Author Topic: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC  (Read 24488 times)

Offline Zlen

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2013, 09:58:30 pm »
I know we should write some proper insight in this thread, offer some analysis, but all I can offer is a small confession of teary eyes and laughing like a lunatic after Flanagan scored. It's been a while since last Liverpool gave me such a catharsic moment of pure joy and ecstasy, long time since that crazy night in May. Something broke in me after that goal. Some ugly, calcified, magic-choking wall that was layed brick by painful and disappointing brick over past several years was blown to pieces by that goal and by Kenny's broad smile in the audience moments later.

I'm at peace now somehow.
We aren't slipping back any time soon.
We're rising, dusting off wings.
We're hungry.


Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2013, 10:02:32 pm »
It's so hard to do a complete critique of that performance because we were so good and Spurs were so utterly awful.  Were they awful because we made them so or did they just play into our hands and make our lives easier?  Who cares, right?!

Regardless of Tottenham's deficiencies (we had injuries too remember), that was a complete performance and should have been even more humiliating. Lloris was the only player to come out of the game with any credit for Spurs and yet he conceded five. Bizarre.

On Henderson. Before the game many were saying that Gerrards injury was both a problem and an opportunity for our midfield.  Henderson has played well throughout 2013 and it's nice to see the media catching up with what the rest of us already knew (or should have!).  The difference here was that without Gerrard the whole midfield was able to act as a single pressing unit, high up the pitch and without fear of tiring.  Henderson proved that he can act as a foil for Suarez and Allen put in his best performance since early in the 2012/13 season.  Difference now is that the whole team was in sync so we won comfortably.  The whole midfield was the most balanced I've seen it since Mascherano and Alonso were dominating the prem.

On Sterling. I've criticised him this season and while I know he is young the amount of game time he got last year almost demanded a step up from him which didn't seem to appear.  Yesterday was like a switch went off in his head and he realised how much better he was than the likes of Naughton. Some of his passes were sublime and his only weakness was after beating his man his final ball would often be rushed. Mind you, the same criticism would be thrown at Suarez a couple of years back.  The future is bright with this lad and I really hope this will give him the confidence he's needed.

On playing them every week. If only! With Villas Boas gone you would assume they will tighten up their style of play. They need to desperately.

It will be interesting to see if we can keep that style of pressing and control going against different teams with different styles of play.  It feels like it's a tactic that will work away at big teams who themselves look to push forward. Breaking down weaker teams may require something else, but then we haven't exactly struggled in the last 12 months against the weaker teams.

A couple of negatives, first Skrtel who I felt slowed us down a little too much. It's a minor item, but he clearly lacks confidence to try to play out and often pushes it back to Mignolet.  Also Mignolet showed a few nerves which could have cost us, but it was nice to see things go our way for once.  As for Johnson, in a game when we dominated so completely it was sad to see his poor passing as some if it was really sloppy and when under no pressure.  Not sure if he needs a break or his heart just isn't in it. I hope I'm wrong but he doesn't look as in tune as the rest of the first team.

Suarez was amazing as always. Our passing was just ridiculous at times, with Allen, Henderson, Coutinho and Sterling all trying to out-Gerrard each other.  For me Henderson was MoM but there were several who could have taken it.

Final word is for Flanagan. Rodgers has begun to take it upon himself to rehabilitate players. Henderson's career looked over. Sturridge was on the last chance saloon. Suarez was one crazy moment away from having his visa revoked! With Flanagan I'll admit I thought his Liverpool career was over before it started. He didn't seem to be able to break through and when he finally did had a torrid time. But Rodgers persevered and against Everton he put in a very mature performance. Yesterday was such a special moment. I'll admit to getting choked up when the celebrations started for his goal. We haven't seen it mean so much to a player or the team for so long. Local lad, local hero. And he could have had a second.

Amazing...

Offline BazC

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2013, 10:15:55 pm »
When I did the Advent Calendar thing for the Arsenal game, back in 2009, at the end I mentioned there was an electricity buzzing away in the background with this current team. Well Spurs got the full force of some proper lightening bolts yesterday. Incredible performance. I had to rewatch it, not something I normally do, but I rewatched it. And they way the lads pressed with aggression, won the right to play football, then were devastating with their quality on the ball to score the goals was pretty perfect.

The last time I watched a game with such giddy joy was when we thrashed Real Madrid 4-0. 

And it was brilliant to see the lads were enjoying themselves - they looked like a team, genuinely happy with Flanagan's goal for example.

I can't wait for the next game. On paper it's an easy one. Especially after that. But there're no games in this league where you can turn up and expect a win. As much a test of our midfield without Gerrard was yesterday, Saturday's game will also be a big one, in a different way. With Coutinho, Sterling and Suarez playing like they are, I'm confident we have the creativity in the side. With Allen, Lucas and Henderson, I'm confident we have a solid midfield as well. And hey, we even kept a clean sheet yesterday!

Another good win on Saturday, and we go into 2 of the hardest games of our season with some brilliant momentum.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2013, 10:23:47 pm »
As always, a fantastic thread, summing up everything about the game. Weirdly it's as nice to read the notes of sensible caution in here after a result like this as it is the positives after a bad defeat.

Among the few caveats I'd say that Spurs' defence had important injuries and thus played awfully against players they were ill-equipped to deal with. The high-line didn't help but it shouldn't be seen in isolation - I'll come back to that later.

I agree with Yorky too about Skrtel, Johnson and would tentatively add Mignolet into that too in terms of his distrubution. The latter is very, very good and has given us more confidence in that area over Reina, but his distribution isn't great and he's sometimes slow to react in that respect. Similar goes for Skrtel, he hides from being on the ball or taking responsibility with it, and it can cost us - and that penalty shout was a very good one and typical of the bizarre brain-farts that he just seems consistently prone to, bad mistakes not necessarily under any real pressure. I'd love to see Agger and Sakho given a chance together and, even more so, I'm really hoping Ilori comes good - height, pace and skill on the ball that may even exceed Agger's. He's a player of thrilling potential that, like Sakho, might be one of those who simply becomes undroppable after being given a chance - though that most likely won't happen this season or next. I'm not totally sure, to be honest, what Skrtel is bringing to the table now that's brought such a turnaround in views from the manager. As for Johnson, he's playing like someone who's mind and body are being forced through treacle - it's like he's playing stoned. Yards off the pace, giving away possession with alarming regularity and looking like he's playing by/for himself rather than integrated into the team, very frustratingly so because he's obviously such a phenomenal talent. It is frustrating to see us work the ball patiently only to have someone launch it straight to the opposition, and Johnson's done that far too much recently, and did so also against Spurs.

Last note of caution is that they did almost come back into it at 2-0 - a couple of chances they could have done better with, a penalty claim that we were very lucky to get away with, they were on top in that phase, even though we should have killed it ourselves with Sakho's header and also looked extremely dangerous on the break. Just that we've shown a horrible capacity to implode after conceding and Sunday didn't tell us anything new about our team in that respect.

