Author Topic: Fox News - Tucker's Fucked.  (Read 306515 times)

Offline nyctex

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #160 on: October 13, 2006, 02:37:52 pm »
There was another thread on this, but since this seems to be the FOX  News bashing thread du jour - I'll post this here.

Remember the big bruhaha about that Clinton interview with Chris Wallace?  Well this was in the Washington Post - a very-pro Clinton paper:


Chris Wallace, Card-Carrying Democrat?

By Amy Argetsinger and Roxanne Roberts
Wednesday, October 11, 2006; Page C03

In Sunday's New York Times Magazine, reporter Deborah Solomon asked "Fox News Sunday" anchor Chris Wallace what political party he belonged to. His answer: "None of your business."

Oh, please. Ever heard of a little thing called public records? After five minutes of exhaustive research, we found that Wallace is a registered Democrat and has been for more than two decades.

Wallace's political leanings were called into question by a red-faced Bill Clinton, who accused him of a "nice conservative little hit job" after Wallace asked a probing question about his administration's pursuit of Osama bin Laden . Clinton exploded in -- depending on your politics -- (a) a fit of righteous anger or (b) a premeditated display of Democratic mau-mauing.

The District resident says his party affiliation is driven by simple pragmatism: "The reason I'm a registered Democrat is that in Washington, D.C., there is really only one party," Wallace told us yesterday. "If you want a say in who's going to be the next mayor or councilman, you have to vote in the Democratic primary." (No offense intended, we're sure, to GOP D.C. Council rep Carol Schwartz or independent David Catania , who was first elected as a Republican.)

Wallace is a regular at his local polling place, and says he's voted for members of both parties. "Look, some people think [journalists] shouldn't vote at all -- I think that's a little silly. . . . However I vote personally, I think I'm professional enough that it doesn't have anything to do with the way I cover the news."

Offline SMD

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #161 on: October 13, 2006, 02:49:52 pm »
I wasn't really impressed with that Clinton interview anyway. It smacked of Michael Moore Sensationalism - a lot of people taken aback by "oooh, he said it bluntly on TV!" without realising that a lot more blunt and factual comments have already been said before.

The media mimics politics. There's no left and right any more. There's only relative positioning. Labour is left relative to the Conservatives, the Democrats left relative to the Republicans and now various media left of extreme right wing shit like Fox.

Companies like Fox - and ultimately NewsCorp - will keep dragging everyone further and further right in a 'ratings' war, which is more of a damning indictment of people today being unable to think for themselves.

So much for the technological age. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some Newspeak to be learning.
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Offline Notayesman

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #162 on: October 13, 2006, 02:59:46 pm »
A simple question: why does it matter to you and your equally obsessed Irish mates that a bunch of right-wing idiots in a completely different county watch a news channel that's been designed to cater to them?

And why do you all feel the need to complain about it on an interweb football site?

My guess is you're just posturing for each other in a circle jerk of mutual appreciation.

"See Paddy over there, he's really switched on and he's got a really huge knob, 'cos he hates America even more than Seamus does. You shoulda seen his last post on Red And White Kop! Hold on, I think I'm coming."






Wow, look at you, nothing like bringing in the ethnic stereo types. What a guy!

Offline Notayesman

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #163 on: October 13, 2006, 03:10:00 pm »
Bollocks. You are so full of shit right here that there's almost no need to go further. For example, the average American has significantly more disposable income than the average European. Google is your friend, and a report by a Swedish group called Timbro might be a good place to start. Or Wikipedia, which says that the average GDP per capita in the EU for 2007 will be US$32,900. Compared with US$40,000 in the US in 2005.

I love the ungainly way you try to separate people who attach themselves to football clubs into hooligans and others. And then only ascribe the motives of desperation and inadequacy to The Hooligans. Bullshit again.


Did you also read that the leading employer in all of the blue states was Wal*mart? Wal-mart happens to be the biggest employer in the world. One day we will all work for Wal*mart. And I will be your boss.

