Author Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0  (Read 21088 times)

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #40 on: April 1, 2014, 02:10:26 pm »
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kq9f9_hiep1_lifestyle&start=2930

My personal moment of the match. Skrtel, after a quality interception, spraying one with the outside of his boot, ending up with Suarez getting a freekick in a very good position.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #41 on: April 1, 2014, 02:43:03 pm »
Some great reads in these threads and, sorry in advance for my poor efforts, I can't resist a little ramble. After the game I was musing on what words I could come up with to describe – encapsulate - what I been watching. Not a lot of success really
Efficient, Competent, Capable, Accomplished – well not really. All true, but they don't sum us up.

The best that I can think of is consummate. If the English language has a word that means 'consummate' (skill & flair) + 'confidence' + 'fuck you I'm better'  then I'll have cracked it.

As is obvious, I'm scrambling around to sum up how good that was on Sunday. Others have mentioned the 'happenings' that led to the third goal – was that really our Skrtel doing that? The same Skrtel that played for us last season? - but I'd like to mention a little sequence that took place after about 40 mins. It's nothing all that earth shattering.

Spurs had an attack going down the right. Naughton crossed the ball fairly deep and it came to Johnson who was 7-8 yards or so inside the box. There was a Spurs player further over just outside the box about 10 yards away. Instead of putting his head on it as hard as he could, he nods it carefully down to Coutinho, who's just outside the box.  I said it wasn't earth shattering! But it was a lovely moment. Done with CONSUMMATE EASE.

That's it really. Coutinho lays it off to Sterling who tries a long ball to Sturridge which breaks down. Sterling continues his run (at about 150 mph) and pinches the ball back. He gets to the bye line and crosses to Suarez only for f*****g Lloris to make an absolutely fantastic save.

I think it was Aristotle above who said that the game was beyond analysis – so I'm not all alone then.

That little nod down really did warm the cockles of the heart though. And done with consummate ease!

« Last Edit: April 1, 2014, 02:45:26 pm by lfcderek »
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Offline MerseyMania

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #42 on: April 1, 2014, 03:28:06 pm »
Awesome read Yorky and E2k. I really thought Yorky hit the nail and no one could come up with anything on par if not better and then few write ups later I see E2K. Great stuff sir. Will read the remaining of your 1343 posts..

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #43 on: April 1, 2014, 03:39:24 pm »
From twitter, YNWA before kick off: http://t.co/8ZRZ3KtHzc
At the two minute mark, Soldado feels inspired to use the art of mime to express what he expects will happen to Spurs over the next 90 minutes. Their fans sing where's your scouser in attack. Ooh that never quite hurts.
« Last Edit: April 1, 2014, 03:43:19 pm by markedasred »
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #44 on: April 1, 2014, 03:54:52 pm »
Enjoyed the detail in Aristotle's post. They do do those things (don't they though?).

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #45 on: April 1, 2014, 03:56:17 pm »
At the two minute mark, Soldado feels inspired to use the art of mime to express what he expects will happen to Spurs over the next 90 minutes. Their fans sing where's your scouser in attack. Ooh that never quite hurts.

He was mesmerised by the Kop before kick off when he wasn't bending over and doing Ace Ventura talking anus style movements as he stretched. He kept looking round at it, agog.

Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #46 on: April 1, 2014, 04:09:15 pm »
That was a brilliant read E2K

I was nervous before the match because this was a big opportunity after dropped points by City and Chelsea, then the camera panned to the Spurs players and they were like lambs to the slaughter... you could see most of them were worried about what they going to come up against.

Then withini 2 minutes, we scored. I was still somewhat nervous for about 5 more minutes waiting their response.... still nothing from Spurs. Then I knew I had nothing to worry about. They had given up the game.

If they had come at us like Sunderland did, maybe the analysis would have been more interesting, as it is, I felt this was the easiest 3 points we will have in the run-in

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #47 on: April 1, 2014, 04:17:37 pm »
When City arrive again in two weeks, they’ll be facing the culmination of that kind of vision.

A lovely post as always, but I'm gonna be pernickety in the nicest possible way. For me, we're only just arriving at the starting line for the club, because things are *starting* to integrate. The shell's still a bit shoogly, but Humpty's just about been put back together again. The culmination is another matter entirely (and that's what's scary).

We're seeing signs of real game intelligence - seeds of the kind of maturity great sporting sides express. I always hark back to the 2003 England rugby side, as many on here are no doubt bored of. But it's that quality. Suarez, Johnson, and other key players could learn from Raheem Sterling at this point, for example. He seems to have really taken a few fundamental points on board and started to really embody them. Henderson's getting there gradually too. Gerrard's even starting to gain an appreciation of team shape, you saw it on Sunday.

When that really beds in across the squad, and when they collectively learn to respond and vary things in game, it'll matter less and less how much oil money people have. The only limit will be Rodgers' ambition at that point.

