Author Topic: It's just a battle for the order of the first 4 spots now between 5 teams...  (Read 554914 times)

Offline capt k

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2960 on: February 25, 2014, 05:51:47 am »
<snip>
nice post, and i cant argue with any of it.
JFT 96

Offline Halibut-Thumb

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2961 on: February 25, 2014, 06:13:11 am »
The fact our goal difference is 7 off Man City at this stage of the season is massive. With Champions League football secured (touch wood) next season, and some quality signings all this team needs is to tighten up at the back and we will be very hard to beat.. So if we can't win it this season, watch the fuck out next season. Although if we keep banging goals in how we are who knows, I think Arsenal have to collapse, they always do. And City and Chelsea will drop points, if we get 10 wins and make sure we dont lose either of those crucial home games against City and Chelsea I think we might nick this...
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Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2962 on: February 25, 2014, 06:58:05 am »
The fact our goal difference is 7 off Man City at this stage of the season is massive. With Champions League football secured (touch wood) next season, and some quality signings all this team needs is to tighten up at the back and we will be very hard to beat.. So if we can't win it this season, watch the fuck out next season. Although if we keep banging goals in how we are who knows, I think Arsenal have to collapse, they always do. And City and Chelsea will drop points, if we get 10 wins and make sure we dont lose either of those crucial home games against City and Chelsea I think we might nick this...
I dont think we'll need 10 wins. 7 wins should be enough if we win against both of them. Everyone will drop points, seen nothing this season to believe otherwise.

Offline googhead

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2963 on: February 25, 2014, 08:13:27 am »
Quote from: Halibut-Thumb link=topic=311425.msg12518884#msg12518884 d[b
ate=1393308791]
The fact our goal difference is 7 off Man City at this stage of the season is massive. With Champions League football secured (touch wood) next season, and some quality signings all this team needs is to tighten up at the back and we will be very hard to beat.[/b]. So if we can't win it this season, watch the fuck out next season. Although if we keep banging goals in how we are who knows, I think Arsenal have to collapse, they always do. And City and Chelsea will drop points, if we get 10 wins and make sure we dont lose either of those crucial home games against City and Chelsea I think we might nick this...
champions league football is definately not secure yet, see spurs last season or countless other examples.11 matches still to go, champions league football is secured when utd out of the cl and its mathematically impossibly for spurs, everloan or salford to overtake us.
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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2964 on: February 25, 2014, 08:14:44 am »
United and Spurs fans are now doing the sort of thing people on here have been doing the past X years. Looking 5 fixtures down the line and building up these ideas of "well if they only get 2 points from the next 12..." or "if we get 13 from 15...".

Let's get this right kids - statistically we've been closer to the three sides above us than we have the teams 'competing for 4th'. "Oh, but stats don't tell you the whole picture, you can twist them however you want". Well, "the league table doesn't lie" and all that nonsense. We're 6 points ahead of anyone else competing for 4th. That's 6 points with a +32 goal difference on Spurs. That's a three game swing over eleven games. Spurs, the closest challenger for 4th, need us to drop points in 3 more games than them between now and the end of the season. Everton need us to drop points in 3 more games than them between now and the end of the season. Manchester United need us to lose four more games than them. Over the next 11. Not draw. Lose. Do you know how many we've lost this season? 5. Do you know how many league games we've lost since the start of 2013? 8 in 45. I'll go back even further. Since United won at Anfield last season on the 23rd of September 2012, we've lost 10 games. Out of 60 in the league. That's not with Sturridge or Coutinho. That's Rodgers record besides the first 5 games. We aren't an easy team to beat. Haven't been in a long fucking time. More than long enough to say it's part of the Brendan Rodgers Liverpool DNA, not a streak. We've lost one set of back-to-back fixtures under Rodgers, and they were away to City and Chelsea. But hey, we must be fucking due a collapse, because that's what piss-pants logic dictates, right?

There is literally fucking nothing suggesting we're in a race for 4th instead of a title. I'm not even attempting to be an arrogant dickhead about it. It's just the only thing saying that is fucking cowards logic.

