Topic: Aly Cissokho

[ericthered10]

He looks dopey and dispassionate when he plays which, wrongly, mars my impression of him subconsciously. He actually had a solid game yesterday, proving he can look pretty decent against opposition that posed little problems. Would love to see him really kick on in the cup game to give him the confidence to nail down the lb spot for the time being. Take your chance Aly.

[ericthered10]

Few problems, that is.

[Homo rubrum]

Enrique is the player for that, he should be back over the next couple of weeks too. If we get into Europe next season we'll maybe need better but now that we're back to playing less often we hopefully won't have to rely on a back-up player as much. At the very least I'd say right-back has become a bigger priority with Johnson out of form and nobody really looking capable of covering for him.

Enrique is the player for working it calmly out from the back?  If he wanted to be, I agree.  But that hasn't appeared to be his game.  And doesn't Flanagan count as someone capable of covering for him, if he counts on the left? 

[Schmidt]

Enrique is the player for working it calmly out from the back?  If he wanted to be, I agree.  But that hasn't appeared to be his game.  And doesn't Flanagan count as someone capable of covering for him, if he counts on the left? 

Really? Every now and then he'll have a mad moment but generally he's good at showing for the ball, passing, holding off players and contributing to our attack. Flanagan is maybe good cover at right-back but I have no idea how long he's out injured for, at least at left-back Cissokho is fit and Enrique isn't far away.

[Homo rubrum]

Fo me, he just looks to alter the rhythm of the game too often.  His pacing is more erratic than his decision making.  And the job I'm talking about that Johnson once upon a time did so well- steadily working the ball up the pitch in the first and middle third- requires consistency and reliability, or else the rest of the team can no longer base their movement off of it. 

I love watching Enrique, fwiw.  The dynamism he brings to the role is rare, and the intricacy of some of the moves he's involved in is wonderful.  But I recall a few games when we faced a high pressing side when working it down his flank all but stopped being an option.  Maybe it's because he gets too caught up in winning his individual physical battle? Because- as you say, he does all the individual pieces that would seem to add up to the whole very well. 

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Hope he plays in the cup. He badly needs games to find his form. I think he is improving slowly, but surely.

[robgomm]

He looks dopey and dispassionate when he plays which, wrongly, mars my impression of him subconsciously.

I don't think he lacks desire for the game. I do think he looks like he lacks a bit of game intelligence/concentration. In fact, if you go back and watch the Hull game first-half, listen to the shouts of "Aly" and see what's going on. There's a few times where players are telling him where to be, I think Agger tells him to "stay on the man" at one point (look from about 9:30).

He looks like he still needs guiding a bit in terms of positioning and his role in the team. If he responds to that, hopefully he'll improve. I thought he did better second half anyway.

[dosx]

Will Ryan Bertrand join in? Another great option.

He looks dopey and dispassionate when he plays which, wrongly, mars my impression of him subconsciously. He actually had a solid game yesterday, proving he can look pretty decent against opposition that posed little problems. Would love to see him really kick on in the cup game to give him the confidence to nail down the lb spot for the time being. Take your chance Aly.

[fewmin' bedwetter]

A shout out for the lad - I like him. He's grown on me. I'm quite happy about him starting games now.
Pace is excellent, and it seems his confidence is growing. His touch and passing look confident.
Attitude has been A1 from day one.
Wonder if Brendan might even be considering him for left CB if Agger is out...

[harryc]

A shout out for the lad - I like him. He's grown on me. I'm quite happy about him starting games now.
Pace is excellent, and it seems his confidence is growing. His touch and passing look confident.
Attitude has been A1 from day one.
Wonder if Brendan might even be considering him for left CB if Agger is out...

What before Skrtel and Toure!

[stanleylhs]

I like his attacking play more than Enrique's by keeping it simple. He keeps the ball moving and put in some nice crosses unlike Jose who may give us a few brain farts in a game where he holds on to the ball for too long or picks the bizarre wrong pass. He also has the advantage for being a natural left footer over Flanno who usually needs to adjust the ball to his right before crossing which gives the opposition defense time to organize their shape.