Regardless, another lovely post. A great read, this thread.
« Last Edit: April 1, 2014, 04:19:53 pm by royhendo »

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #48 on: April 1, 2014, 04:23:56 pm »
Going to have to take issue with that 'even Gerrard' there! Seems like he's unfairly been categorised as a player who lacks intelligence, simply because of the box-to-box nature that he built his name on. Which is nonsense of course. He wouldn't have been capable of playing multiple roles under Rafa Benitez otherwise. I think the lad has shown more than anybody since his transition to our sole anchor in midfield that he knows how Rodgers wants his team to set up, and is more than capable of fulfilling it.

As such, if he does pick up a booking in the next two matches, it's going to be a massive dent in our title ambitions.

Offline Not A Scouser

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #49 on: April 1, 2014, 04:41:54 pm »
One of the things that impresses me most about Brendan Rodgers is how quickly he transforms his ideas into tangible actions on the pitch.  Last week we spent the last part of the game in backs-to-the-wall, last ditch defending.  There was fear, we might throw this all away.  It wasn't a lack of ability, or the willingness to do anything for the win, there was plenty of "mentality" there but it was nervous.  The team either attacked, or defended.

A week later and the word that I would use for the game is, "control."  Brendan Rodgers had clearly talked to the players about the importance of controlling the ball.  It's something he harks on week in and week out, but there really seemed to be a deeper understanding of the concept this time around.

The scores were the same in each week at 50 minutes into the game.  Last week Sunderland brought on a couple of players and the mood of the game changed, they had hope and we thought we could lose it. This week nothing changed.  The entire team looked calm, the ball was stroked around until space was opened up and the attack occurred instantaneously and at real pace.  When you are 2-0 up the opposition have to come to you, and this team should welcome that because of the space it opens up.  There have been a number of individual incidents described above that encapsulate this idea.

PoP had talked a few weeks ago that the team didn't really read the game well yet, didn't know when to slow the game down or speed it up.  The players didn't understand each other well enough to know when that was going to happen.  It seemed like the team had got that concept in the space of a week.  This team seemed mature.  To me this seemed like the blueprint of Rodgers' vision turning into the framework of the house he wants to build.  Savagely relentless against teams trying not to lose, icy cold professionalism against those trying to win.

I liked it a lot.

p.s.  Johnson really is very good when his body works, isn't he?

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #50 on: April 1, 2014, 04:43:58 pm »
Going to have to take issue with that 'even Gerrard' there! Seems like he's unfairly been categorised as a player who lacks intelligence, simply because of the box-to-box nature that he built his name on. Which is nonsense of course. He wouldn't have been capable of playing multiple roles under Rafa Benitez otherwise. I think the lad has shown more than anybody since his transition to our sole anchor in midfield that he knows how Rodgers wants his team to set up, and is more than capable of fulfilling it.

As such, if he does pick up a booking in the next two matches, it's going to be a massive dent in our title ambitions.

Without wanting to derail the thread, you've read something into the sentence that isn't there. You even echo the point I'm making in your own last sentence.

At no point do I suggest he lacks intelligence. But most would concede he's never been a controller of his side's mode of play at any stage of his career to date. If he keeps learning then there's scope for him (and others in his role, lest we forget) to adapt to what they see in front of them during games.

He's shown glimpses of it in earlier seasons - 08/09 away to chelsea, for example, in the first minute of the 1-0 win, he was reminding Robbie Keane he was meant to stick on John Obi Mikel. But this is different. He's starting to really read the game in a proper holistic way I'd argue.
« Last Edit: April 1, 2014, 04:48:35 pm by royhendo »

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #51 on: April 1, 2014, 04:46:49 pm »
Love reading the roundtable thread,it's always great reading.
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #52 on: April 1, 2014, 04:58:57 pm »
Some great stuff in here, as per. I go along with many others in proclaiming the 3rd goal to be our best goal of the season so far. Not the most spectacular, obviously; Suarez alone has colonised that particular
category, and almost on a weekly basis. But as Yorky argued, it's more the symbolic nature of the goal, what it represents not just for the here and now, but for the future. It was from my
hazy memory a Paisley type goal too. A move started in the back line and finished in the final third of the opposition pitch. I love those types of goals. Under Paisley, however, it would be Hansen
and Lawrenson (or Thomo & Emlyn Hughes) intercepting and taking the ball from the opposition attacking the edge of our own half and then move the ball forward with a series of one twos etc.

Not quite the seventh goal against Tottenham in 78. But it will do for starters.

Also, thought it was pretty much impossible to pick out a man of the man.. Always a good sign. But if pushed, I'd have to pick out Raheem Sterling again. All over the park, he was sensational. The
next part of his development will, hopefully, be adding more goals, but he has so much time on his hands. And he's in good hands, too. Should have at least had two assists - Lloris' save from
Suarez was just incredible and Henderson miss forgivable. But in both of those moves, he showed both his determination, maturity, awareness of those around him and his outright talent.
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #53 on: April 1, 2014, 05:13:55 pm »
The Suarez goal from Johnson's cross (Cardiff) & Coutinho's goal deserve equal recognition imo. Press high? See what we can do to your so called pressure. Drop deep & block the space? You missed a spot!  ;D
So you see it's unfair to epitomise Rodgers with just 1 goal. He is more than a one trick pony. He deserves at least 2!  :D

E2K: Brilliant mate!  :thumbup
« Last Edit: April 1, 2014, 05:16:52 pm by Livo.85 »

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #54 on: April 1, 2014, 05:33:57 pm »
The third goal is much talked about, and quite rightly. So I'm going to talk about it again. And not with average positions or stats or heat maps. Just images of the lead-up to it, because it was quite important for several reasons.

