Author Topic: Anthony Le Tallec  (Read 125044 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2003, 05:40:10 pm »
Isn't this conversation a little premature? Yes, he did play well against Crewe and score against Hong Kong Select but they're hardly world class opposition.  I think the kid is going to require more time to settle, as Ged has suggested.  Until I see him play well against Premiership opponents, I wont be convinced that he's ready.  


*Maybe* he's not ready, but the point is not that he played well, it's that he played better than our 'best' players, putting it more in context.

The opposition isn't the greatest, but they will have been fit (Crewe's season starts before ours), and would have been determined to get one over on us. How often do we leather teams in pre-season friendlies? Hardly ever.

Class is class - he has been the best player in his age group in the world for some time, by all accounts. And we'll never know if he's ready for the Premiership or not if we don't at least give him the chance to prove himself.

Offline Tony19:6

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #81 on: July 29, 2003, 08:14:57 pm »

Owen is still only 23, so it is pretty hard to assess how it has effected his long-term career.


Hmmm...
European Footballer of the year
22 goals in 50 internationals
Youngest English international goalscorer plus 2 World Cup finals ...
Liverpool top scorer for how many seasons

I could go on but my point is that if Cheyrou, Smicer, Diouf etc etc were playing consistently well enough then Le Tallec would probably be benched anyhow.

However if he is up to the job and theres only one way to find out. From eye witness reports / highlights / webcasts he appears old enough, good enough and mature enough to make a big impact this season...but thats down to GH.. I just hope he's not 'underused'

...finally if Owen does suffer from burn out in a few years ... better he does that at Real Madrid when LFC have had the best years out of him and £50m in their @rse pockets  ;)

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Offline Stanfo

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2003, 11:42:11 pm »
Burnout my arse, they are professional sportsmen who play twice a week as they have done for over 100 years. Yes the game is quicker but training and physio techniques have also moved with the times, along with kit, boots, balls and a far less physical game. You only hear these excuses from the more trendy coaches, who tend to manage less successful teams.

Offline Andy

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2003, 09:06:22 am »
Hmmm...
European Footballer of the year
22 goals in 50 internationals
Youngest English international goalscorer plus 2 World Cup finals ...
Liverpool top scorer for how many seasons

I could go on but my point is that if Cheyrou, Smicer, Diouf etc etc were playing consistently well enough then Le Tallec would probably be benched anyhow.

...and my point is that we won't know if Owen will suffer at the end of his career until he is older.  ::)

i personally think he was brought through at the right time - he was ready, and world class within a season of playing for us. i think le tallec will make some subs appearances this season, and within 2 seasons it will be hard to leave him out of the side.

Offline Life

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2003, 10:09:57 am »
...finally if Owen does suffer from burn out in a few years ... better he does that at Real Madrid when LFC have had the best years out of him and £50m in their @rse pockets  ;)

There's some logic in this - harsh though it seems.  Screw 'em while they're young and sell them when they're jaded at 26.  It's sad to see, but we got a bloody good deal flogging Fowler - much though it pained me at the time.  Would you prefer them 3 years "before they're ready" from 17-20, if that meant they wouldn't be worth having past 30.  You could be getting the better part of the deal - although you'd be running the risk of cutting the poor bugger's career short.
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Offline Armin

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2003, 10:58:30 am »
There's some logic in this - harsh though it seems.  Screw 'em while they're young and sell them when they're jaded at 26.  It's sad to see, but we got a bloody good deal flogging Fowler - much though it pained me at the time.  Would you prefer them 3 years "before they're ready" from 17-20, if that meant they wouldn't be worth having past 30.  You could be getting the better part of the deal - although you'd be running the risk of cutting the poor bugger's career short.

 ::) Jeez Life, I'm glad you're not my boss ;)

The problem with this kind of approach (besides the morally dubious nature) is that it would only work in the short term.  LFC would gain the reputation of being the club which flogged its talent to the detriment of their long term career.  Agents (who have an interest in the career length of their client) would steer the new generation away from our club and we would be the losers.  Better to have a reputation for caring for your employees - if for no other reason than it being good business practice.
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Offline Jason_King

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2003, 11:04:27 am »
Game has changed, you dont get away with cleaning people out, thigh high(a la Souey  ;)) so I dont think playing Le Tallec everynow and again will do him any harm.

