Author Topic: How far away are we really? Why good outweighs bad yet isn't seen on the pitch  (Read 396482 times)

Offline elpistolero7

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Yeah, but the exchange rates, Torben. That would mess us up. Some RAWKites would be paying in Lira. :D

Zlatan can use any currency anywhere.  ;D
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Offline TSC

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Thank you sir, and you are sooooo right. There is no "model". FSG have been improvising since they've been here. Waste of time and money and resources. (I have no problem with them on the commercial side of things). I would've thought when you spend 300m or whatever it was on something you know absolutely nothing about you'd want to surround yourself with experienced world class advisors asap and not call the Billy Beans of the world.

When you posted that article about Dortmund I was thinking, "this shouldn't be "news". This should be business as usual for us.

Here's one metric I'm pulling out of my Derriere-o-matic 2015: For every £1m you invest in scouting you'll probably get 10 times the return if not more.

Funny how scouting is of paramount importance in baseball yet our management is not paying enough attention to it. It boggles the mind. If only there was Sabermetrics for management.  :-[

What's Cafu doing these days? Maybe we should get him on the payroll in Brazil. I'm sure he knows a few people down there.   ::)


I personally have no confidence in them.  And I'm talking in terms of acting in the interests of LFC.  I don't think they have a clue.  But also I don't think they give much of a toss either.  As long as the dosh comes rolling in via TV etc that'll do.  They don't need us to be successful for them to keep earning money don't forget.

Under these and while they won't pay wages we'll always be destined to have these circular debates re where we're going.  You could say they never hid their intentions.  They always said they want the club to be self sufficient.  But there were also a few blusterfucks threw in too.  Like we would compete with any team for top players.  Lol.  Can't even keep our own players under them never mind compete with other top clubs for top players.

Wasn't it Cecil who commented on them and said the only positive re them is that 'they exist'.  To be fair they were the only buyers on the block at the time. 

We would all love some season ticket holder who's minted to buy us.  But not happening.  So stuck with this mob.  They have absolutely zero interest in us in respect of football and winning stuff.  But they bought us for a song and are now seeing the TV dosh come rolling in.

Offline elpistolero7

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I personally have no confidence in them.  And I'm talking in terms of acting in the interests of LFC.  I don't think they have a clue.  But also I don't think they give much of a toss either.  As long as the dosh comes rolling in via TV etc that'll do.  They don't need us to be successful for them to keep earning money don't forget.

Under these and while they won't pay wages we'll always be destined to have these circular debates re where we're going.  You could say they never hid their intentions.  They always said they want the club to be self sufficient.  But there were also a few blusterfucks threw in too.  Like we would compete with any team for top players.  Lol.  Can't even keep our own players under them never mind compete with other top clubs for top players.

Wasn't it Cecil who commented on them and said the only positive re them is that 'they exist'.  To be fair they were the only buyers on the block at the time. 

We would all love some season ticket holder who's minted to buy us.  But not happening.  So stuck with this mob.  They have absolutely zero interest in us in respect of football and winning stuff.  But they bought us for a song and are now seeing the TV dosh come rolling in.

That's a load of horse shit. Why are they investing in a new stadium? Why have they spent their own money to finance transfers?

They're not stupid, a good team on the pitch is better for them when it comes to sale time...this mentality of blaming everything on the owners is shocking. If Rodgers and the committee had done anywhere near a competent job with the 100 million given to them this summer, you wouldn't have said any of that.
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Offline TSC

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That's a load of horse shit. Why are they investing in a new stadium? Why have they spent their own money to finance transfers?

They're not stupid, a good team on the pitch is better for them when it comes to sale time...this mentality of blaming everything on the owners is shocking. If Rodgers and the committee had done anywhere near a competent job with the 100 million given to them this summer, you wouldn't have said any of that.

