Author Topic: Sterling (*)  (Read 457785 times)

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #160 on: April 1, 2015, 08:23:07 pm »
Give me a break. Skrtel was atrocious until the back 3, Coutinho only turned it around from January onwards and Can wasn't featuring till the back 3 either.

Sterling has been on form since game 1 and has played everywhere well. Anybody who tries to demean the lad's ability and potential is just kidding themselves.

If you're miffed about the talk of him leaving and want him gone for that then just say it. I'm personally tired of the revisionism though.

His finishing isn't great though. That's not demeaning, that's fact, both statistically and technically. It's one area where he has a lot of scope for improvement. I agree he has been our best player (or at the very least, our best attacker) all season, and the numbers back that up. But in the bigger picture, in terms of "wanting to win more", he is at least partially responsible for that as a player. And as an attacker, he has been in enough situations to over the last season and a half to make that winning happen. At 20, to have that amount of hubris about your career when it hasn't even really started, leaves yourself open to criticism of your technical flaws. And Sterling has technical flaws.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #161 on: April 1, 2015, 08:23:28 pm »
What is his current wage meant to be?

Offline Halcyon Lissome

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #162 on: April 1, 2015, 08:23:49 pm »
Our best player? So what about Sturridge, Coutinho and to an extent Henderson?

Sturridge is the only one comparable and better (when fit). Coutinho has been a half-season player in his career thus far. Henderson's not even in the same tier in terms of quality or importance to compare.

For us going forward, we have to keep Sturridge, Coutinho and Sterling. They are our exceptional talent; everybody else we can replace without breaking the bank or needing needle-in-the-haystack kind of luck to find.
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Offline Saint Kopite

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #163 on: April 1, 2015, 08:23:56 pm »
Not surprised one bit. This was bound to happen. Will happen with Coutinho as well.

Raheem has every right to demand as much wages as he can. This season, he has been our best player and in terms of talent and potential, he is our best player as well. Sturridge is better, yes but Sturridge is also injury-prone. So, Raheem demanding as much wages as Sturridge isn't really something we should be surprised about! He has been our best player this season and is demanding wages based on that!



At some point, we, the fans have to accept it. We can't just live in the past and expect every talented player to dream about playing for us. Raheem and his reps know there is high demand for him. The United fans, Chelsea fans, City fans and Arsenal fans I know and have talked with, would happily pay over the top to have Raheem in their team.

You can't always try to pay the right price. Sometimes you get lucky and underpay and most of the times, you have to overpay. If you don't, you end up being mediocre. Had we been at least challenging for trophies, we would have had some sort of leverage. But, when you don't challenge for trophies consistently, you end up paying that extra "tax" to attract the good players. Because, from a neutral's point of view, why shouldn't Raheem sign with Arsenal who would offer slightly less wages than we would if not almost as much wages as we would, but have been much more consistent with their UEFA Champions League participation?
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Offline El Denzel Pepito

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #164 on: April 1, 2015, 08:24:12 pm »
We shouldn't become a selling club.

As hard as it is to accept, we already are. Top performers for us tend to move on to 'bigger' clubs very soon after their best form for us.

Arbeloa - Real Madrid
Mascherano - Barcelona
Alonso - Real Madrid
Benayoun - Chelsea
Meireles - Chelsea
Torres - Chelsea
Suarez - Barcelona

Maybe slightly contentious in the case of Arbeloa, who we may have been looking to offload (not sure why) by buying Johnson, but the rest were lured away - some due to the fact we don't match their ambitions.

Offline Mamadou

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #165 on: April 1, 2015, 08:24:35 pm »
What? So our issue is creating one of the best 20yr olds we've seen in the PL, and having him tied down for over another 2 years?

