Author Topic: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?  (Read 9529 times)

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We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« on: October 26, 2012, 04:43:48 pm »
Though John, Paul, George and Ringo might be the most famous quartet to come out of Liverpool, they have competition in terms of receiving the most affection from the locals. Step forward Xabi, Javier, Mohamed and Steven.

It may not roll off the tongue as gracefully, but the collective of Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano, Mohamed Sissoko and Steven Gerrard achieved rockstar status at Liverpool. They were known by Liverpool supporters as the best midfield in the world – a gushing claim, sung loudly to anyone who would listen.

It was a boast that may not have been entirely true: Barcelona had Yaya Touré, Xavi and Andrés Iniesta; Chelsea’s offering of Claude Makelele, Michael Essien and Frank Lampard was also impressive. But Liverpool supporters still had a compelling point.

The midfield four was created in February 2007 when Mascherano joined the club, and abruptly ended just 11 months later when Sissoko was sold to Juventus. In that time, the club reached a Champions League final and lost just five league games – two of those sandwiching a victorious Champions League semi-final against Chelsea.

It was the perfect medley. Mascherano had the tenacity – wearing his heart on his sleeve and his lungs as a waistcoat – while Alonso complemented the Argentinian’s legwork with artistry. Sissoko, fourth in line, was akin to an Energizer bunny. At the apex was Gerrard, at the peak of his powers.

Liverpool’s midfield of 2007 wasn’t just about the individual talent – it was about what it represented, too. Here stood four midfielders at different stages of their career, their presence at Anfield the envy of every club in Europe. Three would move on to Juventus, Real Madrid and Barcelona; the fourth could have taken his pick from any of the three. Their dominance on the field reflected the club’s re-emergence as one of the best sides in Europe.

But with Liverpool’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, looking to fund mounting debt repayments, the vultures began to circle. Sissoko’s departure was not felt too keenly with Lucas Leiva being groomed for a first-team role, even if the supporters took time to agree. But it was the losses of Alonso and Mascherano within 12 months that prompted the realisation of the Reds’ decline, alongside the deterioration of Gerrard’s fitness.

Liverpool’s midfield has struggled a lot since Mascherano’s departure, with Lucas’ emergence as a midfield general the only progression. Raul Meireles, Alberto Aquilani and Charlie Adam have spun through Anfield’s revolving door, while Jay Spearing has finally been deemed a Championship player. Though Kenny Dalglish brought Liverpool their first trophy for six years, it sometimes felt little consolation for having to watch a half-fit Gerrard and Adam partnership in central midfield.

Rafael Benítez had two-and-a-half years to build his midfield, time neither Roy Hodgson nor Kenny Dalglish were granted. But new manager Brendan Rodgers has wasted little time in addressing the problem. Out went Adam and Spearing; in their places came Joe Allen and Nuri Sahin (above), two players who regard the relinquishing of possession as a crime against football. Rodgers also sought to promote Jonjo Shelvey to play at the tip of a midfield three, and strived to integrate the ageing Gerrard into his style of play. Central to all that is Lucas. The Brazilian, once an ugly duckling but now an established international, is integral to how the midfield operates.

With Lucas set to return from injury soon, Rodgers will have strong midfield options at his disposal. Like Benítez’s midfield of 2007, his will be one that can control a game, with Lucas and Allen rarely giving the ball away. Sahin and Shelvey both look dangerous getting forward, while Gerrard has adapted his game accordingly.

It may not be the best midfield in the world. It’s not even the best midfield in England – yet. But aside from Gerrard, Rodgers’ midfield has an average age of 22. If the club can keep the on-loan Sahin, and keep progressing, it might not be long before they are. For now, Liverpool fans will be content in having a midfield they can be proud of again.

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Offline BazC

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2012, 03:20:16 pm »
Rafa built an amazing thing when he put those players together. Alonso, Sissoko and Mascherano brought in (relatively inexpensively compared to even the market those days) to complement Gerrard. In my opinion, there was a time when it was genuinely the best midfield in Europe; we'd go into every game expecting total domination.

I can see Rodgers trying to build something similar. With Allen, we have the player who can control the game from midfield with his intelligence; the positioning, the way his passes are dictated not by short sightedness and trying to force the ball forward, but by realising that a short pass sideways or backwards can be as effective as a 40yard cross field one. With Lucas we have the tenacity and tidiness in front of defence to break up play and bring it back into our control. There are expectations of those 2 being the Mascherano-Alonso partnership (which in my opinion, was at least as crucial to our team in those days as the frighteningly effective Torres and Gerrard one). Lucas and Allen haven't had much time together on the field, but the talent is there.

