Author Topic: Arsenal  (Read 5718590 times)

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41160 on: January 28, 2017, 09:37:33 pm »
We can but we can forget about winning it, the squad depth isn't there in the slightest.
I disagree but there you go, he wants to go out on a high like whisky nose did, if he stays lets see what Arsenal do in the summer. He knows the patience of the fans is wearing thin so I expect him to invest in a couple of quality players and go for it.

Although there's a chance you might lose Sanchez which would be devasting based on his stats this season.

I don't disagree with you there. But finishing in the top four will be good for us in the long run, and give us extra funds.
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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41161 on: January 28, 2017, 09:48:33 pm »
I don't disagree with you there. But finishing in the top four will be good for us in the long run, and give us extra funds.
I suddenly feel a lot more confident about this in the last few minutes.
Then in the midddle out pops a smiling glen johnson pulling up his jersey to reveal a t-shirt of suarez with a text saying. "OUR SUAREZ IS A FRIEND TO ALL COLOURS!"

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41162 on: January 28, 2017, 10:08:49 pm »
I suddenly feel a lot more confident about this in the last few minutes.

Things change quickly in football, for good and worse, we're in a much better position in the league than we have been in years.

Offline MagicHat

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41163 on: January 29, 2017, 10:02:31 am »
Bould for manager ;)

I know it has been a bad month (and dreadful week) for a variety of reasons for Liverpool, some of which is short term, some needs addressing in summer+coaching, but if they finish top 4, I would call that a successful season for them. Next season though might be a case of ensuring they stay in CL before pushing on further.

We can but we can forget about winning it, the squad depth isn't there in the slightest.
I disagree but there you go, he wants to go out on a high like whisky nose did, if he stays lets see what Arsenal do in the summer. He knows the patience of the fans is wearing thin so I expect him to invest in a couple of quality players and go for it.

Like last summer? This season was the one where Wenger's contract running out and needing to show he could take us onto next level, he has spent big and showed ambition in the transfer market.

Quote
I understand it though, I know quite a few Arsenal fans and one word to describe them is bipolar. One week Wenger is expendable and the next he's a great manager.

For me, Wenger is a good manager who is doing a reasonable job but has gone as far as he can with us and he has struggled to fix certain flaws. Given the immense resources of the club for every summer, the quality of the squad we already have, I feel that with the right appointment we can go further to where we can actually put in a genuine league challenge (if Chelsea do a near invisible type season, a strong second ala Chelsea in our invincible year), where CL might involve a run beyond the first knock outs (though this year could well be beyond our abilities, been other years where we should have been able to get through at least once). Wenger being replaced won't magically solve the problems, the board aren't setting the right tone for example, and there are a hell of a lot worse managers out there, replacing Wenger could go horribly wrong or if we get it right, see us fulfil our potential. Which isn't a Bayern/Real level, anyone suggesting we could get anywhere near that with our next appointment is being ridiculous

Wenger could achieve what I feel is required to show we have pushed on this season and he deserves the rest of the season. Am I sceptical he will push on and take us to a new level? Yes.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 10:05:27 am by MagicHat »

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41164 on: January 29, 2017, 11:10:15 am »
Bould for manager ;)

I know it has been a bad month (and dreadful week) for a variety of reasons for Liverpool, some of which is short term, some needs addressing in summer+coaching, but if they finish top 4, I would call that a successful season for them. Next season though might be a case of ensuring they stay in CL before pushing on further.

Like last summer? This season was the one where Wenger's contract running out and needing to show he could take us onto next level, he has spent big and showed ambition in the transfer market.

