Author Topic: Liverpool's defence - Giraffes, Walls and Automobiles  (Read 168265 times)

Offline Messiah

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 812
  • YNWA
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #40 on: November 8, 2016, 05:04:39 pm »
The goals conceded recently are down to individual lapses rather than structural issues, so the comparisons to 13/14 (when the team had very little defensive protection) are shallow.

For example, Watford's goal was down to Milner uncharacteristically losing his man on the left; and one of Palace's goals was down to Lovren's mis-kick.

Hardly something to get worried about.

I would argue Henderson was slightly more at fault for the Watford goal than Milner. Instead of staying with Janmaat he gets sucked into the play even though Lucas and Can had Amrabat covered well.

https://my.mixtape.moe/cxbrmx.mp4
Will the people in the cheaper seats clap your hands? And the rest of you, if you'll just rattle your jewelry.

Offline rickardinho1

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,138
  • The Earth is Flat
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #41 on: November 8, 2016, 05:11:13 pm »
I think we will sell Ilori and Sakho is obviously gone too, Klavan is 31 and Lucas is pushing 30. Its got to be either we hugely trust Gomez to develop into a starting quality centre back for a title challenging team or look to buy an additional centre back. I think Van Dijk fits the bill perfectly, good age (25), 6 ft 4 and great in the air, a good ball player with decent passing range, can bring the ball out, rarely injured and plays for Southampton (got to buy someone every year)!
Good points. Didn't realize that Klavan was that old.

Could see Klopp trying to tempt one of Jonathan Tah or Niklas Sule next summer... Not sure they'd join unless they were promised big minutes ahead of Lovren and Gomez though.

Offline Grobbelrevell

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,781
  • Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry & ignorance
    • The Grobbelramble
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #42 on: November 8, 2016, 05:29:30 pm »
Annoyingly nowhere has this info compiled, but I did see some figures before last weekend - Everton the best with 1 against, Palace the worst with 8.

Yeah, i've been trying to find data on it today to no avail.

So we're probably pretty average then, rather than the disaster it sometimes feels like and that gets portrayed.
Twitter | Blog

TRADE COUNT: +19  /  SoS Member 6854

Offline The G in Gerrard

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,048
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #43 on: November 8, 2016, 05:54:05 pm »
The thinking probably stems from us winning games comfortably and then failing to keep a clean sheet by always conceding a sloppy goal. The media and pundits seem to using the clean sheet thing as justification for thinking we'll come unstuck because of it, when in fact it's bollocks as we're blowing teams away.

It's a narrative that's stuck. We're quite obviously not perfect and there's plenty of room for improvement but yeah, since the Burnley game (we conceded 5 in our first two games and a goal on average thereafter), we've generally looked decent defensively, not conceding many chances. Plus we're scoring loads so it doesn't matter :)
Indeed. What makes it more odd is how we will do against the "better" sides argument completely ignoring fact that we've played more of those sides than the others league contenders.

We've made errors like Janmaat goal but it's not costing us and our goal difference is the second best currently iirc.

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

  • Not so pleasant non-upholstered footer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,680
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #44 on: November 8, 2016, 06:23:28 pm »
Think it's worth pointing out that our defending has been air tight when it has most needed to be.

Arsenal didn't have a sniff after they brought it back to 4-3 and neither did Chelsea, West Brom nor Leicester when they came within one goal of us.

Only Tottenham and Crystal Palace have managed to equalise against us but I'd argue that in both games we were still looking for more goals rather than consolidating.
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline Kashinoda

  • More broken biscuits than made of crisps
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,827
  • ....mmm
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #45 on: November 8, 2016, 07:55:12 pm »
Think it's worth pointing out that our defending has been air tight when it has most needed to be.

Arsenal didn't have a sniff after they brought it back to 4-3 and neither did Chelsea, West Brom nor Leicester when they came within one goal of us.

Only Tottenham and Crystal Palace have managed to equalise against us but I'd argue that in both games we were still looking for more goals rather than consolidating.

The performance against Chelsea at 2-1 was one of my favourite in years for this reason alone.

