Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread

[TepidT2O]

I'm genuinely surprised he's still at U19 level for England. I thought he would have been in the U21s

[jillcwhomever]

I am really looking forward to seeing  us use TAA more next season. This has been a real break-through season for him, and he certainly has all the qualities you need for a good right-back. Another player who has plenty of intelligence too, can't wait to see more of him.

[Chris~]

I'm genuinely surprised he's still at U19 level for England. I thought he would have been in the U21s

They're trying to keep the age groups together and hes not played enough senior football to really justify fast tracking him

[LiamG]

They're trying to keep the age groups together and hes not played enough senior football to really justify fast tracking him

they should keep all the age groups together for tournaments etc even after being called up to the first team

it's what every other nation does, but England don't

[Aceldama]

Tom Davies is still in this group too despite being a starter for Everton. The most talented players getting promoted to higher age groups has been a contributing factor to poor tournament performances for England youth teams. They seem to be actively trying to do a bit more to keep players together in their age group so young players, hopefully, come through the England youth set up with experience of winning and being key players not just experience of playing/training with older players, which is something they will all be exposed to within club football anyway.

[Chris~]

they should keep all the age groups together for tournaments etc even after being called up to the first team

it's what every other nation does, but England don't

Well they have been doing it a lot better recently, starting really with the 96 and 97 born players. The 98 group, current u19s, have had a few players promoted in to it as it's a pretty weak age group.

[TepidT2O]

They're trying to keep the age groups together and hes not played enough senior football to really justify fast tracking him

Ok, that makes sense.....

[jillcwhomever]

Woodburn and Wilson on the bench for Wales tonight, doubtless five minutes at the end.

[SwordInYourGut]

He loves a cross though which should be outcoached out of him to a degree as it's not gonna be effective for this team and focus more on getting to the byline and pulling it back or squaring it across the goal.

I disagree on this. Firmino, Wijnaldum, Can, Mane, Origi are all decent enough in the air, its just that the quality of our crossing is dire. The goal that TAA assisted for Origi, we should be trying a lot more of that when the team is looking hapless and out of ideas with the clock ticking down.

[Dim Glas]

Woodburn and Wilson on the bench for Wales tonight, doubtless five minutes at the end.

depends on the score, (yeah I know stating the obvious ), not being a friendly game, and being a huge game in terms of having a chance to qualify, unless he's needed, they'd be mad to play the kid just to tie him to a country that he's commited to anyway. If they need goals, they may as well bring him on sooner mind. Not like they have great attacking strength on the bench.

[SwordInYourGut]

Woodburn and Wilson on the bench for Wales tonight, doubtless five minutes at the end.

Whats the motivation to play Wilson?

[jillcwhomever]

Whats the motivation to play Wilson?

I was inferring to Woodburn not Wilson, just stating that Wilson was also on the bench.

[SwordInYourGut]

I was inferring to Woodburn not Wilson, just stating that Wilson was also on the bench.

Ah, sorry. Yes, you'd get terrible odds on that bet I'm afraid 

[Dim Glas]

with that wonderful thing called hindsight, I wish that neither Woodburn or Wilson had been called up now, both would have gained so much more working in Tenerife with Liverpool's coaches and team-mates this week. Oh well.

[jillcwhomever]

with that wonderful thing called hindsight, I wish that neither Woodburn or Wilson had been called up now, both would have gained so much more working in Tenerife with Liverpool's coaches and team-mates this week. Oh well.

Exactly my opinion entirely.

[Schmidt]

with that wonderful thing called hindsight, I wish that neither Woodburn or Wilson had been called up now, both would have gained so much more working in Tenerife with Liverpool's coaches and team-mates this week. Oh well.

They train with the first team already so they're getting plenty of time with Klopp and the other coaches, a little experience of travelling with the national team isn't going to hurt them.

[Dim Glas]

They train with the first team already so they're getting plenty of time with Klopp and the other coaches, a little experience of travelling with the national team isn't going to hurt them.

yeah it won't harm them for sure, but opportunities like this when a majority of younger players get the full attention of 3 out of 4 of the first team coaches on a 5 day training camp is pretty cool and not to be sniffed at  

[So… Howard Philips]

They train with the first team already so they're getting plenty of time with Klopp and the other coaches, a little experience of travelling with the national team isn't going to hurt them.