If he is playing well enough he should be getting a shirt, if not he plays in reserves- simple!

Be nice to have some creativity on the bench as we have said for many a moon we dont have any matchwinners in our subs. Plus when we go behind we don't often come back to win do we?
 :-\

If he is performing he should be ahead of Smicer/Cheyrou. Smicer has never performed consistently, injuries or not and CHeyrou(although I think he will come good) hasn't shone yet.
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Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2003, 11:31:34 am »
Anthony Le Talent & Florent Simply-Perfect

Are we building them up for a big fall ?

I dont think I say this often, but in Ged I trust.
He knows them better than most.
I just hope both get an opportunity as Subs early this season.
Le Talent looks scary, I think he will terrify opposition.
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Offline Olly

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #88 on: July 31, 2003, 09:07:35 am »
Great post Chris. Thumbs up!
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Offline Walton_Gary

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #89 on: August 1, 2003, 02:24:05 pm »
I think after the didi injury that we'll see alot more of Le Tallac this season and fromn what i gather, rightly so!

I couldnt see the point putting him in the reserves anyway, i mean isnt that why we left him in France?

If thats the case that we put him in the reserves then shouldnt we have just bought him last year and then done it!

If he's better that those mentioned smicer etc then play him!

Burn out my arse!

Offline Andy

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #90 on: August 1, 2003, 03:27:04 pm »
I think after the didi injury that we'll see alot more of Le Tallac this season and fromn what i gather, rightly so!

 ??? le tallec isn't a direct replacement??

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Offline Walton_Gary

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #91 on: August 1, 2003, 05:03:05 pm »
??? le tallec isn't a direct replacement??

Yes i am aware of that, if he was Houllier would of just bought him because of the injury which he never ::) if you read what i wrote then you would realise i was saying i looks like Le Tallec will get more games because of the injury!

As for the fart burn out, i would know i dont play rugby ;)

Offline Gnurglan

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #92 on: August 2, 2003, 01:27:05 am »
Yes, I agree with GH. We should put ALT and FSP in the Reserves for a year. They are not the ones to win us the PL. I mean, they are competing with Owen, Baros, Heskey, Diouf and also Mellor, plus Cheyrou, Smicer, Diouf and Kewell. We can't expect either of the French kids to perform better than those players. Not in their first year in the PL. Not at such a young age. Not in a team which is young as it is.

If they are superb in the Reserves, try them in the 1st team. But we should not expect it. Think Cheyrou. He was a star at Lille. Think Diouf, he was a star in the World Cup. If they struggled during their first year, how much can we expect from these kids?

Don't build them up just yet. Give them time and they will come good. :)

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Offline Walton_Gary

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Re:Anthony Le-Tallec, what to do for the best?
« Reply #93 on: August 2, 2003, 11:48:13 am »
I would much rather see two young kids with hunger and desire play that some of our players that arent as erm...hungry, for example would you say that heskey, igor or smicer come off the pitch looking like theyve give there all for Liverpool Football Club, if you did id have to disagree!


Offline Colum

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Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2003, 01:27:05 pm »
When will we see him starting in the first team? From what I've read, he seems to be grasping it here pretty quickly. Is he really that good? How does he compare to Cheyrou? Is this just a Zidane wannabe?
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Offline Chris.

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2003, 01:46:00 pm »
Michael Owen esque goal he scored last night. Reminded me of the Goal Owen scored vs the mancs at Anfield a few seasons ago.

Offline Life

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2003, 02:45:38 pm »
I'm sure I'm in a bit of a minority over how quickly Le Tallec should get his chance...but I really think he should be on the subs bench on Sunday.
I think the worst thing you can do with a player is bugger about with momentum.  When they're on a hot streak - and he is - you should play them.  I think you do a lot of psychological damage to a player by dropping them when they're on fire.
And having someone who can change a game on the bench is what subs are all about.
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Offline Colum

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2003, 03:01:50 pm »
So he will have me on the edge of my seat?
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Offline john_mac

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2003, 03:24:26 pm »
I hope something is done to take the pressure of Le Tallec and quickly. Putting him in now, is not on.

