Topic: The unravelling. A team, manager and fans shafted by transfer incompetence

[Chakan]

According to who?

Think it was an echo article at the time.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-fc-admit-defeat-pursuit-7386726

Both clubs were willing to match Barcelona’s valuation of around £30million so it came down to the player’s preference.

[Latenight Surfer]

Nothing wrong with a gamble mate. In context.

However, we sold the house and have joined a high stakes poker game and gone all in on a pair of 6's.

Markovic, Manquillo, Moreno to a certain amount, and Origi are all gambles.

That's a lot of money on Gambles, without securing a player to 'replacing' the one person that was crucial to last season.

It is in many cases too early to call, mind you.  Lallana hasn't suddenly gone from Southampton captain and tricky forward to shitty winger, Lovren hasn't gone from centrepin to the Saints defence, to a player who can't get his positioning right.  There are lots of other sides who are integrating players into the team, and whilst the gaps are present in the LFC squad, those gaps existed to a greater extent last year and yet Rodgers and the side managed to raise their game.

Perhaps it's as simple as after coming so close to winning the league, it is really hard too find that motivation with 5-6 new faces in the XI to keep out and fight and press every minute, from the first game of the season.  It's relatively easy to raise your game for the big games, CL quarters, etc... but for the week-in-week-out matches... many teams still have players looking very flat at the moment.

This is more or less what I wanted to say about our "gambles".

Now adding Markovic', Manquillo and Moreno to the discussion I would say that:


Markovic':

He is the kind of investment that a club regularly makes on an emerging talent and it's just that THIS has coincided with the transition period so we should not be looking at it from the "what does he bring to the squad?" angle.

Manquillo:

A player who was bought in on loan (for two years) to add depth to the squad. This should hardly be a moot point as we were looking for depth in that position but not necessarily looking for a world-beater...

.. Moreno

This is a player who is very identical to what Jordi Alba is in terms of his intensity and very young and full of potential and definitely has all the ingredients to be a world-class talent. Considering our options in the market who else did we miss who could have been better than him defensively, because let's face it there are two kinds of full-backs in the market and the one who has a balance is a rare thing and is too costly and even if he had balance would have been relatively unknown and the same questions would be arising again (from you).

Moreno is not a "softy" to be honest he has game in him from every angle and he is learning, just like Flanagan and they will be our future if everything goes by order.


Origi

The club demanded that he be allowed to play on loan at Lille, what can we do about it? And if your question is we could have invested it on someone else who was willing to come to this club, my answer is... Balotelli. I mean how many strikers are we talking per team here?

[Mutton Geoff]

I understand that, but we want to make ourselves front runners in the deal throw some money on top to sweeten the pot. Don't just do what the other guys did.

the only way he came here was if we moved the ground to London and Wenger obviously made him seem wanted also for some money isnt the only criteria even some Footballers.

I also think if Suarez would have done a Keegan and said look i will give you another season then i am off, we might have looked at Sanchez et al sooner, but as far as i was aware he was staying here when he went to the World Cup.

[Chakan]

the only way he came here was if we moved the ground to London and Wenger obviously made him seem wanted also for some money isnt the only criteria even some Footballers.

I also think if Suarez would have done a Keegan and said look i will give you another season then i am off, we might have looked at Sanchez et al sooner, but as far as i was aware he was staying here when he went to the World Cup.

I know that but we didn't even try, that's my point. We gave him a straight up option of choosing between us and Arsenal.

The minute Barca came knocking Suarez was off, there was 0 we could do about it.

[Latenight Surfer]

the only way he came here was if we moved the ground to London and Wenger obviously made him seem wanted also for some money isnt the only criteria even some Footballers.

Well at least we have an office in London... for starters. 

[CraigDS]

Think it was an echo article at the time.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-fc-admit-defeat-pursuit-7386726

Matching the valuation is one thing, for all we know we did beat Arsenal's pay offer.

Sometimes it doesn't matter if you're earning £150k a week or £185k a week, it's all plenty enough to live off for the rest of your life and it comes down to where you want to be/live - which according to pretty much most sources was the reason he picked London Arsenal.

[Motty]

Said it when we were first linked that Balotelli wasn't the type of player we needed ,after we signed him I did convince myself otherwise and actually got excited about him being at the club although I Sid think it was important to add another Remy type player to replace Borini which obviously didn't happen. I think in a way my initial fear has proved right but part of me still thinks if we had Sturridge or that extra Remy type player we might be talking about Balotelli in a different light because being the main striker definitely doesn't suit him in our team.

