Author Topic: Youth Article 2/3  (Read 1809 times)

Online Mr Dilkington

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Youth Article 2/3
« on: March 7, 2014, 01:59:20 am »
In this piece, Cpt_Reina talks about how the loan system can be an effective tool in the development of young player's, but it's not always a fullproof plan...

Loans – The Cause Of And Solution To All Of Liverpool FC’s problems.

Having never been a supporter of any other club I’m unable to say whether they carry quite the same level of interest in the loan system as we seem to. Increasingly, insistently, it appears as if we as a fanbase are obsessing over loans.

It’s probably best not to go in to too much detail on the incoming players that LFC has taken temporarily. Although there is merit to discussing how they impact the young players in that position. Would the minutes and money invested in Moses have been better for Ibe? And us? Its hard to know given the lack of evidence we have, I mean we know Moses has hardly shone, but that’s not to say Ibe would have fared any better.

Then there’s cases such as Cissokho and Robinson. Cissokho, again, has not been a massive success from a football stand point. But whereas Ibe hasn’t been able to get playing time that he might have because of Moses, Robinson has been allowed to get a full season of professional football under his belt (minus the suspensions) because of Cissokho’s presence at the club. This is perhaps more the model that we wish to follow going forward, but it will take time to get there obviously. Ibe hasn’t been able to be loaned out because of our lack of wide players even with Moses on board. We were quite well stocked with fullbacks however which enabled Robinson to be sent out.

The next stage you feel will probably be to eliminate the player coming in on loan all together, whilst still enabling the young homegrown player to depart on their own. Next season for instance could see Robinson playing the role of Cissokho and Smith going out to get his games.

Likewise Sterling takes Moses job as rotation option if/when we sort our attacking options which in turn means that Ibe gets his loan.

There does at least appear to be some sort of joined up thinking in all of this, for once.

It hasn’t always been the case of course, that Flanagan came through the other side of his time spent in the Pacheco corridor of uncertainty between the reserves and first team speaks volumes for his application and readiness to take opportunities when handed them. It would have been very easy for Flanno to fall between the gaps when missing out on a significant amount of playing time at a crucial time in his development. A loan is what was clearly needed during that time. Or was it?

Could we not point to Flanagan as a prime example of the effect that coaching, and not necessarily game time, can have on a player? Should Rodgers perhaps not take a large slice of credit for nurturing him along to enable him to reach the level of first team player without that time playing first team football that everybody felt he needed?

He was never a Sterling after all, never a prodigy destined to be fast tracked in to the first team set up of a club pushing for a top 4 finish. Flanagan was much more traditional, he needed to serve an apprentership to pull himself up to our level.

Alas there he was, having played not a lot of senior football, being throw in at the deep end (again) when we played Arsenal. And he swam. No loan, no armbands, nothing.

If nothing else Flanagan shows the massive discrepancies which can occur when it comes to loaning players out. Ask anyone on here prior to that Arsenal game whether or not he needed a loan and the vast majority would have said he did.

So regularly you see people plotting a players’ development as if it were a route from ‘A’ to ‘B’ when rarely it is. Not every player needs a loan at 18, Sterling certainly didn’t (although many believed he did during his off period). Flanagan didn’t (although many, probably myself included, believed he did when he wasn’t playing).

But then, Suso clearly did. His experience at Almeria this season undoubtedly appear to be aiding his development. He’s maturing as a player and a person it seems, through adversity at times. The issues he encounters by playing alongside players who perhaps aren’t all that good, in front of fans who perhaps think he doesn’t try hard enough, they’re character building. More so than another year at Melwood and the odd cameo would have been.

If this season has shown us anything in regards to how we’re utilising loans than its that their success and failure is found within a vast spectrum. They should clearly be allocated, or not, on a case by case basis.

The next barometer could well be found in Joao Carlos Teixeira. A player who clearly possess a lot of talent, but is yet to make any inroads in to the professional game. At 21 years of age its about time he started.

We tested the water with a loan deal that didn’t work out earlier in the season, and Teixeira now appears to be being kept around (for the time being). Perhaps Rodgers will back himself to coach him up to level as he did with Flanagan, or maybe another loan will be mooted.