Let's start with the initial possession. It started from a throw to us, just inside Spurs' attacking third, played short:




The normal English way of playing would have the attacking team either taking a long throw, or laying a ball off to be sent forward. Not Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool, though. A short throw was taken, Henderson looking for options, but instead, sent it back to Agger, in central defence:



This is counter-intuitive to the "English Way". Liverpool had just given up territorial advantage in a good area. At the most dangerous scoreline in football - 2-0. And they did this with more than 30 minutes left to play. A short exchange of passes was inevitable going to end up with a direct ball into the forwards from a set-up pass by Gerrard to Agger, surely? No. It was played into Henderson, who was facing his own goal:



From here, Spurs must have been quite happy, as not only was the ball out of their attacking third, but they were forcing it backwards, a key factor that any defending team wants to see - prevent them from turning, and force them back to their own goal. So they must have been equally as happy to see Henderson play it all the way back to Mignolet, who then spread it to Skrtel, who had pulled wide, creating a huge gap in front of goal. All Spurs had to do now is pressure it, win it, and a shot on goal was surely theirs:



They even managed to get into position to cut off the passing lanes, so Skrtel was in trouble now. He only had a square pass to Agger as a real option, and nobody plays it square across the box. Cardinal sin numero uno in possession in the back third:



Nobody takes that option. So Agger dropping square into the penalty area was pretty pointless. Spurs could smell a chance here. Only Mignolet was an option, and he sweats with the ball is at his feet. Get ready to pounce, because Spurs are pulling this back.

But no. Skrtel does what he's not "supposed" to do. He plays it square to the checking Agger. Agger receives it on the turn with good fundamentals that we come to expect from a Rodgers player:



And suddenly, from a position where Liverpool had lost territory, had turned to their own goal, played it back to their keeper, allowed Spurs to push forward to press and close off lanes ("shuffling and funnelling"), and only had the "bad" square option across the box to play, Liverpool had suddenly opened up the field and exposed a gaping chasm in the centre of the pitch. A short pass to Flanagan, a deft turn, a cut inside, and a sweet pass to Coutinho who drove the Spurs defenders back far enough to create a distance to shoot and score, and it is game over.

Everything about that goal was "wrong" in terms of how English teams play football, and conventional English football "wisdom". I am not ashamed to say, that goal gave me a lump in the throat. Not because of the bigger picture of it's meaning in the title race. But because it gave legitimacy to those of us who have taken up the yoke of developing players, who don't always get the results that the more "traditional" teams do at the youth levels, but who nevertheless proselytise about the right way to play - the harder to develop but infinitely more rewarding skilful way. The Liverpool Way. The way to play that will have coaches, players and neutrals flocking to watch each subsequent game to see what the Tricky Reds are "going to do this week". This was football from the heavens, in a short 30 second cameo. A taster of what will be in the next few years as the team gets stronger and stronger and more successful. I've said from the beginning that Rodgers is a man of vision, who wants to create at least one all-time great team. This was a snapshot of what that would look like. Creative, innovative, different - and unstoppable in full flow.
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Offline Mighty Zeus

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #55 on: April 1, 2014, 05:36:50 pm »
From twitter, YNWA before kick off: http://t.co/8ZRZ3KtHzc

A propos this video, look at Daniel Sturridge's face at 1:20.

Utterly, utterly revelling in it. Basking in it. Loving it.
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #56 on: April 1, 2014, 05:54:43 pm »
And to counterpoint E2K's textual stylings in a more graphic mode, this is the table nine games ago.



That's something. Isn't that something?
Fucking hell..How were Spurs level with us, incredible.

As many people predicted we've caught up and opened up gaps on Arsenal and Spurs during their tough run of fixtures :)


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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #57 on: April 1, 2014, 06:01:57 pm »
Nice commentary PoP. The thing that strikes me the most from that 3rd goal is how we managed to bypass the press and so easily take 6 or 7 players out of the play. It shows that the team has been working hard on keeping composure and building play from the back since the start of the season. Compare this to how Southampton managed to peg us back at Anfield earlier in the season.

It also seemed really obvious that Spurs were under instruction to press us without having been well-drilled enough in training to execute it properly. They had plenty of bodies up, but none of them were cutting off passing lanes so it was easy for Skrtel and Agger to play the square ball to eachother and out to the fullback. The defenders didn't trust themselves against our front 3 to press up high, so the result when Flanagan dribbled past the winger was that they were back-tracking in a 4-1-5 formation, with 6 players ahead of the ball when Flanagan threaded his pass through to Coutinho to effectively leave us with a  6v4 in their half.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #58 on: April 1, 2014, 06:48:57 pm »
..... And Flanagan, with one drop of his shoulder, showed why the approach opens things up for us, the ball taken past his mark, a simple ball to Coutinho, and a rampage up the nice long open pitch to daisy cut it into the far corner.