In Shelvey, we have that drive from midfield. The all rounder; tenacity, intelligence, aggression and an eye for goal (or at least, what looks like one in these early days). He'll be the advanced midfielder who can really drive the momentum from our midfield to the forward players and it's a crucial role in that midfield. Sahin looks like he can slot in there or Allen's role - and his vocal style hints at a player who can lead a midfield and organise it to control games.

They may not be as accomplished as their counterparts from yesteryear, but they're young and they're learning about their own skills as well as each others. There's so much room for improvement and development there. Which is promising because from the little we've seen from them already, it's hard not to be impressed.

Our manager's putting together a promising team and at the heart of it is this midfield, which will carry through his vision. The near term challenges are making sure they develop their talents to the fullest and keeping them together. Then hopefully we'll be able to sing a song like it again in the near future.
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2012, 03:57:17 am »
I'd also like to add to your splendid OP an honourable mention for Jordan Henderson. I think he is a more well rounded version of Momo. He doesn't quite have Momo's athleticism and his almost go-go gadget legs. What he does have over Momo is the ability to play football. As well as a terrific athelete in his own right, Henderson is also capable of passing the ball about as well as almost anybody else at the club (Sahin and Allen probably being the exceptions). He also packs some power into his shots.

What has let him down so far has been end product, which I wonder if that is a direct result of his self confidence problems. All these things we have seen from him in glimpses... the through passes, almost Gerrard like crosses, beautifully struck shots... we need to see more often. He seems to be almost playing within himself at the moment. I do really believe we have an awesome player on our hands and we just need to nurture it a little to reap the rewards, much like Lucas Leiva.

One thing he always brings though is energy. He is probably our most energetic midfielder and is tireless in his efforts to close players down. The frequency he wins back the ball doing so is also important to how Rodgers wants us to play. Especially when we start counter attacks high up the pitch.

I have to agree, the future does look bright in midfield especially with Mourinho seemingly open to selling Sahin now. Lucas, Allen, Sahin, Gerrard, Shelvey, Henderson.I also see Suso moving into a more central area once he is an established first teamer to be our own Silva/Cazorla. They are some options to have before we even looking at those coming through the U21 side at the moment like Lussey.
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2012, 08:47:16 am »
I did mention Henderson but sadly fell on to the sub-editor's floor. Hendo is an interesting one isn't he? You could argue the potential is there - he could play in the Lucas, Allen or Shelvey role. Vital versatility - maybe that's what's hampering his chances though? I'm hoping Rodgers is just taking him out of the limelight until New Year after being overplayed last season. He's just 22 after all.

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2012, 10:44:18 am »
I just hope Ayre doesn't dangle him in a part-exchange - Henderson has all the raw tools bar that ability to see in his rear view mirror which may come with coaching, and some more belief.

You'd think developing kids in this area will become more of a priority too.

Great stuff again Kris.

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2012, 12:44:28 pm »
Exciting stuff - moved over to the main forum for discussion :wave

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 12:47:38 pm »
I actually think Henderson would be a quality right back
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Offline Kovai Red

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2012, 12:52:58 pm »
I actually think Henderson would be a quality right back
This is what Shebby Singh exactly said about Gerrard. Henderson will be one of the best midfielders of England in the future if he keeps working like he does now.
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Offline rossipersempre

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2012, 12:59:51 pm »
I just hope Ayre doesn't dangle him in a part-exchange - Henderson has all the raw tools bar that ability to see in his rear view mirror which may come with coaching, and some more belief.
You mean again? And by Ayre you mean on Rodgers instructions? Came perilously close to being a Fulham player let's not forget.

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2012, 01:22:04 pm »
We have a very strong midfield, one of the strongest in the league, and when they click, whether it be now or in a few years, it'll be one of the strongest in the world, provided we manage to keep everyone around. A few interesting parallels with Rafa's famous midfield. The depth is stronger than it ever was under Rafa I think, as we have Lucas, Gerrard, Sahin and Allen who are top class players, and two extremely talented youngsters in Shelvey and Henderson waiting in the wings. Quality-wise, well, give it a few years, and let's see how it is!
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Offline Kovai Red