As is the case with most facets of youth development, its like trying to shoot at a moving target. So many variables come in to play, professional, personal, technical, they’re all there to be considered.

Loans will forever be both the cause of, and solution to, all of our problems.




Second guessing which young players will make the grade and which will fall by the wayside can be fun, but it often leaves you feeling a bit foolish...


When Liverpool travelled to The Emirates stadium in mid April 2011, the most memorable thing to come out of the 1-1 draw was Kenny Dalglish telling Arsene Wenger in no uncertain terms, to "piss off". Arsenal had just seen their slim hopes of a title evaporate with a 97th minute Dirk Kuyt penalty, and in predictable fashion, Arsene Wenger was throwing his arms around like a bairn who'd just dropped his Curly Wurly.


On the pitch, the most striking thing was the assured performances of two Academy full backs In Jon Flanagan and Jack Robinson. At the time, Flanagan was just 18 years old, and Robinson 17. Both handled the occasion with a great maturity, and Kenny's pride was evident. Flanagan had played on a number of occasions before the Arsenal game, but it was Jack Robinson's full debut for the club. There was a great deal of hope for both players, but in the time since, they've taken very different paths.


At the time of that Arsenal game, and in the games that followed, both kept up a high level of performance as Liverpool finished the season in sparkling form. If football was a fairytale, then both Robinson and Flanagan would have continued on an upward trajectory, with both nailing down a starting place; helping Liverpool to win barrel loads of trophies. That may yet be the case, however as with any good fairytale, there has to be strife before the triumph. Both Robinson and Flanagan have experienced difficulties in their young career, both for very different reasons.


At the time of the Arsenal game, I, as well as many others who take an interest in the youth side of things, would have, and did tell anyone who'd listen that Robinson was a better prospect than Flanagan. At the time, Flanagan was performing brilliantly, but Robinson was the one that just seemed to have everything needed. He had everything Flanagan did, as well as a bit extra. He was destined to become Liverpool's answer to Paolo Maldini. Flanagan was the lad that might stay in and around the squad, but he was always going to be in Robinson's shadow. The Phil to Robinson's Gary Neville.


Football - It's a funny old game isn't it?



Bouncing Back And The Importance Of Character



The start of the 2011/12 season proved to be a good one for Liverpool. Despite an influx of new signing's, Liverpool had drawn 1 and won 2 of their first 3 games; including a very impressive 2-0 win at the Emirates stadium. This time however, there was no Flanagan, and indeed no Robinson. Liverpool had signed Jose Enrique from Newcastle to shore up the left side of defence, and on the other flank was another Academy boy in Martin Kelly. It wasn't a surprise either - both Kelly and Enrique were better players than Flanagan and Robinson were at the time.  Fair do's.


Both players did manage to grab some game time during Liverpool's successful Carling Cup run, starting games away to Exeter and Brighton, but other than that, opportunities were limited, and apart from 3 League appearances for Jon Flanagan at the back end of an ultimately disappointing League campaign, there was a feeling that neither player had really kicked on and progressed, given just how impressive they both were in the season previous. But they were 18. The sky was falling in for some given they weren't performing like Maldini and Cafu every single week. Flanagan was written off. He just got lucky. We were now seeing his true colours. And they weren't very bright. He'll never be good enough for Liverpool. At least he'll make a good career for himself in the Championship. Like Jay Spearing. He'll never be good enough for Liverpool.


If the previous summer had brought a great deal of upheaval, then the summer of 2012 was no different. Brendan Rodgers replaced Kenny Dalglish following an impressive debut season in charge of Swansea, and Flanagan and Robinson had a new bloke to impress. The promising thing for Flanagan and Robinson, as well as many others waiting to break through; Rodgers had a background in youth football. If either were going to force their way into the Liverpool first team, then this was the guy to help them do it. Both players went on the summer pre season tour, and there was a real feeling that Rodgers would reward hard work and quality.


The Europa League proved to be the stomping ground for Liverpool's young players during Rodgers' first season in charge, but Flanagan and Robinson managed just one appearance apiece during the group stage. It wasn't going to plan for them. In February, nearly two years after their starring roles against Arsenal, Robinson found himself being sent on loan to Wolves, whilst Flanagan seemed to spend half of his time playing for the Under 21 side, and the other half on the injury table. In that 2 years, neither player had really kicked on and nailed down a place in the matchday squad, and in many ways they had actually regressed. Perhaps a career in the Championship did beckon. Perhaps the naysayers were right.


