Topic: Arsenal

[Achilles Heel]

In the first game Burnley players clearly saved shots with outstretched arms in the box, nothing was given.
The mustafi push was as blatant as the Burnley pen. He was elbowed in the face too and not even a card given.
Against Everton Sanchez was blatantly tripped in the box in injury time, the ref played on, same as against Sunderland.
Against Bournemouth the most blatant push on bellerin was not given for their third and a less push on their player was awarded with a pen.
Against city 2 offside goals.
I don't understand this tag of being lucky. We have had some shockers by refs this season, even the xhaka red , I've seen Rojo do much worse every week and get away with it.

You lose all credibility when you claim City had 2 offside goals.  Even Arsenal Untold (ridculously biased site)  in their detailed ref review of the game didn't stretch to that let alone ex-refs and the whole bloody media.

[Iska]

It certainly is, in fact there are two !!

I love that.  They could only be more Arsenal if they were knitted.

[The North Bank]

You lose all credibility when you claim City had 2 offside goals.  Even Arsenal Untold (ridculously biased site)  in their detailed ref review of the game didn't stretch to that let alone ex-refs and the whole bloody media.

Try watching the game instead of reading about it. When you do watch it, if you do understand the rules, then you will see that both goals were offside.

[child-in-time]

Try watching the game instead of reading about it. When you do watch it, if you do understand the rules, then you will see that both goals were offside.

Boo hoo.

[Achilles Heel]

Try watching the game instead of reading about it. When you do watch it, if you do understand the rules, then you will see that both goals were offside.

BOTH  goals offside, eh? Ha,ha,ha...

And, we both know you are talking nonsense don't we? 

In fact your comeback is about as a good as Arsenal's away record against the top 9 teams for the last 3 1/2 seasons. I know you like your facts but what is it now? I make it W3 D9 L 15 .   And you've got 5 more to play yet this season.

[El Lobo]

They were both offside though weren't they? 

[The North Bank]

They were both offside though weren't they? 

Yeh, they were.

[The North Bank]

BOTH  goals offside, eh? Ha,ha,ha...

And, we both know you are talking nonsense don't we? 

In fact your comeback is about as a good as Arsenal's away record against the top 9 teams for the last 3 1/2 seasons. I know you like your facts but what is it now? I make it W3 D9 L 15 .   And you've got 5 more to play yet this season.

We all have an Achilles heel. A real weak point. Yours seems to be football.

[Cliff Bastin]

It's simple, the highlights only usually show the 'goal' incidents, only fans of that club would be watching the full 90 and wondering why Mustafi got elbowed twice and tripped in the box, yet got nothing for it.  Yet somehow because a Burnley player kicks Koscielny in the head in the box it's "lucky".

Di Matteo and Mourinho might have something to say about that.

I don't agree with the 'deserve', I think just because you have "bigger" players and a larger fanbase, doesn't mean smaller teams need to roll over and give you 3 points.  If they want to defend for 90 minutes, be well drilled and stifle the better team then I don't see anything wrong with that - it is up to the team to carve a way through.   Indeed up until Xhaka's red card I felt the game was going to open out to a 2-0 or 3-0 once Burnley had to push forward seeing their equaliser.

But they do roll over in the sense that they play in a way which is just waiting to lose. If you have a few top players, they will the majority of the time break it down and score. They should be putting more forward and trying to score.

[MagicHat]

The penalty on Mustafi, not so clear violation, is it? Thinking of it, a similar situation in basically the same exact part of the pitch happened on Chelsea vs Hull and that was clear cut.

Blatant penalty. Maybe not from the officials angle but Burnley got luck in both games at some moments, didn't at others.

I think Dyche has done a fantastic job at Burnley, he does seem someone who does learn but in their home game, they did retreat too early to hold and in the recent game, they went too defensive. Nothing wrong with being defensive, they are well organized and good defence but where they went wrong is they also need a threat. Grey had one or two moments in first half but was too isolated to take advantage, there was nobody else providing any attacking thrust. This plays right into our hands, we can take control, teams tire and we will 99 times out of 100 break through. Play defensive but with the raids that force us to turn back and defend for spells? That provides a challenge that gives them more of a chance.