Maybe we had another striker lined up after signing Mario and Borini not going fucked it all up (not blaming him) and we've paid the price for it ?

[The Flying Pig]

If we didn't question what goes on at our club, would we have been as instrumental in driving out Hicks and Gillett?

[Hij]

If we didn't question what goes on at our club, would we have been as instrumental in driving out Hicks and Gillett?

Of course not, but that was extreme and particular circumstances, not a bad run of form by players and manager.

[redmark]

Moreno has looked half decent, but cant say he has been better than Flanno, Not too convinced by Manquillo. Lovren was not better than what we had and has shown that so far too. Lallana is good for the squad, but no better than Courinho or Sterling. Can is not better than what we have currently.

im not saying that they dont add to the squad.  Markovic is in no way an average cost purchase.

Just on Markovic, my point wasn't that he was 'average cost', but that if he becomes the top-class player we're clearly hoping for when buying a 20-year old for £20m, he would have been bought for the sort of money we've paid for Lallana, or Downing before that; i.e. the going rate for any half decent proven attacking player. The going rate for the sort of player we're hoping Markovic will become is out of our financial league, currently.

[redmark]

the only way he came here was if we moved the ground to London and Wenger obviously made him seem wanted also for some money isnt the only criteria even some Footballers.

I also think if Suarez would have done a Keegan and said look i will give you another season then i am off, we might have looked at Sanchez et al sooner, but as far as i was aware he was staying here when he went to the World Cup.

I'm not even sure it was London that swayed Sanchez. He didn't want to come here to be seen as a direct swap/replacement for Suarez, I think, which was an almost guaranteed disappointment.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I'm not even sure it was London that swayed Sanchez. He didn't want to come here to be seen as a direct swap/replacement for Suarez, I think, which was an almost guaranteed disappointment.

Makes him sound like a bottler that. He'd rather go hang out with the fancy dan lightweights like him at Arsenal than run the risk of being loved here. 

[4pool]

Maybe I missed it in the Op but this isn't a transfer thread. 

All that talk has been done in other threads.

[Circa1892]

I agree that criticism should be more openly welcomed (when it's constructive).

It's a tad disingenious to attack the clubs approach to new forwards though. Lambert was bought as a plan B (for Mourinho style park the bus games), and Balotelli was obviously nowhere near first choice - we wanted Sanchez and were going to get Remy - both of whom would have fitted our system perfectly. Neither of those came off, and we had the straight choice of Balotelli or nothing.

Where the problem is this season is just that, while we have a bigger squad of decent players, we still have a lot of weakness. Our defence needs to gel, we have no real genuine defensive midfielder, and our attack is centered around Sturridge.

It's also fair to say we've taken a step back while Chelsea have taken a sprint forward. We're not as good as we were last year, and that can't fail to be a concern for everyone.

[walshys_mullet]

...whether it be done rationally, irrationally, quietly or loudly?

It's becoming increasingly apparent to me that some of RAWK's moderators and a swathe of both long standing and new posters seem to carry the notion that any overt criticism of the club, manager, management, owners, players etc etc is taboo; that those doing the complaining are displaying some sort of lack of loyalty; that sections of the media may latch onto it and...well... say nasty things about our club based upon what they read.   

Where the hell did this ridiculous notion come from?

From what I've witnessed over countless decades of matchgoing, pub going etc football supporters whether Liverpool, Everton or Marine have always ranked amongst the most critical breed of human kind I've ever come across ranging from those with completely sound and considered misgivings to ranting lunatics with scarcely an ounce of justification or logic in their barmy moronic bayings.

Yet from whichever end of the spectrum they might emanate, the pearls of wisdom/utter shite they pour out are and always have been a hugely vital part of what the game is about. Without such impassioned outpourings the game would not be the fantastic emotional cauldron it demands to be; those delivering the diatribes meanwhile whether completely sane and rational or loopy and misguided might as well all be watching tiddlywinks.

So, if anyone can tell me where the desire for such an embargo on ranting and raving about anything to do with our club has come from and why those doing it are regarded by those who don’t rant and rave as lesser fans – and vice versa – I'd be extremely grateful - and perhaps educated in ways beyond my current ken. [not King Ken btw  ]

Anyroad, now to the main issue related to what I can only term this sort of extreme sensitivity. 

The latest round of it was in connection with the loudly aired frustrations of several posters – with myself featured prominently – lambasting the club management for their pivotal role in our current indifferent form. This was by virtue of the club’s failure to expedite a transfer policy in the summer that met or went towards meeting the core need of the club to maintain as near as possible the form of the preceding season. 

