Topic: Arsenal

[deFacto please, you bastards]

We've signed a bunch of shite when in the CL, and other than Sanchez or Ozil most would have come if you give them enough money.  You lot managed to sign Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge whilst having EL - I don't see why scouting decent players can't help offset this gap.  English clubs are still richer than 95% of the other teams in the world, after all.  The bigger problem we have had at Arsenal for years, especially prevalent this season, is the lack of specific tactics for top teams.  It makes zero difference losing to Bayern with a bunch of £20m players on £100k pw, than with a group of £40m players on £150k per week, as far as fans are concerned.

I think the main problem with you lot is the lack of progress in the league, you seem to be in the same direction, each season in the league is relatively the same, it's been a while when you were actually involved in a title race [ I think not since the season with Eduardo's injury?] And I think that's what is frustrating you lot the most. No clear progress in that department despite the players that have been signed. At the begining it was, you were building a side, you had young players, but those players never amounted to anything that would take you to the heights you wanted to.

In the process your club, players, supporters and manager perhaps have taken Europe for granted. you have had some tough opponents in first rounds, but you've also had opportunities to at least show some fight and show some progress.

I think that is the problem. I would rip your hand off for the two FA cups you have won. Cllubs are built on trophies. But the clear stagnation in the league, is what the problem appears to be for all of you.

Cech,Sanchez, Ozil and you've not challenged for the title. Before that you had Van persie, Fabregas and Nasri, and it was a young side for years, but couldn't sustain anything. I'm sure if you had clears signs of progress, the pressure and angst towards Wenger wouldn't exist.

[Ashburton]

I think the main problem with you lot is the lack of progress in the league, you seem to be in the same direction, each season in the league is relatively the same, it's been a while when you were actually involved in a title race [ I think not since the season with Eduardo's injury?] And I think that's what is frustrating you lot the most. No clear progress in that department despite the players that have been signed. At the begining it was, you were building a side, you had young players, but those players never amounted to anything that would take you to the heights you wanted to.

In the process your club, players, supporters and manager perhaps have taken Europe for granted. you have had some tough opponents in first rounds, but you've also had opportunities to at least show some fight and show some progress.

I think that is the problem. I would rip your hand off for the two FA cups you have won. Cllubs are built on trophies. But the clear stagnation in the league, is what the problem appears to be for all of you.

Cech,Sanchez, Ozil and you've not challenged for the title. Before that you had Van persie, Fabregas and Nasri, and it was a young side for years, but couldn't sustain anything. I'm sure if you had clears signs of progress, the pressure and angst towards Wenger wouldn't exist.

Ironically we actually have had 4th, 3rd and 2nd place finishes - yet the problem remains due to the instability and stagnation in most of the big games.  That 3rd place finish came from a mid season collapse, and Leicester winning the title only came when the supposedly most 'consistent' side ended up capitulating by mid March.  I think the belief needs to be there for you to actually press on.  Nobody tipped Arsenal this season for the title, it was always Pep and City, or Mourinho at Utd, but never Wenger, the supposed steady set of hands, just coming off a 2nd place finish.  There is a reason for that.

I must say I preferred the team with promise, with some powderpuff players like Denilson, Hleb or Nasri who were tipped as some of the best midfielders in Europe - all coming together in either explosive symphony or utter failure.  You are right to say the draws have been atrocious, but many of those came from capitulations in the group stage, and then hitting Monaco without the proper preparation (becoming a trend).

The FA cup final is fantastic, but 2nd place means nothing, ultimately - being able to set a platform for future success and "build towards that" sustains fans for years, that rush towards the promised land which Liverpool fans currently are excited about.  The horrible feeling is when you realise the promised land will probably never arrive, you keep paying your ever increasing ticket prices, keep watching the same capitulations, the same promises of 'we will learn for next time', but realise you don't believe it any more.

[PeterTheRed ...]

We've signed a bunch of shite when in the CL, and other than Sanchez or Ozil most would have come if you give them enough money.  You lot managed to sign Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge whilst having EL - I don't see why scouting decent players can't help offset this gap.  English clubs are still richer than 95% of the other teams in the world, after all.  The bigger problem we have had at Arsenal for years, especially prevalent this season, is the lack of specific tactics for top teams.  It makes zero difference losing to Bayern with a bunch of £20m players on £100k pw, than with a group of £40m players on £150k per week, as far as fans are concerned.