[Ashburton]

But they do roll over in the sense that they play in a way which is just waiting to lose. If you have a few top players, they will the majority of the time break it down and score. They should be putting more forward and trying to score.

Well yes, the top teams win the majority of the time, because they have the best players.  But I'm not going to advocate to spend 90 minutes attacking Barcelona because whilst it might give us a better chance to score, the space left behind are more likely to be exploited by better players, to allow them to score instead.  Presumably Burnley thought the same, keep it tight, nick something on the break, maybe a pen.

I do believe Burnley needed to transition to more of an attacking game, especially once Xhaka got sent off, and they didn't seem to have enough organisation to do as quickly as they'd have liked.  I'm more concerned with Arsenal taking until the second half to get going, in pretty much every game this season.  Some massive away games coming up and the side needs to get out of the blocks, I doubt Wenger can pull an inspirational half time speech every single week.

[Cliff Bastin]

Well yes, the top teams win the majority of the time, because they have the best players.  But I'm not going to advocate to spend 90 minutes attacking Barcelona because whilst it might give us a better chance to score, the space left behind are more likely to be exploited by better players, to allow them to score instead.  Presumably Burnley thought the same, keep it tight, nick something on the break, maybe a pen.

I do believe Burnley needed to transition to more of an attacking game, especially once Xhaka got sent off, and they didn't seem to have enough organisation to do as quickly as they'd have liked.  I'm more concerned with Arsenal taking until the second half to get going, in pretty much every game this season.  Some massive away games coming up and the side needs to get out of the blocks, I doubt Wenger can pull an inspirational half time speech every single week.

We have played in limbo for much of the season. But its what we do from now until May that really counts in the league, FA cup and Champions League. I just want a respectable performance over both legs against Bayern and with a bit of luck we can beat them.

[Medellin]

Is it just a coincidence that every time someone gets banned for whatever..their return to the game is against us?

Wenger..4 game ban.
Returns..guess when? 

[sinnermichael]

The £25k fine is an insult. Sagna got £40k for an online post.

[Cliff Bastin]

Shocked at the score line at Anfield! Should be a good game at Southampton today.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Shocked at the score line at Anfield! Should be a good game at Southampton today.

 

Someone ban this prick, that's not even subtle

[Greatness]

For what he's not done anything wrong, the arsenal fans are good bunch considering some of the shite posted on here.

 The whole thread is full of repeated tired old shite of Arsenal bottling all the time, despite them actually winning stuff recently .

Surprised the Arsenal fans still post on this thread fair play to them.

[The North Bank]

For what he's not done anything wrong, the arsenal fans are good bunch considering some of the shite posted on here.

 The whole thread is full of repeated tired old shite of Arsenal bottling all the time, despite them actually winning stuff recently .

Surprised the Arsenal fans still post on this thread fair play to them.

This is still a Liverpool forum, we are the guests here and should remember that.
Having said all that, I do hope that some of our fans who want "anyone but Wenger" take stock of what other teams are having to go through to get it right. And appreciate that we do still have a top manager in a very competitive environment where resources are not evenly spread.
It does shock me what is happening at Liverpool, the football you played up to man city at home, was the best in the league by some distance, runs in behind, passing and moving, goals galore, great touches and skill. I admit I was envious and a bit jealous. Fuck knows whats happened to you since.

[Ashburton]

This is still a Liverpool forum, we are the guests here and should remember that.
Having said all that, I do hope that some of our fans who want "anyone but Wenger" take stock of what other teams are having to go through to get it right. And appreciate that we do still have a top manager in a very competitive environment where resources are not evenly spread.
It does shock me what is happening at Liverpool, the football you played up to man city at home, was the best in the league by some distance, runs in behind, passing and moving, goals galore, great touches and skill. I admit I was envious and a bit jealous. Fuck knows whats happened to you since.

There's still time for Lpool to pull out of the dive, but I believe it all seems to come from them not currently having a plan B, looked absolutely toothless against Wolves today, and two dives in the box as well as booing at half time against Championship opposition was embarrassing.

