Author Topic: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC  (Read 40568 times)

Offline DutchRed

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #40 on: February 9, 2014, 09:51:59 pm »
I'm starting to like Aly Cissokho. He's got his limitations but for a mercenary he's putting his body on the line well enough for the cause of the team. I appreciate that, massively.

Maybe I'm a bit of wanker but Raheem Sterling perhaps deserves some stick. He played Monreal drunk alright, but he was a bit selfish in the second half when he could have put it on a plate for Aspas. If anybody around Anfield needs a goal it's him. But then again to get two against the league leaders as a kid is more than I'd have wished for so I am indeed a wanker.

Somebody came up with a gif from the 2005 final, but my thoughts now run to the QF in that campaign, at home to Juventus. Prior to the match I was worried that Gerrard and Henderson wouldn't cut it against Ozil, Arteta, Cazorla and Wilshere. In the game against Juventus we just went for their throats and got two goals that eventually saw us through in half an hour of relentless attacking. This team, with maybe the greatest attacking force Liverpool have seen since the days of Roy Evans, didn't need half an hour to put this game to bed though. Twenty minutes was well enough. Talk largely went about how bad Arsenal were, but let's not forget they lead the league for a reason. These twenty minutes are the finest I've seen Liverpool play in a long, long time.

It's maybe time to put off the belittling 'underdog mask' we've worn all season due to our rake-thin squad. Beating Arsenal by 5 goals to 1 is a statement of intent if I ever saw one.

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Offline Aaron Rattray1

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #41 on: February 9, 2014, 09:54:39 pm »
Not sure if this allowed on the round table thread...
But if so a new feature from me, for every game i will watch the full game 3 or 4 times again and compose player ratings.

Mignolet, flapped a few times but that free kick save was very good, he saw it very late, i dont think reina would have saved it,and mignolet during the aston villa game would never have saved it, just proves hes an improvement 7

Flanagan, okay hes never spectacular and not naturally gifted but hes steady and a decent back up, nearly scored too 7

Skrtel his 2nd goal was brilliant, much improved from the skrtel of old, i think this game confirms that on his day he is world class 9

Toure, thought he looked shaky to be honest, hes 4th choice centre back in my eyes 6.5

Cissokho, quite decent defensively, again nothing spectacular but he is growing in confidence and getting better 7

Gerrard, brilliant set pieces today, needless tackle for the penalty though 8

Coutinho, hopefully this isn't a one off and he really is coming back into form, great vision, great balance, great footwork and that pass for sturridge goal was amazing, MOTM 9.5

Sterling, could have a got a hattrick, brilliant young talent,

Sturridge, thought he was quiet to be honest still got a goal though 7

Suarez hasn't scored for a while a now, very unlucky today too 8

Subs
Allen, passed tidily 7.5

Ibe, showed glimpses 7

Aspas, unfair to comment.

Hold on just notice i missed out henderson, well real box to box peformance 8

Do hope that is allowed?

What do you think to my ratings?

Offline TravisBickle

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #42 on: February 9, 2014, 10:04:21 pm »
 Yesterday's performance just proved exactly how incredible Luis Suarez is. It was special when he was banging in goal after goal after goal but what's even more impressive in my eyes is the way he has found a way of contributing even more to our overall player whilst not scoring at a ridiculous rate.

 Forget that he could have scored two of the best goals this season through THAT volley and his ridiculous free-kick. Just look at the way he won foul after foul, whipped balls in from set-pieces, set Sterling up for our third, put Sturridge in at 2-0 up etc. He is living evidence that you don't have to be a brute in the mould of Kevin Davies to hold the ball up well and bring others into play. It was a genuinely stunning performance.

 Unlike many people, I actually really rate Olivier Giroud for Arsenal. His role is not to hang on the shoulder of the last defender and get in behind teams - his job is to effectively hold the ball up and bring Arsenal's tricky midfielders into the game. Watch his performances this year and you'll see just how good he is for the likes of Ozil, Cazorla and (before he got injured) Ramsey. He's a hugely effective player. That was the role Suarez did yesterday. Unlike Giroud, he didn't go missing - that is down to his all round ability. It's what makes him the best striker in the world bar none.
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Offline rscanderlech

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #43 on: February 9, 2014, 10:05:32 pm »
Hi, everyone. This is my first 'serious' post on the Round Table. (Please don't make fun of me!) I would just like to say something about statistical analysis in football.

Football lies in the 'living' domain of observable phenomena. It's 'alive' in the sense that it is dynamic. There's so much going on, there are so many variables. You can predict with Newton's laws how long it will take for something to land on the ground that has been dropped at a particular height. You can't do that with the human body. You can't do that with an economy. You can't do that with football. It evades the conventional scientific and statistical attempts to model it. Really, if you wanted to have a scientific way of modelling the dynamics of a football match, you wouldn't use probability theory or statistics. (You would use chaos theory!) Yes, we can be astute about which statistics we pay attention to (e.g. clear-cut chances created, through balls, shots on target, tackles+interceptions, possession in the opposition's third etc.), but ultimately, nothing beats the intuitive impression that you get from watching a game. That is, provided that you're a careful observer.