For me, Wenger is a good manager who is doing a reasonable job but has gone as far as he can with us and he has struggled to fix certain flaws. Given the immense resources of the club for every summer, the quality of the squad we already have, I feel that with the right appointment we can go further to where we can actually put in a genuine league challenge (if Chelsea do a near invisible type season, a strong second ala Chelsea in our invincible year), where CL might involve a run beyond the first knock outs (though this year could well be beyond our abilities, been other years where we should have been able to get through at least once). Wenger being replaced won't magically solve the problems, the board aren't setting the right tone for example, and there are a hell of a lot worse managers out there, replacing Wenger could go horribly wrong or if we get it right, see us fulfil our potential. Which isn't a Bayern/Real level, anyone suggesting we could get anywhere near that with our next appointment is being ridiculous

Wenger could achieve what I feel is required to show we have pushed on this season and he deserves the rest of the season. Am I sceptical he will push on and take us to a new level? Yes.

Our highest paid player is on 140k a week and we should be winning the title because of our resources..... There are teams in the same league as us that pay that for squad players. We need to drop the resources arguments, we are a distant 4th in that.
But if there was a manager that will move us up a level on Wenger, which means winning leagues and CLs, on our resources. Then we need to get him in asap.
Until then , I'll enjoy our good football, our good players, the odd trophy, and regular trips to Wembley and big cl ties. Hoping we can go one step better because of our manager, and in spite of our financial model, not that I'm criticising it, it's just reality. A concept not familiar to many arsenal fans.

Offline MagicHat

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41165 on: January 29, 2017, 12:15:17 pm »
Sorry, when did I say we should be winning the title? Point that out to me.

Mistakes happen but with you, it somehow always seems to be you changing others views to something ridiculous so you can claim anyone who disagrees with you is being unreasonable, out of touch with reality. Maybe you should start using reality as the foundation for your debates, not what your imagination tells you people like me are saying as you can create your own comfort blanket? :)

We are one of the richest clubs in Europe (let along England) who can afford the likes of Ozil and Sanchez, have one of the highest paid managers in the world, modern facilities (thanks to Wenger and the board), the lure of London. We have a lot of resources and lures to offer, not Madrid or Bayern level but still a lot. I agree with our finical model actually, we must always seek to be self sustaining and have always argued against those who say the equivalent of "gamble a little" with the finances or that we must Chelsea/Man City it.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 12:24:43 pm by MagicHat »

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41166 on: January 29, 2017, 12:51:32 pm »
Sorry, when did I say we should be winning the title? Point that out to me.

Mistakes happen but with you, it somehow always seems to be you changing others views to something ridiculous so you can claim anyone who disagrees with you is being unreasonable, out of touch with reality. Maybe you should start using reality as the foundation for your debates, not what your imagination tells you people like me are saying as you can create your own comfort blanket? :)

We are one of the richest clubs in Europe (let along England) who can afford the likes of Ozil and Sanchez, have one of the highest paid managers in the world, modern facilities (thanks to Wenger and the board), the lure of London. We have a lot of resources and lures to offer, not Madrid or Bayern level but still a lot. I agree with our finical model actually, we must always seek to be self sustaining and have always argued against those who say the equivalent of "gamble a little" with the finances or that we must Chelsea/Man City it.

I wasn't directing my comments at you, just the general common misconceptions that the media paddle and most arsenal fans believe.
I actually agree with most things you said.
We can't use the financial argument unless we have the most financial muscle. Everton and Bournemouth are also one of the richest teams in Europe. If you're in the premiere league, you're automatically one of the richest teams in Europe. It doesn't stop you getting relegated.
Until we can offer more money than Chelsea city and united, we can't use finances as an advantage to us, no matter how rich we are.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 12:55:56 pm by The North Bank »

Offline MagicHat

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41167 on: January 30, 2017, 12:43:56 pm »
We don't have the most finical muscle but we seem to have more then the Dortmund's, the Atheltico's, the Leicester's who have won titles.

Your right, if all the richer clubs spend properly and are properly managed, our chances of more then third are limited and there are going to be seasons where we can't put in a challenge becuase other teams are simply too good. Fine, as long as we keep improving enough (this season, we have done that going forward, defensively gone backwards arguably). When the richer clubs mess up and a title challenge is possible, we should be trying to take advantage. This is not something we have managed for awhile.