This summer, you will learn the difference between having and not having Champions League football. Especially since you will lose your star player, and you won't be able to sign a replacement on the same level.

[Ashburton]

This summer, you will learn the difference between having and not having Champions League football. Especially since you will lose your star player, and you won't be able to sign a replacement on the same level.

It seemed to make fuck all difference to you lot, you signed a bunch of atrocious journeymen when you got CL football.  I honestly believe the Prem wages are so obscene compared to elsewhere, that it doesn't matter as much as expected for many players - there are enough talented players in the world to pick up, the trick is to coach them in to a team and a system.  Perhaps we won't be signing the 27-28 year olds at the peak of their powers, but 23-24 year olds which can develop .... oh wait we're doing that anyway.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It seemed to make fuck all difference to you lot, you signed a bunch of atrocious journeymen when you got CL football.  I honestly believe the Prem wages are so obscene compared to elsewhere, that it doesn't matter as much as expected for many players - there are enough talented players in the world to pick up, the trick is to coach them in to a team and a system.  Perhaps we won't be signing the 27-28 year olds at the peak of their powers, but 23-24 year olds which can develop .... oh wait we're doing that anyway.

It may not affect you at all, it will depend if you are willing to pay the wages. United have been without CL and in that time they signed Falcao,Di Maria, Pogba, Mikhi, Ibrahimovic. yes Mourinho might be an attraction for some players, but they're paying them massive wages.

Something has to give.

[PeterTheRed ...]

It seemed to make fuck all difference to you lot, you signed a bunch of atrocious journeymen when you got CL football.  I honestly believe the Prem wages are so obscene compared to elsewhere, that it doesn't matter as much as expected for many players - there are enough talented players in the world to pick up, the trick is to coach them in to a team and a system.  Perhaps we won't be signing the 27-28 year olds at the peak of their powers, but 23-24 year olds which can develop .... oh wait we're doing that anyway.

As I mentioned above, you will understand when your target picks Tottenham over Arsenal, even though you offer higher wages.

[Caligula?]

This summer, you will learn the difference between having and not having Champions League football. Especially since you will lose your star player, and you won't be able to sign a replacement on the same level.

I don't really think it will make much a difference. Regardless of whether Wenger stays or not, I think they're prepared to spend serious money this summer. And as they say, money talks. They can always convince any potential signings who still have second doubts about joining them that this season was a blip when you compare it to the last 15 seasons or whatever it is since they last missed out on CL qualification. Plus there's always the lure of the "London" lifestye. We lost a few players to them and Spurs because of that reason alone, and Spurs weren't even in the CL when they were beating us to players if I remember correctly.

[Dougle]

This summer, you will learn the difference between having and not having Champions League football. Especially since you will lose your star player, and you won't be able to sign a replacement on the same level.

Utd broke the world record (?) last summer in their third or fourth year without CL footie. It's not a problem, pay the wages and hey presto, you get the players. Arsenal can buy the players but will they ? CL is a factor I am sure but money is bigger I think.

[Something Worse]

Utd broke the world record (?) last summer in their third or fourth year without CL footie. It's not a problem, pay the wages and hey presto, you get the players. Arsenal can buy the players but will they ? CL is a factor I am sure but money is bigger I think.

And finishing 20th in the Premier League is worth more than winning the CL these days, I think?

[skipper757]

Player recruitment thoughts:

When it comes to CL/No CL etc, player recruitment has plenty of nuances.

For example, Kylian Mbappe and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang have both mentioned their admiration for Real Madrid.  It's unlikely that Real would sign both.  If they both want to go, they will be insanely expensive.  However, if you throw 70+ million at Dortmund/Monaco and offer 250K+ a week, you could get them.  In those sort of scenarios, you would hardly have any competition either.  I mean, there are dozens of teams in the CL, but how many would offer that much money?  Man United paid 90 million for Pogba.  Who was their competition?  If no one bids the amount you do, and he's interested, well he's yours.  If City/United don't get CL but throw 85 million at Monaco for Mbappe and offer him 250K, he's going there.  Likewise, if Griezmann is thinking of leaving, and City/United throws 85 million at Atletico and offers Antoine 300K a week, one season out of the CL doesn't matter.  He may love to play at Bayern, Barca, or even Arsenal/Liverpool/Spurs/Chelsea but if those clubs don't offer the money, he's not going there.  CL is basically irrelevant at that point.