[Greatness]

This mate should be greatful for what you have, I'd kill to see Liverpool win a trophy again it's been almost 5 years since the last one , and only 1 in the last 10 decade. Winning back to back Fa cups should not be snuffed at. So many other sides with long trophy droughts who are begging to win any kind of silverware. I.e Ourselves Spurs e.t.c

[Cliff Bastin]

This is still a Liverpool forum, we are the guests here and should remember that.
Having said all that, I do hope that some of our fans who want "anyone but Wenger" take stock of what other teams are having to go through to get it right. And appreciate that we do still have a top manager in a very competitive environment where resources are not evenly spread.
It does shock me what is happening at Liverpool, the football you played up to man city at home, was the best in the league by some distance, runs in behind, passing and moving, goals galore, great touches and skill. I admit I was envious and a bit jealous. Fuck knows whats happened to you since.

Why would you be jealous though really? I know it is a Liverpool forum but you have to be honest too.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

This is still a Liverpool forum, we are the guests here and should remember that.
Having said all that, I do hope that some of our fans who want "anyone but Wenger" take stock of what other teams are having to go through to get it right. And appreciate that we do still have a top manager in a very competitive environment where resources are not evenly spread.
It does shock me what is happening at Liverpool, the football you played up to man city at home, was the best in the league by some distance, runs in behind, passing and moving, goals galore, great touches and skill. I admit I was envious and a bit jealous. Fuck knows whats happened to you since.

Too many matches for us and this squad we have, the injury to Coutinho really fucked things up for us  [and Matip] as we had to make a shift to how Firmino plays. But the icing on a very shite cake was Mane leaving this month. Now we're out of form, out of confidence, stretched thin.

[thelinnen]

Why would you be jealous though really? I know it is a Liverpool forum but you have to be honest too.

I'd imagine he felt pretty jealous when we battered you at home.

That seems a long time ago mind.

[The North Bank]

Why would you be jealous though really? I know it is a Liverpool forum but you have to be honest too.

They were blowing teams apart while we were stuttering to results. At times they reminded me of old arsenal teams with the way they swarmed forward. This is how I want us to play, I remember after our bore home draw with spurs , I went to the pub to watch them destroy Watford, and I thought I'd seen the champions that day, and it wasn't us, that's why I was jealous.
I absolutely did not see their collapse coming. It can't be that they're all tired at the same time, and it can't just be Mane, I have no idea how you go from brilliant to ridiculous so quick.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

They were blowing teams apart while we were stuttering to results. At times they reminded me of old arsenal teams with the way they swarmed forward. This is how I want us to play, I remember after our bore home draw with spurs , I went to the pub to watch them destroy Watford, and I thought I'd seen the champions that day, and it wasn't us, that's why I was jealous.
I absolutely did not see their collapse coming. It can't be that they're all tired at the same time, and it can't just be Mane, I have no idea how you go from brilliant to ridiculous so quick.

It's a combination of multiple things. We did not prepare accordingly to the month of January despite being fully aware of what was to come. The injury to Coutinho shifted things up front, then the injury to Matip, the amount of games and the way we play football has derailed us and of course without Mane, there is no threat in behind. Henderson is injured again and struggling, Firmino has dropped in performances, Origi and Sturridge have been poor. It's gone bad at the same time from multiple sides.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Why would you be jealous though really? I know it is a Liverpool forum but you have to be honest too.

Have you already deemed that Klopp is some kind of failure? At least give him a couple of years to make his mark ffs, judge him at the end of next season. Maybe by then you'll be right and we'll all see Wenger was the better manager, but it's too early to say that now.

I don't think it's outlandish for people to suggest Wenger should be replaced. Gooners like you justifying keeping Wenger by pointing out struggling new managers elsewhere always seem to completely ignore all the succesful new managers different clubs have brought in since Arsenal last acted their size.

Personally I'd be wanting more as an Arsenal fan than what Wenger has delivered. I'd want a challenge for the title and CL most seasons. I don't get why so many Arsenal fans are so content with never doing either of these (last title challenge 2008, last half decent European challenge 2009). To me that's not good enough for Arsenal. Wenger shows year after year that he's not capable of it so what other option do you have but to take a risk and change? Would you really be that heartbroken if a new manager doesn't achieve playing in the CL group stages and winning a tin pot trophy every once in a while? Really?? That shouldn't be the height of Goon ambitions. Great for the owners though of course. 