Oh, and you. Apparently



You really are the best!

Offline kesey

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #164 on: October 13, 2006, 04:10:04 pm »
What a guy!


D'ysee that pink thing next to the word gender?             :wave
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Offline AndyP

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #165 on: October 13, 2006, 04:13:42 pm »
A simple question: why does it matter to you and your equally obsessed Irish mates that a bunch of right-wing idiots in a completely different county watch a news channel that's been designed to cater to them?

And why do you all feel the need to complain about it on an interweb football site?

My guess is you're just posturing for each other in a circle jerk of mutual appreciation.

"See Paddy over there, he's really switched on and he's got a really huge knob, 'cos he hates America even more than Seamus does. You shoulda seen his last post on Red And White Kop! Hold on, I think I'm coming."






I didn't take offence to it, actually had a little chuckle at it.


Offline Alan_X

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #166 on: October 13, 2006, 04:38:52 pm »
Bollocks. You are so full of shit right here that there's almost no need to go further. For example, the average American has significantly more disposable income than the average European. Google is your friend, and a report by a Swedish group called Timbro might be a good place to start. Or Wikipedia, which says that the average GDP per capita in the EU for 2007 will be US$32,900. Compared with US$40,000 in the US in 2005.

The "average" US family? that's not the same as the per capita GDP as you must know. The World Factbook, bought to you by those great guys at the CIA, includes a very interesting statistic - the distribution of family income, or Gini index. This measures the degree of inequality in the distribution of family income in a country measured from 0 for absolute equality to 100 for absolute inequality.

A country like Sweden has a low gini of 25, Germany 28, Denmark 23, Belgium 25.... I'm ashamed to say that after years of Thatcherite/Blairite economics the UK's gini stands at 36.

And the good ol' US?... 45! up there with Nigeria and Burkinha Faso in the inequality stakes. So yes the per capita GDP of the US is one of the highest but most of it goes to the richest. And to prove how dumb the US population is... they thought that Bush's trillion dollar tax cuts benefited them!  - I can't think where they would have got that idea  ::) . I wouldn't be surprised if that inequality index hasn't gone up a notch or two now those cuts have started to redistribute the money upwards to an even greater degree.

But hey, like you say, why should I worry if the US population are like turkeys voting for Christmas (or Thanksgiving).
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Offline nyctex

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2006, 04:49:20 pm »
The "average" US family? that's not the same as the per capita GDP as you must know. The World Factbook, bought to you by those great guys at the CIA, includes a very interesting statistic - the distribution of family income, or Gini index. This measures the degree of inequality in the distribution of family income in a country measured from 0 for absolute equality to 100 for absolute inequality.

A country like Sweden has a low gini of 25, Germany 28, Denmark 23, Belgium 25.... I'm ashamed to say that after years of Thatcherite/Blairite economics the UK's gini stands at 36.

And the good ol' US?... 45! up there with Nigeria and Burkinha Faso in the inequality stakes. So yes the per capita GDP of the US is one of the highest but most of it goes to the richest. And to prove how dumb the US population is... they thought that Bush's trillion dollar tax cuts benefited them!  - I can't think where they would have got that idea  ::) . I wouldn't be surprised if that inequality index hasn't gone up a notch or two now those cuts have started to redistribute the money upwards to an even greater degree.

But hey, like you say, why should I worry if the US population are like turkeys voting for Christmas (or Thanksgiving).

Funny statistics right - but must be used with common sense.

take your country with a low GINI- like Sweden.  The bottom 10% makes Eur10,000 per year, but the top 10% makes Eur75,000

Now take the US where the bottom 10% makes Eur 18,000, but the top 10% makes Eur 250,000

Then Nigeria - bottom 10% at Eur 400 and top 10% at Eur8,000

Tell me - If you were in the bottom 10% - where would you like to live?

In the country that you would make Eur 10k, Eur 18k or Eur 400.

