Author Topic: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC  (Read 40593 times)

Offline Halcyon Lissome

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #120 on: February 10, 2014, 05:14:45 pm »
I didn't know that it's always a 442.

RF in a 433 or RAM in a 4231 is not the same as RM in a 442, obviously.

I am sorry, I fail to see any logic in that team and formation.

It's not like for like, which is what you're failing to see. They put the best XI in an understandable formation. Anywho, none of this was what I was hoping for a talking point. It's the fact that we've got 5 players in it. Suarez with his rating is making that team no matter what.
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Offline WorldChampions

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #121 on: February 10, 2014, 05:16:09 pm »
I think part of the reason Coutinho operated so deeply was that they tried to stick a man on Gerrard where possible. When that happened Coutinho just came deep and took the ball from Mig or the defender in possession which posed another problem for them.

If two of their midfield push up to stop Gerrard AND Coutinho recieving it and dictating the play we just shifted it round the outside of them using our full backs and Sterling. 

Offline viteslesrouges

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #122 on: February 10, 2014, 05:19:32 pm »
I normally don’t like bullies. I’ve been on the receiving end of enough of them in my life to hate their guts with every fibre of my being, but in sport, especially when it’s your team doing the bullying, there are few sights as powerful. Maybe half an hour after the final whistle blew at Anfield today, just a few miles across the Irish Sea, Ireland were winning a lineout in Lansdowne Road, getting a maul of maybe five or six players driving towards the Welsh line and their opponents, who were many people’s favourites to win before the game, simply couldn’t do a fucking thing about it, they were just swept aside as the home side powered to a try on their way to a one-sided 26-3 victory. It was beautiful (unless you were Welsh, of course), and what we saw at Anfield was almost a mirror-image: an utterly mesmeric, gutsy display of organised destruction controlled to the nth degree by a team which chased down its prey time and time again, inflicting one grievous wound after another until they had to simply give in. For ‘Welsh’ read: ‘Cockney’, and to be fair, it was way worse for Arsenal supporters today. At least Wales were still in with a shout at the hour mark over in Dublin…

The most pleasing thing for me? Let me start in my praise where many of us often start in our post-mortems, at the back. Arsenal were top of the league in February (and may be again). With three months left in the season, that makes them a serious fucking team, and yet they rarely (if ever) carved Liverpool apart today. Aside from a couple of rash moments, by Mignolet in the first half and Gerrard in the second, Arsenal had fuck all chances and they created nothing. Nothing. That pleases me as much as anything because it wasn’t like they weren’t knocking on the door at times, yet whether it was Skrtel or Touré, Flanagan or Cissokho, Gerrard or Henderson, we kept nicking the ball away from them at the crucial moment and rarely was a foul given away in a dangerous area, suggesting a nous that we have no right to expect from what is ultimately a makeshift back-four and a midfield anchor learning the role in this system. At no point did they ever panic or get caught out by the League-leaders, a club that has been building and rebuilding in relative serenity for the best part of two decades under one manager and one philosophy that has been in place since 1996. Think about that. Just shy of 18 years vs. 18 months. A team that hasn’t been out of the top-four since 1996 vs. one which hasn’t finished inside it since 2009. No Johnson, Sakho, Agger or Enrique. And yet, 5-1.

As for the team’s goalscoring exploits, well I feel like one of those kids who immediately and inexplicably starts bawling when they meet their hero. I simply don’t know what to do. When I saw Sturridge stick the fourth away today, I almost felt like crying myself, not out of happiness at what was, at the end of the day, just another three points on the way to what will probably still be, at best, fourth place, but just out of not knowing what else to do. Who are these guys? Where the fuck did they come from? A £12m striker deemed not good enough for Chelsea wasn’t supposed to have this many goals in him. A lightweight Brazilian that Inter were happy enough to let go for pennies on the pound wasn’t supposed to be a genius who also found time in his busy schedule to square up to the likes of Wilshere and N’Zonzi and vent his anger at referees like some kind of boss. Jordan Henderson, where’s he come out of? Raheem Sterling? Did you see him destroy two Arsenal players on the way to going this close to a hat-trick? And Luis Suárez? £40,000,001? For that?! For that?! Oh my word, I’ve never seen anything like him in a Liverpool shirt. To me, he’s the very definition of priceless. And Brendan Rodgers...

I swear, I haven’t seen the likes of this since 1988. This team is downright scary in its potential, and if you didn't believe it before, believe it now. Believe it now.

Simply the best thing I've read on RAWK.

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Offline Juan Loco

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #123 on: February 10, 2014, 05:19:59 pm »
I think it's always a 4-4-2. Suarez playing wide-right against Arsenal gives it some logic.

No, no. You're doing it wrong. Slate the formation of the combined team of the week for a website that aggregates statistics.

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Online JackWard33

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #124 on: February 10, 2014, 05:46:13 pm »
I think part of the reason Coutinho operated so deeply was that they tried to stick a man on Gerrard where possible. When that happened Coutinho just came deep and took the ball from Mig or the defender in possession which posed another problem for them.

If two of their midfield push up to stop Gerrard AND Coutinho recieving it and dictating the play we just shifted it round the outside of them using our full backs and Sterling. 