The preceding season had seen the team’s success largely stemming from a pacy and mobile attacking approach spearheaded by two strikers who were not only ideally suited to such an approach but constituted the principal driving forces behind it. With the leading striker of the two leaving the club and the remaining striker a player highly prone to muscle injury and as such unable to be relied upon for a full season’s participation, it became incumbent upon the club management to ensure attacking outlets were acquired in the summer that could at least begin to replicate the performances of the attacking outlets.

The club duly signed Rickie Lambert and Mario Balotelli.

Now I have never been one to diss individual players out of hand. I make my judgements as to a player’s abilities and I would guess I’ve been wrong as often as I’ve been right concerning the abilities of such players. I do not diss them, however, whether at the match or on a public forum. So I have not and will not diss either of the two strikers we signed. It’s too early days in any case and they may or may not still have a part to play in the future of this club in roles they are suited to playing.

However, what I will say is that if the club had wanted to sign two strikers representing precisely the type of attacking outlet that we were not looking for to replicate the preceding season’s style of attacking play then the club would have plumped for Rickie Lambert and Mario Balotelli.

And, just to reinforce that notion, most certainly had the club genuinely been looking for players that were   suited to replicating the fast mobile attacking strategy Ricky and Mario would have come pretty low down on the target list or not made such a list at all.

As you might have gathered by now the piece I’ve compiled is a bit of a wolf in sheep’s clothing. The moderators do not want a thread that appears to slag off the club management. I can understand that, given the sensitivity that does exist regarding such matters. Which is why I’ve combined the two themes under the less controversial thread title.

Make no mistake, however, I am fucking raging at the incompetence of the club management with regard to this issue. What they have done/failed to do is fucking deplorable for a footballing institution of our standing, most especially one that during the latter stages of last season looked very much like it was on the cusp of something truly special, something that - with the correct and responsible management strategy and the huge transfer monies from Luis’s departure to the Spanish Inquisitors - had every chance of at the very least maintaining and very possibly improving upon the levels of performance we witnessed last season.

Had players of the sort of style and calibre our system of play demanded been brought in – and I’m not talking mega stars I simply mean talent that equated with our style and needs – and had such players not succeeded in providing/maintaining the team with the level of performance desired then I can assure anybody still reading this outpouring that you would not have heard so much as the slightest fucking peep from me. [that’s possibly an outright lie by the way  ]

However, that sort of sensible management strategy with an eye on the core objective is not the case. The fact is, despite the core objective screaming out at us loudly and clearly, we fucked up badly. Very badly. That core objective needed to be maintaining or if possibly improving the overall team performance levels. Fleshing out the squad to enable us to meet the additional Champions league demands was clearly also a priority but the overwhelming urgency was to ensure Luis’s departure and a potential injury to Daniel Sturridge did not leave us bare and exposed.

Yet it so manifestly has. And I am so pissed off by it. So there you go. That’s the way I feel. A time served fan of countless years and i can scarcely recall such a huge avoidable cock-up at the very heart of our playing strategy in all that time. Sure there’s been mistakes. Shanks made them. Bob made them. Kenny certainly made them. Not, however, over something so glaringly obvious as this.

And I must add before finishing. I do not see Brendan as the main culprit here. As it is I do not know enough about how the club management all hangs together – and I’m not sure anybody else does either given the veils of secrecy that mask the club management – but I would bet a pound to a pinch of shite that Brendan did not wish to embark upon the season with one pacy striker especially one that he more than anybody would have known could be absent at any time with muscle injuries. Also we must not forget the entire aberration, albeit there from the day the window closed, has only manifested itself since Daniel was injured and with a good wind he may be back before too long to provide that ever so vital ingredient of getting beyond the opposition back four. Perhaps in tandem with Mario as we saw at White Hart Lane.

In the meantime do forgive me if I regard raking over the coals of a home draw against a shite Hull City is like playing the fucking fiddle while yer arsehole's on fire. Until the ostriches amongst us admit to the biggest elephant any room has ever housed then as far as I’m concerned any discussion about specific performances that do not commence with the elephant in the room as the base-line is an entire fucking waste of time and space.

Footy? A Game of opinions. Yeah, right

This is a great post mate, and i fully agree.

Trouble with me is that i'm not a great writer, and i tend to explode rather than articulate. On saturday i got shot down for having the cheek to suggest last year was more Suarez doing than Brendans, but either way, if Brendan instigated it and i do believe he did get onto something based around SAS, then what on earth is he doing this year? It doesnt make sense for the reasons you've given.