But it's really boring griping too much after a win like this isn't it?

So instead I want to focus on Sterling, who impressed the hell out of me and who hasn't been spoken about lots on this thread yet:

Spurs high line looked horrible without pressing, but they did press at the start, and did put us under some pressure. Their midfield has been extremely solid all season. We earned the right to get at their back 4, and we did so because of our own pressing and ability to dominate that midfield. Now, our central 3 all played well to phenomenally well, and were a huge part of that victory, but it didn't seem to start there. It started, for me, with a small speedster on the right by the name of Raheem. Bloody hell - he seriously took the game by the balls from the first minute, and what's really impressive is he did it off the ball. He set the tone in terms of our pressing, and did it at a time when Spurs were actually a threat, he took that threat, neutralised it, then turned it round and absolutely destroyed a quick, strong and quality right-back with far more experience under his belt.

What I also loved about his display, in comparison to the English winger speedster mould a la Lennon and Walcott that we've grown used to watching , was the intelligence in his dribbling. Now pure pace is a lethal weapon, but most such players seem only to use that, seem only to know that. Beating a player is kicking it into space then doing them for pace, or being released in behind. Now Sterling's got that in his locker of course - so much so that he could easily have doubled his goal tally this season - but if you look at most of the times he beat Walker he isn't doing him with pace but skill, taking small touches, chick changes of direction and neat footwork, not just knocking it clear and making it a footrace. The lad has brains, touch and a serious work-ethic. A bit more belief and there's potential there to be a good few levels above what Walcott and Lennon are capable of, while also having everything in his locker that they already possess - and who among us would turn down either of those players as an option at the very least?

Final note - I think Donkeywan's spot on. This is a timeless result to savour, and I also think results like this can catalyse beyond the immediate three points. You may know, feel, be really sure that you can take on and beat anyone - but it clearly helps cement that knowledge a lot when you actually do, you know, take on and thrash a very solid team indeed - a team whose biggest strength this season has probably been our biggest weakness, namely solidity in midfield. We've got among the very best of the best all time up top - seriously, I doubt anyone my age (33) has seen a more outrageously gifted player for us in terms of that 'WTF!?' ability to do things that defy physics - and he allies that to a Roy Keane style mentality and capacity for hard work. He is an absolutely bonkers player. We've got top, top players dotted around the park in every position, we're gelling and growing as a team and with more to come, we have a progressive, intelligent and flexible manager who gets us, we've got sensible owners who understand what the words 'long' and 'term' mean, there's a hell of a lot to be positive about at the moment. If we can perform in the next few matches, if we can avoid our tendency to reach that threshold and then trip over it - hit a good patch of form before the next bad result - then we should be nailed on for top 4 and looking up from there.

Overall then: Woot!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 10:56:11 pm by hesbighesred »
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2013, 10:33:27 pm »
It's so hard to do a complete critique of that performance because we were so good and Spurs were so utterly awful.  Were they awful because we made them so or did they just play into our hands and make our lives easier?  Who cares, right?!
See my post but let's not forget here that Spurs' have been conceding sod-all to anyone bar City at home, who are clearly capable of scoring plenty against anyone. Even with their make-shift defence playing like they do you have to at least have parity with the midfield in order to be able to really get at that high back line - otherwise you're losing second balls all over the place and seeing attacks snuffed out before we can begin.  Now for sure they've had their problems this season but that midfield isn't one of them, and no doubt before the match many would have swapped theirs for ours in a heartbeat - heck I probably would have - but we destroyed that midfield. No-one could or would have predicted that. That we'd hold our own? Sure. But that wasn't holding our own, that was making a good team look far, far shitter than they are, and doing so by destroying their main strength - in that respect it was Rafa-style, but Rafa-style (and I say this as one of his biggest fans, and not even as necessarily a criticism of him or praise for Rodgers) with a Rodgers-style commitment to attacking that has been exhilarating to support (for good or ill) since day one.
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2013, 10:36:34 pm »
Sterling has been like that for a few games now.
He's had distractions, police issues, the birth of his fifth child etc, and at the age of 19 these clearly can have an effect.
But, he's got his mojo back, he's using his attributes really well, and he's so strong it's untrue for a little fella.

Balanced well with countinho (I prefer him joining the action drifting on from the left, I know no one else does, but you're all wrong ;D), and that second goal had a stunning pass each from them in the build up.

Allen's work rate was phenomenal, in the 90th minute he was absolutely busting a gut to drop in to the centre back position when Sakho stepped forwards, directing others, great stuff.

Sakho?  Forget defending, there wasn't much to do, but he seems to get a chance to score every single game, we look dangerous from corners when he plays.

Henderson was dynamic, and intelligent with the ball and Suarez was ... Well, just Suarez.

Motm for me was Rodgers.  Lots been said about spurs playing into our hands by allowing Henderson to run in behind.  But in truth, Rodgers ruthlessly exploited Spurs weaknesses, it was hugely effective, and was made in the mind of the porcelain toothed one.

Mention at the end for Alberto.... Lovely assist, a bit one paced, but I could see him as a false 9.  He's the new Frank Lampard I tell you all (and I don't mean that as an insult).
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Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2013, 10:36:52 pm »
We outshot them at a rate of 2 to 1 at their place. I am actually curious to see how this ratio compares to their games to man city, Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea. I know they we outshooting most of the other teams by a similar ratio.

Offline John C

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2013, 10:37:06 pm »

Do we think Henderson maybe feels unshackled by absence of Gerrard?
Henderson is an enigma to me mate, but a positive one that's growing in to the team. Perhaps its BR that's improved him from being quite poor at first under Kenny to being marginalised at first under Brendan. Then suddenly he's capable of brilliant games playing on the left and abject games in his favourite central area. But overall he is improving massively and suffice to say if you can demonstrate the ability to play like he has this season he won't be on the "possible out's" list in May.

In terms of yesterdays game I think he smelt their uneasiness from the off. He could have walked out of the tunnel unnerved by the international stardom of Spurs but within 10-minutes you could see he'd sensed this a game I can boss.

Do we think Sterling is perhaps just beginning to get it?
He has to put many more games like that in for me to be convinced if I have to be honest with you all. But he was unrecognisable, it wasn't just his close control and decisions to run at them, for me it was his running behind their back 4 that wrecked their poor defensive line. He was brilliant at it. If I was him I'd watch that game a few time to see how effective he can be and ensure it drilled in, nailed, cemented and welded to his young footballing mind.
Go and tell the boss you're ready for the next 3 games and you'll justify many more starts before the end of the season.

Do we wish we could play them like that every week...
I didn't want to play them this week, I feared BR being found out, honestly. But I'm certain that of we played them tomorrow we'd beat them at least 2-0 again.