This is what I wanted to write about - the transformation of Coutinho into a Centre mid

I'm sure I wasn't alone in being extremely worried about the set up for the game and being dominated in midfield again (as we were at the Emirates) and was really hoping we'd see Allen start as we really haven't performed this year with a midfield 2 (the obvious exception being the derby but I don't think that fixtures helps you learn too much about your team).
However Coutinho made the difference - his pressing, anticipation, guile and strength on the ball were what allowed us to disrupt Arsenal so much more than if he'd been playing further up the pitch.
I remember seeing him live the first time last year and thinking that we'd found our 'david silva' type - but it looks a lot more like we've found our iniesta / modric type
A player who can disrupt the opposition and press really well but then instantly turn defence into attack by carrying the ball or playing a killer pass
(It also explains why we were willing to over look a midfielder in the window and go for a forward/attacking player first as if you count Coutinho as one of a midfield 3 you suddenly have 5 for 3 places)

Offline Robinred

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #125 on: February 10, 2014, 06:27:35 pm »
Wonderful thread, and as one of life's glass-half-empties, not in any way misplaced in its euphoria.

I, like others, have been left with very little to say or add, because of the quality of what's been written. So I'll just mention two players. Martin Skrtel's improvement has been on a trajectory with Raheem Sterling's - virtually vertical. I'll be honest, I questioned Brendan's continued faith in him and considered him lucky to be a default team fixture due to injury, expediency or whatever. Brendan was right though, at 29 years of age he has blossomed in a way I thought him incapable of. Speaks volumes of our Brendan does it not?

The second player I want to mention is Phillipe Coutinho. L.F.C has never had a player like this young man. He's 21 and it doesn't bear thinking about what he might become. Yorkie was so correct to give us the examples of wee Luis Garcia and Jari Litmanen. Yet both were experienced by comparison, both products of systems, at Ajax and Barca, which didn't have the "British" problem of helter-skelter physicality to compromise their artistic development. This lad is the jewel in the crown, make no mistake.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #126 on: February 10, 2014, 06:30:43 pm »
Loved the Sturridge and Coutinho celebration after the Sturridge goal, made me as happy as anything else Saturday
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 06:32:51 pm by The G in Gerrard »

Offline didi shamone

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #127 on: February 10, 2014, 06:31:16 pm »
Interestingly probably only to the statto's on here...

Arsenal had...

more possession 57.5% v 42.5%
more passes 499 v 372
more crosses 20 v 16
Territorial adv 60.2% v 39.8%

...so were obviously the better team

Apart from the one which matters that is 5-1

Just shows you really what a load of shite stats can be at times


I've noticed another interesting stat. Every time we've scored five goals under Rodgers we've gone on to take the three points. Just one of those eerie inexplicable stats :).

Online John C

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #128 on: February 10, 2014, 06:40:12 pm »
It is amazing how simple football can be sometimes when you marry up speed with skill in the correct places.
and simple descriptions like, press, possess, pass and finish can sum up how we embarrassed, indeed humiliated Arsenal causing Wenger to give up waving his arms in frustration and retreat to his seat while shaking his head in bewilderment.
RAWK Round Table is the best thread on this forum especially after a big win against a big rival.
I always use the post match thread for my little moans or observations but generally as soon as the match is finished I’m waiting 24 hours to pass for the Round Table and TAW from which we read and hear brilliantly considered opinions. This gaff should be proud of itself. I don’t even post in here as much as I use to, I just observe.
To me, the three key changes/developments are:
1. Gerrard increasing comfort in the controller role, both in attack and defensively.
2. Coutinho being willing AND able to do the marking, harrying, pressing required.
3. Sterling being able consistently to use his dribbling and body control abilities to get away from close marking and maintain possession, including defeating attempts by the opposition to 'hunt in packs' and willingness to move from the flank towards the central areas of the pitch, especially the opposition half.
^ ^ I completely agree with this although I’d add a mention to Henderson because he deserves it and Skrtel because he’s due some recognition. But you’re particularly right about Sterling mate, Jason42 & I commented a few weeks ago that he’s got the threat in him, but he rarely carried the action out, now he’s confident about how he can shift the ball around a player.

Its impossible for us to consider that performance as the template for the future, the barometer for our aspirations, but even if we can play to 80% of that on a frequent basis and in appropriate games then we’ve got an amazing future to look forward to.

I got as much satisfaction from seeing the players celebrating together and the delight in Brendan’s face. You just know how proud he is to do well for us and is quick to acknowledge any singing of his name.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #129 on: February 10, 2014, 06:42:40 pm »
Just quickly looked at the Premier League site. Only 3 2 teams have scored more than our 63 after 25 games. State-funded billion-pound vacuum Manchester City in 2010/11, 2011/12 & 2013/14.

We've scored more after 25 games than any Ferguson team since the turn of the millennium. More than Mourinho's record breaking Chelsea team. More than the 'Invincibles' (and their less than invincible European record).

Drogba, Lampard, Robben & Duff didn't score more goals.
Henry, Pires, Bergkamp and Ljungberg didn't score more goals.
Ronaldo, Rooney & Tevez didn't score more goals.
Van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Scholes and Giggs didn't score more goals.


