Author Topic: LFC Player stats - 2008/09 (updated after Chelsea game)  (Read 14914 times)

Offline Greg

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LFC Player stats - 2008/09 (updated after Chelsea game)
« on: December 1, 2008, 01:24:15 pm »

The Keane analysis is on the 3rd or 4th post down.

(You may need to do CTRL+F5 to update the graphs)





















« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 11:48:48 am by Greg »

Offline Greg

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #1 on: December 1, 2008, 01:25:06 pm »
Back by popular demand (this may not actually be true), here are the player stats for this year.

The format will be slightly different to last season's. For a start, I'm more busy at work so haven't got time to update them as often. Secondly, I've put a bit of colour in to make them a bit more fancy looking. Thirdly, I'm gonna just update the first posts of this thread when I update them, so people don't have to trawl through all (I'm being optimistic there will be more than 1 page here) the pages of the thread.

This season I won't be including Carling Cup games. The reason for this is that a few fringe/youth players play in these games and then don't play again all season. Including them in the overall year's stats doesn't make sense just for one or two games they might play in. Depending on how seriously Rafa takes the FA Cup this season will determine whether I include that as well. So all that's included is PL and CL games.

I had planned to make this year's stats a bit more clever. I was going to try and weight players statistics depending on the quality of the opposition. Due to time constraints, this isn't ready yet, but might be later on.

As usual, none of these stats are official in any way. They are all based on my opinion and my mood at the time. But I try to be consistent.

I've done assists a bit differently this year. Direct Assists are classed as the last player to get a meaningful touch before the goal. An example of where this doesn't look that good is when Torres got an assist for Gerrard's free kick against PSV. He won the free kick and would not normally get an assist for it. But he does here.

Goal Contributions are defined as the last 3 Liverpool players touch the ball before a goal. This is a new thing. I brought this in because Xabi Alonso is involved in a lot of goals but is rarely the one who makes the final pass. I wanted something to show this. A player can get more than 1 contribution for a single goal.

Goal faults - for every goal conceded, I can fault up to 3 players. If the mistake is particularly bad, I can give them 2 faults. So far, only Carra's deft header against Tottenham has been worthy.

Team Scored and Team Conceded per 90 graphs are probably just the same as last year I think. Defined as how many goals the team scores (or concedes) when that player is on the pitch.

As usual, if you spot any mistakes I've made, give us a shout.

Offline Greg

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #2 on: December 1, 2008, 01:25:54 pm »
Statistical Analysis on Robbie Keane's LFC Career:


As Keane has now gone - thought it would be interesting to see how well (or badly) he's done statistically.

For starters, it is common knowledge that Rafa treated him badly. Keane has made 27 appearances this season in the PL, CL and FA Cup. Only Gerrard (31), Riera (28), Alonso (29), Arbeloa (29), Kuyt (32), Carragher (34) and Reina (32) have made more appearances than him.

Excluding Degen, Cavalieri has only made 2 appearances this season in the above competitions. It is a fucking disgrace. Why is Rafa treating him like that?

Yeah, but how many of Keane's appearances have been ones where's he's been hooked? Out of his 27 appearances, he's been substituted in 18 of those. That is proof that he has been treated badly. Bad, bad Rafa. Does this man know how to man manage? Surely he must have something against Keane for hauling him off in so many matches?

Hang on. Albert Riera - how many times has he been subbed? He has been subbed off a total of 20 times. That's more times than Keane for fuck's sake! Surely, surely this means that Albert Riera is being treated like a piece of shit? Riera's confidence must be fragile, Rafa is destroying him. This is wrong, so wrong. Wait a minute, why haven't the press picked up on this? Why has nobody noticed this? Something is seriously wrong here.

Of all our forwards, only Kuyt and Gerrard have played more minutes this season than Keane. Given that Gerrard has played in centre midfield quite a bit, and Kuyt has played on the right hand side nearly all season, it looks obvious that Keane has had more minutes up front than anyone else.