[The North Bank]

Have you already deemed that Klopp is some kind of failure? At least give him a couple of years to make his mark ffs, judge him at the end of next season. Maybe by then you'll be right and we'll all see Wenger was the better manager, but it's too early to say that now.

I don't think it's outlandish for people to suggest Wenger should be replaced. Gooners like you justifying keeping Wenger by pointing out struggling new managers elsewhere always seem to completely ignore all the succesful new managers different clubs have brought in since Arsenal last acted their size.

Personally I'd be wanting more as an Arsenal fan than what Wenger has delivered. I'd want a challenge for the title and CL most seasons. I don't get why so many Arsenal fans are so content with never doing either of these (last title challenge 2008, last half decent European challenge 2009). To me that's not good enough for Arsenal. Wenger shows year after year that he's not capable of it so what other option do you have but to take a risk and change? Would you really be that heartbroken if a new manager doesn't achieve playing in the CL group stages and winning a tin pot trophy every once in a while? Really?? That shouldn't be the height of Goon ambitions. Great for the owners though of course.

Most of the teams that have done better than us have done it with resources we cant compete with, the teams that are on a similar level of resources to us , like Liverpool and Spurs, have had nowhere near the success we have had, despite continously changing managers, I dont want to end up thinking that we have stumbled on one solution after another whilst winning nothing every season and at the same time dropping away from the champions league. Now you can point that we have had stability that others havent enjoyed, but its wenger that has brought us this stability. And on his Cv remains 3 league titles and 6 fa cups, which many try to dismiss when comparing him to managers of far less successes, but football is about trophies, not just endless positivity and  progression with nothing to show for it.
On Klopp, hes a magnificent manager ,back when he was out of work he was my choice to be new arsenal manager once Wenger retires. But a top manager alone isnt enough to get back to the top of the game, as we know very well, because we have a top manager of our own.

[Cliff Bastin]

Have you already deemed that Klopp is some kind of failure? At least give him a couple of years to make his mark ffs, judge him at the end of next season. Maybe by then you'll be right and we'll all see Wenger was the better manager, but it's too early to say that now.

I don't think it's outlandish for people to suggest Wenger should be replaced. Gooners like you justifying keeping Wenger by pointing out struggling new managers elsewhere always seem to completely ignore all the succesful new managers different clubs have brought in since Arsenal last acted their size.

Personally I'd be wanting more as an Arsenal fan than what Wenger has delivered. I'd want a challenge for the title and CL most seasons. I don't get why so many Arsenal fans are so content with never doing either of these (last title challenge 2008, last half decent European challenge 2009). To me that's not good enough for Arsenal. Wenger shows year after year that he's not capable of it so what other option do you have but to take a risk and change? Would you really be that heartbroken if a new manager doesn't achieve playing in the CL group stages and winning a tin pot trophy every once in a while? Really?? That shouldn't be the height of Goon ambitions. Great for the owners though of course.

You haven't been reading the last few pages on this thread then. I think Wenger should leave at the end of the season. I haven't judged Klopp. But I think Liverpool won't win anything until they bring in a higher caliber of player. Klopp has done as much as he can with the Liverpool team as it is.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Most of the teams that have done better than us have done it with resources we cant compete with, the teams that are on a similar level of resources to us , like Liverpool and Spurs, have had nowhere near the success we have had, despite continously changing managers, I dont want to end up thinking that we have stumbled on one solution after another whilst winning nothing every season and at the same time dropping away from the champions league. Now you can point that we have had stability that others havent enjoyed, but its wenger that has brought us this stability. And on his Cv remains 3 league titles and 6 fa cups, which many try to dismiss when comparing him to managers of far less successes, but football is about trophies, not just endless positivity and  progression with nothing to show for it.
On Klopp, hes a magnificent manager ,back when he was out of work he was my choice to be new arsenal manager once Wenger retires. But a top manager alone isnt enough to get back to the top of the game, as we know very well, because we have a top manager of our own.