.....The stuff we always talked about on here - the stuff people said was geeky shoe-gazing nonsense, and Level 3 cobblers? Well, we're seeing it properly played out in front of our eyes. Here's to the first trophy being a big one.
..... The third goal should define the Brendan Rodgers era at Liverpool. Rodgers has every right to put the thing on his coat of arms when he retires. If anyone asks him what Liverpool FC is about he can just point to this goal.

..... Every single Liverpool player played superbly. There wasn't a blemish really.

..... And then there's Sterling (Rodger's Sterling as he should be known). What an effing player! That's twice now he's caused a collective nervous breakdown in the Spurs defence. He played three separate positions yesterday. Right wing, left wing and - towards the end - attacking central midfield.
.....And all the players played well, I could pick each one of them out for their contribution.*

..... Yep and it feels just wonderful watching this team.

....yesterday’s game against their neighbours Spurs was somewhat different. We landed another crushing early blow, true, but what came afterwards was a level of total control to an extent that we hadn’t yet seen from this team and was more akin to keeping our opponents at arm’s length as they hopelessly swung at thin air. In some ways, it was like we had taken the opening 20 minutes against Arsenal (after which we led 4-0) and stretched it out over a full 90 minutes (after which we led 4-0).

..... This Liverpool side goes from strength to strength and is writing a story that seems to demand a happy ending with more and more ferocity as the weeks go by. It’s not a humble suggestion or a respectful request anymore, it’s getting to be an outright decree, and it’s looking more likely that they’ll get it with each and every passing game.

.....These days (Skrtel) , he brings balls down on his chest effortlessly and immediately turns to attack; these days, he passes to teammates surrounded by two opposition players; these days, he’s become a latter-day Sami Hyypia from set-pieces, keeping this train rolling with the opening double-salvo against Arsenal and two superb finishes when his team was struggling against Cardiff. Suddenly, the big Slovakian who’s been a leader and justified every little bit of faith placed in him by his manager seems like the last player who should be losing his place in the team.

.....You look at Jon Flanagan and you just laugh at the beautiful absurdity of this young man coming in and playing to a level that none of us expected. You laugh at a Brazilian World Cup-winning full-back following him on Twitter and singing his praises, this young, unheralded local lad with 30-odd appearances to his name. You look at him and you just laugh at the magic of it all, of how he dropped the shoulder at Old Trafford and sent all £37m of Juan Mata on an Antarctic fishing expedition as he rampaged up the field, and yesterday, that turn, those tackles. Pure and utter desire. I wonder if Manchester City have someone like Jon Flanagan?

..... Fortune favours the bold. That’s just one word you could use to describe Brendan Rodgers too. When Skrtel made that howler against Manchester City to deny Liverpool a deserved win over the reigning champions in August 2012, Rodgers stated that “there’s no blame to Martin Skrtel, I’d rather have players wanting to get on to the ball. The courage he has to get on the football and try to play is what is the most important thing”. When City arrive again in two weeks, they’ll be facing the culmination of that kind of vision.
Should we all be calling this the start of Total Football at Liverpool?

It's certain that Flanagan and Skrtel have provided more magic moments for me in the last few weeks/months than anyone (apart from Suarez of course and he doesn't count). They're defenders - of the 'solid' sort. Coutinho has technical ability oozing out of every orifice so you expect things from him. Suarez is a genius and is mad - count him out. Gerrard, Sterling, even Johnson you expect things from. But Skrtel?
..... I get the feeling that, should these lads face a moment of truth, a gut-check, call it what you will, they’ll face it and stare it down together, as a team, as a “group”. No doubt in my mind.

This team has been forged through wind and rain, through hardship and trial, and now a fanbase glimpsing history is joining in and making itself heard like never before. I’m now convinced that the togetherness, the bond of teammate and fan alike, is what will pull this team over the line and give it that extra advantage to make up for having Victor Moses where City have Edin Dzeko to come off the bench, where Chelsea have Schurrle.

..... The manager has held his nerve with youth, with his beliefs, with players who had been written off, and it should come as no surprise that his team is holding theirs. It’s built in his image, after all. The smile near the end yesterday told you everything. He’s actually fucking enjoying this, the mad bastard! Well consider me a stark-raving lunatic then because I’m loving it too…
The nub of it all really. One thing I've noticed again, and again, and again this year - when someone scores they make damned sure everyone in the ground knows who made the assist. And gets some of the plaudits. A wonderful, wonderful demonstaration of team spirit!

It's the whole club coming together, players, U18s, U21s, manager, fans, staff, - everyone.
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Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #59 on: April 1, 2014, 07:01:20 pm »
What a thread!

Again, my apologies for adding the combined sum of zilch, nada and zip to the round table, but holy hell people..

