Author Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.  (Read 3733 times)

Offline Hinesy

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Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« on: August 30, 2012, 09:56:00 pm »
Thank fuck for that. Lets be honest, thank fuck we got that banana skin out the way. Speaking of slippy stuff, lets get some glue on Pepe's gloves.
Never thought I'd be saying bringing on Sterling would make a difference but it did.

Joe Allen already looks vital to our side and Lucas out for 3 months makes him ever more important. On the last day of the window, do we need better cover in that position now that Adam is out of favour and Shelvey isn't really the best person for the job in my opinion.

Suarez makes me laugh sometimes, misses an easy chance and then tucks away something from nothing.

Onto Archie's post below for the main discussion of this Round Table then.....
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 04:55:36 pm by hinesy »
Yep.

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 10:20:59 pm »
Vintage display. ;D

Alright. That wasn't good. No denying it.

Having said that - and to shamelessly steal a phrase from the man himself - there were some very encouraging 'patterns of play'. I think what tonight did show is that you really, really can't teach an old dog new tricks. And yes, I'm referring to Carragher.

It seems like the fashionable thing to do, but that is genuinely a concern. He's trying his utmost to acclimatise, but it's just not in him. Certainly not now.

OK, Rodgers has clearly slotted him one notch down in the pecking order behind Coates and that is something to be thankful for, but if we have aspirations of winning this competition (and the Capital One trophy) then I'm not convinced we can do it with him in the side. He's slow, he's laboured and he's an obvious target for the opposition every time he takes to the field.

The worrying thing was that Carragher wasn't even the most concerning area of the field tonight. Our frontline just isn't working right now imo. Yes, these things take time but as things stand, we've got a round hole and a variety of square pegs to fill in on the right. Each of them as awkward and disjointed as the last. Sterling is a sensation, but he's clearly more comfortable on the left. Borini is a tireless worker but looks like he'd welcome the opportunity of coming in from the left too (if he is to be stuck out wide at all). Assaidi? Maybe. Downing? I don't see it. We have one day and are currently being linked with two potential players that would slot seamlessly into this position. Fingers crossed we'll get one, as it's clear Rodgers has identified this area.

Positives? There were a few. The midfield worked well. They would have benefited, I feel, from having somebody stuck out wide more often to spread the play a little more. Particularly in the first half. Sterling offered us a different dimension in the second 45. Allen has been absolutely phenomenal. He's already one of the first names on our team sheet and the fact I'm already fearing we may become too dependant on him tells you everything you need to know. The lad has played three games for crying out loud! Shelvey, equally, impressed me again tonight. For all our patience and probing, he looks to have the ability to occasionally be a little more direct. He'll have a big part to play in our season.

Lastly... Downing at left back? The lad did very well. Would have helped if he'd had somebody with the ability of occupying the right full-back in front him more often than Henderson could manage.

Offline archie

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Liverpool 1 Hearts 1 (2-1) Round table
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 10:23:01 pm »
He's not brazilian, he's Joe Allen
He's not brazilian, he's Joe Allen
He's not brazilian, he's Joe Allen
And he plays for Liverpool    ;D

Indeed this young man is not Pele, but like the best players he makes it look simple. He also seems to be in the
right place at the right time all the time.

I felt we always had control in this game. We know what to expect now with Rodgers set up.

Hearts pressed well again but we restricted them to long range efforts (more on that later).
2nd half they didn't really know whether to stick or twist as we began to dominate a little more.

Thought Shelvey and Henderson were solid if not spectacular. Downing and Kelly worked hard with some hit and miss crossing at times.
Morgan worked hard, probably not his best position? Maybe unlucky with the disallowed goal, I haven't seen any good replays.
Sterling full of positivity when he arrived.

As with many games especially at the start of the season, we'll probably have some more questions than answers.

So discussion points.
Is Suarez more miss than hit so far this season? Trying too hard? (only he will know what was going through his head when he rounded the keeper)

Hearts were organised in numbers when defending. Will we have the same trouble this season breaking down 'lesser' teams?