Along that line of thought, the 'intuitive impression' that I got from watching the first ten minutes of the game yesterday, even apart from the brilliant set-piece goals that we scored, was that we were going to destroy this opponent. Why? Because they could hardly keep the ball for more than ten seconds. True, their overall possession stats read higher than ours, even for the first twenty minutes (if I'm not mistaken), but a human being watching the game could see quite clearly that they couldn't sustain possession for long enough to do anything meaningful with it. We were too quick to win the ball back or to force them into errors, and they weren't quick enough in transitioning from regaining possession to getting into scoring positions. We, on the other hand, were lightning quick, thanks to the instinctive genius of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho and Gerrard, but also to the less-obviously-instinctive-but-nonetheless-effective and well-trained efficiency of Henderson, Sterling and everyone else on the pitch. Even Cissokho, who has faced some pretty insensitive though predictable ridicule by our fans in the past months, was better and quicker on the ball than he usually is.

Another insight that you can get from watching the game but not from the common statistics that you usually find in newspaper articles or stats websites, is the relative pace advantage that we had in attack compared with their defence. (No conventional stats that I'm aware of tell you how quick Daniel Sturridge's acceleration was in the game.) As Michael Owen offered repeatedly in his co-commentary of the match on BT Sport, you cannot do anything about pace, and Sturridge and Sterling have this in abundance. Arsenal's relatively high line - which can be seen statistically through 'average position' graphics - didn't exactly help their cause either. I think it's a sign that Wenger, like other managers this season, really underestimated our firepower. It's also a sign, I think, that other managers in this league really aren't as tactically flexible as you need to be - as in fact Rodgers has demonstrated himself to be. (Mourinho is the only obvious Premier League example that I can think of who compares to Rodgers in this respect, although one of the experts will surely correct me on this.)

I think it's fair to say that it is the 'intuitive impression' which really makes it worth being a football fan, or any sports fan. Excitement doesn't usually come from statistical or other observations. It is that familiar gut instinct-through-experience which gives you the vicarious pleasure or pain of fandom. The intuitive impression that I got yesterday throughout the match is that Arsenal did not even come to close challenging us. It was as if we were playing against a mid- or lower-table side. Even after 4-0, we were the better side for seventy minutes. Generic statistics would tell you otherwise. Intelligent statistical analyses might paint a more accurate picture, and are certainly worth looking at, and I understand that the engineers and statisticians amongst us enjoy the definitiveness that only numerical information can - whenever there is actually good method of interpreting what it means. As a mathematician by training I also like to look at well-developed statistics-based arguments. But first and foremost, I try to observe the games. I've no doubt that the veterans - the professionals - like PoP and so forth, would only agree with me. Maybe everyone will. Stats are great when they are done properly - which is rare in journalism and media - but they must always be reconnected and reevaluated with respect to what could be seen on the pitch. In any domain of life, experience is so important. It gives you the accurate and dependable 'gut-instinct' that is exactly the result of years and years of organic data collection, like an 'evolution of ideas' as you observe something, form a theory, have the opinion questioned by a later observation, forcing you to refine your theory, and so on.

A note on Rodgers: I have a hunch that this match will be remembered in years to come as the moment that Brendan Rodgers 'arrived'. He was up against a veteran of Premier League and European football - in fact the most experienced manager in this league. Both managers are dealing with injury problems, although Wenger has the superior squad depth. Both managers have been receiving praise in the media this season and their teams performing well, but Wenger's has been top of the table for the majority of the season. Both managers have been cultivating their own fairly precise ideas about football into their teams, although Wenger has been building his side for several years, whereas Rodgers has only had about eighteen months. Given these facts, Rodgers's team had no right to demolish Wenger's so comprehensively. The fact that he did is a testament to the fact that he is a very high operator. If there was any doubt remaining as to Rodgers's potential as a manager or of the potential of the team that he is building here, it's now gone. The sky is the limit.
« Last Edit: February 9, 2014, 10:33:07 pm by rscanderlech »

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #44 on: February 9, 2014, 10:08:37 pm »
Not sure if this allowed on the round table thread...
But if so a new feature from me, for every game i will watch the full game 3 or 4 times again and compose player ratings.

Mignolet, flapped a few times but that free kick save was very good, he saw it very late, i dont think reina would have saved it,and mignolet during the aston villa game would never have saved it, just proves hes an improvement 7

Flanagan, okay hes never spectacular and not naturally gifted but hes steady and a decent back up, nearly scored too 7

Skrtel his 2nd goal was brilliant, much improved from the skrtel of old, i think this game confirms that on his day he is world class 9

Toure, thought he looked shaky to be honest, hes 4th choice centre back in my eyes 6.5

Cissokho, quite decent defensively, again nothing spectacular but he is growing in confidence and getting better 7

Gerrard, brilliant set pieces today, needless tackle for the penalty though 8

Coutinho, hopefully this isn't a one off and he really is coming back into form, great vision, great balance, great footwork and that pass for sturridge goal was amazing, MOTM 9.5

Sterling, could have a got a hattrick, brilliant young talent,

Sturridge, thought he was quiet to be honest still got a goal though 7

Suarez hasn't scored for a while a now, very unlucky today too 8

Subs
Allen, passed tidily 7.5

Ibe, showed glimpses 7

Aspas, unfair to comment.