Offline sinnermichael

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41168 on: January 30, 2017, 04:40:10 pm »
Jenkinson must have a high opinion of himself if Palace can't afford to sign him because of his wage demands. How much is he on at Arsenal? He hardly ever plays.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41169 on: January 30, 2017, 04:56:01 pm »
Jenkinson must have a high opinion of himself if Palace can't afford to sign him because of his wage demands. How much is he on at Arsenal? He hardly ever plays.

I used to have a class in Uni with a lad who looks the absolute spit of Jenkinson. He was a twat. By that logic, Jenkinson is also a twat.

Horribly mediocre player on his best day.

Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41170 on: January 30, 2017, 05:06:21 pm »
We don't have the most finical muscle but we seem to have more then the Dortmund's, the Atheltico's, the Leicester's who have won titles.

Your right, if all the richer clubs spend properly and are properly managed, our chances of more then third are limited and there are going to be seasons where we can't put in a challenge becuase other teams are simply too good. Fine, as long as we keep improving enough (this season, we have done that going forward, defensively gone backwards arguably). When the richer clubs mess up and a title challenge is possible, we should be trying to take advantage. This is not something we have managed for awhile.
Arsenal is riddled with cash. We spent huge money on wages and transfers. We spent over 35+ million on Xhaka who is hardly a big name.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41171 on: January 30, 2017, 05:11:29 pm »
Arsenal is riddled with cash. We spent huge money on wages and transfers. We spent over 35+ million on Xhaka who is hardly a big name.

United spent 90m on Pogba and gave him 300k a week.
We are riddled with cash, just not as riddled as others.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41172 on: January 30, 2017, 05:14:02 pm »
We don't have the most finical muscle but we seem to have more then the Dortmund's, the Atheltico's, the Leicester's who have won titles.

Your right, if all the richer clubs spend properly and are properly managed, our chances of more then third are limited and there are going to be seasons where we can't put in a challenge becuase other teams are simply too good. Fine, as long as we keep improving enough (this season, we have done that going forward, defensively gone backwards arguably). When the richer clubs mess up and a title challenge is possible, we should be trying to take advantage. This is not something we have managed for awhile.

I agree that we could have done better, but we could also have done much worse, and on balance the situation is still very positive. Until the situation turns bad I won't call for the manager to go.

Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41173 on: January 30, 2017, 05:14:58 pm »
United spent 90m on Pogba and gave him 300k a week.
We are riddled with cash, just not as riddled as others.
We don't need to spend more than Man Utd to win the league. We spend plenty of money. Money is not the issue. The issue is the manager who has failed to win the league for 12 years now, going on 13 for this season. Arsenal is given plenty of investment for players.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41174 on: January 30, 2017, 05:32:57 pm »
We don't need to spend more than Man Utd to win the league. We spend plenty of money. Money is not the issue. The issue is the manager who has failed to win the league for 12 years now, going on 13 for this season. Arsenal is given plenty of investment for players.

Money is the issue, its the reason van persie left us, it's the reason adebayor left us, its the reason nasri hleb song etc etc. Its the reason Sanchez and Ozil haven't signed new deals. Its the reason our progress was halted for years while the stadium debts were serviced. If you can't see that then maybe you're a new arrival on the bandwagon who doesn't know the full story.
Apart from Leicester's freaky season which will never be repeated. The richest teams who spend the most money win the league every season since the premier league was formed. Thats what made Chelsea champions from nowhere, City champions from nowhere, United blew everyone out of the water before Roman and the sheikh turned up, the only manager who won leagues without breaking transfer records was arsene Wenger. He should be sacked for not continuing to overachieve. .
I'd like to know who you want to replace him.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 05:36:24 pm by The North Bank »

Offline Ashburton

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41175 on: January 30, 2017, 05:36:56 pm »
I agree that we could have done better, but we could also have done much worse, and on balance the situation is still very positive. Until the situation turns bad I won't call for the manager to go.