However, like what have been said above, his lack of concentration in defending means he can't be our first choice.

[hesbighesred]

I think he's quietly been gaining form and confidence in the last few games - tidy in attack and almost solid in defence. If he can improve a bit more he might well be worth a punt at the end of the season - I like his pace, and as Stanleylhs pointed out I like it that he keeps it simple in attack, and puts in a decent cross too - he seems to make decent decisions in that respect, knowing when it's better to curl one in, to pass it across/cut it back or when to just keep possession.

[fowlermagic]

He has his chance right now so lets see how he goes. I was impressed with how young Flanagan grabbed his chance and based on the few games he got I think the lad might be the right back spot for the long term. I would not be rushing out to spend big on the full back spots as if form was recovered and all were fit then Johnson/Kelly/Enrique/Flanagan be a tidy step forward for next season.

[BazC]

I think he's quietly been gaining form and confidence in the last few games - tidy in attack and almost solid in defence. If he can improve a bit more he might well be worth a punt at the end of the season - I like his pace, and as Stanleylhs pointed out I like it that he keeps it simple in attack, and puts in a decent cross too - he seems to make decent decisions in that respect, knowing when it's better to curl one in, to pass it across/cut it back or when to just keep possession.

I agree, I think he's improved - definitely looked better these last couple of games. If he keeps it up, he'll be a better option than Enrique, if only because he can consistently offer that solidity. That's something we've not had really, apart from Flanagan, but he's not even a LB really.

He's got 5 months to win a place in the squad. Good luck to him.

[Hazell]

I agree, I think he's improved - definitely looked better these last couple of games. If he keeps it up, he'll be a better option than Enrique, if only because he can consistently offer that solidity. That's something we've not had really, apart from Flanagan, but he's not even a LB really.

He's got 5 months to win a place in the squad. Good luck to him.

On what sense do you mean by 'he can offer that solidity'? I think Enrique without the ball is generally very good, his positioning and his awareness is sound and he rarely gets dribble past - his pace and strength are a huge factor in that and can help him whenever he gets caught out anyway.

He's inconsistent when we have the ball though, he's capable of doing something brilliant one moment and something which leaves you thinking 'what the heck is he doing?' the next. If his decision making and his execution could become consistent, then he'd be a heck of a player but at present it can be very frustrating.

As it is, I still think he'd get back into our team - Flanagan has performed really well but doesn't yet offer the support down the left hand side and like yourself and rafa, I think Cissokho's improved and looks a lot more solid for us now but I just prefer Enrique's penetration down the flanks. I certainly think we can improve upon both Cissokho and Enrique but it's not so much a priority position for us given who we currently have.

[BazC]

On what sense do you mean by 'he can offer that solidity'? I think Enrique without the ball is generally very good, his positioning and his awareness is sound and he rarely gets dribble past - his pace and strength are a huge factor in that and can help him whenever he gets caught out anyway.

He's inconsistent when we have the ball though, he's capable of doing something brilliant one moment and something which leaves you thinking 'what the heck is he doing?' the next. If his decision making and his execution could become consistent, then he'd be a heck of a player but at present it can be very frustrating.

As it is, I still think he'd get back into our team - Flanagan has performed really well but doesn't yet offer the support down the left hand side and like yourself and rafa, I think Cissokho's improved and looks a lot more solid for us now but I just prefer Enrique's penetration down the flanks. I certainly think we can improve upon both Cissokho and Enrique but it's not so much a priority position for us given who we currently have.

I think fullback (like all of defence really) is a position where it's probably ok if you have a solid but unspectacular player. As opposed to someone who tries risky stuff. That's what I meant about solidity - in that Cissokho, as long as he keeps things going, he's solid in defence and can at least make the numbers up in attack (even if he's not going to send in rasping crosses/shots, he can at least be the passing outlet to help keep the ball etc) then he'll be good enough to have in the squad. It's basically what Flanagan does so well.