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2012, 01:33:48 pm »
We have a very strong midfield, one of the strongest in the league, and when they click, whether it be now or in a few years, it'll be one of the strongest in the world, provided we manage to keep everyone around. A few interesting parallels with Rafa's famous midfield. The depth is stronger than it ever was under Rafa I think, as we have Lucas, Gerrard, Sahin and Allen who are top class players, and two extremely talented youngsters in Shelvey and Henderson waiting in the wings. Quality-wise, well, give it a few years, and let's see how it is!
And everyone bar Gerrard is less than 25. That is really exciting
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2012, 01:35:16 pm »
We have a very strong midfield, one of the strongest in the league, and when they click, whether it be now or in a few years, it'll be one of the strongest in the world, provided we manage to keep everyone around. A few interesting parallels with Rafa's famous midfield. The depth is stronger than it ever was under Rafa I think, as we have Lucas, Gerrard, Sahin and Allen who are top class players, and two extremely talented youngsters in Shelvey and Henderson waiting in the wings. Quality-wise, well, give it a few years, and let's see how it is!

Lucas apart, they still lack know how in destroying the opposition's attempts to play through the midfield. Henderson has all the physical and technical attributes, but he's not yet at Lucas's, Mascherano's and Alonso's tactical level. I'm probably alone among the connoisseurs here, but I see the destroyer part of the game as more urgently necessary than the passer part.
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2012, 01:41:28 pm »
great article, nice read, I'm delighted with our midfield options, there's real variety across all 6 midfielders we have competing for those '3' positions
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2012, 01:45:23 pm »
I think if a sub editor got to my posts before they went up here very little would make it to RAWK :D

I'd agree with all that. One of Hendersons problems was that our fanbase in general had lost faith in him. By waiting until he is well versed in Rodgers system before throwing him in full time again protects him somewhat.
I just hope Ayre doesn't dangle him in a part-exchange
The Henderson-Fulham thing is still strange to me. I can only assume that Henderson was offered on a seasons loan which would have really benefited both parties as Henderson would look a world beater there and come back replacing Sahin with our fans holding him in high regards once more. My brain cannot process the idea that he was offered as a permanent transfer so I'm rejecting the idea until I can see something concrete to say otherwise.

Also I think our midfield will look better once Gerrard is taken out of the pecking order. I think all those named offer us more as a central midfielder than Gerrard does. In being Liverpool, Rodgers talk with Shelvey indicates he sees Gerrard´s future further forward. The problem with Gerrard in the center is, as much as he has toned down his desire to force play in the middle, it still happens. I think we would control teams far better with a midfield 3 of Lucas/Allen/Sahin. In fact I really am struggling to think of anybody in the league who could better that trio. Maybe Yaya/Cazorla/Oscar instead of Sahin.

Regardless I love Sahin. I love his late runs into the box and his ability to move past Suarez when he drops deep. He does this better than our two "goalscoring midfielders" Gerrard & Shelvey. I also think Allen will be a different class again when he has Lucas behind him. The few instances we´ve seen him with the ball further forward he has looked quality. I try to imagine what Xavi/Iniesta would be like if they had to cover a long term injury to Busquets. It would really take a lot from their game. This isn´t to say Allen is of the same ability as that pair.... he does look like he would fit the same mould though and I think he is holding a lot back while he is the last man in midfield.
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2012, 01:48:57 pm »
love that post.
fills me with optimism too.

I guess the formation is so fluid  now it's a different shape of midfield and harder to compare.
eg Sterling is now part of the front 3, but he's an old fashioned winger in my eyes. And it gets
even more complex when you consider the roles of Johnson, Downing etc.,

Offline Upinsmoke

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We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2012, 02:06:02 pm »
Good article Kris. We do have something special brewing, not just in the midfield but everywhere. Given more time to play the way BR wants, a few tweaks (just a few) to the personel and the growth of the younger lads..I can't help but look to the future with excitement.


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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2012, 02:10:24 pm »
At first glance I hoped it wasn't another post trying to relive the past at the expense of our present and future.. Glady my fears were missplaced - excellent post, we have a lot to be positive about.

I think we have a different monster this time though, in Rafa's team the players had very specific roles - Masher the Destroyer, Alonso the Visionary, Gerrard the Thrust.. In Rodgers system we have a lot of players who can slot into a multitude of roles, yet still excell in one. I feel if we keep this group of players together and add another "defensively minded" type player (Clasie, Wanyama, Pajot etc.) we will boast a truely worldclass midfield in a few years.

I think it was very evident v's Everton we lacked a bit of steel in front of our back 4 - whilst Allen did an impressive job all things considered v's Fellani I do feel that without Lucas we lack a presecence in the middle, and that lack of protection in front of the back 4 has hurt is somewhat this season. I'd love Henderson to get a chance playing there - he has a quality engine and his ball retention is excellent.