I'm really struggling to figure out your stance about this situation
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Offline McSquared

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #166 on: April 1, 2015, 08:24:40 pm »
Ibe looks to have a higher ceiling. Wouldn't be too fussed if we had a good offer for Sterling and we cashed in

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #167 on: April 1, 2015, 08:25:19 pm »
Not surprised one bit. This was bound to happen. Will happen with Coutinho as well.

It will happen with the guy who has just signed up for the next 4 or 5 years at £70k a week?

Offline hollger

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #168 on: April 1, 2015, 08:25:41 pm »
Not surprised one bit. This was bound to happen. Will happen with Coutinho as well.

Just signed a new long-term deal, is paid less than 100k a week.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #169 on: April 1, 2015, 08:26:17 pm »
Ibe looks to have a higher ceiling. Wouldn't be too fussed if we had a good offer for Sterling and we cashed in

I'm not sure either way on that, but what Ibe DOES have is the same raw materials as Sterling at the same age. Although Ibe has a MUCH better shot on him.
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Offline McSquared

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #170 on: April 1, 2015, 08:26:35 pm »
What is his current wage meant to be?

Just the 35k a week. earns more in a year than the average person does in a lifetime

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #171 on: April 1, 2015, 08:27:18 pm »
I'm really struggling to figure out your stance about this situation

My stance is the club and Sterling will do a deal on a wage which will make him the highest paid U23 player in the world, although it will be above what the club wanted to pay and below what Sterling's agent to get.

The guy is a developing player, a fucking good one, but he isn't the biggest star at the club yet, he isn't the best player, and he isn't the finished article. I don't want us to sell, and I don't think we will, nor do I think he wants to move at the moment.

Offline Saint Kopite

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #172 on: April 1, 2015, 08:27:33 pm »
It will happen with the guy who has just signed up for the next 4 or 5 years at £70k a week?

The contract means fuck all, really. Luis signed a new contract last Christmas. What happened in the summer? If Phil performs consistently like he has performed in the last couple of months, there would be plenty of interest for him as well and like all players naturally, he would want a better contract.
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Offline SquirrelandGman

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #173 on: April 1, 2015, 08:27:58 pm »
Give him the money so he could stfu.

We've lost Suarez and now Gerrard in a matter of 2 seasons. You can't expect world class players to stay if there's no on else there.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #174 on: April 1, 2015, 08:28:06 pm »
Ibe looks to have a higher ceiling. Wouldn't be too fussed if we had a good offer for Sterling and we cashed in

But that's like saying Messi has a higher ceiling than Neymar/Suarez, so cash in on them.

LFC always has 1-3 players far above some of their team mates, it's about time we built a team which Rodgers seems to be doing
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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #175 on: April 1, 2015, 08:28:18 pm »
Sterling has been good for 12 months.

12 months.

That doesn't get you a £150,000 a week contract I'm afraid. It shouldn't even get you a £100,000 a week deal so to be honest whatever he has been offered is far more than he should be offered.

If he doesn't sign, sell him for mega bucks and buy someone who wants to work hard on being a great player, not demanding ransom money as a 20 year old.
He's done nothing but work hard on being a great player since he's been at the club.
His attitude and his professionalism have been excellent, not least for someone so young.
He's been played all over the shop without a word of complaint from him, and I've never seen him give anything less than 100% on the pitch. And I think he's played more minutes than anyone else in the team.

His age has nothing to do with what his worth, unless we're talking about potential. The contract isn't based on what he's done so far, it's about what he can offer us in the future.
He's an excellent player now, and will be an excellent player for the foreseeable future. And if the club is serious about keeping our best players then it needs to do what it has to do to hold on to them.
It's hard enough attracting the best players to come here in the first place. In Sterling we have a player who's already here, and we're lucky to have him.

Put it this way...
If Sterling was playing for Barca or Bayern now, and we had the chance to sign him. Are you saying £100,000 a week would be too much?
If we were to back out of a deal like that for one of Europe's best young players, there'd be loads on here moaning about the club's lack of ambition.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #176 on: April 1, 2015, 08:28:31 pm »
The contract means fuck all, really. Luis signed a new contract last Christmas. What happened in the summer? If Phil performs consistently like he has performed in the last couple of months, there would be plenty of interest for him as well and like all players naturally, he would want a better contract.

