Author Topic: FA wants to test video referees in third round of next season's FA Cup  (Read 1838 times)

Offline jillc

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To expand on the 2 calls per manager theme, the really blatant game changing decisions aren't all that common, it's not like we're getting offside goals scored against every game or players sent off unfairly every time.

To ensure that managers use it rightly, instead of as a tool for time wasting late in the game, you could make it such that gratuitous use, for example 3 straight calls from a manager that results in nothing incurring a penalty: the manager loses the video call privileges for the next 10 games. Make it very strict, so that the manager only uses it when absolutely necessary.

That should be the extent of video on the game, bar some real time set-up for offside, if it's possible.

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Being at home in the second leg is a clear advantage to the home team.

I sort of agree. But looking back at the Atletico 2nd leg for example. They got their away goal and we equalised. Both in extra time. I don't disagree with away goals over 180 minutes. But I think extra time should be neutral.

Edit - we scored first then they equalised. But the point that remains the same. They still got an extra 30 minutes to score 1 goal.
« Last Edit: March 4, 2017, 01:02:55 AM by celebrating »

Offline Beninger

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Only review that might make sense is if a goal is scored and it may have been offside but wasn't called. It can be done quickly and sorted before any celebration is even over.
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Offline rob1966

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Only review that might make sense is if a goal is scored and it may have been offside but wasn't called. It can be done quickly and sorted before any celebration is even over.

After yesterday, informing the ref of stamps and elbows wouldn't be a bad idea.

Offline shelts

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After yesterday, informing the ref of stamps and elbows wouldn't be a bad idea.
it took ages to restart play after that anyway so in that situation it wouldn't have delayed the game
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Offline Farman

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Not sure if serious...

To be honest Alan I think it's a great shout. The average amount of time a ball is actually in play is somewhere around 60 minutes. Time wasting is a big problem in the game; it sounds like such a radical change but I can see only up sides.
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Offline tonysleft

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To be honest Alan I think it's a great shout. The average amount of time a ball is actually in play is somewhere around 60 minutes. Time wasting is a big problem in the game; it sounds like such a radical change but I can see only up sides.
It's crazy. I'm pretty sure for the only season they have that statistic for, the average was 55 minutes of effective play in a game. Even stopping the watch would be more effective than added time at the end of the game. I wonder, seeing as 55 minutes of effective play is roughly the average, how the players would cope fitness wise with suddenly playing 90 effective minutes and probably being on the pitch for 120 minutes per game?
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Offline Farman

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It's crazy. I'm pretty sure for the only season they have that statistic for, the average was 55 minutes of effective play in a game. Even stopping the watch would be more effective than added time at the end of the game. I wonder, seeing as 55 minutes of effective play is roughly the average, how the players would cope fitness wise with suddenly playing 90 effective minutes and probably being on the pitch for 120 minutes per game?

You'd just make football a 60 minute game. As I said it sounds radical but really it isn't, and makes everything much fairer, as well as improving the overall spectacle.
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Offline gazzam1963

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Nothing wrong with allowing a video ref ...that should be the fouth official . At this moment we just should be looking for mistakes or missed incidents being punished . So for example saturdays game at OT , the ref could have easily been informed by the fourth official that ibrahomavich should be red carded . If the fourth official ain't sure on the other incident then wait till the ref looks at it at half time and let him make the decision then.
If the refs cocked up in the first half then let the mistakes be rectified at half time inc yellow cards . Not perfect world but at least mistakes are rectified ...even the one at the burnley game if the ref sees he made the wrong call then disallow the goal . No one moans anymore about balls crossing the line . It's not perfect but even if 50% of mistakes are rectified it's a start and the game continues to flow

Offline Statto Red

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If anything The FA should have trailed a timekeeper in the stands who controls the match clock alla Rugby, so we know how long is left.

Offline arthur sarnoff

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If anything The FA should have trailed a timekeeper in the stands who controls the match clock alla Rugby, so we know how long is left.

I can't believe that hasn't been brought in yet, it's such a simple change that doesn't effectively change anything about the game. 

Offline Alan_X

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You'd just make football a 60 minute game. As I said it sounds radical but really it isn't, and makes everything much fairer, as well as improving the overall spectacle.

If by improving the spectacle you mean completely fucking up a sport that's been going for over a hundred years as a ninety minute free-flowing game then you could be right.
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Offline 4pool

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Maybe the FA should test existing referee's and linesmen for competency.

As many calls that are wrong. As many offside goals allowed or a good goal not given.

Somewhere there needs to be accountability.

I stand by this comment.. 8)  ;D
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Offline red1977

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The game's played by people and should be officiated by people, mistakes and all. To much technology will take the soul out of the game. let the refs get on with it.

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Offline Farman

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If by improving the spectacle you mean completely fucking up a sport that's been going for over a hundred years as a ninety minute free-flowing game then you could be right.

How would it fuck it up? And how does it stop it being free-flowing? There's a 'timekeeper' that controls the clock; everything else is the same. It improves the flow by stopping time wasting.