We're not better than any of those teams, that much should be fairly obvious. But fucking hell, our ability to swat teams is massively underrated due to being in the same league as that City team. This is an exceptional attack both in the present and in the making.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:31:29 pm by Juan Loco »
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Offline JovaJova

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #130 on: February 10, 2014, 06:50:56 pm »
Wow, that is an incredible stat Juan and backs up every shred of enthusiasm all of our fans are currently showing towards the team.

Made all the more impressive by Suarez not even being in the side for the first 6 games.

Just imagine where we are going to be in 12 months time !
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #131 on: February 10, 2014, 06:54:21 pm »
Just quickly looked at the Premier League site. Only 3 teams have scored more than our 63 after 25 games. State-funded billion-pound vacuum Manchester City in 2010/11, 2011/12 & 2013/14.

We've scored more after 25 games than any Ferguson team since the turn of the millennium. More than Mourinho's record breaking Chelsea team. More than the 'Invincibles' (and their less than invincible European record).

Drogba, Lampard, Robben & Duff didn't score more goals.
Henry, Pires, Bergkamp and Ljungberg didn't score more goals.
Ronaldo, Rooney & Tevez didn't score more goals.
Van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Scholes and Giggs didn't score more goals.


We're not better than any of those teams, that much should be fairly obvious. But fucking hell, our ability to swat teams is massively underrated due to being in the same league as that City team. This is an exceptional attack both in the present and in the making.

Ye, but Martin Skrtel pulls shirts and Steven Gerrard is getting a bit old an stuff.
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Offline Messiah

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #132 on: February 10, 2014, 07:16:05 pm »
Only 3 teams have scored more than our 63 after 25 games. State-funded billion-pound vacuum Manchester City in 2010/11, 2011/12 & 2013/14.


State-funded billion-pound vacuum Manchester City couldn't even break 60 in 2010/11 in 38 games let alone our 63 in 25.
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Offline Juan Loco

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #133 on: February 10, 2014, 07:30:59 pm »
State-funded billion-pound vacuum Manchester City couldn't even break 60 in 2010/11 in 38 games let alone our 63 in 25.

Yup. You're right. Browser was running slow earlier, think I clicked on 11/12 in succession by mistake. No one had scored more than us after 25 games in 10/11.
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Offline mjgill85

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #134 on: February 10, 2014, 07:38:27 pm »
Thinking back to moments in a game that were so close to a goal will normally bring a grimace to the face and an "if only" muttered under the breath. Some that have stayed with me in recent years are Kuyt vs Atletico Madrid, Fowler's overhead kick on his return, Carragher in his final game from over a swimming pool away, along with others that I can't find clips for (especially Hyypia in the FA Cup Final and a long range McAteer lob that impossibly curled/span into the post).

It's the mark of just how well we played, how emphatic the victory was and how overwhelmingly dominant we were, that the 4 'almosts' actually fill me with a warm glow of contentment rather than the bitter taste of gritted teeth. To score 5 and leave the league leaders knowing that 4 instances of brilliance could have left the game in reach of Liverpool's biggest ever league win was just perfect. They know how bad it could have been. They know.

Luis Suarez is a football genius. The first touch volleyed pass to Sturridge would be the highlight of most players' youtube highlight reel (put to Scandanavian pop or Fort Minor) but with our Luis it's almost an afterthought. The vision and audaciousness to try it, the skill to pull it off, the beauty of it all. Poetry in motion.

Luis Suarez is a football genius. That volley was... pure. He middled it, he timed it, he gave it an almighty shellacking. However you choose your words in the aftermath, you're lost for words in the moment. His body position, the fact that he's turning, the distance from goal; it's impossible to think he could trouble the keeper. That Szczęsny seemed to be trembling as he attempted to save the launched missile says it all. It was as true a strike as I have ever seen and I'm in awe. Poetry in motion.

Luis Suarez is a football genius. Channeling his inner Aurelio and McAllister, the free kick had all the accuracy that his volley had power. Bang in the top corner and it was only the fact that Szczęsny had somehow stayed focused and on his toes that he didn't become a part of the club that Petr Cech and Paul Gerrard now call home. Poetry in motion.

This Coutinho kid is a bit good. He's done the dribbling thing before and he's certainly done the passing thing before. But to see them both done together, and against the league leaders, was eyegasm inducing. Making Gibbs look like he'd forgotten how his knees work was just the icing on the cake. Sadly Henderson couldn't provide the cherry.  Poetry in motion.

To know that we strangled them into submission with an all out blitz of pressing, pace and merciless finishing; and that on top of that left 4 moments of genius in our pockets... I don't think Wenger ever got up from that fall at Lime Street. He just crawled up into the fetal position and wished the footballing gods would put him out of his misery like they did with Villas-Boas.
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Offline WorldChampions

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #135 on: February 10, 2014, 07:42:30 pm »
I think the people running the official site are still on the ale celebrating :D

"It is hoped that recent acquisitions like Grant Holtby from Spurs, who created the opener against David Moyes' team on Sunday, will help the Cottagers secure their Premier League status for next season."