Suarez had a buyout clause, which is very much not the norm for us, this was agreed after we managed to keep hold of him the summer before even though he wanted out.

He then only got a better contract after half a season which saw him break all sorts of scoring records.

Offline Greyfox

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #177 on: April 1, 2015, 08:29:25 pm »
We wont just roll over and pay up in excess of £140k for in excess of five years.

Not when Jordan Ibe is around and showing out.

FSG will sell.... and they wont sell to an English Club ala the Suarez situation..

Offline Halcyon Lissome

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #178 on: April 1, 2015, 08:29:30 pm »
His finishing isn't great though. That's not demeaning, that's fact, both statistically and technically. It's one area where he has a lot of scope for improvement. I agree he has been our best player (or at the very least, our best attacker) all season, and the numbers back that up. But in the bigger picture, in terms of "wanting to win more", he is at least partially responsible for that as a player. And as an attacker, he has been in enough situations to over the last season and a half to make that winning happen. At 20, to have that amount of hubris about your career when it hasn't even really started, leaves yourself open to criticism of your technical flaws. And Sterling has technical flaws.

He's not a striker and he's only 20; so it's not entirely important at this stage. Statistically Sterling is Hazard minus the penalties and plus versatility. On that standard, he's worth every penny if not more because he is younger and is English.

It's not demeaning to say he can improve; but it's incredulous for people to pretend he is a dime a dozen player who we still can't really be sure about. Lad's going to be a star; he's the closest thing you can get to an assurance for someone his age. He's already one of the best players in the league and if he improves only a little bit in the next 5 years he'll be in the running for POTY honours.

Part of creating a title-winning team is to keep the core talent. There's no point bringing someone like Sterling through then to break down negotiations due to a bit of money. If we wanted to replace Sterling for the qualities he brings right now we'd be talking about a 40m player and that might even be conservative. That player will also want a wage similar to what Sterling is asking for.

And that's on the off chance said player will even consider Liverpool ahead of many other clubs. We already have him here, young, our guy. I repeat, if this deal fucks up heads should roll.
« Last Edit: April 1, 2015, 08:35:16 pm by Halcyon Lissome »
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Offline B0151?

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #179 on: April 1, 2015, 08:29:32 pm »
Think he'll end up staying. Hope I'm right. There are a lot of contract dramas that end up in extensions. Gerrard comes to mind.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #180 on: April 1, 2015, 08:29:42 pm »
Imo, it's all about the money and we won't break the salary structure for him.
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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #181 on: April 1, 2015, 08:30:07 pm »
No I agree I wouldn't either if I was him, but this whole ordeal has been started by HIS agent going the papers in Oct/Nov thinking he could easily manipulate the press and the club into giving Sterling a massive deal, and all he has done is create this constant pressure on Sterling which is back firing massively.

I'm also not sure if not being in the CL next season, at the age of 20, is that big an issue for his development, which is what he should be concerned about right now above all else. He can have over a decade in that if he develops over the next 18-24 months, probably at clubs or club which will win it a handful of times.
Again I agree with every word. But at 20 he will be using almost none of his brain and his agent will be after one thing.
I personally never take it personally when a player leaves as long as they gave 100% while they were in our shirt.

Offline Michel

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #182 on: April 1, 2015, 08:30:14 pm »
He's done nothing but work hard on being a great player since he's been at the club.
His attitude and his professionalism have been excellent, not least for someone so young.
He's been played all over the shop without a word of complaint from him, and I've never seen him give anything less than 100% on the pitch. And I think he's played more minutes than anyone else in the team.