What new stadium?  They're increasing capacity by 8000, 4000 of which will be 'corporates' I.e. maximum revenue.  What £100m?  Nonsense.  They put the usual £20m in as they do every year.  Totally inadequate as usual.  Most of the 'budget' came from Suarez sale.  By the way they put the committee in place.  Ultimately they're the owners.  Buck stops with them.  They're useless.

Offline BarryCrocker

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What new stadium?  They're increasing capacity by 8000, 4000 of which will be 'corporates' I.e. maximum revenue.  What £100m?  Nonsense.  They put the usual £20m in as they do every year.  Totally inadequate as usual.  Most of the 'budget' came from Suarez sale.  By the way they put the committee in place.  Ultimately they're the owners.  Buck stops with them.  They're useless.

They could have pocketed the Suarez money but they didn't.

Got any suggestions on who would be better owners? And what they could have done differently?
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Offline Max_powers

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They could have pocketed the Suarez money but they didn't.

Got any suggestions on who would be better owners? And what they could have done differently?

Some people want us to turn into City or Chelsea. FSG have spent a fair amount of money. Even when the club has posted massive losses for most part over past few years.

Offline Fiasco

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Some people want us to turn into City or Chelsea. FSG have spent a fair amount of money. Even when the club has posted massive losses for most part over past few years.

People want us to be like City and Chelsea without doing it the way they did. Which, in this day and age, is practically impossible. FSG aren't perfect, no owners are. But they are doing a good job and if they hadn't have saved us from the leeches then fuck knows where we would be right now.

We've had enough money to compete. We've just wasted it, by and large.

Offline elpistolero7

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What new stadium?  They're increasing capacity by 8000, 4000 of which will be 'corporates' I.e. maximum revenue.  What £100m?  Nonsense.  They put the usual £20m in as they do every year.  Totally inadequate as usual.  Most of the 'budget' came from Suarez sale.  By the way they put the committee in place.  Ultimately they're the owners.  Buck stops with them.  They're useless.

Meant upgrade, sorry.

They put in 30 million, they didn't pocket any of the Suarez money did they?

Definitely Henry and Werner's fault that the gaffer thought Lovren was his big money defensive signing. Definitely. Lallana was the best 25 million attacking midfielder we could have gotten. Rodgers man, definitely Henry's fault too. The committee in place is a problem, don't get me wrong, its a massive issue, but on the whole, we have a solid set of owners. The best bet for the club to be successful in the long term is the Arsenal model, and its what we are on our way to.

They're not useless, Rodgers is dire in the market, the committee is dire in the market. That's the problem. For some reason you have a random agenda against them. Your posts scream of 'I don't want a sugar daddy owner' but really, its all I actually want.  :butt

The part in bold is just hilarious. Firstly, it was 30 million plus sales, like its been every year pretty much, infact it was close to 40 one year. Secondly, with the Suarez sale, we have 100 million plus. Totally inadequate  :butt :butt
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 02:48:56 am by torbenpiechnik19 »
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Offline Redman0151

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They could have pocketed the Suarez money but they didn't.

Got any suggestions on who would be better owners? And what they could have done differently?

Is not pocketing the Suarez money something that should be celebrated now?

Personally, I don't see the commitment and desire from FSG for them to take us to the top and i'm not alone in that, but any questions raised are shot down with "well it could be worse".


I see local kids having no club to go and support every week, I see my bank account getting charged £56 for a match against the likes of Leicester and I see the club stagnating happy to be the "feeder club for the stars", content to sit in that niche where we develop players and sell them on for a profit with the occasional good run in a competition.

We had the chance to push on last year, we had CL money, the most TV money in world football and £75m from Suarez. The club was content again to shop off the 2nd shelf, and buy "undervalued" players and kids. This year was the chance to really establish ourselves, the CL money is doubling and by finishing above Arsenal/United for 2 years running we could have cemented our position, but as usual it felt like LFC was scared to take that risk and make that leap, we were more worried about balancing books and not taking any real risks

Discussions need to be had about what the long term goal at LFC is, but anytime it's brought up it feels like people are shot down as Xenophobic or wanting an oil shiekh in
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 02:58:58 am by Crosby Wych »
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Offline trimore

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Is not pocketing the Suarez money something that should be celebrated now?