Offline Notayesman

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #168 on: October 13, 2006, 04:53:17 pm »

D'ysee that pink thing next to the word gender?             :wave

Sorry... what a tart!

Offline SMD

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2006, 04:55:25 pm »
Funny statistics right - but must be used with common sense.

take your country with a low GINI- like Sweden.  The bottom 10% makes Eur10,000 per year, but the top 10% makes Eur75,000

Now take the US where the bottom 10% makes Eur 18,000, but the top 10% makes Eur 250,000

Then Nigeria - bottom 10% at Eur 400 and top 10% at Eur8,000

Tell me - If you were in the bottom 10% - where would you like to live?

In the country that you would make Eur 10k, Eur 18k or Eur 400.

Can't look at it that simply. You have to compare the cost of living to make it a true comparison. 10k in Sweden might get you further than 18k in the US.
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Offline nyctex

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2006, 05:01:45 pm »
My numbers are made up and I, like any good economist, am making assuptions.  Just pointing out that this statstic isn't really relavent to much of anything, except to those that have class/wage envy and are more worried about others than themselves.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #171 on: October 13, 2006, 05:11:06 pm »
Funny statistics right - but must be used with common sense.

take your country with a low GINI- like Sweden.  The bottom 10% makes Eur10,000 per year, but the top 10% makes Eur75,000

Now take the US where the bottom 10% makes Eur 18,000, but the top 10% makes Eur 250,000

Then Nigeria - bottom 10% at Eur 400 and top 10% at Eur8,000

Tell me - If you were in the bottom 10% - where would you like to live?

In the country that you would make Eur 10k, Eur 18k or Eur 400.

I'd rather live in a country like Denmark or Sweden where the bottom 10% have a decent living and the top 2% aren't taking the piss, controlling the country through lobbyists, corrupt politicians and biased "news" organisations and where there is a decent welfare state funded by a fair tax system. I still cannot believe that my son had to lend his American girlfriend money so she could go to the doctor when he was over there for the most basic services. What kind of country is it that has so much wealth and treats its poor so badly.

And a lot of those poor countries are in a bad way because they have market economics thrust down their throats by the WMF as a condition for any aid they receive. Opening their industry to "foreign" investment to create sweat shops for Wal-Mart instead of sustainable local industries, or cash-crops instead of sustainable farming.



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Offline WillieBob

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #172 on: October 13, 2006, 05:34:09 pm »

Alan_F
"The Voice Of Reason"

Fuck me, was somebody taking the piss when they gave you that custom title?

nyctex makes a very good point but you totally ignore it and instead give us some tale about your son's girlfriend having to pay to see a doctor.

Voice of reason my arse - raving socialist more like. Mind you this being RAWK your views are probably seen as being the centre ground.
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Offline Fiend

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #173 on: October 13, 2006, 05:39:19 pm »
Voice of reason my arse - raving socialist more like. Mind you this being RAWK your views are probably seen as being the centre ground.

I thought he was a bit right wing actually ;)

Offline AndyP

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #174 on: October 13, 2006, 05:43:34 pm »
I still cannot believe that my son had to lend his American girlfriend money so she could go to the doctor when he was over there for the most basic services. What kind of country is it that has so much wealth and treats its poor so badly.


Where I come from its e50 to say 'hello' to your quack an the same before you are seen in A+E.

Offline Fiend

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #175 on: October 13, 2006, 05:44:44 pm »
Where I come from its e50 to say 'hello' to your quack an the same before you are seen in A+E.

If you earn under a certain amount or are over 70 you get a medical card though

Offline AndyP

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #176 on: October 13, 2006, 05:45:47 pm »
If you earn under a certain amount or are over 70 you get a medical card though

I'm neither (yet!)

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #177 on: October 13, 2006, 05:50:23 pm »
My numbers are made up and I, like any good economist, am making assuptions.  Just pointing out that this statstic isn't really relavent to much of anything, except to those that have class/wage envy and are more worried about others than themselves.