Practically every decent statistical model has us nailed on for top four. Our goal difference (usually a decent indicator) is 2nd best in the league. We're the only team to have kept even remotely within touching distance of City's goalscoring. This Liverpool team had scored more goals after 25 games than any of Arsene Wenger's Arsenal teams had. More than any of Ferguson's league winning teams had. More than any of Chelsea's teams. More than Keegan's Newcastle, more than fucking London club or Keegan's Newcastle. More than the 87-88 team. We're not lucky to be where we are. We're closer to the top than we are to anyone who thinks they're in a 'race for 4th'. We've been picking up 2 points a game steady enough for long over a year now. With Suarez, without Suarez. With Sturridge, without Sturridge. The only thing that doesn't look 'title contenders' about us is our defensive record. And y'know what? It's roughly in the same ball park as United's and Spurs' ones. Not that it fucking matters, because no team below us in the league has scored more than our front 3, never mind the rest of the team.

I'll just say this to end:

If the league had started January 1st 2014, we'd be top.

On December 25 2013, we were top.

Here's a fucking thought for you - maybe we are in a false position. But maybe it's not because we're 'due' to slip up or United or Spurs are ready to pounce and hanging in there. Maybe it's because we were unlucky having the two toughest fixtures in the calender back-to-back, over 3 days, during the most congested period in the calender? Maybe that's it. Because we were top of the league before those two games to the bankrolled pair. We're top of the form league since those two games. Maybe we are in a false position after all...

Or fucking maybe, just maybe I should be scared of the name of other clubs, or guard against optimism lest I look foolish for actually being bullish about what is one of the best teams in the country, whether you want to measure by form, underlining statistics, the league table, basic common sense gleaned from watching matches or anything else that isn't piss-pants cowards logic because you're scared to fail and think your posts on here matter a jot about what will happen between now and the end of the season.

Great post, Juanito ...  :thumbup
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Offline Pistolero

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2965 on: February 25, 2014, 08:52:30 am »
People seem so confident that Utd won't win it that I might just throw a fiver on them winning it. I'll rule them out when they're actually out of it. They'll probably beat Olympiacos but it would be very difficult from there on, but your never know these things. The CL is the only thing left to play for them. A route to next season's CL, funds, silverware etc. They'll chuck everything at it.


what odds are they?...might lob a flim on meself
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Offline WelshMike

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2966 on: February 25, 2014, 09:02:38 am »
I dont think we'll need 10 wins. 7 wins should be enough if we win against both of them. Everyone will drop points, seen nothing this season to believe otherwise.

So you think Chelsea will win 5 of their remaining games?

Realistically we'd need to win a least 9 of our last 11 to win the title - probably 10 or possibly all 11 - and it would be incredible.
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Offline Pistolero

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2967 on: February 25, 2014, 09:06:58 am »
Just out of interest, how many people posting 'it's on', 'believe', 'it's ours to lose' etc etc...have actually seen us win the title?
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2968 on: February 25, 2014, 09:13:39 am »
Meh, that gif will be nothing compared to the one showing Gerrard's celebration when he rips one in from 40 yards at home to Chelsea.
Haha- I see you've been dreaming about that too mate!
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline G1-tiga

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2969 on: February 25, 2014, 09:14:18 am »
I was looking behind us in the table, now I'm starting to look at the teams above us.  Eleven games to go and we're right in the mix for title.  Couldn't of asked for more.

Got to agree with this, going from 7th last season to being in the mix for the title this and Champions league looking more likely by the game. I see no real reason why LFC shouldn't go for it now. Would be a hell of a feat but stranger things really have happened. Exciting times.  :)

Also, just seen that post from Juan Loco, cheers for the morning bloodrush!  :D
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 09:17:55 am by G1-tiga »

Offline Wallingtonian

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2970 on: February 25, 2014, 09:15:29 am »
Just out of interest, how many people posting 'it's on', 'believe', 'it's ours to lose' etc etc...have actually seen us win the title?
I think it's very much on and I've seen us win 13 league titles

