Topic: Luis Suarez - FA guilty charge and LFC Statement (*)

[kennedy81]

I have always said that there isn't neccessarily racial intent in "negrito", but it depends on the context it is used. In Uruguay it is understood that negrito can refer to the colour of one's skin. It then depends on the context it's used it in. Chicharito talking to a friend is likely to be using it affectionately, thus not being racial abuse. Suarez arguing with Evra is likely to use it to annoy and hence it would be racial abuse.

whoaa, that's a big assumption there mate.
he could have been being abusive, while at the same time, using what he felt was an innocent word, not intending that particular word itself to be abusive.

the crux of the matter is this....

did Suarez realize that his use of the word negrito was winding Evra up because Evra saw it as a racial slur?
or was he just trying to wind him up, as players do, while innocently using a word which he felt had no derogatory racial connotations.

[Mutton Geoff]

Oh my word, you genuinely still don't get it do you? I think we'll leave it there then eh?

You operating in a 'multicultural environment' interests me though. As opposed to those  'hermetically sealed white only environments' that a lot of people operate out of. Please tell me more of this magical place.

I think the words I am looking for is you are an argumentative fellow for the sake of it.

  Are you a hack?

If you dont understand that we all live in a multicultural society, but some deal with the problems this can create on a daily basis then you really are being deliberately obtuse in your futile mission to talk down to everyone and try to score points!

This is sidetracking the point of this thread so maybe we should take it into the flagpole area, where we could maybe discuss the connection between Racism and Prejudice!

[Dr Manhattan]

I was pulling an Evra mate, hence the 10 times thing. Should've made it clearer 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

After we get the documents relating why Luis has been banned for 8 games etc I hope we don't even bother appealing to the fa but instead take our fight directly to the high court or sports arbitration. If I've read correctly we can't appeal the verdict only the sentence. If we only appeal to the fa I can only see one outcome and that is that they will increase the ban. It's pretty obvious we're not going to get a fair hearing so I hope we fight them all the way in court and get the ban lifted and a very publi apology to us and Luis for trying to ruin his reputation and career not only with their ridiculous verdict but also the 3momths they've taken to reach it in which time Luis has suffered dogs abuse and been given no protection whatsoever by the pfa or match officials.

Then I'd like us to sue the fuck out of every publication and individual that has not bothered to question on what evidence Luis has been found guilty but instead simply applauded the fa for 'taking a stand'.

It's almost like this is nothing to do with Luis but instead the fa's way to have another o at Sepp Blatter over his recent comments. A way to show him and the world that the fa won't tolerate racism despite Blatters ideas. I also have the feeling that JT will walk away with nothing more than a fine and a slap on the wrist. All this charging him and him going to court is their way of covering their arses to show everyone that ven though he is English they're treating him the same as they would anyone else who stood accused of what he is accused of. They'll the. Conclude that there was insufficient evidence to find him guilty yet they're happy to pass verdict on Luis based on Evra's say so. The whole thing is a complete sham and I hope we absolutely rip them to bits and expose them for who they really are!

From what I've read Liverpool can't appeal against the ruling - just the sentence. But after they have gone through the process of appeal they can start a separate motion to the courts. Given their strongly worded statement this is what I would expect them to do. But I'm no legal eagle.

[mercurial]

I have always said that there isn't neccessarily racial intent in "negrito", but it depends on the context it is used. In Uruguay it is understood that negrito can refer to the colour of one's skin. It then depends on the context it's used it in. Chicharito talking to a friend is likely to be using it affectionately, thus not being racial abuse. Suarez arguing with Evra is likely to use it to annoy and hence it would be racial abuse.

If Evra said "sudaca" that would be racial abuse. But there is no mention of Evra _racially_ insulting Suarez in the LFC statement and also surely more would have been made of this by Suarez and LFC a lot earlier if it was the case.

So finally, you have gone and said you understand what the word means -- its a racial abuse. What is your native language? You are making a lot of assumptions in that statement. Negrito CAN be used to denote skin colour, was it used to denote skin colour in this case? Who will decide on that? Your presumption that a football match means it was racial. What basis that the word can be used like that and not as a normal label in spanish conversation like "what the fuck, mate?" You are showing up to be having exactly the trait which people so dislike.