Is there anything wrong with being more worried about others than themselves? It's called compassion where I come from, not class/wage envy. I don't want the obscene wealth that the richest in the US have and despise the behaviour of those that choose to corrupt the political system to maintain, and increase that wealth while children are dying in their country through poverty and lack of medical care.

Hurricane Katrina showed up the US for what it has become, a third world oligarchy, where the poor were left to die in the streets. And getting back to the topic I saw some of the mealy mouthed shit that Fox came out with during Katrina including the comment that the poor stayed in New Orleans to be close to their drug dealers.

Quote
O'REILLY: Now, what's the real story? The real story is this: Ten percent of Americans, and 10 percent of any society, simply are so chaotic for whatever reason that they're never, ever going to be able to fend for themselves and make a living. They are either substance abusers, they're mentally ill, they're screwed up emotionally beyond -- they can't carry on a conversation, they're catatonic, schizophrenic, whatever it may be. No matter how much money you pour in, they're always going to be in that condition. It's not massive neglect, it's not; it's human nature.

Now, our government has a duty to provide a safety net so these people aren't living under bridges. But some of them are anyway, because all the entitlement money they get they spend on heroin or crack or alcohol. So they can't pay their rent because the money that they're given they spend on drugs and alcohol. So what do you do? Give them more money? They're not going to pay their rent, they're going to spend it on drugs and alcohol. And therefore, they're going to be out on the street with their hand out.

Many, many, many of the poor in New Orleans are in that condition. They weren't going to leave no matter what you did. They were drug-addicted. They weren't going to get turned off from their source. They were thugs, whatever.

Nice man... That would be 30 million chaotic, drug addicted losers in the US... would that be the 10% you were referring to in your made-up statistics?...  c*nt is too nice a word for him.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #178 on: October 13, 2006, 06:01:08 pm »
Alan_F
"The Voice Of Reason"

Fuck me, was somebody taking the piss when they gave you that custom title?

nyctex makes a very good point but you totally ignore it and instead give us some tale about your son's girlfriend having to pay to see a doctor.

Voice of reason my arse - raving socialist more like. Mind you this being RAWK your views are probably seen as being the centre ground.

 :wave

Of course it's a fair point and I didn't ignore it, he asked where I would prefer to live and I answered it. Obviously he was looking at things from a purely financial point of view, personally I think you have to consider conscience, morality and social equality, which is why I'd rather live in a country like Sweden on less money than a country like the US. His "made up" 18,000 in America has to cover the huge cost of medical insurance, so my comment about paying to see a doctor for basic treatment was hardly irrelevant.

I am fairly left-wing but I think you'll find most "reasonable" people are  ;).
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 06:05:33 pm by Alan_F »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #179 on: October 13, 2006, 06:07:36 pm »
No comment about the stupidity of the middle class and the poor backing Bush's tax cuts, Willie Bob?
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Offline nyctex

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #180 on: October 13, 2006, 06:21:17 pm »
Fiend is right, the truly destitute get care in the states.  EDIT: realized Fiend wasn't talking about US, but it is still the case

As far as my view of government's role in health care or social welfare is obviously different than your's.  I would rate a citizens donations to charities of his/her free will a much higher level of compassion than allowing funds being appropriated by the state.  The US far out ranks Europe as far as individual charity is concerned.  I like to have a say in where and how MY funds are spent.  That certainly doesn't make me unsympathetic - I would argue it makes me more involved - more "carring" - than someone that allows some bureaucrat to make that decision for me.

Anyway the social model of Europe is broken simple because there are too may elderly/non-producer to be supported by the working class (both rich and poorer)

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #181 on: October 13, 2006, 07:55:26 pm »
Fiend is right, the truly destitute get care in the states.  EDIT: realized Fiend wasn't talking about US, but it is still the case

As far as my view of government's role in health care or social welfare is obviously different than your's.  I would rate a citizens donations to charities of his/her free will a much higher level of compassion than allowing funds being appropriated by the state.  The US far out ranks Europe as far as individual charity is concerned.  I like to have a say in where and how MY funds are spent.  That certainly doesn't make me unsympathetic - I would argue it makes me more involved - more "carring" - than someone that allows some bureaucrat to make that decision for me.