His age has nothing to do with what his worth, unless we're talking about potential. The contract isn't based on what he's done so far, it's about what he can offer us in the future.
He's an excellent player now, and will be an excellent player for the foreseeable future. And if the club is serious about keeping our best players then it needs to do what it has to do to hold on to them.
It's hard enough attracting the best players to come here in the first place. In Sterling we have a player who's already here, and we're lucky to have him.

Put it this way...
If Sterling was playing for Barca or Bayern now, and we had the chance to sign him. Are you saying £100,000 a week would be too much?
If we were to back out of a deal like that for one of Europe's best young players, there'd be loads on here moaning about the club's lack of ambition.

He rejected the 100K.

Offline robgomm

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #183 on: April 1, 2015, 08:30:23 pm »
I don't doubt there's a lot on Sterling/his team but it would be ridiculous and negligent to lose this lad this early. I just have this sense that we are not getting contracts bob on, with our own or with transfers. It's a mixed bag over the last couple of years for me.

But nevertheless, Sterling's interview is dumb given the timing and what Rodgers said recently. There just seems to be some appalling inability to communicate here.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #184 on: April 1, 2015, 08:30:29 pm »
Its a mad interview at a mad time. He clearly has done it to try to get the fans off his back but it only serves to question his commitment at the club which makes things even worse.

Its amazing to think what a 20 year old can demand and even more amazing if anyone sympathises with him. He became a fully fledged first 11 player from Feb 2014 so its only been in a year and in that time the club came 2nd and were in a semi final and are a game away from another semi final. He is no way qualified or right in demanding trophies and his first full season has seen him in the CL.

Also this position thing is bollocks. Very few if anyone would have trusted him to play at the tip of the diamond the way we had. We gave him the trust and belief.

He will go i reckon but its not like losing Suarez or Alonso. He isnt the finished article.

Offline McSquared

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #185 on: April 1, 2015, 08:30:34 pm »
But that's like saying Messi has a higher ceiling than Neymar/Suarez, so cash in on them.

LFC always has 1-3 players far above some of their team mates, it's about time we built a team which Rodgers seems to be doing

Don't get me wrong. If i wants to play for Liverpool, then that's all good, but it doesn't look that way from his interview. Would prefer to develop Ibe and spend the money on a different position if he has eyes for Arse or the likes

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #186 on: April 1, 2015, 08:31:10 pm »
Sterling has been good for 12 months.

12 months.

That doesn't get you a £150,000 a week contract I'm afraid. It shouldn't even get you a £100,000 a week deal so to be honest whatever he has been offered is far more than he should be offered.

If he doesn't sign, sell him for mega bucks and buy someone who wants to work hard on being a great player, not demanding ransom money as a 20 year old.

This actually...is he REALLY good enough at this age?

Offline BER

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #187 on: April 1, 2015, 08:32:20 pm »
Steady!

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #188 on: April 1, 2015, 08:32:40 pm »
Ibe looks to have a higher ceiling. Wouldn't be too fussed if we had a good offer for Sterling and we cashed in

What makes you say that?

Personally they look like they have similar talent levels to me. Ibe is more powerful though.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #189 on: April 1, 2015, 08:32:58 pm »
I wonder what Brendan thinks about the interview?

I guess the interview wasn't sanctioned by the club. I would be livid if I was Brendan. Livid that the lad has been put in such a situation. His advisers want put against a wall and shot. This interview endears him to no one, imo.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #190 on: April 1, 2015, 08:33:04 pm »
Just the 35k a week. earns more in a year than the average person does in a lifetime

The average person doesn't perform his job in front of (and carry the hopes & dreams of) 40,000+ people each week, plus millions around the world.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #191 on: April 1, 2015, 08:33:21 pm »
He owes the club at least a discount for giving him the chance at 17 and all the time necessary to develop properly under a manager who was helping him even when he was having off-field issues by giving him time off to sort his life out. If he ends up leaving and it turns out he never gave us a discount or a pole position in negotiations then that would be very disappointing on his part.
Nonsense. Lots of clubs would have been happy to have him, we just offered the most money.
Everything the club has done for him was in it's own best interests, not because they thought he was a nice lad or they felt sorry for him. And that investment has been returned in spades.