Where CL really matters is for aspiring stars where no one is throwing around obscene money.  For example, we offered Mkhitarian good wages (maybe more than Dortmund), but the CL and Klopp's run there probably played a huge factor.  Of course, if Shakhtar had set a higher price (let's say 50 million), and we paid that and offered him 200K a week, he's ours.  But if us and Dortmund both bid 25 million (accepted by Shakhtar), we're going to have to pay some damn fine wages without CL (and at that point, we had finished 7th, 6th, 8th, 7th the previous 4 seasons).  You can see why he would pick Dortmund.

When it comes to Arsenal, whoever their manager is, and their situation is, if they throw around silly money, players will come, CL or not.  However, where they could have a problem is if they're looking at players like Naby Keita, Jonathan Tah, Thomas Lemar, etc.  If CL teams come in for those players, Arsenal will have a tough time getting those players at reasonable prices (by modern football standards) if CL clubs come in.  They'd have to blow CL teams out of the water, which makes team-building really difficult (constantly overpaying).  Consistently overpaying is also not what Arsenal have done over the years.

[xbugawugax]

Utd broke the world record (?) last summer in their third or fourth year without CL footie. It's not a problem, pay the wages and hey presto, you get the players. Arsenal can buy the players but will they ? CL is a factor I am sure but money is bigger I think.

that is because they have a decent financial model and makes tons of profit.

Personally I think if Arsene stays even without CL, they will still able to get a couple of big name players in. This year is considered a blip and the only year they be without CL in about 20.

Money is definitely a big factor and London as well.

[The North Bank]

Money trumps CL every time. CL only comes into play if the wages on offer are the same. Young player, old player, bit part player, world class player. They can all sacrifice a year out of CL, they won't sacrifice 50k a week. Chelsea and United weren't in CL this season, Kante had offers from CL teams, including a pay rise at his own champion CL club, went for the highest wage. Pogba Zlatan and the rest did too. Like any job, money is the biggest factor.
We won't pay the money though, in or out of CL. Top 4 and an fa cup is the limit to the players we get.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Well I've got a better chance now. She broke up with her boyfriend recently. 

So what time does the action start?

[ScottishGoon]

Time will tell regarding our signings in the summer.

Not that i think Arsenal would ever ridiculously overspend, but perhaps this summer is the summer where they choose to push the boat out a bit. I think the board & Wenger overestimated what we have in the past, perhaps the league finishes of 4th, 3rd & 2nd masked our failings somewhat.

This summer, the pressure is on big time. Pressure on Wenger, pressure on Gazidas & the board as well. There's no top 4 finish to hide behind. There's no finishing above Spurs to use as another measurement crux. In nearly all the big games, we've been defeated, & just as importantly comprehensively outplayed. There might be an FA Cup (we will be outsiders to win that in the final), but it's still clear as day we have some big issues.

So, you would imagine if there ever was a summer to try & be aggressive in the market, this summer would be it.

In saying that, we've never really gone out & signed the 'biggest stars' anyway. Our 3 biggest signings in the last few years have been players Real Madrid, Barcelona & Chelsea have found surplus to requirements. Where we need to recruit better, is in the teir we usually shop at, & i'm not sure if being out the Champions League for a season affects that too much. I've said it before, look at arguably the 2 best signings from last season, Mane & Kante. Both signed by teams not playing Champions League football.  Kante even dropped out of it.

There's lots of good players out there, that would be an improvement on Gabriel in defence, or be better suited to our current midfield than Xhaka, or be much better at Wengerball than Theo Walcott. It's about identifying the right one's to suit our system, our supposed style of play, & that suits the rigours of the EPL. This is where we have failed i think the past couple of years, & need to get right.

[peterstone]

Fat c*nt I hear? Surprised if it's black, we have c*nts but very few openly racists

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

I've listened to it a few times with the sound up and it sounds like black to me.

Regardless, its bullying behaviour.

[peterstone]

Yeah, I'd second that.  Spurs fans are really quite a broad minded lot for London football fans...  Arsenal fans are too really...

For London football fans?