Hold on just notice i missed out henderson, well real box to box peformance 8

Do hope that is allowed?

What do you think to my ratings?

Ratings are a tricky thing and I rarely agree with them in newspapers or the like when I see them. For example, both Allen and Ibe were rated as equal or above Mignolet, Flanaghan, Touré, Cissokho & Sturridge. Personally I thought Sturridge was phenomenal at holding the ball up and don't think he lost it once. Flanno & Cissokho didn´t get beat once and both got forward well, each having at least 1 chance to score. I just don't see what Allen or Ibe contributed to justify them being on a par or better than all the above.

I would much rather use the ratings of somewhere like whoscored.com if you like that sort of thing as every single action a player makes is attributed value. It's not ideal but it's the most unbiased, balanced way of doing so.
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Offline BabuYagu

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #45 on: February 9, 2014, 10:18:35 pm »
Something else I wanted to point out is that Coutinho's defensive stats the last few games look like Lucas. He made 6 tackles and 2 interceptions yesterday. 4 tackles against WBA and 5 against Everton. Lucas averages aout 4.5 tackles and 2.5 interceptions per game in his career.

Not suggesting Coutinho is the backup to Lucas at DM of course :D ... just think it is interesting how important he has been to our defensive game in his new role. It has been suggested that he is playing an "Iniesta role" for us at the moment but Iniesta has never come close to those sorts of figures. He really is working his ass of for the side at the moment. If it continues we have a frighteningly good player on our hands.
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #46 on: February 9, 2014, 10:20:53 pm »
For all those saying "Not sure if this is allowed in the Round Table..." Well of course it is. We welcome any and all posts in here so long as they're not one line kneejerking bollocks.
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #47 on: February 9, 2014, 10:42:38 pm »
Hi, everyone. This is my first 'serious' post on the Round Table.

And a good one.

Offline DanA

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #48 on: February 9, 2014, 11:08:22 pm »
The way Rodgers has continually reinvented the side this season is truly remarkable. We started off dour, organised at the back, pinching results. We've at times become a possession team, passing the opposition to death. We had a stage as a team that sat back and hit ruthlessly on the counter and now he's made us a Rafa style crushing machine. Largely this has been in response to injuries, and setup according to who's available. But consistently he's been able to get the players understanding their role and executing on the pitch. A truly special manager, and I suspect one of if not the best coaches in the world. And this game against Arsenal....Rodgers deserves the highest of praise.

This game really was the perfect execution of a few things Rodgers has been working on. Gerrard as a holding midfielder, penalty aside, was sensational and for me evidence of Rodgers tactical nous and coaching ability. There's been concerns about Gerrard's "legs",  his defensive discipline, and ability when tightly marked. We all know of his talents but Rodgers has found a way to get it all to work. I think Rodgers has sketched out a blue print for Gerrard to continue to be a world class player into the twilight of his career. The Weimann pressing issue I think is gone with Gerrard sitting 5-10 yards deeper, the lack of running capacity seemingly covered by two extremely active midfielders in front of him and Gerrard is fast learning to position himself. Seven tackles, two interception but more importantly he defensively was always in the right place. The rash tackle suggest he's got a ways to go on decision making but i've got no doubt that will be worked on and solved pretty quickly.

On Coutinho: Quite rightly we marvel at the extrordinary pass to Sturridge or the wonderful dribble around Wilshere. The skill shown was amazing, few in the world could replicate. But he's had that since the day he arrived. What's impressed me in this game (and Everton) was how Rodgers has turned such a raw talent into a hardworking disciplined midfielder. Coutinho (and Henderson) got into Wilshere face, had Arteta rattled missing his targets and Ozil was diabolical. Gattuso would have been proud of the job done. The way Coutinho made position and then stepped up to win the ball back in the lead up to Sturridge's goal, it's a new and exciting addition to his game. He always had a good defensive mindset, it looks like Rodgers has honed it into a weapon and with it created something special.

There's plenty to talk about. Sterling, Flanno, Cissokho, Toure, Skrtel and Coutinho all probably had the game of their Liverpool careers to date. The remarkable continuation of our set pieces record, Suarez continuing to do the business even if he doesn't get the goal and the cohesion in our pressing. So much of it really is a testament to Rodgers as a manager.
« Last Edit: February 9, 2014, 11:18:22 pm by DanA »
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Offline classycarra

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #49 on: February 9, 2014, 11:56:18 pm »
as for flannagan when did he learn how to pass ?

those two first time passes, as the first onto the corner-clearance, were lovely technique. it reminded me of his early games for us, including his short spell as a substitute playing the deepest midfielder in his first season (against arsenal?). he definitely has good passing technique in his locker. i like that he is playing the right passes for now, and only the riskier/tougher technique passes at the correct time.

who remembers this match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whCItdnVS20
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 12:03:30 am by CLASSYCARRA »

Offline TheDarkKnight

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2014, 12:34:34 am »
First off, what a fabulous game to witness. That first twenty minutes will live long in the memory. We were breathtaking, Arsenal simply couldn't live with us.