There were a few times for me when we almost played into trouble. Are we running a risk of shipping avoidable goals on a regular basis?
Is it too much of a risk? (Do i even understand what I've just said?  ;D)

Pepe, what a howler.Is it the beginning of the end or can he come back stronger?

Has Llorente signed yet  ;)?





Offline Hinesy

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 11:36:47 pm »
Archie's discussion points are the main ones for this thread, so please discuss them :wave
Yep.

Offline StevenLFC

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 08:22:24 am »
I thought we looked pretty comfortable all night, right up until Pepe made his howler. Let's hope that's his major mistake for the season out of the way. We passed the ball well up until the final third, but once it got there we needed to be more clinical, Suarez being the main case in point.


Adam Morgan worked his socks off playing in the wider positions of the front three, but he looked a bit out of place. For me he's a centre forward who should play down the middle if & when he gets his next chance.


I thought Downing at left back worked, that is something we can use against the poorer sides at home. He looked ok defensively and proved to be a threat going forwards.


Finally, I am going to admit it now, I absolutely love Joe Allen. Serious man-crush going on! He pretty much runs the game every time he plays. His movement is fantastic and his head looks like its on a swivel, he knows what he's going to do with the ball before it's arrived. Also, he showed tonight that he can do the 'dirty' work of tracking back and breaking up the play.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 09:12:53 am »
I felt for those Hearts fans. I mean, beyond the taunting songs and all that, they're a decent enough bunch, paying tribute at the Hillsborough memorial being an example. They must have thought it was gonna be a famous night for them, and in a way I suppose it was. But Liverpool should have battered them. The finishing is getting beyond a joke. For Uruguay, Suarez scores four with those chances.

Allen's great, and the proposed part exchange of Henderson raised an eyebrow because I think he can do a great job in there, but for me the midfield is nailed down for the season now. That bit works well.

Pepe's bemusing me at the minute. He saved our bacon at Tynecastle, lest we forget, but that was a basic error wasn't it? He has that in his locker, but harumph. For me, as Garstonite says, Carragher's being eased out in a way that maybe keeps his ego in check, but it'll not help our chances in these other comps.

It's hard on Sterling, because he was scary when he came on again, but he's a young lad and naive enough to let the lad past him to get the shot away. The Man City players also exploited it at the weekend - one for him to work on maybe.

That said, the playing style isn't far off for me - it's the cutting edge issue again, but without the same worry in the middle of the park. I think pretty soon we'll be moving towards watertight at the back again. Downing at left back could be intriguing, although he's suspect under a high diagonal ball. I really like the way we're playing but we have to take chances - same old same old.

Felt for Morgan that the linesman spotted the ball had gone dead.

Offline No666

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 09:26:02 am »
Neither Henderson or Morgan are naturals for those positions and were never going to contribute goal-wise. In such a circumstance you can almost guarantee Suarez being that little bit too conscientious and 'over-thinking' his every attack. So the moment Sterling appeared with the weapon of pace to occupy the defenders, you could almost guarantee Suarez would score.
The aspect of our game I enjoyed most last night was the pressing. Gerrard seemed particularly good at picking the right moment to join a colleague in putting the squeeze on.
Oh - and another problem for Rodgers with this pesky European lark - I wondered if a percentage of focus from some of the team was on Sunday. Did anyone else get that impression or is it just my own nagging sacroiliac joint influencing my interpretation? But for me, Allen is commendable not only for his composure but for his ability to give 100 per cent in a match without any apparent sub-conscious twinge about a big upcoming game for which he wants to be fit and firing.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 09:33:25 am »
The aspect of our game I enjoyed most last night was the pressing. Gerrard seemed particularly good at picking the right moment to join a colleague in putting the squeeze on.