So are you content with not challenging for the league or CL for 8/9 years? First few years, fair enough - the stadium costs got in the way. But it's been a few years now since you've been spending mega wages on high profile players (MUCH bigger wages than us and Spurs do).

If you do want to challenge, what makes you think next season, or the season after will be any different to the last few years? (Fair enough if you can see clear progress and recurring problems being addressed. I can't but I don't watch Arsenal as much as you so I'll take your word for it if you do).


BTW, I don't think you can count his three league titles from 13+ years ago as proof that he can still win them. Football's moved on way too much since those days. The increase in distance covered and # of sprints makes top level management practically a different discipline than those days. Tactics also have also moved on and his previous USP (superior diet, lifestyle and fitness) are now being done by everyone. That's how football is. Kenny wasn't as good in the late 90s as he was in the late 80s, Clough wasn't as good in the early 90s as early 80s, Graham wasn't as good at the turn of the 00s as he was at the turn of the 90s. And as far as I know Wenger doesn't keep hiring innovative head coaches like Ferguson did to keep him up to date?


Congrats on the Saints result

[Binomial]

Strong strong side.

Never understood the Wenger out brigade.

He sets his team out right, signs quality players without spending hundreds of millions.

[thelinnen]

Most of the teams that have done better than us have done it with resources we cant compete with, the teams that are on a similar level of resources to us , like Liverpool and Spurs, have had nowhere near the success we have had, despite continously changing managers, I dont want to end up thinking that we have stumbled on one solution after another whilst winning nothing every season and at the same time dropping away from the champions league. Now you can point that we have had stability that others havent enjoyed, but its wenger that has brought us this stability. And on his Cv remains 3 league titles and 6 fa cups, which many try to dismiss when comparing him to managers of far less successes, but football is about trophies, not just endless positivity and  progression with nothing to show for it.
On Klopp, hes a magnificent manager ,back when he was out of work he was my choice to be new arsenal manager once Wenger retires. But a top manager alone isnt enough to get back to the top of the game, as we know very well, because we have a top manager of our own.

A top manager that you wanted to leave a couple of weeks ago.

Why not give it a try? We haven't won the league for 12 years, Wenger doesn't know how to win the league now. I'd rather fail miserably while having a go than settle for top 4 mediocrity. I am not arsed about finishing in the Champions League places every season. If anything I would prefer if we weren't in the competition for a few years.

The Europa league would be a new experience, something different. The main issue is boredom among our fanbase right now, lets try something different.

[The North Bank]

So are you content with not challenging for the league or CL for 8/9 years? First few years, fair enough - the stadium costs got in the way. But it's been a few years now since you've been spending mega wages on high profile players (MUCH bigger wages than us and Spurs do).

If you do want to challenge, what makes you think next season, or the season after will be any different to the last few years? (Fair enough if you can see clear progress and recurring problems being addressed. I can't but I don't watch Arsenal as much as you so I'll take your word for it if you do).


BTW, I don't think you can count his three league titles from 13+ years ago as proof that he can still win them. Football's moved on way too much since those days. The increase in distance covered and # of sprints makes top level management practically a different discipline than those days. Tactics also have also moved on and his previous USP (superior diet, lifestyle and fitness) are now being done by everyone. That's how football is. Kenny wasn't as good in the late 90s as he was in the late 80s, Clough wasn't as good in the early 90s as early 80s, Graham wasn't as good at the turn of the 00s as he was at the turn of the 90s. And as far as I know Wenger doesn't keep hiring innovative head coaches like Ferguson did to keep him up to date?


Congrats on the Saints result

The reason we are not winning titles isnt wenger. hes the reason we are still in the top 4. My prediction is that if he goes, 5th and 6th will be common finishing positions. There will be a drop off if and when Wenger goes, I dont think we can take that risk. It would be different if we were breaking the world transfer record, or paying 400k a week for squad players. The expectations that we should win the league is more entitlement than realism. Obviously everyone wants to win everything, but I dont think we should sack our manager if we arent better than bayern or real in any given season. Had we been finishing outside the top 4, playing bad football, winning nothing, and spending big. Then id be the first one wanting him out.

