Author Topic: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion  (Read 266848 times)

Offline jckliew

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,208
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1400 on: June 20, 2011, 01:08:38 am »
I don't know - Kenny may or he'll find out. Surely only then can we judge him?

Not judging him et al....just watchin him at U-21......there was nuthing much to see. Thats why i am askin.......hes attracted attention due to his price tag
My 12yr old son asked me: Is Blackburn a Racist name?

Offline Armand9

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,118
    • http://armand9.deviantart.com/
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1401 on: June 20, 2011, 01:13:09 am »
1. Why the fuck are (some) people hung up about the presumed transfer fee (not that we know the actual amount anyway)? We spent money on a young talent, get the fuck over it, it ain't your money, you have no reason to presume it will impact signing other targets so what's the big fucking deal and all the bitching?

2. Undermining his playing ability and usefulness in our team before he even dons the red shirt? What the fuck it that about?

Some right fucking idiots in these here parts. Rushie would've been out the door if judged by some of the twats around here instead of going on to be our top scorer of all time - and that's just one example.

For fuck's sake assess the kid in OUR fucking team when he actually has a few games under his belt for us.
Losing your only chance of silverware this season to your city rival. At home. With the most expensive squad ever assembled.

Have that, you arrogant wanker. CarraG238

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1402 on: June 20, 2011, 01:16:27 am »
Do you think i would even argue with you if we were buying the best young talent?

I don't think you know what your argument is.

We have some of the best young talent in Europe in our academy.

We have an integrated culture at our club at last that has a simple paradigm that cannot be faulted - depth, attacking philosophy, effective and talented youth.

Henderson is a talented young player who fits this template and can play for us for the next decade.

Its one things to be sullen because we haven't signed 18 year old Zoominho from Santos Da Gama for £30 million. Its another to be sullen about a new acquisition of a talented young player who is one component of our new ascendancy, and stink the place out with your dismissal of him. But to do so when its clear to see how we are finally taking shape, and how we really have been buying the best young players in the country, and have an academy that is bearing rich fruit, bemuses me.



"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1403 on: June 20, 2011, 01:17:15 am »
I certainly haven't.

Shelvey just hasn't played enough prem football to come to this conclusion let alone this

seen him play a good number of times, i think he's got something special

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1404 on: June 20, 2011, 01:19:31 am »
and as for adding squad depth do we just sell the players we have coming through the from the reserves?

We are not going to be able to sustain our campaign purely on players from the academy and reserves. How can anyone think that.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline BEAST

  • IEBOY - TIME FOR BOCK BOCK!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,340
  • Sturridge dance
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1405 on: June 20, 2011, 01:20:09 am »
Question is still there: Whats his best position?

why don't you ask Kenny fucktard.

Offline Johnnyboy1973

  • ★★★ Never, ever, bloody anything ever! ★★★
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,647
  • Up the piss boiling, asthmatic Reds!!!
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1406 on: June 20, 2011, 01:20:35 am »
seen him play a good number of times, i think he's got something special

........... and plenty can say the same of Henderson.

Get over it.
Where's this Yakimoto fella?

Offline jckliew

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,208
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1407 on: June 20, 2011, 01:22:45 am »
why don't you ask Kenny fucktard.

Why dont you show some respect?
My 12yr old son asked me: Is Blackburn a Racist name?

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1408 on: June 20, 2011, 01:25:14 am »
I don't think you know what your argument is.

We have some of the best young talent in Europe in our academy.

We have an integrated culture at our club at last that has a simple paradigm that cannot be faulted - depth, attacking philosophy, effective and talented youth.

Henderson is a talented young player who fits this template and can play for us for the next decade.

Its one things to be sullen because we haven't signed 18 year old Zoominho from Santos Da Gama for £30 million. Its another to be sullen about a new acquisition of a talented young player who is one component of our new ascendancy, and stink the place out with your dismissal of him. But to do so when its clear to see how we are finally taking shape, and how we really have been buying the best young players in the country, and have an academy that is bearing rich fruit, bemuses me.

 If you read my posts on this subject, you'll see that i'm not actually dismissing him. I think he will be a good player and addition to the squad. My point is, that if we are buying young talent with the intention of them entering the first team, why arent they the zoominho's? AC milan did it with Pato, it happens with other teams. Our recruiting system isnt suddenlty unique and new age. I just believe that a player of hendersons ability, which is good but not good enough to be a first team starter means that it only pushes a reserve player further down the pecking order when they should be able to breakthrough. Flannagan, Kelly, and spearing have all been given chances due to circumstance of lacking squad depth, but as a result they've blossomed.