We were tight and disciplined - they didn't have a sniff.

If we do that for a 1-0 people say our defence looks good, but because it's 2-1 it isn't highlighted as much.
:D

Offline 007.lankyguy

  • Subject of a restraining order by a regular member of the HIGNFY crew. Hasn't got a clue when Liverpool play next. Fully stopped.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,655
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #46 on: November 8, 2016, 08:34:28 pm »
I think there`s a big drop-off going from Lovren to Lucas. I know Lucas is trying his best and his effort is admirable but last two games he covered for Lovren he cost us two goals, we know what he did vs Leicester while against Watford if you watched their goal again you`d see Lucas made a bad decision to leave his position and Janmaat went on to shoot unchallenged.
Lovren's made a lot of errors for goals this season so I don't think singling out Lucas is particularly fair.

Whether we have a defensive 'issue' is a matter of definition. If by defence, you mean the whole team as a unit, then we don't - we dominate possession (which is the best way of restricting chances), we press and recover very well and we don't concede many shots at all.

If by defence you mean the back line as individuals, then I'd say the criticisms are pretty fair. Our defenders are not very good when they're forced to make decisions under pressure and that's the main reason we're not keeping clean sheets.
« Last Edit: November 8, 2016, 09:02:44 pm by lankyguy007. »
"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second." Sir Bob

Offline na fir dearg

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,605
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #47 on: November 8, 2016, 08:47:17 pm »
I think pundits are just automatically comparing this team to 2013 where we were scoring loads but really leaking goals too - we are conceding the odd goal here and there but much much tighter than the 2013 team - and we are scoring plenty of goals as well

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #48 on: November 8, 2016, 08:48:28 pm »
A few points worth noting.

We are conceding the least shots on goal in the league.
We have conceded only 10 goals in the last 12 games all competitions and 9 goals in the last 9 PL games.
For all our set-piece woes, we have conceded only 4 goals by set-pieces in the league.

Bonus stat: We have scored the most goals by set-pieces in the Top 5 leagues - 8. Take that!

There are pundits and oppositions fans trying to dismiss us by pointing to our defense, however we can feel safe in the knowledge that our defense is doing fine.
« Last Edit: November 8, 2016, 08:59:54 pm by PoetryInMotion »

Offline Medellin

  • Self-confessed daft meff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,543
  • Sound
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #49 on: November 8, 2016, 10:01:29 pm »
Spot on with the OP,those stats speak volumes & there is always room for improvement.
As long as we are banging them in the other end i couldn't give two fks whether we keep a clean sheet or not.
Support the team,Trust & Believe.

Offline BassTunedToRed

  • This X-Axis goes up to 11.
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
    • Bass Tuned To Red
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #50 on: November 9, 2016, 09:12:21 am »
Yeah, i've been trying to find data on it today to no avail.

So we're probably pretty average then, rather than the disaster it sometimes feels like and that gets portrayed.

You can get the data from the WhoScored match previews (EDIT: Link removed) but you have to click through several screens on ten fixtures, so I tend to only look it up if I'm writing a blog post or something, it's far too much hassle to check every week.

But yeah, we're average. You can see from this table I made last season - we tend to concede 10-14 set piece goals a season, so with four after about a third of the season, we'll no doubt finish around there again.
 
https://basstunedtored.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/lfc-set-pieces-2009-20151.png
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 10:29:42 am by BassTunedToRed »

Offline hasan

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop.
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #51 on: November 9, 2016, 06:28:58 pm »
Defence doing well. But still think we should keep Sakho and go with 3 at the back in some games later in the year. Think he would be good in a back 3. As the season progresses think we may have to play a different system in some games. Thinking wishfully hope current system keeps giving us the points as it's a joy to watch.!
Ssshh - say it quietly we are going to win the league

Online Hazell

  • Ultimate Movie Night Draft Winner 2017. King - or Queen - of Mystery. Hyzenthlay. The 5th Benitle's sex conch.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,511
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #52 on: November 9, 2016, 06:31:48 pm »
Defence doing well. But still think we should keep Sakho and go with 3 at the back in some games later in the year. Think he would be good in a back 3. As the season progresses think we may have to play a different system in some games. Thinking wishfully hope current system keeps giving us the points as it's a joy to watch.!