You have gone and made assumption about how the word is used in Uruguay. Have you even visited that country far less been born and grown up there? You then go on and say how people use the term based on you understanding of spanish. How chicarito uses it and Suarez uses it is just not fucking understood by you unless you are native spanish speaker. Yet you have read into their statement, you have deciphered the meaning and you have passed a judgement based on your understanding. Let me see what this reminds me of ... the colonial mindset? Maybe read up Satre's -Colonialism and Neocolonialism. The first few pages should start to make you see things differently I hope.

[Hymer Red]

I was pulling an Evra mate, hence the 10 times thing. Should've made it clearer 

Caught me with that one as well  was thinking if he pms me Ill chin him!

[Andy @ Allerton!]

i remember thinking before the match how bizarre Mr Alex Ferguson was for saying, things have got out of hand between the fans and that we should all get on blah blah....i put it down to him wanting to take a little bit of the sting  out of the crowd to aid their plight in getting some sought of result out of the match which historically, it had been mentioned that they didnt really do too well in.
i also thought about the last time out where nani broke down and cried on the pitch and i was feeling that really ,they just werent looking forward to this one.
even rooney made some comment beforehand about how they dont get anything at our patch and was pretty much expecting not much out of the game
i felt that for the first time in a while, we were well placed to give them a mauling and not just take away the 3 points, but win by a good few to the point of humiliating them.
the talk was all about how weak they were in comparison to previous united sides particularly in the midfield.
rooney and his ol man were under the microscope too
then this happens.
was there some pre planned idea in retaliation for previous events out of desperation i wonder?
i may be wrong but any other manager would have tried to quell the situation not exagerate it surely?...i mean we are talking about something explosive , particularly after he made a big thing about the munich chants and the hillsborough stuff?...bit too bizarre for me!

Ferguson will be loving this. He's near the end and he'll be delighted that the whole country is seemingly against Liverpool to end his bitter reign.

[AirConGipsyRed]

Believe it or not it was intended to provoke thought on the topic not to plant a landmine for me to throw myself onto. It seems I was expecting too much.

The irony is I've actually paraphrased much of the above from a discussion with a head of an ethics committee board who has published numerous articles relating to cultural awareness.  He actually used the analogy of 'would I be more wary of a gypsy knocking on my front door or an 80 year old woman'? Essentially saying how can any of us truly say we are without prejudice of some sort? It's a pity you weren't there, I'm sure you'd have been able to contribute a lot to the discussion.

Pardon me?

I actually find that post really offensive, especially as you were emphasizing prejudice.

I shall report to a moderator.

[LFC when it suits]

Ahh, straight back to the manc forums now then to post something along the lines of the following...

LOLZ!! I just when on that rawk and wound up the scouse! I even had a pic of Evra! Lolzypops!! Be my friend, someone?

etc.

lol, and here it is. The twats name is Eugenius.

"Banned.

Well since our friends at RAWK are reading this thread, I'd like to point out that "the most objectionable of terms" is not implying racist/bigoted/etc. "

[mercurial]

Oh, he has been banned, all the efforts that people spent to educate the child has been wasted as the child was expelled from school. 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yeah Eugenius;

 Today, 18:49      #3026 (permalink)
Eugenius
Reserve Team Player
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Behind You
Posts: 1,290

(From Red Cafe) and the initial post. He was outed instantly by Dr. M. Pity that he couldn't have used some of his time to cut through the bullshit and learn something.




This will either go one of two ways:

1) someone attempts to argue and will fall down on their lack of logic and then I get banned

2) I get banned straight away

edit - Pheeny - please don't post links to there.

[Stussy]

3) He got slapped in the face with things he didn't even know.

[jooneyisdagod]

lol, and here it is. The twats name is Eugenius.

"Banned.

Well since our friends at RAWK are reading this thread, I'd like to point out that "the most objectionable of terms" is not implying racist/bigoted/etc. "

First he knew what Suarez was implying when he allegedly used the term negrito and now he knows what the club statement implied when they said Evra used the most objectionable of terms.  This guy must be a master at knowing what others are implying. 