Sadly there are dickheads all over the country and the world.

Lets not pretend we don't have our fair share.

[MagicHat]

When people ask why we would want Wenger out, the derby shows some reasons why. Spurs felt so much better then us, we only played during a spell in first half after Spurs missed two sitters. One side looked like one well coached and dribbled, believing in their ambitious young manager, the other side... didn't.

thing is though, for all the talk they need a complete overhaul, more up to date and better coaches could do so much more with many of those playes, they have plenty of good players, so many of them are playing like crap though.

I would agree with that.

Hypothetically, would you rather win the FA Cup if it meant Wenger staying or lose it if it meant Wenger going?

Wenger won't go even if we lose 60000-0.

In the long term, Wenger going would be better but I would be happier with a trophy in short term.

We've been saying it every season for a while now, but this truly is the worst Arsenal side in well over a decade. I think the commentators mentioned today that the only player that would get into Tottenham's XI would be Sanchez, and it's hard to argue against that.

I have heard Wenger is furious Henry gave us one player. I gave us 3 but I'm an Arsenal fan and allowed to be deluded I do think we have a reasonably good squad but Poch gets very extra inch he can out of his players whereas our squad no longer believes in Wenger

That is nice, but it means very little in their position. Without Champions League football, they are becoming the 5th or maybe even the 6th most attractive destination in the Premier League, and they will suffer badly because of it. As we have already seen, their recent back-to-back FA Cup wins haven't helped them a lot.

In terms of fixing our problems, your right. If your a player this summer coming to England and everything is equal, who is going to be ahead of us this summer? Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs. We will be ahead of Everton, maybe level with Man U but think they have more lustre though personally I would keep the hell away with Jose. The Fa Cup would be a great afternoon but it won't stop players seeing us as a club in decline with a manager out of date

Mind you, failing to change our manager means even if we were a super attractive club, we would have a lot of issues anyway.

[The North Bank]

In London, Spurs Chelsea Milwall and West ham have a very nasty element in their fan base. Real c*nts who think they're hard. You can go to the other clubs wearing your team shirt without any hassle.

On the field, they battered us, probably the most one sided NLD where Spurs had the upper hand, it felt like back in the days when we would steam roller them on the way to titles while they were in midtable, only in reverse. We need a complete overhaul, a lot of those players will be difficult to shift as they are on big wages, luckily many have contracts running out and the smart thing would be not to renew.

[keano7]

Add £17.1m for Lucas Perez on to that.

Perez has looked decent in the games that he's started. Wenger just didn't want to play him at all.

It's all gone wrong for them since they took Sanchez out the CF position. He was brilliant there and now looks like a whinging kid on the left wing waiting for something to happen.

[The North Bank]

Perez has looked decent in the games that he's started. Wenger just didn't want to play him at all.

It's all gone wrong for them since they took Sanchez out the CF position. He was brilliant there and now looks like a whinging kid on the left wing waiting for something to happen.

Agree with that, he should have stayed upfront. We lack a top striker and a top winger anyway, and thats without Sanchez leaving.

[Zlen]

I think it'll be a fair few years before Arsenal are back in Champions League should they, and they probably will, drop out of it this season.

[El Lobo]

Do we know where Sanchez is going yet?

[rscanderlech]

I think it'll be a fair few years before Arsenal are back in Champions League should they, and they probably will, drop out of it this season.

I don't see how it is possible to predict these things. They could make some bad decisions and suffer for many years, or they could well hire one of the world's best youngish managers, luckily pick up one or two huge young talents who startt performing sooner than expected, and go on to win a title within a few years.

It's very hard to predict what happens to a club these days.

[Crosby Nick]

Do we know where Sanchez is going yet?

Strikes me as someone who wouldn't think twice about moving to Chelsea. Not sure why but think it's possible. But if a better offer came from abroad would he prefer that?

[ScottishGoon]

I don't see how it is possible to predict these things. They could make some bad decisions and suffer for many years, or they could well hire one of the world's best youngish managers, luckily pick up one or two huge young talents who startt performing sooner than expected, and go on to win a title within a few years.

It's very hard to predict what happens to a club these days.

I think this is very sensible. We keep hearing about power shifts, how it will be hard to get back in the top 4, we are now in decline etc.