And to be fair as far as mods, i got banned for about 5 weeks for giving Coutinho a snipe after Villa, and i probably deserve it.

But like you i get into a rage when i watch multi million pound footballers, who cant cross a ball, or take a set piece. Or a manager and staff who cant see we cant take a corner or defend one. Or the club when you look at their plans, and you see them royally cocking up when on the cusp of something brilliant.

But yeah, our transfers - i want to say right now i think we are one of the worst clubs in the last ten years for wasting transfer funds on utter dross. I just don't understand it. yeah you may say im being premature here this season, but footballers should be able to come in and show at least a level of something, some understanding, some spark now and again. As most have pointed out only 1 maybe two have done this. I'm tired of potential when the team cries out for immediacy, i'm sick to the stomach we didn't invest from Suarez and show the league we mean business and that we mean to make more strides forward.

As Timbo says im not sure who is to blame, what this transfer committee even is as it seems to be masked in shadow. All i know is some of these signings better start turning up or our season will be over before its got going, we cant afford to miss fourth especially after working hard last year to get it.

[walshys_mullet]

And the poster who posted it was considered and respectful throughout was he not?

Ha ha NO IM NOT!!!!!!!

[johnsmithlfc]

a] Who could Liverpool get to replace Suarez? 30+ goals, 17 assists, he was effectively like two players. He went for £75 million, cheap at the price and largely because he is a cannibalistic loon. You are talking Messi, Ronaldo territory here, with all the difficlty of attracting that type of player and keeping them for more than two seasons
b] Liverpool tried to get Sanchez and Remy; one said he preferred London, the other failed a medical. balotelli was third choice and last

But this is the point that many have raised before and have concerns about... we brought in a whole new scouting team who were supposed to be the mutts nuts and most of our buys have been Premier League players that even the Tea Lady could have told Rodgers about.

We should be finding the talent, getting players with great a great goal ratio from other leagues and uncovering gems and quality players (Like we have with Can, Manquillo etc)
I think the Transfer Committee is a mystery to most people and it would be interesting to understand exactly how our transfers our scouted, discussed and how and why we arrive at the conclusion and action we take.

As others have said, we all feel a bit bad, the hangover from the season before... but it's also because we've done this, as a club, many times before... we just seemingly fail to get it right after going close.
We needed to bulk up the squad for sure, but we were one or two top quality players away from having a great 1st XI ready to challenge again... and we had the money, the draw (with CL and finishing runners up) and the desire (or so we thought) to finally do it right.
Sure we missed out on Sanchez and Remy *Failed his medical* (but passed one elsewhere) but we should be having a shortlist with more than 2 players on it.

I think we've got great foundations, youth set up being sorted etc, but I think most fans really wanted, expected or believed, even after losing Suarez, that we would continue improving and playing the kind of football we were.

It's early in the season and anything is possible, but it looks so far like quite a missed opportunity.

[redmark]

Makes him sound like a bottler that. He'd rather go hang out with the fancy dan lightweights like him at Arsenal than run the risk of being loved here. 

He wants to be his own man. He'll have seen any club as a step down from Barcelona; swapping for the player who replaced him there would have compounded that (and topping Suarez's personal achievements from last season would have been tough). I've got no hard feelings, I don't think it was really a plausible option for him.

[Motty]

Maybe I missed it in the Op but this isn't a transfer thread. 

All that talk has been done in other threads.

Yeah it has turned into a bit of transfer thread hasn't it.

My answer to Timbo is you should definitely be able to criticize the team/club if things are going wrong ,just in a respectful manner (which Timbo always does) and preferably not straight after a last minute winner for us.

Some things are always justified to criticize or question ,some on the other hand are people just moaning for moaning sakes.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

But like you i get into a rage when i watch multi million pound footballers, who cant cross a ball, or take a set piece. Or a manager and staff who cant see we cant take a corner or defend one. Or the club when you look at their plans, and you see them royally cocking up when on the cusp of something brilliant.

Does my head, i can't fathom it. You don't/can't get to this level without at least doing the basics, surely?

[mart356]

It's frustrating when criticism on here gets threads locked. I mean, this is a forum. This is where criticism is SUPPOSED to be. If you go to a game, then of course you have to support, thats what being a fan is all about. But on here? Nah, venting your opinion on boards like this is a good way to stay sane when it comes to football. Of course there's a way to go about it, 'YEH BUTZ SKRTEL IS SHIT LOL' is not the right way to go about it. As long as your criticism has well articulated points, whats the problem? I mean how many player threads are locked because a MOD decided they didnt like people criticising some players?