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2971 on: February 25, 2014, 09:19:48 am »
Or fucking maybe, just maybe I should be scared of the name of other clubs, or guard against optimism lest I look foolish for actually being bullish about what is one of the best teams in the country, whether you want to measure by form, underlining statistics, the league table, basic common sense gleaned from watching matches or anything else that isn't piss-pants cowards logic because you're scared to fail and think your posts on here matter a jot about what will happen between now and the end of the season.

or maybe it's neither cowards or logic or not wanting to look foolish....but rather just the way you've been brought up watching Liverpool under successive great managers and the values that it/they instilled in you of not shouting the odds, never underestimating the opposition, never taking anything for granted and doing your talking on the pitch?
They have life in them, they have humour, they're arrogant, they're cocky and they're proud. And that's what I want my team to be.

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2972 on: February 25, 2014, 09:20:19 am »

Fantastic! Magnificent team this! They deserve the best! You can see the hunger as soon as that ball is struck and Hendinho racing to get a touch on any rebound. Then the team mugging Stevie as he comes down from his mad celebration!

They're really special, this lot!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 09:23:59 am by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline jckliew

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2973 on: February 25, 2014, 09:27:49 am »


You do wonder how we would have fared had we had Sturridge available for those two games against Chelsea and City.

We will know soon enough how including Sturridge will we fare.   
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Offline Chavvie

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2974 on: February 25, 2014, 09:40:14 am »
or maybe it's neither cowards or logic or not wanting to look foolish....but rather just the way you've been brought up watching Liverpool under successive great managers and the values that it/they instilled in you of not shouting the odds, never underestimating the opposition, never taking anything for granted and doing your talking on the pitch?


Yes but its pretty clear that Juan Loco's post, which I completely agree with, wasn't in response to people acting in the way you've described. A lot of posts on here aren't even talking about our team, I've read hysterics about United winning the CL or Spurs or Everton going on a run that they're very unlikely to be capable of.

I appreciate quiet confidence but when there's no confidence shown in our team, despite what they've produced so far, that makes me wonder what some posters are talking about. I think the more bullish amongst us are well within our rights to point out they should try and locate their backbone and have a bit more faith in the team.

Offline Kelvinlfc

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2975 on: February 25, 2014, 09:40:40 am »
Didn't Olympiakos just sell their best striker to Fulham? How they been doing since?

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2976 on: February 25, 2014, 09:43:59 am »
I was looking behind us in the table, now I'm starting to look at the teams above us.  Eleven games to go and we're right in the mix for title.  Couldn't of asked for more.
As soon as the whistle blew at the end of the Spurs/Norwich match, I could feel the "bad" pressure flow out of me and the "good" pressure coming back. I'm sure it's the same for the team. It's not "pressure" in the usual sense of the word. It's like a license to now go on and wreak havoc. The pressure seems much less than it did last week(and even then we didn't look likely to lose).

This team has a winning mentality.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 09:51:40 am by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline DAK69

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2977 on: February 25, 2014, 09:44:45 am »
United and Spurs fans are now doing the sort of thing people on here have been doing the past X years. Looking 5 fixtures down the line and building up these ideas of "well if they only get 2 points from the next 12..." or "if we get 13 from 15...".

Let's get this right kids - statistically we've been closer to the three sides above us than we have the teams 'competing for 4th'. "Oh, but stats don't tell you the whole picture, you can twist them however you want". Well, "the league table doesn't lie" and all that nonsense. We're 6 points ahead of anyone else competing for 4th. That's 6 points with a +32 goal difference on Spurs. That's a three game swing over eleven games. Spurs, the closest challenger for 4th, need us to drop points in 3 more games than them between now and the end of the season. Everton need us to drop points in 3 more games than them between now and the end of the season. Manchester United need us to lose four more games than them. Over the next 11. Not draw. Lose. Do you know how many we've lost this season? 5. Do you know how many league games we've lost since the start of 2013? 8 in 45. I'll go back even further. Since United won at Anfield last season on the 23rd of September 2012, we've lost 10 games. Out of 60 in the league. That's not with Sturridge or Coutinho. That's Rodgers record besides the first 5 games. We aren't an easy team to beat. Haven't been in a long fucking time. More than long enough to say it's part of the Brendan Rodgers Liverpool DNA, not a streak. We've lost one set of back-to-back fixtures under Rodgers, and they were away to City and Chelsea. But hey, we must be fucking due a collapse, because that's what piss-pants logic dictates, right?