Too many people are expecting far too much far too soon. October 29th in the League Cup, that should be his debut, and it should be greeted with patience whatever the result.

His best game of the pre-season was at Crewe and immediately thought  that the reaction of Liverpool fans was one of overkill. Let's give this lad a little bit of time to settle in, he hasn't been anywhere near a Premiership game yet, and I personally hope he does not for  while.

I actually think it may be easier for Sinama to get to the pace of Premier League and that he has settled into the squad more quickly. His pace will worry defenders and I would not be surprised if he were given an opportunity first.

Expect neither near the bench on Sunday.

Dudek
Carra
Riise
Hyppia
Hench
Kewell
Murphy
Biscan
Smicer
Owen
Heskey

Kirkland
Diouf
Diaou
Baros
Traore
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Offline adamski

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2003, 03:29:26 pm »
Doesn't look like Smicer will start due to injury so I'd go with your team with Diouf replacing Smicer.

Le Tallec should not feature against Chelsea.  Too much of a big game to debut at.  He probably hasn't even seen a live Premiership game yet!  
« Last Edit: August 13, 2003, 03:30:56 pm by adamski »

Offline Life

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #100 on: August 13, 2003, 03:47:52 pm »
At the risk of sounding like a slightly deranged  80 year old drunk...
If he's good enough, he's old enough.  Subs bench - close to the action, part of the team, good experience.  I think Cheyrou should be on the bench as well - and go on first if we need to chase the game.
"Why should they be used in any other way? It wouldn'a be fair for one thing. Natural ability is far too precious tae be messed about wi'."

Offline john_mac

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #101 on: August 13, 2003, 03:49:25 pm »
I'm not privvy to smicer's fitness.

Prior to last night I would have been convinced that Diouf would have played but his appearance at Blackpool makes me think that it is probably not the case. I think if he were to be plaing Sunday there were plenty of other options for right mid that would have been tried- Welsh/ Partridge/ Finnan/ Ostemeboor.

The team for Sunday will play behind closed doors 2morra and I find it difficult to believe that any one last nights stating 11 will be in it.

If Ged follows last seasons pattern, none of teh players who took part at Chester were in the starting 11 for teh first game.

Of course, injuries may change this.
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Offline adamski

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #102 on: August 13, 2003, 03:54:12 pm »
There's an article on .tv saying it's touch and go if he'll be ready for Sunday.
I'm hoping he will be but he says his knee is still swollen.

Offline Adeemo

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #103 on: August 13, 2003, 06:09:36 pm »
Personally I think Le Tallec is ideal for the bench, I can't see there being too much pressure on him, at least nothing he can't handle. He seems to have that extra spark that could be descisive when coming off the bench. You've also got to take into account that he played in the French top division all last season, so it's not like he's never played against top quality opposition, even though the PL is slightly different.
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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2003, 06:10:17 pm »
Life, there is some logic in what you say and I'd love to see him involved on Sunday, but it could go the other way too. He could be put on the bench and be given 15-20 mins in a few of the games, struggle and take a mental knock because of it. I guess it could go either way and depends on the players own ability and mental strength?

The fact is we don't know if he's ready or not, but Ged has 5 years experience of managing in the PL, he knows what is required and what a player of Le Tallecs ability is likely to received in terms of treatment by opposition players. Based on that I'd feel comfortable if he made the decision that Le Tallec may not be ready and decides to keep him tucked away for a bit.

However, if he does decide to put him on the bench then thats a big statement Houllier is making, so he'd need to weigh up the cons associated with that. I.e. the increased expectancy of fans such as what occured with Cheyrou.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2003, 06:11:38 pm by Gareth »

Offline Hugh

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #105 on: August 13, 2003, 06:25:26 pm »
Just seen highlights of the Fleetwood game, Le Tallec's goal was absolute class, a real craftsman's finish.

Personally I think the kid should be on the bench for Sunday, he'd be such a weapon to have if things aren't going right.

