Author Topic: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.  (Read 15493 times)

Offline TravisBickle

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #120 on: March 30, 2017, 10:17:26 am »
He's just the one that got caught. War is littered with executions.

 Yep, and he's still a horrible, murdering subhuman piece of scum. Anyone who supports him is little better.
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Offline Buck Pete

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #121 on: March 30, 2017, 10:27:24 am »
Yep, and he's still a horrible, murdering subhuman piece of scum. Anyone who supports him is little better.

:lmao

This coming from someone with a username of Travis Bickle!!

Who incidentally was a an Ex-Marine with mental issues who decided to rid the world of people who was bringing him down

Oh the irony.

Offline TravisBickle

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #122 on: March 30, 2017, 10:34:05 am »
:lmao

This coming from someone with a username of Travis Bickle!!

Who incidentally was a an Ex-Marine with mental issues who decided to rid the world of people who was bringing him down

Oh the irony.

 Travis Bickle is a fictional character from the 1976 Martin Scorsese film "Taxi Driver." Alexander Blackman is a real person who broke the Geneva Convention and has a following of knuckle dragging, UKIP-voting, jingoistic morons.

 Glad to clear the confusion up.
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Offline Buck Pete

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #123 on: March 30, 2017, 12:33:09 pm »
Alexander Blackman is a real person who broke the Geneva Convention and has a following of knuckle dragging, UKIP-voting, jingoistic morons.


You talkin' to me?

Ah come on, your totally wrong there. Not to mention coming across as slightly arrogant and snotty.  How can you call out a persons political stance simply over their views on this?  In fact, to brand someone as not being on your intellectual wave length because they don't share your own views is beyond arrogant.

From what I saw outside the court rooms, Blackman appears to have the following of people who have been there and done it, they've been in his situation and understand (or at least try to understand) the pressure cooker situation he was placed in.  OK, not many would have broken the Geneva convention during their time in the forces but he most definitely wasn't the first and won't be the last.

You just see a bloke sticking a bullet into an insurgent as target practice, a bit of fun.  Whether you support or disagree with the concept of war, you surely must see what these guys out in Afghanistan, Iraq, wherever are facing day in and day out?

Yeah, I appreciate people don't agree with the decision of reducing his sentence and I totally respect it.  Just no need to be such a dick about it and start tarring people with the UKIP brush because they don't share your agenda. I personally wouldn't give Frottage and his ilk the time of day and hope the c*nt disappears as quickly as Marine A's prison blues.


Offline zebenzui

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #124 on: March 30, 2017, 01:09:43 pm »
You talkin' to me?

Ah come on, your totally wrong there. Not to mention coming across as slightly arrogant and snotty.  How can you call out a persons political stance simply over their views on this?  In fact, to brand someone as not being on your intellectual wave length because they don't share your own views is beyond arrogant.

I suspect he was talking about the public campaign spearheaded by the likes of the Mail, Sun and Telegraph.

From what I saw outside the court rooms, Blackman appears to have the following of people who have been there and done it, they've been in his situation and understand (or at least try to understand) the pressure cooker situation he was placed in.  OK, not many would have broken the Geneva convention during their time in the forces but he most definitely wasn't the first and won't be the last.

You just see a bloke sticking a bullet into an insurgent as target practice, a bit of fun.  Whether you support or disagree with the concept of war, you surely must see what these guys out in Afghanistan, Iraq, wherever are facing day in and day out?

The rules are the rules. They're there to prevent soldiers from bowing to their worst impulses. To me, stopping people like Blackman from doing whatever they want in their self-assumed capacity as arbiters of life and death are exactly what the rules are for.

As for Blackman's supporters who have "been there and done it", I'm surprised they of all people don't know or care about the full implications of Blackman's actions. Who in his malice endangered the lives of other servicemen, and tarnished the reputation of his organisation.

Offline Buck Pete

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #125 on: March 30, 2017, 01:39:18 pm »
Zeb. I agree with all of your points wholeheartedly and agree the Marine in question should have been punished. And he was.

Its the pitchfork wielding lefties who are baying for blood is my gripe.  Some of the reactions to this court ruling are usually reserved for serial killers, child murderers and terrorists.

I don't read any of the papers you mentioned above. And it goes without saying I have zero to do with The S*N in any capacity whatsoever.  I'm glad you mentioned it though as Taxi Driver appears to be one step away from accusing people who try to understand Sgt Blackmans plight as dirty S*n readers.  That just isn't true.

I've been a labour voter all my life and live in a labour stronghold in the North-West. Ok, I admit it I'm a wool.  Certain media outlets may have spearheaded this campaign but it has no bearing on my views or opinion. Like wise many others.

Personally, I think even with this court ruling, many other armed forces personnel will definitely think twice in the future before breaking the Geneva Convention.


Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #126 on: March 30, 2017, 02:15:06 pm »
You talkin' to me?