Enrique's problem is as you say in the 2nd paragraph. He's an enigma. He's talented enough to take players on and beat them - but stupid enough (at least at times) to pass the ball straight back to them when he's done so. I've seen him literally take on a fullback/winger at the same time, get passed them with some sublime skill, but then pass the ball straight to the opponent when he's got the whole of the left flank suddenly ready to attack. He's just not intelligent. Also, how many times have we needed a goal, have got the opponent's goal under siege, there're a couple of minutes left on the clock, and Jose thinks it's wise to crack a shot from 30 yards out? I mean bloody hell, has he ever even scored such a goal in his career?! He really can be infuriating despite having the talent and athleticism to be a top player in his position.

I think in defence, you'd rather have a limited player who's intelligent on the ball and can read the game rather than a player who's talented but prone to waves of stupidity.

I'm not saying Cissokho is that player by the way - just that there's an indication over the last couple of games that he can be pretty solid. If that continues and he finds a consistency to such performances, then he may well win a place in the squad/first team, especially if Enrique's going to carry on being a bit dimwitted.

[Hazell]

I think fullback (like all of defence really) is a position where it's probably ok if you have a solid but unspectacular player. As opposed to someone who tries risky stuff. That's what I meant about solidity - in that Cissokho, as long as he keeps things going, he's solid in defence and can at least make the numbers up in attack (even if he's not going to send in rasping crosses/shots, he can at least be the passing outlet to help keep the ball etc) then he'll be good enough to have in the squad. It's basically what Flanagan does so well.

Enrique's problem is as you say in the 2nd paragraph. He's an enigma. He's talented enough to take players on and beat them - but stupid enough (at least at times) to pass the ball straight back to them when he's done so. I've seen him literally take on a fullback/winger at the same time, get passed them with some sublime skill, but then pass the ball straight to the opponent when he's got the whole of the left flank suddenly ready to attack. He's just not intelligent. Also, how many times have we needed a goal, have got the opponent's goal under siege, there're a couple of minutes left on the clock, and Jose thinks it's wise to crack a shot from 30 yards out? I mean bloody hell, has he ever even scored such a goal in his career?! He really can be infuriating despite having the talent and athleticism to be a top player in his position.

I think in defence, you'd rather have a limited player who's intelligent on the ball and can read the game rather than a player who's talented but prone to waves of stupidity.

I'm not saying Cissokho is that player by the way - just that there's an indication over the last couple of games that he can be pretty solid. If that continues and he finds a consistency to such performances, then he may well win a place in the squad/first team, especially if Enrique's going to carry on being a bit dimwitted.

I do kind of agree with that and can see that point of view except my feeling is that Enrique rarely gives it away in dangerous areas and I'd personally be willing to forgo that slightly more risk averse nature of Cissokho and Flanagan and have someone like Enrique who's far more capable of supporting the attack for us than either of those two. Since Enrique's been out, we've rarely attacked down our left and I think it'll be a great boost to have him back purely because we can do that with him in the side.

Definitely agree about Enrique being a bit brainless sometimes, I keep thinking 'if only he could sort that out, he'd be absolutely terrific for us' because he has it all aside from that.

Am pleased with Cissokho though and who knows, now that he's settled a little more, we might start to see more of him in that regards as well.

[BazC]

That's the thing - if he's settling into it, then we'll hopefully see what he's capable of over the next couple of months. We've had a few players this season who've needed that few games of regular football to really start producing - Sterling is an example, but so's Flanagan. Flanagan was solid, unspectacular, but then suddenly the lad's flying. He's doing bloody Cruyff turns and taking on 2 players in his last match! Would like to see the same happen with Cissokho if he gets the game time.

If we can sort LB out, Flanagan can go back to RB and provide cover for Johnson (who really doesn't look fit these days).

[Hazell]

Yeah good point. It'd at at least mean one of our fullback positions get sorted. I'm not so sure it's fitness (he looks ok to me) but Lord knows what's happening with Johnson on the other side, I'm hoping it's purely a bad run of form and he can shake himself out of it. Maybe some competition with Kelly or Flanagan may help him.

[Tony19:6]

Still not seen anything in his game to suggest he's anywhere near good enough for a first XI slot.

Probably fifth choice after Enrique, Johnson, Flanno and the canteen lady.

