Poll

So who are you?

FF
21 (6.5%)
SF
121 (37.7%)
FG
21 (6.5%)
Labour
70 (21.8%)
GP
11 (3.4%)
Ind/Others
77 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 321

Author Topic: The Irish Politics Thread.  (Read 460212 times)

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4520 on: May 24, 2017, 06:34:47 pm »
Unionism tended to listen to Mcguinness much more than Gerry Adams. People I know switch off when he comes on the TV.

Not just Unionists to be honest mate, in the South Adams would be not liked in many quarters where as McGuinness was tolerated more.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4521 on: May 24, 2017, 06:36:40 pm »
So how do we all feel about poor auld Seany Fitz getting away with the Anglo Marlarky?
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Offline KERRYKOP

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4522 on: May 24, 2017, 09:49:44 pm »
So how do we all feel about poor auld Seany Fitz getting away with the Anglo Marlarky?
Class

Up the Republic! Best little country to do business in

Offline conman

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4523 on: May 24, 2017, 10:01:25 pm »
So how do we all feel about poor auld Seany Fitz getting away with the Anglo Marlarky?
The government will never jail one of their own.
There is no justice in this country vs the banks/government/establishment, etc.

Offline conman

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4524 on: May 24, 2017, 10:04:00 pm »
I wish Leo would talk about improving the wellbeing of the citizens, so that the homeless issues are addressed, the drugs problems cleaned up, education invested in. etc.

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4525 on: May 24, 2017, 10:20:15 pm »
Gemma O'Doherty‏ @gemmaod1  2m

 Allegations of offshore bank accounts revealed in internal Garda audit of Templemore training college
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Offline MBL?

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4526 on: May 24, 2017, 11:43:15 pm »
Going after dole cheats and making a public song and dance about it not populist enough for you?

Leo is another lizard
There is no mention of dole cheats, this guy isn't a Tory or GOP head. From what I can see he wants less of a squeeze on the middle class. 40% in the low 30's is ridiculous and the tax on sole traders is one of the reasons I ended up on the dole in 2008/9.
And if they all went and got new jobs, who'd drive the buses?
Just about every person out there who drives bus/truck would be in for them. The pay and conditions are infinitely better.

Actually that's bollocks cause the drivers wouldn't even consider leaving if they knew they couldn't strike when they felt up for a massive pay rise payed by the passengers and tax payer.

Offline MBL?

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4527 on: May 24, 2017, 11:54:28 pm »
If you think I'm bitter towards public sector workers you would be mostly right. But at the same time I don't blame them for taking everything they can because honestly I would as well if the opportunity arose. It's only human.

The thing is, is that what they are paid relative to the private sector and even more so their pensions could do real damage to society.

Not as much as the dodgy bankers have but then two wrongs don't make a right and we have to make the best we can do now.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:56:00 pm by MBL? »

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4528 on: May 25, 2017, 03:34:42 pm »
If you think I'm bitter towards public sector workers you would be mostly right. But at the same time I don't blame them for taking everything they can because honestly I would as well if the opportunity arose. It's only human.

The thing is, is that what they are paid relative to the private sector and even more so their pensions could do real damage to society.

Not as much as the dodgy bankers have but then two wrongs don't make a right and we have to make the best we can do now.



Vast majority of Pubic/Civil servants are not that well paid.
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4529 on: May 26, 2017, 04:22:54 pm »
Just about every person out there who drives bus/truck would be in for them. The pay and conditions are infinitely better.

Actually that's bollocks cause the drivers wouldn't even consider leaving if they knew they couldn't strike when they felt up for a massive pay rise payed by the passengers and tax payer.
Surely those truck/bus drivers would all be off getting those better jobs you mentioned, and we're back to square one? I'd much rather drive a coach for Bus Eireann or something. That's a much handier number than working for Dublin Bus.
I wouldn't want to be a Dublin bus driver if they paid me in bags of gold. It's a hellish job and they have to put up with some awful shite on a daily basis.

Offline MBL?

