Author Topic: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered  (Read 10253 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« on: October 13, 2005, 10:12:55 am »
International football – who needs it? At times, I feel Liverpool do not.

Peter Crouch has joined John Barnes in the list of Liverpool players undeservedly mocked, or worse, while representing England. Meanwhile, Steven Gerrard has returned from the England camp with a calf injury, not long after an England game aggravated a similar problem. Fernando Morientes has not been since since the last set of international matches.

I was totally disgusted, if far from surprised, by the treatment Peter Crouch received playing for his country, both by the ironic cheers whenever he won a header, and from the pressmen who slaughtered him after the Austria match.

But the booing of his introduction last night, against Poland, was the final straw. Then again, what do you expect from a bunch of morons? At least Crouch won't have to play for England again at Old Trafford.

In fairness, some journalists were accurate and fair to Crouch after the Austria match. I read a few reports praising Crouch, saying his performance mirrored those for Liverpool: very good link play (England's best chances came from his quick thinking), clever feet, but not enough threat at goal. 

But those who slated him propagated the hatred. In the two games Crouch has started for his country, England have won both. In the other –– last night –– he came on as a sub at 1-1 and England quickly scored to win the game.

It's not like England have been winning, or even drawing, lots of their other recent games. Liverpool have only lost one match in which he's played. Perhaps too early to be conclusive, it might tell a small story.

Dilemma

All players want to represent their country, and though you may get injured players on their return, if you deny your players the chance to join up you will have problems, and future targets will not join a club that may jeopardise their international ambitions.

All players know that their club form is the first priority, but the World Cup remains the greatest football spectacle on earth. To be there is their ultimate ambition.

But with the money Football Associations around the world are making from the game, you'd think some kind of compensation to the clubs for injuries would be automatic. Liverpool's hopes haven't been helped by the international game, especially with an already overcrowded fixture list and a phenomenal amount of games this season.

But what about the psychological damage? Crouch should have returned from his first two competitive England matches feeling seven feet tall (okay, you know what I mean). Instead he must feel smaller than Shaun Wright-Phillips.

Crouch is fast becoming my cause célčbre. The more I see him play, the more I realise how good he is. Jamie Redknapp's comment about Crouch having Brazilian feet and vision are not an exaggeration. Crouch does not have a good touch for a big man. He has a brilliant touch, full stop.

He will need to start scoring goals to ease the criticism, but talk of a goal drought is a little premature, given the games he's missed this season.

Abuse

The tabloids are there to sell papers and make money; the broadsheets tend to take the approach that their readers might appreciate a little bit of thought.

Two hacks, Paul McCarthy and Brian Woolnough, exhibited a frightening lack of understanding of the game of football when speaking on the Jimmy Hill show on Sky on Sunday. "He can't play" screamed Woolnough. They laughed at Crouch.

Crouch is easy to mock. McCarthy and Woolnough came across like boorish school bullies, mocking the afflicted. (Woolnough, with his super-large head, should not be so quick to laugh at others.) These people may be very fine journalists, but understanding football is something entirely different.

Like a lot of people, I always regarded Crouch as a bit of a joke until I actually started paying attention to him. It occurred to me that I'd never really seen him play, or studied his game. But people who get paid to watch football and comment on it should see enough of players, and understand what they are seeing. You don't have to watch Crouch for long to see his qualities.

Watch Crouch's passing. There was an example for England where he played Michael Owen in with a beautifully weighted through ball. For me, "proper" players can control a ball and weight a pass.

One thing I always look for is a pass made to a running player: as a footballer, you need to calculate the weight of that pass to perfection, into the space ahead of the player, so he neither has to break stride or desperately sprint to get to it.

Crouch has that. It may sound a simple skill, but it's amazing how many players, in advantageous positions, fractionally over-hit or under-hit the ball, and the move loses momentum.

An example of Crouch's subtle skill: late in the game against Austria a difficult looping high ball came towards him.