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1409 on: June 20, 2011, 01:26:25 am »
We are not going to be able to sustain our campaign purely on players from the academy and reserves. How can anyone think that.

We both know that, pointless comment.

Offline koolkamal

  • There's a kind of hush
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,440
  • Our dreams are what make us who we are.
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1410 on: June 20, 2011, 01:30:17 am »
Not judging him et al....just watchin him at U-21......there was nuthing much to see. Thats why i am askin.......hes attracted attention due to his price tag

If we looked at players at only International Level - Gerrard, Rooney would both be shit.

We I do know about Henderson from the few times I've seen is he seems an intelligent player, good passer, good movement, little bit of pace. Seen him play wide right and in the center. Never seen him play as a holding midfielder until U21's so maybe it's not a position he's ever played before.
"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them". Walt Disney

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1411 on: June 20, 2011, 01:31:04 am »
........... and plenty can say the same of Henderson.

Get over it.

if you're just out to club a few of the anti-henderson brigade, im not one of them.

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1412 on: June 20, 2011, 01:31:21 am »
We both know that, pointless comment.

It was pointless to ask "do we just sell the players we have coming through the from the reserves?" in the first place.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Vidocq

  • chronologically challenged LFC historian
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,453
  • I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1413 on: June 20, 2011, 01:31:56 am »
why don't you ask Kenny fucktard.

ummm?
"During those days I understood more than ever what 'You'll Never Walk Alone' means."  Luis Suarez

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1414 on: June 20, 2011, 01:37:54 am »
If you read my posts on this subject, you'll see that i'm not actually dismissing him. I think he will be a good player and addition to the squad. My point is, that if we are buying young talent with the intention of them entering the first team, why arent they the zoominho's? AC milan did it with Pato, it happens with other teams. Our recruiting system isnt suddenlty unique and new age.

This is just petulance. Never mind that we have bought, and are buying some of the best young players in Britain and Europe, the question about why we can't buy a Pato is just throwing toys out of the pram. Different players, different roles, different vision for what they are going to do.


Quote
I just believe that a player of hendersons ability, which is good but not good enough to be a first team starter means that it only pushes a reserve player further down the pecking order when they should be able to breakthrough. Flannagan, Kelly, and spearing have all been given chances due to circumstance of lacking squad depth, but as a result they've blossomed.

We are not going to buy players that impede the emergence of our best and most urgent talent. Our manager makes the judgment calls on these balances. The idea he doesn't understand these emphasis and balances is risible.


"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline jckliew

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,208
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1415 on: June 20, 2011, 01:38:17 am »
If we looked at players at only International Level - Gerrard, Rooney would both be shit.

We I do know about Henderson from the few times I've seen is he seems an intelligent player, good passer, good movement, little bit of pace. Seen him play wide right and in the center. Never seen him play as a holding midfielder until U21's so maybe it's not a position he's ever played before.

Thanks mate........he does look somewhat sterile in the holding position
My 12yr old son asked me: Is Blackburn a Racist name?

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1416 on: June 20, 2011, 01:50:35 am »
if you're just out to club a few of the anti-henderson brigade, im not one of them.

OK. But you have decided that without even having played for us once, without having been coached by Kenny and Clarke, without having played beside our class of first teamers, he is actually an impediment and a drag on us, because he is probably blocking the emergence of talent from our academy, a judgment call that the person closest to that academy, Kenny, with his own eye and knowledge, in conjunction with Borrell and Clarke, does not himself make.

Before he kicks a ball, you've stuck a label on him, as not good enough, and a lump impeding a truer talent emerging. Meaning Kenny and our coaching team have unwittingly purchased a second rate blockage to the flow of talent they are personally nurturing and intimately know better than anyone else.

And all this before he's even had a single training session with us.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1417 on: June 20, 2011, 01:57:19 am »
This is just petulance. Never mind that we have bought, and are buying some of the best young players in Britain and Europe, the question about why we can't buy a Pato is just throwing toys out of the pram. Different players, different roles, different vision for what they are going to do.