And since you are reading this you Manc I now think you are a c*nt.  Possessing that amazing ability to know what exactly what the other person is implying I'm sure you've come to the conclusion that I think you are a c*nt and you would be right as well since I do think you are a c*nt. 

[Dr Manhattan]

Eugenius needs to get up earlier in the fucking morning.

[Lenin.]

Rawk thread most popular on Redcafe! 722,231  views IN 6 MONTHS!
 

[snowlion]

Back to the more important issue:

Should we expect the FA documents in a week and a half judging by past FA responses?

[El_Pistolero]

Eugenius is Eudimwit really.

[jooneyisdagod]

I don't know.

What I do know is that he's sent me 10 abusive PM's and rather than report this to a mod I'm just going to stick it out here in the middle of the forum.

[El_Pistolero]

Rawk thread most popular on Redcafe! 722,231  views IN 6 MONTHS!
 

Bless 'em.

[LFC when it suits]

Rawk thread most popular on Redcafe! 722,231  views IN 6 MONTHS!
 

They will forever be in our shadow. Despite their success over the years, Liverpool FC is still the most popular topic on redcafe.

[Hymer Red]

I don't know.

What I do know is that he's sent me 10 abusive PM's and rather than report this to a mod I'm just going to stick it out here in the middle of the forum.

Shouldnt you ring talkshite and the BBC then get your gaffer to hold your hand when he makes you tell the mods?

[sirKennyDaggers]

Rawk thread most popular on Redcafe! 722,231  views IN 6 MONTHS!
 

obsessed with us mate,love it.

[Cre_mCr_cker]

I was tempted to go on there and troll the mancs, couldn't be fucked in the end. During the registration you have to answer a question about them, the question was What colour do the mancs play in? Red you say? That's what I wrote, apparently I was wrong. Is there no end to the idiocy?

[thejbs]

Goes both ways tbf

Playground stuff...

[Stussy]

Fuck them lets keep this on topic.

[redgriffin73]

What Liverpool FC, Dalglish, the individual players, and the fans have done to support Suarez may put us in a negative light by some.  However, it proves to those players who are thinking of a transfer to England that there is only one team where You'll Never Walk Alone.

Good point about how players outside England may view our togetherness. However, what I would love to happen is for an English club other than us to try to buy a foreign player (especially a South American or Spanish one) and for that player to publicly state that they don't wish to move to England because of the lack of multicultural understanding and citing this case and what Suarez has been subjected to.

[qbduncan]

Any ideas when the report will be released??

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Heard Evra will demand that the Argentine NT be thrown out of Fifa because of this

[only6times]

Prince, enjoy the little semi you've given yourself.

[Hymer Red]

Heard Evra will demand that the Argentine NT be thrown out of Fifa because of this

Maxi and Masch obviosly infected with Racism at LFC and passed it on to their International team mates. Our Ingurland players must have infected Terry as well.

[Bouncer]

Also ... How much of a fuckwit is Evra and United going to look when the world realizes what idiots they were to be offended by a word in a foreign language that they didn't  understand and yet had the audacity to pursue this racist claim to the level they have. If somebody called me a wanker in Serbo-Croat I wouldn't have a clue if they had or not - mind you I could accuse the majority of journalists and cundits of being onanists in this country and get the same reaction. Truth will always out its just amazing that no single press outlet has sided with us on this ... breathtaking lack of balance or rigour ... Fucking journos ... a bankrupt profession!

[yes]

No. My point was that in the other thread you made an open random post seemingly pointing at various people. Then you made another one. Then you made the one in here.

If you had correctly reported a racist post to a mod and had it quietly deleted then that was all you needed to do. Why continue with it as your concerns were proven to be upheld by the mods on RAWK?

I'll tell you exactly why and it's a point that a lot of you are proving. This is not about me going round trying to pettily remove people's posts because I don't like that they've just said something nasty about Andy fucking Carroll or some shit like that. This is not something that should be talked about in hushed tones in a quieter part of the forum. Some people were posting fucking ignorant views which frankly indicative of a society which is still badly prejudiced.