Looking now at his goals. Keane has scored 7 goals. Those 7 goals came in 5 games. 1 against PSV, 1 against Atletico, 2 against WBA, 1 against Arsenal and 2 against Bolton. Not the best, but I suppose it could have been worse. Credit should be given to him that his goals against PSV, Atletico, WBA and Arsenal were the first goals of the game - the most difficult goals to score. Out of those 7 goals, 5 came in the first half and only 2 (against Bolton) came in the second half. Robbie Keane has played in a total of 27 second halves this season. Only one of those matches he scored in.

His goals per 90 minutes ratio is 0.35. Which means he scores one goal every 3 full games. That ratio doesn't seem that bad really. But it's telling that David N'gog (the player who has been taking his place on the bench recently) has a higher ratio than Keane. N'gog's is 0.39, and he has only 1 goal to his name.

I have Keane down for 4 direct assists. One against Boro, one against Everton, one against Spurs and one against PSV. The Boro and Spurs assists were both arguably slightly fortuitous.

His direct assists per 90 minutes ratio is 0.20, a total of 1 direct assists per 5 full games. That's a smaller ratio than Benayoun, Lucas, Torres, Gerrard, N'gog and Pennant. He is on a par with Kuyt, Aurelio and Babel.

I think a lot of people would have been happy with Keane if his assists made for his lack of goals - or vice versa - his goals made up for his lack of assists. But it seems that he suffered on both counts.

Having a look at his goal contributions, he ended up with 6. As 4 of them went down as direct assists, that means that he only contributed to 2 other goals. Once against Everton (in the build up to Torres' second goal) and once against Man Utd (the ball may have hit his arse in the build up to the own goal). This is quite a surprise to me. For someone who is apparently a good footballer, why is he not involved in many goals?

His goal contribution per 90 minutes ratio reflects this. The only players who have a worse ratio are defenders.

Just to show that I'm not picking on him, he has done well in terms of goal faults. He hasn't been at fault for any goals.

The Team Scored per 90 graph shows that Keane was one of our worst performers. Only Dossena and Arbeloa (surprisingly I think) have lower figures than Keane.

Ending on a positive, he tops the Team Conceded per 90 graph. This means that when Keane plays, we are statistically less likely to concede a goal than when any other player is playing.

So there you have it. Statistically, Robbie Keane has not been very good. Statistics don't tell the whole story though, so you have to form the whole picture by watching him play.

And for all those who believe that Rafa Benitez has destroyed Robbie Keane - have a look at what he's done to Albert Riera. Next time you claim that continually subbing him destroyed Keane's confidence, ask yourself why it hasn't destroyed Riera's confidence. Maybe you should also consider the fact that even though Riera has been withdrawn more times than Keane - why is that you can only remember Keane's disappointed reaction, and not Riera's? I'll tell you why. Because the TV cameras want to create a sensation, an agenda, a big story. And you bought it.

A bit more:

In a total of 3090 minutes this season, we've scored 54 goals. Keane has played 1777 minutes and in that time, Liverpool have scored 27 goals. Without Keane, Liverpool have played 1313 minutes and scored 27 goals.

Therefore, Liverpool scored a goal every 65 minutes when Keane was playing.

Liverpool scored a goal every 48 minutes when he wasn't playing.
« Last Edit: February 4, 2009, 11:48:36 am by Greg »

royhendo

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #3 on: December 1, 2008, 01:33:30 pm »
cheers greg - please keep doing them cos i (for one) really like these threads...

Offline conman

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #4 on: December 1, 2008, 01:38:28 pm »
some nice stats there as an eyeopener.
shows an off form robbie keane is not doing too bad at all.
if he had of buried 2 or 3 gifted chances then it would be a really nice set of stats ..


