Author Topic: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux  (Read 6857 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« on: December 8, 2004, 09:48:44 am »
It has been an eventful few months, to say the least. The title of this piece does not relate to a section of the Walton Breck Road; although a new crossroads down towards Stanley Park may at some stage lead to the 'new' Anfield. All the while it's still unclear whether that will be as sole tenants, or as a live-in landlord taking in an impoverished neighbour. In fact, nothing seems clear at Liverpool at the moment.

This week, it's still all 'kicking off'. Last week's AGM, with Steve Morgan and his wife's intervention made plenty of headlines (I'm sorry, but no one asked your husband to pay £300,000 in legal bills; you weren't offering to buy the club for altruistic reasons; it isn't exactly charity we are talking about). Now the L4 Consortium, with (alleged) Middle-Eastern investors, is poised to make some kind of offer for the club, with information on a take-over website.

In the middle of all this, heaven forbid, there's some football taking place (how dare the game itself get in the way of all that surrounds it?). The club finds itself in the middle of a run of tough league fixtures, and performances on the pitch have been hugely encouraging in the last three matches (including our young reserve team knocking out Spurs on their own patch in the Carling Cup). The Merseyside derby awaits this weekend.

And tonight sees the deciding game of this years Champions League group stage.

Well, it's a knock-out tie now. In the past the club would have drawn or narrowly lost the away leg, and needed to win by one or two goals to progress; so nothing new here. A 1-0 win will do, or if Olympiakos score, victory but a two-goal margin. I always feel happier with these situations than needing only to draw - this way you get a 100% positive, high-tempo performance (and the same enthusiasm from the crowd, too). Whatever the result, we will play well, and create chances. There's nothing to stop us doing to the Greeks what Arsenal did last night to Rosenberg.

The problem comes when 1-0 or 2-0 up, knowing a late Greek goal could eliminate us; clean sheets have been hard to come by recently. That said, we haven't conceded many at Anfield, and even Arsenal only managed one meaningful effort on our goal.

But even if we go out from winning 2-1, at least we can go out with our heads held high - in a transitional season, and without many key players during these group games, we couldn't expect to walk through a group that contained two of the top four teams in Europe last year; they may have been weakened, but they are still experienced. It won't be ideal, but it will be understandable; and in no small part down to a referee in Monaco who said he saw the blatant handball, but allowed Saviola to score all the same.

To boost our campaign, players are returning: Gerrard, and now Baros. Except Gerrard is now making the kind of statements Michael Owen was making a couple of years ago: progress and I stay, stagnate and I go. Owen went.

Over the summer, at the height of the frenzy, I declared that Gerrard would stay, for a variety of reasons; I was proved right (but only just). I also noted soon after that now he had admitted he was close to leaving, he had given licence to the media to speculate and speculate until eventually he did leave – perhaps partly due to their unsettling influence. I'm just not sure we needed this latest statement from the player himself.

In many ways, what Gerrard has said is no surprise, nor is it anything too outrageous. However, the timing of his comments is not at all welcome, ahead of such a big game (maybe he thinks it will inspire the troops, but that hardly seems the best way to go about it). I would like to remind him that he signed a new long-term deal this time last year; we were hardly heading for the summit at that point in time. Contracts might not mean a lot, but they mean something.

Gerrard says he can't wait another four years to be challenging, and I support that view; he said we should be in a position to do so next season, and I agree. I very much doubt we'll be favourites to win the league next year, of course, but we should have gelled as a team by then. Next season our aim is to challenge; but to win the league has to remain only a slight outside chance. Challenging is the key, as there will be three other sides well-equipped to walk away with the trophy come May.

Now should be the time to start thinking about who the club will buy (without delving into Championship Manager-style pipedreams; we are still not talking about US Defence-style mega-bucks budgets). Instead we will have to endure incessant rumours about Chelsea signing Steven Gerrard. At least if he does go, we can't say (unlike with Owen) we didn't see it coming.