Man for man I couldn't have asked for a better performance except for the way we played in Mignolet nervously on occasions, but that's just minor issues in a fabulous game of football by Liverpool. A vintage display, a historic Sunday afternoon with a set of goals and assists enviable of any European team.

Offline woof

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2013, 10:46:58 pm »
As someone said, it was the perfect storm. Everything that we did, we did well. Everything that Spurs did, they did poorly.

First goal: Just watch Suarez. The moment the ball left his feet for Jordan Henderson, he just kept running while the Spurs players just watched. And then like the twinkling of the eye, Luis just shifted his feet faster than the eye could see (ala Matrix) and we have our first goal.

Had things gone Spurs' way, they should have equalised not long after. Thanks to Johnson. In fact, after Hendo's goal, it was Johnson who was at fault again who gave the ball away and Spurs once again, nearly scored. Things would have been so different on another day.

The scoreline didn't flatter us but it's also because Spurs were rubbish. Had they scored with the chances they were presented, things could have been different. But that's football. We've been to games where we totally dominated and yet ended up losing. Perhaps all the rotten luck of previous seasons have come back to haunt the opposition teams instead of us.

OK, got that out of the way.

I thought the lads, with the exception of Johnson (yes, you Glen!!!) played brilliantly. Just as BR said, they approached the game with a good mentality and hunger. It showed we wanted to win more. It didn't help that Spurs were trying to play counter attack at home but without the right weapons. It's like shooting jelly out of a bazooka. What was AVB thinking?

I just pray that Suarez continues this form until the end of the season. Would love to see him score 50 goals. He's such a joy to watch. My favourite all time player is Digger but Suarez will probably usurp that position after this season. Such brilliance.

This wasn't a match like the one against Norwich where it was a Suarez show. This time around, he had a bloody awesome supporting cast. Hendo has finally made some supporters and pundits take notice (no, not that gait). I just love his work rate, attitude and tenacity.

Sterling probably played his BEST game ever. His crossfield pass to Coutinho - oh, such beauty. So Gerrard-esque. And he capped it off with a fine goal too. Let's hope he's the real deal now.

I thought Sakho was just colossal. He repelled everything (well, that's not saying a lot, is it?) that Spurs threw at him. He needs to be the first choice CB.

Coutinho wasn't at his best but it's probably because he was targeted by the Spurs midfield and defence. But it didn't matter. Could have scored a very early goal.

Allen was tidy and made sure things ticked along quick. If you watch him, he doesn't pass the ball back as much as the others. He and Lucas just dominated the midfield. More of this, please!

Sorry to hear about AVB's dismissal. Perhaps he was over-complicating things. Perhaps he didn't handle his players well. This shows and contrasts how astute BR is. This season, we are more pragmatic with the use of the ball and therefore, more efficient. Would love to see BR taking us to the Holy Grail soon.....

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2013, 10:47:33 pm »
Wow o Wow! That was breathtaking from start to finish, from the blitz press by Allen and Henderson onto Dembele, that enabled us to nick the ball in the first 5minutes set a precendent for the match. We bullied that midfield, it was a complete massacre with or without Sandro.. We came to play.. We came to win.

Do we think Henderson maybe feels unshackled by absence of Gerrard?

As others have eluded to not just Henderson but Allen as well - far too often have they defered to the captain and shirked responsibility. They didn't have that easy ball on Sunday, that shift of responsibility to make something happen, they had to step up and be counted and boy did they do that. Henderson has it all in his locker, it's all in his head and if we can harness he will be a complete beast maraudering up and down for 90 minutes and beyond.. Allen played his part as well, unshackled from the worries of a dodgy shoulder he shook off the miss at Everton and hounded and harried some pretty beastly specimns in the Spurs midfield - Xavi/Inesta have shown us size doesn't matter if you utilise what you have, Joe is certainly growing into quite the player - 7 tackles he made, more than the Spurs midfield alone - it's no suprise Lucas didn't have much to do bar close down the angles - that's how good Allen and Gerrard were.

This doesn't mean the end for Gerrard, but finally we may start using him correctly - if he can't press with the intensity shown by the midfield 3 on Sunday then he plays 60 minutes or 30minutes at the end, it's not at a detrement to the player but he is 33 and his body simply can't do what the much younger 3 did.

Do we think Sterling is perhaps just beginning to get it?

Sterling has always had a 26 year olds head on those very young shoulders, his game intelligence is second to none, but he seemed to have retreated into his shell and forgot/lost the confidence to just go at his man - because when he does he is a huge threat. 2 goals and 2 assists in 5 games - he is on course to equal and probably surpass a certain Portuguese winger at 19. We musn't over use him though.

Do we wish we could play them like that every week...

We will, this is what Rodgers probably had in his 1000 page manifesto, it's no suprise Henry tweeted after the match - finally the fruition of the promises made in a summer where owners flirted over coffee with a Spaniard..

Long may it continue.

Offline BazC

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2013, 10:51:20 pm »
hbhr- brilliant post. For me, Sterling was the standout player as well, and you summed it up perfectly. And good comparison with Lennon, who was also on the pitch yesterday apparently. If he can even match Walcott's output though, I'd be happy - think Walcott got close to 30 goals+assists last season. Lennon/Townsend - flashy types who don't have that productivity. Our Raheem looks like he does have it in his locker, couple of goals in the league since he came back into the side, and should have had a few more at least. It was great to see the confidence he had yesterday - that's something the Lennons/Townsends of this world do have over him it seems. That comes with game time, and more experiences like yesterday's though. He should be buzzing going into Saturday.

Sterling has been like that for a few games now.
He's had distractions, police issues, the birth of his fifth child etc, and at the age of 19 these clearly can have an effect.
But, he's got his mojo back, he's using his attributes really well, and he's so strong it's untrue for a little fella.

Balanced well with countinho (I prefer him joining the action drifting on from the left, I know no one else does, but you're all wrong ;D), and that second goal had a stunning pass each from them in the build up.

Allen's work rate was phenomenal, in the 90th minute he was absolutely busting a gut to drop in to the centre back position when Sakho stepped forwards, directing others, great stuff.

Sakho?  Forget defending, there wasn't much to do, but he seems to get a chance to score every single game, we look dangerous from corners when he plays.

Henderson was dynamic, and intelligent with the ball and Suarez was ... Well, just Suarez.

Motm for me was Rodgers.  Lots been said about spurs playing into our hands by allowing Henderson to run in behind.  But in truth, Rodgers ruthlessly exploited Spurs weaknesses, it was hugely effective, and was made in the mind of the porcelain toothed one.

Mention at the end for Alberto.... Lovely assist, a bit one paced, but I could see him as a false 9.  He's the new Frank Lampard I tell you all (and I don't mean that as an insult).

Good points, although I think Sakho had quite a bit to do at times actually - he was brilliant at being a rock in our defence yesterday, and when Spurs did have the odd foray forward, he was the one most likely to stop them in their tracks. Whether it was in the air or on the ground. His calmness when he's defending is a boon in that part of the pitch. As well as the aerial prowess, that sense of calm Sami used to have has not been present in our defence consistently. Sakho brings it in spades.