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4530 on: May 26, 2017, 07:36:26 pm »
Vast majority of Pubic/Civil servants are not that well paid.
I've seen no evidence of that. I'd love to know if any are earning as low as the living wage.
Surely those truck/bus drivers would all be off getting those better jobs you mentioned, and we're back to square one?
This capitalism thing is mad like that.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 07:38:34 pm by MBL? »

Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4531 on: May 27, 2017, 12:26:26 pm »
I've seen no evidence of that. I'd love to know if any are earning as low as the living wage.
Why, is that what you think they should be earning? These people are helping run the country and get little thanks for it.
You make it sound like they're just on a money grab, and to compare them to bankers is beyond the pale. Maybe if successive governments hadn't made promises to them that they were unable or unwilling to keep, they wouldn't be so demanding.
We live in a country where c*nts like Seanie Fitzpatrick get a free ride fleecing people for all they're worth, but apparently it's the greedy public sector workers that are the problem. The mind boggles.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4532 on: May 27, 2017, 12:33:49 pm »
This capitalism thing is mad like that.
Society doesn't have to be a race to the bottom. Even a capitalistic one.

Offline MBL?

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4533 on: May 28, 2017, 03:10:43 am »
Why, is that what you think they should be earning? These people are helping run the country and get little thanks for it.
Why should they get anymore than people in the private sector for a similar task is my point.


Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4534 on: May 28, 2017, 09:29:45 am »
Why should they get anymore than people in the private sector for a similar task is my point.

There is always a premium to be paid for public services. That's whether it is delivered directly by public servants or contracted out to private provision.

Your point is that the drivers for the private operators are not earning as much as Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann drivers. That's not empirically because the state providers are paying the drivers too much. It might just as easily be because the private providers are paying too little and keeping the lions share of the profits for themselves.  Remember, it is the profitable routes that attract private operators, not the unprofitable ones. In that regard The state is subsidising those independent operators as much as they are the semi state providers.

It's no secret that public transport is costing the state more now in the UK then before privatisation. is the service better? I don't know but speaking specifically about Ireland and having commuted to work from North County Dublin to the City on both Irish Rail and Bus Eireann for as long as I can remember, my experience is that, given the infrastructure available to operational staff in those companies, I think they do a tremendous job. Rural people may have a different experience.

Not withstanding all this, I personally am not against the principle of the state partnering with private provision in the transport area. I am against privatisation. A partnership arrangement with strict regulations, including prevention of the exploitation of workers, might be equitable. It would not be straightforward and definitely should not be introduced to the detriment of state employees who signed up to serve the public, in good faith, on agreed terms.

Full disclosure here - I am a public servant ( not in transport sector)so I am most likely biased here. I do expect that you might be a little biased too though.
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4535 on: May 28, 2017, 10:11:28 am »
Why should they get anymore than people in the private sector for a similar task is my point.

Because a public service is not in competition with a private one.
A public service is set up to serve society. A private service is set up to generate profits for its owners. Private services are in competition with each other, and lower wages is one means of generating more profits and gaining a market advantage over rival services.

Public services shouldn't be exposed to the rigors of market forces. It's in society's best interests that their workers are being sufficiently well paid and attracting the best staff it can. If you start to lower wages as low as you can get away with (like a private service), then society is the loser as the quality of that service declines.
The other side of that argument of course, is that if you privatize public services and expose them to market forces, then only the best ones will survive which is good for society. But that doesn't always end up being the case, as the most profitable private services aren't always the best for the customer/society.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4536 on: May 28, 2017, 10:16:41 am »
...

It might just as easily be because the private providers are paying too little and keeping the lions share of the profits for themselves. 

...
Exactly. The real problem here isn't that public sector workers are being too much. It's that private sector workers aren't being paid enough.

Another problem is the way unions have been demonized in this country for the past 20 years. Try joining a private sector union these days, and people look at you like you're joining some mad cult.