That takes me on to my first point. Our mentality in the home games this season has been refreshing. We kept racing in to two and three goal leads at Anfield against the bottom half teams, but doubt lingered over whether our setup was well enough equipped to do it against the better sides. Alas, our last two home matches have been pretty emphatic in proving we can blow most teams away at Anfield. The Aston Villa game was a reality check as much as it was an anomaly; as annoying and frustrating it was to drop points in such a winnable fixture, ultimately it may be the case that that game benefited us in the long term because it encouraged Rodgers to modify his system and it's safe to say that it has worked a treat. I commend the boss for his braveness, it would have been easy to put Allen in for Coutinho/Sterling today to guarantee extra defensive solidity in midfield (noone could have blamed him seeing as we were facing the league leaders) but he stuck with his Brazilian boy and it paid dividends. He - in that 'Iniesta role' of playing deep enough to be called a central midfielder but with plenty of freedom to roam - was a magician. His passing and dribbling was on song, but it was his discipline and defensive work that most pleasantly surprised me.

I could bang on and on all night about the rest of the players' performances, every single one of whom put in a shift to be proud of but I will give extra praise to the two lads who scored a brace each; Skrtel and Sterling. The former has been derided at times this season but generally has always shown up in the big games at Anfield, and he did so again today putting in a defensive display of the highest class with the added bonus of scoring two goals, the second of which was as good a header as you are likely to see in the remaining months of this campaign. As for Sterling, he is already looking every bit a top footballer at the age of 19. Since his good performance against Norwich in early December he has continued to build on it and is growing every game. He was among our top players at Tottenham, at Man City and again in the two recent big homes against Everton and Arsenal. Scored two very good goals as a result, partly, of his great movement off the ball and finally struck a goal in the league without a Suarez assist! "My post has been amended by autocorrect. Please report me to the site admins for being ignorant".; there is a new SAS in town.

I was quite pessimistic going in to this game despite the Everton humbling but am now relishing every single remaining game at Anfield. We are simply a different animal at home. Swansea in 2011/12 under BR were really impressive at the Liberty Stadium, it was somewhat of a fortress for them, losing just three matches there all season and beating the likes of us and Arsenal; we are the final product at home that he wouldn't quite have been able to manage with Swansea's resources and players in comparison to ours. Now it is about finding that balance right away from home; if we do then a top four place is ours, because the only remaining home games I see us even having a chance of dropping points in are those against Chelsea and Man City, and you can bet your bottom dollar neither of them will be looking forward to the visit.

One last thing, a question for those such as PhaseOfPlay who have been heavily involved with coaching at one point or other - do you think the reason for our somewhat slow, less-pressing-based play at the likes of West Brom and Stoke lately is to reserve energy for the big games like the Everton and Arsenal ones we've just had and can we expect a similarly reserved approach in upcoming games at the likes of Fulham before going all out against, say, Tottenham at Anfield?

About to crack open a final beer of the weekend. Thanks to the Reds for helping to make it such a good one :)

Offline rscanderlech

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2014, 12:37:47 am »

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2014, 01:14:53 am »
Something else I wanted to point out is that Coutinho's defensive stats the last few games look like Lucas. He made 6 tackles and 2 interceptions yesterday. 4 tackles against WBA and 5 against Everton. Lucas averages aout 4.5 tackles and 2.5 interceptions per game in his career.

 I for one loved seeing him making tackles, especially on Wilshere who is widely viewed as a bit of a 'hard man' whereas Coutinho is often described as a 'luxury player'. His form has worried me at times this season, particularly after the Villa game where he was missing for large chunks of the match but after his performances against Everton and now Arsenal, I believe that may well have been down to him being on the wing rather than in the centre where he can play like a 'proper' number ten.

 I've seen a few people mentioning Coutinho in the same breath as Iniesta recently. It would be a gross exaggeration to claim he is at that level right now but I think we've seen enough of him to believe that he could eventually get there. When Guardiola first took over at Barcelona and got them playing the best football most of us will ever witness, Xavi was lauded as the key man. Whilst not downplaying the importance of Xavi, I always said the key man in midfield was Iniesta because of the way he'd open up so much space for other players and on many occasions play the crucial ball - 'assist the assist' so to speak. If I'm not mistaken, Iniesta was roughly 24/25 years old at that point. To think our Phil is only 21 gives me plenty of reason to believe he could well be emulating that sort of form in two/three years time.
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Offline AirConGipsyRed

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2014, 01:14:55 am »
Also, if you get to a stage where your ball control leads to quick through ball opportunities, your possession % will inevitably go down (and vice versa).

That's a really good point which I hadn't thought about.
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Offline Midekima

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2014, 01:39:21 am »
Great result but we need to nail the away games.