And Alberto deserves plaudits for that assist, it was obviously a fantastic finish by Luis, but Alberto's got his back to goal when he receives that pass. He doesn't take an extra touch, but plays that through ball on the turn. Brilliant vision.

Oh and talking about passing vision. Henderson playing a 40 yard cross field pass, on the turn without even looking. Inch fucking perfect, how he did that I do not know.
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Offline Robinred

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2013, 10:51:26 pm »
HBHR just posted (not verbatim) the essence of my post so I'll not have to bother too much about detail.

Sterling's performance, above all, was for me the most exciting. First because he is still just 19 (and only just). Second because as has been said above, the raw but undoubted football intelligence he displayed marks him out as not another in a long line of nippy English-born wingers.

Henderson's display definitely does answer the O.P's question: without S.G (on Hendo's own admission, his hero) he was - despite any complicity by way of Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas's chronically inept tactical display - much more assured and mature.

Joe was fantastic and he is a very accomplished footballer.

Sahko's precision passing to feet is a joy; the fact that he's prepared to put himself under pressure (in other words not just lump it when pressed) in order to accomplish it is very impressive. A very good acquisition.

Martin and Glen. Agree with the detractors; The sheer lack of football ability (rabbit in headlights springs to mind) of the former, and the sheer sloppiness and poor decision making of the latter, hopefully mean solutions are forthcoming. If they are not, then B.R is not the man we are beginning to see him as, and increasingly expect him to be.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 10:56:17 pm by Robinred »
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2013, 10:56:44 pm »
It was a taste of things to come yes, but as I said in the post-match- not wanting to sour the mood then.. there were 2 problems and I'd mention it here(well 1, but it happened twice).

For their first corner, they quite easily beat us to a header(think it was Sandro); and then(I think it's their 2nd or 3rd, I'm not sure), they HAD ANOTHER FREE HEADER IN A GAPING HOLE- uncontested- in the box.

Thankfully for us- one went wide and the "freebie" for Soldado, just over the crossbar. Nervy moments that could've changed the match, but luck was on our side. For once- everything fell in place- from the media, to the ref, to the pundits(Sky was our stomping ground for once), to the in-match commentators.

Not a near-perfect performance at all. We need to cut this shit out.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:01:57 pm by the_red_pill »
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2013, 10:58:13 pm »
Thanks to Henderson spurs will have no CB's available for their midweek game against West Ham in the cup. Dawson's yellow means he's suspended, and chiriches, vertonghen and kaboul are injured... If only that was a league fixture!

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2013, 11:00:06 pm »
It was a taste of things to come yes, but as I said in the post-match- not wanting to sour the mood then.. there were 2 problems and I'd mention it here(well 1, but it happened twice).

For their first corner, they beat us to a header; and then(I think it's their 2nd or 3rd, I'm not sure), they HAD ANOTHER FREE HEADER- uncontested- in the box.

Thankfully for us- one went wide and the other just over the crossbar. Nervy moments that could've changed the match, but luck was on our side. For once- everything fell in place- from the media, to the ref,to the pundits, to the in-match commentators.

Not a near-perfect performance at all. We need to cut this shit out.

Agree, it's really only set pieces and our general sloppiness in possession in the defensive third that's caused us issues recently. Need to sort it out.

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2013, 11:01:23 pm »
hbhr- brilliant post. For me, Sterling was the standout player as well, and you summed it up perfectly. And good comparison with Lennon, who was also on the pitch yesterday apparently. If he can even match Walcott's output though, I'd be happy - think Walcott got close to 30 goals+assists last season.
Fair call on Walcott. He is a one-dimensional speedster, but he's honed that one dimension into having a very sharp cutting edge indeed, but then if Sterling's lacked one thing consistently so far it's simple composure in front of goal. It took Walcott plenty of time to aquire that and he's got less talent in his locker than Sterling does, I think. What it does show Sterling though, in terms of an example, is that of hard work and not resting on your laurels - you can always improve, and also with Dr Peters at the club the value of mentality. Walcott seems like quite a mentally strong player now which might have a lot to do with him rinsing every last drop out of the talent he has.
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2013, 11:01:24 pm »
I felt there were a few negatives.....our set piece delivery was bad, worse than bad it was abysmal. We were a little shaky playing it out from the back Skrtel to Mignolet and Sakho to Mignolet gave us a few heart flutters. I thought Chadlie had the better of Johnson in the first half too. But these were minor and it was the most complete performance I can remember, I agree with Baz; not since Real Madrid 4-0 have I felt such a party atmosphere watching a game.

The development of Flanagan has to be a highlight. He's not got the gifts in his game that Johnson has but what he has is a superb mentality and focus. His timing is first class and aggression on the pitch I think is more likely to pay dividends than cost us if we continue to press further up the field. So often he's coming out a meeting a player with an incisive tackle and that's starting off a lot of counter attacks. Really impressed with his positioning and the timing of his runs against quality opposition. His finish against Spurs too was a thing of beauty. I've gone from terrified to intrigued with Flanno at left back in a very short amount of time.

Do we think Henderson maybe feels unshackled by absence of Gerrard?
For all the talk of Henderson being shackled by Gerrard or in his shadow I thought that performance was very reminiscent of his game against Newcastle where the two of them linked up particularly well. Like the Newcastle game I think it's simply a case of Henderson having very distinctive strengths and this game giving him the platform to showcase them.


Do we think Sterling is perhaps just beginning to get it?
I think to some extent he got it the second he arrived in the first team. It was remarkable for someone so young and only fatigue/injury stopped him. This season while he hasn't had a lot of game time he looks to have furthered his development and fighting past Aspas, Moses and Alberto has shown character.  Next he'll be eyeing Henderson or Sturridge's places!

What I did like in this game was the improvements in his end product, he took his goal well but also played a sublime cross field pass to Coutinho for the 2nd goal and the opportunity he created for Sakho at the back post after beating Naughton was a bit of brilliance. In fact his whole game was super impressive highlighted by Naughton's half time subing.
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2013, 11:05:32 pm »
Do we think Henderson maybe feels unshackled by absence of Gerrard?

I think it was just a perfect storm. A mix of the lad playing very well and Spurs being the perfect team for him to play against. His strength is his running off the ball and his energy. Spurs left oceans of space for him to run into and he absolutely annihilated them. I've said it already, but I think Henderson's performance yesterday was exactly the sort of performance Spurs fans were probably expecting from their own identikit midfielders. He out-Spurs'd them. They've got all of these big, physical units, and you could hear them creaking like shipping containers being loaded on to a freighter as they turned to see Henderson running off the back of them again. He absolutely killed them. Give him the space and he can have the games where he looks outstanding. Spurs did everything they could to provide him with a platform, and it's to Henderson's immense credit that he actually stepped up to it. We have half a dozen of these games every season where you expect someone to step out of a big players shadow and really take a game by the scruff of the neck and they mostly go by unnoticed. A year later the circumstances are completely forgotten about because no one did shit. Henderson pimp-slapped Spurs' midfield something fierce.