We are not going to buy players that impede the emergence of our best and most urgent talent. Our manager makes the judgment calls on these balances. The idea he doesn't understand these emphasis and balances is risible.


Seriously, i dont even think you're listening to anything i'm saying, you'll just do anything to undermine.  Who's being petulant, cant you see that im using pato as an example, and how young he was when AC milan bought him. Buying the best young players in Britain and Europe? who have we bought? Dont mix your hopes with facts.


Also, im asking for your opinion, not for you to tell me something i already know, of course the manager will decide, but heres the question, do you think that buying young players who aren't first team starters, might hinder the development opportunities for emerging reserve team players. especially ones that have the quality, but might not be considered urgent talent, using spearing as an example here.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 02:02:22 am by MikkeB »

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1418 on: June 20, 2011, 02:05:00 am »

Seriously, i dont even think you're listening to anything i'm saying, you'll just do anything to undermine.  Who's being petulant, cant you see that im using pato as an example, and how young he was when AC milan bought him. Buying the best young players in Britain and Europe? who have we bought? Dont mix your hopes with facts.

You have neither hope and little fact, that is the problem.

Sourcing and scouting and buying as far as we can the most talented young players in Britain and Europe subject to the restrictions of signature competition has brought the likes of Sterling and Suso to our doorstep. Its clear we have enunciated a strategy of buying young talent, hence our purchase of Henderson and pursuit of the likes of Wickham. That is what we are attempting to do. Astonishing that you can't see that or give quarter to the concerted effort being made to do that.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1419 on: June 20, 2011, 02:08:21 am »
Also, im asking for your opinion, not for you to tell me something i already know

You don't seem to already know it, and as I said in my last post, you've already decided that he's a drag and a lump hindering us - a judgment you've made without him even having played once for us, and without taking into account why those who know our academy and the preparedness and suitability for immediate advancement, ie: Kenny, would buy a player who would block exactly what he has been involved in nurturing for the last few years since he was personally brought in by Rafa to be a part of the academy and help bring in and recruit and mentor our youth.

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1420 on: June 20, 2011, 02:11:44 am »
OK. But you have decided that without even having played for us once, without having been coached by Kenny and Clarke, without having played beside our class of first teamers, he is actually an impediment and a drag on us, because he is probably blocking the emergence of talent from our academy, a judgment call that the person closest to that academy, Kenny, with his own eye and knowledge, in conjunction with Borrell and Clarke, does not himself make.

Before he kicks a ball, you've stuck a label on him, as not good enough, and a lump impeding a truer talent emerging. Meaning Kenny and our coaching team have unwittingly purchased a second rate blockage to the flow of talent they are personally nurturing and intimately know better than anyone else.

And all this before he's even had a single training session with us.

Its my faith in Kenny and Clarkes experience and ability that makes me believe that henderson, being thier choice, will come good. If he was thier choice and not comolli's. Just thought that usually players of that price would slot right in, and do what they do best, as kenny said of Suarez.

Offline BFM

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,160
  • Compulsive hyperbolic exaggerator
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1421 on: June 20, 2011, 02:12:24 am »
why don't you ask Kenny fucktard.

settle down mate
If you are first you are first. If you are second you are nothing.

Offline Stussy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,266
  • ...we had dreams and songs to sing...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1422 on: June 20, 2011, 02:15:16 am »
Its my faith in Kenny and Clarkes experience and ability that makes me believe that henderson, being thier choice, will come good. If he was thier choice and not comolli's.

Fair enough.

As to players who will slot in straight away, like Suarez...........its different cogs to make the machine run. These are the judgment calls and balances we're having to make, and Henderson is premiership experienced as well as having aptitude and talent that Kenny believes can be fulfilled upwards, not just immediately, but in the near future and long term too. Kenny has improved every player he has laid hands on and had faith in and trusted in his 6 months in charge. He's an amplifier of talent.

Henderson is just another chapted of the book he's writing now.
"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1423 on: June 20, 2011, 02:18:14 am »
You have neither hope and little fact, that is the problem.

Sourcing and scouting and buying as far as we can the most talented young players in Britain and Europe subject to the restrictions of signature competition has brought the likes of Sterling and Suso to our doorstep. Its clear we have enunciated a strategy of buying young talent, hence our purchase of Henderson and pursuit of the likes of Wickham. That is what we are attempting to do. Astonishing that you can't see that or give quarter to the concerted effort being made to do that.