Anyway the social model of Europe is broken simple because there are too may elderly/non-producer to be supported by the working class (both rich and poorer)

I don't agree the European social model is broken just yet. The argument about giving to charity allowing you to choose how YOUR funds are spent is one I disagree with (surprise!).

I must say that the figure for US giving is quite impressive but I would make a couple of observations. Firstly, without a decent welfare system, you have little option but to rely more on charity. Which highlights my concern about relying on charity and the idea that people can chose who to donate to. In the UK certain charities suffer because they just aren't attractive enough, giving to children, animals etc is always easy to encourage, as is anything tear-jerking. How do you ensure that the unattractive cases get what's neded. And if you are truly compassionate, isn't giving enough? What does it matter where it goes? There's also a worry when faith based charities get involved in issues where they take a moral stance.

Secondly, does that figure for donations include just registered charities or other non-profit organisations like the NRA (income $200m). Are churches charities in the US like they are in the UK? A lot of Americans pay a tithe (10%) of income to their church which I think is a regarded as a charitable donation (I think it is in the UK - not sure as I'm a godless atheist). In 2001, 8% of US Households tithed which would account for a lot of giving - 0.8% of houshold income give or take, depending on which people are most likely to do it. As far as I'm aware tithes are used to pay priests salaries, upkeep of the church etc... Correct me if I'm wrong.

Does it include pro-life groups and the like and does that huge figure include for the overheads and the high percentages some fundraisers charge? I don't know... just asking...

Please enlighten me. Personally I'd rather pay my taxes in the knowledge that people will receive according to their need, not the "popularity" of their case.
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Offline Eric

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #182 on: October 13, 2006, 08:20:04 pm »
Fiend is right, the truly destitute get care in the states.  EDIT: realized Fiend wasn't talking about US, but it is still the case

As far as my view of government's role in health care or social welfare is obviously different than your's.  I would rate a citizens donations to charities of his/her free will a much higher level of compassion than allowing funds being appropriated by the state.  The US far out ranks Europe as far as individual charity is concerned.  I like to have a say in where and how MY funds are spent.  That certainly doesn't make me unsympathetic - I would argue it makes me more involved - more "carring" - than someone that allows some bureaucrat to make that decision for me.

Anyway the social model of Europe is broken simple because there are too may elderly/non-producer to be supported by the working class (both rich and poorer)
First off not all of the truly destitute get care in the states.  More often than not they are thrown into jail, which is not "care".  Their situation often leads to desperate measures, like crime, or drugs.  There are tons of tax $$$ made on building prisons.  Could you imagine if we really supported destitute people, we wouldn't have to build as many jails.  We could spend that money on better schools, and healthcare.

The problem with charities, is that the money never gets to the people that need it.  The US outranks Europe because they tend to have better social programs and people don't have to donate.  Just like when you don't have to tip 15% in Europe, because the waiter gets paid a living wage.

I too would like to have a say in where my tax dollars are spent, rather than have some bureaucrat spend it on war. 

It makes no sense that Canada has universal health care, and the US doesn't.


Offline Alan_X

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #183 on: October 13, 2006, 08:44:05 pm »
There are tons of tax $$$ made on building prisons.  Could you imagine if we really supported destitute people, we wouldn't have to build as many jails.  We could spend that money on better schools, and healthcare.

Can't stop the prison building business, it's a growth area!
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Offline nyctex

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #184 on: October 13, 2006, 09:13:38 pm »
Just heading out of the office a little early today (Wow I feel like I'm back in Europe   ;D )  Will continue tomorrow, if you don't mind.  We can all bask in the glory of a Liverpool win.

Have a great night and kick the shit out of Blackburn!!!