This is where I am at the moment, some shit transfers, some good ones,  probably too much money in the bank and not on the field - but honestly you look at Liverpool buying expensive shite and flogging them off, or even Man Utd or City and you wonder whether the value is rare rather than the norm.

My concern is that we flatter to deceive in most of the recent seasons.  I wouldn't have objected to losing the title to Leicester if it went to the last game (which it easily could have), however the fact that the team isn't good enough at putting teams to the sword is what is holding us back.  I don't expect anything against Bayern, but I would be extremely frustrated if Chelsea go run away with it.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41176 on: January 30, 2017, 05:37:12 pm »
Money is the issue, its the reason van persie left us, it's the reason adebayor left us, its the reason nasri hleb song etc etc. Its the reason Sanchez and Ozil haven't signed new deals.

In all fairness the situation is completely different now than it was when those players left. It's obvious that Arsenal have the money now, there just appears to be a reluctance to use it.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41177 on: January 30, 2017, 05:38:02 pm »
Jenkinson must have a high opinion of himself if Palace can't afford to sign him because of his wage demands. How much is he on at Arsenal? He hardly ever plays.

Couple of appearances in the champions league and he thinks hes Cafu. I dont know what hes on but id be shocked if its more than 40k a week. I think hes looking for a significant pay rise.

Offline Ashburton

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41178 on: January 30, 2017, 05:42:37 pm »
Couple of appearances in the champions league and he thinks hes Cafu. I dont know what hes on but id be shocked if its more than 40k a week. I think hes looking for a significant pay rise.

Probably Palace want to give him a pay cut, and he'd rather be posting instagram shots of him having dinner with Ozil and the lads than putting in the hours.  Only good attributes are that he's quick, and has a good cross.  Plus seems to be alright with the banter.  Other than that he's lower division standard and has made himself 4th choice behind Gabriel.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41179 on: January 30, 2017, 05:42:47 pm »
In all fairness the situation is completely different now than it was when those players left. It's obvious that Arsenal have the money now, there's just a reluctance to use it.

Those years when we were standing still set us back a lot, last 3 years we have been financially strong, weve won 2 cups, finished second and are second now. Not ideal, not what we want, but not a disaster. Many big clubs would take that.
My main point is that we cant use financial muscle as a reason to back our expectations to win titles, because there are 3 teams in our league who are far richer than us.

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41180 on: January 30, 2017, 05:48:09 pm »
Apart from Leicester's freaky season which will never be repeated. The richest teams who spend the most money win the league every season since the premier league was formed. Thats what made Chelsea champions from nowhere, City champions from nowhere, United blew everyone out of the water before Roman and the sheikh turned up, the only manager who won leagues without breaking transfer records was arsene Wenger. He should be sacked for not continuing to overachieve. .

That's absolute nonsense. Chelsea are actually lagging way behind Man Utd & Man City in terms of wages and player fees over the last few years, yet look like winning their 2nd title in 3 years. Ranieri did it last year. Simeone usurped much richer clubs in Spain and Klopp won 2 titles recently with a side much poorer than Munich. All since Wenger even challenged for (let alone won) a big trophy.

It's a decent rule of thumb to assume the richest club will always win the league, but it's by no means a rare occurrance when that doesn't happen.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 05:53:39 pm by Xabi Gerrard »

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41181 on: January 30, 2017, 05:49:18 pm »
Why does Wenger think people want to lock him up with no heating?  :o
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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41182 on: January 30, 2017, 06:01:21 pm »
That's absolute nonsense. Chelsea are actually lagging way behind Man Utd & Man City in terms of wages and player fees over the last few years, yet look like winning their 2nd title in 3 years. Ranieri did it last year. Simeone usurped much richer clubs in Spain and Klopp won 2 titles recently with a side much poorer than Munich. All since Wenger even challenged for (let alone won) a big trophy.