So far 4W, 4D, 4L

Losses to Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea and Hull.
Draws to WBA, Swansea, Newcastle and Everton
Wins against Sunderland, Villa, Tottenham and Stoke.

Remaining away games

Fulham
Southampton
Man United
Cardiff
West Ham
Norwich
Crystal Palace

I think we need 14 points from that lot..... 3 out 4 last home games are really tough.

Offline AirConGipsyRed

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2014, 01:42:51 am »
The problem with stats come when people lack the wit to interpret them.  What does that show?  It shows that Arsenal were chasing the game for 89 minutes of the 90.  It shows that LFC were happy to contain and counter for 80 minutes of the 90.

Come back with the stats for the first 20 minutes that decided the game and we'll take a look.

An equally excellent post.

Lots of people have said we could have scored 7,8 maybe more, but in reality, once we had scored four both Arsenal and us played the game differently. If we had scored four in fifteen minutes the attitudes of both sides would ave changed then.

Anyway, I love reading the round table discussions so I thank you all, I just wish I was able to contribute more.
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Offline DanA

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2014, 03:35:02 am »
Great result but we need to nail the away games.

So far 4W, 4D, 4L

Losses to Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea and Hull.
Draws to WBA, Swansea, Newcastle and Everton
Wins against Sunderland, Villa, Tottenham and Stoke.

Remaining away games

Fulham
Southampton
Man United
Cardiff
West Ham
Norwich
Crystal Palace

I think we need 14 points from that lot..... 3 out 4 last home games are really tough.

I think it's more to do with the games we've played. We played Newcastle away when they were very good, they've fallen apart now. Chelsea, Arsenal and Man City are the toughest fixtures on the calendar. Really only Hull was genuinely disappointing result.

I'd expect our record to finish somewhere around 9W 5D 5L which is about 1.7 ppg. Quite respectable for away form.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 03:38:32 am by DanA »
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Offline woof

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2014, 03:47:04 am »
What a match! Going into the match, I was afraid that either side may be too tactical, i.e. give each other too much respect and end up a dour match. Long gone are those days.

It's great to see how BR and the team have adapted. Last season, we bossed possession but in many games, it didn't amount to a vital 3 points. There we games which we lost even though we "played well". At the start of this season, we didn't play an attractive brand of football as we ground out results, thanks to Daniel Sturridge. However, we did show a new side of the team: we had steel in our game.

In December, it was all about Suarez. In a few games, he won it for us with sheer brilliance. It was just out of the world and phenomenal.

Against Everton and then Arsenal, we displayed another side.... we played counter attack and our attack was impressive as it is precise. Coutinho increased his work rate and became a second Hendo, nipping at the heels of the opponent's midfield and not allowing them to settle. This, however, didn't mean the little Brazilian main forte was compromise. Oh no. In fact, he's now playing at the best we've ever seen him in a red shirt. With Hendo, Coutinho and our front attackers hunted like a pack of wolves. When we lost possession, we got it back almost immediately and when we did, we broke like lightning. It was stupendous. We cut through Arsenal before they knew what was happening.

BR has to be recognised for the quantum improvements in the team. Even if we're not title challengers this season, I won't put it past us to challenge for 2nd or 3rd. Of course, we need to keep it real and make sure we don't turn up like how we did against Villa and WBA. Or more correctly put, we didn't turn up. We need to back up wins like that with wins against the lesser teams

Offline Miltonred

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2014, 04:53:13 am »
I hope we learn from the WBA debacle and  are as up for the Fulham game as we were for this one.

These wonderful stand out performances and eye popping results mean more in a successful season than in another heartbreaking failure.

Apply ourselves in the same fashion away from home and we can put a run together that might just put pressure on Chelsea and City. Or?

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2014, 06:23:00 am »
Just wanted to briefly say that the two games of the week made all the other prem games I saw highlights of look very pedestrian indeed.
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Offline outlaw_nas

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2014, 07:16:52 am »
Did everyone see hendo organising a corner,lining up and telling flano where to go. He's defo come out of his shell.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2014, 07:32:33 am »
What a game. What a game. What a game.

It's an amazing result!



Plus I get to gloat to myself because I got one over on that moron Arsenal fan I met at a party the night before.  ;D

Offline houkura

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2014, 07:40:19 am »
After the "Demolition Derby" as it's been called. 4-0 against Everton....Hansen said something on Match of the Day that really struck a chord with me. He said "Every time Everton attacked it looked like Liverpool were going to score." That must be the best thing you can hear after setting up to counter-attack no?

And before that match you could read and hear the pundits question Brendan Rodger's abilities against the top teams. He had won them over on his ability to set the team up to play against the lesser sides-we've been called "flat track bullies" more than once the last 12 months but could he square up to the big boys? Martinez has gotten his team playing possesion based football in a short frame of time it's said but is there tactical flexibility? Wenger is the veteran of the beautiful game in England-the wily old fox whose teams have always entertained but has he shown to be a bit one dimensional this past Saturday? I noticed that around the 80th minute Brendan was on the touchline shouting instructions to his young pupils but every time the cameras panned to the Arsenal bench there was a forlorn Arsene Wenger just sitting silently, rocking in his chair in an attempt to warm up or playing with his forever malfunctioning zipper. I'm starting the think that Brendan has something a little bit special-a little extra. His tactical acumen coupled with his ability to educate and motivate players is astounding.