Ah come on, your totally wrong there. Not to mention coming across as slightly arrogant and snotty.  How can you call out a persons political stance simply over their views on this?  In fact, to brand someone as not being on your intellectual wave length because they don't share your own views is beyond arrogant.

From what I saw outside the court rooms, Blackman appears to have the following of people who have been there and done it, they've been in his situation and understand (or at least try to understand) the pressure cooker situation he was placed in.  OK, not many would have broken the Geneva convention during their time in the forces but he most definitely wasn't the first and won't be the last.

You just see a bloke sticking a bullet into an insurgent as target practice, a bit of fun.  Whether you support or disagree with the concept of war, you surely must see what these guys out in Afghanistan, Iraq, wherever are facing day in and day out?

Yeah, I appreciate people don't agree with the decision of reducing his sentence and I totally respect it.  Just no need to be such a dick about it and start tarring people with the UKIP brush because they don't share your agenda. I personally wouldn't give Frottage and his ilk the time of day and hope the c*nt disappears as quickly as Marine A's prison blues.

I would say don't sign up if you cant adhere to the rules.  Its the same argument some tried to make when police officers in the states are killing black men for some absurd little reason. If one cant control themselves they shouldn't be doing the job.

If the roles were reversed and there was footage of a Taliban fighter doing the same thing do you think anyone would be making an argument for what that fighter has to face day in day out?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 02:17:47 pm by puroresu_kid »

Offline classycarra

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #127 on: March 30, 2017, 02:27:33 pm »

If the roles were reversed and there was footage of a Taliban fighter doing the same thing do you think anyone would be making an argument for what that fighter has to face day in day out?

This is a weird tangent. If there was footage of this, do you think the Taliban fighter would have been prosecuted?

And to answer your question, yes of course. In the wide spectrum that is UK/Western society, there are always those who rationalise in favour of those who the West are at war with.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #128 on: March 30, 2017, 04:18:25 pm »
You just see a bloke sticking a bullet into an insurgent as target practice, a bit of fun.
Ahh, the taking of a life in cold blood.

"A bit of fun".
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Offline zebenzui

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #129 on: March 30, 2017, 05:06:24 pm »
I agree with all of your points wholeheartedly and agree the Marine in question should have been punished. And he was.

Its the pitchfork wielding lefties who are baying for blood is my gripe.  Some of the reactions to this court ruling are usually reserved for serial killers, child murderers and terrorists.

What Blackman did (in my view, pre-meditated murder followed by witness coaching) was not far off those things. Also, if anything, Blackman was in a position of particular extra responsibility, being as he was in a position of command (what example did he set to his subordinates?). He would also have been trained to adhere the laws of armed conflict. He was as well equipped to make the right decision in the circumstance he found himself in as anyone we can reasonably send to a warzone. And more equipped than a gang member murdering a rival - and I highly doubt any degree of mental illness could reduce the sentence for a gangland murder in cold blood to 3 years.

I honestly don't see why what Blackman did was any better than the butchering of Lee Rigby. Indeed, unlike Rigby's murderers and their victim, Blackman was (as he would have been trained to know) responsible for the safety and wellbeing (as much as it would be in his power to affect) of the man he extrajudicially executed.

I don't read any of the papers you mentioned above. And it goes without saying I have zero to do with The S*N in any capacity whatsoever.  I'm glad you mentioned it though as Taxi Driver appears to be one step away from accusing people who try to understand Sgt Blackmans plight as dirty S*n readers.  That just isn't true.

I've been a labour voter all my life and live in a labour stronghold in the North-West. Ok, I admit it I'm a wool.  Certain media outlets may have spearheaded this campaign but it has no bearing on my views or opinion. Like wise many others.


Personally, I think even with this court ruling, many other armed forces personnel will definitely think twice in the future before breaking the Geneva Convention.


I think the bolded parts go without saying. I don't think Travis was referring to you when he described Blackman's 'following'.

I have to disagree with you with the last bit though. I feel we've set a very poor example, in the way that the press can be seen as 'leaning' on the judicial system, in the way that a heinous crime was hailed widely as an act of heroism.

What I learned from this was that even if you break the rules set upon you as a serviceman in the armed forces of the UK, by dint of being in the armed forces, you are automatically a hero in the eyes of a significant portion of the population regardless of what manner of atrocities you commit.

Offline TravisBickle

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #130 on: March 31, 2017, 06:57:38 pm »
You talkin' to me?

Ah come on, your totally wrong there. Not to mention coming across as slightly arrogant and snotty.  How can you call out a persons political stance simply over their views on this?  In fact, to brand someone as not being on your intellectual wave length because they don't share your own views is beyond arrogant.

From what I saw outside the court rooms, Blackman appears to have the following of people who have been there and done it, they've been in his situation and understand (or at least try to understand) the pressure cooker situation he was placed in.  OK, not many would have broken the Geneva convention during their time in the forces but he most definitely wasn't the first and won't be the last.