It's a decent rule of thumb to assume the richest club will always win the league, but it's by no means a rare occurrance when that doesn't happen.

Before chelsea won the lottery theyd won no titles in 50 years, City were perenial relegation strugglers. All their success started with money, after the first billion, it sure gets easier. If they lag behind city and united, then we lag behind all 3.
What leciester did was just mental, this season theyre back to being leciester, theyre the only exception.
Wenger could have done better, I dont think hes had a single season where he underachieved though.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41183 on: January 30, 2017, 06:03:26 pm »
Money is the issue, its the reason van persie left us, it's the reason adebayor left us, its the reason nasri hleb song etc etc. Its the reason Sanchez and Ozil haven't signed new deals. Its the reason our progress was halted for years while the stadium debts were serviced. If you can't see that then maybe you're a new arrival on the bandwagon who doesn't know the full story.
Apart from Leicester's freaky season which will never be repeated. The richest teams who spend the most money win the league every season since the premier league was formed. Thats what made Chelsea champions from nowhere, City champions from nowhere, United blew everyone out of the water before Roman and the sheikh turned up, the only manager who won leagues without breaking transfer records was arsene Wenger. He should be sacked for not continuing to overachieve. .
I'd like to know who you want to replace him.
All I see is excuses. Money is NOT the issue. When you are buying world class players like Ozil and Alexis Sanchez and paying 35 million for a run of the mill midfielder, then it is not an issue. This is not 2009 anymore North Bank. You are living in the past regarding Arsenal.


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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41184 on: January 30, 2017, 06:17:03 pm »
All I see is excuses. Money is NOT the issue. When you are buying world class players like Ozil and Alexis Sanchez and paying 35 million for a run of the mill midfielder, then it is not an issue. This is not 2009 anymore North Bank. You are living in the past regarding Arsenal.

We are doing better, but nowhere near others. City spend 50m on a defender and stick him on bench, alongside another 40m defender. United spend every summer what we spend in 10 years. And chelsea have been paying players over 250 k a week for 4 years now.
We are miles behind those, our highest paid player is still 140k, we are closer to liverpool and spurs than to city chelsea and United.
As a business we are very sound, but  our competitors arent all businesses. We can still hope to do better on the pitch, but to expect it is a bit unrealistic.

Offline CrasherKid79

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41185 on: January 30, 2017, 07:16:42 pm »
All I see is excuses. Money is NOT the issue. When you are buying world class players like Ozil and Alexis Sanchez and paying 35 million for a run of the mill midfielder, then it is not an issue. This is not 2009 anymore North Bank. You are living in the past regarding Arsenal.

Well your amongst friends if your living in the past. I've been living in the late 80s all my football supporting life ..... we really are rather good !  ;D
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 07:33:00 pm by CrasherKid79 »

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41186 on: January 30, 2017, 07:23:43 pm »
Sutton united away. Haha

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41187 on: January 30, 2017, 07:27:50 pm »
Hoping for the cups greatest upset

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41188 on: January 30, 2017, 07:29:28 pm »
Jenkinson must have a high opinion of himself if Palace can't afford to sign him because of his wage demands. How much is he on at Arsenal? He hardly ever plays.

To be fair if I was playing for Arsenal, even as a back up, I'd be demanding quite a lot to play for Palace under the fat one.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41189 on: January 30, 2017, 07:31:59 pm »
Hoping for the cups greatest upset

Would an Arsenal victory really surprise you that much?

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41190 on: January 30, 2017, 07:37:56 pm »
It will either be a good progress to the quarter final or the greatest video uploads on Arsenalfantv history.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41191 on: January 30, 2017, 07:46:30 pm »
It will either be a good progress to the quarter final or the greatest video uploads on Arsenalfantv history.

And The North Bank will say you can't expect any more from Wenger because he doesn't get spend £90m & £300k/week on Pogba  :-*

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41192 on: January 30, 2017, 07:52:24 pm »
And The North Bank will say you can't expect any more from Wenger because he doesn't get spend £90m & £300k/week on Pogba  :-*

Wenger owns the fa cup. Could be his 7th win this season

I'd still blame the plastic pitch!