There is literally fucking nothing suggesting we're in a race for 4th instead of a title. I'm not even attempting to be an arrogant dickhead about it. It's just the only thing saying that is fucking cowards logic.

Practically every decent statistical model has us nailed on for top four. Our goal difference (usually a decent indicator) is 2nd best in the league. We're the only team to have kept even remotely within touching distance of City's goalscoring. This Liverpool team had scored more goals after 25 games than any of Arsene Wenger's Arsenal teams had. More than any of Ferguson's league winning teams had. More than any of Chelsea's teams. More than Keegan's Newcastle, more than fucking London club or Keegan's Newcastle. More than the 87-88 team. We're not lucky to be where we are. We're closer to the top than we are to anyone who thinks they're in a 'race for 4th'. We've been picking up 2 points a game steady enough for long over a year now. With Suarez, without Suarez. With Sturridge, without Sturridge. The only thing that doesn't look 'title contenders' about us is our defensive record. And y'know what? It's roughly in the same ball park as United's and Spurs' ones. Not that it fucking matters, because no team below us in the league has scored more than our front 3, never mind the rest of the team.

I'll just say this to end:

If the league had started January 1st 2014, we'd be top.

On December 25 2013, we were top.

Here's a fucking thought for you - maybe we are in a false position. But maybe it's not because we're 'due' to slip up or United or Spurs are ready to pounce and hanging in there. Maybe it's because we were unlucky having the two toughest fixtures in the calender back-to-back, over 3 days, during the most congested period in the calender? Maybe that's it. Because we were top of the league before those two games to the bankrolled pair. We're top of the form league since those two games. Maybe we are in a false position after all...

Or fucking maybe, just maybe I should be scared of the name of other clubs, or guard against optimism lest I look foolish for actually being bullish about what is one of the best teams in the country, whether you want to measure by form, underlining statistics, the league table, basic common sense gleaned from watching matches or anything else that isn't piss-pants cowards logic because you're scared to fail and think your posts on here matter a jot about what will happen between now and the end of the season.




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Great post

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2978 on: February 25, 2014, 09:45:47 am »
I think it's very much on and I've seen us win 13 league titles


Exactly, I remember what it feels like to win the league. The mentality and the momentum is all there with this team

Offline l12ngo

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2979 on: February 25, 2014, 09:56:35 am »

Exactly, I remember what it feels like to win the league. The mentality and the momentum is all there with this team
As a kid I remember the victory parades seemed to basically just be yearly events so it didn't matter too much if you missed one cause you figured you'd just catch the next year's. After the Instanbul parade though, I can't even imagine what a League parade would be like now. When it does happen again, whether it be this year or some time in the future, the players will be blown away like they couldn't imagine.

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2980 on: February 25, 2014, 09:59:31 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/8g6wJOu19hQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/8g6wJOu19hQ</a>

Offline rafathegaffa

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2981 on: February 25, 2014, 10:04:17 am »
United and Spurs fans are now doing the sort of thing people on here have been doing the past X years. Looking 5 fixtures down the line and building up these ideas of "well if they only get 2 points from the next 12..." or "if we get 13 from 15...".

............

Or fucking maybe, just maybe I should be scared of the name of other clubs, or guard against optimism lest I look foolish for actually being bullish about what is one of the best teams in the country, whether you want to measure by form, underlining statistics, the league table, basic common sense gleaned from watching matches or anything else that isn't piss-pants cowards logic because you're scared to fail and think your posts on here matter a jot about what will happen between now and the end of the season.

Brilliant post.
We have no reason to fear anyone or anything right now.
We have no distractions whatsoever (thank God for no Europa League) and every week is huge from now until May.
Seasons like this are so rare - where our football has been so enjoyable, where there's been a real disastrous changing of the guard at Mordor and where we're in with a shout with 11 games to go.

Even our "attritional" wins have been 3-2 or 4-3... not bloody one-nils.
Tis mad! Good mad.