He was superb at it mate - I mentioned it a lot in my match report.  It is one of the reasons that I think he is retaining that midfield berth.  He has spent so long playing in dysfunctional midfields that never pressed the ball that it is easy to forget how bloody good at it the lad was all those years ago.
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Offline E2K

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 10:46:06 am »
there were some very encouraging 'patterns of play'

the playing style isn't far off for me - it's the cutting edge issue again, but without the same worry in the middle of the park. I think pretty soon we'll be moving towards watertight at the back again

These were my overriding feelings watching the game. It wasn’t a vintage performance by any means, but the fundamentals of how the team is trying to play were there all the same, they just weren’t executed consistently. I’m optimistic that the consistency will come in time (How long? Couldn’t tell you :) )

For example, I loved some of the passing that I saw from Shelvey but he was unable to exert his influence on the game across the full 90 minutes. I thought Gerrard had a good game overall, he pressed well but he was sloppy in possession at times too. Downing actually played well at left-back, I thought, and he looked way more positive than he does when he plays in the midfield. He put in two or three excellent crosses in the first half where he got past past the full-back and made space for himself, something he didn’t do often enough last season, possibly because he was arriving from a deeper position. It’s early days and I still don’t like the idea of him learning the position on the fly against better teams than Hearts, but it suddenly doesn’t seem as crazy a notion as it did last week.

Obviously, Joe Allen was excellent again. That’s starting to go without saying.

Suárez did some good things, I thought (less than five minutes for the first nutmeg, created and took his goal beautifully), but it was a wildly inconsistent performance and I can understand people being frustrated. Between this and Sunday (where he also played a few wayward passes and seemed afflicted with Baros-syndrome at times i.e. unable to lift his head), it’s clear that he’s not running at optimum. Some aspects of his game (the 'warts' you could say) are always going to be there, but he's better than he's shown so far this season. If I can pick up on something No666 said:

Neither Henderson or Morgan are naturals for those positions and were never going to contribute goal-wise. In such a circumstance you can almost guarantee Suarez being that little bit too conscientious and 'over-thinking' his every attack. So the moment Sterling appeared with the weapon of pace to occupy the defenders, you could almost guarantee Suarez would score

Suarez’s all-round performances would clearly benefit from having more quality and offensive weaponry around him. It’s something that could probably be said of all strikers, no matter how good they may be. With due respect to Adam Morgan and Jordan Henderson (the latter didn’t even appear to be playing in the front ‘3’ most of the time anyway) who worked hard but didn’t offer much in an attacking sense, Suarez shouldered pretty much all of the attacking burden last night until Sterling came on. I’m really hoping that if we bring in another quality forward today, or he can get on the same wavelength as the likes of Borini and Sterling as the season progresses, then his consistency in terms of both passing and scoring will improve. The longer he works with Rodgers too, hopefully. And since goals often beget goals, he might be able to get on something of a roll when that happens.

It’s a good point about breaking down teams that come to Anfield and defend in numbers. Last night called to my mind the FA Cup game against Reading in 2010 – we just couldn’t get going to any great extent and we conceded a jammy late goal. Thankfully it didn’t cost us on this occasion. Our struggles last night may have been down to being without a few key first-teamers. Nobody's going to make the case that our squad is deep enough not to miss the quality of Agger and Johnson, who would have surely given us more impetus going forward. Borini, too, is obviously a better player than Morgan, Sterling clearly made an impact when he came on and we also have Sahin and Assaidi to come in.

Again, I have to say that I thought the fundamentals were good and I have a gut-feeling that we’re waiting for a dam to burst here and eventually we’ll apply enough pressure and one or two teams are going to be swept away when it breaks, especially if we bring in the right kind of quality today. When that will happen is anybody’s guess but the signs are still good for this team despite an average enough performance last night.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 10:50:07 am by E2K »
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 11:32:09 am »
The ref was good, wasn't he? Let pretty much everything go.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 02:41:36 pm »
The ref was good, wasn't he? Let pretty much everything go.

Yes, he did and no, he wasn't. Well, he was good for us. Morgan should have had a yellow at least once, Allen should have had a yellow for his tackle from behind as the Hearts player was getting into the box (could have been worse) and they should have got their free. In general, I thought he did us a few favours.