Thanks to all contributers.
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #60 on: April 1, 2014, 07:42:28 pm »


Everything about that goal was "wrong" in terms of how English teams play football, and conventional English football "wisdom". I am not ashamed to say, that goal gave me a lump in the throat. Not because of the bigger picture of it's meaning in the title race. But because it gave legitimacy to those of us who have taken up the yoke of developing players, who don't always get the results that the more "traditional" teams do at the youth levels, but who nevertheless proselytise about the right way to play - the harder to develop but infinitely more rewarding skilful way. The Liverpool Way. The way to play that will have coaches, players and neutrals flocking to watch each subsequent game to see what the Tricky Reds are "going to do this week". This was football from the heavens, in a short 30 second cameo. A taster of what will be in the next few years as the team gets stronger and stronger and more successful. I've said from the beginning that Rodgers is a man of vision, who wants to create at least one all-time great team. This was a snapshot of what that would look like. Creative, innovative, different - and unstoppable in full flow.



While I agree that how we dealt with the apparent 'emergency' once the ball got to Skrtel was outstanding and counter-intuitive, I would like to know if it's just me and my uneducated eyes who thought that Agger's pass to Henderson (see above image) and Henderson's pass to Mignolet (see below image) were not "indicated" at all, not "smart choices" within the parameters of the "right way to play football".



I've been impressed with Henderson's development this season but his inability/unwillingness, using his dominant foot no less and having turned slightly to his left, to find Coutinho (was it?) in the middle of the pitch instead of going backwards and passing long back to Mignolet, was frustrating and indicative that he's not QUITE there.

I may be talking shite, though, so I'd love to be set straight.
« Last Edit: April 1, 2014, 07:45:16 pm by GrkStav »
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Offline houkura

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #61 on: April 1, 2014, 07:45:06 pm »
Wonderful posts in here fellas. Thanks. A joy to read.

4 goals that all typified Brendan's reign. Even the own goal was "made in Melwood". I can hardly add to what's already been written. On to West Ham!


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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #62 on: April 1, 2014, 08:33:35 pm »
Has anyone worked out Brendan Rodgers' various whistles?

During the match he'll often whistle twice or three times. I'm convinced it's to do something as it's not followed by any vocal instruction to a player or to summon someone over during a break in play. It will happen when the ball is in play and I really want to know if it's meaningful

I know I'm not going mad. I'm going grey but not mad :)
Just clicked on the main board and my virus scanner came back with this

"When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors."


:lmao

Strip his knighthood https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/47770

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #63 on: April 1, 2014, 08:36:43 pm »


I've been impressed with Henderson's development this season but his inability/unwillingness, using his dominant foot no less and having turned slightly to his left, to find Coutinho (was it?) in the middle of the pitch instead of going backwards and passing long back to Mignolet, was frustrating and indicative that he's not QUITE there.

I may be talking shite, though, so I'd love to be set straight.

He may not have known how far away the Spurs player was, so turning in that direction risked the ball so he probably didn't think it was an option.
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Offline houkura

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #64 on: April 1, 2014, 08:45:50 pm »
A propos this video, look at Daniel Sturridge's face at 1:20.

Utterly, utterly revelling in it. Basking in it. Loving it.

I like Mike Marsh towards the end there singing along. He's probably enjoying it as much as anyone!
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Offline Red Bird

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #65 on: April 1, 2014, 09:20:37 pm »
What a thread!

Again, my apologies for adding the combined sum of zilch, nada and zip to the round table, but holy hell people..

Thanks to all contributers.

I'll second this.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #66 on: April 1, 2014, 09:35:42 pm »
I've seen you write some beauties E2K, but that sir, probably tops the lot. Absolute brilliance.
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #67 on: April 1, 2014, 10:07:26 pm »
He may not have known how far away the Spurs player was, so turning in that direction risked the ball so he probably didn't think it was an option.

I don't know if it's a tired cliché but the top player have their head on a swivel and it's definitely an area Henderson can improve by my thinking. That being said I'm not sure it was the wrong choice on this occasion as Grkstav suggested.

One thing I like was with the pressing they had six players pressing five in our half. One cleaver move by Flanno and suddenly he's in acres of space goal side of his man, Coutinho also in the top of the screen in the last shot is goal side. That effectively gives us a small window where it's seven of our attackers against four defenders. Sturridge and Suarez are pushing the line back, Johnson is keeping them accountable out wide.....it was brutally efficient.
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #68 on: April 1, 2014, 10:34:51 pm »
Without wanting to derail the thread, you've read something into the sentence that isn't there. You even echo the point I'm making in your own last sentence.

At no point do I suggest he lacks intelligence. But most would concede he's never been a controller of his side's mode of play at any stage of his career to date. If he keeps learning then there's scope for him (and others in his role, lest we forget) to adapt to what they see in front of them during games.

He's shown glimpses of it in earlier seasons - 08/09 away to chelsea, for example, in the first minute of the 1-0 win, he was reminding Robbie Keane he was meant to stick on John Obi Mikel. But this is different. He's starting to really read the game in a proper holistic way I'd argue.

Rafa let Gerrard of the leash to run rampant, made the most of his 'lack of discipline', now under Bredan he's learning to love that leash and embrace the power it's giving him.

Offline robgomm

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #69 on: April 1, 2014, 10:53:11 pm »
Stats warning!