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2982 on: February 25, 2014, 10:31:15 am »
or maybe it's neither cowards or logic or not wanting to look foolish....but rather just the way you've been brought up watching Liverpool under successive great managers and the values that it/they instilled in you of not shouting the odds, never underestimating the opposition, never taking anything for granted and doing your talking on the pitch?


This.

Offline owens_2k

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2983 on: February 25, 2014, 10:31:27 am »
If City, Arsenal and Chelsea all drop any points and we don't before we meet City and Chelsea then the league is in our hands!!!

Offline phonic

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2984 on: February 25, 2014, 10:39:31 am »
Never noticed Sturridge's reaction to Gerrard's penalty at Fulham before - brilliant!

I think the next 4 games for both us and the teams around us will define our season. If we can get 3 wins in the next 4 I think we'll find ourselves with a much bigger gap to 4th place as Spurs have Chelsea, Arsenal and us I think. Before the Norwich Spurs game I'd have said we should still be looking to cement 4th and hope that Chelsea and Arsenal beat Spurs but now you can't help but want Spurs to get something so we can really start looking above us and the possibility of reeling these sides in.

Just to think that we're going into March in such a strong position shows exactly how far we have come. I know it's a well-used cliché but in previous seasons we'd have lost the Fulham game and possibly only drawn the Swansea one. We have that never say die attitude about us again. If we can get the defence through the next 11 games then I really do think we could be onto something very, very special come May.

Offline beardsley4ever

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2985 on: February 25, 2014, 10:53:03 am »
I'll just say this, if you're not enjoying this season and being in the position we're in, then you might as well stop following football.  We aren't ever going to win the title again by 10+ points, so any chance to win the league will come with very fine margins, like they are this year.

Chelsea, Man City and Spurs still need to come to the fortress.  Let them fuking worry, not us.

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2986 on: February 25, 2014, 11:02:19 am »
Just out of interest, how many people posting 'it's on', 'believe', 'it's ours to lose' etc etc...have actually seen us win the title?
Well I have seen us win it a good few times. I was posting that it was on before Fulham. Beat them and Swansea since then. BELIEVE.

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2987 on: February 25, 2014, 11:10:52 am »
Just out of interest, how many people posting 'it's on', 'believe', 'it's ours to lose' etc etc...have actually seen us win the title?

Not really sure why this would matter to be honest.

The ability to decide if we have the ability to gain more points over the following 11 games than the teams above us isn't dependent on seeing us win the title previously.

Offline GG8

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2988 on: February 25, 2014, 11:18:44 am »

It's all in the coaching, people. Skillful football with an iron will, smart transfers and intelligent leadership will always compete with big money. Wenger showed that in 98 and 02 and 04.

A lot has changed in the past decade though. The quality of the league is much higher, there are now a group of 6 top class teams in the league every year and then you get the odd surprise package or two who go on unbelievable runs takling points of whoever crosses their path.

Im not of the school of thought that Liverpool will suddenly crumble next year with European football to contend with, Roger's has shown he is too good of a manager to fall in to that trap. His comments on managing players training and fitness are a testament to this, and the players you seem to target are of the required quality to supplement your talented yet thredbare squad for a challenge on all fronts.

However, it will be a shock to the system, and one that will need to be carefully managed. People slate Arsene for seemingly settling for 4th every year, I think Liverpool will begin to understand how hard that actually was in a league riddled with Oil money and proper European fixtures against the Elite of the continent.

Offline decky

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2989 on: February 25, 2014, 11:29:46 am »
Not really sure why this would matter to be honest.

The ability to decide if we have the ability to gain more points over the following 11 games than the teams above us isn't dependent on seeing us win the title previously.

I think it's related in that there are possibly a number of fans that are naturally pessimistic because they've never seen Liverpool win the league before

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2990 on: February 25, 2014, 11:31:47 am »
I think it's related in that there are possibly a number of fans that are naturally pessimistic because they've never seen Liverpool win the league before

Ah, I see.

Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2991 on: February 25, 2014, 11:33:36 am »
I dont think we'll need 10 wins. 7 wins should be enough if we win against both of them. Everyone will drop points, seen nothing this season to believe otherwise.