Also, I just want to note that on about 85 minutes, Joe Allen took the ball into some traffic and two Hearts players robbed him. Since it may be some time before he loses the ball again, going on his performances so far, I think it's noteworthy.

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2012, 05:12:29 pm »
Can we move this across? Might be a nice distraction from the madness and we've got a game in two days!

Offline John C

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2012, 07:41:35 pm »
Thought Shelvey and Henderson were solid if not spectacular.
Yeah, thought the same, mindful that SG could appear in the PhysioRoom website more than RAWK in due course I keep a close eye on them both whenever they play wondering who will be best to help Allen who will no doubt start the team bus never mind every game. Both can be steady if not wonderful, and if Rodgers' team is to progress then he needs better from both. That's not a criticism its a reality check of what we need to escalate our league position.

Sahin however may have a massive say in that.

Suarez is Suarez, we established last season that you can't rely on him to score when a good opportunity arises, but I can't have a bad word said about him - he remains wonderful (and still greedy yorky). His game may differ if a new signing brings a new runner for him to pass to.

Felt sorry for Pepe, again he's beyond criticism imo currently.

It's still early days so the second team profile will change once again by next week when the new players get involved. However patchy our play has been for the last couple of weeks its irrelevant though, we've got at least 3 new regular starters to bolster the team and inject a different style.

I can't wait personally.


Offline archie

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2012, 07:53:26 pm »
Might be a nice distraction from the madness

Evidently not!

Come on people, quit gurning in the transfer thread, we want your views. Plenty of discussion points made in here what do you think?

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 (2)- Hearts 1 Europa League QF.
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2012, 08:55:11 pm »
Is Suarez more miss than hit so far this season? Trying too hard? (only he will know what was going through his head when he rounded the keeper)
To be perfectly hones, I think he had two terrible games, saved only by two wonder goals. I'm with Rhi, that's the striker's privilege, but really he should've done much better. Not only with his chances, but there at least two instances where he did all his 'stumble-football' (that's what the Ajax fans said about him, I like it) in the box and ended up to far to the side of the goal. Both times he had a teammate in brilliant position - Sterling straight in the middle of goal, the other time there were two players, Skrtel free for a header at the back post - both times he tied to squeeze it in by himself and missed. Skrtel gave him a mouthful, Sterling just looked loney and disappointed.

Hearts were organised in numbers when defending. Will we have the same trouble this season breaking down 'lesser' teams?
I sincerly hope we'll end up with soe other attacking option by the end of today. Either someone to stick them in, or someone out wide to create. Morgan did well, but he's still a bit off from featuring more regularly. Sterling looks our best option, and I'm scared we'll overplay him. Maybe Assaidi will help.

Also Sahin - that lad can pick a defence-splitting pass. I think he'll get Shelvey's place, so that we play Allen-Sahin-Gerrard in midfield. Both Allen and Sahin can run a midfield, we'll have both of them!! It also leaves Gerrard to roam a bit more, something he's really good at. He looked like he's on his way back to his best yesterday, lets hope he'll stay injury-free.

There were a few times for me when we almost played into trouble. Are we running a risk of shipping avoidable goals on a regular basis?
Is it too much of a risk? (Do i even understand what I've just said?  ;D)

Maybe for a transitional period. I think some of it will get better when there's more wide outlets. We seem to get into trouble when Reina's passing it short, and the receiving player hasn't got any good options to set up an attack. We keep passing it short in front of our box then, and I'm nearly always losing a nail. Interestingly Dortmund were incredible at fast breaks, and maybe Sahin will be able to transfer that into our side -  but we'll need fast forwards to pass to.

Pepe, what a howler.Is it the beginning of the end or can he come back stronger?
He isn't that old for a goalie, so it must be a form thing. He hasn't looked his best since Valero's left. I'd really like to see another goalkeeper coach come in.
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