After seeing the yard dog tackle on Coleman I'm not sure about not being hurt!

[Dim Glas]

Some interesting comments by  Jürgen Klopp and Sheyi Oo as to what he wants from the him. Reflects a few comments I've read here that suggested that maybe he wasn't really applying himself at the highest level.

Kloppo's comments:

During the Reds’ training camp in Tenerife earlier this week, Klopp revealed that he sat down with Ojo recently after the England U19 international had asked him to outline what he needs to do to get another chance at senior level.

“The easiest answer was ‘more’, because when you are that skilled, then come on!” the boss told Liverpoolfc.com.

“[I asked] ‘When was the last time you did a 100 per cent sprint?’ Technical-wise he’s so good that he doesn’t use it, but that makes no sense because at the highest level you need this speed.

“Now at U23 level I can see him running like crazy to show ‘yes, I’m ready’ and that helps him a lot. Even in not-perfect games you can see he’s involved in other parts.

And comments from Ojo:

“He mentioned a couple of things that I’ve taken on board. Ever since then, in training and the U23 games I’ve played in, I’ve tried to showcase what he wants from me,” Ojo explained to Liverpoolfc.com.

“I feel like I’ve done well and listened to what the manager’s said, and hopefully in the near future I can get another chance, another opportunity. But until then I’ll keep working hard.”

When asked to elaborate, Ojo continued: “He mentioned that he wanted me show that I wanted it.

“As a young player there’s always going to be ups and downs and it’s been hard for me getting injured and then coming back and not really getting an opportunity, but I’ve had to dig deep with the support of the staff and I feel that I’m getting better in every game.

More here:
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/257783-sheyi-ojo-how-advice-from-jurgen-and-jordan-has-helped-me

[tubby]

Think we've all thought that about Ojo, his natural physical and technical ability means he can coast at youth level but he needs to get more involved if he wants to step up.

[jillcwhomever]

It is always good reading these articles, and seeing both sides of the interviews. No doubt about it, Klopp wants the players to be themselves, and express themselves naturally, use their gifts and individual qualities. I love that he is saying this to the younger players and encouraging that side to their development. These things are always a balance of course. You have to make them realize they need to put a regular effort into every game. But it is easy to think that some young players can forget about what their skills are all about. They become so obssessed about the effort they need to put into things, that they forget all about what they're actually good at doing.

Look at our form at the start of the season, how many of those great goals came from flicks and reverse passes? There should always be time for such skills in the game, providing the hard work has been done first. Hope it works out for Ojo, he is a good talent. 

[mrantarctica]

Could field a lot of younger players for a cup side next season. A lot of these boys are on the fringes of the first team already and very young. It seems we've always had good youngsters who excel up until that transition period into the first team and then they haven't really cut it. I really hope some of the current group can get to the next level esp the likes of Karius, TAA, Gomez, Grujic, Ejaria, Kent, Wilson, Ojo and Woodburn. Hard to imagine that the Grujic, Kent and Wilson are all the eldest in the group and only 20. Karius of course is 23 but that is pretty young for a Keeper.

[Chalky Boots]

Nice to see Sheyi has taken it on board. If ever there was a criticism of him is that - as Klopp has obviously cottoned onto- he loves to get by giving about 50-60% and about 100% in little bursts. That can get you buy at youth level but it's going to find you out fast at a senior level. Sterling broke through with arguably less of an overall package but what he had was sheer unrelenting application when he was on the pitch.

On paper Ojo has everything to become not just a good footballer but an elite level player if he fails to do that it's entirely on him because the club have done everything for him since we nabbed him from MK Dons.

Edit:

And the thing is, if sheyi were to reach an elite playing level then he could possibly do what he currently likes to with regards to his speed, but only when he gets to that level.

[dakid]

Some interesting comments by  Jürgen Klopp and Sheyi Oo as to what he wants from the him. Reflects a few comments I've read here that suggested that maybe he wasn't really applying himself at the highest level.

