Topic: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)

[Greyfox]

Don't be having a go at Tesco Allerton (Eyes brimming up)

Allerton is scouse....Tesco ....ok it's the bitters shop but I'm prepared to let it slide this time ...:-)

[Dr Manhattan]

Not everyone who suddenly posts something like this will be a Man Utd fan in disguise.

Unfortunately some people are just fucking thick.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Not everyone who suddenly posts something like this will be a Man Utd fan in disguise.

Unfortunately some people are just fucking thick.

in fairness the mods really should halt registrations for a while

[Beav]

Ah. Another Manchester United fan crashes out from the woodwork like a bemused koala that has taken three hits of crystal meth.

The image that paints is fucking brilliant.

[TepidT2O]

assuming evra did say sudaca (yes, big assumption, i know) this is intriguing, and is possibly where the speculation gets really interesting (well, if you're a linguist like me...)  if the above is a fair representation of the relative weight of the two words evra finds himself in a dilemma. 

as a european (well, an african, but one who moved to europe at a very young age) and an accomplished polyglot, the understanding of sudaca evra has would likely be from the 'standard' (i.e. from spain) european version of the language.  by all accounts the word sudaca in that context is utterly reprehensible and viciously racist and he should be charged and banned immediately.

now the alternative view evra could realistically take is that he was using it in its south american context (knowing that suarez is from uruguay), which based on the above account is less of a racial slur, and he is less blameworthy.  but it is inconceivable (to me at least) that he can claim this sort of cultural appreciation of the nuances of south american spanish, and yet still be unaware of the cultural significance of the words suarez is alleged to have used.  similarly, if the FA believe evra's culturally specific reading of sudaca, then why can they not do the same for suarez?

Evra finds himself in no dilemma.... He has been charged with nothing...


If he did say it I'm sure he will still be charged with nothing

[TepidT2O]

in fairness the mods really should halt registrations for a while

They've been closed for a couple of months I think.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

They've been closed for a couple of months I think.

have they? know the site went about a year without accepting registrations, didnt know they'd stopped them again

[AllyouneedisRush]

Can someone explain why the report will not be released until after christmas?..,,

This whole thing stinks... the FA taking a holier than thou attitude with Fifa, and using our player as its sacrificial lamb...

[Lenin.]

in fairness the mods really should halt registrations for a while

Most of them have been registered for ages.

[Dr Stop]

Can someone explain why the report will not be released until after christmas?

Simply, it takes time to write a detailed quasi-legal report, and then have it agreed as accurate by the three independent members. They often come out weeks or months after the judgement is made.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Evra finds himself in no dilemma.... He has been charged with nothing...


If he did say it I'm sure he will still be charged with nothing

if that is in the transcripts released would it be possible for members of the public to make a complaint to the police?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Simply, it takes time to write a detailed quasi-legal report, and then have it agreed as accurate by the three independent members. They often come out weeks or months after the judgement is made.

doesnt mean that they cant give some kind of explanation, after all they took an extra 3 days to make the decision yet they cant give any kind of explanation

[TepidT2O]

if that is in the transcripts released would it be possible for members of the public to make a complaint to the police?

I don't know.....

If we could, would it be the right thing to do?

Wouldn't help the Suarez situation and would be just as petty..

[Dr Stop]

doesnt mean that they cant give some kind of explanation, after all they took an extra 3 days to make the decision yet they cant give any kind of explanation

If it is a detailed and thorough decision then it needs a detailed and thorough explanation... not a 'he said this' lets throw him to the wolves summary. A little patience wouldn't go amiss.

[thejbs]

he said it....."you South American you..." in Spanish = "Sudaca"

So there's no other way of saying 'South American' in Spanish?

Anyway, you're missing my point.  We don't know what either party said so it would be prudent to steer clear of conjecture.  People are getting wound up into a frenzy based on things that may or may not have been said.