I think Sakho is done here. A shame because IMO, he's a very good player but there's clearly an issue between him and Klopp and if it doesn't get resolved, there's only going to be one winner, and rightly so.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline Alf

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,583
  • Leader of Alf Quaida & the Scaliban
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #53 on: November 9, 2016, 06:35:20 pm »
Even the most glass half full supporters couldn't make a case for our defence.

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

  • Currently facing issues around potty training. All help appreciated.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,203
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #54 on: November 9, 2016, 06:37:48 pm »
Even the most glass half full supporters couldn't make a case for our defence.

The best form of defence is attack? :-X ;D
get thee to the library before the c*nts close it down

we are a bunch of twats commenting on a website.

Offline Giono

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,901
  • And stop calling me Shirley
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #55 on: November 9, 2016, 06:49:40 pm »
I would argue Henderson was slightly more at fault for the Watford goal than Milner. Instead of staying with Janmaat he gets sucked into the play even though Lucas and Can had Amrabat covered well.

https://my.mixtape.moe/cxbrmx.mp4

That did make me scratch my head. Not clear why he thought he needed to move there.
"I am a great believer in luck and the harder I work the more of it I have." Stephen Leacock

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #56 on: November 9, 2016, 08:38:33 pm »
Lovren's made a lot of errors for goals this season so I don't think singling out Lucas is particularly fair.

Whether we have a defensive 'issue' is a matter of definition. If by defence, you mean the whole team as a unit, then we don't - we dominate possession (which is the best way of restricting chances), we press and recover very well and we don't concede many shots at all.

If by defence you mean the back line as individuals, then I'd say the criticisms are pretty fair. Our defenders are not very good when they're forced to make decisions under pressure and that's the main reason we're not keeping clean sheets.

That's absolutely not true. Its recency effect and since he made an error against Palace, it stays in your mind. But I don't seem to recollect lot of errors at all. In fact, nothing beyond that one. Matip and Lovren have looked solid together in all.

Lucas also hasn't made many errors, but he gave away the Leicester goal and the penalty against Spurs despite playing much lesser minutes than Lovren.

Offline 007.lankyguy

  • Subject of a restraining order by a regular member of the HIGNFY crew. Hasn't got a clue when Liverpool play next. Fully stopped.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,655
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #57 on: November 9, 2016, 09:45:07 pm »
That's absolutely not true. Its recency effect and since he made an error against Palace, it stays in your mind. But I don't seem to recollect lot of errors at all. In fact, nothing beyond that one. Matip and Lovren have looked solid together in all.

Lucas also hasn't made many errors, but he gave away the Leicester goal and the penalty against Spurs despite playing much lesser minutes than Lovren.
It's not recency effect, he's been partly culpable for a number of goals this season.

Errors aren't just on the ball mistakes mate.
"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second." Sir Bob

Offline the_red_pill

  • Hasn't got a fucking clue when the Reds are playing next.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,597
  • Frankly my dear...
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #58 on: November 9, 2016, 09:53:11 pm »
We've had a pretty low shots conceded stat for most of the past 5/6 seasons though. I can remember us having the lowest shots conceded in 13/14 - even though we had so many goals scored against us. We've had the lowest for the first half of 14/15 as well, IIRC.

Our problem is that when we do concede, we unfortunately concede the goal also :(
Has been the case since Kenny.
« Last Edit: November 9, 2016, 09:56:24 pm by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline lessthanmatt

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,419
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #59 on: November 9, 2016, 11:40:38 pm »
Our defence is pretty grand.