[spider-neil]

Unbelieveable to think that no more than 3 years ago Cissokho would be my number one choice at left back. He was a beast at Porto and Lyon. I suspect his problems are in his head but the Cissokho of 3 years past pretty much could have played for any team he wanted.

[justsean]

Unbelieveable to think that no more than 3 years ago Cissokho would be my number one choice at left back. He was a beast at Porto and Lyon. I suspect his problems are in his head but the Cissokho of 3 years past pretty much could have played for any team he wanted.

Was he that good mate? I never watched him so can't say - but I remember there always being a lot of hype about him in WTF and STF Threads gone by.

[Cid]

Has to be fitness to some extent surely?   I don't remember him looking half as heavy when he was at his best.

[spider-neil]

Was he that good mate? I never watched him so can't say - but I remember there always being a lot of hype about him in WTF and STF Threads gone by.

Raw power and pace and a brilliant cross.
He was charge down the wing and his team mates would just pour forwards because they knew he would create something from the touch line. I haven't seen any of that here. Maybe he is worried about 'opening up' as he is worried his ankle will go again. 

[justsean]

Raw power and pace and a brilliant cross.
He was charge down the wing and his team mates would just pour forwards because they knew he would create something from the touch line. I haven't seen any of that here. Maybe he is worried about 'opening up' as he is worried his ankle will go again.

Real shame if so, because it sounds like exactly what we could do with from LB. I never feel like something exciting will happen when he runs forward with the ball.

[rocco]

Unbelieveable to think that no more than 3 years ago Cissokho would be my number one choice at left back. He was a beast at Porto and Lyon. I suspect his problems are in his head but the Cissokho of 3 years past pretty much could have played for any team he wanted.

Rememver him been great in a back 4 at Lyon with the formation in front of the 4 changing from week to week but the back 4 always stayed a back 4

[Schmidt]

Real shame if so, because it sounds like exactly what we could do with from LB. I never feel like something exciting will happen when he runs forward with the ball.

He's looked a lot less tentative in his last few games, it seems like it's just taking him time on time pitch to push past his issues. The plus point for us is there's still nearly half a season to go, so if he manages to continue improving we can buy him quite cheap in the summer or let him leave if he doesn't keep improving.

[Hank Scorpio]

I can remember the six months he had at Porto.  He was brilliant.  Never saw him at Lyon or Valencia. 

He looked like a completely different player when he joined us.  Lacking coordination and perhaps even a tad unfit.  I haven't seen the last two games that he's started but he had a decent match against City, even though he made a poor choice with the ball just before HT which led to the goal.

Maybe he's playing his way in.  Maybe he needed a few months to get fit because he did look like a pub player at times.  Let's hope Rodgers can add value and get Cissokho back to the Porto days.  Just wondering did he play behind a winger/midfielder which allowed him to get up the pitch in that team?  Because he seemed to be everywhere for Porto.

[Tony19:6]

I didnt know too much about him before he joined, but he came here with a clean slate and has been very unimpressive.
To be candid he's a liability for me and if we have designs on the top 4, we cant afford the luxury of 'playing in' footballers whose best days were a few years ago & in a different league, in the feint hope they may come good.
If we have no other option, then thats different...

[harryc]

He may have been brilliant many years ago, what that got to do with the here and now he is simply a liability offers nothing going forward and quite often out of position defensively.
There is a reason he was offered out on loan by Valencia..............go figure!

[GrkStav]

Have the last few posts been written by people who have not watched the last two or three matches in which Cissokho has featured, I wonder?

[harryc]

Have the last few posts been written by people who have not watched the last two or three matches in which Cissokho has featured, I wonder?

Ummh I was at the Oldham game and he quite obviously has zero confidence in passing forward never mind taking the ball forward himself its always back to Mig.

Apologies if you have lower standards of what a Liverpool fullback should be able to deliver

[GrkStav]

Ummh I was at the Oldham game and he quite obviously has zero confidence in passing forward never mind taking the ball forward himself its always back to Mig.

Apologies if you have lower standards of what a Liverpool fullback should be able to deliver

Why would a fullback be required to carry the ball forward himself, in our system?