So no I won't slope off and discuss it somewhere quietly, the more people that are aware and educated that it's wrong the better. I may well be preaching to a lot of the converted but so be it, if it gets through to even one person who has maybe just decided to have a think about things differently then at least I've had a fucking go eh?

And besides myself and Alan_F had quite a civilised and ultimately agreeable discussion about it before Andy and the rest waded in with base insults which, more fool me, brought me down to their level.

Mods that's it from me in this thread and I apologise for bringing a gaggle of idiots into it but hopefully you won't delete the above as in my opinion it needs to be said.

[simplyred84]

The truth is: if you are a foreigner in this country you are much more likely to be criticized, blamed, and used as a scapegoat. Alongside many posters around here, I first realized this by watching how one Rafa Benitez was being consistently slammed in the media for apparently horrendous things that were simply not true, while domestic managers were consistently given a pass for truly horrendous things they did.

The same is true for Suarez. However you cut it, the fact that he is from Uruguay makes him a perfect whipping boy for the supposed fight against racism. The irony, of course, is that Suarez (in contrast to all the f*cking domestic xenophobes percolating the FA and the media) actually has a genuine justification for what he said because in his culture what he said is simply not racist! That's why he admitted to saying it in the first place!!!!! (as Barnes points out). The hypocrisy is just mind-blowing.

Really good on Dalglish, this club, players, and Johnson and Barnes in particular to tell Suarez YNWA. And to tell the witch hunters to shut the f*ck up and turn the mirror onto themselves!

You make a good point about the media's hunting of Benitez. A foreign manager at a big club has to pander to the media to a certain extent but a British manager will never be scrutinised  in the same way. Steve Kean is having a hard time of it and seems to somehow be escaping criticism for his flaws. A foreign manager may not be afforded the same generosity, even one as gifted as Rafa. These very same journalists are the one proclaiming that racism needs to be stamped out of the game when they clearly have their own 'agenda's' towards foreign coaches in general

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'll tell you exactly why and it's a point that a lot of you are proving. This is not about me going round trying to pettily remove people's posts because I don't like that they've just said something nasty about Andy fucking Carroll or some shit like that. This is not something that should be talked about in hushed tones in a quieter part of the forum. Some people were posting fucking ignorant views which frankly indicative of a society which is still badly prejudiced.

So no I won't slope off and discuss it somewhere quietly, the more people that are aware and educated that it's wrong the better. I may well be preaching to a lot of the converted but so be it, if it gets through to even one person who has maybe just decided to have a think about things differently then at least I've had a fucking go eh?

And besides myself and Alan_F had quite a civilised and ultimately agreeable discussion about it before Andy and the rest waded in with base insults which, more fool me, brought me down to their level.

Mods that's it from me in this thread and I apologise for bringing a gaggle of idiots into it but hopefully you won't delete the above as in my opinion it needs to be said.

So you do it the right way. If you want to pull someone up - you post directly to them. Directly. Not all this snidey cowardly sneaking around.

Either do it by the mods or do it publically if you wish but I wasn't the only one in that thread thinking you were not only having a pop at me but also my upbringing and my parents.

[lionel_messias]

But surely all this speculation could have been avoided if we were given the facts of the case and the reasoning behind that verdict when we received the verdict?

Yes we need to see that, urgently.

[Pistolero]

Mods that's it from me

thank fuck for that

[Walshy nMe®]

BUT BUT BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE NEGRO!!!!!

[Ski]

Any ideas when the report will be released??

Maybe when they've decided what is going to be in it?

[Mutton Geoff]

You make a good point about the media's hunting of Benitez. A foreign manager at a big club has to pander to the media to a certain extent but a British manager will never be scrutinised  in the same way. Steve Kean is having a hard time of it and seems to somehow be escaping criticism for his flaws. A foreign manager may not be afforded the same generosity, even one as gifted as Rafa. These very same journalists are the one proclaiming that racism needs to be stamped out of the game when they clearly have their own 'agenda's' towards foreign coaches in general

However Martinez at Wigan seems to be excluded from the foreign manager strategy!

 Only ever read good stuff about him no matter the result.  Why?

[Dr Manhattan]

Get in! Arguing amongst ourselves now. Brilliant stuff!

Merry Christmas everyone!