  • Matip is one of the league's best central defenders based on his showing so far. It's bonkers that we got him for free.
  • He and Lovren are an excellent partnership.
  • Lucas and Klavan offer great depth/cover for those two.
  • Clyne (who is wanted by Madrid &/or Barca apparently) is as solid as they come.
  • Milner is a fantastic professional and looks like he's been playing LB his whole career

Tiresome shithouse pundits nonethelesss recycle and regurgitate this "Liverpool's bad defence, achilles' heel blah blah" trash based off the "one clean sheet" statistic that's bouncing around - they haven't actually watched us play.
"I want to get off Mr. Rodgers Wild Ride"

Online Barneylfc∗

  • Cross-dressing man-bag wielding golfer. Wannabe Mod. Coprophiliac. Would like to buy an airline seat if he could. Known 'grass'. Wants to go home to He-Man
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,615
Craig Burnley V West Ham - WEST HAM WIN - INCORRECT

Offline SingFongFC

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • L-I-V, E-R-P, Double O L, Liverpool FC
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2016, 12:57:07 am »
I think Sakho is done here. A shame because IMO, he's a very good player but there's clearly an issue between him and Klopp and if it doesn't get resolved, there's only going to be one winner, and rightly so.

Wish they'd kiss and make up - be a real shame to lose him I think. Was in great form pre-ban, loves the club and would be a great option for the challenges ahead.

Realise that's unlikely to happen though - and ironic that it looks like he'll probably never get to wear the no. 3 shirt he was awarded at the start of the season.  :(

Offline PoetryInMotion

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,803
  • YNWA
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2016, 07:45:42 am »
It's not recency effect, he's been partly culpable for a number of goals this season.

Errors aren't just on the ball mistakes mate.

What are these 'number of goals'?

Offline Hunts Cross

  • but Cech's furious.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,207
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2016, 08:04:04 am »
I would argue Henderson was slightly more at fault for the Watford goal than Milner. Instead of staying with Janmaat he gets sucked into the play even though Lucas and Can had Amrabat covered well.

https://my.mixtape.moe/cxbrmx.mp4

It is interesting how we see things. I thought Lucas should not have moved out to the left, as if to stop a run to the byline, because in doing so, he left a big hole for the scorer to come through. I guess it is a combination of the above.

Offline Hunts Cross

  • but Cech's furious.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,207
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2016, 08:08:50 am »
For our defence, the part zonal / part man marking strategy is a bit impenetrable. However, I would make this observation: when trying to block a shot, our defenders almost always look like the ball could be fatal if they were struck with it. They turn their face and body away from the shooter, like they are scared of the ball. Man up lads! It'll only sting for a minute.

Offline Frizzo

  • Having a Bad Hair Life.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,919
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2016, 08:20:00 am »


Lovren's made a lot of errors for goals this season so I don't think singling out Lucas is particularly fair.

Lots of errors for goals is harsh.

I wouldn't say we'd even conceded lots of goals.

Of those we have I can remember Clyne being at fault for a couple, and some Lucas, Matip, Henderson, and Moreno errors.

The only one I can remember being "Lovren's fault" was the Palace goal. Do you remember the others off the top of your head?

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

  • Keita's shit, Bundesliga's shit, Bundesliga 2's shit
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,502
  • RAWK Cheltenham 2020 Champion Tipster*
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2016, 09:47:29 am »
It's not recency effect, he's been partly culpable for a number of goals this season.

Errors aren't just on the ball mistakes mate.

Feel free to name them.

Offline cornelius

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,803
  • "Beware the beast man, for he is the Devil's pawn"
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2016, 09:55:39 am »
Best right back in the league, best left back in the league, best centre back in the league and I don't doubt that Karius and Lovren will step up to the plate as the season goes on. We've conceded 14 goals but Arsenal have conceded 11 and United 13 whilst we have had more away games and 3 of our toughest at that, factor in the fact that 3 of those goals were conceded away at Arsenal and I wonder why our defence is copping flak and neither of theirs is...actually I don't wonder.

On the whole we're defending much more soundly and I find myself pretty relaxed watching games, certainly a lot more so than in 2013/14. We're way better at the back now than we were back then. Yes the set piece issue is annoying but that seems to be one of the few ways teams have managed to score against us so we must be doing something right and I'm sure we'll conquer that eventually but you have to remember just how difficult keeping clean sheets in this league is.