"We're just trying to get the three points. That's what we did today, and we'll just go again against Fulham on Wednesday and then Arsenal on Saturday. "

Offline Red number seven

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #136 on: February 10, 2014, 08:08:24 pm »
Make no mistake. Arsenal were flattered by both the 5 and the 1. They were not in this game at any point.

For me there was one massive, massive difference between the two teams. They gave us plenty of space. We pressed the living bejesus out of them and forced errors and blind panic.

Aggression, front-footedness and work vs sloth and passive docility were the hallmarks of the game, and were the reason for the free kick that led to the first goal.

2 things I want to comment on, simply because I was worried about them before the game:

1. Gerrard had a blinder in the holding role. I was worried when Lucas got a long term injury, and I thought the difference between him and Gerrard was noticeable in the Villa game. Gerrard has, however, made big strides and is demonstrating he probably can play there. He is now coming deeper, asking for more ball around the edge of his own box and working extremely hard to anticipate and close down across the line. I reserve judgement about whether he can play a good, controlled, efficient, patient game until his deep possession is put under proper pressure (for example, away at Southampton) but he looks to be improving there so fair play to him.

2. Coutinho as part of a midfield three worried me because of the little genius' strength and work rate. He was strong and worked hard from the first minute. Awesome performance with and without the ball and my mom.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 08:10:11 pm by Red number seven »
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Offline Mighty_Red

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #137 on: February 10, 2014, 08:50:52 pm »
The return to form of Coutinho is the one thing that can take us to that next level. Oh we have missed those through balls that he put in so effortlessly last season. They are back, and he has been learning from Lucas and videos of Mascherano on how to snap at the heels of opposing CMs.

Despite not scoring, Luis still did a lot for the team in terms of end-product
- 2 key passes - one converted and one delightful flick that should've been
- What would've been one of the greatest goals ever!
- A fantastic free kick that so nearly caught the keeper napping
All that, without looking into how he played for the team. This boy is not just a genius but a hard-worker who will do the job for the team.

It is also a great thing that he was not the leading man in our victory - it will make other teams even more wary of us. Before they were thinking about Luis and how to stop him. Fine, everyone looks at him. But how do you then deal with the pace of Sterling & Sturridge when they are being fed balls by Coutinho?

As for Sterling, think back to the performance away to Hull and I was wondering how long it would take him to start playing well. I was thinking that we needed someone else in the team as he still wasn't quite ready whilst Coutinho was out and Moses looking equally bad. He has proved me wrong since then and its really making a mark. His finishing is still off and he should've passed for both his 2nd goal and the hat-trick miss. I'm sure he will be reminded of that and he will learn and grow from there.

Here's hoping that Skrtel pushes on from here - a good solid performance at the back, and deadly at set pieces.

On the subject of set pieces, how refreshing to see us scoring from so many, and as people have mentioned earlier, Rodgers must be working on them. You just can't underestimate the importance of set pieces and how they save you on the occasions where your either your tactics or the players performances are not quite on song. This is something I (and many others) banged on about during the Rafa days and were the reason for so many of those frustrating draws. Think back to the home game against Hull, we were dominating without really creating enough chances, but then Agger scores from the corner and we go on to comfortably win. Same with the Fulham game.
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Offline Wullie160975

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #138 on: February 10, 2014, 09:04:49 pm »
Corkboy has very eloquently eulogised about the beautiful through ball from Coutinho for Sturridge's goal.  It is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.

Just as beautiful was the through ball for Henderson's chance below



But, looking back at this - and I must have watched it two dozen times yesterday - it's something else that caught my eye.

It's the Vision Thing, to quote George Bush senior.

Most of us, in whatever bad standard of football we played, can see when a team who presses high can be caught out with a long through ball. And while most of us resorted to whacking it upfield roughly in the direction of our speedy team mate, the pros can judge it so much better. The great ones, like Philippe, with plenty of time and space, can judge the weight to perfection, taking out the defence and setting up your team mate.

But how do you find the time and space in the first place?  It's here that you can tell a great footballer from an exceptional one. 
Coutinho is under pressure, around 10 yards outside his own penalty area. He's got an Arsenal player alongside him harrying him, and he's facing Jack Wilshere (at least I think it's Wilshere) in front of him. Wilshere's in a marky mood, so there's a good chance that he might just clatter into Philippe.
It's at this moment - ten yards outside his own box - that Coutinho thinks to himself 'If I can get past Wilshere, there's a ton of space behind him'.
Now, where you or I might have tried to kick it past him to the outside of Wilshere and tried to run around him, this is where Philippe's vision kicks in. 'I'll flick the ball inside him using my instep, change my direction, accelerate past him and take him out of the game. Then I'll have loads of space and time as Arteta won't be able to cover that ground either'. 
And he decides this and executes it in approximately 0.50 seconds. The ball is never more than a yard away from his foot. This is a man in a maelstrom yet in total control of time and space. Like Dr. Flipping Who.

The Vision Thing. This is what Brendan Rodgers Football is all about.