To whom is the fullback in our system supposed to pass forward to and from which position on the pitch?

Does Glen Johnson carry the ball forward himself or pass forward a whole lot as far as you can tell?

Btw, thanks for raising my standards. It is through the good will and generosity of supporters like you that the likes of me can get better.

[DanA]

Why would a fullback be required to carry the ball forward himself, in our system?

To whom is the fullback in our system supposed to pass forward to and from which position on the pitch?

Does Glen Johnson carry the ball forward himself or pass forward a whole lot as far as you can tell?

Btw, thanks for raising my standards. It is through the good will and generosity of supporters like you that the likes of me can get better.

1. Because generally they are the ones providing width. A fullbacks role is almost as much about getting forward as it is defending. That includes getting the ball in advance positions and carrying the ball forward when the opportunity arises.

2. Mostly the wide player in front of them but really it's whoever is in the best position. Johnson to Henderson was a one of our top passing combinations early in the season.

3. Yes Johnson does carry the ball forward and get on the ball a lot more. He averages just shy of double the amount of passes Cissokho does. It's no coincidence that we play much more down our right side.

[Scouse-Lad-Lfc]

Really harsh thread on Cissokho this, he was brought in as back up and when he's been called upon he's done well, nothing amazing but he hasn't let us down either, give him a break.

[GrkStav]

1. Because generally they are the ones providing width. A fullbacks role is almost as much about getting forward as it is defending. That includes getting the ball in advance positions and carrying the ball forward when the opportunity arises.

2. Mostly the wide player in front of them but really it's whoever is in the best position. Johnson to Henderson was a one of our top passing combinations early in the season.

3. Yes Johnson does carry the ball forward and get on the ball a lot more. He averages just shy of double the amount of passes Cissokho does. It's no coincidence that we play much more down our right side.

1. What does that have to do with them "carrying the ball forward"? If they only do so if they're already in advanced positions and getting the ball, "carrying the ball forward" only possibly means taking on a defender one-v-one. I conceded that Cissokho does that less than Johnson (at his best) but that's neither here nor there, as even Johnson does not (need to) do it often enough.

2. Mate, do you think you need to tell me this? Have I given you the impression that I don't watch games carefully enough and often enough, and do not also (attempt at least to) look at the statistics? In our system, the fullbacks pass forward either to the wide-forward/winger on their flank (usually while not themselves facing forward) or (less frequently) to one of the '2' in the '1-2' central midfield triangle. And they do so from a position close to the midway line. When Coutinho is on the flank with Cissokho, the latter does attempt to pass 'forward' to him. There is NOTHING in the 4-3-3 that indicates that the fullbacks should be regularly passing forward, nothing, unless they're already close to the final third.

3. Double the number of a small number of forward passes is not necessarily itself a large number. No shit our left fullback passes the ball forward less than Glen Johnson. Kelly passes the ball forward less than Glen Johnson.

All in all, the post to which I was responding was critiquing Cissokho on the basis of bullshit criteria. And, in response to my disagreement, tried to pull 'rank' on me.

[Gilmour]

I remember this one... Porto bought him from a low budget team here in Portugal, Setúbal, for under a million, and sold him for 15M€ to Lyon, after his transfer to Milan was aborted, due to... teeth problems. Obviously he was not worth that price.

He seemed good at Porto, but he can't be a first option for Liverpool. I mean... his feet are like bricks.

[RoshanA]

New country, new league ... he's done okay. This is what he was bought for ... for some backup, with the hope he might turn it on. Whilst he hasn't set the earth on fire, he's useful to have in our squad this season.

[ArchieC]

New country, new league ... he's done okay. This is what he was bought for ... for some backup, with the hope he might turn it on. Whilst he hasn't set the earth on fire, he's useful to have in our squad this season.

True. Especially with the injuries we've had to our full backs.

[Captain Kos]

This may not be popular opinion but I think that was his best game for us. He was really physical in the first half and stopped a lot of their play down his side
He didn't have much help so was restricted in his forward play. Definitely some signs of improvement there. He has 5 months to really prove himself.