There should be no hang-up over the '90 minutes' label; it would still be a game that takes about 45 minutes for each half.
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Offline swoopy

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Depends how they implement it. If games that used to run 3.00 > 4.45pm (ish) end up now running till 5.15pm because the clocks been stopped for 30 minutes you're going to get a lot of pissed off people!

Also in Rugby League they show the decision on a 'big screen' in the ground and flash up a nice big "TRY" for everyone to see... I'd despise if they did that in Football.
The scoreboard in Anfield pisses me off enough seeing "GOAL.... GOAL ... GOAL" flashing up in nice big letters after Arsenal scored their one on Saturday

If however the decision was made almost instantly by a video referee and it was communicated via headset then I don't see how it can be a bad thing

Offline rushyman

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Good

United just won a cup when a game shouldve ended 3-3

Thankfully it was the least important trophy

One day itll happen in a World Cup or CL final
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Offline ryatnalkar

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If used correctly, it can be wonderful. The goal line technology almost every other week shows a call correctly made where it would have been really tough for ref to make that call. Everything depends on the implementation, but I think a one challenge per game situation would work out if he implementation is such that it doesn't slow the game down.

Offline idontknow

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One day itll happen in a World Cup or CL final
1966?
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Offline rushyman

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Offline vicar

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You'd just make football a 60 minute game. As I said it sounds radical but really it isn't, and makes everything much fairer, as well as improving the overall spectacle.

I think a potential impact of this would be stopping the clock whilst incidents are reviewed. Feels like a slippery slope to american style sports.
Do we stop the clock every time the ball goes out? Stops time wasting I guess. But whats next reduce the game time to 60 mins as you say but of real in play action? Then we end up with advert breaks after every 'play'....urgh.

Not against it, but it needs to be carefully implemented to work without ruining the game.

Offline Garrus

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Offline markedasred

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Not sure how difficult it would be, but if someone did the analysis on how we would be placed in the league this season based on wrong reffing decisions corrected, it might sway a few of you a bit more, as we are mainly a clean playing side, and we seem to have a few refs that have ruled against what they saw as 50/50 or somehow debatable situations.

How I would try to maintain the flow of the game would be to allow only one or two calls by each manager for a decision to be verified per game, plus maybe the offsides. Possibly also allow and disallow dodgy goals post game, although I see how the actual score in the game affects players. Thing is though, maybe heads would go down less if the players thought all was not lost because an obvious non goal will not count later on?.
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Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Possibly also allow and disallow dodgy goals post game.

Worst idea in the history of life.

Offline Farman

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I think a potential impact of this would be stopping the clock whilst incidents are reviewed. Feels like a slippery slope to american style sports.
Do we stop the clock every time the ball goes out? Stops time wasting I guess. But whats next reduce the game time to 60 mins as you say but of real in play action? Then we end up with advert breaks after every 'play'....urgh.

Not against it, but it needs to be carefully implemented to work without ruining the game.

No, I'm not talking about stopping play in any way. I know this thread is about the issues mentioned that the FA are looking at, but I am talking only and specifically about having the time controlled by a fourth official, as someone else raised it as something the FA should have looked at as well, which I agree with. It would not impact the game in any way - no advert breaks, no reviews, nothing - and would only serve to prevent most time wasting.  Yes, you stop the play any time the ball is dead, giving you about 60 minutes of actual play, which is roughly what we get at the moment. Every game will have as much actual football played as any other game. No-one has yet suggested how this would be a bad idea.
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Offline markedasred

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Worst idea in the history of life.
I'm guessing Genocide or global warming on that one?
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Offline Miltonred

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There are two types of sports.
The ones that stick to traditional rules and don't flip and flop around based on "popular opinion", and the rest.

I live in Canada, have done for 14 years. They love Ice Hockey here, but for as much as they love it, half the talk is about how some change in the rules or other would "make it a better sport".
The reason for this, is that for many years they have been tinkering around with the rules, so people are  used to the idea that any old tom dick or harry can suggest some rule change.
Personally i think its bullshit.

I don't agree with video technology, I didn't agree with messing with the offside rule (what a mess that is now) and I never agreed with the change in the backpass rule.

Before I get called a luddite, I will point to the unintended consequences of all of these changes.

1- The offside rule. As a defender myself it pisses me off that I am now responsible for figuring out if an attacker is interfering with play or likely to, in order to decide whether to mark him or not.
2- The goalie not being allowed to pick the ball up from a backpass has resulted in a completely different type of play in the modern game. Goalkeepers now need to be ball players, as do defenders. That is why for the most part there are only a handful of good defenders in the modern game.
which leads to
3- Video technology will start off with major decisions being reviewed, then it will be a slippery slope and the next level of decisions will be added, before you know it, throw-ins will require a video review.

Just leave the fcuk alone.

Offline Le Jake

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I'm guessing Genocide or global warming on that one?