I have been a big fan of Brendan's from the beginning but I've always doubted whether we could actually challenge for the title against the extreme backing of the Qataris or the Russians but the last few weeks have given me hope that we really could do so given time. Very doubtful it will be this campaign-anything is possible of course. I'm just content that we're on the right track and after a couple of painful years in the wilderness we are back on track and have a manager and players that make me believe that anything is possible.
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2014, 08:03:12 am »
I'm gonna throw in the points I made in the post match thread which I've expanded a touch.

A few days later and I stand even more firmly behind what I posted

Purely in terms of the quality of the football currently being offered up by this side when it peaks - if not week to week measured consistency - this is arguably the finest I've ever witnessed from a Liverpool side. Clearly the genius of Suarez accounts for a disproportionate element of this but there is so much more besides.

But starting with him, if you simply take those two unbelievable shots from Saturday's game, then I can honestly say there's never been anything to match those strikes in all the time I've been going to Anfield. The venom of that smash against the post has never been equalled. Not by Liddell, Hunt, Dalglish, Fowler or whoever you care to name Chopper. And using another criterion nor has any predecessor ever matched the unfeasible pinpoint accuracy of that disguised second half free kick.

And to reinforce the argument a tad further, in all the time from Shanks onwards never has there been any clutch of goals to match the quality of Luis's quartet against Norwich. Not even remotely close. Nothing on the same planet

Then, just taking Saturday's game there's the two unbelievable slide-rule passes from Coutinho both of which actually equalled the quality of Kenny's finest ever pass to Rushie.

Then there's the predatory manner in which Sturridge continues to despatch his opportunities. Rushie was the best we ever had but never did even Rushie look more deadly than Sturridge when he ran onto that slice of heaven from Coutinho to arrow it past Szczesny.

And let's not forget the marvellous young Sterling who has just put together the finest ever clutch of back to back wing play performances by a Reds winger. Not Cally, Thommo, Heighway or Barnesey ever displayed such consistent top form over so many games. His peak performances may not yet be at their level but none of them ever put together ten games where in each game they were a contender for man of the match.

Then theres....   

Wherever you look the sort of stuff we're seeing - both individually and collectively - when this team clicks into gear is unprecedented. We are all privileged beyond words.

And boy have we got ourselves a manager for the long run. Truly a great time to be a Red.

 :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 08:05:27 am by Timbo's Goals »

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2014, 08:18:34 am »
In case anybody's not seen it Chris Bascombe has penned the article of his life following Saturday's game. Terrific stuff.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rodgers-struggling-to-talk-rampant-reds-out-of-title-race-29994188.html

Offline RayPhilAlan

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2014, 08:30:37 am »
Remember Mike Tyson? In his prime, I mean, when he was the newly crowned - or belted - heavyweight champion of the world. And remember those first few unfortunate challengers who dared to enter the ring with him - Michael Spinks, Carl Williams, Tony Tubbs. None of that warm-up feeling-out-the-opponent for Iron Mike in the opening round. He came out of his corner swinging, and before the bell tolled for the end of the round, there was a crumpled body lying at his feet.

That's the way we've been playing the last two home games. Everton 3-0 down after 35, Arsenal 4-0 down after 20. The difference between Michael Spinks and the Arsenal players is that the crumpled bodies of the latter had to keep going for another 70 minutes afterwards.

And remember what Brendan Rodgers said about making the visit to Anfield the longest 90 minutes of a team's life? That's how you do it, by making them want the game to be over when there's more than three quarters still to go.

Offline Mingle

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2014, 08:36:15 am »
Spurs at WHL, Stoke at the Britannia, Arsenal at home. 3 fixtures in recent history that have given us tons of trouble that we've exorcised emphatically this season. Sign that the times are well and truly changing.

scoring 5 in each game too...
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Offline Ray K

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2014, 09:25:51 am »
Corkboy has very eloquently eulogised about the beautiful through ball from Coutinho for Sturridge's goal.  It is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.

Just as beautiful was the through ball for Henderson's chance below



But, looking back at this - and I must have watched it two dozen times yesterday - it's something else that caught my eye.

It's the Vision Thing, to quote George Bush senior.

Most of us, in whatever bad standard of football we played, can see when a team who presses high can be caught out with a long through ball. And while most of us resorted to whacking it upfield roughly in the direction of our speedy team mate, the pros can judge it so much better. The great ones, like Philippe, with plenty of time and space, can judge the weight to perfection, taking out the defence and setting up your team mate.