7 is not near enough to take the title for us this year. That's a min of 77 points.  I fully expect Chelsea to win at least 8 of their remaining games. Just look at their fixtures.  85 points is a fair target, which doesn't leave us much margin for error.

Offline Fowllah

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2992 on: February 25, 2014, 11:35:16 am »
The only reason I believe more now than I have for 17 years is we seem to be able to score more goals annd break down stubborn defences, therefore we're more capable of nicking results when we appear to be dropping points.

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2993 on: February 25, 2014, 11:40:14 am »
Just out of interest, how many people posting 'it's on', 'believe', 'it's ours to lose' etc etc...have actually seen us win the title?
What on earth does it have to do with anything? Life is to short and you make supporting a football team sound like a horrible chore where you must keep your feet on the ground at all times  :boring

Offline decky

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2994 on: February 25, 2014, 11:52:10 am »
A lot has changed in the past decade though. The quality of the league is much higher, there are now a group of 6 top class teams in the league every year and then you get the odd surprise package or two who go on unbelievable runs takling points of whoever crosses their path.

Im not of the school of thought that Liverpool will suddenly crumble next year with European football to contend with, Roger's has shown he is too good of a manager to fall in to that trap. His comments on managing players training and fitness are a testament to this, and the players you seem to target are of the required quality to supplement your talented yet thredbare squad for a challenge on all fronts.

However, it will be a shock to the system, and one that will need to be carefully managed. People slate Arsene for seemingly settling for 4th every year, I think Liverpool will begin to understand how hard that actually was in a league riddled with Oil money and proper European fixtures against the Elite of the continent.

I think how a team manage on those two fronts is definitely down to squad depth for a start, but it's also down to the manager as well. We competed in the Champions League year on year under Rafa and slowly improved our league performance in that time. For three or four of those seasons under him we genuinely thought we could win the CL and we were very close to winning the title in one of those years as well. We had a great first 11 but still lacked depth in the squad compared to others, but that didn't mean we settled for fourth every year.

That Liverpool side and this one have several ingredients Arsenal haven't had for ten years - belief, fight and tactical diversity. Both of those Liverpool sides got/get this from the manager and his coaching.

I think Wenger as a coach while an excellent one, has his limitations. I've never seen Arsenal pass a true test when it was asked of them in years and the manager has been shown up for his lack of willingness to adapt in Europe. I don't think those players believe they can win when it really, really matters and I believe that comes from the manager both in what he says and what he does in his approach to different types of matches,

This Liverpool team, with all its weaknesses, believe they can beat anybody and don't just go out to beat anybody - they go out to destroy them. That's why I think we can win the league this year. There are a lot of variables that will determine how we cope next season but if the owners invest wisely I see no reason why we should just 'settle for fourth' with this manager and the players we have here already.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2995 on: February 25, 2014, 11:52:56 am »
What on earth does it have to do with anything? Life is to short and you make supporting a football team sound like a horrible chore where you must keep your feet on the ground at all times  :boring
Says the man who is unremittingly negative in almost all of his posts ;D

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2996 on: February 25, 2014, 11:54:25 am »
If we can gather together a top notch 15 players, plus the youth and reserves, we will be in as much a position as anyone else considered a "contender".


In my view that would be too few...

In a situation where we're playing well enough to mount an even better title challenge next season we'd also be playing well enough to have to play more cup games [in both comp's] & also the additional CL games which we haven't played this season.

So, our total of games goes up from the 45 (ish) games for this season to say 60 games [an increase of 33%], we'd need a similar increase in squad size just to cope with rotations in games.

Even then, this season we've struggled a bit with injuries...wouldn't we need additional players to help us out when we have 2 - 3 players injured at the same time?

We're unlikely to get all the bodies we need in the summer...but my feeling is that we need 5 - 6 new quality players...not squad fillers
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Offline Chavvie

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2997 on: February 25, 2014, 11:59:38 am »
I think it's related in that there are possibly a number of fans that are naturally pessimistic because they've never seen Liverpool win the league before

Being pessimistic is understandable, but to marry that up with an over inflated opinion of other teams capabilites is negative and a bit mental.