Instead of trying to head it, he cannily backed into the defender (not unlike Dalglish might have – Kenny's backside was one of his greatest weapons) until the ball came down low enough for him to cushion a perfect pass to Lampard. Lampard took an extra touch, but had he hit it first time he stood a good chance of scoring. Crouch set up Cissé in identical fashion in a CL qualifying game.

Had any of these journalists ever kicked a football in their lives they might recognise what a difficult skill it was. Or the quality of his other contributions.

Football is all about opinions. But that is no excuse to be idiotic. On the BBC we had Graeme Le Saux (who has kicked a ball in his life, as well as punching a teammate), widely touted as an intelligent man despite his awful bumbling co-commentaries, saying Crouch should have been substituted, and not Owen, when England had to play a lone striker after going down to ten men against Austria.

Le Saux said you would want Owen's pace for the long ball over the top, as an escape option. That's his opinion, and he's entitled to it. It has a certain amount of logic, and at least Le Saux has an understanding of the game, even if he struggles to articulate it.

What worries me is that Le Saux said he "could not understand" the decision to stick with Crouch (a player he rates, incidentally). He seemed totally perplexed. If you cannot see the benefit of sticking with Crouch, why are working as an 'expert'?

Whatever your opinion, you should be able to see the value inherent in two alternative approaches, even if you prefer one over the other. Football is rarely black and white. There is often no right or wrong; just decisions which you hope work out better than the alternatives. 

Then we had John Motson, the most confused and befuddled man in football, saying that he never understands Sven Goran Eriksson's substitutions. Well frankly, I can never understand John Motson. (Unlike Martin Tyler, who actually seems to understand the game he's been covering for donkey's years.)

It's not too difficult to understand how Crouch's ability to win headers and hold the ball up would offer a sensible solution for a team lacking numbers, who needed to hold onto their 1-0 advantage. After all, Owen is not noted for playing as a lone striker. He was a disaster in the role for England in Ireland, and that was with a full complement of players against lesser opposition.

I just don't think Crouch needed the nation hearing Le Saux's ill-judged comments.(Le Saux was at it again last night: "You can't allow Rooney to come in your box". Grandmothers everywhere were turning pale at the thought.)

Last night I flicked channels but mostly watched France, to see how Cissé was doing (he looked super-sharp, although he missed a hatful of chances, either from bad luck or bad finishing), and only tuned into England once Crouch was on. I was desperate for him to ram the taunts back down the throats of the idiots in the crowd. Not that they would appreciate anything he did.

Blackburn

Cissé did score for France at the weekend, his 4th for Les Bleus this season, and in Gerrard's absence I'd like to see Crouch and Cissé together in a 4-4-2 formation, with Sissoko alongside Alonso in the midfield. But that's just my preference.

Crouch and Cissé link very well whenever they play together, but I can also see why Rafa has wanted a midfield containing Gerrard, Alonso and either Sissoko or Hamann. 

But as I have just said, there are always plenty of different approaches, and on any given day, in the circumstances that arise, anything can happen. I prefer to try and understand what a manager is doing, rather than saying I definitely know better.

©Paul Tomkins 2005

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« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 11:48:00 am by Rushian »

batesie -56-

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 10:25:59 am »
Agree 100%, never understand why you would ever boo a player playing for your country for example cant fcukin stand the chuckles but when they play for England they are playing for my country, granted I will never go crazy over them like I would Carra but I would NEVER boo or jeer them.

To be honest I didn’t watch the England game last night, I cant stand watching England games under Sven so I went and watched Ardal O’Hanlon live stand up show, but I watched the highlights when I got home and the jeers were just shocking, as you say it all comes from the papers they slate someone unjustly and the sheep follow (mainly because Woolnoughs kin head looks like it needs shearing),

Watch Crouch play for 90mins against Blackburn (if selected) and tell me he is not superb at his link play, control etc. yes he hasn’t scored yet WOW no goals in the first few games of the season oh my god, lets sell him straight away.

I think he will turn the world round to his side bit like Carra did, when Carra started people didn’t like his no nonsense defending they wanted a tart like Rio who gained unfair praise and leeds and Man Utd and the papers were climbing over themselves for him, but in time they realised that Carra is what we all already knew a world class defender, I am not saying Crouch will turn into a Liverpool legend but I know he will get the credit he deserves by the end of the season.