Yours is somewhere inbetween genocide and global warming in a list of top three catastrophic things that could happen ;D
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Online Crosby Wych

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Re: FA wants to test video referees in third round of next season's FA Cup
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2017, 02:36:52 PM »
Interesting, Klopp agrees with testing it especially for offsides
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: FA wants to test video referees in third round of next season's FA Cup
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2017, 07:18:22 PM »
Possibly also allow and disallow dodgy goals post game...

What a stupid idea. Why would people bother going to watch a game that's going to be decided by a couple of meffs, sorry refs, reviewing the game after it's all over?

Some of you lot really need to get on with life. Life isn't perfect and you can't go back and relive and review everything just because the technology is available.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: FA wants to test video referees in third round of next season's FA Cup
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2017, 07:37:46 PM »
No, I'm not talking about stopping play in any way. I know this thread is about the issues mentioned that the FA are looking at, but I am talking only and specifically about having the time controlled by a fourth official, as someone else raised it as something the FA should have looked at as well, which I agree with. It would not impact the game in any way - no advert breaks, no reviews, nothing - and would only serve to prevent most time wasting.  Yes, you stop the play any time the ball is dead, giving you about 60 minutes of actual play, which is roughly what we get at the moment. Every game will have as much actual football played as any other game. No-one has yet suggested how this would be a bad idea.

Football isn't a stop-start game. A few examples:

Foul committed but the ref plays advantage but nothing develops. Clock stops. The advantage play now needs to be cancelled and teh clock re-set to when the foul occurred. Are there two clocks? Not a problem in the real game because it's all within the natural flow.

Ball goes dead for a free kick. The team that won the free kick wants to take a quick one but the clocks stopped. Can they take the kick? Who restarts the clock? Surely all play has to be re-started by the whistle to ensure accurate time-keeping.

Does the whistle restart when the ball starts moving (in active play?) otherwise the team in possession can still waste time by fannying around at the free kick - taking multiple run-ups, starting a run-up and then stopping and moaning that the wall isn;t right.

Corner kicks - when is the ball in play? The ref blows for the corner kick to be retaken but the taker fannies around a bit - stop the clock? If so when? And what happens of the ref's blown to take the kick but there's some argy-bargy in the box and he has to take action? Does the ref re-set the clock back to when the argy-bargy started? But then the ball isn;t in play yet but the ref's blown to start the clock again.

The ball goes out for a throw in. Clock Stops. Does the clock restart when the player takes his run-up or when the ball actually re-crosses the line? If the time restarts when the player has the ball in his hands but hasn't thrown it then that's not counted as the ball being in play. So to waste time under your rules, the player does what they do now, run too far down the touchline so the ref sends them back, the players jockey around and the player drops the ball so another player can take the throw. Has the clock stopped? Do you go back?

Keeper ready to take a goal kick - again, does the ref/timekeeper start the clock when the goalie's foot connects with the ball?...

It changes the nature of football. I want to be at the match for two halves of 45 minutes with maybe 3-4 minutes added on max except in exceptional circumstances. I get to watch about 60 minutes of the ball in play and I couldn't give a flying fuck if it's accurate to the nth degree. I would like to get off and have a pint or two after the game, not have to sit and watch the fucking clock stop and start with no idea how long a half might last, never mind the fact that the TV companies will start adding in commercials at breaks in play.

And if there's a problem with time-wasting the ref just has to do his job using the tools already at his disposal.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: FA wants to test video referees in third round of next season's FA Cup
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2017, 08:31:11 PM »
I don't mind the test as such. A couple of decades ago lots of people were against the idea that the keeper shouldn't be allowed to pick up the ball after a backpass. Quite a few disliked the idea of goal line technology. I also recall that timeouts were tried, at least over here. Some things work, others don't. The timeout was useless and it was binned.

The tries are fine, but it should be difficult to change the game.

Of the ideas, I think rolling substitutions could work. It works in handball. Another thing I'd like to see is two refs on the pitch, rather than the pointless penalty area refs.

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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: FA wants to test video referees in third round of next season's FA Cup
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2017, 08:37:57 PM »
About the match clock, I think it's easy. The clock runs until the ref decides to stop it. In other sports he'd make a timeout sign. If he doesn't make the sign, the clock runs. The real benefit would be that everyone, not just the referee, would know how much is left to play. I would like to see that tried, but not necessarily implemented by default.

The only concern I have with it is that the next step, to stop the clock at every whistle, is so short. And that I believe would kill the whole rythm of the game.

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Online Crosby Wych

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Just been used in the France/Spain game to correctly disallow a goal that was offside
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Online Gerry Attrick

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Didn't take too long for the decision to be made either. Worked really well there.

Offline Die Nullfünfer

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it could hardly have worked out better this France - Spain game as an auditiom for video refs.

One goal not given, after it was given on the pitch, and one goal given, after being ruled out on the pitch.

Both decisions made pretty quickly too by the video ref. All in all, far more smooth and straight forward than I expected.
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