He may have said Sudaca, he may not have.  Suarez may have said negrito or worse... people on this thread are talking in absolutes which serve their side of the argument without concrete fact.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

If it is a detailed and thorough decision then it needs a detailed and thorough explanation... not a 'he said this' lets throw him to the wolves summary.

but surely they must realise that its not a good idea to make a damning verdict and not explain it?

and this was meant to be released on friday yet has been delayed by a month, what exactly has led to such a large delay, even taking into account the christmas holidays?

[DJBrenton]

I'm worried now that if I call someone a 'red' they'll have a Navajo grandfather and so I'll be a racist.

[redrockydennis]

I'm worried now that if I call someone a 'red' they'll have a Navajo grandfather and so I'll be a racist.

I have a Cherokee great grandfather you imperialist bastard

[Dr Stop]

but surely they must realise that its not a good idea to make a damning verdict and not explain it?

and this was meant to be released on friday yet has been delayed by a month, what exactly has led to such a large delay, even taking into account the christmas holidays?

Of course the sooner the report is ready the better...

Why the delay? They'll be wanting to take their time to lay out their reasoning for the judgement in as much depth as possible so as to limit any grounds for appeal or querying of the decision. Pretty standard.

[horne]

just looking at the fixtures, is it possible they are withholding the details untill after the sixth of jan the fa cup oldham game?...then the eight games would take it past the man u game because lets face it...there is going to be some anger about if he plays in that one?
edit 3ed of jan city game...then the eighth game missed would be utd

[sideshowme]

Evra finds himself in no dilemma.... He has been charged with nothing...


If he did say it I'm sure he will still be charged with nothing

you're quite right, what i meant to say is the FA find themselves in a dilemma over evra's evidence.  given his alleged confession they have no choice but to charge him, unless they have taken into account the alleged cultural differences of the word he is alleged to have used... in which case their whole argument over suarez's alleged words falls apart.

or they are just lazy and assume hate speech is only something that can happen to black people.

allegedly.

[MikaelLFC]

just looking at the fixtures, is it possible they are withholding the details untill after the sixth of jan the fa cup oldham game?...then the eight games would take it past the man u game because lets face it...there is going to be some anger about if he plays in that one?
edit 3ed of jan city game...then the eighth game missed would be utd

Ha, surely they can't go that low, can they?

[Stussy]

So there's no other way of saying 'South American' in Spanish?

Anyway, you're missing my point.  We don't know what either party said so it would be prudent to steer clear of conjecture.  People are getting wound up into a frenzy based on things that may or may not have been said.

That's why I always said 'if' he said that word and emphasised it is still speculation.

I understand your point - and agree we should always make it contingent if we mention the possibility. I don't think speculating about this is wrong per se because that is part of the narrative as its being talked about out there. For example to ignore the possibility that the word negrito is part of this whole affair is to ignore what seems to be at the heart of every piece of discussion on every platform and media on this issue.

Your reminder of caution is a good one though.

[horne]

second thoughts,there would be an appeal and the ban could be reduced but untill then he could still play...so begs the question,roughly how long do appeals take with a decision?
fa will be shitting it over that man u game

[Alan_X]

I wouldn't know because I haven't read every page of the thread but if it is a repeat of a lot of posts then feel free to delete it. After all that is why your are a mod no?

The thread is 182 pages and you think you're the first to post it? And no - I'm not a mod so I can pick through every page of this thread. We hope people will use common sense.

[redrockydennis]

Just asked a mate of mine who is a barcelona fan, and from them there parts, about sudaca, And his response was:

Yeah Sudaca it's a bad word for Southamerican. It's offensive.

So if it was said, the alleged response makes sense from Suarez, altho not offensive on his part.

Just thought I'd check with a native Spanish speaker, as presumably evra would know European Spanish over south American variations.

Just asked him aboutthe use of negro or negrito, apparently "negrata" is the equivalent of the N word.