Jordan Henderson attempts to square the ball for Raheem Sterling. Blocked. But it comes again, and Henderson, like Henderson does, keeps chasing. Walker hounds him, there's nowhere to go. Only there is. The ball is back heeled through Walker's legs. Brilliant. Luis Suarez stands the ball up, but it's over the head of Phillipe Coutinho and Raheem Sterling. No worry. The ball skips off the wet surface at White Heart Lane, half rain, half tears. The ball is guided like a laser onto the underside of the bar. It ricochets off the line, and the ripple of the net signals another Liverpool goal. Jon Flanagan, almost in disbelief, rushes towards the travelling Kop to celebrate his first goal for the club. No one could have predicted the turnaround in fortune. Flanagan was starting his 5th consecutive game for Liverpool - a run that started at - yeah, you guessed it, The Emirates. When the teamsheet was released, social media exploded in a state of panic and depression. Why not Kelly instead?! He's going to fuck everything up! SEND HIM TO THE CHAMPIONSHIP WHERE HE BELONGS! We have no chance of winning with that useless twat in the team! As it was, we didn't win, but it had little to do with the performance of Jon Flanagan. It was one of those rare occasions where Liverpool were comprehensively outplayed in every area of the pitch. On that occasion, Flanagan played as a right wing back, but every time after that he's played as an orthodox full back; and looked better for it too.


Despite playing relatively well in the Arsenal game, Flanagan immediately made way for the returning Glen Johnson against Fulham. The Arsenal game might easily have been one last hurrah for Flanagan in a Liverpool shirt, but on the 23rd of November, against Everton, at Goodison, playing out of position, Jon Flanagan might well have been the best player in a red shirt. It was a performance that oozed quality and composure. Flanagan has often been too readily labelled as a blood and thunder type defender. A clear your lines and put it into row z kind of defender. This has always been an unfair assertion, and now more than ever it's becoming clear why. Flanagan has always shown good technical ability. Not in a particularly eye catching sense, but you could always see he was a good footballer. I'd watch Flanagan play for the reserves most weeks, and it was very rare if he wasn't at least a 7/10. Despite not having great physical tools, he'd be up and down the right flank with relentless energy. Defending well, and then joining in when he could. The more he plays in the first team, the more we're seeing of that side of his game. The Arsenal home game is probably the clearest example of Flanagan the footballer. He made some quality, and technically difficult passes look very easy.


Brendan Rodgers has always said that players who work hard will get their reward. Jon Flanagan works hard, and now he is getting his reward. Where does this leave Jack Robinson though? I watched the two of them play in the reserves, and when they both broke through to the first team at the same time, it felt right. It's almost as if their fates should be intertwined. Flanagan right back, Robinson left back. But whilst Flanagan is playing every week for Liverpool in a serious title race, Robinson is scrapping away at the bottom of the Championship with Blackpool. I can't say I've seen a great deal of Blackpool this season, if at all, but the general consensus from the Blackpool fans seems to be positive; and if there's any position in the Liverpool team that's up for grabs, it's left back. My hope is that Jack Robinson has taken heart from the resurgence of Jon Flanagan, comes back from Blackpool, knuckles down, and impresses Rodgers during pre season.


It's great to see any Liverpool player doing well, mostly because it benefits Liverpool, but no one can tell me that as Jon Flanagan wheeled away in obvious jubilation, there wasn't something extra special in that goal. Not only a local boy that came through the Academy, but someone who was written off by every man and his dog, and was now giving all who had doubted him the middle finger. Life doesn't get much better than that. And if you can do it all with a proud boner, then why the hell not.
« Last Edit: March 7, 2014, 01:49:54 pm by Mr Dilkington »
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Re: Youth Article 2/3
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2014, 11:36:13 pm »
Here's Part II of Cpt Reina's fascinating articles on our youth.
Yep.

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Re: Youth Article 2/3
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 12:01:15 am »
Brilliant.