But how do you find the time and space in the first place?  It's here that you can tell a great footballer from an exceptional one. 
Coutinho is under pressure, around 10 yards outside his own penalty area. He's got an Arsenal player alongside him harrying him, and he's facing Jack Wilshere (at least I think it's Wilshere) in front of him. Wilshere's in a marky mood, so there's a good chance that he might just clatter into Philippe.
It's at this moment - ten yards outside his own box - that Coutinho thinks to himself 'If I can get past Wilshere, there's a ton of space behind him'.
Now, where you or I might have tried to kick it past him to the outside of Wilshere and tried to run around him, this is where Philippe's vision kicks in. 'I'll flick the ball inside him using my instep, change my direction, accelerate past him and take him out of the game. Then I'll have loads of space and time as Arteta won't be able to cover that ground either'. 
And he decides this and executes it in approximately 0.50 seconds. The ball is never more than a yard away from his foot. This is a man in a maelstrom yet in total control of time and space. Like Dr. Flipping Who.

The Vision Thing. This is what Brendan Rodgers Football is all about.
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Offline gunnerstu

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2014, 09:55:12 am »
Tail is still between my legs....

20 minutes of Sunday league football against Premier League - then 70 minutes of smoking a cigar with one hand while holding the head of the small kid with the other.

That is a massive transformation by Brendan Rodgers - only thing stopping you going on to win things in the next couple of years is losing him.

Well played.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2014, 10:02:51 am »
....the 70 minutes of smoking a cigar with one hand while holding the head of the small kid with the other.


Ha ha

Nice sentiments - much appreciated.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #70 on: February 10, 2014, 10:05:57 am »
Corkboy has very eloquently eulogised about the beautiful through ball from Coutinho for Sturridge's goal.  It is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.



  Hendo fucked up, he should have finished it off with a Nelinho job. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbOA6nqixSU
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Offline Robbo1980

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #71 on: February 10, 2014, 10:09:16 am »
Had to watch game again just to appreciate how good that opening was, it all went so fast 1st time around, all i remember thinking is "what the fuck is happening?"......2nd time round tho i can appreciate we were fucking awesome, we exploited Arsenal the same we exploited Everton.

To a man we were excellent, Mignolet iffy early moments aside when he flapped a cross into the feet of Flanno??....

Flanno has matured into a aggressive simple user of the ball who is growing game by game....in my opinion this reflects very well on Rogers, anyone remember the Liverpool on tour prog on CH5?? remember Rodgers 1st words to Flanno, something along the lines of not trying to be something he isnt, just to concentrate on simple things (not in them words but that was the message)....well he has grasped it...

The rest of the defence was solid, Kolo still looks decidedly nervy with the ball but defensively he was solid, Skrtel reaffirming my belief he is our best CB and is much much better on the ball than he gets credit for....

Rest of the team has been obviously discussed above with nothing new to add but for Gerrard (have critisized him), for 1 half v WBA and for the full 90 on Sat he had grasped it, he has taken on Rodgers message,he was disciplined, his game reading was superb, his tackling & timing was lucas esq and we all know what Stevie can do with the ball....but he kept it simple when needed and launched it when needed, gave Kolo a bollocking when needed as well...forget the pen, he will learn from that even at 33.....

Finally massive credit to Brendan, not only for turning us round so quickly, not only the style of football we now play thats devastating but for turning our awful set peices around, weve gone from basically it not worth while us having free kicks or corners for over 10 yrs to now being the best in the league...despite adding mostly small arses to our team...amazing........think Gary monk had suggested Rodgers did work on set pieces in training...it shows....well done BR
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 10:11:39 am by Robbo1980 »

Offline GG8

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #72 on: February 10, 2014, 10:11:22 am »
Congrats.

Schooled, embarressed and made to look like a very ordinarly side. Not much more else I can say.

Been a long weekend trying to digest the result, and as concerned as I was about the fixture I never expected a scoreline or performance like that.

Well done.

Offline redmark

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #73 on: February 10, 2014, 10:11:48 am »
I swear, I haven’t seen the likes of this since 1988. This team is downright scary in its potential, and if you didn't believe it before, believe it now. Believe it now.

Lovely post, by the way.

On this point: does Rafa's spring 2009 side figure in that discussion? There may have been moments under Evans too, in terms of attacking fluidity.

The demolitions of United and Madrid in Rafa's best spell have to rank alongside Saturday, in their ruthless, swaggering, brutal destruction of 'top class' opposition. Yet that side was the culmination of five years, not 18 months, of Rafa's ideas. His side featured a number of players at their absolute peak; some never to equal that run.

Seven of Saturday's lineup are 25 or under (yet only Arsenal and United traditionally get pundits waxing lyrical about their youthful approach). Sakho replacing Toure would bring the average age down to 24 (Allen or Lucas in for Gerrard would bring it to 23). We have the most exciting crop of youngsters coming up behind the first team squad we've had for decades.

I remember the commentator on Saturday mentioning the Bayern Munich delegation there to watch Arsenal, their CL opponents. Their dominant feeling after that first half hour was without doubt "glad we're not facing Liverpool". But they will. Saturday sent a message far and wide.