The future is so bright - Gerrard needs to be pushed forward, when you list Lucas, Allen, Henderson, Sahin, Shelvey, Gerrard - he stands out in the system we want to employ. His time isn't done yet though - Rodgers knows he is more effective further forward and obviously doesn't trust Henderson fully so Gerrard plays where he is asked.. Once we see Lucas back and Gerrard pushed forward I think we'll see another improvement..

The spine of this team is potentially up there.. Let's hope Rodgers is given the time to gel it together.

Offline MobileBayRed

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2012, 02:13:34 pm »
I too am very interested to see what happens when Lucas comes back.  Again, Lucas gives us a lot of versatility.  For instance, could we see a modified 3-5-2 like we played yesterday with Lucas playing alongside Skrtel/Agger and keeping Allen, Sahin and Gerrard in midfield with Suarez and Sterling up top?

It is clear that the midfield 3 (4?) are critical to the kind of tactical play that Rodgers wants to install.  It is also clear that he had a good idea of what skill set he looks for in these players.

Rodgers has so far favored playing two attacking midfielders together, generally some combination of Gerrard-Sahin-Shelvey.  With us being light on goals up front, this tactic makes some sense, but as some have pointed out, it leaves us without a true midfield defender.  If this continues, we likely wont see Lucas playing next to Allen as that would leave us light on attacking playmakers.

With regard to Henderson, I must admit that I have been one of his supporters.  I think he has a lot of the qualities needed in the central midfield and I would like to see him get more time.  That said, however, if we were to use him to strengthen our front 3, I would not be too angry.  We have quality depth in the midfield and we are glaringly thin up top.  If we can use our strength to upgrade our weakness, I think that such a move has to be considered.  Also, I think Suso could easily be pulled back into a central attacking midfield position if necessary.

All in all, as the OP says, we arent a finished product yet, but the signs of a good foundation are there. 
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2012, 02:22:38 pm »
Rodgers has so far favored playing two attacking midfielders together, generally some combination of Gerrard-Sahin-Shelvey.  With us being light on goals up front, this tactic makes some sense, but as some have pointed out, it leaves us without a true midfield defender.  If this continues, we likely wont see Lucas playing next to Allen as that would leave us light on attacking playmakers.

There's another theme that is possible, although, unfortunately, probably not with our squad. Have a solid midfield 2 where goals are not a specific requirement, pack the front 4 with goalscorers, and have a back 4 whose basic instruction is to push up. The plan being to make life uncomfortable for the opposition so they can't build any kind of coherent attack, and have a pack of forwards who know how to get into goalscoring positions and finish when they get the ball. We are severely short in goalscoring forwards.
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2012, 02:35:58 pm »
The signs are promising - There are lots of competition for places in the midfield (which will increase when Lucas comes back) and players like Shelvey have stepped up. The hope is that Henderson will also progress as the season goes on - maybe being taken out of the limelight will help him to find his feet here.
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2012, 02:52:16 pm »
Is anyone else a bit disappointed with Sahin so far?, I know the lad has a lot of quality, but he hasn't really found his feet yet, I'm willing to be patient with him of course, but the worry is, that he may not start hitting his best form til March or April, and then back to Real Madrid, which would be a shame for us.

Probably putting the cart before the horse a bit here.

Offline MobileBayRed

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2012, 03:15:43 pm »
Is anyone else a bit disappointed with Sahin so far?, I know the lad has a lot of quality, but he hasn't really found his feet yet, I'm willing to be patient with him of course, but the worry is, that he may not start hitting his best form til March or April, and then back to Real Madrid, which would be a shame for us.

Probably putting the cart before the horse a bit here.

Not really disappointed.  His best games so far for us have come when he has been paired next to Henderson.  When he has played alongside Gerrard and Allen he has struggled to find his role.  Gerrard can do that do even the best midfielder as he simply commands the central midfield. 

Sahin does get into the box with good regularity and will always be a goal threat simply because of that fact.  His technical ability is also unquestioned. 

I do think he is adjusting a little bit to the more physical side of the Premiere League.
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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2012, 09:50:23 pm »
Bump

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2012, 10:50:36 pm »
The player we're missing now is the Mascherano type. We lack an aggressive, primarily defensive player who can also pass well. If we were to simply add Mascherano, we'd have a great midfield, with the right balance.

If we talk Sahin, I think he'd be great with a more physical player beside him. IMO we don't have the right mix just yet. We could see it vs Everton. When they became aggressive, we struggled, even though we had a better group of CMs than them. We shouldn't have to sub a player like Sahin because of that.

