By all means, keep it on the ground, short quick passing the rest of the time.
But when given a freekick, let's just switch into a different mode and make the most of it.
Float it into the box, and have players trained to take up positions where there is maximum probability of winning second balls.
[as opposed to quickly pass to an underpressure full back who then passes back to the GK who then hoofs it into touch]
I am sure there is a battalion of of data analysis watching hours of recorded games to know hotspots on the ground, based on angles and distances of freekicks etc, where our players should position themselves and be 'programmed' to keep the ball in the box alive. Play the percentages.

Point 1 and 2 are "exceptions" to all the pretty football.
Basically, only reserved for dead ball situations.
(which, face it, can't possibly be handled much worse by us at present)

Easy, this managing malarkey, right?
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #536 on: May 2, 2017, 11:00:22 am »
Matip - Lovren : 13 goals conceded in 15 games. That's 0.87 per game - extrapolated over the course of the season it's 33 goals which is very close to where Chelsea will end up this season defensively. Goes without saying, major shame they couldn't maintain their fitness this season, we would have been much closer to Top 2 than now.

One thing that was noticeable last night is that they really squeezed the play well.
we were playing really high and a lot of the time Watford couldn't get out. A lot of their long balls were coming from deep or from wide and midway in our half - way easier to defend than a final third cross.
Thought they both did well - if we get one more at their level or better this summer it'll go a long way to improving our defensive record. Not just in the last ditch and grock work style defending but also in controlling games and preventing chances in the first place

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #537 on: May 3, 2017, 01:58:04 pm »
Matip - Lovren : 13 goals conceded in 15 games. That's 0.87 per game - extrapolated over the course of the season it's 33 goals which is very close to where Chelsea will end up this season defensively. Goes without saying, major shame they couldn't maintain their fitness this season, we would have been much closer to Top 2 than now.
Very bored so looked at this in a different way:

35 games, 42 goals conceded.
9 clean sheets
15 games with 1 goal conceded
so 24 games with 15 conceded = 0.625 per game.
11 games with 27 conceded @ 2.45 per game.

Of those games:
7 away, 2 wins, 1 draw, 4 defeats, 2 games were we dropped points from winning positions and 1 comeback from losing position to win (Arsenal)
4 home, 2 draws, 2 defeats, 3 games were we dropped points from winning positions. And 2 games when we recovered losing positions to end up drawing, plus 1 game were we recovered a 2 goal deficit and then lost.
Overall in the games we conceded 2 or more goals we dropped 12 points from winning positions.

In the games were we conceded 2 or more Lovren and Matip have played together in 3/11. In 2 of those 3, Karius was the keeper and in 1, Moreno was LB (we won that game too)

In the remaining 8 games were we conceded 2 or more:
5 games have featured Lovren and Klavan at CB
1 has had Lovren and Lucas with Karius in goal
2 have had Matip and Lucas.

For the 24 games (were we conceded 15) that did not feature Matip/Lovren:
7 featured Matip, 3 with Lucas, 4 with Klavan - 6 wins and 1 draw, although 6/7 were at home.
6 featured Lovren, all with Klavan, 5 wins 1 draw 2/6 at home.
However, this looks to be a fair concentration of goals conceded in a smallish number of games by non 1st choice line ups.
Lovren and Klavan have conceded 2 or more in 45% of games
Matip and Lucas have conceded 2 or more in 40% of games - albeit in a sample of 5.
Matip and Klavan have done OK in their 4 games together
It's too simplistic to say that those results happened because of the defensive line ups but constant chopping and changing won't help and blooding a new keeper behind a changing CB partnership wont have helped either.

Mignolet maintaining fitness and form, Matip staying fit would appear to be our best hope. Not having to play Lucas at CB would help, as would having to rely on Klavan in fewer games.


Its those 12 points from winning positions though :no
Just looking at my notes at games like Leicester, Burnley, Hull away, we were crap and deserved nothing, yes there were errors but as a team we were crap. But both Bournemouths, Sunderland away, Palace at home, West Ham at home are the ones that got me. Our results this season have shown that if we concede 1, we don't lose. No one has done us 1-0.
We have added at least 9 points to our previous total this year, we have goals spread around the forwards and midfield. While we can do better and could do with a more reliable striker, for me most improvement on this years points total will come from better defending.

« Last Edit: May 3, 2017, 02:10:18 pm by Charlie Adams fried egg right »

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #538 on: May 3, 2017, 02:31:16 pm »
In the games were we conceded 2 or more Lovren and Matip have played together in 3/11.