Garrity has had his say about Ojo lately also. Think it was a post match interview saying he needs more good performances not 1 good game in 10 now Klopp saying what the Wolves fans said one year ago. A lack of desire, application and not being direct were their big complaints. Issues evident since his u18 days really. Dropped by England for the last round of fixtures also hopefully all these coming at once are a wake up call. He has huge potential but....

[Robinred]

Joe Gomez starting at right back for England U-21s in Denmark - just kicked off at 6, for anyone interested.

[RogerTheRed]

See they won 4-0

[Robinred]

See they won 4-0

Joe played the full 90, and did very well getting forward. He got caught out positionally on a few occasions, but it was a very encouraging performance. Loftus-Cheek of Chelsea was outstanding; it's so difficult for their youngsters to break through. Needs a loan or to move on, soon.

The So'ton reserve full back, Sam McQueen - who we've been linked with - was very impressive at left back. Less so was Damari Grey, who came on for the final 25 minutes or so. I was happy we were linked with him, but on the night he was poor. Still, England have a lot of talent in this age group.

[Fromola]

Garrity has had his say about Ojo lately also. Think it was a post match interview saying he needs more good performances not 1 good game in 10 now Klopp saying what the Wolves fans said one year ago. A lack of desire, application and not being direct were their big complaints. Issues evident since his u18 days really. Dropped by England for the last round of fixtures also hopefully all these coming at once are a wake up call. He has huge potential but....

He was often shocking for hte under 18s. Wouldn't do anything in the game at all, but could turn it on in a game when he felt like. You don't expect players like that to make it, unless they have a change of attitude and desire.

[Dim Glas]

There's a good article about the Academy on Goal.com including interviews with Pep Lijnders and Alex Inglethorpe and how Jürgen Klopp is helping them progress and believes in the development of young players.

Some quotes here:

Lijnders, who runs the Talent Group, in which the best of the Academy aged between 14 and 21 train at the West Derby complex once a week with Jurgen Klopp intently watching on, is the bridge between both worlds.

One Academy staff member has remarked that the route from the youth structures to the senior squad is “more like a motorway now than a pathway. There’s so many more been given the chance to speed up their growth by working with the likes of Jordan Henderson and Adam Lallana.”

Inglethorpe and Lijnders are unequivocal about why this is: Klopp’s determination to build and bring through youth players.

“We’re passionate about developing our own,” the former states. “And we’ve got a manager that is more than brave enough to support and facilitate that development. It sends out a positive, encouraging message to everybody.  Your Academy can only be as strong as the manager’s belief in it and we’ve got an incredible one, who doesn’t just talk a good game on the importance of youth, he actions it and at times you think ‘wow!’

“Like against Burnley at Anfield [on March 12]. In a game the club have to win, on 60 minutes at 1-1, he trusts Ben to come on and help make a difference.

“He lives youth development and the owners back this completely, so it would be very unfair to say this is an Academy thing, this vision is a Liverpool one.”

Lijnders adds: “The moment a kid comes into contact with Jurgen and sees that he really cares and values youth, there is no replacement for that. And once a player is with us, they become part of the family - they get nutritional advice from Mona Nemmer, they sit with our team manager Ray Haughan and learn how we prepare to travel for away games, they have access to everyone and everything.

"If your first-team manager and staff don’t believe in development, it's sad because your Academy is a waste - you’re just producing players for someone else. With our Talent Group, we're showing the kids we really want to work with them.

More here: http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/683/main/2017/03/27/34041982/the-liverpool-motorway-the-old-school-route-from-the-academy

[NaivetyinBlack]

So apparently we might pay up to £8Mn for Solanke at the tribunal if we sign him.

Is he worth that much ?

[Too early for flapjacks?]

So apparently we might pay up to £8Mn for Solanke at the tribunal if we sign him.

Is he worth that much ?

But the move doesn't really make sense for anyone. I'm assuming he'd get more wages if stays at Chelsea and he'll get more playing time with the first 11 if he moves to a club in midtable. He isn't going to get anywhere near our current front 3 and there will even less chance if we strengthen with with a top striker - something he isn't. I really don't see this one happening too be honest.