Offline 4pool

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #185 on: October 14, 2006, 12:02:16 am »
Eric..
How many prisons were built in the USA last year or this?

Most communities don't want a prison near them. Zoning for one is a nightmare..

But surely you have some information in order to make a statement like that..
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #186 on: October 14, 2006, 12:34:30 am »
4pool why don't you actually read what you post,


Got me. :wave





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Offline 4pool

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #187 on: October 14, 2006, 12:46:05 am »
And all news agencies make mistakes, but to come at a story every single time with a preconceived bias is unforgiveable and no more fitting for the US than it should be for North Korea. Every agency gets caught up as was the BBC with David Kelly, we're not asking for the gospel truth ,we want news , not the mouthpiece of Murdoch.

Fox lies and misleads every day. That fucking toe rag Hannity trying to make excuses over paedo republicans actually tried to compare it to the young Monica Lewinsky that Clinton banged.

Well it is YOUR preconcieved bias that you inflic when you watch Fox News.

Again for the umteenth time...the presentation of news is one thing. I showed where the other "news" organizations had to apologize for getting "facts' or inventing facts to further their agenda or "lie" when presenting a story.

You keep going on about Hannity and O'Reilly. Neither one read the news or present the news stories. Do you spot the difference? Or is your preconcieved bias getting in the way? They are "opinion" shows. You have a problem with their opinions. So what.

As you --and a few others--have problems seperating the "news" division from the opinion side of the 24/7 channel, i'm really at a loss as to why. Well i'm not really--you just want to bash Fox News. And because YOU can't seperate News from opinion...you've lost the debate before you ever started.

I listed CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC---"NEWS" for having to apologize for errors. Now Fox News has been presenting "news" for 10 years--- are there any necessary apologies from their "news" division? I couldn't find any.

You say ALL news agencies make mistakes, as BBC did, ..so where are the Fox News "news division" retractions?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2006, 12:48:46 am by 4pool »
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Offline SMD

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #188 on: October 14, 2006, 01:40:26 am »
Hahahahahahahaha.


*deep breath*



Hahahahahahahaha-oh, you're serious.


This is exactly why Fox News is the worst of all the news agencies. They completely believe their bullshit and have no problem going down to the level of ad hominem arguments just to push forward an agenda. That's why Murdoch has his "Memo" that cannot be defied, every day. Same as that piece of shit the S*n.
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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #189 on: October 14, 2006, 01:40:56 am »
I apologise to all pieces of shit everywhere for the comparison. Sorry lads.
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Offline Bronx Red

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #190 on: October 14, 2006, 02:19:00 am »
I'd rather live in a country like Denmark or Sweden where the bottom 10% have a decent living and the top 2% aren't taking the piss, controlling the country through lobbyists, corrupt politicians and biased "news" organisations and where there is a decent welfare state funded by a fair tax system. I still cannot believe that my son had to lend his American girlfriend money so she could go to the doctor when he was over there for the most basic services. What kind of country is it that has so much wealth and treats its poor so badly.

And a lot of those poor countries are in a bad way because they have market economics thrust down their throats by the WMF as a condition for any aid they receive. Opening their industry to "foreign" investment to create sweat shops for Wal-Mart instead of sustainable local industries, or cash-crops instead of sustainable farming.





Na i think you would have felt at home in the old USSR   :P

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #191 on: October 14, 2006, 08:23:46 am »


You keep going on about Hannity and O'Reilly. Neither one read the news or present the news stories. Do you spot the difference? Or is your preconcieved bias getting in the way? They are "opinion" shows. You have a problem with their opinions. So what.
It's not their opinion I have a problem with, I have a problem with them lying.

Actually I do have a problem with their opinion, as well as the lying.
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Homer: Well, it's not quite a mop, not quite a puppet, but man... (laughs, then pauses) So, to answer you question, I don't know.

Offline 4pool

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #192 on: October 14, 2006, 07:17:12 pm »
I know this may surprise you but I doubt that anyone in the USA only gets their information from Fox News or rely on O'Reilly or Hannity to tell them what to think.