While I was reading that, my eyes got drawn to Henderson at the beginning. Pretty much in line with Coutinho and after his first touch (between the 2 players), Henderson is off. Not waiting to see how Coutinho get's out of it, just knowing that he will.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #139 on: February 10, 2014, 09:12:01 pm »
While I was reading that, my eyes got drawn to Henderson at the beginning. Pretty much in line with Coutinho and after his first touch (between the 2 players), Henderson is off. Not waiting to see how Coutinho get's out of it, just knowing that he will.

He only puts on the burners when Phil gets out of trouble. Mind you, he ate up Monreal after that.

Edit: Gibbs? Thought he was supposed to be lightning?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 09:15:12 pm by Corkboy »

Offline Wullie160975

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #140 on: February 10, 2014, 09:12:38 pm »
1) I mentioned this in the post match thread. Very impressed with BR that he switched Sterling to the left to do a job on Sagna. Sagna is the more threating fullback than Monreal and Raheem pressed and tracked back excellently. He has been in great form in the past 5 games and has also learn to play in different positions and roles.
...

I mentioned it in the thread too, as did Rogers after the match. As much as Sterling's tracking back, I think (especially in the first half), his attacking pushed Sagna bak and stopped him being an outlet too.

Offline redmark

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #141 on: February 10, 2014, 09:21:16 pm »
While I was reading that, my eyes got drawn to Henderson at the beginning. Pretty much in line with Coutinho and after his first touch (between the 2 players), Henderson is off. Not waiting to see how Coutinho get's out of it, just knowing that he will.

To give Henderson some credit, he also accelerates well, ignores the defender (Gibbs?) when he gets drawn inside to try and cut the ball off, keeping a straight line and receiving the ball almost perfectly (he actually has to slow slightly). He runs 60 yards in 7 seconds, in the 67th minute, before taking the touch (Sturridge, for example, had to run about 20 yards at any pace in the buildup to his goal) and has made up his mind what he's going to do when he gets there. Lacking a touch of composure at that point is probably to be expected.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #142 on: February 10, 2014, 09:24:02 pm »
By the way, nice of Clem to turn up on the Kop. Always feel safer with him at that end of the ground. No need though. We could have played without a single goalie in the first half, never mind two.

It was just lovely that, wasn't it? I'm off to watch it again, stuff it.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #143 on: February 10, 2014, 09:24:11 pm »
I mentioned it in the thread too, as did Rogers after the match. As much as Sterling's tracking back, I think (especially in the first half), his attacking pushed Sagna bak and stopped him being an outlet too.

Slackers ;).

Quote from: redmark on February  8, 2014, 01:12:33 PM
Should be said allied to the intensity and hunger, Suarez right, Sterling left and Sturridge up top looks fucking beautiful.


Mind, I'd been trying to PM that to 5th Benitle by phone since the second went in, and we kept bloody scoring.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #144 on: February 10, 2014, 09:27:49 pm »
He only puts on the burners when Phil gets out of trouble. Mind you, he ate up Monreal after that.

Edit: Gibbs? Thought he was supposed to be lightning?

Yep, Gibbs came on 5 minutes earlier. Watch Gibbs as he crosses halfway - he glances over at Henderson and decides then, before he sees the weight of the pass, that he has to cut the pass out and starts curving his run, because he's outpaced.
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Offline Wullie160975

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #145 on: February 10, 2014, 09:27:54 pm »
He only puts on the burners when Phil gets out of trouble. Mind you, he ate up Monreal after that.

Edit: Gibbs? Thought he was supposed to be lightning?

It's the first few steps forward I like, the anticipation of getting ready to go and once Coutinho cuts back outside, he's off.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #146 on: February 10, 2014, 09:36:30 pm »
Yeah, good posts. Where Henderson sets off from his run is so telling to what effect Coutinho has on his teammates. Henderson realises that he could be in 70 yards from goal. I've seen this before as well.

First day of the season, Sturridge gets played in by Coutinho and Danny shoots from the angle but it's saved by Begovic. Not that amazing a play really until I went back and watched when Sturridge started his run for Coutinho's pass: it was actually before Coutinho had received the ball. Sturridge sets off on his sprint as the ball is half way from Gerarrd to Coutinho. Phil still has to trap, turn and play the pass, three touches, but Sturridge is already 10-15 yards into his run at goal.

Arguably my favourite Liverpool goal of last season, Henderson at Villa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdv18CLi_dI
Very similar to his chance against Arsenal in that Henderson realises near the halfway line that he's in on goal because of who's playing the pass. There's no way he makes that run unless Coutinho or David Silva, Messi or Xavi are on that ball. Obviously I don't think Coutinho is as good as these three but for this particular skill, the 30-40 yard weighted through ball, that's what league I'm putting him in. Lesser, but still pleasing to the eye examples were Hendersons first at St. James' and Sturridge's hat-trick goal at Fulham.

And my third and final piece of evidence, Your Honour, is from the Arsenal game again. It was off camera, and I wasn't at the ground, but I will bet all the money in my pockets (£5.11) that Daniel Sturridge's run for his goal started almost immediately after Coutinho won the ball. We all know what happened after that.