Oh come on, dont quote sterling, and suso to me, where do they even feature in this discussion. i haven't said we have a problem with the academy set up. i'm clearly talking about recruitment for the first team. Yes, i see that we are aiming at buying young talent... ok let me put it this way, you think wickham is talent, i think lukaku is, just a difference of expectation.... in my opinion, until we're getting young talents on this level we'll be lagging behind.

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1424 on: June 20, 2011, 02:24:48 am »
Fair enough.

As to players who will slot in straight away, like Suarez...........its different cogs to make the machine run. These are the judgment calls and balances we're having to make, and Henderson is premiership experienced as well as having aptitude and talent that Kenny believes can be fulfilled upwards, not just immediately, but in the near future and long term too. Kenny has improved every player he has laid hands on and had faith in and trusted in his 6 months in charge. He's an amplifier of talent.

Henderson is just another chapted of the book he's writing now.

 To be fair, considering where we were just last year, and how quickly everything's taking shape, it's easy to get impatient and expect immediate success without time. I'm genuinly excited about aquiring players like henderson, as i know it will pay dividends in the years to come, but it would be nice by the end of the window, especially with the fair play rules coming into play soon that we stock up with young but established players also.

Offline shelovesyou

  • andyouknow youshouldbe glad OOOOOOH!!!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,251
  • Yes
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1425 on: June 20, 2011, 02:47:55 am »
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am

Offline keyo

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,777
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1426 on: June 20, 2011, 03:02:43 am »
Do you think i would even argue with you if we were buying  real young talent? I dont think the young players we've bought are talented enough to challenge our first team players, or be the game changers we need for some seasons to come, and as for adding squad depth do we just sell the players we have coming through the from the reserves?


you do not believe the players we have bought are real talent?  or talented enough to challenge for a first team place?

ok, leave aside the transfer fee and individual opinions of the players......we have bought so far under comolli and dalglish: -

luis suarez - age 24....not a youngster but with most of his career ahead of him, uruguay international, 16 goals in 39 internationals
andy carroll - age 22....2 england caps, 1 goal, 13 pl goals in 35 appearances
conor thomas - age 17, loan, under 17 england international
jordan henderson - age 21, 1 england cap, 70pl appearances and 4 goals
ryan mclaughlin - age 16
alex o'hanlon - age 15
lloyd jones - age 15

take out the 4 who are clearly marked for the academy, we have bought 3 players who all have international recognition...now regardless of whether each would be picked regularly for the national side, clearly they are rated by club and international managers and will compete for first team places now and for years to come

too many in here want an excuse to slate the player......if you do not rate henderson, just say so, do not hide behind the fee - the club want him and pay accordingly, there isn't a shelf with players you can choose from like safeway or tesco, do not go on about the transfer policy like you know exactly what the club plans to do or what their plans are for the reserves and youth players, particularly as we are seeing youth players get opportunities to prove themselves and hold a place in the team

Joey's ate the frogs legs, made the swiss roll, now he's munchin' gladbach!!

Offline MikkeB

  • Mr Positive
  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1427 on: June 20, 2011, 03:20:19 am »
you do not believe the players we have bought are real talent?  or talented enough to challenge for a first team place?

ok, leave aside the transfer fee and individual opinions of the players......we have bought so far under comolli and dalglish: -

luis suarez - age 24....not a youngster but with most of his career ahead of him, uruguay international, 16 goals in 39 internationals
andy carroll - age 22....2 england caps, 1 goal, 13 pl goals in 35 appearances
conor thomas - age 17, loan, under 17 england international
jordan henderson - age 21, 1 england cap, 70pl appearances and 4 goals
ryan mclaughlin - age 16
alex o'hanlon - age 15
lloyd jones - age 15

take out the 4 who are clearly marked for the academy, we have bought 3 players who all have international recognition...now regardless of whether each would be picked regularly for the national side, clearly they are rated by club and international managers and will compete for first team places now and for years to come

too many in here want an excuse to slate the player......if you do not rate henderson, just say so, do not hide behind the fee - the club want him and pay accordingly, there isn't a shelf with players you can choose from like safeway or tesco, do not go on about the transfer policy like you know exactly what the club plans to do or what their plans are for the reserves and youth players, particularly as we are seeing youth players get opportunities to prove themselves and hold a place in the team