There's still lots of questions to even try & make a snap judgement, there's just too many different scenarios that could play out.  Will Wenger stay or go? We've never been under so much pressure, so will they be more aggressive in the market? Who will leave the club player wise, & who will they bring in? How will rival clubs fare ie Spurs at Wembley & their new stadium, Chelsea at their temp ground & new stadium etc?

Lets see how the summer goes & the new season starts, should be a bit easier to tell after that.

[The North Bank]

Chelsea are a prime example that bad decisions can be overturned with good decisions providing there is a constant supply of money, and that can happen overnight. And let's face it, we could win the cup this season , which would still be a better outcome than any Spurs season since 1991 and any Liverpool season since 2006. Fine margins in football.

[El Lobo]

Chelsea are a prime example that bad decisions can be overturned with good decisions providing there is a constant supply of money, and that can happen overnight. And let's face it, we could win the cup this season , which would still be a better outcome than any Spurs season since 1991 and any Liverpool season since 2006. Fine margins in football.

That's very Spursy of you, comparing yourself to teams who have criminally underachieved in that time

[Yiannis]

Do we know where Sanchez is going yet?

Think it's gonna be Juve.

[Red-Soldier]

Chelsea are a prime example that bad decisions can be overturned with good decisions providing there is a constant supply of money, and that can happen overnight. And let's face it, we could win the cup this season , which would still be a better outcome than any Spurs season since 1991 and any Liverpool season since 2006. Fine margins in football.

Then Wenger signs his 2 year extension.

[Red-Soldier]

That's very Spursy of you, comparing yourself to teams who have criminally underachieved in that time

Indeed, he'll be making comparisons to Villa next 

[youll never walk alone it]

Broken jaw, fractured skull, blind in one eye. 23 year old, one of their own.

thanks mate, sick scumbags, horrific to think it was done by your OWN fans.

[red_Mark1980]

Heard a story on the radio last week a spurs fan was badly hurt at the cup semi when a group of spurs fans attacked him thinking he was a chelsea fan, i sort of half heard it but that was the main jist.

Spurs fan or Chelsea fan. There's no reason for it

[zero zero]

In London, Spurs Chelsea Milwall and West ham have a very nasty element in their fan base. Real c*nts who think they're hard. You can go to the other clubs wearing your team shirt without any hassle.

Hmmm. One of these things is not like the others.

[The North Bank]

That's very Spursy of you, comparing yourself to teams who have criminally underachieved in that time

But this is in our underachieving, crisis, shambles, laughing stock, season. To still win a trophy would be pretty special, especially as it would mean beating a brilliant Chelsea side.

[The North Bank]

Hmmm. One of these things is not like the others.

Any sort of collective mob abuse of someone walking down the street minding their own business is very lowlife in my opinion.

[Red-Soldier]

But this is in our underachieving, crisis, shambles, laughing stock, season. To still win a trophy would be pretty special, especially as it would mean beating a brilliant Chelsea side.

But they aren't really brilliant though, more efficient, than brilliant.

[El Lobo]

But this is in our underachieving, crisis, shambles, laughing stock, season. To still win a trophy would be pretty special, especially as it would mean beating a brilliant Chelsea side.

Aye, last season we won a trophy was pretty much the same. Got to two finals actually.

Plus in all fairness, you're not gonna beat Chelsea.

[zero zero]

Any sort of collective mob abuse of someone walking down the street minding their own business is very lowlife in my opinion.

Of course it is, but those other three are in a different order of magnitude to Spurs and especially the two that play in blue and have lions on their crests.

[Cliff Bastin]

You throw money at players to play for you. It's as simple as that. We still need a new manger but to sign great players you invest. The obsession many of the top English clubs have with the Champions league is just unhealthy. It breeds a just do enough mentality, just get by mentality.

[Cliff Bastin]

Aye, last season we won a trophy was pretty much the same. Got to two finals actually.

Plus in all fairness, you're not gonna beat Chelsea.

It's a one off cup final.

The Alli goal showed the difference between both sides right now. Hunger, desire. The will to score. They want it more which is criminal for our football club. Our team is all over the show and has been all season. Wenger surely must see it is time to go.

I can't wait until this shit season is over. Fed up of watching utter dross week in week out. A lot of players thrown together with no proper coaching put into them and actually playing like a proper team.