Union membership in Ireland:
1980 - 62%
1994 - 46%
2003 - 38%
2014 - 28% (17% in the private sector)

https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/eurwork/articles/industrial-relations/ireland-steady-union-density-decline-over-last-decade
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 10:33:49 am by kennedy81 »

Offline Corkboy

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4537 on: June 2, 2017, 06:25:40 pm »
Leo winner alright.

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4538 on: June 2, 2017, 07:19:34 pm »
Leo winner alright.

Yeo, i see Lucinda is tweeted him. Is it can I have a job again Leo ;D Interwsting thing for me is 68% of the grassroots voted Coveney.
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4539 on: June 2, 2017, 07:49:58 pm »
Leo winner alright.
Yeah, comfortable in the end. Almost all undeclared must have gone for him.
Not a big fan, but at least you wouldn't be worried about him on the international stage.

Yeo, i see Lucinda is tweeted him. Is it can I have a job again Leo ;D Interwsting thing for me is 68% of the grassroots voted Coveney.
Every time I hear the word grassroots these days, I shudder.

Offline Libertine

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4540 on: June 2, 2017, 07:58:08 pm »
Absolutely extraordinary when you think of it.

A historic day - Congrats Leo!



Trudeau, Macron, Varadkar - the new generation of leaders....

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4541 on: June 3, 2017, 01:48:54 am »
Don't know much about his politics, but for the country me and family left this is yet another step forward.

Irish Catholic Church must be loving this.  ;D
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4542 on: June 3, 2017, 11:10:44 am »
Don't know much about his politics, but for the country me and family left this is yet another step forward.

Irish Catholic Church must be loving this.  ;D
They'll be fuming, which is great.

One thing that worries me is that 68% that Sarge mentioned. There could be a lot of people in rural areas on the right, who don't feel represented. Even more so now with a liberal, gay leader who drunk auld fellas in bars around the country will be telling you 'isn't even Irish'. There's a danger that the disconnect between liberal Dublin and conservative rural Ireland will grow.

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4543 on: June 3, 2017, 11:29:21 am »
Absolutely extraordinary when you think of it.

A historic day - Congrats Leo!



Trudeau, Macron, Varadkar - the new generation of leaders....

I know it's not politically correct to say it, but it's an abomination and against the natural order of things.


I'm not having it that both the Taoiseach and French president are both younger than me. Down with this sort of thing.
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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4544 on: June 3, 2017, 11:32:39 am »
Is Norris Cole's dad not in charge any more?

Offline Libertine

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4545 on: June 3, 2017, 11:32:52 am »
I know it's not politically correct to say it, but it's an abomination and against the natural order of things.


I'm not having it that both the Taoiseach and French president are both younger than me. Down with this sort of thing.

Fucking hell, tell me about it.

Just getting over the fact that every footballer is now younger than me. Now the political leaders are starting on it.

Beginning to feel I might not have made the most of life....

I blame RAWK.

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4546 on: June 3, 2017, 11:38:31 am »
Fucking hell, tell me about it.

Just getting over the fact that every footballer is now younger than me. Now the political leaders are starting on it.

Beginning to feel I might not have made the most of life....

I blame RAWK.
Fucking hell, tell me about it.

Just getting over the fact that every footballer is now younger than me. Now the political leaders are starting on it.

Beginning to feel I might not have made the most of life....

I blame RAWK.

Haha so true :D

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4547 on: June 3, 2017, 01:08:39 pm »
They'll be fuming, which is great.

One thing that worries me is that 68% that Sarge mentioned. There could be a lot of people in rural areas on the right, who don't feel represented. Even more so now with a liberal, gay leader who drunk auld fellas in bars around the country will be telling you 'isn't even Irish'. There's a danger that the disconnect between liberal Dublin and conservative rural Ireland will grow.

'Rural' Ireland isn't as backward as you think. It'll be auld fellas all over the country including Dublin that are upset over this. The younger 'rural' generation couldn't give a shit about his sexual orientation.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4548 on: June 3, 2017, 03:38:09 pm »
I live in rural Ireland, I know what it's like. Once you get out of the towns even, and into the small villages and countryside, you meet people with views that are less common in Dublin. Deffo more of a generational thing with regards sexual orientation though, you're right there.