[Escorcio]

So apparently we might pay up to £8Mn for Solanke at the tribunal if we sign him.

Is he worth that much ?

"Up to"
This will likely include appearance related fees, goal related and achievement (qualfying for champions league, winning premier league) related benchmarks.
The £8million figure is purely speculation as no one really knows what the tribunal would stipulate

[Coolie High]

I still want Ojo to be a CM, imagine him racing through the middle with all his guile pace and technique, you could even forgive his nonchalance maybe a bit more, a able Wijinaldum replacement in the ideal world.

[NaivetyinBlack]

Don't think Ojo protects the ball enough to be a full time CM. Maybe against teams who sit back but not midfield heavy ones.

[tubby]

I still want Ojo to be a CM, imagine him racing through the middle with all his guile pace and technique, you could even forgive his nonchalance maybe a bit more, a able Wijinaldum replacement in the ideal world.

Has nowhere near the football savvy or workrate that Gini has though.  Could play him as a 10 but I'd be amazed if he got a run out at centre mid in a Klopp team.

[Coolie High]

Has nowhere near the football savvy or workrate that Gini has though.  Could play him as a 10 but I'd be amazed if he got a run out at centre mid in a Klopp team.

He won't, its  hard for him to get a run out as a winger as it is, just saying in a fantasy world i would be interested in seeing him as a CM and he doesn't have the football savvy of a playmaker cm, but he is 19, how many cms do at that age? Brannagan had the football saavy, but he couldn't buy Ojos pace and power, as a 3rd cm he doesn't even need to be a top playmaking cm, Wijinaldum certainly isn't, the work rate i agree with, if he improves that he could even be a very good winger still.

[SwordInYourGut]

Should do a Zeki Fryers style shady deal for Solanke to buy him from a foreign club next Jan for around £4m 

[HopefulRed]

So apparently we might pay up to £8Mn for Solanke at the tribunal if we sign him.

Is he worth that much ?

Odd really compared to Ings.  He was a proven, prolific goalscorer at the point we bought him. 

[Chalky Boots]

Has nowhere near the football savvy or workrate that Gini has though.  Could play him as a 10 but I'd be amazed if he got a run out at centre mid in a Klopp team.

It's possibly true but you could argue that it's the same kind of thing as when Gini came through. Obviously only Sheyi will know what he feels is his best position but maybe it's trust thing. Gini gave an interview recently where he said he always felt himself as a midfielder, someone who is part of the team and not a soloist that many of his managers pigeonholed him as.

So far as Solanke goes, I think he's another who has fallen foul to the divide between youth academy and Chelsea's first team. The talk around him has always been one of he's not only good enough to play for Chelsea but he's good enough to play for, and even lead the attack of, England. Mourinho said he'd have failed if he hadn't made an England player out of him before he left (got sacked, so he failed).  At his very basic attributes he's a klopp kind of striker. Good speed, good heading, can link and play with his back to the goal and can finish but he's rough around the edges at all of those things.

[plura]

It's possibly true but you could argue that it's the same kind of thing as when Gini came through. Obviously only Sheyi will know what he feels is his best position but maybe it's trust thing. Gini gave an interview recently where he said he always felt himself as a midfielder, someone who is part of the team and not a soloist that many of his managers pigeonholed him as.

So far as Solanke goes, I think he's another who has fallen foul to the divide between youth academy and Chelsea's first team. The talk around him has always been one of he's not only good enough to play for Chelsea but he's good enough to play for, and even lead the attack of, England. Mourinho said he'd have failed if he hadn't made an England player out of him before he left (got sacked, so he failed).  At his very basic attributes he's a klopp kind of striker. Good speed, good heading, can link and play with his back to the goal and can finish but he's rough around the edges at all of those things.

As with every youth player it's so very difficult to predict the future. Even with the dead certain ones who are destined for glory it might just fade away to nothing. And Solanke was always a very special player. One probably most would have picked to make it at a younger age if they had to pick just one player. Can't say I know much about why he hasn't made it yet. If it's just typical Chelsea or him/combo. But like Ojo he seems to have the tools to make it, question if he will and where.