Keep the faith and lets hope the big man can bag a goal at the weekend

Offline The Albert Cock

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 10:26:02 am »
mate, I am very pleased you took the time to get that down in print, I had  right cobon last night with the treatment of Crouch, he may well be one of those players who never gets credit for anything.  Did he not start the move that led to the goal and ran the length of the pitch at the same time?

I suppose people just expect goals from strikers these days, I personaly wont care if he never scored for liverpool as long as we were winning games with his presence being a major factor.

anyway, well in for writing it, cant believe soem of the people who get jobs at experts myself.

Offline SkyBlueRed

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 10:30:10 am »
I personally think the whole argument is pointless, if players didnt want to play for their country and it was some mandatory FIFA/FA ruling then fair enough but you tell a player hes not going to the World Cup because his clubs more important and he will tell you where to go im sure. Look at players like Owen who has changed his club team for the good of his international career and Cisse who is considering doing the same. I would say the World Cup is the most important thing to many players these days, at least the ones playing at a level to have a decent crack of doing well in it.
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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2005, 10:31:09 am »
Great piece that Paul. Agree wholeheartedly on all aspects apart from:

Quote
These people [McCarthy and Woolnough] may be very fine journalists, but understanding football is something entirely different.


Have you joined the NUJ and sworn not publically criticise colleagues writing since you started writing for the official site?  ;)

We both know that Woolnough wouldn't know a cogent, thoughtful and well constructed paragraph if it slapped him round his oversized head.

As for England fans and the media that serves them, vermin. Always have been and unfortunately probably always will be. I thought England trooping off Old Trafford as the crowd sang along to the pleb anthem "Amarillo" said it all really.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 10:37:59 am by Veinticinco De Mayo »
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Offline Captain-Carra

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2005, 10:32:46 am »
Did he not start the move that led to the goal and ran the length of the pitch at the same time?
From what I recall he controlled ther ball in his area and then played a superb ball out to a man in space. No one notices this as he is a tall man. Crowd reaction was shocking but what do you expect from Old Trafford.

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Offline Sabre Wolf

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2005, 10:33:19 am »
I don't bother with Team Ingerlund but am not surprised at the moronic booing of Crouch from the same 'fans' who regularly boo the opposition's national anthem.  The stereotypical England supporter is just one of the reasons why I have no time for the national team (with apologies to the level headed England fans who post on this site).

Woolnough was also spouting his bile on Radio 5 last Friday and I had to switch off, such was his total lack of anything positive to say about Crouch.  His criticism wasn't even constructive, to paraphrase the man who competes with Steve Bruce in the big fat head stakes - "he's not an England class player" "my gran could do a better job" etc.  I don't know if he still writes for the Star (he also used to write for the S*n I think) but perhaps he's trying to appeal to the type of people who read that rag.

Anyway I've dwelt on England for longer than I'd care to and agree that vs Blackburn I think we could see the 4-4-2 formation many people are crying out for.  I certainly think a partnership of Crouch and Cisse will get the best out of both of them and Cisse's pace will give the lumbering Blackburn defence something to think about when they're not trying to kick lumps out of our players.

Crouch has played well this season although people don't seem to appreciate the work rate he puts in and the way he brings other players into the game.  He does need a goal, however, as his confidence could be shot following the unjustified abuse/criticism levelled at him by the crowd and the media.

All in all I'm just pleased that another international week is behind us, despite yet another LFC player picking up an injury, and we can now get back to improving our league form with, hopefully, a good performance and win vs Blackburn.

And I'll be there along with 40,000 other Reds showing Crouch that his game is appreciated by the fans of his club, even though it seems to be ridiculed by fans of the country he plays for.
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Offline Kaizer

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2005, 10:35:40 am »
I wont go into the boo boys, but I dont share your enthusiasm for Crouch.
Crouch is a striker, his job is to score goals, he dont, and he dont even get the opportunities to do it because he lacks one of the most important things a footballer in 2005 needs, he lacks pace.