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Do we think Sterling is perhaps justbeginning to get it?

Get what? He's always been a very good prospect. I've said before I think he'll end up being one of the best players in the league at some point. I watched him with the U18s and the ressies and he stood out comfortable above the others. Above Suso who is doing so well in La Liga, above Wisdom and Robinson who are doing so well in the Championship. Even above Ince for the brief period they were in the same team. Borrell built the younger age groups around giving the ball to Sterling. When he's played for England U21s until recently with Ravel Morrison, within 15 minutes England will decide to start playing the ball to him more often than any other attacker. Doesn't matter if it's Ince, Redmond or Zaha on the other flank. There were a handful of attacking players who stood out as much as him when we played their youth or reserve teams. One was Morrison, another plays for our reserves now, another plays for Sporting B and seems to have not kicked on, and the other two have both been regular-ish goalscorers for Ajax. 

I'm not one for this "Champ manager/playstation generation" tagging, because it's patronizing and lazy as fuck. I do think it's an issue with some younger players though. Young player has developed 4 years in 3 weeks of the game, and then people are frustrate that he's just 3 weeks older and wiser in the real world and hasn't suddenly got a Cruyffian grasp of the game.

He got a lot of unfair criticism after the Hull game, but next to no one mentioned it was his first time on the pitch in 6 weeks. He didn't get a minute on the pitch in all of November. I think that maybe illustrates where the issue is. He needs to be playing games to develop. This run during Sturridge's injury is looking to be proving good for us to see whether he should be playing those games at Liverpool or elsewhere in the Premiership this season. Hopefully this will shut up some of the absolute tits trying to make out he isn't some sort of prospect though, or blaming everything on his new contract.

On the actual game, I genuinely thought he was the best player on the pitch first half. Overall MOTM will probably go to Suarez or Henderson, but the first half he absolutely ruined them. Great vision for the ball for the 2nd goal and some of the slips through that ended in less spectacular fashion. He had Naughton down the line any time he wanted to try it too, and then made sure he did the exact same thing to Fryers when he came on as if to let him know the reality of the situation. He deserved an assist for the sitter he set up for Sakho. He should probably have had another goal but was let down by his 2nd touch getting caught under his feet. The thing that'll get him there though is that it's only his own mistakes that can make him lose the ball once he gets going. Reminds very much of Hazard in that regard. Once he gets moving with the ball and running across players then it's only he himself that can stop him by fair means. I can't recall seeing a player fouled so regularly at under 18s or ressies football. He got some real treatment. He did it in the build up to his goal yesterday. Immediately shot for the gap, carrying the ball at speed, ran into a player and lost the ball. Thankfully Alberto was alert, and so was Sterling to continue his run off the back of the Spurs defender.

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Do we wish we could play them like that every week...

Not really. Don't think there's a club in the country bar their north london neighbours that it takes so little for the press to start fellating them. Absolutely loved putting them back in their box.

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Johnson was perhaps the weakest player on the field, and him and Sakho gave me the jitters occasionally, but otherwise what a lovely treat.

Sakho? Really?! Only time that lad would give me jitters is if I saw him walking towards me in a dark alley. He's a monolith of a defender in waiting.
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2013, 11:05:43 pm »
Thanks to Henderson spurs will have no CB's available for their midweek game against West Ham in the cup. Dawson's yellow means he's suspended, and chiriches, vertonghen and kaboul are injured... If only that was a league fixture!
Thoroughly humiliated, broken to pieces and then laughed at. Now they're going to be used by their next 2 opponents as something to wipe the floor with(WHU and Southampton- oh oh!).

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2013, 11:05:55 pm »
Thanks to Henderson spurs will have no CB's available for their midweek game against West Ham in the cup. Dawson's yellow means he's suspended, and chiriches, vertonghen and kaboul are injured... If only that was a league fixture!

They're in a spot of bother. Sandro will likely not play for a week or two given he was subbed off injured. Paulinho will get a 3 match ban for his red which doesn't leave a lot of midfield options either.
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Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2013, 11:06:58 pm »
Just a point on Sakho as well - he also really played a part in dismantling the pressing Spurs' started with. He's got the composure and ability on the ball to exploit the spaces left if teams press high. That ability to thread a ball through to a half open player, even direct to the forwards is invaluable under pressure, and he isn't afraid to pass it to a player with a marker near him, and often does so with the understanding/expectation of getting it back, and he'll run with it if there's space. That's the big contrast with Skrtel, he won't run with it unless there's no-one within 20 yards, he won't pass through a gap less than 10 yards wide, and he doesn't seem to feel comfortable passing to anyone with an opponent within 5 yards of him, a situation in which Skrtel, 9/10, passes back to goal, Sakho, very regularly, turns into a dangerous position for us. It's especially important because Mignolet has poor distribution (with his feet anyway, his throws aren't bad at all) - it compounds the problem because passing to our 'keeper doesn't relieve pressure or potentially set up an attack as it used to.
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Offline BazC

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2013, 11:13:03 pm »
Fair call on Walcott. He is a one-dimensional speedster, but he's honed that one dimension into having a very sharp cutting edge indeed, but then if Sterling's lacked one thing consistently so far it's simple composure in front of goal. It took Walcott plenty of time to aquire that and he's got less talent in his locker than Sterling does, I think. What it does show Sterling though, in terms of an example, is that of hard work and not resting on your laurels - you can always improve, and also with Dr Peters at the club the value of mentality. Walcott seems like quite a mentally strong player now which might have a lot to do with him rinsing every last drop out of the talent he has.

Sure, and the thing with Walcott is that he's been around for years. Was pretty much thrust into the thick of it from his World Cup inclusion and move to Arsenal as a youngster, and that was 7-8 years ago. So he's had plenty of time to get that strength mentally, know what it takes to play for a club like Arsenal, and last year he seemed to take his chances when he got them. He's an important player for them now.

And that's the key thing with Raheem. He's got the talent, quite clearly. But he'll have to back it up with the mental strength - working hard to improve in training, having the confidence to express himself and like Walcott, squeeze every drop of performance out of his talent. And there have been more talented players than both Walcott and Sterling who have failed because they perhaps didn't have that edge mentally. And I think there have been less talented players than them both who have done. 

Cool mention of Dr Peters too. I remember reading Allen's words in a Guardian article on the weekend, he was talking about mentality following the Everton miss and mentioned Peters. We saw yesterday how he hasn't been dwelling on it! Rodgers may have pulled off a massive coup getting him to work with the players. Perhaps we should have gotten an exclusivity clause there somewhere, no doubt half the league will be looking at him if we're still near the top of the league come March/April! 