The stats in Juan Loco's post should also (hopefully) sink in to the more cautious of minds

Offline Brentieke

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2998 on: February 25, 2014, 12:01:11 pm »
United and Spurs fans are now doing the sort of thing people on here have been doing the past X years. Looking 5 fixtures down the line and building up these ideas of "well if they only get 2 points from the next 12..." or "if we get 13 from 15...".

Let's get this right kids - statistically we've been closer to the three sides above us than we have the teams 'competing for 4th'. "Oh, but stats don't tell you the whole picture, you can twist them however you want". Well, "the league table doesn't lie" and all that nonsense. We're 6 points ahead of anyone else competing for 4th. That's 6 points with a +32 goal difference on Spurs. That's a three game swing over eleven games. Spurs, the closest challenger for 4th, need us to drop points in 3 more games than them between now and the end of the season. Everton need us to drop points in 3 more games than them between now and the end of the season. Manchester United need us to lose four more games than them. Over the next 11. Not draw. Lose. Do you know how many we've lost this season? 5. Do you know how many league games we've lost since the start of 2013? 8 in 45. I'll go back even further. Since United won at Anfield last season on the 23rd of September 2012, we've lost 10 games. Out of 60 in the league. That's not with Sturridge or Coutinho. That's Rodgers record besides the first 5 games. We aren't an easy team to beat. Haven't been in a long fucking time. More than long enough to say it's part of the Brendan Rodgers Liverpool DNA, not a streak. We've lost one set of back-to-back fixtures under Rodgers, and they were away to City and Chelsea. But hey, we must be fucking due a collapse, because that's what piss-pants logic dictates, right?

There is literally fucking nothing suggesting we're in a race for 4th instead of a title. I'm not even attempting to be an arrogant dickhead about it. It's just the only thing saying that is fucking cowards logic.

Practically every decent statistical model has us nailed on for top four. Our goal difference (usually a decent indicator) is 2nd best in the league. We're the only team to have kept even remotely within touching distance of City's goalscoring. This Liverpool team had scored more goals after 25 games than any of Arsene Wenger's Arsenal teams had. More than any of Ferguson's league winning teams had. More than any of Chelsea's teams. More than Keegan's Newcastle, more than fucking London club or Keegan's Newcastle. More than the 87-88 team. We're not lucky to be where we are. We're closer to the top than we are to anyone who thinks they're in a 'race for 4th'. We've been picking up 2 points a game steady enough for long over a year now. With Suarez, without Suarez. With Sturridge, without Sturridge. The only thing that doesn't look 'title contenders' about us is our defensive record. And y'know what? It's roughly in the same ball park as United's and Spurs' ones. Not that it fucking matters, because no team below us in the league has scored more than our front 3, never mind the rest of the team.

I'll just say this to end:

If the league had started January 1st 2014, we'd be top.

On December 25 2013, we were top.

Here's a fucking thought for you - maybe we are in a false position. But maybe it's not because we're 'due' to slip up or United or Spurs are ready to pounce and hanging in there. Maybe it's because we were unlucky having the two toughest fixtures in the calender back-to-back, over 3 days, during the most congested period in the calender? Maybe that's it. Because we were top of the league before those two games to the bankrolled pair. We're top of the form league since those two games. Maybe we are in a false position after all...

Or fucking maybe, just maybe I should be scared of the name of other clubs, or guard against optimism lest I look foolish for actually being bullish about what is one of the best teams in the country, whether you want to measure by form, underlining statistics, the league table, basic common sense gleaned from watching matches or anything else that isn't piss-pants cowards logic because you're scared to fail and think your posts on here matter a jot about what will happen between now and the end of the season.

Amazing post Juan, proves again why you're my favorite writer on RAWK.
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Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: Is it just a battle for 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st spot with 4 other teams now?
« Reply #2999 on: February 25, 2014, 12:04:09 pm »
I think it's related in that there are possibly a number of fans that are naturally pessimistic because they've never seen Liverpool win the league before

Not only that, but they've seen every Liverpool team in living memory falter whenever league success has become a genuine possibility.
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