We play with 5 midfielders, why cant they create our chances and not our striker?
Can someone please explain this?
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Offline SMD

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2005, 10:38:46 am »
What does Frank Lampard do that Crouch can't?


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Offline WalkinAlone

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2005, 10:40:35 am »
he is booed cause he is a stick insect

and people down south think the only reason he is playing for England is cause he is playing for Liverpool

people are definitely in totally opposite camps when it comes to Crouch..

you either love him or think, he is nothing special and can't score a goal for his life which is the generally agreed objective of strikers.

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2005, 10:41:23 am »
I wont go into the boo boys, but I dont share your enthusiasm for Crouch.
Crouch is a striker, his job is to score goals, he dont, and he dont even get the opportunities to do it because he lacks one of the most important things a footballer in 2005 needs, he lacks pace.

We play with 5 midfielders, why cant they create our chances and not our striker?
Can someone please explain this?


Pace isnt everything Dalglish was hardly linford christie fella, Toshack wasnt Iwan Thomas, hey maybe we should sign Ballyregan Bob now that has pace

Offline Forbsie

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2005, 10:41:48 am »
From what I recall he controlled ther ball in his area and then played a superb ball out to a man in space. No one notices this as he is a tall man. Crowd reaction was shocking but what do you expect from Old Trafford.

Roll on Wembley.

Do you think the treatment of Crouch will be any better down Wembley Way?

I remember the treatment they gave John Barnes at Wembley.
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Offline Kaizer

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2005, 10:48:45 am »

Pace isnt everything Dalglish was hardly linford christie fella, Toshack wasnt Iwan Thomas, hey maybe we should sign Ballyregan Bob now that has pace

No, but the players you mention do not play their football in 2005 either, do they?

To even compare King Kenny with Crouch is a big insult to maybe the biggest legend of them all.
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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2005, 10:48:50 am »
Very well written! I agree on crouch, he has a great touch and can pass the ball and his decision making on keeping the ball and when to pass is spot on.  A lot of criticism levelled at him is his goal scoring ratio, so I think this is one unfortunate part that a lot of football "experts" can lazily pick up on and use to write/talk a lot of drivel about him.

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2005, 10:56:37 am »
No, but the players you mention do not play their football in 2005 either, do they?

To even compare King Kenny with Crouch is a big insult to maybe the biggest legend of them all.

i am not comparing them i was just saying that Kenny didnt have pace same as Crouch that was the only comparison i was making la

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2005, 10:58:03 am »
I think people should be very careful before getting carried away on the "he's a striker his main objective is to score goals" bandwagon. As a striker your primary aim is to help your team score goals, whether this is by scoring them or creating them is irrelevant.

As we're discussing England, then how about England's best recent striking partnership. Beardsley and Lineker. In the 1986 world cup they were electric and powered England through to that meeting with God (or his hand at least). Lineker won the golden boot but from memory Beardsley only scored once and that was when Lineker was not on the pitch.

Does that mean Beardsley was a failure?
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Offline SuperSub77

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2005, 10:58:49 am »
Good read Paul.

Glad this fortnight is over. Shame about the mentality of many of the England fans. Does my fuckin head in all this boooo/Ingurlund/you're not singin anymore (repeat) shite.

Why is there always the need for someone to be singled out for criticism no matter what?

I remember as a kid loving watching England play. Not the same now. How the fuck can I get excited about the England Boys club, Ferdinand in his schoolgirl stockings and lovely hair (not that there's anything wrong with that on a slender female),  Players disrespecting the shirt they wear being spoilt little bastards?

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2005, 11:11:29 am »
Joe Cole condemns fans' Crouch abuse 
 
England midfielder Joe Cole described the boos greeting Peter Crouch's arrival as a substitute against Poland on Wednesday as "ridiculous".
Liverpool striker Crouch, 24, received a hostile reception at Old Trafford when he replaced Shaun Wright-Phillips in the World Cup qualifier.