Mignolet: 85% pass completion
Johnson: 94%
Agger: 90%
Skrtl: 92%
Flanagan: 91%

It's taken months of work and we've seen performances where our possession play has been excellent. But remember talk of Rodgers' 'abandoning his philosophy'? That's the tactical nous, the pragmatism that makes us adaptable. Just lately with a relatively consistent team and fewer injuries (at one point our injury record was the worst in the league if I recall rightly) we have seen a real consistent coming together of Rodgers' underlying philosophy: take care of the ball.

This for me is backed up by the stats again. This season we're eigth in the possession table but fourth for pass accuracy. Even when we've given up the ball for longer periods, we've still taken care of it.


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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #70 on: April 1, 2014, 11:22:17 pm »
Enjoyed the detail in Aristotle's post. They do do those things (don't they though?).

It just stuck with me when I saw it. It was, to me, a definite sign of knowing the game. I fucking love it when Suarez does this too with the 'new offside'. That Cardiff goal was the perfect example of it. It looks mental to all of us who learned the old offside rule. He was so blatantly offside that Cardiff were delighted to only have to focus their 5 defenders against Sturridge. Then in comes the ball from Henderson, Johnson squares it and Suarez taps it in with time and space to scratch his arse and wave to the crowd.

Sturridge has done this too, in a less blatant manner. He's not just holding onto the shoulder of the defence, he's systematically going behind them. We've seen him judged offside more often post-injury, now that he's fully fit again. There was a Dutch youth coach I met years ago who was full of golden phrases. Maybe not quoting the soundbites correctly but he was convinced these are the things you should do to defenders who seek the safety of the penalty box. "If you take a strong defender and push him, he will push back and he will win. If you take a strong defender, run away and make him chase you and you will win." He was convinced that you could drag a defensive line deeper with a well place offside. I haven't tested it out like he has, but it's stuck with me. He would in the opening minutes have them bombard long through passes, over the tall center backs, to the fastest player on the pitch. I only watched the two games but it always worked. When you plant the idea in their head that when the ball comes they can't head it away and they can't catch the runner so they drop deeper so they won't get caught out and the passes aren't as high. Even if you get caught offside you've planted the idea in their head from the kick-off.

Now it's beyond me to say whether this is something we're doing or whether it's an eccentric coaching thing, although the Dutch school of football is always on the forefront in such matters. Whatever it is there is an element of what we do, we do well and we do it effectively. We've seen cynical fouls from Gerrard time and time again (my personal hypothesis is that he's getting away with dirty fouls and cheap free kicks because the press for all their shite, rarely go after the England captain on things they can be hooked for in internationals). We've seen Flanagan doing 'the Arbeloa' of ruthlessly taking down players and then running up to the ref with a face that makes you think that he just isn't smart enough to pull those off.


Whatever big or small. If there is an advantage to take, I've got more faith in us than them to do it.
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Offline woof

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #71 on: April 1, 2014, 11:38:02 pm »
Some talk about how shite Scum and Spurs played against us, like they were destined to lose even before the match started. It's not how badly they played but it's how bad we made them look. It's a combination of employing the right tactics, having the belief (and sometimes construed as arrogance) and having every team member give their 100%. When we were stuttering (by that I meant the 1-0 scoreline) at the start of the season, we had a couple of players who didn't quite pull their weight in matches (read: Johnson, Skrtel, Coutinho, etc.). But look at the team now. The transformation is complete. We play with the swagger that we'll just beat any team into submission.

Now that we're top, let's show the league we can stay that way.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #72 on: April 1, 2014, 11:45:25 pm »
It just stuck with me when I saw it. It was, to me, a definite sign of knowing the game. I fucking love it when Suarez does this too with the 'new offside'. That Cardiff goal was the perfect example of it. It looks mental to all of us who learned the old offside rule. He was so blatantly offside that Cardiff were delighted to only have to focus their 5 defenders against Sturridge. Then in comes the ball from Henderson, Johnson squares it and Suarez taps it in with time and space to scratch his arse and wave to the crowd.

Sturridge has done this too, in a less blatant manner. He's not just holding onto the shoulder of the defence, he's systematically going behind them. We've seen him judged offside more often post-injury, now that he's fully fit again. There was a Dutch youth coach I met years ago who was full of golden phrases. Maybe not quoting the soundbites correctly but he was convinced these are the things you should do to defenders who seek the safety of the penalty box. "If you take a strong defender and push him, he will push back and he will win. If you take a strong defender, run away and make him chase you and you will win." He was convinced that you could drag a defensive line deeper with a well place offside. I haven't tested it out like he has, but it's stuck with me. He would in the opening minutes have them bombard long through passes, over the tall center backs, to the fastest player on the pitch. I only watched the two games but it always worked. When you plant the idea in their head that when the ball comes they can't head it away and they can't catch the runner so they drop deeper so they won't get caught out and the passes aren't as high. Even if you get caught offside you've planted the idea in their head from the kick-off.