Yes and if you think any of our previous owners even in any of our glory days did any better, from what I understand, you are mistaken.

I could be wrong but that's how it's always been, we won in spite of our owners not because of them.
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Offline Redman0151

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Yes and if you think any of our previous owners even in any of our glory days did any better, from what I understand, you are mistaken.

I could be wrong but that's how it's always been, we won in spite of our owners not because of them.

Rubbish, past crimes should not be used to justify a current regime. "It could be worse" it bollocks reasoning
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

Offline skipper757

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Is not pocketing the Suarez money something that should be celebrated now?

Personally, I don't see the commitment and desire from FSG for them to take us to the top and i'm not alone in that, but any questions raised are shot down with "well it could be worse"

I have some doubts about FSG too but calling them "useless," "inadequate," and such isn't very constructive.

TSC's a good poster and I don't want to single him out but there's no need to quote Purslow to slate the owners. This is the man who called himself the "Fernando Torres of Finance" and called bringing Hodgson to the club to replace Rafa as the "deal of his life."  No point in citing him saying the owners aren't good enough.
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Offline Redman0151

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I have some doubts about FSG too but calling them "useless," "inadequate," and such isn't very constructive.

TSC's a good poster and I don't want to single him out but there's no need to quote Purslow to slate the owners. This is the man who called himself the "Fernando Torres of Finance" and called bringing Hodgson to the club to replace Rafa as the "deal of his life."  No point in citing him saying the owners aren't good enough.

I see locals being priced out of the game with the club not even willing to meet with fan groups until boycotts were threatened, and the trophies and success not being there at the other end to even attempt to justify it.

It feels like Liverpool FC is losing it's heart and right now it feels like "for what?", next season there's going to be less flags on the kop, an even worse atmosphere and likely even higher ticket prices. More and more people are falling out of love with the game and the club, and it's easy to see why.

Very, very soon Anfield is going to be exactly the same as Stamford Bridge, the Emirates etc and it feels like too many in our fanbase are ready to let the club slip away from us and we will become another faceless club with no identity
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

Offline trimore

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Rubbish, past crimes should not be used to justify a current regime. "It could be worse" it bollocks reasoning

Maybe, I just personally as a fan don't want to put myself through the anguish of finding some purely hypothetical owner who is willing to spend his money plus his time to find ways around FFP.

I think it's better to think about how we can spend our money more wisely. Turning another striker into Suarez with a decent squad around him is much better bet than finding that specific owner. 
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Offline Loo Pan

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 Turning another striker into Suarez with a decent squad around him is much better bet than finding that specific owner. 

It will probably be easier to find the owner.

Offline trimore

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It will probably be easier to find the owner.

How many people said that after Torres left? After Owen? After Fowler? players become good, for our team, it actually happens every once in a while. We just have to capitalize on it and win something when it occurs again.
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Offline BarryCrocker

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It feels like Liverpool FC is losing it's heart and right now it feels like "for what?", next season there's going to be less flags on the kop, an even worse atmosphere and likely even higher ticket prices. More and more people are falling out of love with the game and the club, and it's easy to see why.


Not if your a ST holder.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=13774379;topic=319143.2320
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Offline ShayGuevara

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Rubbish, past crimes should not be used to justify a current regime. "It could be worse" it bollocks reasoning

Out of interest.. Who would you consider to be better owners in the League?
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Offline killer-heels

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Didnt we spend almost 50m net last summer?

Offline Dave D

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It depends on what the definition of a good owner is.

Financial stability, someone who steadies the ship, increases profitability, has the club living within it's means (FFP bogeyman), financial stability, increases commercial revenue, doesn't take any money out of the club, financial stability...

Hello Mike Ashley.