You just see a bloke sticking a bullet into an insurgent as target practice, a bit of fun.  Whether you support or disagree with the concept of war, you surely must see what these guys out in Afghanistan, Iraq, wherever are facing day in and day out?

Yeah, I appreciate people don't agree with the decision of reducing his sentence and I totally respect it.  Just no need to be such a dick about it and start tarring people with the UKIP brush because they don't share your agenda. I personally wouldn't give Frottage and his ilk the time of day and hope the c*nt disappears as quickly as Marine A's prison blues.

 The following of people who have "been there and done it?" Are you joking, here? He has the following of professional right wing hacks and serial knuckle draggers who cream their pants over anything with a Union Jack on it.

 British forces have an obligation to uphold certain values when they're sent to foreign lands in the name of protecting said values. The vast majority (if not all) manage to do this despite the trauma, horror and heartache they endure. Blackman did not.

 He broke the Geneva Convention, he laughed about it - that makes his a murderer and he belongs in jail. Fuck him. He's a murdering scumbag in a camo suit.
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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #131 on: March 31, 2017, 07:20:22 pm »
I would say don't sign up if you cant adhere to the rules.  Its the same argument some tried to make when police officers in the states are killing black men for some absurd little reason. If one cant control themselves they shouldn't be doing the job.

If the roles were reversed and there was footage of a Taliban fighter doing the same thing do you think anyone would be making an argument for what that fighter has to face day in day out?


Hmmmm. I know you are not comparing Black Americans with murdering terrorists, but for your analogy to work you you have to compare apples with apples not oranges.  Black Americans are not terrorists. American police are there to protect and serve Black Americans not kill them.

As for reversing the roles, if there was footage of the taliban murdering a British soldier, yes there would be condemnation, but he woudnt end up in court as the Taliban have not signed the Geneva convention.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 07:25:46 pm by Kenny's Jacket »
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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #132 on: March 31, 2017, 07:25:16 pm »
The following of people who have "been there and done it?" Are you joking, here? He has the following of professional right wing hacks and serial knuckle draggers who cream their pants over anything with a Union Jack on it.

 British forces have an obligation to uphold certain values when they're sent to foreign lands in the name of protecting said values. The vast majority (if not all) manage to do this despite the trauma, horror and heartache they endure. Blackman did not.

 He broke the Geneva Convention, he laughed about it - that makes his a murderer and he belongs in jail. Fuck him. He's a murdering scumbag in a camo suit.

How anyone can have such strong opinions on this is  strange in my opinion.  A British  soldier murdered a terrorist that the British government sent him to fight. Yes he broke the geneva convention, and did so knowingly and willingly, but hes still a soldier killing the "opposition"

As for his supporters, outside the court were plenty of ex british forces. I guess you must have tracked them all down and found out they vote UKIP and read the Daily Mail. 
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline zebenzui

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #133 on: March 31, 2017, 07:26:40 pm »

Hmmmm. I know you are not comparing Black Americans with murdering terrorists, but for your analogy to work you you have to compare apples with apples not oranges.  Black Americans are not terrorists. American police are there to protect and serve Black Americans.

A soldier is responsible for an enemy he has taken prisoner. Who the victim is is irrelevant anyway, the rules apply universally.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #134 on: March 31, 2017, 07:34:33 pm »
A soldier is responsible for an enemy he has taken prisoner. Who the victim is is irrelevant anyway, the rules apply universally.

Yes under the Geneva convention the victim is irrelevant, but its understandable that people are not too fussed when the murder victim is a terrorist, and a terrorist who you cant even argue are freedom fighters. They are just vile murderers.  I agree that doesn't mean he hasn't broken the geneva convention, knowingly and willingly, it's just that it will understandably stop people giving to much of a fuck.

As for the rules being universal. Perhaps that is technically true.  If the shoe was on the other foot, the taliban guy would not end up in court. Taliban members haven't signed the geneva convention strangely enough.
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Offline zebenzui

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #135 on: March 31, 2017, 07:47:22 pm »
Yes under the Geneva convention the victim is irrelevant, but its understandable that people are not too fussed when the murder victim is a terrorist, and a terrorist who you cant even argue are freedom fighters. They are just vile murderers.  I agree that doesn't mean he hasn't broken the geneva convention, knowingly and willingly, it's just that it will understandably stop people giving to much of a fuck.

He endangered the lives of other servicemen. He tarnished both the repuation of Britain and her armed forces. He set a terrible example to men serving under him. He gave our enemies an propaganda open goal. Going beyond any consideration of compassion towards the victim (not improbable that he himself was a conscript with little choice in where he found himself), Blackman's actions harmed Britain. And yet there was large public campaign in support of him. British morality boggles my mind sometimes.

As for the rules being universal. Perhaps that is technically true.  If the shoe was on the other foot, the taliban guy would not end up in court. Taliban members haven't signed the geneva convention strangely enough.