My team for Sunday:
Dudek

Carra
Hyypia
Henchoz
Riise

Smicer/Diouf (Depends on Vladi's fitness)
Murphy
Biscan
Kewell

Heskey
Owen

Subs: Kirkland, Traore, Diao, Le Tallec, Baros.

Offline Stevo

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2003, 06:30:25 pm »
I'm with John on this. Don't want to see too much pressure on him. Let him in gently.

We've seen what's happened with Rooney, and this year things will be even harder for him. There's no rush to play Le Tallec, and i don't think we should be building him up.

The more we build him up, the bigger the crash will be when he comes back down.

If he does well for the Reserves then he'll get his chance.


Offline Colum

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #107 on: August 13, 2003, 06:57:18 pm »
Did you guys say the same thing with Michael Owen?

Not to generalise, obviously they are two different players. I think if he is as talented as what is being mooted about, then I think he should play. Is he better than Cheyrou at this stage? etc - how far up the pecking order is he?
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Offline Spartacus.

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2003, 06:59:55 pm »
Ged is gonna be criticised what ever decision he makes, I can just hear the muppets now having ago for not including him in the squad for Chel$ea and then the other muppets who if he is included but doesn’t score 4 and dominate the show will criticise him for playing him.

It’s ok saying he doesn’t need the pressure but he’s under that pressure already from certain fans and Ged himself doesn’t help the matter with his comparisons to other great players I wish he would stop that.  Personally although we shouldn’t be getting carried away with him I would like to see him in the squad pretty soon.

I appreciate he is only 18 but some players do brake through at that age when they are that good.  I don’t think he should be held back because of that, if he was to play in the reserves for a few months and be playing great football in sparkling form then we should have him in the squad.
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Offline Stevo

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2003, 07:09:40 pm »
Did you guys say the same thing with Michael Owen?

Yes and no. Owen came in because at the time Robbie was suspended and then he got injured. When Riedle signed Evans wanted a Fowler/Riedle partnership.

Its hard to compare the two, because we have a much bigger squad now. I think playing Owen as much as we did early on has in a way harmed his progress, he is still young and has played quite an incredible number of games for us. Earlier on in his career people were worried about him becoming worn out.

I think with Le Tallec we dont need to play him, and we can develop and prepare him until he his really ready.

I'm not saying Owen was thrown into the team because we were desperate, he would have got his chance in time anyway, at least now with Le Tallec and Sinama we can nuture them a bit more gently and keep them out of the spotlight

Offline Spartacus.

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #110 on: August 13, 2003, 07:23:17 pm »
I think with Le Tallec we dont need to play him, and we can develop and prepare him until he his really ready.

Thats gonna be debatable when we see what our performances are like early on  :wave
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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #111 on: August 13, 2003, 07:25:45 pm »
I've never been one to subscribe to the early pressure that Jon_Mac alluded to above,  although this is not a critisicm of what Jon has said. There is definately a point regarding not piling on pressure, but from what I've heard, he's very talented, and very confident. If I was his age, with his talent, and with a Liverpool shirt with my name on it hanging in the dressing room... I'd be GAGGING to get out there.

I'd love to see him on the bench... who's giving him pressure? Are the fans? It's his honeymoon period... and it's how we deal with that bit if it goes tits up which is important. I don't listen to anyone who says Cheyrou is crap, he just didn't spark from the off, but he will, and it's up to us to ensure he knows that (plus everyone at the club of course.)

I don't think that Ged should feel afraid about bunging him in there if somebody of Le Tallacs skills are needed.

I reckon jon_mac's team sheet will be 100% correct... maybe le tallac for Djimi tho? Biscan moving back?

anyway... no pressure on Le Tallec, and lets get behind the lot of them come Sunday.. ALLEZ!

Offline Brick Tamland

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #112 on: August 13, 2003, 11:46:03 pm »
I actually think it may be easier for Sinama to get to the pace of Premier League and that he has settled into the squad more quickly. His pace will worry defenders and I would not be surprised if he were given an opportunity first.