My statement was in context to henderson. As for your international recognition argument, unless they're playing for England mens, not u21's why mention it at all, hardly vouches for their ability. How many U21 players have you seen not even make it in the prem, i know a good few.
You cant really hide behind a fee...its about if a player is worth the money. A lot of the reserve team opportunities have been because of first team injuries.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 03:22:10 am by MikkeB »

Offline keyo

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,777
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1428 on: June 20, 2011, 03:36:57 am »
My statement was in context to henderson. As for your international recognition argument, unless they're playing for England mens, not u21's why mention it at all, hardly vouches for their ability. How many U21 players have you seen not even make it in the prem, i know a good few.
You cant really hide behind a fee...its about if a player is worth the money. A lot of the reserve team opportunities have been because of first team injuries.

where do i use under-21 representation as proof of their ability....and when you say "in the context of henderson", then why not just say henderson....you are talking about one player, not generally....and the point still stands

jordan henderson - age 21, 1 england cap, 70pl appearances and 4 goals

he has plenty of pl experience, he is good enough to be selected for the england squad, he WILL be competing for a first team place this season (i.e. will be slotting into the first team squad/team)

your point is invalid, we are buying young players who are meant to be first teamers, now and in the future....

the fee?  what of it?  we don't know what it is exactly , but it mens nothing, the management an the board determine what they value the player at.....and they will ultimately pay the price if they get it wrong....it does not impact what we spend elsewhere according to comolli....and the reserve teamers/young lads got opportunities because of injuries - of course they did, very rarely does a 17yo get picked whilst a full squad is available for a league game.....how they are handled determines whether they can take the chance, i.e. if they are comfortable in the squad (been picked before), how the manager uses them, it does not just happen, these players are being brought through to take such opportunities

and if they are good enough they will force themselves into the squad and be ready to take an opportunity whether it comes from an injury or loss of form...signing better players (or players who will compete for a first team place) is always going to occur whether they are young or old, and the only way into the team is to make the manager sit up and notice with attitude and application

so again, stop hiding behind transfer fees and other matters, henderson is a liverpool player and should be judged accordingly, the same as the rest of them
Joey's ate the frogs legs, made the swiss roll, now he's munchin' gladbach!!

Offline DanA

  • misses the Eurovision Glory Days.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,127
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1429 on: June 20, 2011, 03:51:39 am »
Henderson had a shit tournament, there's no getting away from that.  His long range passes were frequently cut out, his tackling and pressure wasn't great and he didn't really open up the opposition with his passing or movement.

There were a lot of signs I liked (if not the performance).  He's bloody quick, seeing him gather that ball and bombing up the left I was surprised by just how quick he was. He bottled it but there is something to work with there.

I liked his short passing and the way he sheilds the ball and worked it out of the back half. He's got a good first touch and and plays nice neat little one-two's. It reminded me a lot of Lucas actually and made the defenders look better than they were IMO

His workrate is excellent as well. He's got a good engine for a young lad and actually his all round athleticism is excellent.

He's not the finished product but I think he has a hell of a lot of potential. With work he could be an excellent DM, CM or RM IMO it does him no favours rotating him through the three positions at this point in his career. I think it's time for him to settle on one of the three postions and try and make it his own.
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline Vishwa Atma

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,854
  • Money for nothing....
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1430 on: June 20, 2011, 04:26:09 am »
First of all we dont even know what is Henderson's transfer fee... Had Sky reported it 13m instead of 20m, i guess the same people wouldnt have any problem with Henderson... Comolli has categorically said that none of the transfer fees being touted about are true, why are we hell bent on sticking a price tag on the player??
I dont understand what some people have issues with transfer fees (Which we dont even know for sure???)... I guess the same people will moan if we miss a signing when we refuse to pay over the top for a player, as it has happened many times in past under Rick Parry... We have the ability to spend for the first time in years, we have the best possible guardian for LFC at the helm, for once why cant people stop bitching about and get behind the team and the player in question???