Offline nicholasanthony

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #5 on: December 1, 2008, 02:00:47 pm »
If someone had said that Babel had played more than Lucas i probably wouldn't have believed them. But there you go.

Offline Rotation

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #6 on: December 1, 2008, 02:44:14 pm »
El Zhar is world class then :o . Seriously  a good player though.
ynwa

Offline choi

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #7 on: December 1, 2008, 02:51:04 pm »
play el zhar every match and we'll win 6-0 every game

Offline Ultimate Bromance

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #8 on: December 1, 2008, 02:56:04 pm »
Cheers, interesting bunch of graphs.
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Offline G1 Jockey 4(betfair)

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #9 on: December 1, 2008, 02:58:02 pm »
we will call him el star
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Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #10 on: December 1, 2008, 03:07:08 pm »
Makes for interesting reading

Thanks for that

Offline Texan

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #11 on: December 1, 2008, 03:08:33 pm »
I can hear Shanks slowly turning in his grave and mumbling something about 'bluddy stats'.

royhendo

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #12 on: December 1, 2008, 04:46:09 pm »
the goal contribution stat is useful greg - we need to focus on it as much as we do the direct assist chart and it's something a lot of us have discussed elsewhere - good on you mate.

the other interesting point - we concede fewest goals when keane and torres are on the pitch - defending from the front is borne out in the stats so far eh?

anyway, cheers again for these. we just need to start finishing with confidence and the numbers will start to look scary. level top with a game in hand to play tonight and we've not even really started playing at our real level yet.

Offline Californiadreamer

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #13 on: December 1, 2008, 06:42:12 pm »
Could you check on Direct Assists by Keane? premierleague.com shows 4.
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Offline Scribble8

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #14 on: December 1, 2008, 06:45:36 pm »
Sorry but Carragher never scored :(

Offline skipper757

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #15 on: December 1, 2008, 06:48:10 pm »
Sorry but Carragher never scored :(

That goal against Boro.  I'm not sure if it's officially a Carra goal or a Pogatetz own goal.
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Offline Scribble8

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #16 on: December 1, 2008, 06:52:06 pm »
Its a own goal. That site who watch every goal officially called it a own goal. And if it wouldn't hit Pogatez it would probably hit the post. But for me, still a Carra goal.

Offline Greg

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #17 on: December 2, 2008, 12:33:43 pm »
some nice stats there as an eyeopener.
shows an off form robbie keane is not doing too bad at all.
if he had of buried 2 or 3 gifted chances then it would be a really nice set of stats ..
It's a good point. But considering he is off form, why does he keep looking surprised when his number is held up?
El Zhar is world class then :o . Seriously  a good player though.
He's miles ahead in those graphs. Good player to bring on when a goal is needed, even if he is just a lucky omen.
the goal contribution stat is useful greg - we need to focus on it as much as we do the direct assist chart and it's something a lot of us have discussed elsewhere - good on you mate.
Glad you like it la. Assists just don't tell the full story. I had a funny feeling that Xabi would be top.

Could you check on Direct Assists by Keane? premierleague.com shows 4.
Don't forget, they will just have a spotty dickhead working for them who has to use his judgement, like I do. At least I don't have spots.

Sorry but Carragher never scored :(
Well he did in my world. Award given for effort at the least. Fuck what "official" things say.

Offline mjgill85

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #18 on: December 6, 2008, 05:01:26 pm »
El Zhar's numbers will get an even bigger bump after today ;D
@_michaelgill

Offline liverpoolfcmike

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #19 on: December 6, 2008, 05:07:02 pm »
El Zhar is a world class talent ;)

Offline choi

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #20 on: December 6, 2008, 09:48:44 pm »
still 100% winning record when el zhar's been on the pitch :)

Offline vietliv

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #21 on: December 8, 2008, 04:05:03 pm »
A very useful thread! Thanks much!

Offline gnaume

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09
« Reply #22 on: December 8, 2008, 05:00:09 pm »
nice to see these back, thanks!