I heard this a few times down south here in England, "it's what they do to us". As if the Taliban are paragon examples we should seek to emulate. But I digress, because the victim doesn't matter, a man broke the laws of his country, the laws of armed conflict, and the rules set upon him by the branch in which he served. He, in a pre-meditated fashion, dragged a (by that point) non-combatant away from aerial surveillance, stopped someone else from administering medical treatment to him, and then executed his prisoner in cold blood.

The man's a murderer, and in his murder harmed his country more than any 'regular' domestic murder. And he's being lauded as a hero.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #136 on: March 31, 2017, 07:56:16 pm »
He endangered the lives of other servicemen. He tarnished both the repuation of Britain and her armed forces. He set a terrible example to men serving under him. He gave our enemies an propaganda open goal. Going beyond any consideration of compassion towards the victim (not improbable that he himself was a conscript with little choice in where he found himself), Blackman's actions harmed Britain. And yet there was large public campaign in support of him. British morality boggles my mind sometimes.

I heard this a few times down south here in England, "it's what they do to us". As if the Taliban are paragon examples we should seek to emulate. But I digress, because the victim doesn't matter, a man broke the laws of his country, the laws of armed conflict, and the rules set upon him by the branch in which he served. He, in a pre-meditated fashion, dragged a (by that point) non-combatant away from aerial surveillance, stopped someone else from administering medical treatment to him, and then executed his prisoner in cold blood.

The man's a murderer, and in his murder harmed his country more than any 'regular' domestic murder. And he's being lauded as a hero.

I agree, the man is being praised, but he is simply put a murderer.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #137 on: March 31, 2017, 08:06:16 pm »
He endangered the lives of other servicemen. He tarnished both the repuation of Britain and her armed forces. He set a terrible example to men serving under him. He gave our enemies an propaganda open goal. Going beyond any consideration of compassion towards the victim (not improbable that he himself was a conscript with little choice in where he found himself), Blackman's actions harmed Britain. And yet there was large public campaign in support of him. British morality boggles my mind sometimes.

I heard this a few times down south here in England, "it's what they do to us". As if the Taliban are paragon examples we should seek to emulate. But I digress, because the victim doesn't matter, a man broke the laws of his country, the laws of armed conflict, and the rules set upon him by the branch in which he served. He, in a pre-meditated fashion, dragged a (by that point) non-combatant away from aerial surveillance, stopped someone else from administering medical treatment to him, and then executed his prisoner in cold blood.

The man's a murderer, and in his murder harmed his country more than any 'regular' domestic murder. And he's being lauded as a hero.

The victim might not be a conscript, just like the veterans who supported Blackman may not be UKIP voting, Dail Mail reading scumbags.

I have no intention of defending Blackman, Im just making the point that its very easy to not be arsed about a soldier killing a Taliban member.

Not sure he is being lauded as a hero is he? Thats just not true.

With whom is Britain's reputation now tarnished?  After embarking on an illegal war in Iraq and the death of Dr David Kelly I don't thing the death of a Taliban member will leave much of a mark.
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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #138 on: March 31, 2017, 08:39:30 pm »
What are people's thoughts on Lt. Murdoch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC_IaY3BmY

Disgrace to the badge or hero?

Offline zebenzui

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #139 on: March 31, 2017, 09:19:30 pm »
The victim might not be a conscript, just like the veterans who supported Blackman may not be UKIP voting, Dail Mail reading scumbags.

The veterans who supported Blackman did so out of a misguided sense of loyalty to a colleague, without regard for how the safety and repute of their non-murdering colleagues were damaged by Blackman.

I have no intention of defending Blackman, Im just making the point that its very easy to not be arsed about a soldier killing a Taliban member.

A soldier killed a prisoner. Even two hundred years ago it was considered bad form. It really doesn't matter who the prisoner was.

Not sure he is being lauded as a hero is he? Thats just not true.

He is within the circle of "professional right wing hacks and serial knuckle draggers who cream their pants over anything with a Union Jack on it". Also, anecdotally, by someone at my work.

With whom is Britain's reputation now tarnished?  After embarking on an illegal war in Iraq and the death of Dr David Kelly I don't thing the death of a Taliban member will leave much of a mark.

Britain, a land where right wing press outrage will get a murderer out of executing a prisoner of war. Doesn't sound like good press to me. Might also serve as a local recruitment tool for the Taliban.

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #140 on: April 1, 2017, 10:23:37 am »

I honestly don't see why what Blackman did was any better than the butchering of Lee Rigby. Indeed, unlike Rigby's murderers and their victim, Blackman was (as he would have been trained to know) responsible for the safety and wellbeing (as much as it would be in his power to affect) of the man he extrajudicially executed.


We really have gone through the looking glass here  :o

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #141 on: April 1, 2017, 11:12:07 am »
The veterans who supported Blackman did so out of a misguided sense of loyalty to a colleague, without regard for how the safety and repute of their non-murdering colleagues were damaged by Blackman.
[/b]
How did he put his colleagues in danger?  How do you known why ex serviceman are supporting him.  I have read a few comments from them. They, unlike me and Im guessing you, have experienced War and he has their sympathy.   Who knows why.