For me, Michael Owen left at the right time for him as a player, at this stage of his career; the club was about to start it's third or fourth 'transitional period' since he broke into the first team, and it was a 'neat' end to his Liverpool career – a full-stop, if you will – in that it coincided with the end of a certain chapter of Liverpool's history (even if the way Owen left wasn't exactly 'neat', given its timing, etc.). The offer of Real Madrid will always be harder to turn down than the offer of Chelsea. He went with my reluctant blessing and understanding, although of course we could have done with keeping him.

Gerrard was always different – behind Owen in terms of service to the club, he hadn't been part of the Roy Evans reign, and his career kick-started almost two years after Owen's, both for club and country. In an article over the summer I said that Gerrard therefore 'owes' us two more years - because he signed that new long-term contract and should at least honour half of it, and because (unlike this summer) we'd have a better idea of where the club is headed. If we are still encountering false dawns when the player turns 27, fair enough.

Next season is the key one for Gerrard. This was always going to be a transitional season. Consistency was always going to be the main stumbling block with a new manager, new players, new ideas, and a whole raft of injuries. While new players were settling in, things were going to be tricky; injuries to established players only made that harder. Anyone who cannot see that has their head in the clouds.

Liverpool didn't have the luxury of making changes while 'on the up' - as Chelsea did. For all their headlines, Chelsea are doing no better at this stage of the season than they were last time around. They spent a lot more than us over the summer, and their rebuilding was to add to what was already working well (their best season for 50 years) - and not to solve problems of massive failure.

Chelsea can buy this winter, and buy next summer. Any problems can be solved with the chequebook. I'd be saddened if Gerrard wanted success on those terms. Success with Liverpool would always mean a hundred times more to him, surely? But if he does want to go, then it will allow us to strengthen in two or three positions; Gerrard is a phenomenal player, who ideally will stay at Liverpool beyond the next two years, but he is just one player. If he (and the rumours) starts to overshadow the club then, as we've seen with Everton, it can be more beneficial to let the player go. Our problem is that, unless we were to sell him to Spain, we will strengthen our title rivals in the process - whereas Everton and Man Utd (for all the illusions this season) have not shared the same ambitions for nearly twenty years.

Even with investment we will not be able to match Chelsea's spending power. But it doesn't need an absolute fortune; Arsenal have done so well under Arsene Wenger without spending anywhere near as much as Chelsea and Man Utd. Benitez proved at Valencia that it's not the money you spend but how you shape a team that matters. If we could find a few more like Xabi Alonso - world-class talent in the region of £10m - then that will help him greatly in his task. Trouble is, that kind of quality is not easy to find on a regular basis.

It is clear - beyond any doubt - that the club is looking for a large influx of cash, and that something will surely happen soon. Building a new team and a new stadium at the same time is never going to be easy; we need a surplus of money to be able to do both - pawning off one for the other is not the way forward, as you end up with a great stadium, but not the team fit to grace it. Look at Leicester and Derby - both mid-table Premiership sides when they started building new stadia; now financially-impaired mid-table Championship sides. We won't fall that far; but we can't afford to fall at all - we've already fallen far enough since 2002.

So far it's been anything but a smooth ride for Rafael Benitez. But there is nothing to suggest (injuries and myopic referees aside) that we cannot have an extremely good second half to the season, and find ourselves in pretty good shape come pre-season for 2005/06. Next year was always going to be the one that counted, as that's when we will get to see what Benitez is all about. The early signs have been mostly very encouraging; the football has been superb at times. Consistency is what we need, and that takes time.

© Paul Tomkins 2004
« Last Edit: December 8, 2004, 09:55:17 am by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Armin

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #1 on: December 8, 2004, 09:51:58 am »
Its going to be nerve wracking tonight :(  Knowing at 1-0 up that 1 from then would mean we needed to score two, unless we score 3 in 10m minutes I predict a night of sheer terror,  Why do we do this to ourselves :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #2 on: December 8, 2004, 09:59:22 am »
Its going to be nerve wracking tonight :(  Knowing at 1-0 up that 1 from then would mean we needed to score two, unless we score 3 in 10m minutes I predict a night of sheer terror,  Why do we do this to ourselves :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt :butt


But at least it's in our own hands. We know what we have to do... But tonight will not be a good one for the fingernails, methinks!