In the remaining 8 games were we conceded 2 or more:
5 games have featured Lovren and Klavan at CB
1 has had Lovren and Lucas with Karius in goal
2 have had Matip and Lucas.
Urgh. That's the thing with Lovren, he practically needs a babysitter, a better CB like Matip next to him for things to work. The moment he has to take charge with an inferior CB next to him chances are there will be a defensive collapse. That's why that situation needs to avoided at all costs.

Without Matip we have conceded whopping 18 goals in 11 games. It speaks volumes.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #539 on: May 7, 2017, 04:02:24 pm »
I'm of the mindset that you should look for negatives when you win in order to improve and look for positives when you don't get a result.

So in that sense my positive from today is another good performance from Matip-Lovren partnership.

This season 16 games 13 goals conceded. That's 0.81 per game and 2.18 points per game which is all really impressive imo.

Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #540 on: May 14, 2017, 04:14:49 pm »
I was going to post before the game how I no longer $hit myself whenever we concede a corner, but I thought better of it.

....that West Ham moment....cringe....
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Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #541 on: May 21, 2017, 05:12:07 pm »
Matip - Lovren : 18 games only 13 goals conceded - 0.72 per game, that is just ridiculous considering how badly we struggled defensively in previous years. Ratio is practically level with Spurs who have best defence and the sample size is decent enough to give you an indication.

CB in on their level is an absolute must so we can ensure there isn't a huge drop off we witnessed this season with Klavan and Lucas playing way too much.

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #542 on: May 21, 2017, 05:14:53 pm »
Matip - Lovren : 18 games only 13 goals conceded - 0.72 per game, that is just ridiculous considering how badly we struggled defensively in previous years. Ratio is practically level with Spurs who have best defence and the sample size is decent enough to give you an indication.

CB in on their level is an absolute must so we can ensure there isn't a huge drop off we witnessed this season with Klavan and Lucas playing way too much.
Agree. But we need to improve our corner defending first. Do that and i think we solve a good part of the problem.
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Offline Illmatic

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #543 on: May 21, 2017, 08:49:49 pm »
Despite Lovern's decent record when playing with Matip still think we will need to upgrade on him if we are to kick on again next season. Lovern will be a very good third choice option though. I'd be happy if we kept Sarko and still brought someone else in. 
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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #544 on: May 21, 2017, 10:24:30 pm »
It's a really good record, and yeah we need someone in who's not only good but better than the current two. Not to slight him as he's turned his time around here but I genuinely thought Lovren had wet the bed today and got away with it against boro. Now it happens sometimes with players, so you have to remember that but I do feel that he's more susceptible than others.

Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #545 on: May 21, 2017, 10:46:11 pm »
Funny no one talks about us needing a new keeper. The transformation of Migs has been truly remarkable.
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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #546 on: May 21, 2017, 10:54:04 pm »
It's a really good record, and yeah we need someone in who's not only good but better than the current two. Not to slight him as he's turned his time around here but I genuinely thought Lovren had wet the bed today and got away with it against boro. Now it happens sometimes with players, so you have to remember that but I do feel that he's more susceptible than others.

Absolutely. I said it post match and I'll say it again - he's a very good defender but turns into a mediocre one in high pressure situations. He could have given away a penalty and got himself sent off today, and then let Bamford in again once or twice which could have cost us as well. I think Matip will need a new CB partner if we're to improve defensively next season.

Offline ac

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #547 on: May 21, 2017, 11:08:51 pm »
Lovren should be 4 th choice at best. Not as bad as  moreno but he is a liability and could have cost us today

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #548 on: May 21, 2017, 11:11:42 pm »
Up the degsy lovren reds!

Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #549 on: May 21, 2017, 11:18:07 pm »
Lovren should be 4 th choice at best. Not as bad as  moreno but he is a liability and could have cost us today

My mood would have been so different if the referee had given the penalty and the result could change with us getting nervous and frustrated. We were lucky, no question about that.

Lovren, unfortunately for me if not good enough. He hadn't screwed up today and it was all down to luck. Next season, there will be a Champions League or a league game where he could cost us badly. He has also been given enough chances by Klopp so it is not as if he didn't have a run of games to get into form or proof himself. We need a better player beside Matip.