[/quote]  He is within the circle of "professional right wing hacks and serial knuckle draggers who cream their pants over anything with a Union Jack on it". Also, anecdotally, by someone at my work.[/quote]

I have just gone through some press releases. His wife is seen as something of a hero. Not really Blackman though from what I've read.


[/quote] Britain, a land where right wing press outrage will get a murderer out of executing a prisoner of war. Doesn't sound like good press to me. Might also serve as a local recruitment tool for the Taliban.
[/quote]


The right wing press have certainly given him their support. Not sure how much influence it had on the judge though.  You'd like to think we have a better legal system than that, however I can appreciate your  concern on this.

 Hope that last bit didn't sound condescending, it wasnt intended to. 


As for the Lee Rigby comment.  Just no.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #142 on: April 1, 2017, 11:14:07 am »
Sorry for the editing, I dont know how to do multiple quotes  :(
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline zebenzui

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #143 on: April 1, 2017, 08:23:43 pm »
How did he put his colleagues in danger?  How do you known why ex serviceman are supporting him.  I have read a few comments from them. They, unlike me and Im guessing you, have experienced War and he has their sympathy.   Who knows why.

He put his colleagues in danger of retaliatory treatment (and the Taliban aren't the nicest fo captors to begin with). And by giving the Taliban a potentially potent recruiting tool. He undermined the principles for which we're fighting in Afghanistan in the first place. Not sure what whether or not I've experienced war or not has to do with interpreting the laws of armed conflict. Sounds a little like you're evoking the "you don't know man, you weren't there" trope.

I understand that war is hell, but this is why.

I have just gone through some press releases. His wife is seen as something of a hero. Not really Blackman though from what I've read.

I appreciate the burden of proof is on me with this point. But I have no desire at all to trawl Mail, Express, and/or worse places to find such proof. So I'll concede this point.

The right wing press have certainly given him their support. Not sure how much influence it had on the judge though.  You'd like to think we have a better legal system than that, however I can appreciate your  concern on this.

Hope that last bit didn't sound condescending, it wasnt intended to. 

I really hope we have a better system than that too. But the story of the British soldiers who forced an Iraqi teen into a canal at gunpoint and watched him drown comes to mind when I consider the Blackman story and our ability to punish our soldiers when they do wrong.

As for the Lee Rigby comment.  Just no.

I stand by it.

Both killers had no legal right to take the life they took. Both influenced (supposedly) by mental illness. Both killed in a pre-meditated and cold blooded manner.

The only difference I care about (beyond their respective ideological beliefs) between Blackman and Rigby's killers is that Blackman's victim was actually killed by the person responsible for his safety and wellbeing at the time.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/49005/JSP381_aide_memoire_law_armed_conflict.pdf


All mobilised service personnel are given a copy of that, the rules Blackman broke are really that plainly laid out.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #144 on: April 2, 2017, 11:33:59 am »
I agree, the man is being praised, but he is simply put a murderer.
You called one a legend and a warrior the other day. Bit hypocritical, very actually.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #145 on: April 2, 2017, 01:13:20 pm »
How anyone can have such strong opinions on this is  strange in my opinion.  A British  soldier murdered a terrorist that the British government sent him to fight. Yes he broke the geneva convention, and did so knowingly and willingly, but hes still a soldier killing the "opposition"

As for his supporters, outside the court were plenty of ex british forces. I guess you must have tracked them all down and found out they vote UKIP and read the Daily Mail. 

Because the poster is a bad bell and I wouldn't want him behind me in the queue at Aldi let alone in a firefight with insurgents or in the pressure cooker of a field of conflict.

Sat in his ivory tower casting vile accusations and branding people as S*N readers and intellectual retards because they don't fit in with his namby-pamby political agenda.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #146 on: April 2, 2017, 01:40:14 pm »
You called one a legend and a warrior the other day. Bit hypocritical, very actually.
Eh?

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #147 on: April 2, 2017, 02:03:40 pm »
How anyone can have such strong opinions on this is  strange in my opinion.  A British  soldier murdered a terrorist that the British government sent him to fight. Yes he broke the geneva convention, and did so knowingly and willingly, but hes still a soldier killing the "opposition"

As for his supporters, outside the court were plenty of ex british forces. I guess you must have tracked them all down and found out they vote UKIP and read the Daily Mail. 


I would find it strange if someone did not feel strongly about adhering to the Geneva Convention. Breaking the Geneva Convention undermines the whole reason he was there in the first place. It destroys any legitimacy the Army has for being there.