This ability to this level is pretty unique. Ozil has not been showing it at Arsenal. One of my doubts about Mata as a world class footballer is that I don't think he's got a consistently accurate through ball in him. There are a few footballers in the league that can play cute little through balls in and around the area (Cazorla, Wilshere and Ozil for example), usually as a result of a one-two in tight area or slipping someone in down the side of a full back. By my reckoning there are two who can do the longer slide rule through ball with any regularity in this league. Himself and Silva.

And in open games, against high defensive lines, it is lethal. Just the threat of it causes movement. Pulls defenders out of position, trying to anticipate the passing lanes that he's seeing. And has Sturridge and Henderson setting off on charges at goal before anyone else realises what's going on.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #147 on: February 10, 2014, 09:41:49 pm »
Corkboy has very eloquently eulogised about the beautiful through ball from Coutinho for Sturridge's goal.  It is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.

Just as beautiful was the through ball for Henderson's chance below



But, looking back at this - and I must have watched it two dozen times yesterday - it's something else that caught my eye.

It's the Vision Thing, to quote George Bush senior.

Most of us, in whatever bad standard of football we played, can see when a team who presses high can be caught out with a long through ball. And while most of us resorted to whacking it upfield roughly in the direction of our speedy team mate, the pros can judge it so much better. The great ones, like Philippe, with plenty of time and space, can judge the weight to perfection, taking out the defence and setting up your team mate.

But how do you find the time and space in the first place?  It's here that you can tell a great footballer from an exceptional one. 
Coutinho is under pressure, around 10 yards outside his own penalty area. He's got an Arsenal player alongside him harrying him, and he's facing Jack Wilshere (at least I think it's Wilshere) in front of him. Wilshere's in a marky mood, so there's a good chance that he might just clatter into Philippe.
It's at this moment - ten yards outside his own box - that Coutinho thinks to himself 'If I can get past Wilshere, there's a ton of space behind him'.
Now, where you or I might have tried to kick it past him to the outside of Wilshere and tried to run around him, this is where Philippe's vision kicks in. 'I'll flick the ball inside him using my instep, change my direction, accelerate past him and take him out of the game. Then I'll have loads of space and time as Arteta won't be able to cover that ground either'. 
And he decides this and executes it in approximately 0.50 seconds. The ball is never more than a yard away from his foot. This is a man in a maelstrom yet in total control of time and space. Like Dr. Flipping Who.

The Vision Thing. This is what Brendan Rodgers Football is all about.

Neither Flanagan nor Allen joined in. Ideally one additional LFC player ought to have made the run that . . . the referee made.

I understand the Henderson shot was a good idea that was not perfectly executed. Had it been, it would've been an awesome goal. I also understand that the pass to Suarez is available. Still, it's 3 AFC players + their keeper v 2 LFC players. Imagine the run the referee makes is made by a man in red. I think the options are superior in that case.
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #148 on: February 10, 2014, 09:57:03 pm »
The ball and the run were too fast for anyone to catch up with, Grk. Allen was covering the middle in case Coutinho turned over the ball. Everyone who could have got forward on the break, got forward.
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Offline Wullie160975

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #149 on: February 10, 2014, 10:02:06 pm »
Slackers ;).

Quote from: redmark on February  8, 2014, 01:12:33 PM
Should be said allied to the intensity and hunger, Suarez right, Sterling left and Sturridge up top looks fucking beautiful.


Mind, I'd been trying to PM that to 5th Benitle by phone since the second went in, and we kept bloody scoring.

I still find it interesting that Sterling has always looked strongest coming in off the left (for reserves and U18's anyway), but plays remarkably well on the right too. Switching over to the left for Sat for a game against Arsenal could be daunting after so long away from it for most players, but her just switched back without blinking.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #150 on: February 10, 2014, 10:04:16 pm »
The ball and the run were too fast for anyone to catch up with, Grk. Allen was covering the middle in case Coutinho turned over the ball. Everyone who could have got forward on the break, got forward.

Plus we're 5-0 up and have a game on Wednesday. There's no reason to bust a bollock in that situation for the sake of making an extra man.
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #151 on: February 10, 2014, 10:06:50 pm »
http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/England-Premier-League

Liverpool with 5 players in Whoscored.com's EPL team of the week. Not sure I've seen so many from one team.



Henderson, Flanagan, and Cissokho can count themselves unlucky not to be included as well in my opinion.

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #152 on: February 10, 2014, 10:09:11 pm »
I still find it interesting that Sterling has always looked strongest coming in off the left (for reserves and U18's anyway), but plays remarkably well on the right too. Switching over to the left for Sat for a game against Arsenal could be daunting after so long away from it for most players, but her just switched back without blinking.

Thats the beauty of our front 3. They're so interchangable positionally and play so incredibly fast that it must be incredibly difficult for centre-halves to know who to track and even have time to react when they eventually figure it out!