Offline Greg

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09 (updated after Arsenal)
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2008, 11:08:06 am »
Updated after Arsenal.

Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09 (updated after Arsenal)
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2008, 11:42:40 am »
Greg's come up large once again. Brilliant stuff, mate!

Offline careca

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09 (updated after Arsenal)
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2008, 12:18:04 pm »
Greg a quality contribution will keep an eye out for future updates..
Keeping the faith

Offline gnaume

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Re: LFC Player stats - 2008/09 (updated after Arsenal)
« Reply #26 on: February 2, 2009, 09:20:25 pm »
any updates on this mate?

Offline Greg

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Updated after the Chelsea game. Keane analysis on the 3rd or 4th post down.

Offline Mook

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I don't think he got great service a lot of the time, true - he didn't have a great few months with us, but the service could've been better for him & I'm not sure if the stats cover that...

Offline rowan_d

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To be fair, it works both ways. The serving players would have better stats if he hadn't fucked up on so many of their crosses and cutbacks. Especially Riera, who'd have 2 or 3 more assists to his name were it not for Keane's quite abysmal finishing.

Offline lookieman

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Updated after the Chelsea game. Keane analysis on the 3rd or 4th post down.

:D Like what you did with the Keane analysis. Deserves its own thread imo.

Offline rowan_d

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Look at El Zhar's stats ;D

Offline Greg

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I don't think he got great service a lot of the time, true - he didn't have a great few months with us, but the service could've been better for him & I'm not sure if the stats cover that...

The stats also don't cover the amount of sitters he missed, or the amount of times he pointed at his feet.

Maybe the reason why Keane didn't get great service was because he continually asked the other players to play the ball the way he wanted it. Pointing at his feet all the time. Would have preferred Keane to have looked at how the team played and tried to play to the team's strengths, rather than his own. 

You can build your team around your best players. But Keane was never one of our best players.

Offline wesley

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thanks for the great work. it would be interesting to have the statistics of how many full and half chances robbie missed - although these incidents could be hard to define and quantify, i do feel they are one of the major reasons why rafa decided not to keep and play him.

Offline bryanod

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Offline Mook

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Easy to say in hindsight but I really can't see why we bought him, he's a proven player but he never fitted into our system (1 up top) & didn't seem to play to our strengths. Not entirely his fault either although I can see what you're saying about his wee huffs.

I'll be honest, I thought he'd do a job for us but I wish we'd spent the money on the right wing position now.

Offline Tom_B

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Would be a lot more sensible if you remained at least a little impartial in your post rather than going on the massive defensive about Rafa. You missed an assist off for Keane too.

Good work though generally.
« Last Edit: February 3, 2009, 03:23:48 pm by Tom_B »
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Offline tomtom

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The stats also don't cover the amount of sitters he missed, or the amount of times he pointed at his feet.

Maybe the reason why Keane didn't get great service was because he continually asked the other players to play the ball the way he wanted it. Pointing at his feet all the time. Would have preferred Keane to have looked at how the team played and tried to play to the team's strengths, rather than his own. 

You can build your team around your best players. But Keane was never one of our best players.

Come on, pointing to your feet is just something some people do to show for the ball and keeping it on the deck, if posible, is what we do anyway.

Offline LincsRedbob

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Great reading thanks for the time you have spend doing it

However the old story about reading to much into stats must be remembered.

How many times have you studied the form on a horse over a long period and your wife says "Oh i like that pritty grey one at 100/1"

And of course hers romps it

Fought them all the way. Proud to be amongst some great supporters.

SOS member 4969        12.09.12 JUSTICE FOR THE 96

Offline Tom_B

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P.s. That "goal contributions" stat is a little bit dubious. Why 3 players? Why not 4 or 5?

P.p.s. Torres had 6 direct assists?
« Last Edit: February 3, 2009, 03:21:09 pm by Tom_B »
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