Had he gone to Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. he still would have turned out to be a good player, let's not kid ourselves.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #192 on: April 1, 2015, 08:34:08 pm »
I'm a bit torn on the whole situation, to be honest.

First things first, this is a terrible interview - it's horrific timing and its massively disrespectful to the club and his teammates. Others may point to the fact that he says things along the lines of "nothing has been decided" and that the discussions will resume in the summer but make no mistake about the intent behind this interview. It will be an awkward dressing room on Saturday.

On to the bigger picture. IF (and I find it a massive fucking stretch) this isn't solely about money and it's only about ambition, then I can to an extent see the logic. Taking off the red-tinted glasses and looking at the situation a bit more objectively, to the rest of the world and to players LFC of recent years is a club that tends to sell their best players (maybe forcing them to stay one year longer than they want to), attempt to replace them with younger, cheaper players with potential. I know the Arsenal shouts have been met with derision by most, but footballers will look at Arsenal buying in players the calibre of Ozil and Sanchez compared to our transfer policy which seems to be exclusively based on potential that may never be realised or overpriced PL players, and you can see a discrepancy. We can argue the toss about what "ambition" really means when footballers say it, but usually they are talking about the players a club brings in and that they will get to play with.

That said, Sterling is 20 years old and in the grand scheme of things has achieved fuck all. To date he doesn't even have a full season of top class performances under his belt. He's had patches of incredible form (notably last season where he benefited massively from the space and time afforded to him from defences focusing on SAS) and frankly this season he's been inconsistent. He's been our main man but that's more of an indictment on our squad depth and form this year than a comment on how well he's played. If he was playing out of skin and had the consistency to back it up while the other players around him were playing poorly then I could understand but I personally reckon 2-3 players have been better than him this season (certainly since the change of formation).

I don't think he'll sign a new contract in the summer, and I think the club will absolutely look to sell him on. The only way I see him going to City is if they offer him silly money (very possible) as it's clear he's a London boy. I think the only possible way that he doesn't leave is if we win the FA Cup, and even then it's a stretch. I think it's pretty clear from the tone and timing of the interview that he's had his head turned and has no intention of signing the contract, but he's left enough ambiguity about it so that he's not completely burning his bridges.

It sounds a strange thing to say, but while I think it would be incredibly difficult to replace Sterling's raw talent and potential, I don't think it would be particularly difficult to replace his contribution to the team at present. Well, in theory it wouldn't be difficult, whether this club and transfer committee could manage it is an entirely different discussion.

Offline RichardM

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #193 on: April 1, 2015, 08:34:15 pm »
Gonna hurt if he goes, has to be said. With that in mind though, he doesn't deserve any more than what Phil has just been offered.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #194 on: April 1, 2015, 08:34:23 pm »
Choosing my words very carefully

Taking the loyalty side of it out and his youth. Even taking his current form out of it.

I just dont understand why he's chosen now to speak out. The club have tabled an offer (close to a 'take-it-or-leave-it offer). Thats been rejected and talks are on hold until the end of the season. Why go to the BBC and be so candid? I just dont get it

He got so much abuse from our fans against the mancs. What makes him think this is going to help him?

Just hugely disrespectful. To the club, his clubmates, the coaching staff and the fans

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #195 on: April 1, 2015, 08:34:25 pm »
What makes you say that?

Personally they look like they have similar talent levels to me. Ibe is more powerful though.

My impression is that Ibe is a bit more rapid, more willing to take on a man and has a better shot. He is obviously more raw than Sterling, but there isn't a huge gap

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #196 on: April 1, 2015, 08:34:37 pm »
I can see the future.