Cole, 23, told BBC Radio Five Live: "It was ridiculous, he is a great player.

"Peter is an important member of the squad and he is going to have some great moments in an England shirt."

Cole added: "The booing of Peter was not good. Unfortunately, people believe what they read in the papers."

Wright-Phillips turned in an impressive performance on the right-hand side of England's midfield.

However, boss Sven-Goran Eriksson defended his decision to replace the Chelsea player with Crouch.

And he also insisted that he did not know if the crowd were booing the forward or the Swede because of his decision.

Eriksson said: "It was the right decision to substitute him, he got a knock in the first half and was not 100% fit.

"I understand the reaction but I do not know who was being booed, whether it was me or Crouch.

"Crouch is a good footballer. He had played only one-and-a-half internationals before this gamer. He has something other players don't. It is very harsh to judge him now."


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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2005, 11:18:25 am »
maybe we should sign Ballyregan Bob now that has pace
and with his win ratio we'd be level with chelsea.
good thoughts, (thread starter) a few points id like to add though. i learnt many moons ago if i was watching footy to either turn the commentary off or not consciously listen to it. that prick motty has so few valid points theres no shock in that he cant understand SGE's decisions. (whilst i dont agree with them, i'd like to think i understand why hes doing them) i used to like the insight don howe gave during his footy italia stint (but admittedly he wasnt everyones cup of tea)
the journos PM and BW, spend most sunday mornings wanking over all things that are blue in london. apart from the winning team when was the last time you heard positive comments from any tabloid journo ? the most successful teams over the last decade are in total disarray, (according to them) surely its just chelsea raised the bar, not they've collapsed. its easier and more financial rewarding to be controversial than supportive. when was the very last time an article by one of these writers (broadest context) was two pages of support for a cause (unless its their own case) it dont happen, they wouldnt know how to or indeed want to.
the saddest thing is regarding crouch is so many liverpool fans arent even seeing what he offers.
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Offline Dick Winters

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2005, 11:33:14 am »
I have to say I didn't watch the match last night - I was watching our lot go out with a whimper against Switzerland.

I agree with the sentiments raised by Paul.  I don't think that Crouch will ever get the respect he deserves for a couple of reasons. 

The way he looks - doesn't matter what he does people who don't watch him play will always assume that he is ungainly and awkward.  (Which is complete bollocks)

Carra was mentioned earlier in this thread in comparison to Rio.  I agree, like Carra, Crouch seems a modest and quiet sort of player.  He gets on with his work and trains hard.  The way Harry Redknapp said that he continued as a model pro with all the speculation this summer highlights this.  Therefore, he will never make the headlines and will never be a media darling so the press will continue to hound him.  The morons will obviously follow.

I am not 100% convinced about Crouch yet.  I will give him the benefit of the doubt and support him fully as Rafa knows a hell of a lot more than me.  I do think he has skill by the bucket load and his awareness is excellent and I hope he will prove everyone how good he is.

Plus, I think idiots who boo any player are a disgrace.  Yes, disagree with his selection - rant about it with your mates but to boo inanely at someone you don't like is just not on.



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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2005, 11:37:01 am »
I personally think the whole argument is pointless, if players didnt want to play for their country and it was some mandatory FIFA/FA ruling then fair enough but you tell a player hes not going to the World Cup because his clubs more important and he will tell you where to go im sure. Look at players like Owen who has changed his club team for the good of his international career and Cisse who is considering doing the same. I would say the World Cup is the most important thing to many players these days, at least the ones playing at a level to have a decent crack of doing well in it.


Did you read the piece? Doesn't seem like you did - as you're basically saying what I said.


Have you joined the NUJ and sworn not publically criticise colleagues writing since you started writing for the official site?  ;)


Hmm, I thought I was clearly calling them a couple of twats.

By 'journalists', I meant they might be good at finding scoops and exclusive stories, etc. But as football pundits - forget it.