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #153 on: February 10, 2014, 10:27:27 pm »
I watched the goals again and realized how well-worked Skrtel's second goal actually was as a set-piece. (I couldn't find the gif to paste in here but hopefully someone else can post it below)

Arsenal utilize zonal marking on corners, which lets players get a run on their standing start. Other teams have scored against them this way this season, most notably van Persie for United in the 1-0 win at Old Trafford, so its clearly something Brendan and his staff identified as a weakness, and here's how:

In the box we had one player rooted to the keeper (Sturridge), Skrtel at the edge of the box, 2 players in the middle of the box lined up parallel to the 6 yard box, and 2 in line with the front post.
Step 1: After Gerrard's signal, the two players who were lined up with the front post sprint towards the corner, bringing two defenders with them.
Step 2: The players who were parallel to the 6 yard box push towards the goal, blocking the defenders from moving forward to attack the cross
Step 3: Skrtel, who was unmarked at the top of the box (as would have been known given how Arsenal always set up in a zone, and that Ozil doesn't defend headers) attacks the empty space between the 6 yard box and the penalty spot that was completely vacated following the movement of the other 4 players.
(Step 4: Had the header not been so damn good, Sturridge would have been free infront of the goalkeeper to glance it in).

An incredible team goal that they've no doubt worked on in practice. It must be a real delight when hard work like that comes off in big games, which has been the case so often this season. Its also worth noting that the goal Sturridge scored against Man United earlier in the season was very very similar to this one in terms of movement. The corner directly after this one was also clearly rehearsed, which was when Gerrard crossed to Suarez outside the box for him to volley. There's no way that sequence of events was a positioning fluke.

If anyone has the gif of the second goal please post below or in a reply to this post to help people visualize what i've just described :)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 11:03:52 pm by rickardinho1 »

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #154 on: February 10, 2014, 10:38:48 pm »
Making Gibbs look like he'd forgotten how his knees work was just the icing on the cake.

Great spot.
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #155 on: February 10, 2014, 10:52:20 pm »

Like many matchgoers, I have a few silly rituals . 30 years ago, when there wasn't quite the same range of merchandise available as there is now, my gran knitted me a red, white & yellow bobble hat.

I wore it to a couple of games, we didn't win, so it had to go.

Fast forward a few decades, gran long-departed , and I'm rummaging around my parents loft. There , nestled amongst the assorted old programmes , shin pads & subbuteo teams was grans old bobble hat (minus the bobble)

Caught up in a wave of nostalgia, I took it to the next match, but remembering its dark side, kept it in my pocket.

When Arshavin scored his 4th goal, I tried some reverse psychology. Out of the corner of his eye, Yossi glimpsed a ragged red white and yellow woollen blur bouncing around in the Lower Annie Road and was inspired. A lucky hat was born.

Since then the hat has gone to every game with me, but only gets to see the light of day if we go behind, or we're drawing and desperate for a winner.

So the hat is in my pocket on Saturday lunchtime and we're standing having a pie beside the entrance to 222. The wind is cutting around my ears and the daughter is insisting we go in with a good 45 minutes left to kick off. With the false bravado of a man walking under a ladder while smashing a mirror over a black cat I put the hat on. I was that cold.

12.50 and a new superstition is born. For the last few months I've needed glasses to watch the tele for long periods and my optician suggested that I try them at the match as well. I'm still cleaning the lenses as Skrtel scores his first goal. With all the excitement I put them safely back in their case and bounce around with everyone else for 20 minutes. I turn to my dad - 'that's it, from now on I'm not putting them on until we score!'

At 5-0, the glasses go on , we're well and truly out of sight.

I love all of the in depth analysis on here, I've learnt a lot since joining RAWK. But for me, Saturday was all about the raw emotional power of the game. The aching anticipation of a potential defeat, the gnawing hope of victory, the shared joy and excitement - sheer energy - of those first 20 minutes.

The heightened emotions from 0-0 to 4-0 created an almost unreal feeling. You hear people talk about 'out of body' experiences and this was as close as football gets to that. I don't know if you remember the official FIFA film of the 1970 World Cup , where clip after clip of Pele & co just leave your mouth locked in a wide 'WOW'?

Saturday came close. The heart, the soul, the guts, the head - Saturday had something for all of us, wherever the game gets you the most.

Phew!
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #156 on: February 10, 2014, 10:59:16 pm »
Henderson, Flanagan, and Cissokho can count themselves unlucky not to be included as well in my opinion.

And Sturridge. The top 5 scores in that team are all LFC. Look who is top....Martin S........yes the defender who many here thought was a donkey not that long ago. Well done once again lad.
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #157 on: February 10, 2014, 11:03:41 pm »

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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #158 on: February 10, 2014, 11:45:50 pm »
The ball and the run were too fast for anyone to catch up with, Grk. Allen was covering the middle in case Coutinho turned over the ball. Everyone who could have got forward on the break, got forward.
I also think that there is good discipline shown by Allen & Flanagan (yes I did it that way on purpose) not to go too gung-ho and throw everyone forward...
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Re: RAWK Round Table LFC 5-1 AFC
« Reply #159 on: February 11, 2014, 12:01:29 am »
The games against Everton and Arsenal have been massively encouraging for me, purely in terms of what Rodgers has done. The results have obviously been great, the performances also but I've been really happy to see what Rodgers has done in both of those games and tactically, the adjustments he has made shows that he is the manager we need to go forward.