Saturday 4th April 2015. 15:40 - Raheem Sterling has not scored a hat trick against Arsenal at The Emirates. A stadium Liverpool FC has won at once since it was built. RAWK goes into meltdown "His heads already at Arsenal", "Fucking shite Sterling", "He's not worth £150, never mind £150,000"
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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #197 on: April 1, 2015, 08:34:38 pm »
He's not a striker and he's only 20; so it's not entirely important at this stage. Statistically Sterling is Hazard minus the penalties and plus versatility. On that standard, he's worth every penny if not more because he is younger and is English.

It's not demeaning to say he can improve; but it's incredulous for people to pretend he is a dime a dozen payer who we still can't really be sure about. Lad's going to be a star; he's the closest thing you can get to an assurance for someone his age. He's already one of the best players in the league and if he improves only a little bit in the next 5 years he'll be in the running for POTY honours.

Part of creating a title-winning team is to keep the core talent. There's no point bringing someone like Sterling through then to break down negotiations due to a bit of money. If we wanted to replace Sterling for the qualities he brings right now we'd be talking about a 40m player and that might even be conservative. That player will also want a wage similar to what Sterling is asking for.

And that's on the off chance said player will even consider Liverpool ahead of many other clubs. We already have him here, young, our guy. I repeat, if this deal fucks up heads should roll.

Statistically this season you mean Sterling is equal with Hazard I presume? Because statistically overall Hazard is miles better, and minus the stats if you just watch a game of football hazard looks the more dangerous and better attacker, who would be worth 150k a week.

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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #198 on: April 1, 2015, 08:34:51 pm »
Suarez had a buyout clause, which is very much not the norm for us, this was agreed after we managed to keep hold of him the summer before even though he wanted out.

He then only got a better contract after half a season which saw him break all sorts of scoring records.

My point was, contracts in current transfer market means fuck all. If Phil plays like he has been in the last few months consistently for a year or so, teams would be vying to have him in their team and then we would have no option but to offer him a new and improved contract.
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Re: Sterling (*)
« Reply #199 on: April 1, 2015, 08:35:05 pm »
He's not a striker and he's only 20; so it's not entirely important at this stage. Statistically Sterling is Hazard minus the penalties and plus versatility. On that standard, he's worth every penny if not more because he is younger and is English.

It's not demeaning to say he can't improve; but it's incredulous for people to pretend he is a dime a dozen payer who we still can't really be sure about. Lad's going to be a star; he's the closest thing you can get to an assurance for someone his age. He's already one of the best players in the league and if he improves only a little bit in the next 5 years he'll be in the running for POTY honours.

Part of creating a title-winning team is to keep the core talent. There's no point bringing someone like Sterling through then to break down negotiations due to a bit of money. If we wanted to replace Sterling for the qualities he brings right now we'd be talking about a 40m player and that might even be conservative. That player will also want a wage similar to what Sterling is asking for.

And that's on the off chance said player will even consider Liverpool ahead of many other clubs. We already have him here, young, our guy. I repeat, if this deal fucks up heads should roll.

I've no interest in the money part of it. My point is that he's a technically flawed player who has hinted that he would leave Liverpool to win trophies. My counter-point to that is that he is not yet at the stage where he can throw that out as a caveat when he is in fact in a position to improve his game enough at Liverpool to win said trophies. There are a lot of conversations going on about it here, but mine isn't really concerned with the money aspect. Mine is concerned with yet another young player demanding more than their talent has actually achieved yet. Right now as a player, he is on the level of Coutinho in terms of end product, although he has more consistency. Give Ibe a season as a starter, and I would predict that he would post similar numbers to Sterling by the end of it. What defines players in attack is their goals, when it comes down to it. Assists follow that. Beyond assists, it gets more technical than statistical. I'm only concerned with the technical and statistical argument (just so we can talk on those terms, so you don't think I'm lumping in his wage demands into the argument).
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