EDIT: Also, you ARE allowed to criticise Rodgers. It doesn't mean you want him out, it doesn't mean you don't like him, but he has plenty of weaknesses, just as other coaches do. Criticising Rodger's gets you lambasted on these boards.

[Believe]

Criticism is always fair game as long as it's justified and delivered in the right manner.

Im on the side of the fence that thinks we have played 9 league games, lost our best striker for most of the season when it was absolutely vital he be present to help fill the Suarez void, had multiple new players to integrate, multiple injuries picked up over international break, a missing out on the title hangover to get over and we're only five points off second. And we saw what we can be against Spurs.

I can't think of any circumstances where the absolute knee jerk and over the top criticism of some of our new players is justified - especially given the above. Not in the op, in general for most of the season.

The issue is over expectation and people expecting another 11 game winning run similar to what we did at the end of last season. Give BR time he knows what he's doing and let's see where we are in the leage on January 1st.

[CraigDS]

It's frustrating when criticism on here gets threads locked. I mean, this is a forum. This is where criticism is SUPPOSED to be.

Think you're mixing up 'Discussion Forums' and 'Criticism shit holes'

And for what it's worth, criticism doesn't get threads locked, idiot posters who have a one track mind and post continuously about how shite a player is and happily twists (non) facts into some sort of proof of that is what does it.

[scumbagcollege]

It's frustrating when criticism on here gets threads locked. I mean, this is a forum. This is where criticism is SUPPOSED to be. If you go to a game, then of course you have to support, thats what being a fan is all about. But on here? Nah, venting your opinion on boards like this is a good way to stay sane when it comes to football. Of course there's a way to go about it, 'YEH BUTZ SKRTEL IS SHIT LOL' is not the right way to go about it. As long as your criticism has well articulated points, whats the problem? I mean how many player threads are locked because a MOD decided they didnt like people criticising some players?

EDIT: Also, you ARE allowed to criticise Rodgers. It doesn't mean you want him out, it doesn't mean you don't like him, but he has plenty of weaknesses, just as other coaches do. Criticising Rodger's gets you lambasted on these boards.

You honestly think your posts are well articulated? Mart? Ha ha, talk about deluded!

[robgomm]

People compare to Chelsea's recruitment but they had a strong side last season lacking in goal threat and creativity. Defensively they had the quality especially with Matic added in January. I don't think we were in a position to sign a couple of world class players in summer, we needed to build a squad.

That said, we botched striker recruitment. Sanchez is not a striker, though he would've suited our style of play for sure. Remy you have to trust the club without any more info. But the closing weeks were chaotic, with seemingly a genuine link to another I'll fitting, expensive Falcao and links to Cavani who probably would've suited us a lot better. And a million other links. Ultimately we laughed at the idea of Balotelli and within weeks embraced it. It was reminiscent of Brendan's first summer and in some ways reminiscent of January when we couldn't get a single deal done despite great effort.

While some concern over recruitment is justified then, I do think we pulled together some good squad additions and first team players. Manquillo is fighting for his place, Moreno cementing is and Lallana, you sense, is a better balanced team away from shining. It's not gloomy overall.

[Dougle]

Part of my problem with much of the criticism levelled at the club isn't that it's not warranted (I don't think it is) but it reflects a rather unlikable trend apparent in the modern game, namely a lack of patience and tendency to the histrionic.

9 games into the season, 3 points off 2nd, already I am seeing posters calling for Rodgers head if things don't improve... what the actual fuck???

9 games into the season, 3 points off 2nd and players with a handful of appearances are  being written off... what the actual fuck???

A home draw in a game that the team dominated and had a handful of good chances to win and this constitutes a crisis in some peoples eyes... what the actual fuck???

Dean Saunders criticized Balotelli on the radio for... coming onto the pitch last after halftime "the manager won't like that..." he said... what the actual fuck???

The media have already decided Liverpool are in crisis... "Oooh, what will Brendan do with his rubbish defenders (that have played a few minutes together at most) the troublemaker Balotelli (eh?) the underwhelming Lallana (what 4, 5 starts?)... they have wasted the Suarez money"... what the actual fuck???

Posters complaining after the best team in the world with the best player in the world took a naive, young side with little European experience to task... what the actual fuck???