Just like the police, a soldier on foreign soil should be held to a higher standard.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #148 on: April 2, 2017, 07:35:05 pm »
Would anyone be up in arms if id killed a man. You say you don't know the soldiers state of mind but them could apply to me killing someone. What if a copper did it someone in the cells?
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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #149 on: April 2, 2017, 07:38:37 pm »
Because the poster is a bad bell and I wouldn't want him behind me in the queue at Aldi let alone in a firefight with insurgents or in the pressure cooker of a field of conflict.

Sat in his ivory tower casting vile accusations and branding people as S*N readers and intellectual retards because they don't fit in with his namby-pamby political agenda.

Roles reversed, I doubt you'd be wanting a British soldier's killer to be freed due to mental incapacitation.
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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #150 on: April 7, 2017, 02:55:07 pm »
Reading this thread is insane.

Every kind of anti military judgmental nonsense.

Some favorites are equating Blackman to the killers of Lee Rigby and putting UK Forces in danger of retaliatory treatment by the Taliban.

Lee Rigby suffered a brutal surprise attack outside of a war zone by two cowards who planned the attack. The Taliban are not known for their humane treatment of prisoners of any nationality before or after the Blackman incident. And the Taliban treatment of prisoners of all nationalities is a lot worse than a quick bullet to the head.

Blackman somewhat made a compromise decision. Risk the lives of a helicopter crew to make a rescue, risk the lives of his own men to administer first aid and sit still in a still fluid fire fight or prematurely end the life of an enemy combatant who was already most likely critically injured.

Yes he broke rules, yes he has served time. But the insane bias on here is ridiculous.

And all those veterans that back him probably have a sense of understanding of the pressure he was under at that very instant and not out of any other sense of loyalty.

And yes I'm a UK forces veteran.





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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #151 on: April 7, 2017, 02:58:34 pm »
Would anyone be up in arms if id killed a man. You say you don't know the soldiers state of mind but them could apply to me killing someone. What if a copper did it someone in the cells?

If you killed someone who was until few minutes earlier was hell bent on killing you or hell bent on killing a copper in the cells then IMO there is some latitude to suggest that your mental state may not be an even keel.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #152 on: April 7, 2017, 03:34:24 pm »
Blackman somewhat made a compromise decision. Risk the lives of a helicopter crew to make a rescue, risk the lives of his own men to administer first aid and sit still in a still fluid fire fight or prematurely end the life of an enemy combatant who was already most likely critically injured.

Revisionist bullshit.

Fluid fire fight my arse. It was calm enough for them to take the time to drag their victim out of aerial surveillance cover, before proceeding to beat him. There was no risk to the soldiers at that time, at least not enough risk to stop them from standing around while contemplating the execution he was about to perform, as well as the one-liner to go with it. Fucker probably had a hard-on.

I hope you don't claim to embody the stance of the veterans who support him as you clearly have an erroneous view of what actually occurred, rendering your judgement profoundly askew.

I still absolutely stand by what I said about Rigby (and I'm sorry to his memory to have brought him up, but there's a lot of overlap between people who support Blackman, and those who namedrop Rigby with a degree of regularity as some form of rallying totem), the distinction exists that Blackman had a duty of care of sorts towards his victim. Not only is it wrong that Blackman did harm to his victim, he was the one supposed to protect him.

From this, also linked above https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/49005/JSP381_aide_memoire_law_armed_conflict.pdf

Quote
6. You must treat all persons who fall into your hands humanely and protect them from the dangers of war.

6. You must care for the wounded, including enemy wounded, on the basis of medical priority.

8. You must not attack enemy combatants who have surrendered or are no longer fighting as a result of their injuries/illness.

12. All wounded and sick must be treated humanely...The dead must not be plundered or mutilated.

14. In case of doubt, all captured personnel should be treated as PW until their status has been determined by higher authority.

15. On initial capture of PW the following rules must be followed:
  • All PWs are to be treated humanely.
  • PWs should be evacuated swiftly from the combat area.
  • Medical care is to be provided for the sick and wounded.
  • Pws must not be tortured

It's honestly hard to imagine how Blackman could have thought what he did was right. But then I probably don't have to because he seemed perfectly aware himself, else he would not have coached his witnesses.
« Last Edit: April 7, 2017, 03:44:33 pm by zebenzui »

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #153 on: April 7, 2017, 09:09:47 pm »

I still absolutely stand by what I said about Rigby (and I'm sorry to his memory to have brought him up, but there's a lot of overlap between people who support Blackman, and those who namedrop Rigby with a degree of regularity as some form of rallying totem), the distinction exists that Blackman had a duty of care of sorts towards his victim. Not only is it wrong that Blackman did harm to his victim, he was the one supposed to protect him.


I was going to stay out of this as I don't think our opinions on what Blackman did are all that far apart (we both agree that it was a war crime under international law, although there is probably some disagreement on whether it was murder or manslaughter under British law).

But the equivalence with the murder of Rigby is crazy and you don't seem to have any intention on stepping back from that so I can't help myself.