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2005, 11:44:44 am »
listening to Talk sh*te this morning,(i know),Graham Beacroft did his best to defend Crouch against the moronic ill informed ranters that usually frequent this show,but it did seem alittle like Crouch was a wounded animal with all the usual pack following on trying to make their points more insulting than the one before.
Beacroft asked one air head,"you say he was poor tell me what he did wrong in both of the games",to which the guy said "nothing",proving the point that he didn't understand the game or the contribution the player was making just didn't like him.

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2005, 11:48:19 am »
your part about him being treated like at a school, being bullied by the "top dogs" is excellent and very true.

There have been so many morons slating him on the radio phone ins. They even today where claiming that ledley kign is better than gerrard and that sven should stick with that team because "joe cole" is englands "best player".

The thing is, how many of them watched the game? because i seem to remember cruoch starting the move that lead to the goal for england.
Another thing i hate is the

"bent has scored 7 goals, how many has crouch scored, none!" ranters.

For a start, bent has played every game, crouch has played 4 coming off an injury, and not even full games at that. Ive heard dicks phoning in with stuff like "crouch hasnt scored all season, in 8 games" fucking hell, how many teams have played 8 games in the league so far!!

Secondly, if your going by the "how many goals" logic, how many goals has owen scored to justify being ahead of the likes of defoe?

« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 11:51:49 am by ricflairandy »
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Offline ricflairandy

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2005, 11:55:01 am »
listening to Talk sh*te this morning,(i know),Graham Beacroft did his best to defend Crouch against the moronic ill informed ranters that usually frequent this show,but it did seem alittle like Crouch was a wounded animal with all the usual pack following on trying to make their points more insulting than the one before.
Beacroft asked one air head,"you say he was poor tell me what he did wrong in both of the games",to which the guy said "nothing",proving the point that he didn't understand the game or the contribution the player was making just didn't like him.

I heard that, i also heard alan brasil`s awsome description of carra.

"hes a good player who can do a job, but hes no ashley cole, i mean , i dont mean, erm, hes a solid defender who you can rely on if you need him, no, yes, no, i mean , am i doing him a disservice?, hes a good defender who is great back up to terry, ferdinand, nevile, campbell, cole and king."

What a tosser. Most people who watch the game will tell yuo that if sven picked the team on form, terry and carra would be the back 2, and ive even heard terry say that he rates carra as teh best defender int he prem somwhere.

And i heard teh caller who had the gem of "crouch would never have played for england if he didnt sign for liverpool" erm, didnt crouch play for england when he was with southampton?

Aswell as "crouch isnt a goalscorer, how many goals has he ever scored" erm, 16 last season in a shit team if i remember rightly. And 0 in 4 games so far this year.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 11:57:03 am by ricflairandy »
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Offline Red-juvenated

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2005, 12:08:00 pm »
Good post Paul, was completely perplexed by the English crowd booing one of their own players. I think this will put undue pressure on Crouch to prove himself at LFC, thats the last thing we wanted. Rafa will sure have a word with him but he'll have that nagging doubt at the back of his mind. I just hope that he has a cracker of a game soon and puts this all behind him.
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Offline zigackly

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Re: Post-International Rant - Liverpool Hampered
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2005, 12:26:27 pm »
Did he not start the move that led to the goal and ran the length of the pitch at the same time?

Can't have done, I was reading in the papers that he lacks mobility ;)
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Offline ElSheak

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2005, 12:34:26 pm »
In the Austria game Crouch was part of the best movement of the whole game. He recieved the ball just on the edge of the centre circle in the Austrian half, with his back to goal and produced a sweet back heel into Gerrards surging run,  Gerrard bent the ball round the defenders with a sublime pass to Owen. It was the best move of the game. Got no mention.

It's all to easy to pick a scapegoat for anything (as Luis Garcia knows - he has a shephard thats employed to defend him), and unfortunately Crouch is it for Ingurland. How anyone can boo a player from your own team is beyond me, its one thing to get a bit of banter for a cock up in play or have a fan groan at the thought of you coming on, but booing? Lets put one of these Ingurland knobhead supporters on the pitch for five minutes and see how they do.