When I've posted this season I've been spoken a lot about control in midfield. Having a system of controlling games, whether that's through control of space or ball, is something that I'm really passionate about and in my opinion I don't think you can achieve much, certainly consistently, without a strong, balanced way of taking the initiative. That doesn't mean through ball possession necessarily at all - in my view control of space, particularly in the Premier League which is much more open and where teams concentrate less on closing off space, is a simpler and more effective way of controlling a match.

My main doubt with Rodgers for the best part of a year has been how he organises the team to control midfield. For a while I worried that he was effectively ignoring midfield and allowing, if not encouraging, open games. When teams sat back very deep against us, not challenging in midfield and tried to contain our attack in the final third, it suited us. When teams looked to take the initiative or competed well in midfield, either with good movement and tempo on the ball and/or aggressive pressing in the middle third, we struggled. Our defence isn't one that particularly pushes up to condense space between the lines, nor do they really have the pace ideal to play a high line - their reflex reaction is to drop deep. Our forwards tended to stay high off the ball, often very obviously by instruction, instead of dropping to play compact with the rest of the defensive block. Our midfield personnel was never really ideal to control the large spaces that appeared and in some games our lack of coordination as a team defensively made us very open in midfield and between the lines. Rodgers initial failures to react to this slightly worried me.

Then the Tottenham game happened. We switched to a 4-3-3, we were compact, we looked like a collective group defensively, we pressed together much better and because of that, controlled the midfield, and we counter attacked really well. It suited us to put more concentration on controlling time and space in midfield because we had the pace and ability on the counter attack to really hurt Tottenham and that's what we did. It was the best game I'd seen under Rodgers until the weekend.

The Everton game was a similar thing for me. Maybe it was the early goal but it was like Rodgers was completely understanding the weaknesses and strengths of his squad and not only that, but applying solutions to this. When he first came in as manager for us, it was all about his possession football - we were going to control games through dominating the ball. When Coutinho and Sturridge were bought and after the defence had looked very open at points in the opening months of last season, Rodgers seemingly compromised it, or rather adjusted it to the squad he had available (he hasn't got enough credit for this).

In the Everton game, Rodgers played just as suited the team. Toure and Skrtel don't suit a high line - their pace is limited, they don't particularly move up to compress space and in possession, the triangle of Mignolet and them (as I think YorkyKopite pointed out on the last Round Table thread) is relatively poor in terms of ball retention under pressure. So we played a mid to low block, fairly disciplined although not perfect, trying to shut off the middle through showing the ball wide, staying compact and working hard in the areas in front of Gerrard. And then, with the spaces that opened up, that we were forcing Everton to open up through showing them wide, we could counter attack lethally behind their high line. It was an approach that suited our qualities throughout the team completely

Saturday was an even bigger step up. Again maybe it was the early goal but it was immediately obvious we were playing a mid to low block, allowing them possession to come out and open up bigger spaces for us to attack into. Arsenal's transition defence is mediocre; they press high sometimes but not in a completely organised way. Cazorla is often inside and leaves them imbalanced when they lose possession, and without an organised aggressive press when they lose the ball their left side becomes very vulnerable (Rodgers clearly targeted this). Arteta had very big spaces to cover and we had very big spaces to attack into. Their high line just made it an even bigger mess. I'm not sure I've ever seen a first 20 minutes like that in any football match before.

The point is though that Rodgers has found a way to control midfield that doesn't sacrifice our strengths but in fact extends them. Henderson and Coutinho were very good. They worked really hard defensively, shutting off space and closing down at the right times. I saw someone on Twitter make a really good point that having Coutinho in midfield in the area we were winning the ball made it easier for us to counter quickly - we didn't win the ball and then have to find a certain player to play the ball forward or to orchestrate the attack. When he won the ball, he was good enough to find the pass immediately to catch Arsenal when they were unbalanced. This is an example of how the way Rodgers seems to be choosing suits our players. When faced against a low block, Coutinho has a tendency to force the play and not be patient enough. When we are counter attacking into big spaces, he comes into his own. I must admit I was worried about our ability to control midfield before the game and thought Allen should've started ahead of Coutinho but I was completely wrong. After we got the early goal and it was clear we could just play for counter attack, he was the perfect player to have in midfield.

It was just so satisfying to watch how tactically fitted in Rodgers was to our players. He didn't get us to try and hold and dominate possession on Saturday. We pressed and shut off space so well in front of Gerrard which meant Arsenal, instead of concentrating on attacking our weak points with forward runs against Toure and Skrtel, just dropped deeper into midfield, making it more comfortable for us to control the game defensively with our pressing in that area. It was perfect in many ways.

Rodgers also got it right in playing Sterling on the left. Arsenal tend to attack much more on the right - Sagna gets forward a lot, Ozil likes to move towards that side. We effectively shut off that area of the pitch and made it harder for Arsenal to build play through the lines. It meant Suarez could get 1v1 with Monreal or behind him, Sturridge could use his pace and movement behind Koscielny and Sterling could then creep inside unnoticed behind Sagna.

I'm hopefully doing a piece for Anfield Index at some point this week on this subject, elaborating a bit more on what Rodgers has been doing tactically and the changes he's made to give us a system of control. I'm enormously impressed by what he's doing at the moment.
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