Offline Draex

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It's funny Rodgers gets a free pass om perma-injured Lallana and headless chicken Lovren.. Yet the TC get's lambasted for any signing it makes.

It's a collective fuckup, a steep learning curve was needed - I hope this summer we get the right players as we aren't that far away.

Offline BarryCrocker

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It depends on what the definition of a good owner is.

Financial stability, someone who steadies the ship, increases profitability, has the club living within it's means (FFP bogeyman), financial stability, increases commercial revenue, doesn't take any money out of the club, financial stability...

Hello Mike Ashley.


Newcastle United boycott

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastle-united-boycott-big-questions-9068269
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Offline kcbworth

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It depends on what the definition of a good owner is.

Financial stability, someone who steadies the ship, increases profitability, has the club living within it's means (FFP bogeyman), financial stability, increases commercial revenue, doesn't take any money out of the club, financial stability...

Hello Mike Ashley.

Which of those aspects do you take offence to and would you do differently, and how?

  • Financial stability
  • someone who steadies the ship
  • increases profitability
  • has the club living within it's means (FFP bogeyman)
  • increases commercial revenue
  • doesn't take any money out of the club

Offline L666KOP

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Why are we bringing the ticketing issue into this thread ?

If we're looking for scapegoats then the buck as always stops with FSG. However, who exactly mis-spent a huge portion of the 130? million we went shopping with last summer ? It wasn't Henry, or Werner was it ? It was the people they put in charge, Brendan, and this TC we have. And to be fair the players that the TC targeted have done on the whole better than those our manager picked. Surely he must be at the top of FSG's 'hit list, no ? Or do we find comfort in having a 'set up' to blame when things go wrong, yet regale all and sundry with stories of the best young manager when things go right ?

As a fan base it seems we want to be able to apportion blame following disappointment, and it's clear we've regressed since last May, and quite alarmingly. We can point our finger at the wage structure that FSG have put in place, and fair do's, it's not conducive to signing players from the upper echelons of world football, but surely we could have spent the capital more wisely, in fact had the owners siphoned half the Suarez money off to repay the initial loan they provided the club with we'd have been arguably better off as a club.

I think the owners have a huge summer ahead of them if I'm honest, we have a player recruitment system that is clearly flawed, and a manager that is resisting the model our owners prefer. On the evidence we have available to us, and a fair bit of reading between the lines it would seem our manager is better at coaching players than he is at spotting them. This is a manager that is 12 months into a hefty contract also don't forget. Do the owners remove all recruitment responsibilities from our manager and risk him leaving ? Or do we just maintain our current rudderless course in the transfer market hoping more than anything that he gets it right, whilst waiting with bated breath as to what next season brings ?

One thing is for sure, if we are to compete with those above us, the financial powerhouses, we need to be a hell of a lot cuter than we have been for the last couple of decades. It's all well and good chucking handfuls of shit at the wall hoping most of it sticks, we need to find a way to swing the odds, because it's as clear as day that we desperately need help going forward.

This thread contains 'arguments' supporting every angle imaginable, and everyone is at odds and firing from their own personal standpoint, we know what our owners want, we know what they make available to those in charge of the sporting side, and we know what we end up with. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, we need to find the weakest link, and remove it. Of course everyone will have an idea as to where it lies. But to wildly 'blame' anyone is just turning the thread into a cess pit.

As a club are we just the victims of being mismanaged for the last 20 years ? We fell behind badly when football was invented in '92 and have not until recently recovered, we fell behind in terms of our stadium, we're just coming back on track. Are we just being unrealistic in what we expect ? We can't possibly compete financially, are we therefore saying that we are placing demands upon the club that they have no chance of success ? Do we want to be a club that operates in the shady world of back door sponsorship deals, always with an eye over the shoulder watching for FFP restrictions ? Do we expect a manager that can sprinkle fairy dust over every player he coaches and turn them into a 'Suarez' ? Do we expect a TC to be able to pick a 'good 'un' at every turn ? Do we expect players to drop everything and join us because we're Liverpool ?