Crouch is never played to be an out and out goal scorer. He's there as a player who will help you build up attacking play and get himself into to recieve the final delivery. They'd of been quiet if he'd set up two goals for FF. It's just bollocks. One of the finner points of Crouch is his charachter. Having stepped up the equivilant of half a league and playing for a top club, he has taken everything in his (giant) stride. After the abuse he has taken before and risen above (i'll stop the puns in a minute), he'll be ok and wont let this affect him. Its not justification of the shit he takes, its just a strength of personallity that he is unphased by the attitudes of wankers and concentrates on his game. Although if he was feeling low today, would anyone blame him.

Two fingers from me, us, and Crouch to the part-time beer boys of the 'English' supporters.
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Offline Firebird

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2005, 12:40:39 pm »
It's so hard not to utterly detest the press at times, and these morons that call themselves England fans that boo their own players.

But what can you do other than ignore these fckers?
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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2005, 12:43:07 pm »
In the Austria game Crouch was part of the best movement of the whole game. He recieved the ball just on the edge of the centre circle in the Austrian half, with his back to goal and produced a sweet back heel into Gerrards surging run,  Gerrard bent the ball round the defenders with a sublime pass to Owen. It was the best move of the game. Got no mention.


Yup, spot on. No mention for his near-post header that Owen nearly scored from, nor his precise through-ball to put Owen clear, etc etc.

Whenever he heads it, he's always looking to a teammate, not just aimlessly flicking it on, and when he has the ball at his feet he keeps the move going.

Players have had stick for England before, but booed and jeered in his first two home games? Fucking moronic.

Offline Hightown Phil

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2005, 12:52:49 pm »
I am currently listening to last night's 606.

"Why is Crouch playing for England when he isn't playing well in club football?"

I swear you couldn't fucking make it up.

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2005, 12:56:34 pm »
Sheringham always classed as a great link up player (to be fair because he is) but for all the play Bent he scores goals etc etc and Crouch doesnt score enough.

Sheringhams england record played 51 scored................11 just over 1 in 5 WOW.

But Shearer would have been lost without him

Gary Lineker and Peter Beardsley, 39 appearances, 33 goals
1986-1991: Lineker 27, Beardsley 6

Again Lineker would have been lost without him

So all this he MUST score shed loads is total bollox.

Against Austria his flick on won the penalty, he comes on at 1-1 and his control and pass set up cole who inturn finds Lampard for the winning goal.

2 games (1 as sub) 2 assists.  Nuff said

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2005, 12:57:02 pm »
The booing of Crouch was unfair. However it is just his bad luck that he looks so awkward, the ill informed fan or pundit that sees him play thinks he is a bit shit to be playing International football. In some ways there is something in the debate that Crouch can only do certain things and not others and as internationals players who play in certain positions ought to have a larger range of abilities than Crouch has presently. However he does offer a lot as a link up man and offers something different to the run of the mill striker. It's a shame he was booed however, but putting a neutral hat on here some do wonder how a striker who hasnt really looked like scoring has been picked for England. However for Crouch's benefit Sven has seen him from what Rafa and LFC saw in him, which in the long run should benefit him hopefully, if he shows the strength to ignore the ill informed

Those idiots who booed him were wrong. However remember certain members of our own support saw fit to boo Kewell in the CL final when he hobbled off. Before this thread descends in to another Ingerlund slagging fest, remember the saying that those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones :-\

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2005, 12:58:33 pm »
Difference between booing players off and booing players on though isn't there?

Doesn't excuse it though. . .

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2005, 01:02:09 pm »
but putting a neutral hat on here some do wonder how a striker who hasnt really looked like scoring has been picked for England.

Sheringham always classed as a great link up player (to be fair because he is) but for all the play Bent he scores goals etc etc and Crouch doesnt score enough.

Sheringhams england record played 51 scored................11 just over 1 in 5 WOW.

But Shearer would have been lost without him

Gary Lineker and Peter Beardsley, 39 appearances, 33 goals
1986-1991: Lineker 27, Beardsley 6

Again Lineker would have been lost without him

So all this he MUST score shed loads is total bollox.