Offline cakmin

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #3 on: December 8, 2004, 10:18:07 am »
A good read as usual, cheers Paul.

On the SG8 matter, I have a mixed feeling at the moment.  :-\
I personally don't want to 'talk' anything on his 'possible' leaving, if he goes he goes, we will walk on as a team. As you said in the article, I just hope he doesn't move to another premiership team because that will certainly strengthen them.

Offline adamski

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #4 on: December 8, 2004, 10:34:11 am »
Perhaps a knee jerk reaction to Gerrard's comments, but I wish he'd have fucked off in the summer.  We can do without this shit.

Great article Paul.

Offline coltmanaman

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #5 on: December 8, 2004, 10:36:17 am »
Excellent read Paul.  Some excellent comments on Gerrard & Owen  :thumbup

Tonights game is so important - Come on you Redmen  :scarf

Offline docker

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #6 on: December 8, 2004, 10:41:16 am »
great read paul, gerrard maybe a bit demanding with his comments, i believe his position at the club ie under contract, captain, best player no question, is getting rafa into a position of can he handle him, i mean it must be difficult being manager, yet are you the boss? on another note, i might be wrong, but with haman out, isnt this the first game were gerard & alonso actually get to run the center of midfield together.
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Offline Alf

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #7 on: December 8, 2004, 10:53:59 am »
Good article. I said at the start of the season and still believe what you stated in your article that Steven Gerrard will give us until the end of the next season to establish ourselves as genuine title contenders. He wants to win the Premiership with LFC if he can but if not elsewhere but his comments on .tv this morning were both alarming and badly timed.

Offline LES

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My opinion on the Gerrard saga is that obviously i want him to stay as he is one of the best players in the world and a red, but should he decide to leave then we should get a healthy sum for him which in turn will give Raffa plenty of money and if he can bring in a few players of the class of alonso for that money then i feel we are in a win-win situation whatever happens.

Offline Ianjaig

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #9 on: December 8, 2004, 11:04:50 am »
There's nothing to stop us doing to the Greeks what Arsenal did last night to Rosenberg.
© Paul Tomkins 2004

Excellent article again Paul (no surprises there) ;)

Was at the Arsenal game last night (the missus scored free tickets) and whilst I would love us to beat the Greeks 5-1, I think its unlikely as last nights game resembled more of a training excercise for both teams rather than a competitive Champ league game. Rosenberg had nothing to play for and it showed - me thinks tonights game is gonna be a lot more competitive ::)
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #10 on: December 8, 2004, 11:16:23 am »
Cheers, people!


Was at the Arsenal game last night (the missus scored free tickets) and whilst I would love us to beat the Greeks 5-1, I think its unlikely as last nights game resembled more of a training excercise for both teams rather than a competitive Champ league game. Rosenberg had nothing to play for and it showed - me thinks tonights game is gonna be a lot more competitive ::)


I didn't realize Rosenberg had nothing to play for (should have paid more attention!), but sometimes they are harder games, as the pressure is off the opposition, and they end up nice and relaxed. Olympiakos may end up being more nervous, as they have a lot to lose.

That said, I'd rather we were playing Rosenberg!

Offline Obi Wan Gomi

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #11 on: December 8, 2004, 11:18:08 am »
Re: Gerrard's comments.

The problem here is that as club captain he is going to be at the press conferences we hold, and he is always bound to be asked about him leaving/ his ambitions. He's never going to shy away from saying he wants the best for Liverpool, and if he keeps quiet it'll only make the headlines worse. So he says, as Paul noted, nothing outrageous and the papers pick it up. Clearly the press want to unsettle him, they love their headlines and this would make a great one. Owen has left and is doing well, Rooney left, and no one wants to hear about Beckham any more - so Gerrard it is. I dont like it, but there's nothing we can do.
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Offline bradigor

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One of the things i heard 'Quoted' is that tonights game will help Stevie make his decision.