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2013, 11:13:33 pm »
Sakho? Really?! Only time that lad would give me jitters is if I saw him walking towards me in a dark alley. He's a monolith of a defender in waiting.

Superb post and agree with all I cut out but I did feel a bit nervous when Sakho lofted the ball back to Mignolet (Soldado's disallowed goal) and there were a few back passes in general that put Mignolet under pressure. For me it's more the putting Mignolet under pressure bit that had me nervy.
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2013, 11:35:46 pm »
when it was 2- 0 I still thought we could lose 3-2. Granted we looked like we could and should have scored every time we attacked but they had some very decent chances. A goal for them to make it 2-1 and things could have finished very differently.  I dont like it when the scoreline becomes the commentary. The result is magnificent, the pressing, the youth of the side but the scoreline hides a lot of faults and some of the guff on here is very ott.

our set piece defence was still poor, Johnson and Sakho had poor games, Spurs took control either side of half time despite the shambles they had at the back  - we were far from perfect.

Henderson, Suarez and Allen played very well. Sterling played ok but come on first half he left Johnson exposed again and again and wasted several balls going forward by making poor decisions.

Fantastic result, good performance helped and flattered by the sending off which led to Spurs giving up.
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2013, 11:40:07 pm »
when it was 2- 0 I still thought we could lose 3-2. Granted we looked like we could and should have scored every time we attacked but they had some very decent chances. A goal for them to make it 2-1 and things could have finished very differently.  I dont like it when the scoreline becomes the commentary. The result is magnificent, the pressing, the youth of the side but the scoreline hides a lot of faults and some of the guff on here is very ott.

our set piece defence was still poor, Johnson and Sakho had poor games, Spurs took control either side of half time despite the shambles they had at the back  - we were far from perfect.

Henderson, Suarez and Allen played very well. Sterling played ok but come on first half he left Johnson exposed again and again and wasted several balls going forward by making poor decisions.

Fantastic result, good performance helped and flattered by the sending off which led to Spurs giving up.

Can't agree with the Sterling bit. Chadle beat Johnson one on one a lot but I don't remember once seeing Johnson "exposed" with an overlap from Naughton. I'm firmly in the Sterling MOTM in the first half camp. Sakho should have score Suarez could have scored from two half chances and he was involved in both the goals to get us 2-0 up.
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2013, 11:50:21 pm »
when it was 2- 0 I still thought we could lose 3-2. Granted we looked like we could and should have scored every time we attacked but they had some very decent chances. A goal for them to make it 2-1 and things could have finished very differently.  I dont like it when the scoreline becomes the commentary. The result is magnificent, the pressing, the youth of the side but the scoreline hides a lot of faults and some of the guff on here is very ott.

our set piece defence was still poor, Johnson and Sakho had poor games, Spurs took control either side of half time despite the shambles they had at the back  - we were far from perfect.

Henderson, Suarez and Allen played very well. Sterling played ok but come on first half he left Johnson exposed again and again and wasted several balls going forward by making poor decisions.

Fantastic result, good performance helped and flattered by the sending off which led to Spurs giving up.

Not even sure how you can quantify that? He was imperious in defense, I'll accept he was a bit nervy with the ball and played some very risky passes at times, but poor? Come on, he was by far the best defender we had on the pitch.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2013, 11:50:31 pm »
Just a point on Sakho as well - he also really played a part in dismantling the pressing Spurs' started with. He's got the composure and ability on the ball to exploit the spaces left if teams press high. That ability to thread a ball through to a half open player, even direct to the forwards is invaluable under pressure, and he isn't afraid to pass it to a player with a marker near him, and often does so with the understanding/expectation of getting it back, and he'll run with it if there's space. That's the big contrast with Skrtel, he won't run with it unless there's no-one within 20 yards, he won't pass through a gap less than 10 yards wide, and he doesn't seem to feel comfortable passing to anyone with an opponent within 5 yards of him, a situation in which Skrtel, 9/10, passes back to goal, Sakho, very regularly, turns into a dangerous position for us. It's especially important because Mignolet has poor distribution (with his feet anyway, his throws aren't bad at all) - it compounds the problem because passing to our 'keeper doesn't relieve pressure or potentially set up an attack as it used to.

It would be interesting to see Sakho play against Southampton later this season to see how he handles the high press. My guess is that he'll handle it better than Agger/Skrtel did at anfield (I think that was the pairing that day). Maybe a Sakho/Agger combo would be good to help us play out from the back, with Allen instead of Gerrard sitting.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2013, 11:53:56 pm »
when it was 2- 0 I still thought we could lose 3-2. Granted we looked like we could and should have scored every time we attacked but they had some very decent chances. A goal for them to make it 2-1 and things could have finished very differently.  I dont like it when the scoreline becomes the commentary. The result is magnificent, the pressing, the youth of the side but the scoreline hides a lot of faults and some of the guff on here is very ott.

our set piece defence was still poor, Johnson and Sakho had poor games, Spurs took control either side of half time despite the shambles they had at the back  - we were far from perfect.

Henderson, Suarez and Allen played very well. Sterling played ok but come on first half he left Johnson exposed again and again and wasted several balls going forward by making poor decisions.

Fantastic result, good performance helped and flattered by the sending off which led to Spurs giving up.

We needed the third goal to officially kill the game. Shame Sakho missed his header in the 48th minute as that would have spared some anxiousness, but then again it was all set up nicely for Flanagan to blow the roof off in the 75th so it was probably worth the wait!

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2013, 12:01:26 am »
when it was 2- 0 I still thought we could lose 3-2. Granted we looked like we could and should have scored every time we attacked but they had some very decent chances. A goal for them to make it 2-1 and things could have finished very differently.  I dont like it when the scoreline becomes the commentary. The result is magnificent, the pressing, the youth of the side but the scoreline hides a lot of faults and some of the guff on here is very ott.
Yes and no. I totally agree that there were big turning points - chances missed, what looked a nailed on penalty and the sending off of course. On the other hand they had 0 shots on target and really very few dangerous moments considering their quality and home advantage, and the sending off itself was both absolutely justified and still something you need to take advantage of, which we did absolutely brilliantly. Sure it did lead to them giving up at 2-0 but it looked like they'd lost 2 men after that - we utterly dismantled their 10 while still playing well within ourselves.

More importantly in terms of your point though is that at 2-0 we also looked very, very dangerous on the break, and missed an absolute sitter of our own with Sakho's chance. For all that it could perhaps have turned to a 3-2, on the balance of play and chances I can't help but feel that potential 2-1 could also very easily have turned into a comprehensive 3-1 or 4-2 or 5-2 or whatever.

That said I absolutely agree that we shouldn't ignore those negatives either - especially as there are things there that have been regular features, not just the product of a particular player(s) having an uncharactaristic off day.
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2013, 12:29:13 am »
I must admit that I was a bit concerned about Flanagan.