And after every game in which Liverpool throw in a less stellar performance I read lines like "should be challenging for the top", "anything less than 4th is a failure", "Brendan has to sort it out, not good enough", "why didn't we buy X, Y, Z, they were available?", "Sell X,Y,Z at Christmas, not a Liverpool player"... what the actual fuck???

Fuck me, short memories some people. Since 2009 Liverpool have been a mid-table side. The club was in danger of irrelevancy, the new, new Spurs... instead we have new owners making the club wealthier, redeveloping the squad, a young, exciting, attacking manager (though he is a bit Brentish, yes), loads of quality players in the youths and reserves, loads of quality players in the first team, back competing on a  range of fronts... and struggling in the short term because they have yet to gel, not unexpected and something a number of people had suggested would happen during the summer (myself included). Transition I called it.

Yet, a load of 606ing, Daily Mail reading, half-and-half top wearing, illegal stream watching, pie gargling miseries who have never even been stood outside Anfield wishing they had a ticket, never mind inside to watch a game, feel compelled to post outrage 2 seconds after a game when Liverpool fail to put QPR to the sword, or draw 0-0 at home.

I enjoy thought-provoking critiques, I dive into interesting formation debates, discussion on players weaknesses and how to maximize their potential, what the manager could do to improve the team, tweaks, squad strengthening etc. That is the criticism of which you speak and forms the basis of reasoned, rationale and above all, logical debate.

I do not enjoy pissing and moaning that Liverpool aren't paying Falcao £250,000 a week to recover from his injury, that Balotelli isn't as good as Suarez, that Ronaldo made Skrtel look stupid (Ronaldo makes everyone look stupid) in short I do not enjoy brainless whinging that has zero context, is 100% fickle and bases its rationality on a nostalgic view of the 1980s that never, ever existed in the first place.

Pah, rant over, how's that for meta-criticism?

That, my friend, was fucking great. You just saved me an hour of my life and you did it better than I ever could.

[GBF]

A phrase of Rafa's springs to mind:   " I asked for a sofa and they got me a  lamp."
Lambert and Butler could fall into that category for Rodgers, though for the life of me I can't understand why signed Mario after publicly stating he would never sign him. Timbo, I think mods aren't so much against criticism as  circular and repetitive arguments. This and name calling.
Many a good thread has been derailed by flying so off the point that it could land on Mars.
In the old days, we only needed to bring one or two players to freshen up the squad. ( I hate that term group!) The committee should be shot for not identifying the flaws in the team and replacing Suarez with a player approaching his genius, even if it meant spending nearly all his fee.
Ask yourself did we really need Lallana at 25 million? when we really needed a holding midfielder?

Imagine you are part of that committee and has to convince  a popular player to choose to come and play under Rodgers instead of: Maureen,  Wenger or Van Gaal. To add to the challenge, we have some sort of salary cap.

Not to forget that Rodgers is part of that committee and everyone would like to have Messi to play for them but they will have to make do with what they get.

(this is not a critism of Brendan at all)

[Robinred]

I have no wish to derail the thread - it's a relevant topic in a sea of less relevant stuff.

But I'd like to tease out of the central thrust (the failure of the commitee to replicate, as best they could, the key strengths of our 2012-13 attack) the correlated assumption; namely, that had we retained SAS up top, we'd have continued to dominate opposition teams, we'd have created loads of opportunities, we'd have scored lots of goals and generally, we'd have built exponentially on last season. (I DO believe, as I've said elsewhere, that the loss of SAS is unquestionably THE biggest contributor to our dire form this term).

I've always believed that a crucial indicator of a football club's "trajectory" - the question of whether they are moving in the right direction - is whether one can witness a clear improvement in all aspects of individual (as well as "team") performance. That is a notable feature of Brendan's tenure until this season: Henderson, Flanagan, Sterling and most of all, Sturridge; all seeming to improve continuously and markedly in form, confidence and game intelligence under Brendan and his staff.

This season has been a big let down in this regard. Until two games ago, Coutinho seemed a shadow of his former self; likewise Henderson, likewise Mignolet, likewise even Sterling, in his decision-making. Skrtel is not the goal threat he was last season and seems less dominant. The newcomers are seemingly incapable of reproducing even a semblance of the form that prompted the club to buy them, with the possible exception of the two young Spanish full-backs. When that is set alongside the newcomers at rival clubs hitting the ground running (notably, but not exclusively, at West Ham and Southampton), the frustration is magnified.

Is it merely a blip? Will Brendan re-find his mojo? Will a combination of the "jam tomorrow" training regime and players settling/finding their form see us consolidate and become a serious force approaching Christmas and the new year? I'm less confident than I should be. I sense an uncertainty and lack of direction from the manager and the established players that is antithetical to what I thought we'd established.