We're really not that bad at all at the back. Fuck the naysayers, doubters and pundits.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:58:23 am by cornelius »

Online Funky_Gibbons

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,811
  • Follow the gourd
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2016, 10:04:45 am »
It's not recency effect, he's been partly culpable for a number of goals this season.

Errors aren't just on the ball mistakes mate.
Don't worry, Lovren will be at Sunderland soon and the more talented Ilori will soon take his place.
"And there are red and white scarves of Liverpool, and red and white bobble hats of Liverpool, and red and white rosettes of Liverpool, and nothing else. And the sun shines now."

Offline BassTunedToRed

  • This X-Axis goes up to 11.
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
    • Bass Tuned To Red
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2016, 10:27:45 am »
Don't link that fucking shite on here please http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=329092.msg14804028#msg14804028

Sorry, didn't mean to cause offence to anyone. Unfortunately they sometimes have info that you can't get anywhere else.

Offline 007.lankyguy

  • Subject of a restraining order by a regular member of the HIGNFY crew. Hasn't got a clue when Liverpool play next. Fully stopped.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,655
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2016, 11:56:57 am »

Lots of errors for goals is harsh.

I wouldn't say we'd even conceded lots of goals.

Of those we have I can remember Clyne being at fault for a couple, and some Lucas, Matip, Henderson, and Moreno errors.

The only one I can remember being "Lovren's fault" was the Palace goal. Do you remember the others off the top of your head?
Two against Arsenal, one against Burnley, one against Chelsea, one against Swansea, one against West Brom and probably both against Crystal Palace. Those are the goals he's partly culpable for (it's very rare that one player's fully culpable for a goal being conceded, so strictly speaking I wouldn't describe those goals as "Lovren's fault" - even the first against Palace).
"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second." Sir Bob

Offline Frizzo

  • Having a Bad Hair Life.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,919
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2016, 12:32:22 pm »
Two against Arsenal, one against Burnley, one against Chelsea, one against Swansea, one against West Brom and probably both against Crystal Palace. Those are the goals he's partly culpable for (it's very rare that one player's fully culpable for a goal being conceded, so strictly speaking I wouldn't describe those goals as "Lovren's fault" - even the first against Palace).
Jesus then you could wrote a list like that for every player in the league.

Offline 007.lankyguy

  • Subject of a restraining order by a regular member of the HIGNFY crew. Hasn't got a clue when Liverpool play next. Fully stopped.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,655
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2016, 12:37:31 pm »
Jesus then you could wrote a list like that for every player in the league.
That is not true at all. I haven't listed any trivial mistakes either.
"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second." Sir Bob

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,808
  • ...All the best
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2016, 12:37:45 pm »
For me there`s a difference between "could have potentially done more for the goal" and being partly or totally at fault for the goal.

In my book Lovren was at fault only for that Palace goal and that`s pretty much it this season.

If we maintain our goal conceding ratio since Matip came in , it`ll give us a great chance to win the league, that`s all that`s important to me.

Offline Chalky Boots

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,493
  • Neurotic Fan Fiction
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #74 on: November 10, 2016, 12:52:18 pm »
I would argue Henderson was slightly more at fault for the Watford goal than Milner. Instead of staying with Janmaat he gets sucked into the play even though Lucas and Can had Amrabat covered well.

https://my.mixtape.moe/cxbrmx.mp4

I think you're right. Henderson, for that split second was guilty of following the ball and not marking an area. If he does that then the goal doesn't happen. I think with something like that it's a case of development in a role, those nuances are the kind of thing Henderson can only pick up with time in that position.

Overall I'd say structurally we look solid this season the issue is individual lapses in concentration. Not necessarily even full defensive errors, just moments where we switch off for a split second and let them in with a chance. I think we need to be better from corners but - and you can correct me if I'm wrong - as I can tell Klopp didn't go for that set up last season and has only started going like we do (zonal with blockers outside of the 6 yard box) for this season; which is more in tune with his set up at Dortmund. Again something like that will need time to really work, we can go back to Rafa's first season for proof of that.

Offline Giono

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,901
  • And stop calling me Shirley
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2016, 12:58:37 pm »
Our defence is pretty grand.