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41193 on: January 31, 2017, 01:45:10 pm »
If we lost to Sutton, we were trying to help the fairytale. ;)

I think the split with North Bank is just a few differences. I perhaps rate the squad's potential higher, I see the likes of Athetlico and Dortmund so wish for more from us while he looks at the many clubs who mess up and is understandably wary, I'm perhaps more ruthless in football terms with a fear we have got trapped into a mentality so we can't take advantage of opportunities and North Bank is understandably more cautoius and doesn't want to risk (which it nearly always is, whoever you get in) the down side. Which I can respect

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41194 on: January 31, 2017, 02:13:18 pm »
If we lost to Sutton, we were trying to help the fairytale. ;)

I think the split with North Bank is just a few differences. I perhaps rate the squad's potential higher, I see the likes of Athetlico and Dortmund so wish for more from us while he looks at the many clubs who mess up and is understandably wary, I'm perhaps more ruthless in football terms with a fear we have got trapped into a mentality so we can't take advantage of opportunities and North Bank is understandably more cautoius and doesn't want to risk (which it nearly always is, whoever you get in) the down side. Which I can respect

I agree that Dortmund and Atletico are great examples of overachieving, but the premier league is a different ball game in terms of squad demands, even if the quality is not superior,  the competitive nature of the league means a big squad is a must. Klopp is probably a casing point, for half a season Liverpool have probably been the best team around. Now that squad strength, depth, and basically the money advantage kicked in, they look short.
 In other leagues you get a few freebie matches a season, where you can win at training session pace so you can get by better on a well drilled 11 and good tactics.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41195 on: January 31, 2017, 03:06:04 pm »
What did we think of the youngsters performance in the Southampton match? I thought Jeff showed a few glimpses of his potential, was actually good to see Naitland-Miles in midfield rather than right back, where he looked much more assured.

Was good to see the Ox having a good game centrally as well, perhaps given the personnel missing there it could be a good time to give him a run in that position to see if he can perform consistently, or was that just another 1 of his flash in the pan performances?

Offline DivisiveNewSigning

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41196 on: January 31, 2017, 03:48:10 pm »
What did we think of the youngsters performance in the Southampton match? I thought Jeff showed a few glimpses of his potential, was actually good to see Naitland-Miles in midfield rather than right back, where he looked much more assured.

Was good to see the Ox having a good game centrally as well, perhaps given the personnel missing there it could be a good time to give him a run in that position to see if he can perform consistently, or was that just another 1 of his flash in the pan performances?

I like Oxlade-Chamberlain but he'll never ever be a CM.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41197 on: January 31, 2017, 05:06:38 pm »
I like Oxlade-Chamberlain but he'll never ever be a CM.

I have my severe doubts as well but his performance at Southampton was a bit of a shock & a reminder to Arsenal fans of the qualities he has. Of course, we have to be aware how weak the Southampton team was. People including Wenger have talked about his qualities in that position for a while. I think he'd probably suit a team that plays more 433 like Liverpool do, perhaps in the role similar to what Lallana does. Doubt he'd fit in well in a 4231 that we do now.

Still, like I said, he's had good to great games before then gone on to be distinctly average the next few weeks, that's been his biggest problem in any position.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41198 on: January 31, 2017, 05:33:11 pm »
Attacking midfielder. Not a winger.

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Re: General Arsenal Thread
« Reply #41199 on: January 31, 2017, 06:33:33 pm »
I like Oxlade-Chamberlain but he'll never ever be a CM.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't watch Arsenal often, although I was at the Emirates in 2012 when they beat AC Milan 3-0 in the Champions League. Wenger started Oxlade-Chamberlain in midfield that night and everyone seemed perplexed by his decision, but he ran the show that night. Keep in mind he was only 18 at the time.
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