Be really honest with yourselves, really, really honest.
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Offline elpistolero7

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It's funny Rodgers gets a free pass om perma-injured Lallana and headless chicken Lovren.. Yet the TC get's lambasted for any signing it makes.

It's a collective fuckup, a steep learning curve was needed - I hope this summer we get the right players as we aren't that far away.

I think we need an overhaul of our transfers department. Get in that fella from Sevilla or nab part of the Dortmund or Atletico scouting/signing staff.

Rodgers has had 4 players he's got who he's badly wanted. Allen, Borini, Lovren, Lallana. That's so poor considering the money dished out. His transfers are clearly hampering him, cause barring them, he's fantastic I think. One more summer of fuck ups and I don't think his other abilities end up outweighing his naivety in the transfer market anymore.
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As a club are we just the victims of being mismanaged for the last 20 years ? We fell behind badly when football was invented in '92 and have not until recently recovered, we fell behind in terms of our stadium, we're just coming back on track. Are we just being unrealistic in what we expect ? We can't possibly compete financially, are we therefore saying that we are placing demands upon the club that they have no chance of success ? Do we want to be a club that operates in the shady world of back door sponsorship deals, always with an eye over the shoulder watching for FFP restrictions ? Do we expect a manager that can sprinkle fairy dust over every player he coaches and turn them into a 'Suarez' ? Do we expect a TC to be able to pick a 'good 'un' at every turn ? Do we expect players to drop everything and join us because we're Liverpool ?

Be really honest with yourselves, really, really honest.

To be honest, that's far too many questions for a Sunday morning...
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Offline BarryCrocker

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Are we just being unrealistic in what we expect ? We can't possibly compete financially, are we therefore saying that we are placing demands upon the club that they have no chance of success ? Do we want to be a club that operates in the shady world of back door sponsorship deals, always with an eye over the shoulder watching for FFP restrictions ? Do we expect a manager that can sprinkle fairy dust over every player he coaches and turn them into a 'Suarez' ? Do we expect a TC to be able to pick a 'good 'un' at every turn ? Do we expect players to drop everything and join us because we're Liverpool ?

You know some people just want LFC supporting owners who can spunk up £40m for new players each season, while funding an 75k seater Anfield with no naming rights thats has more cheaper seats for junior locals, no debt, 3 stripes on our sleeves and sponsor with a better looking logo.
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Offline elpistolero7

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You know some people just want LFC supporting owners who can spunk up £40m for new players each season, while funding an 75k seater Anfield with no naming rights thats has more cheaper seats for junior locals, no debt, 3 stripes on our sleeves and sponsor with a better looking logo.

While not wanting sugar daddy owners. Its hilarious.
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Offline Giono

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I think we need an overhaul of our transfers department. Get in that fella from Sevilla or nab part of the Dortmund or Atletico scouting/signing staff.

Rodgers has had 4 players he's got who he's badly wanted. Allen, Borini, Lovren, Lallana. That's so poor considering the money dished out. His transfers are clearly hampering him, cause barring them, he's fantastic I think. One more summer of fuck ups and I don't think his other abilities end up outweighing his naivety in the transfer market anymore.

One other part of the transfer business we seem to struggle with are outgoings. This summer we will potentially have a lot of players to sell that Rodgers doesn't want. A director of football with some contacts would possibly be able to help us move players on without taking such a hard financial hit.

And we are letting contracts run down and contract stuff is making it to the oress. Perhaps a DofF could be working on these issues in the background before they come to a head.
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Offline L666KOP

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You know some people just want LFC supporting owners who can spunk up £40m for new players each season, while funding an 75k seater Anfield with no naming rights thats has more cheaper seats for junior locals, no debt, 3 stripes on our sleeves and sponsor with a better looking logo.

That's just it though isn't it ?

We can't be the club that everyone wants us to be. Yet the majority of our complaints seem to be levelled at our owners.
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Offline GregCharrua

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I see locals being priced out of the game with the club not even willing to meet with fan groups until boycotts were threatened, and the trophies and success not being there at the other end to even attempt to justify it.