[TepidT2O]

I do think we need to remember that there seems to be no agreement on what Suarez said.....

The clubs statement did state that there were no other witnesses and only Evra's word for it....


Seems that we may have forgotten that

[Redshadow]

FA and a lot of journalists in UK are very rich, aren't they? They surely look forward to donate a lot of money to any charity causes that Luis and LFC choose.

[Met]

Ha, surely they can't go that low, can they?

Pretty sure they can

[Beninger]

Haha. If Evra called Luis a Sudaca and they're not pulling him up on anything...well, we already know how corrupt it all is. 

[Big Red Richie]

I think it's only a coincidence, but just to play devils advocate for a second, does anyone think they'll release the details, say, in the last few days of January, just before Terry goes into court on 1st Feb, so Luis gets another shitstorm, whilst Terry slips under the radar.


I know it's coming in Jan, but have they given any inclination of when in January?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The thread is 182 pages and you think you're the first to post it? And no - I'm not a mod so I can pick through every page of this thread. We hope people will use common sense.

HA! Good luck with that mate - Merry Christmas

[MikaelLFC]

I do think we need to remember that there seems to be no agreement on what Suarez said.....

The clubs statement did state that there were no other witnesses and only Evra's word for it....


Seems that we may have forgotten that

You've got a point. Thing is that media have blown this into some kind of huge circus of condemnation (that's why I try not to watch the sports section in the newspapers these days) - they have crucified him already and it's hard to change the public view (i.e. everybody that's not a Liverpool fan), it's as if FA can't but crucify him as well, if they don't, they will get crucified (although, as a foreigner I might not be enlightened of everything that happens in the UK, but it's something that I sort of see that is in play as well).

Pretty sure they can

Can, of course they can. But wouldn't it be too obvious? Well, that or something in relation with the Terry story...

[cashmere pringle]

So what happened to the documents being released today ?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Can, of course they can. But wouldn't it be too obvious?

You have got to be joking. They've been fucking us around for years.

[Stevie93]

Just asked a mate of mine who is a barcelona fan, and from them there parts, about sudaca, And his response was:

Yeah Sudaca it's a bad word for Southamerican. It's offensive.

So if it was said, the alleged response makes sense from Suarez, altho not offensive on his part.

Just thought I'd check with a native Spanish speaker, as presumably evra would know European Spanish over south American variations.

Sudaca is an offensive term used against South Americans. I guess an English equivalent would be using 'paki' to refer to people of Pakistani or middle eastern decent. And yes, it's just as racist and insulting.

[MikaelLFC]

So what happened to the documents being released today ?

Well, as it seems they will be released after Christmas. I suppose they have more important things to do?

[sidneyroughdiamond]

So what happened to the documents being released today ?

FA's QC has gone on holiday with their approval apparently. Couldn't make it up if you tried.

[redtel]

It will be interesting to see if the FA report describes exactly what Evra said to Suarez as well as the word used by Suarez that caused offence.

Suarez said he didn't hear Evra use an offensive word against him.

This is the clever bit (by Evra's legal team).  If Evra said he used an offensive word against Suarez it means that any words used in reply could not have been used in a friendly way as Suarez claims. Therefore his defence falls apart if they were trading insults. Suarez was then found guilty of the charge.

However, the fact that Suarez didn't hear the word shouldn't stop the FA from charging Evra as he was using a word to insult someone's nationality which is the same as a race insult. It's a complicated case and the FA should have issued their report at the same time as the sentence, but when did the FA ever do the right thing. They could have withheld their decision until the facts could be released.

[MikaelLFC]

You have got to be joking. They've been fucking us around for years.

Haha, thing is I haven't really given that much a crap about them before. I've tried not to at least (living abroad makes it easier I have to say). I suppose I've tried to see things so far in kind of a utopia where things are done fair and square - time to wake up eh. It just seemed so bizarre to me, sort of unreal.