I don't understand that, if we go out tonight, he can't play in the Champions League for another team, so this season is a write off for him. If we make the CL again at the end of the season, he is in it again with us, therefore we have met is quota, because as part of his so called quote he has said he wants to play champions league football. Now i know there are other things, but that stuck out.

I am getting frustrated with this, i just want to enjoy the football.

Offline Big-Cisse

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I wish this topic would never appear anywhere ever, ever, ever again. What happened to the captain being the captain, the player who would be the least likely to go anywhere because he's, well, the bloody captain.

Does anyone else feel like its not Liverpool, but Chelsea who own Steven Gerrard? Almost like he's been loaned out to us and they can take him back whenever they feel they need to?

If all of these reports are genuine and have been put in the right context then I feel a bit gutted as im sure the players will which, on the day of sure a massive game cant be good in any sense.

We are not even 6 months into our new era and, and what he (Gerrard) says makes out that he's given it just about all the time that he is willing to. If thoughts like this are running through his head already then I feel it may already be a lost cause.

We are, technically, already palying knockout football in tonights match. I agree, if we dont win its very bad for the club, the fans, and the players. If we win, fantastic! But then what? will it be the end of all the speculation?

I seriously doubt it. We may only play two more games in the CL after tonight, and go out in the second round. What will happen before those games? will we be hit with bullshit like "If Liverpool dont get through to the quarter finals of the CL then Steven Gerrard will have to seriously consider his future at Anfield"?

We are currently teetering on an edge, at one side there is mediocrity - and at the other greatness. We can achieve the former overnight, but the latter takes the time and effort of everyone involved. I dont think anyone would disagree that if this fixture was a year from now that it would be a formality, though I doubt we would even be in such a procarious situation anyway.   

Offline Elisha Scott

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #14 on: December 8, 2004, 11:59:44 am »
Enjoyed reading that Paul.

To start with Olympiakos I agree with the draw scenario, players cant play in that. The problem tonight is that we cannot relax until we are THREE goals to the good, and without a fit first team striker available that is going to be difficult. Still I think we'll progress. We cannot and should not count on Depo who have nothing to play for, look at Barca last night.

I love Steven Gerarrd. But your right, this is Michael Owen all over again. The timing of our renaissance should not be stipulated by a player, that is not their remit. I cannot bear another season of veiled threats and ultimatums from one of our top players, it is destabilising to everyone else in the club. He must commit for the forseeable future and he will not do that. Given his lack of 100% unequivoval commitment I think the moneymen should be calculating the best way to play this to optimise our return on Stevie.

I think we as fans need more patience than Stevie has. Given the current squads of Chelsea, Arsenal and United it will take time before we can challenge for the Premiership.  We need a bigger squad and we must play as a complete, unified team.

« Last Edit: December 8, 2004, 12:02:01 pm by BloodRed »

Offline mercury

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #15 on: December 8, 2004, 01:43:48 pm »
mediocrity and state of flux: these words summarise all our fears.  Always so apt, Paul!

My take:

Hard business and money drives now.   while I appreciate the decision Gerrard took in summer , the saga plus that of Owen (I know the evidence is flimsy but my guts - based on his dithering and stories in YNWA site - told me he never intended to sign anything with us) kills all illusions of player loyalty in me.  If Gerrard wants to go, then go.   We can't tie him to the post of the Kop.  Let's get a good deal out of it.

I certainly do not believe if Gerrard goes we'll be consigned to mediocrity.  To be honest we've been in the woods for quite a while  - suffice to say we've not consistently challenged for our bread and butter for some years.   Whilst rants and rages in abundance, we did not have this fear of perpetual mediocrity until Chelsea became chels-ki.    though not as awesome as the likes of MU and Real we never worry our spending power and we have always pay our players well.   But RA's $$ change the whole dynamics of English football. What's more than enough seems out of league now.  This swings heads and arouses fears - notably that of Mr Gerrard. 