Against Austria his flick on won the penalty, he comes on at 1-1 and his control and pass set up cole who inturn finds Lampard for the winning goal.

2 games (1 as sub) 2 assists.  Nuff said


obviously didnt sink in the first time

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2005, 01:11:41 pm »
I wont go into the boo boys, but I dont share your enthusiasm for Crouch.
Crouch is a striker, his job is to score goals, he dont, and he dont even get the opportunities to do it because he lacks one of the most important things a footballer in 2005 needs, he lacks pace.



I've seen this before about Crouch lacks pace.

Did you see when England had a counter attack on v Austria and Owen and Crouch were running from 30 yard away to get into the box. Owen didn't out pace Crouch.

I think Crouch is faster than people think but his long strides make him look like he's running slower.

Plus Crouch uses his pace when he needs it.

He's not Cisse who will beat a man with his pace from a ball over the top. Generally.
Crouch plays with his back to goal because that his role.. Cisse plays with his shoulders already turned ready for the through ball.

But it seems even some Liverpool supporters have the same opinion of Crouch that it's all about scoring goals. If Liverpool don't have two 20 goal scorers playing in the striker positions, then whomever isn't scoring is crap...

Crouch the new Heskey... Not enough goals so he's crap no matter what strengths he brings to the side. The manager picks him because he's doing what is a benefit to the side, so get behind the lad who wears Liverpool Red.
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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2005, 01:11:43 pm »
obviously didnt sink in the first time

Not saying I dont agree, but Sheringham was a better player I think than Crouch will be. Can see the similarity. However Sheringham had a greater cuteness and polish to his play. Perhaps Crouch could develop that in time but he is not there as yet

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2005, 01:16:08 pm »
I heard that, i also heard alan brasil`s awsome description of carra.

"hes a good player who can do a job, but hes no ashley cole, i mean , i dont mean, erm, hes a solid defender who you can rely on if you need him, no, yes, no, i mean , am i doing him a disservice?, hes a good defender who is great back up to terry, ferdinand, nevile, campbell, cole and king."

What a tosser. Most people who watch the game will tell yuo that if sven picked the team on form, terry and carra would be the back 2, and ive even heard terry say that he rates carra as teh best defender int he prem somwhere.

And i heard teh caller who had the gem of "crouch would never have played for england if he didnt sign for liverpool" erm, didnt crouch play for england when he was with southampton?

Aswell as "crouch isnt a goalscorer, how many goals has he ever scored" erm, 16 last season in a shit team if i remember rightly. And 0 in 4 games so far this year.
true so true ,i find listening to this show doesnt inform or entertain me from a football prospective,just how poor the knowledge most have about the game,as for Brazil when he was on sly sports as a pundit he was "Man united brazil",now he is"celtic and ipswich brazil",oh and lets not forget "freebee name dropper i have a fantastic lifestyle brazil".

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2005, 01:17:44 pm »
Not saying I dont agree, but Sheringham was a better player I think than Crouch will be. Can see the similarity. However Sheringham had a greater cuteness and polish to his play. Perhaps Crouch could develop that in time but he is not there as yet

Not trying to make simularities about the players specifically but just trying to show that a Striker doesnt have too score loads to make goals but take him away and suddenly the goals for the Team dry up.

Sorry if OTT just really bugs me all the Anti Crouch moaners on TV in the paper etc

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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2005, 01:20:13 pm »
Hang on though, Crouch does score goals.
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Re: Post-international rant: Liverpool hampered
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2005, 01:22:39 pm »
Crouch is a very confident young lad. He's been ridiculed all his footballing life. He gets ridiculed ALL the time on this site even by people who actually like him as a player.

He's had to live with it.

I will say this though. After going through a few clubs over the last couple of years he has found himself at one of the best clubs in the World. He will do everything Rafa tells him to do. rafa appears to be very happy with the job he is doing.

Anyone who thinks he was brought to the club to be the main goal scorer are living in some kind of dream World I have yet to discover.

I think he is an awesome player and it's Rafa's choice to play this way and the rest of the players will have to get used to it because this is the future.

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