Now it's beyond me to say whether this is something we're doing or whether it's an eccentric coaching thing, although the Dutch school of football is always on the forefront in such matters. Whatever it is there is an element of what we do, we do well and we do it effectively. We've seen cynical fouls from Gerrard time and time again (my personal hypothesis is that he's getting away with dirty fouls and cheap free kicks because the press for all their shite, rarely go after the England captain on things they can be hooked for in internationals). We've seen Flanagan doing 'the Arbeloa' of ruthlessly taking down players and then running up to the ref with a face that makes you think that he just isn't smart enough to pull those off.


Whatever big or small. If there is an advantage to take, I've got more faith in us than them to do it.

You can see better what you're talking about when you play against sweeper systems. If the other team have marking backs, you can often literally walk them into the box and just wait for the long passes to your feet. Players brought up in man-marking are cautious by nature (look at Skrtel and how he retreats when confronted with a 1v1), and they will often strive to kill the space behind them rather than confront the ball and squeeze the space in front of them. Zonally trained defenders don't do this so much, but they often get lost with the players on their far shoulder, which is why through balls and blindside runs are a great combination to beat a zonal back four (which we are very good at).
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Offline redmen77

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #73 on: April 1, 2014, 11:46:31 pm »
Some brilliant posts on here, apologies for my efforts below.

What's so utterly brilliant about this squad of players, is that to a man the realisation that working your socks off, closing down, playing to the system (whichever one BR has employed) and the confidence they have in each other is what will bring success. The work rate to a man against Spurs was unbelievable, characterised by Aggers dive to prevent Chadli's goal bound effort at 4-0. Add the crisp passing, great movement and dominant possession and it really was a perfect day.

They know they have no divine right to be top of the league, to be beating teams by convincing margins and to be lauded as potential champions but by god they have belief and a maturity beyond their years. This team won't be put off by the Mourinho mind games, this team know they have a job to do, one game at a time, no more, no less - one game at a time.

It's brilliant that the crowd understands its role too - getting in the ground early, standing up in true champions league style and blowing the roof off. I normally leave my seat with my lad in Block 203 and head down the 203 entrance on the final whistle. Something told me to head down to 103 in added time with my 11 year old lad in toe. I'd normally be halfway down the back of the Kop when the players are heading off the pitch but felt I needed to acknowledge a performance that epitomised the season so much. How glad I am that we went in to 103 and joined in with the mighty roar of such raw (pardon the pun) intensity it left my son open mouthed. I used to tell him of the atmosphere of a champions league night, now he knows and me thinks he is going to experience a few more of his own before this season is out!

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #74 on: April 1, 2014, 11:54:30 pm »
What a great win on Sunday, tremendous atmosphere and just playing some really confident football right now. I keep hearing this team reminds us of the 87/88 side perhaps even better and while its impossible to say who would have won if the the different eras could meet at their best but here is how their numbers compare after 32 games

Current Side
Played 32 Won 22 Lost 5 Drawn 5 Goals For 88 Goals Against 39 Goals Difference 49 Points 71

87/88 Side
Played 32 Won 23 Lost 2 Drawn 7 Goals For 70 Goals Against 17 Goals Difference 63 Points 76

Amazing how well the current side is doing but still well behind the legends of Beardsley, Barnes & Co as the most important factor, points on the board show their 76 tally would have all the current teams floundering to stay on their tails. Pretty impressive goal difference as well which is primarily down to a better team overall, tight in defence and still able to find the net at will. Perhaps a tad silly to be comparing the teams esp when they were collecting their 6th title of that decade already but it just shows what this side is doing...its capturing our imagination again just like THEY did. Its bringing smiles to our faces like THEY did. Its going to bring success like THEY did. Its magic!!!!





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Offline John C

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #75 on: April 2, 2014, 12:06:14 am »
Has anyone worked out Brendan Rodgers' various whistles?

It's been part of his conductors DNA for a while H mate, Stevie is his sheepdog while the rest play to the tune. This week WHU are the sheep.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #76 on: April 2, 2014, 12:50:59 am »
I would just like to re-iterate again, because my post in the Suarez thread got blanked, that Suarez's first touch for his goal is out of this world. Its something most people probably won't notice but to drag that ball into his path whilst maintaining his stride at full speed is something special. Henry-esque.

Yeh mate, what a take that was, the man is a footballing genius.  Fantastic E2K!
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Offline Bobinhood

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #77 on: April 2, 2014, 01:22:53 am »
I think Aspas has tried to pay for himself by cheering from the bench. If you recall he was known as a shit disturber in spain and in the pre-season and the odd time he got on he does seem pretty chirpy, and then ive noticed him on his feet and talking on numerous occasions all year. Hes also made an excellent practice participant, not to be harsh to him. For me the lads doing everything he can with all hes got given his circumstances and hes been more than total dead weight hes pulling an teamwork oar even hes glued to the bench.


Im pretty sure there is a PHD thesis in Psychology in this title run for some bright youngster. The reactions are fucking amazing, my own internal included. Just the possibility being real is a 18 hour Energy Bar. and last weeks results is a ramp up because it concentrates the mind, as they say.

Please people, lets be carefull out there. The odds are still pretty iffy on this thing. No shame in being the most entertaining team anyone's seen in decades and pushing on from there, no matter the rub of the cloth going forward.