It feels like Liverpool FC is losing it's heart and right now it feels like "for what?", next season there's going to be less flags on the kop, an even worse atmosphere and likely even higher ticket prices. More and more people are falling out of love with the game and the club, and it's easy to see why.

Very, very soon Anfield is going to be exactly the same as Stamford Bridge, the Emirates etc and it feels like too many in our fanbase are ready to let the club slip away from us and we will become another faceless club with no identity

There's already a thread for this discussion ongoing, isn't there?

Offline GregCharrua

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One other part of the transfer business we seem to struggle with are outgoings. This summer we will potentially have a lot of players to sell that Rodgers doesn't want. A director of football with some contacts would possibly be able to help us move players on without taking such a hard financial hit.

And we are letting contracts run down and contract stuff is making it to the oress. Perhaps a DofF could be working on these issues in the background before they come to a head.

We struggle with everything having to do with transfers. We're in a strange limbo - cash flush (TV Money, revenue, worldwide support), big club, but not a CL regular and not near regularly challenging for our league. So the European sides (and other English teams, actually, too) treat us like they treat the City, Utd, Chelsea, etc when we go to negotiate because they know we aren't a poor club and they push hard for top dollar. Likewise in wages. Until we take the next step the size of the club is almost a handicap of sorts, it feels at times.

But yes, getting players out the door is tough but we did all right to get them all out on loan at least. I think we'll be able to sell aspas, luis alberto, ilori without too much fuss, if that's our intention.

Offline abhred

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There's absolutely no excuse not to get a 20 goal striker in the summer. Higuain, Lacezette, Jovetic, Dybala, Vietto. There are players available out there, and not many of the top 20 european clubs are looking for strikers. No excuses.
It wouldn't be Liverpool if we didn't do it the hard way... ask Gareth Southgate.

Offline Giono

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We struggle with everything having to do with transfers. We're in a strange limbo - cash flush (TV Money, revenue, worldwide support), big club, but not a CL regular and not near regularly challenging for our league. So the European sides (and other English teams, actually, too) treat us like they treat the City, Utd, Chelsea, etc when we go to negotiate because they know we aren't a poor club and they push hard for top dollar. Likewise in wages. Until we take the next step the size of the club is almost a handicap of sorts, it feels at times.

But yes, getting players out the door is tough but we did all right to get them all out on loan at least. I think we'll be able to sell aspas, luis alberto, ilori without too much fuss, if that's our intention.

We are seen as desperate. We're always on the brink lately and others know it...players and selling clubs.
I'm not sure if loans can be seen as a success in transfer terms. We should move them on if Brendan isn't going to use them.
"I am a great believer in luck and the harder I work the more of it I have." Stephen Leacock

Offline Cattive Maniere

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so another summer of rebuilding and transition is ahead of us ?

Offline Adeemo

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Where the fuck do we go now? Is Rodgers a winner, there's a whole heap of evidence suggesting otherwise.
"I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side"

Offline TheShanklyGates

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Where the fuck do we go now? Is Rodgers a winner, there's a whole heap of evidence suggesting otherwise.

We've bottled nearly every big game in the last 3 seasons. Just not good enough.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline elpistolero7

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Bottled it.

Surprise surprise. Just like we do every fucking time. Barring a sublime Suarez, Sturridge and Gerrard inspired 4 months, Rodgers has been shown up in too many important games.

We get fucked in Europe repeatedly, and embarrassed in the cups regularly.
What belongs to you, but is used by others?

Offline Gnurglan

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Nothing has changed for me after the Villa game. We need a couple of real leaders. One striker, one midfielder.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Adeemo

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Are we allowed to mention Klopp? There's a decision to be made there, it's not very often that a manager of his standing is available and after the season Rodgers has given us, it's only right that we should've put feelers out regarding Klopp's preferences.
"I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side"