In particular the specifics of the 'duty of care' argument you make. As citizens we all owe an implicit general duty of care not to harm our fellow citizens. I guess if you left it at that you could argue for some form of equivalence in that in both cases a duty of care was not carried out and somebody died. But the law is quite clear that the sanction an individual faces depends not only on the outcome but on the extent to which the duty of care was breached and the circumstances in which that breach took place.

In terms of the extent of the breach I cannot see a great deal of equivalence. For me I see it in terms of the distance of departure from the expected duty of care. A civilian (which Rigby was when he was murdered) has absolutely no expectation of being killed by one of his fellow citizens in an unprovoked and premeditated attack, let alone in the manner that Rigby was killed. To be a victim of such an act is entirely unforseeable. Whilst I do not in any way condone or excuse Blackman's actions, if you are a soldier in a war-zone then whilst you would expect your enemy to adhere to the Geneva Convention the possibility of him departing from that is clearly possible, particularly if your own side has not been 'playing by the rules'.

In terms of the context of the breach there is even less equivalence. One took place on a civilian street, the other took place in a warzone. Rigby was a man who had done nothing wrong killed by two people who had had nothing wrong done to them. The Taliban fighter was somebody who had done a great deal of wrong (if not individually then by proxy by the force he was fighting for) killed by someone who at first hand had seen a great deal of wrong done to his colleagues.

So that's the more 'theoretical' argument out of the way. In more general and emotive terms I cannot see how you can see any equivalence to an entirely innocent man being run over and having his throat cut on a London street to an already grievously wounded soldier, whose side had made a practice of fighting a brutal asymmetric war, being shot by soldier who had been bearing the brunt of that warfare.

I think that Blackman did wrong and should be punished. For what it is worth whilst I think the verdict was correct under the law as it stands, for me British law should be changed to mirror International law where a soldier's mental state is irrelevant except in the most extreme circumstances, in which case Blackman would have been found guilty of murder. But the attempt to suggest there was some form of equivalence between his actions and those of the killers of Rigby is bonkers. At best it is misguided, at worst it provides succour to terrorists (although I accept that it is unlikely that they are making a habit of reading RAWK!).

When I read about what Blackman did I get a feeling of 'there but for the grace of God go I' - both for him and for his victim. War is hell and awful things can happen to, and be done by soldiers. I certainly don't get the same feeling when I think about the killing of Rigby.
« Last Edit: April 7, 2017, 09:21:57 pm by Sammy5IsAlive »

Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #154 on: April 10, 2017, 03:30:57 pm »
I was going to stay out of this as I don't think our opinions on what Blackman did are all that far apart (we both agree that it was a war crime under international law, although there is probably some disagreement on whether it was murder or manslaughter under British law).

But the equivalence with the murder of Rigby is crazy and you don't seem to have any intention on stepping back from that so I can't help myself.

In particular the specifics of the 'duty of care' argument you make. As citizens we all owe an implicit general duty of care not to harm our fellow citizens. I guess if you left it at that you could argue for some form of equivalence in that in both cases a duty of care was not carried out and somebody died. But the law is quite clear that the sanction an individual faces depends not only on the outcome but on the extent to which the duty of care was breached and the circumstances in which that breach took place.

In terms of the extent of the breach I cannot see a great deal of equivalence. For me I see it in terms of the distance of departure from the expected duty of care. A civilian (which Rigby was when he was murdered) has absolutely no expectation of being killed by one of his fellow citizens in an unprovoked and premeditated attack, let alone in the manner that Rigby was killed. To be a victim of such an act is entirely unforseeable. Whilst I do not in any way condone or excuse Blackman's actions, if you are a soldier in a war-zone then whilst you would expect your enemy to adhere to the Geneva Convention the possibility of him departing from that is clearly possible, particularly if your own side has not been 'playing by the rules'.

In terms of the context of the breach there is even less equivalence. One took place on a civilian street, the other took place in a warzone. Rigby was a man who had done nothing wrong killed by two people who had had nothing wrong done to them. The Taliban fighter was somebody who had done a great deal of wrong (if not individually then by proxy by the force he was fighting for) killed by someone who at first hand had seen a great deal of wrong done to his colleagues.

So that's the more 'theoretical' argument out of the way. In more general and emotive terms I cannot see how you can see any equivalence to an entirely innocent man being run over and having his throat cut on a London street to an already grievously wounded soldier, whose side had made a practice of fighting a brutal asymmetric war, being shot by soldier who had been bearing the brunt of that warfare.

I think that Blackman did wrong and should be punished. For what it is worth whilst I think the verdict was correct under the law as it stands, for me British law should be changed to mirror International law where a soldier's mental state is irrelevant except in the most extreme circumstances, in which case Blackman would have been found guilty of murder. But the attempt to suggest there was some form of equivalence between his actions and those of the killers of Rigby is bonkers. At best it is misguided, at worst it provides succour to terrorists (although I accept that it is unlikely that they are making a habit of reading RAWK!).