I think that citizens are innudated with commentary. Everyone's personal filter sorts out what is relivant and what isn't.

Which gets back to my point of the Republicans won both houses in a sweep 2 years before Fox News was ever born.


Ole..all one has to do is look at the retractions by on air commentators of the other broadcast networks to know no one is perfect.


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Offline AndyP

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #193 on: October 14, 2006, 07:42:59 pm »
Yes but in keeping with best Murdoch tradition Fox dont apologise for much. Remind you of someting??

Offline America's Sweetheart

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #194 on: October 14, 2006, 08:36:25 pm »
The "average" US family? that's not the same as the per capita GDP as you must know.

No, it's not. And it was two different sets of stats that I ran together. It is, however, apparently a fact that the average US family has something like 9K/year additional disposable income compared to the average European. Of course, there is possibly more inequality here and certainly what I have seen tends to support that, given the near-economic apartheid in the big cities and the huge numbers of very poor illegal immigrants. But still, according to the Wall Street Journal, "the percentage of Americans living below the poverty line has dropped to 12% from 22% since 1959. In 1999, 25% of American households were considered "low income," meaning they had an annual income of less than $25,000. If Sweden--the very model of a modern welfare state--were judged by the same standard, about 40% of its households would be considered low-income."

But the whole point of me running to Google to find these stats wasn't to boost America but to rebut a claim that American education sucked, which led to poor wages and blind nationalist/religiousness (if that's a word).  Having been educated in the UK, and being now a student in the US, with a child who will starting school herself in a few years, I can tell anyone who cares that the average Texan, with all the stipulations acknowledged, will receive a higher standard of education than the average Brit. Certainly, I will be more than happy to send my daughter to our local elementary school rather than move back to Freshfield. And while Texas is supposed to be one of the lesser states for education, Freshfield Primary has a pretty good rep.

Quote
But hey, like you say, why should I worry if the US population are like turkeys voting for Christmas (or Thanksgiving).

Which is, of course, the point. I'm so tired of Europeans taking easy pot shots at some of the dumb stuff in the US without acknowledging all the good and without ever considering their own faults: From Blair to the BNP in the UK, the abortion laws in Ireland, the institutionalised racism in both France and Germany et cetera et cetera. In my very fucking far from humble opinion, it has much more to do with snobbery, elitism, and quasi-racism as it does with politics

Offline America's Sweetheart

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #195 on: October 14, 2006, 08:38:00 pm »
I didn't take offence to it, actually had a little chuckle at it.



Then at least you didn't miss the point.

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #196 on: October 15, 2006, 12:58:10 am »
My numbers are made up and I, like any good economist, am making assuptions.  Just pointing out that this statstic isn't really relavent to much of anything, except to those that have class/wage envy and are more worried about others than themselves.

Maybe not relevant to you, but economic inequality is directly proportional to Crime rates, levels of drug abuse and depression. So to dismiss it so peremptorily as envy is, at best, foolish and short-sighted.
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Offline xavidub

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #197 on: October 15, 2006, 01:18:20 am »
... the abortion laws in Ireland,

Roe V. wade will be overturned within 10 years and abortion will be no longer available in the states.

Americas state school system is acknowledged as awful. Obviously some schools are great but overall the standard is very poor. However American Universities are the best in the world and produce more high-quality research than anywhere else.  And the next time some despot decides to perpetrate genocide it will more likely than not be US troops that risk their lives to stop it. The US people are great in my opinion, but their political system, in allowing them so much freedom, also allows powerful interests to organise the society in a way which is quite oppressive.

The argument about Sweden is lamentable. If you subtract what the 'average' American family has to set aside to provide for healthcare and retirement and schooling the Swedish family will be considerably better off.
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Offline Eric

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #198 on: October 15, 2006, 01:50:27 am »
Eric..
How many prisons were built in the USA last year or this?
Who knows how many were built.  I said there are tons of tax dollars made on building prisons, not to mention sustaining them. 