Offline Nelly82

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #550 on: May 21, 2017, 11:18:27 pm »
Boss freebie Matip. He has dead big feet! Gwerrrrd Joel la

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #551 on: May 21, 2017, 11:26:16 pm »
Funny no one talks about us needing a new keeper. The transformation of Migs has been truly remarkable.

On the contrary, as I've always said, he's been getting steadily better year on year, and he was pretty good to start with. What was remarkable was the clamour to see Migs dropped in favour of Karius, who nobody knew the first thing about but everyone for some reason thought must be Ray Clemence reincarnated.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #552 on: May 21, 2017, 11:32:55 pm »
My mood would have been so different if the referee had given the penalty and the result could change with us getting nervous and frustrated. We were lucky, no question about that.

Lovren, unfortunately for me if not good enough. He hadn't screwed up today and it was all down to luck. Next season, there will be a Champions League or a league game where he could cost us badly. He has also been given enough chances by Klopp so it is not as if he didn't have a run of games to get into form or proof himself. We need a better player beside Matip.
The referee didn't give a penalty because there was minimal contact and Banford was already on the way down before there was contact. It's not 'luck' but good referring.

The bit about Klopp giving him enough chances is funny though, based on the fact he gave him a new contract he disagrees with you.
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Offline mrantarctica

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #553 on: May 21, 2017, 11:52:09 pm »
We do need better quality across the back. Some important points to ponder in the transfer period and off-season :

1)  what will the fate of our defensive loanees be?
2) what will become of Milner if we sign a top rate LB?
3) who will make the step up from the pool of younger players? Is Gomez going to have his breakthrough next season?

Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #554 on: May 22, 2017, 12:28:17 am »
An example of how stats can be misleading..
We were lucky the last two games not to concede because of Lovren.. Before Sturridge goal against West Ham he hesitated and made a big mistake and Matip saved us, also Ayew chance.. The same also happened twice today .. He lacks composure to be a top defender we need a better option than him next season..


Nice job with the pics.

Boro must have had about 2 or 3 ventures going forward and Lovren seemed to have failed us in all of them.

We play a high-pressing game with a lot of possession and are very very rarely outplayed, meaning that opponents usually only score on the rare counters they get right. This requires our centre backs to be at high levels of concentration and composure at all times and Lovren seems to lack those to a sufficient standard. Today was another example, as you have rightly pointed out.

He really should not be starting for us, and I hope we don't see too much of him next season in the league or the CL.
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Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #555 on: May 22, 2017, 12:43:16 am »
I didn't think Matip played well today either. His passing was atrocious in the first half and he stands and watches the ball go over him far too often. Say what you want about Lovren but he'll fight until the end.

They've got a decent record together but I think we'd all love to see a truly top defender come in for one of them to compete to play alongside.

Offline KurtVerbose

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #556 on: May 22, 2017, 07:55:12 am »
On the contrary, as I've always said, he's been getting steadily better year on year, and he was pretty good to start with. What was remarkable was the clamour to see Migs dropped in favour of Karius, who nobody knew the first thing about but everyone for some reason thought must be Ray Clemence reincarnated.

I don't know why you would say that. Last winter he was frankly awful. Fair play to him for turning it round.
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Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #557 on: May 22, 2017, 08:39:06 am »
The referee didn't give a penalty because there was minimal contact and Banford was already on the way down before there was contact. It's not 'luck' but good referring.

The bit about Klopp giving him enough chances is funny though, based on the fact he gave him a new contract he disagrees with you.

Him getting a new deal doesn't equal him being a regular next season. If anything Klopp wanting Van Dijk suggests he's not satisfied with one of them.

It was lucky, it wasn't a penalty like most have inferred but it was a free-kick, look those things can happen but the more concerning thing is he allowed it to happen 3 more times after that later on. Matip bailed him out a couple of times and Bamford skewed his shot on another.

You can get away with that against Bamford on occasions but change it to Ronaldo and he'll score at least one of them. Dejan is 27 so there's a high chance he's not going to improve much beyond what he currently is, that's not a case to say he should go - he shouldn't - but it is a case for improving the position.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #558 on: May 22, 2017, 08:41:42 am »
Spending £50m on a centre back coming off a bad knee injury when one of our problems with our centre backs has been keeping them fit is a bit mental.

Van Dijk is not coming off a "bad knee" injury. He's had an ankle problem that needed sorting out.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #559 on: May 22, 2017, 08:45:47 am »
Some people don't understand that our central defenders are always exposed, do to our style of play. Put Bonucci and Chiellini on our team, and they will also struggle occasionally.