Giant Fuckin hard-on, though, 'innit!

 


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Offline Juanyboy

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #78 on: April 2, 2014, 02:33:19 am »


On Sunday 30th March 2014, Tottenham Hotspur came to Anfield, Liverpool. LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL. That afternoon forty four thousand, seven hundred and sixty two folk came, too. Forty four thousand, seven hundred and sixty two folk locked inside Anfield, Liverpool, LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL. Ten million more in the country, watching on television, locked outside Anfield, Liverpool, LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL. Several hundred million more in the world, locked outside Anfield, Liverpool, LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL, singing and shouting, inside Anfield, LIV-ER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL, singing and shouting, outside Anfield, Liverpool, LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL.

In the second minute, Glen Johnson took a pass from Raheem Sterling, and Kaboul scored an own goal. Twenty three minutes later, Michael Dawson of Tottenham Hotspur misplaced a pass inside his own half. Suarez gave chase, and Suarez shot low and Suarez scored again for LIV-ER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL. And at half time Liverpool Football Club lead 2-0. In the second half, coming from deep, John Flanagan passed the ball to Philippe Coutinho, and Philippe Coutinho shot low in to the back of the net. And in the seventy fifth minute, Tottenham Hotspur conceded a free kick. And Jordan Henderson scored from that free kick.

And that night Liverpool, LIV-ER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL, Liverpool Football Club had seventy one points, and had played thirty two games, Chelsea Football Club had sixty nine points and had played thirty two games, and Manchester City Football Cub had sixty seven points and had played thirty games. That evening, LIV-ER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL, LI-VER-POOL, Football Club were first in the Premier League. For now. There were still six more games to go, still six more games to play -

Brilliant.

Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #79 on: April 2, 2014, 03:14:28 am »
E2K's post deserves a thread on its own. Spellbinding stuff, mate. The usual insightful pieces from Yorky, Aristole, PoP and Roy, too :)
Words can't describe how I feel at the moment. I've had some dramas with my old man since the turn of the year, which has lingered in the back of mind during the unfathomable run of brilliance our great football team has displayed this past three months. In many ways I find myself in the lucky position of having such a charming distraction.

Driving back from the hospital last night and turning into my street, a solitary tear ran down my left cheek. Not because of my old man’s situation; hopefully that'll play out okay, but time will tell. It was because it finally hit me. We can actually win this! WE-CAN-ACTUALLY-WIN-THIS. Uttering those words cause immeasurable depths of pleasure. 

As a club, it goes without saying that we’ve been through many situations in the past 24 years. Some monumentally dazzling:  Istanbul being the apex. Some not so:  the hillbillies from across the pond claiming cowboy-esque ownership coupled with the appointment of Roy Hodgson. I feel pangs of guilt alluding to them in such an astute thread but we have to let the truth get in the way of a story on this occasion. 

Twists, turns, peaks, troughs, ups, downs, whichever way you want to put it. We haven’t been in a stronger position during the Premier League era. And not just because of the position we currently occupy on the table. We are still a team in transition. It’s frightening. So frightening I need to pinch myself through the day just to make sure I’m not sauntering through some dreamland high on acid.

Additions will be made, there’s no doubt about that. For me, though, we are one thing which our title rivals are not. An aspect they fail to boast and seemingly the most important aspect of all. We’re a team. A proper team. Dismantling Spurs the way we did illustrated such notions. ‘A team’ doesn’t play the way we did on Sunday unless its exactly that. ‘A team’. The composure (Mignolet, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Flanagan), the doggedness (Henderson, Gerrard), the guile and flair (Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling) and sheer will and win at all costs (Suarez). It takes all types to make a team, as it does to make the world we live in. That’s what makes our team so beautiful. Yes, beautiful. Underneath it all, there’s a will I’ve not seen any Liverpool team possess in the last 20 years. Rafa’s 08/09 went very close, but this is different.  I don’t wish to outline individual brilliance on the back of Sunday’s result because, to be honest, it was the complete team performance and not for the first time has this happened over the due course of this season. 11 heroes. Clichés really are based on truth.

The continuity of Bill Shankly’s ethos is something to behold. Brendan Rodgers has continued to pump blood into the organs of this football club. He’s done so by applying his own methods which stand on the shoulders of the giant that is Liverpool Football Club. His peerless calm is something I’ve not seen in a manager. It’s unbelievable. 

Many of us weren’t born in the golden years this football club experienced. I’ll say it with hand on heart. My heroes aren’t Hansen, Moltby, Rush, Dalglish. I’m well aware of their achievements and extremely proud of them, but I didn’t experience or feel their achievements vicariously simply because those moments weren’t lived. My heroes are Hyypia, Fowler, Gerrard. That’s okay, though. This team though? Words can’t describe it. This has the potential to be something special. Very special and if we can live these moments then it’s more than most could ask for in this lifetime.

I haven’t lived through a revolution but if the whistle blows on May 11 and we continue our current occupancy at the summit of the Premium League table then I’m pretty sure I, as well as many others, will know what a revolution feels like.
« Last Edit: April 3, 2014, 03:47:11 am by Alonso_The_Assassin »