  • Matip is one of the league's best central defenders based on his showing so far. It's bonkers that we got him for free.
  • He and Lovren are an excellent partnership.
  • Lucas and Klavan offer great depth/cover for those two.
  • Clyne (who is wanted by Madrid &/or Barca apparently) is as solid as they come.
  • Milner is a fantastic professional and looks like he's been playing LB his whole career
Tiresome shithouse pundits nonethelesss recycle and regurgitate this "Liverpool's bad defence, achilles' heel blah blah" trash based off the "one clean sheet" statistic that's bouncing around - they haven't actually watched us play.

This. As a group we are better than recent seasons. I'd add that Moreno is a dangerous attacking wingback and a work in progress under Klopp and he looked better in his last outing for us. Trent AA is a very promising player for us backing up Clyne. And then there is Joe Gomez who we have all seen will be some player when his fitness is back.

Onwards and upwards.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 01:00:29 pm by Giono »
"I am a great believer in luck and the harder I work the more of it I have." Stephen Leacock

Offline 007.lankyguy

  • Subject of a restraining order by a regular member of the HIGNFY crew. Hasn't got a clue when Liverpool play next. Fully stopped.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,655
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2016, 01:10:42 pm »
Overall I'd say structurally we look solid this season the issue is individual lapses in concentration. Not necessarily even full defensive errors, just moments where we switch off for a split second and let them in with a chance. I think we need to be better from corners but - and you can correct me if I'm wrong - as I can tell Klopp didn't go for that set up last season and has only started going like we do (zonal with blockers outside of the 6 yard box) for this season; which is more in tune with his set up at Dortmund. Again something like that will need time to really work, we can go back to Rafa's first season for proof of that.
We were doing that last season as well, albeit we were adjusting little things, like how many players were in the zonal line and whether the blockers man marked touch tight or whether they waited for the runs to be made.
"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second." Sir Bob

Offline xbugawugax

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,249
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2016, 01:50:29 pm »
anyone also noticed that we tend to catch teams offside more often. Pretty sure its the result of working the defence as a unit and the fact that all of our back 4 are pretty front foot defenders. The settled back 4 might play a part too.


Offline Fiasco

  • Just add water to foam at the mouth. Can't spell San Francisco. Has promised to eat his own cock. Cannibal Self-Harm in that case.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,206
  • JFT96.
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2016, 02:02:30 pm »
I don't think you can be 11 games into the season only having kept 1 clean sheet (against a team who didn't try and score) and claim that the defence is in any way 'rejuvenated'.

We're not atrocious at the back by any means and I think we're unlucky not to have 3 or 4 clean sheets to our name but I don't think the numbers lie. Individually Matip, Clyne and Milner have started the season really well but how many excuses can you make before you say yeah, the defence isn't great?

We're a fucking boss team and we're going to give the league a real good go this season but our chances won't be helped by conceding silly goals like we do. We've came up short in the league twice in the past 7 or 8 years and each time we lamented silly defeats against silly teams. Hull away under Rodgers, Toure's pass against West Brom under Rodgers, stupid defeat against Middlesbrough under Rafa, etc. Silly goals and silly defeats seem OK in isolation because they are considered an anomaly, yet in a long season with plenty of good teams one silly defeat might just be the one silly defeat that costs you a title.

We won't score 5 every game. On occasion our attack will misfire and/or the opposition goalie will transform into Lev Yashin like we've seen a million times before. Our defence isn't in any way rejuvenated, it continues to concede silly goals like it did under Rodgers and even further back than that. If we can sort it out then we'll boost our chances of winning the league significantly.

Offline SerbianScouser

  • Far from world class.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,808
  • ...All the best
Re: The rejuvenated defence thread
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2016, 02:09:41 pm »
We won't score 5 every game.
We don`t have to, last 9 games we conceded more than 1 goal only on 1 occasion. To compare, in 13/14 we conceded more than 1 goal 16 times out of 38 -- that`s almost half the times during the entire league season we had to score 3+ goals to win. This time it`s different and not nearly as bad.