The Club has shown it will not just lay down and flow along.   We are adapting and changing things around - Rafa, looking at new money.  And perhaps the new, bigger stadium can be classified as one of these changes - it certainly is a response to MU's revnue power but Chels-ki make it even more sensible.  The Club intends to cross the river and the hands we are in - Rafa and Parry - are as good as any we could find!

My dream of 19th certainly did not and would not die.  Gerrard or not. 

Offline Esteban

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #16 on: December 8, 2004, 01:52:04 pm »
It seems as though a day doesn’t go by without Gerrard commenting on some aspect of the club. I thought it was out of order to say that David Moores was one of the reasons he stayed at the club – he literally walked straight into the Boardroom conflict with that little gem. I might be out on a limb here, but Gerrard is becoming too opinionated about the business side of Liverpool. Sure, we all want what he does, we all crave the success we used to enjoy in the 70s and 80s, but as it’s been said, time is the overriding factor here. Like any plan, you need to have milestones in place to get where you want to be. I’m not talking about five year plans from the  School of French Football Strategy, just a basic plan, the one where we start with the right man in charge, then let him buy the right players, gradually, over time.  How long will it be before we challenge for the title? Who knows. Does Gerrard know? He seems to know an awful lot these days – perhaps he does. Here’s the crux – we will be challenging for the title next year. We may not win the title next year, we may not win anything at all, but we will be better prepared, better equipped and hopefully, have several players who deserve the label of world class in the first XI – with or without Steven Gerrard.

For me, there’s something not right about the whole Gerrard affair (kind of like mentioning Phil Collins and ‘Greatest Hits’ in the same sentence). If he’s laying the foundations for his exit, then so be it. We won titles without him before, and we will do again. If he goes to Chelsea (which I think is what he wants ) then what kind of achievement will that be? Moving to the football equivalent of a Birds Eye ready meal – a team backed by unlimited spending power, able to attract top managers and top players without any effort whatsoever? Would success be sweeter at a club like that? I don’t think so.

We now have the right manager at the right time, and as many neutrals have said, the Premiership needs a reborn Liverpool FC, and that’s what it will get - in time. It would be nice to win the league with Gerrard as captain, but wouldn’t it also be great to win it without him?

Offline spicer

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #17 on: December 8, 2004, 02:34:10 pm »
Does anyone else think this is just childish petulance on Stevie's part because he was sent off early against Villa?? I think he thinks he knows better than the manager, he was just furious.
five feckin times!!!!!!

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #18 on: December 8, 2004, 03:22:18 pm »
Does anyone else think this is just childish petulance on Stevie's part because he was sent off early against Villa?? I think he thinks he knows better than the manager, he was just furious.


I doubt it, but I guess it's no surprise that the connection has been made. If he wants to take on Benitez in a power struggle he'll lose (but win in other ways, in that it would get him a move - if that's what he ultimately wants).

I wouldn't jump to those conclusions yet.

Offline kneejerk

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #19 on: December 8, 2004, 03:22:41 pm »
this was posted by nigdemo today. well said!



"Note to Mr Gerrard...

Dear Mr Gerrard.

Please take out your medal collection.

In it, you will find A UEFA Çup winners medal, an FA Cup Winners Medal, A European Super Cup Winners Medal, Two League Cup Winners Medals, and a fair few England Caps.

It is 4 years since you established yourself in the Liverpool side.

In those same 4 years, players at Man Utd have won 3 medals. Arsenal have won 4. Chelsea have won 0.

You want medals at the end of your career to show your family...

I'll leave you to figure out the rest..."




great article as per paul
« Last Edit: December 8, 2004, 03:24:31 pm by aldridge »
would like javier bardem to do the coin tosses at anfield

Offline didi

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #20 on: December 8, 2004, 04:21:00 pm »
thing that gets me though if his hellbent showing his kids medals, i know id be more proud of my Dad if he showed loyalty to his hometown and tried his best like a real fan would and help his local team succeed

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #21 on: December 8, 2004, 05:12:21 pm »
thing that gets me though if his hellbent showing his kids medals, i know id be more proud of my Dad if he showed loyalty to his hometown and tried his best like a real fan would and help his local team succeed


I do hate the 'show the grandkids my medals' quotes players make.