In a season of improbably exceeding expectations, Flanagan has probably been the most pleasant surprise for me.  I rated him but doubted he'd make it here, thought his chance had ultimately come and gone but since he came back into the team he's been exemplary; his goal against Spurs was one of those moments where you feel almost like its a member of your family that's just scored a goal for Liverpool, just an overwhelming sense of pride to see proof that hard work allied with a desperate desire to learn and improve can be rewarded with a moment that all of us would give anything to experience.  It is one of those moments that will always stay with me, one that reminded me why I love this club so much.

Robinson had slipped off my radar, I really like him but its just been a case of out of sight, out of mind.  I've followed the progress of Andre Wisdom, another promising young full-back, quite closely during his loan at Derby where he has been excellent and it's good to hear that Robinson is also doing well at Blackpool, despite them struggling this season.  I'm looking forward to the tour in America this summer to see which young players are on the plane.  Robinson should be one of them and it will be interesting to see him back in a Liverpool shirt and get a measure of just how much he has gotten out his spells on loan to Wolves and Blackpool.  When you consider we have Brad Smith and Ryan McLaughlin in the Under-21's as well, full-back is a position where we are really well-stocked in terms of promising youth at the moment.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 12:03:24 am by Djimi Smicer »

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Re: Youth Article 2/3
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 01:06:04 am »
Flanagan's situation just confirms how much luck is involved in youth development. Obviously Flanagan himself deserves huge credit for how he's come back from that horror show against Blackburn under Kenny, but so much went right for him to even get that chance. Injuries, other loans and even a failure to get Flanagan a loan are why he got his chance. Although it's a cliché it is important that you take your chance when you get it, Flanagan has done it and Sterling has done it twice now.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next season with regards to loans. Peterson's already had one and I'm surprised he wasn't allowed to continue it. Lussey, Smith and Dunn probably need one at some point next season even if it's only a few games just to see how they cope and so we can allow others to step up.

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Re: Youth Article 2/3
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 01:19:49 am »
I have rather the opposite opinion on Flanagan's success.

It's not luck at all, for me it illustrates how much of youth development is down to the mentality of the player.  If he takes things for granted and isn't totally committed to improving in training and giving his all, he will most likely fail.  If he is the kind of person who refuses to take no for an answer, and totally commits himself to the task of becoming the best footballer he can, he will most likely make it.

Of course, this assumes he has the raw materials needed in the first place, but my point is that talent alone (and luck, for that matter) is not enough to see a player through to the first team.  Talent alone will get you to the U21 level, without a doubt, but making the step up as Flanagan has requires graft and an attitude that is willing to be on the bench for the first team one night and playing in the Youth Cup the next, all without any difference in the attitude displayed in training.  It is perhaps rarer than we think to have that attitude in a young player, but that is maybe why young players breaking into the first team is rare as well.
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Re: Youth Article 2/3
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 07:26:24 am »
Brilliant stuff - looking forward to more from you Cpt Reina!

I wonder if Inglethorpe's rise will lead to a different approach in the coming months. McLaughlin is the other one I'm borderline anxious about just now.

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Re: Youth Article 2/3
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 09:32:11 am »
Brilliant stuff - looking forward to more from you Cpt Reina!

I wonder if Inglethorpe's rise will lead to a different approach in the coming months. McLaughlin is the other one I'm borderline anxious about just now.

The bottom two pieces are Dilks', I can't be taking credit for those. Though you're not wrong on them.

McLaughlin perhaps epitomises the fractious relationship we currently have with loans better than anyone else right now.

He's clearly very talented, and appears to have been on the verge of that next step for a while now, without ever taking it.

He even got his loan to Barnsley, but had terrible luck with injuries. I don’t know if he's able to go back now that he's fit again or whether we recalled him completely (he turned out for the U21s last week).

But it’s hard to see him getting any minutes for us until the end of the season now if he is unable to return to Yorkshire, given the importance of our games and relative strength again at fullback. So here's another 3 months of the season where he's again not taken that step.

I imagine he'll go out on loan for the entirety of next season, much like Robinson has this. That'll very much be worth keeping an eye on if he does.

A chance is all he needs.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 11:58:26 am by Cpt_Reina »