No not in his general play but when when Sakho piled onto the growing scrum after his goal. I thought Flanno would be like the Wicked Witch of the East when the house fell on her.

(Sorry......get back to discussing the match seriously).
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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2013, 12:48:58 am »
We looked like Liverpool in the late 80's the way we kept hold of the ball.  Spurs were chasing shadows (to use a well worn out cliche but the best description of what happened) for most of the game.  The passing and movement were sublime at times and Suarez was lethal up front and kept causing them problems (although he should have put away one or two more chances if we want to be harsh).

There will be a massive uptick in confidence throughout the whole team going into the next (very crucial) game.  I think it is obvious that all of the players now buy into BR style of football and they all looked like they were really enjoying it.  Sometimes, it reminds me of the Evans era because we are still very vulnerable at the back but if we keep hold of the ball like that for long periods of the game, it's very hard for the opposition to establish any kind of rhythm or counter play.

The negatives are that Mignolet is still not great when it comes to distribution, we are shakey (to put it mildly) at defending set-pieces.  I think Spurs had a few free headers in the box from corners that could have changed the result considerably had they been on target. 

The positives -- well, there were so many of them.  The anticipation from Allen and Lucas to break up the Spurs attacks and win the ball back for us, Flanagan showing that he can do more than a decent job for us at LB, Sakho immense in the centre, Suarez his usual brillant self, Coutinho a good solid game, Henderson beginning to shine and scoring a key goal.  We were just a joy to watch for long periods of the game.  If we play like that against Cardiff, we will go into the city game in a great position.  I just hope that we can keep the run going.  No complacency needed right now.     

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2013, 12:50:08 am »
Just re-watching bits of the match. How boss is it how much we were pressing even after the 3rd goal? When we smell blood, we absolutely feast, and it seems like we smelled blood from the kick-off. Credit to the teams mentality, and the areas in which Rodgers must have told them they could win by, think it all contributed to a supreme performance absolutely full of self-belief.

To win 5-0 away at Spurs with our recent record there is absolutely unbelievable really. I don't care what you say about AVB, for the most part, they've been very hard to play against while he's been there. They were not hard to play against in the slightest. Even against City, I don't think they were as completely outplayed as they were on Sunday. Someone asked me about the match and I said we played as well as Spurs played badly - and they were shocking.

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2013, 12:59:39 am »
Favourite moment of the game: spurs fan shouting 'handball' when Mignolet left the box and chested the ball down after one of our corners was cleared to him 2nd half.

You can tell their fans have gotten used to favourable poor referee decisions by how frequently they clutch at straws like that :)

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2013, 01:01:18 am »
It was a taste of things to come yes, but as I said in the post-match- not wanting to sour the mood then.. there were 2 problems and I'd mention it here(well 1, but it happened twice).

For their first corner, they quite easily beat us to a header(think it was Sandro); and then(I think it's their 2nd or 3rd, I'm not sure), they HAD ANOTHER FREE HEADER IN A GAPING HOLE- uncontested- in the box.

Thankfully for us- one went wide and the "freebie" for Soldado, just over the crossbar. Nervy moments that could've changed the match, but luck was on our side. For once- everything fell in place- from the media, to the ref, to the pundits(Sky was our stomping ground for once), to the in-match commentators.

Not a near-perfect performance at all. We need to cut this shit out.

Limiting Spurs at home to a header (missed), soldado half chance shot over the bar and a Holtby shot that misses by a yard is pretty much a perfect performance defensively. We are playing another EPL team away and not RAWK all star team weighing a combined 10,000 lb, most of it beer.
If you find issues with yesterday's performance then I am at a loss.
Against Everton, Hull, Arsenal, Souhampton and Swansea we bad issues. Lets not look for them where there are none.

Offline Danny_

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2013, 01:04:25 am »
Limiting Spurs at home to a header (missed), soldado half chance shot over the bar and a Holtby shot that misses by a yard is pretty much a perfect performance defensively. We are playing another EPL team away and not RAWK all star team weighing a combined 10,000 lb, most of it beer.
If you find issues with yesterday's performance then I am at a loss.
Against Everton, Hull, Arsenal, Souhampton and Swansea we bad issues. Lets not look for them where there are none.
Not really mate.  All you have to do is look at Spurs goals for of +15 (many of those dodgy penalties) and you realize how shit they are in attack.  Compare it with the goals for stat for other teams in the PL and they are very average.  Once we went a goal up, it was always going to be very hard for them.   They have little or no creativity up front and this was not helped by the decision to leave one of the only players they have that can beat their man in Townsend on the bench.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2013, 01:08:08 am »
Limiting Spurs at home to a header (missed), soldado half chance shot over the bar and a Holtby shot that misses by a yard is pretty much a perfect performance defensively. We are playing another EPL team away and not RAWK all star team weighing a combined 10,000 lb, most of it beer.
If you find issues with yesterday's performance then I am at a loss.
Against Everton, Hull, Arsenal, Souhampton and Swansea we bad issues. Lets not look for them where there are none.

There's always room for improvement, even when you win 5-0 against Spurs. That's exactly what Brendan Rodgers will be telling his team, and rightfully so.

With a bad bounce or decision the game is 2-1 and anything can happen. Although we played amazingly we were also fortunate that Jon Moss had a perfect game and that Chadlis wide open header missed at 1-0, so I have to agree there were still defensive questions, even though I will also agree with you that that was as good a performance any team could ever expect to give at WHL.

Offline woof

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2013, 01:14:04 am »
when it was 2- 0 I still thought we could lose 3-2. Granted we looked like we could and should have scored every time we attacked but they had some very decent chances. A goal for them to make it 2-1 and things could have finished very differently.  I dont like it when the scoreline becomes the commentary. The result is magnificent, the pressing, the youth of the side but the scoreline hides a lot of faults and some of the guff on here is very ott.

our set piece defence was still poor, Johnson and Sakho had poor games, Spurs took control either side of half time despite the shambles they had at the back  - we were far from perfect.

It's true how a goal can change things. Johnson allowed Spurs the opportunity to get even when we scored the first 2 goals. Fortunately for us, Chadli's cross found no one and Holtby's shot was off target. Football is like that sometimes. It can be cruel and fun, depending which side of the draw you get.