Telegraph: "... for 20 astonishing first-half minutes Liverpool produced the most exhilarating football seen in the Premier League this season. Or any season."
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Offline NeilR

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2014, 10:13:28 am »
Due to what happened at the Emirates and how their midfield played around us at will there earlier this season, I expected Allen to come in instead of Sterling or Coutinho. When I saw the team sheet I thought "Brendan is a brave man. Fair play to him but its risky. We'll either get torn to shreds or it'll be a masterstroke". How wrong was I to be nervous. Rogers got it 100% spot on and I have to say how Gerrard and Coutinho have adjusted to their new roles in only a few weeks has been brilliant.

I think you can all agree the opening 20 minutes were mouth dropping, but that ignores how good we were even after that, were in complete control, and looked like scoring many more still. Can't say I remember Arsenal offering so little in front of goal for a long long time. Even when city beat them, they still scored 3 (if I remember) and had further opportunities.

Offline lfcderek

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2014, 10:22:45 am »
Probably not the thread for it, but I feel the need to put down some musings that came in flashes on Saturday.

It's about a player that didn't score against Arsenal. I am old enough to have seen all the George Best games at Anfield (and one match at Old Trafford). He was the finest player I have ever seen in the flesh. I can't explain what genius is – but you can recognise it when you see it. Didn't see much of Pele at all really (didn't go to Goodison in 66). Saw enough of Maradona on the TV to recognise it and have been delighted, the last few years, to have it demonstrated, week in and week out, by Messi.

Well, we're all fucking privileged to see it every week.

And I do mean every week. Anyone old enough will remember players like Stanley Bowles and Rodney Marsh who, from time to time, would put a huge smile on any fan's face – not just QPR and City ones.  And now it is the turn of Liverpool fans to have their jaw drop and say to themselves “That didn't happen” - “He couldn't have done that”.

I think the thing that I'm trying to say is – don't, in any way, let this pass you by. The Shankly era was one of pure emotion – and being emotion you did soak it up, you couldn't help it. The Paisley era though brought success. Massive, overwhelming success and I, for one, bitterly regret becoming blasé about it. Somehow thinking that this type of thing was ours by right. 

There are many on here who can, far more eloquently than me, explain the type of football team and tactical approach  being built by Brendan. And boy, oh boy, it's a delight to watch.

But for God's sake don't, in any way, let this man pass you by.

We are unlikely to see it again in our lifetimes.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2014, 10:31:51 am »
Congrats.

Schooled, embarressed and made to look like a very ordinarly side. Not much more else I can say.

Been a long weekend trying to digest the result, and as concerned as I was about the fixture I never expected a scoreline or performance like that.

Well done.

Fair play.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2014, 11:04:08 am »
He was the finest player I have ever seen in the flesh.

Me too. It seems like only the likes of ourselves around at the time truly 'get' just how amazing Bestie actually was. I get the impression many from later generations seem to think a lot of it is enchantment generated by time passing. We know it wasn't. If anything we probably understate his greatness. A player who could do absolutely everything better than anybody else. Week in week out.

But you're absolutely bang on regarding Luis. Like Bestie the man deserves the mantle of 'genius'. Not even Bestie could execute some of the things we Luis pulling off game after game. Sure he cannot dribble or tackle or run as swiftly as bestie at his finest - though he's not that far off - but then again Bestie could never have scored some of the goals we're regularly treated to by Luis.

As you say - we all need to take deep stock of what is happening right now in front of our eyes. It's very special. And as I said in my own earlier post it's not simply all about Luis either.

Happy days indeed. 

 :)

 

Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2014, 11:13:00 am »


One last thing, a question for those such as PhaseOfPlay who have been heavily involved with coaching at one point or other - do you think the reason for our somewhat slow, less-pressing-based play at the likes of West Brom and Stoke lately is to reserve energy for the big games like the Everton and Arsenal ones we've just had and can we expect a similarly reserved approach in upcoming games at the likes of Fulham before going all out against, say, Tottenham at Anfield?


You cannot play with this intensity two games a week. Stoke was the first game of Gerrard in the holding role, the pitch and weather has an impact on this as well. Overall there are still a lot of factors influencing this sort of performance, especially the opponent, which in this case with Arsenal gave us way too much space and didn't show up at all.

We didn't really play substantially different like compared to City away f.e. But City showed up, Arsenal didn't, the performance of some of their players, Ozil, f.e. was not on the level required for professional football. They were not arsed to do the basics and that's what you get as they made every possible mistake against us, especially underestimating us big time, similar to Everton.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 11:15:20 am by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline wah00ey

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2014, 11:17:07 am »
We were very, very good, across the board.  Can anyone seriously single out any player for criticism because I think that would be incredibly harsh.  Hendo stood out for me, look at the pace involved in his run for that chance in the gif above.  He was up against Gibbs I think who is no slouch himself. 

Suarez - if that volley goes in then it's possibly the best goal of it's type that I've ever seen, end of story.  Flanagan is looking solid as well, he made his debut against Arsenal as a sub and I remember vividly Kenny putting his arm around him and making him laugh before he came on, one of the best pieces of man management you'll ever see.

We simply made Arsenal look very ordinary but I can't help but worry for us against Fulham as the way they'll play won't suit us as much as it did on Saturday.  It will take a different type of perfoemance to win that one.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 11:19:21 am by wah00ey »
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