Offline jckliew

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,208
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1431 on: June 20, 2011, 05:14:03 am »
First of all we dont even know what is Henderson's transfer fee... Had Sky reported it 13m instead of 20m, i guess the same people wouldnt have any problem with Henderson... Comolli has categorically said that none of the transfer fees being touted about are true, why are we hell bent on sticking a price tag on the player??
I dont understand what some people have issues with transfer fees (Which we dont even know for sure???)... I guess the same people will moan if we miss a signing when we refuse to pay over the top for a player, as it has happened many times in past under Rick Parry... We have the ability to spend for the first time in years, we have the best possible guardian for LFC at the helm, for once why cant people stop bitching about and get behind the team and the player in question???
i must admit that i thought the fee was 20mil.

i think most are reacting like so as a result of the 20mil touted price.
Ar 20mil, i would expect that Henderson comes into the team auto like......thats just me
My 12yr old son asked me: Is Blackburn a Racist name?

Offline kenworthy

  • but Deirdre isn't
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,644
  • He hits them from 40 yards...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1432 on: June 20, 2011, 05:23:20 am »
I think the hard work has yet to start for Comolli. To be honest, signing Suarez, Carroll and Henderson for 73m isn't that hard. Now its time for him to start finding the "undocumented" - diamond in the rough types. And don't get me wrong, he is capable. When he was at Arsenal he signed Kolo Toure for 150,000, and Gael Clichy and Emannuel Eboue for even less. He bought Bale for an initial fee of 5m while at Spuds. I'm not sure how much actual "scouting" took place for his first 3 signings. One just came off a brilliant World Cup and was scoring a goal every 1.3 matches for Ajax, the other was already in Capello's starting XI and the third was being called England's best young talent (U21 talent) by folks in the know. What I am looking for is whether Comolli can sign the "Chicharito" type players. After all, he was brought to Anfield to do just that, to scout and find the next batch of LFC stars, not deliver the obvious. And before you yell at me, I think Suarez was a steal at 22m, and we spent 35m on Carroll out of necessity at the end of the January transfer window when prices are generally inflated. That's not my issue. Basically what I am saying is Kenny Dalglish needed zero help in signing Suarez, Carroll and Henderson for 73m... that's a ton of cash. Anyone in the Prem could have sealed those deals with that kind of bank.  So I live in hopes and I am waiting to see what Mr. Comolli will deliver this summer. It better be good, or he isn't worth his salary.
★      ★      ★      ★      ★
77     78     81     84     05
               YNWA

Offline jckliew

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,208
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1433 on: June 20, 2011, 05:27:46 am »
I think the hard work has yet to start for Comolli. To be honest, signing Suarez, Carroll and Henderson for 73m isn't that hard. Now its time for him to start finding the "undocumented" - diamond in the rough types. And don't get me wrong, he is capable. When he was at Arsenal he signed Kolo Toure for 150,000, and Gael Clichy and Emannuel Eboue for even less. He bought Bale for an initial fee of 5m while at Spuds. I'm not sure how much actual "scouting" took place for his first 3 signings. One just came off a brilliant World Cup and was scoring a goal every 1.3 matches for Ajax, the other was already in Capello's starting XI and the third was being called England's best young talent (U21 talent) by folks in the know. What I am looking for is whether Comolli can sign the "Chicharito" type players. After all, he was brought to Anfield to do just that, to scout and find the next batch of LFC stars, not deliver the obvious. And before you yell at me, I think Suarez was a steal at 22m, and we spent 35m on Carroll out of necessity at the end of the January transfer window when prices are generally inflated. That's not my issue. Basically what I am saying is Kenny Dalglish needed zero help in signing Suarez, Carroll and Henderson for 73m... that's a ton of cash. Anyone in the Prem could have sealed those deals with that kind of bank.  So I live in hopes and I am waiting to see what Mr. Comolli will deliver this summer. It better be good, or he isn't worth his salary.

Should be in the Comolli thread......  :)
My 12yr old son asked me: Is Blackburn a Racist name?

Offline kenworthy

  • but Deirdre isn't
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,644
  • He hits them from 40 yards...
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1434 on: June 20, 2011, 05:34:29 am »
Should be in the Comolli thread......  :)

You are right. My apologies. Posted to Comolli thread.
★      ★      ★      ★      ★
77     78     81     84     05
               YNWA

Offline Liverbird 2010

  • but you can call me....likes to giggle a lot but only if it's about fellatio
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,427
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1435 on: June 20, 2011, 07:45:56 am »
The problem with english players is they dont give a shit about the National Team, who out of these U21's and the senior players would you say they would die for the England shirt? Theres no one you only have to look back at the disgraceful display in SA against Germany.  And I am not an England fan but Id be livid paying all that money to go and watch them in SA only for them to make ashow of themselves and England.