We have two important tests coming up and let's see if we can replicate the result and performance

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2013, 02:18:59 am »
Watching the 2nd half again now and noticed a few things that i don't think have been mentioned before:

- Soldados chance that he shot over originated from a poor attempted headed pass by Sakho under no pressure. Needs to be careful not to be too cute at times.
- Flanagan was exposed twice in the first 15 mins. The first time Lennon danced around him but thankfully Lucas was in a great position so Lennon ran it out of play. The second time holtby took the quick free kick and Paulinho drove towards our area. Flanagan felt he needed to help Sakho inside but instead by coming inside he opened a massive channel for Lennon to receive a pass in before crossing (when Skrtel tugs at Soldado which could have been a pen). Small details but moments like that are what wins and loses games.
- Johnson did quite a poor job blocking crosses.
- in one instance Chadli bypasses Johnson with a pass to holtby on the left who is covered by Lucas so it goes out for a corner. The key thing to note is that Skrtel was very close to Johnson so if holtby had crossed Skrtel would have been way out of position (outside the box even). Again, fortunate that Lucas covered so well around the area in between the fullback and centre back. Don't think Lucas gets enough credit for how effective he is in those situations (compare it to how Sylla stranded Luna time and time again for villa vs united and you'll see what a massive difference it makes, even if you don't pay attention to it when watching live).
- free kicks inside their half we took short, apparently BR prefers to keep possession when we don't have Gerrard swinging them in instead of someone else taking them.
- the timing of the red card was perfect, as spurs had been upping the tempo (62% possession 2nd half up to then, compared with us having it 57% total)

Post-red-card
- until the red our press was dropped down to just inside the halfway line, whereas immediately afterwards the high press returns, with Suarez and Henderson leading the charge up top. That was key to peg them back. Hungry dogs!
- Henderson also helped Flanagan double up on Lennon when needed, good to see.
- Lucas dropped in nicely between the CBs to help pass out of defense to great effect
- So many times the spurs player in possession loses control when pressed by Hendo only for Allen to nip in and make a quick one touch pass forward to counter. This was so so effective throughout the game, basically a 1-2 pressing punch
- I still smile each time I see Flanagans goal. Immense. And that dogpile!
- Johnson gets faked so easily by Townsend, surprised he fell for such easy tricks time and time again
- Hendo sat back more when Lucas went off, with Allen taking the distributor role (dropping in between the CBs) in Lucas's absence.
- Coutinho missed several simple through balls. Poor by his standards
- even though he was poor on the ball many times, I think mignolet has improved his distribution on the whole and started picking out his fullbacks with lofted passes when he wasn't under intense pressure as he was every time he received a pass first half. I think the main issue is that a lot of the time the CB's put him under pressure by insisting on back passes when they aren't always the best option, hence the panicky moments. He's improving though for sure.
- Aveebee's face when Suarez lobs Lloris is priceless!
- loved that we kept attacking when it was 4-0 :)
- sterlings drive from deep in midfield really showed he deserved his goal.but why does Sterling put his hand over his face every time he scores?! :p
- the game fittingly ended with us keeping the ball for the entirety of 3mins of stoppage time, from a throw in at 90:00 until 93:00, completing 62 (!!!) consecutive passes which almost culminated in Moses' pass across goal that Flanagan almost tapped in.


PS. Love the casual ball-scratching Hendo does on national tv when asked about his goal right after the game :p
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 03:04:43 am by rickardinho1 »

Offline ElstonGunn

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2013, 02:19:51 am »
when it was 2- 0 I still thought we could lose 3-2. Granted we looked like we could and should have scored every time we attacked but they had some very decent chances. A goal for them to make it 2-1 and things could have finished very differently.  I dont like it when the scoreline becomes the commentary. The result is magnificent, the pressing, the youth of the side but the scoreline hides a lot of faults and some of the guff on here is very ott.

our set piece defence was still poor, Johnson and Sakho had poor games, Spurs took control either side of half time despite the shambles they had at the back  - we were far from perfect.

Henderson, Suarez and Allen played very well. Sterling played ok but come on first half he left Johnson exposed again and again and wasted several balls going forward by making poor decisions.

Fantastic result, good performance helped and flattered by the sending off which led to Spurs giving up.
I really disagree. These criticisms could be levelled at virtually any team in any game ever, especially between two decent sides. You can't expect to hold another top 4 contender to absolutely no decent chances. When Spurs dominated the 20 minutes between the 1st and 2nd goal against City (including Lamela missing an open net) did you afterward say that the result flattered City and hid a lot of faults? If you did, fair dos, but then you're basically expecting the teams to be Bayern Munich.

That's as good a performance you'll see an away side put on against a good team all season in the PL. Seriously. You won't see one better. I saw on twitter that it was the biggest disparity in clear cut chances between two sides all season. We held them to zero shots on target at home, and only seven shots, and they take about as many shots as anyone in the league. We dominated every aspect of the match. There wasn't a single period of the match where we weren't the more dangerous side (the two periods either side of half time, where you think they controlled the match, included the second goal, Sakho missing an absolute sitter, and numerous other good opportunities).  And it's worth repeating that we were away against the side that many of us saw as our biggest threat to getting into the Champions League. As poor as they were, we were hardly playing Norwich at home.

As for Sterling, your standards are just totally unrealistic again. He's not superman. We were playing an extremely aggressive, very effective pressing game--through which Sterling helped create the first goal. The obvious downside to having your wide players press high is that they can't double up on the other side's wingers if they get the ball in transitions. Whenever Chadli looked dangerous, it was because he got the ball quickly and squared up Johnson before Sterling could retreat. We can agree on that. But the reason was that Sterling's aggressive positioning simply made doing both impossible. Are you really going to hold that against Sterling (or Rodgers, who told him to do it)? And, as Dan points out, it wasn't like Sterling was letting Naughton get involved on the overlap.

It was an incredible performance. As others have said, the result genuinely flattered them, not us.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 02:21:22 am by ElstonGunn »

Offline Gigantic Lamb

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Re: Rawk round table THFC 0-5 LFC
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2013, 02:26:03 am »
Watching the 2nd half again now and noticed a few things that i don't think have been mentioned before:

- Soldados chance that he shot over originated from a poor attempted headed pass by Sakho nude no pressure. Needs to be careful not to be too cute at times.
- Flanagan was exposed twice in the first 15 mins. The first time Lennon danced around him but thankfully Lucas was in a great position so Lennon ran it out of play. The second time holtby took the quick free kick and Paulinho drove towards our area. Flanagan felt he needed to help Sakho inside but instead by coming inside he opened a massive channel for Lennon to receive a pass in before crossing (when Skrtel tugs at Soldado which could have been a pen). Small details but moments like that are what wins and loses games.
- Johnson did quite a poor job blocking crosses.
- in one instance Chadli bypasses Johnson with a pass to holtby on the left who is covered by Lucas so it goes out for a corner. The key thing to note is that Skrtel was very close to Johnson so if holtby had crossed Skrtel would have been way out of position (outside the box even). Again, fortunate that Lucas covered so well around the area in between the fullback and centre back. Don't think Lucas gets enough credit for how effective he is in those situations (compare it to how Sylla stranded Luna time and time again for villa vs united and you'll see what a massive difference it makes, even if you don't pay attention to it when watching live).
- free kicks inside their half we took short, apparently BR prefers to keep possession when we don't have Gerrard swinging them in instead of someone else taking them.
- the timing of the red card was perfect, as spurs had been upping the tempo (62% possession 2nd half up to then, compared with us having it 57% total)


Very good post,

alot of which is lost in the joy of the win.

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