I think that is spot on, I feel that F S-P has a much greater chance of being on the bench than Le Tallec. Due to the above mentioned reasons (mainly his pace). Pace can be a threat to anyone and I think Florent proved this in glimpse against arguably our best oposition in pre-season - Valencia.
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Offline Gus 1855

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #113 on: August 14, 2003, 12:04:14 am »
There is an arguement for every conceivable scenario with Le Tallec, and whichever Ged chooses would be justified and open to srutiny.

Whether he doesn't appear at all, appears on the bench, or starts people will be critical. On this one i think Ged decision will be the right one. He knows best and knows more about the situation than all of us put together.

If i was in Ged's shoes i would look at the fact that:

He has performed superbly against the weaker teams, and seemed to struggle with the top class opposition.

So i would have though that the best plan would be to put him on the bench for a game where we are likely to have the luxury of bringing him on when we 2 or 3 goals to the good. The pressures off, and he can just do what he does best. I think the same applies to Florent.

Chelsea is too early my head says, my heart says let him at 'em!
It looks to me as if we have signed another 'average' player. I'll hold back my complete opinion until I see the lad play

Offline Life

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #114 on: August 14, 2003, 09:38:29 am »
I don't think anyone would blame Ged for holding him back - it would seem prudent and sensible.  Equally, I don't think anyone would blame him for putting him on the subs bench and maybe giving him a go.

My reasons for putting him in are more psychological (he's on a roll, he's young and fearless and seems primed to get his chance) - the reasons for keeping him out seem to be physical (knacker him out too young).

Both are sound really...

I remember something someone said once (it was a prodigy type player like Whiteside I think - after Espana 82) - when you're young, you fear nothing and nothing dents your confidence or saps your energy.

I say play him, let him know there's no pressure and enjoy the ride.
"Why should they be used in any other way? It wouldn'a be fair for one thing. Natural ability is far too precious tae be messed about wi'."

Offline john_mac

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #115 on: August 14, 2003, 10:14:55 am »
People said the same thing about Fowler who received far too much pressure and played far too often at a tender age. The result that instead of Liverpool having the best player in the country Man City have a player who is a shadow of what he should be.

We do not know the long term effects of playing Owen and Gerrard at such a high level at such a young age, but both have certainly suffered enough injury problems.

Interesting that you should mention Norman Whiteside who played for United and Northern Ireland at such a young age. He was frced to retire through persistant injury problems at what age? 26 perhaps?

Another who has recently been played very young was Vignal, who now looks a shadow of the player who broke into the squad.

Contrast this to Whelan and Rush who made their debuts at 20 and 21 yet managed to stay around for many years.

It's not a case of black and whiote their will obviously be differences Giggs for example, played very young.

But personally I think it is far too risky and shortsighted a thing to do. I would give him time to assimilate his game and life to England before even considering playing him.
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Offline john_mac

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #116 on: August 14, 2003, 10:16:21 am »
let him know there's no pressure and enjoy the ride.

No pressure? My arse

You're lucky if the Kop give you five minutes these days before getting on your back. Never mind a coupleof seasons to grow up.
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Offline Life

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #117 on: August 14, 2003, 10:54:26 am »
All true.  Going off a quote by Rush (ironically) today, I don't think they're going to be anywhere near the first team:

http://www.teamtalk.com/teamtalk/News/Story_Page/0,7760,661238,00.html

Rush said: "When I joined Liverpool I spent more than a year in the reserves. It really helped me prepare for life in the first team.

"Le Tallec and Pongolle will benefit from training with the first team and will learn about the English style of play in the reserves, where there will be less pressure on them.

"They are obviously prepared to listen to their manager and learn. If they perform well in training and with the reserves, they should get their chance of first team football next season."
"Why should they be used in any other way? It wouldn'a be fair for one thing. Natural ability is far too precious tae be messed about wi'."

Offline Olly

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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #118 on: August 14, 2003, 11:16:25 am »
I don't think a few months in the reserves will do them any harm at all. If they are both still playing superbly for the reserves then gradually bring them in. But GH will no doubt do the right thing by them.

Plus, if we can keep them in the reserves for a while, with any luck we'll bring home 2 titles this year!!  :P
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Re:Just how good is Le Tallec?
« Reply #119 on: August 14, 2003, 11:20:18 am »
some League Cup appearances  hopefully