When I read about what Blackman did I get a feeling of 'there but for the grace of God go I' - both for him and for his victim. War is hell and awful things can happen to, and be done by soldiers. I certainly don't get the same feeling when I think about the killing of Rigby.

Get the violins out.

Reading this one would think Blackman was out there on a mercy mission and not one of an invader to which any Afghan, Taliban or not had a right to resist against.

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #155 on: April 10, 2017, 03:40:45 pm »
Rules are rules, and prisoners of war must be respected so he should have been punished to the full. If you are going to invade a country under the pretence of democracy you have to adhere to the geneva convention.

But I won't be losing any sleep over a dead taliban c*nt.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 03:44:21 pm by Giovanni »
cyas

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #156 on: April 10, 2017, 04:13:47 pm »
Get the violins out.

Reading this one would think Blackman was out there on a mercy mission and not one of an invader to which any Afghan, Taliban or not had a right to resist against.

Are you reading the same post as me?

Seemed the post was more related to the sensationalist equivalence with Rigby's murder, and Sammy was very clear and measured. He also stated he views this as a war crime and that Blackman did wrong.

Your post on the other hand seems to suggest you want Blackman punished, but mostly out of spite because you didn't agree with the internationally approved conflict in Afghanistan.

Since rights on the battlefield matter to you, and you bring up the rights of the Afghans and or Taliban to resist, you ought to also recognise the rights of the internationally sanctioned armed forces fighting the Taliban -  calling them invaders suggests otherwise though, and that you prefer the Taliban to them. Am I getting that wrong?

Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #157 on: April 11, 2017, 07:00:56 pm »
Are you reading the same post as me?

Seemed the post was more related to the sensationalist equivalence with Rigby's murder, and Sammy was very clear and measured. He also stated he views this as a war crime and that Blackman did wrong.

Your post on the other hand seems to suggest you want Blackman punished, but mostly out of spite because you didn't agree with the internationally approved conflict in Afghanistan.

Since rights on the battlefield matter to you, and you bring up the rights of the Afghans and or Taliban to resist, you ought to also recognise the rights of the internationally sanctioned armed forces fighting the Taliban -  calling them invaders suggests otherwise though, and that you prefer the Taliban to them. Am I getting that wrong?

They are invaders in the eyes of those who they occupy just as near every occupying force has been seen since the dawn of time.

Whether one prefers the taliban is irrelevant. I see it that the the afghan people had every right to resist those who came to occupy them. That's human nature.

The idea that because an armed force is sanctioned by the international community and those that oppose such a force are somehow in the wrong for doing so is ridiculous.

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #158 on: April 11, 2017, 07:58:14 pm »
They are invaders in the eyes of those who they occupy just as near every occupying force has been seen since the dawn of time.

Whether one prefers the taliban is irrelevant. I see it that the the afghan people had every right to resist those who came to occupy them. That's human nature.

The idea that because an armed force is sanctioned by the international community and those that oppose such a force are somehow in the wrong for doing so is ridiculous.

Just for clarity, I described Blackman's victim as a 'soldier' and set out my argument on the basis that the Taliban was a legitimate armed force (albeit one whose aims I do not support).

My point was concerning the tactics the Taliban were using in Afghanistan. To be clear - even if those tactics contravened the 'rules of war' that would not give Blackman justification for breaching the Geneva Convention himself. But in more moral terms, and in particularly in comparison with the killing of Rigby, I don't think that it is controversial to state that if you are waging an asymmetric campaign (even if entirely legitimate militarily) geared not towards territorial or strategic objectives but towards inflicting enough emotional/morale pressure on your opponents to force them to withdraw then in the process of pushing your enemy towards that emotional breaking point you are putting yourself more at risk of these type of (illegal) reprisals.   

Offline puroresu_kid

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Re: Marine A, aka Sgt. Alexander Blackman.
« Reply #159 on: April 11, 2017, 08:05:20 pm »
Just for clarity, I described Blackman's victim as a 'soldier' and set out my argument on the basis that the Taliban was a legitimate armed force (albeit one whose aims I do not support).

My point was concerning the tactics the Taliban were using in Afghanistan. To be clear - even if those tactics contravened the 'rules of war' that would not give Blackman justification for breaching the Geneva Convention himself. But in more moral terms, and in particularly in comparison with the killing of Rigby, I don't think that it is controversial to state that if you are waging an asymmetric campaign (even if entirely legitimate militarily) geared not towards territorial or strategic objectives but towards inflicting enough emotional/morale pressure on your opponents to force them to withdraw then in the process of pushing your enemy towards that emotional breaking point you are putting yourself more at risk of these type of (illegal) reprisals.

Do you not believe he would of done what he did regardless?

If I'm right you are saying that the way the taliban fought such a war is what out Blackman into the mindset to do what he did?

i.e suicide bombs, IED's etc? I'm not sure I believe that simply because Blackman seemed well in control. It's not like this was a man who just snapped. Seemed pretty calculated to me.