Could one, arguably two, players constitute such a profound catharsis for last season's incredible journey?

Conceivably, yes...

[goalrushatgoodison]

Timbo mate, you are spot on about the criticism bit. I posted last season (off topic as usual! ) that I couldn't understand why if you disagreed with a decision of Brendan's, for instance, you endured a barrage of strongly worded tirades questioning your loyalty and at times your intelligence. I also made the point that it's often the more knowledgable posters that engaged in this.

I'm not sure I fully agree, on this occaision, with the subject of the criticism contained in the opening post. The reason I don't fully agree is actually twofold.

Firstly the guys we bought made some sense.  Lambert appeared to be a impulsive, but inherently sensible, buy - a good finisher who could be used sporadically against packed defences at a negligible cost - at least that's how it appeared to me. Ballotelli was not so much a panic buy as an acknowledgement of the situation we found ourselves in. I have never really rated him to be honest and am by no means surprised that he has struggled so far but in the current market, where Borini is valued at 14m and Shane Long 12m, I genuinely believed he was worth a punt at 16m.

In case you think I've missed your point Timbo - i haven't. You are disenchanted not with the signing of Balotelli but with the fact that we made no provision for the loss of Suarez or the likely intermittent absences of Sturridge. We did try however. We tried to get Sanchez and we all but got Remy. I'm sure we also had other targets that for whatever reason fell through. We do need to accept that if we are not going to pay exorbitant wages we will struggle to get top players. You seemed to acknowledge this when you mentioned Sakho and Valencia in another thread as viable options. However it's obvious to me that we needed additional proven quality (if we could get it at a reasonable price) as well as investment in potential even if that proven quality isn't a like for like replacement for what we had.

This brings me to the second reason I don't fully agree with you. I actually think a player like Ballotelli, though probably not Ballotelli, is exactly what we need to compliment the pace that's elsewhere in the side. You can't press for ninety minutes. As a team i think we need, at times, to be more pragmatic, less frantic, more controlled. A player like Balotelli, a confident player with the right attitude of course, would be invaluable IMO, particularly in home games.

 We have to adapt to the loss of Suarez, one of the best players in the world, but we don't have to do it like for like. When we replaced Kevin Keegan we did so with Kenny Dalglish. Essentially, when the mancs replaced Cantona and Hughes they did so with cole and yorke. Ultimately the quality of the players matters more than their suitability to a system. The system can always be tweaked.

[didi shamone]

Whilst the mods do at times get a bit overzealous in deleting posts, it does in fairness get rid of a large amount of bollocks so you have to take the good with the bad. However, it's as good a thread as any to point out that this or any other website will have no bearing on the players or the managers future. Performances, results and like it or not economics dictate the aforementioned. The player threads were becoming a massive bore in fairness, all of them seemed to be dominated by a few die hards stuck in a never ending cycle.  Criticism if it's constructive is important though and the site would be a boring place without it.

So for what my (uneducated) take on our transfer strategy is worth here goes. We lost the best forward in the league, an entirely irreplaceable player and tried to replace his goals and trickery through a combination of Lallana, Laser and Balotelli. Thus far that's been very unsuccessful but I live in the hope that Rodgers can somehow make it work. In his short career that side of his management has been a resounding success in fairness.
The other side of last year is we were pretty awful at the back. It didn't bother me one jot then, as I was far too busy enjoying every bit of our tilt at winning the most unlikely league title of the premiership era. It's worth reminding ourselves of that. This year conceding less goals must have been part of our transfer strategy. We were never going to score 100+ goals again so it seems logical that conceding less was an easier task. Personally I felt we needed to try and secure a defensive midfielder first and foremost, but that seems to have been ignored. The worrying thing is I'm doubtful that we've improved at all in that respect.  I'm not yet convinced that any of our defensive signings improved us yet. Moreno however looks promising.

All said, we played some shite football at the start of last season and came good. Can't be all down to Suarez as Rodgers didn't have him at Swansea and they were fantastic to watch. We had some shite starts under Rafa too and came good, so any of us who are older than our teens will be well aware that form in football can change for the better or worse quickly, and sometimes inexplicably. It's Rodgers first mini-crisis since he's been here. Every manager has had them and the best always find a solution before the rot sets in. Here's hoping we find form soon.

[john_mac]

criticism? one thing

talking absolute bollox, another

[Cid]

Fantastic opening post and I agree with every word.