This is also why I Henderson's position could be under threat. He's a good player, but Allen and Sahin are better and Shelvey is a bigger threat going forward. Lucas? Gerrard? Everywhere we look, we lack this aggressive defensive CM and it's the most obvious improvement we could make to our CM. It's very difficult to rival the CM we had in 2007, but with this player, we could soon come fairly close.

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2012, 10:58:17 pm »
Sahin is being completely wasted as an AM. He is not that. Sahin is a deep lying playmaker. Ae should be playing alongside Allen/Lucas. Gerrrard likewise is an AM. If we could just switch these two around, we would see a much more fluid midfield. It will be interesting to see what happens when Lucas returns.

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2012, 11:26:35 pm »
Sahin is being completely wasted as an AM. He is not that. Sahin is a deep lying playmaker. Ae should be playing alongside Allen/Lucas. Gerrrard likewise is an AM. If we could just switch these two around, we would see a much more fluid midfield. It will be interesting to see what happens when Lucas returns.

Very valid point, I find it very odd how we've had him play higher up the pitch with his back to goal at times and its not suited him bar the Norwich away where even then he alternated with gerrard. He's best performance's have been west brom away an anzhi at home  where he dictated games from deep and we should keep him there. His major flaw is though is the tendency to let runners run off him in midfield and a failure to track them which he needs to improve on.

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2012, 11:32:47 pm »
Very valid point, I find it very odd how we've had him play higher up the pitch with his back to goal at times and its not suited him bar the Norwich away where even then he alternated with gerrard. He's best performance's have been west brom away an anzhi at home  where he dictated games from deep and we should keep him there. His major flaw is though is the tendency to let runners run off him in midfield and a failure to track them which he needs to improve on.
I think we might see him deeper when Lucas is back. Lucas can obviously rectify and of Sahin's defensive vulnerability.

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2012, 12:06:24 am »
I think we might see him deeper when Lucas is back. Lucas can obviously rectify and of Sahin's defensive vulnerability.

But then the question is where would Allen play?

For us to have a fluid midfield, Gerrard needs to be as far away from midfield as possible. Weather it be out wide or in the AM posistion, he needs instructions not to drop deep. His presence is so strong that when he is in midfield, that I think it is inhibiting both Sahin and Allen in terms of building play through the phases. When Gerrard plays deep, everything tends to run through him.


Get Gerrad as close to the goal as possible and let him just worry about getting goals and finding the killer pass in the final third rather than building play.

Offline Kansti

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2012, 01:09:49 am »
But then the question is where would Allen play?

For us to have a fluid midfield, Gerrard needs to be as far away from midfield as possible. Weather it be out wide or in the AM posistion, he needs instructions not to drop deep. His presence is so strong that when he is in midfield, that I think it is inhibiting both Sahin and Allen in terms of building play through the phases. When Gerrard plays deep, everything tends to run through him.


Get Gerrad as close to the goal as possible and let him just worry about getting goals and finding the killer pass in the final third rather than building play.

Agree with this. I see Gerrard moving away from midfield, with Allen filling in that role, with Gerrard to contribute more to our attacking intent at the front 3. Its pretty much the most logical method basically. If Rodgers is really in for the long haul, and with Gerrard at 32, he obviously isn't going to build the midfield around
Gerrard, and will be looking to exploit his goal scoring abilities, and at the same time we decrease the possibility of burning out players like Sterling and Suso.

Allen will simply be playing along side Sahin in a 1-2 (Lucas, Allen and Sahin), and if circumstances dictate that we need to shift to a 2-1 instead, it will probably be Lucas and Allen, Sahin/Shelvey. Hotlby?   :P
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 01:12:19 am by Kansti »

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2012, 01:38:51 am »
Brilliant article L6, it's always nice when someone can string together a Liverpool era or two without being overly nostalgic.

As a general question, do we think a manager can often be summed up in a nutshell by their central midfield? Is this midfield a portent to our future success?

I was also wondering which shops are likely to have any Mascherano-style lung waistcoats in stock?

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Re: We had the best midfield in the world - what now?
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2012, 02:33:50 am »
Nice article. I still think the weak link in our midfield is lack of cover for Lucas. If he is out it means we are robbing Peter to pay Paul. As much as we need another attacker or two we definitely need a young DM. A bit like Lucas learned his role alongside Mascherano in training a young DM could come in and learn from a great player. Allen or Sahin as the middle of the 3 and Gerrard/Shelvey at the point. I always think Henderson will take Sahins role if he doesn't stay and have a year of development.

It will be interesting to see what options we take but I think our midfield although good is not yet as balanced as it could be.
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