I think we've been lucky in that our two main parties aren't as split along traditional left/right lines, so we've avoided much of the right wing populism that has sprang up elsewhere. I just worry that it's still there bubbling under the surface all the time, and it just hasn't had the political representation to stir it up.
And leaving all the Indian/gay stuff aside, I'm sure there'll be some simmering resentment of the fact that Varadkar lost the members vote by quite a margin.

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4549 on: June 3, 2017, 04:28:00 pm »
Is Norris Cole's dad not in charge any more?
He's our Queen, not our PM.


No, hang on a minute.. Phrasing..
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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4550 on: June 3, 2017, 10:44:03 pm »
'Rural' Ireland isn't as backward as you think. It'll be auld fellas all over the country including Dublin that are upset over this. The younger 'rural' generation couldn't give a shit about his sexual orientation.
We were all told before the marriage equality referendum that a strong showing from Dublin would carry the day. It didn't turn out like that at all with rural areas voting yes all over. Some people in the capital (I live there) believe stepping outside of Dublin is like stepping on the set of The Quiet Man

Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4551 on: June 4, 2017, 12:56:20 pm »
We were all told before the marriage equality referendum that a strong showing from Dublin would carry the day. It didn't turn out like that at all with rural areas voting yes all over. Some people in the capital (I live there) believe stepping outside of Dublin is like stepping on the set of The Quiet Man
This is true to a degree, but largely because we all see the country as divided between Dublin and the rest, which loosely gets referred to as 'the country'.
Whether you're from an urban area like Cork or Limerick city, or from a remote part of Mayo, many Dubs don't make a distinction there.

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4552 on: June 5, 2017, 03:31:04 pm »
They'll be fuming, which is great.

One thing that worries me is that 68% that Sarge mentioned. There could be a lot of people in rural areas on the right, who don't feel represented. Even more so now with a liberal, gay leader who drunk auld fellas in bars around the country will be telling you 'isn't even Irish'. There's a danger that the disconnect between liberal Dublin and conservative rural Ireland will grow.

Leo is a lot more conservative than you think, thats the thing that didi not show in his election, mark my words he is no liberal in many many ways.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4553 on: June 5, 2017, 03:36:34 pm »
Haha so true :D

Young fellas the lot of ya ;D
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Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4554 on: June 5, 2017, 03:37:53 pm »
Dublin - Great

Outside Dublin - Culshies.

Simples ;D (runs for cover)
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4555 on: June 5, 2017, 03:44:08 pm »
Dublin - Great

Outside Dublin - Culshies.

Simples ;D (runs for cover)

*Culchies.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4556 on: June 5, 2017, 06:46:30 pm »
Leo is a lot more conservative than you think, thats the thing that didi not show in his election, mark my words he is no liberal in many many ways.
I mean liberal in the Cameron/cosmopolitan sense. But yeah, some of his attacks on welfare and such are anything but liberal.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4557 on: June 7, 2017, 06:31:09 pm »
See our local Gardaí are claiming they are on par (or soon will be) with their counterparts in London in regards to a terrorist attack. These are the same lads who cant even stop a hit on an already suspected gang member in a crowded hotel and allow the hitman to walk off scot free. Laughable.
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4558 on: June 7, 2017, 10:52:23 pm »
See our local Gardaí are claiming they are on par (or soon will be) with their counterparts in London in regards to a terrorist attack. These are the same lads who cant even stop a hit on an already suspected gang member in a crowded hotel and allow the hitman to walk off scot free. Laughable.
I worry about the state the Gardai are in. There was something in the Guardian the other day about an Imam in Dublin warning them about the threat of radicalization going on in Ireland, and they basically ignored him.

Offline Sarge

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Re: The Irish Politics Thread.
« Reply #4559 on: June 8, 2017, 01:24:27 pm »
Poolbeg Incinerator needs closing until EPA/Gov/DCC do a full enivronmental impact audit on site. This is not good enough, not good at all.
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