If I had the slightest clue who was ultimately responsible I'd be calling for their head to be honest.  We're utterly shocking at transfers and if anything we get worse when we have money available.

[john_mac]

Fantastic opening post and I agree with every word.

If I had the slightest clue who was ultimately responsible I'd be calling for their head to be honest.  We're utterly shocking at transfers and if anything we get worse when we have money available.

Just sack the fucken lot, make sure you dont miss the guilty party

[Always_A_Red]

I know that but we didn't even try, that's my point. We gave him a straight up option of choosing between us and Arsenal.

The minute Barca came knocking Suarez was off, there was 0 we could do about it.

That's us all over though isn't it. We had the same issue with Costa, Mkytareddhgh, Salah, Willian etc. We have our price and we stick to it. We rely on our reputation and history to draw in players.

Coming from someone who recruits professionals for a living, what businesses don't realise is that there isn't a queue of people waiting to want to join them, no matter how big or small the company. There will always be another company that offer an employee better conditions, more money, better benefits etc. The best way to secure the best people is to act quickly to reduce the competition and if needs be, offer more money to attract the best people.

Unfortunately for us, we still think that these premadonna millionaire footballers with no alliance to us whatsoever are all chomping at the bit to join us. News flash, they're not. We had a main transfer target who preferred London to Liverpool. Now we could either act quickly and try and tie the deal up before a London club knows he's available (which we didn't do as Arsenal started talking to him before us) or we offer him more money and benefits to come. We did neither. We basically said 'We are LFC, if you want to join us fine, if not, no problem, we'll move on to another target' as there is queue of other superstars lining up to join.

We have another chance to secure a world class player in January when Reus becomes available for £20m. The exact type of player we need with the talent to slot in straight away and make an immediate impact. Will we act quickly or compete financially with the likes of City, Chelsea, UTD, Bayern & PSG? I know what my money will be on.

[killer-heels]

Most of the criticisms have been towards the quality of the signings but Manquillo, Lallana and Moreno have done well, Can has shown good promise and Markovic is a quality player that justifies the level of hype but needs time. Lovren, Lambert and Balotelli have been the disappointments so far

[istvan kozma]

I might be in a minority, but I perfectly understand all the moves our transfer committee made during the summer window. Just because the players haven't started well, I'm not gonna jump of the bandwagon 8 league games in.

[Hij]

I might be in a minority, but I perfectly understand all the moves our transfer committee made during the summer window. Just because the players haven't started well, I'm not gonna jump of the bandwagon 8 league games in.

I'm at that stage as well mate, just seeing how it pans out a little bit before going bi-polar.

[Mattastico]

To me this thread is in danger of spiralling out off control headlong in to another summer transfer rights and wrongs debate. The OP seemed to me more focused on the criticism/censorship of people who are not happy and want to have a moan, be it about the transfers or anything else.

Personally I think that moderation is good in moderation. Anyone should be allowed to air their views on what has gone badly, and should be free to criticise anyone in the club if they have good reason to. What I think needs to be kept under control is the repetitive moaning and derailing of (almost) every topic by the people who have an axe to grind. None of us are happy with the displays so far this season, but to bring it up in just about every thread just means the forum as a whole suffers with one ongoing negative theme running throughout.

It's a tough one to deal with, maybe a bitching thread should be opened for all moans and criticism to be out in one place, where people can vent their frustrations and discuss where our transfer policy has gone wrong would do it. I doubt it though. If you aren't happy, fair enough, but just saying we should've done x,y,z isn't constructive. Come forward with a solution based upon our current position and discuss that as well.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, especially not the well written OP, but some people here need to get a grip and start bringing some positivity (or at least balanced views) to the forum or we'll end up seeing more and more good posters disappear and the whole place will degenerate in to one big shitfest.

Mods have a hard time of it at the best of times. Make it easy on them for once and look for something positive to add before you click post. It's depressing enough on here already!

To directly answer the OP, I think that the worse we play as a team, the more split the fan base becomes, and the split is down to human nature and the natural optimists v pessimists. Find a balance between the two and we have a good forum where different views are balanced and reasonably discussed. I don't think criticism is taboo or even frowned upon, but it is just getting too much at the moment and as a result there is a natural backlash.

[Homo rubrum]

I think dickheaded criticism backed up with nothing is and should be a bit taboo.  I think anybody who takes the time to create an OP that well-written can accuse Brendan Rodgers of getting the job through David Icke lizard people nepotism from his FSG sires, because at least it makes me think about whether or not I agree with his points. 

[Ken-Obi]

Season review in October.