I cannot say Ive noticed Henderson play for Sunderland Ive hardly heard his name mentioned to be honest he done one move last night where I though thats excellent if he plays like that for us over 90 minutes doing them forward passes then he will be quality, but he is NOT just yet and seems very raw and I dont think he is suited as a holding midfielder he roams to much we will just have to wait and see.  Kenny & Clarke couldnt wait to get him signed up so he must have something in his locker, you never judge a player playing for England because England are shite as long as he turns it on for us I dont really care, and I just hope those in the media dont go blaming him for Englands woeful tactics it will do him no favours.  All them lads would have prefered to be in Puerto Banus on the piss with all dollybirds than be playing in that tournament.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 08:22:19 am by Liverbird 2010 »
FOOTBALL IS A LIE! RAFAEL BENITEZ :-)

Offline Kopite Downunder

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
  • 5 European Cups and counting
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1436 on: June 20, 2011, 07:55:05 am »
If we paid 16 million for pacheco or suso i can guarantee alot of the pro "british talent " users would be expressing their concern as is the case with alot doubting henderson signing now. Personally i think we paid too much he is average and will probably be warming the bench this season
Its not about the name on the back of the shirt, its about the crest over the heart!

Offline Apollo

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • I've got the
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1437 on: June 20, 2011, 07:57:51 am »
The problem with english players is they dont give a shit about the National Team, who out of these U21's and the senior players would you say they would die for the England shirt? Theres no one you only have to look back at the disgraceful display in SA against Germany.  And I am not an England fan but Id be livid paying all that money to go and watch them in SA only for them to make ashow of themselves and England.

I strongly disagree, I get the impression England players are desperate to win for their national team. It's in the culture, think of EBJT and the three lions. The only player I can think of who doesn't seem to give a shit about it is Ashley Cole, who ironically enough is probably one of the most consistent players for England. I feel that "wanting it more" just doesn't really come in to how a team performs at this level, I think most national teams are very keen to win their matches...the thing is, people like Stuart Pearce, who would have you believe national teams have a "football DNA" according to which they are all doomed to adhere, seem to believe that the English "football DNA" comes down to "wanting to win a lot". You couldn't rightly point to the Spain U21 team and say they gave more of a shit than England, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset with Henderson for losing with the U21s or for having a somewhat poor tournament, he was managed very poorly and playing with fairly poor players. He'll be great for us next season. England will continue to be shite, though, until they find a solution to management, which seems to be an impossible problem for them.

Offline Discipline

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,073
Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn't matter which color does the hating. It's just plain wrong.

Muhammad Ali

Offline Liverbird 2010

  • but you can call me....likes to giggle a lot but only if it's about fellatio
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,427
Re: Jordan Henderson-Officially a Liverpool player- Discussion
« Reply #1439 on: June 20, 2011, 08:07:55 am »
I strongly disagree, I get the impression England players are desperate to win for their national team. It's in the culture, think of EBJT and the three lions. The only player I can think of who doesn't seem to give a shit about it is Ashley Cole, who ironically enough is probably one of the most consistent players for England. I feel that "wanting it more" just doesn't really come in to how a team performs at this level, I think most national teams are very keen to win their matches...the thing is, people like Stuart Pearce, who would have you believe national teams have a "football DNA" according to which they are all doomed to adhere, seem to believe that the English "football DNA" comes down to "wanting to win a lot". You couldn't rightly point to the Spain U21 team and say they gave more of a shit than England, in my opinion.

Sorry mate I disagree, The Argie's, The Dutch , Spanish, Germans, even the likes of Polland and some African teams they give their all in tournaments their players want to win for their country it doesnt matter who Englands manager is the players have no pride in the country and go out at all costs to win.  One of the reasons that doesnt help either is the money they get paid they think they are fuckin great when they are not.  I am not saying all english players are shit there are some excellent players but as a team they fail miserably.  Pearce is a crap manager but Capello is one of the best around England would probably be more successfull if they played a team full of none prima donna's but that would never be aloud to happen. Big JT, Lamps, Wazza etc all have to play ::)
FOOTBALL IS A LIE! RAFAEL BENITEZ :-)