Phil Neville: shitloads of medals.
Paul Gascoigne: very few medals.

Who will be talked about in years to come?

Of course we want to see Liverpool winning trophies. Hopefully Gerrard will stay, and that will happen.

Offline hooded claw

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #22 on: December 8, 2004, 06:01:19 pm »
Call me old fashioned, but...
To be 'captain'- whether of your parks team or Liverpool Football Club- should mean several things. You should be the heart of the team, the one prepared to put your body on the line. You should be the one to grab your teammates by the scruff of the neck and haul them upwards, driving them to perform better and better. You are the leader, the eyes and ears and mind of your manager on the pitch. You owe the coach your loyalty (who made you captain, after all?).
Now no one could ever accuse Stevie of not playing with his heart on his sleeve. What sickens me though- in an age of 24-hour Sky Sports News, of the web, of salivating hacks all more eager than the last to grab another 'Exclusive!!!'- what appals me is the knowledge that knowing all this, our captain, our leader, our dynamo, will tell a press conference that “If we're moving forward and I'm successful at this club then I won't need to go anywhere else, but if things aren't looking good I'll have to see what happens in the summer,".
Loyalty?
Commitment?
These seem to be increasingly and unnervingly alien concepts to so many of today's pros. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that it happens here too. But when the earth on Emlyn Hughes' grave is still fresh, it's a poor representation of both our captain, and the business he earns so well from.


Offline Tosh

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #23 on: December 9, 2004, 11:41:33 am »
Anyone else see a lot of parallels to the Patrick Vieira situation? Arsenal managed to hold on to him.. fingers crossed we can do the same with Stevie.. but even if we do, will we ever be fully behind him, knowing he could be bought for the right price?

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #24 on: December 9, 2004, 03:47:12 pm »
Anyone else see a lot of parallels to the Patrick Vieira situation? Arsenal managed to hold on to him.. fingers crossed we can do the same with Stevie.. but even if we do, will we ever be fully behind him, knowing he could be bought for the right price?


Difference was that Arsenal were guaranteed the CL for the next few years, in that even if they fell apart they'd still manage to finish in the top four; and they are always in the hunt for major honours.

Of course, if Liverpool can do the same, Gerrard will have no reason to leave. Disappointed with his post-match interview when he sounded unconvinced about the chances of Liverpool getting to the point where we can win the league, etc.

Offline Tosh

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Re: The Anfield Crossroads - A Club In Flux
« Reply #25 on: December 9, 2004, 06:29:50 pm »

Difference was that Arsenal were guaranteed the CL for the next few years, in that even if they fell apart they'd still manage to finish in the top four; and they are always in the hunt for major honours.

Of course, if Liverpool can do the same, Gerrard will have no reason to leave. Disappointed with his post-match interview when he sounded unconvinced about the chances of Liverpool getting to the point where we can win the league, etc.

Right. To me there is another difference though, with Vieira he'd already won the Premiership twice with the Arse and their European form seemed to hint that maybe it was a team that could go no further... (yes, top of the Prem is pretty damn good, but he wanted a CL winners medal methinks).. whereas Liverpool are still going through changes that have already seen us vastly improve in just a couple of months. If Mr. Gerrard can't see that and isn't willing to wait it out even just one more of the 4 seasons he signed on for, then he doesn't have the spirit that I see when he plays.

As was said by Forza on another thread though, where are you guaranteed to win things? That's right.. nowhere. Madrid looked good for an historic treble half way through last season and fell to bits.. in fact they are still in a bit of a free fall. Chelsea could just as easily do the same thing (although I feel their squad has more youthful talent and depth than Real - galacticos of the past).