"In 2001, federal, state and local governments spent an estimated $49 billion on corrections.
The crime control portion of the police and judicial budgets is an estimated $51 billion. Private security costs $104 billion.  Combine the prisoners and the crime-fighters and you have 4% of the U.S. workforce consumed by this industry."

http://209.85.129.104/custom?q=cache:RA9K95kbajkJ:www.prisonpolicy.org/articles/factsaboutcrime.pdf+costs+site:prisonpolicy.org&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

And this is for only about 1.5 million inmates in 2001.

Most communities don't want a prison near them. Zoning for one is a nightmare..

But surely you have some information in order to make a statement like that..
Here is the list of US prisons.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_prisons

So there are tons of people living next to prisons, but surely you had some information in order to make a statement like that...



Offline 4pool

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Re: Fox News - still lying to the planet.
« Reply #199 on: October 15, 2006, 04:15:48 pm »
Roe V. wade will be overturned within 10 years and abortion will be no longer available in the states.

And you know this for sure? Who told you?

Should Roe v Wade be overturned..it means little. Abortion is not part of the Constitution and that is why it may be overturned. The Federal government doesn't give the "right" to abortions.

But if it is overturned, it goes back to a States Rights issue. And States would approve their own legislation for abortions, as they did before Roe v Wade. Some States had passed their own legislation. Others were waiting for the Supreme Court to rule. This would mean there would be differences from State to State is all.
 
However, i'll wager 1,000 quid Roe v Wade won't be overturned in 10 years or less. You up for it? You've got 10 years to save the money..:P


Americas state school system is acknowledged as awful. Obviously some schools are great but overall the standard is very poor. However American Universities are the best in the world and produce more high-quality research than anywhere else.  And the next time some despot decides to perpetrate genocide it will more likely than not be US troops that risk their lives to stop it. The US people are great in my opinion, but their political system, in allowing them so much freedom, also allows powerful interests to organise the society in a way which is quite oppressive.

Question for you. If American universities are the best and Americans make up the major portion of students going to American Universities----how is it American "awful" State Schools are so bad as that is where the kids come from to get into University? You got me there..

Do you know if you go to public school in Texas and maintain a certain grade average--you are guaranteed a place at a University in the State.


T he argument about Sweden is lamentable. If you subtract what the 'average' American family has to set aside to provide for healthcare and retirement and schooling the Swedish family will be considerably better off.

You keep bringing this up as though you're so sure of yourself. Every Company I have ever worked for pays for health care. Yes there is a deductable ( $500 annually currently where I work. It was $30 per month for the entire family at a Company I used to work for..so you could take your kid to the doctor 10 times a month--you're only out $30.)

Employers generally have multiple option for employees to choose for their health care. Especially the larger ones.

As to retirment. Everyone who works gets a deduction for Social Security paid to the government for when you retire. It's the Law. So everyone who works will get "something" from the US Government as a monthly allotment.
Now whether or not you think you can live "comfortably" on that amount is up to you. You get a mailing from the government that says based on your contributions--if you retire at age 65 you will recieve XXXXXX per month. So their should be no surprises as to what the government will pay you.

This was done because most people wouldnt save for their own retirement. Now some people whigne because it's not enough. The alternative is for the government to take more and more out when you are younger and have a family just so YOU will have more when you retire. Socialism at its finest.


Then their are individual retirement options. Either IRA's or 401K's which employers can take up to 15% out of your check, based on what you tell them to,  for your own individual retirement accounts. Which if you leave the employer is still yours to take with you. On top of that, some employers will match your contributions ( up to a certain amount). For instance a Company might match the first 5%. So if you put in 5% and the employer matches with 5%---your getting 10 % put into your account.

Now I can't comment on Sweden. But I can at least set the record straight that health care and retirement are much differerent than what you seemingly believe.





« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 04:17:32 pm by 4pool »
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