[The North Bank]

A top manager that you wanted to leave a couple of weeks ago.

Did I want him to leave.... I dont remember that. I do think that if he left now it wouldnt be a disaster because we are a strong club now, largely down to him, but if he wants to stay, Im happy with that.
Maybe how other top managers are doing in england is making me realise that we need him to stay more than we think.

[The North Bank]

I also enjoy the football we play, and this season has a long way to go, so id rather enjoy it rather than constantly questioning the manager who is second in the league, in the last 16 in cl and through to another round of the cup. The way wengers position gets questioned you would think we are in midtable and have nothing to play for.

[thelinnen]

Did I want him to leave.... I dont remember that. I do think that if he left now it wouldnt be a disaster because we are a strong club now, largely down to him, but if he wants to stay, Im happy with that.
Maybe how other top managers are doing in england is making me realise that we need him to stay more than we think.

"Why not give it a try?" hardly sounds like a vote of confidence.

I understand it though, I know quite a few Arsenal fans and one word to describe them is bipolar. One week Wenger is expendable and the next he's a great manager.

He's the greatest manager in your club's history and as such he should be the judge of when it's time to step down. He's hardly Brian Clough drinking himself to the grave whilst relegating his team, he's kept them competitive despite some bad luck and stubbornness on his part. If Chelsea didn't go on that unbelievable run I'd back Arsenal for the league and they will challenge for it again next season as long as Wenger stays.

[The North Bank]

"Why not give it a try?" hardly sounds like a vote of confidence.

I understand it though, I know quite a few Arsenal fans and one word to describe them is bipolar. One week Wenger is expendable and the next he's a great manager.

He's the greatest manager in your club's history and as such he should be the judge of when it's time to step down. He's hardly Brian Clough drinking himself to the grave whilst relegating his team, he's kept them competitive despite some bad luck and stubbornness on his part. If Chelsea didn't go on that unbelievable run I'd back Arsenal for the league and they will challenge for it again next season as long as Wenger stays.

when you beat chelsea in midweek, then we beat them next week, its all back on!!

[thelinnen]

when you beat chelsea in midweek, then we beat them next week, its all back on!!

For you lot maybe, we're done. The way we're defending I don't see us beating them lot either, they beat Man City by parking the bus and hitting them on the counter, if we set up like we have since this bad run started we'll play right into their hands.

[jillcwhomever]

For you lot maybe, we're done. The way we're defending I don't see us beating them lot either, they beat Man City by parking the bus and hitting them on the counter, if we set up like we have since this bad run started we'll play right into their hands.

No its not. We can still finish high up the table, which for Klopp's first full season will be pretty good, considering we're in the early stages on his time with us. Also if Chelsea suffer two losses in two weeks, and realise both us and Arsenal are close by, who knows what can happen? 

[Cliff Bastin]

"Why not give it a try?" hardly sounds like a vote of confidence.

I understand it though, I know quite a few Arsenal fans and one word to describe them is bipolar. One week Wenger is expendable and the next he's a great manager.

He's the greatest manager in your club's history and as such he should be the judge of when it's time to step down. He's hardly Brian Clough drinking himself to the grave whilst relegating his team, he's kept them competitive despite some bad luck and stubbornness on his part. If Chelsea didn't go on that unbelievable run I'd back Arsenal for the league and they will challenge for it again next season as long as Wenger stays.

That was me and I stick by it. If we want to win the league, we need a change.

[thelinnen]

No its not. We can still finish high up the table, which for Klopp's first full season will be pretty good, considering we're in the early stages on his time with us. Also if Chelsea suffer two losses in two weeks, and realise both us and Arsenal are close by, who knows what can happen?

We can but we can forget about winning it, the squad depth isn't there in the slightest.

That was me and I stick by it. If we want to win the league, we need a change.

I disagree but there you go, he wants to go out on a high like whisky nose did, if he stays lets see what Arsenal do in the summer. He knows the patience of the fans is wearing thin so I expect him to invest in a couple of quality players and go for it.

Although there's a chance you might lose Sanchez which would be devasting based on his stats this season.