Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[LiamG]

The thing is what mane offers more than firmino is a constant threat, defenders are scared of him because of his pace and power, yes firmino is a hard worker and always on defenders back but before a game you'd say defenders would be more scared of mane, it's massive affect on defenders psychologically, Much in the way defenders and managers would be bricking it when they would be facing torres or suarez

[Souness1]

what mate? 

think he meant math(s)

[deFacto please, you bastards]

think he meant math(s)

Ah ok. Not everyone learns British English lads and not everyone speaks English as their first language 

[88_RED]

Can we go back to the August and September tactics please.. with a bit more of September than August..

[bird_lfc]

I feel for him. Must be a fucking nightmare coaching a group of lads who only turn up when they fancy it.

I'll get my knife out in a few seasons if we're still finishing around 7th and he's had multiple transfer windows and brought his own men in. It's gonna take time , unfortunately but we're liveoool and we've been in 'transition' for like 20 years so what's another 5 or so hey

[killer-heels]

I feel for him. Must be a fucking nightmare coaching a group of lads who only turn up when they fancy it.

I'll get my knife out in a few seasons if we're still finishing around 7th and he's had multiple transfer windows and brought his own men in. It's gonna take time , unfortunately but we're liveoool and we've been in 'transition' for like 20 years so what's another 5 or so hey

I agree but he takes a bit of responsibility. Everyone knew that Milner at fullback and Klavan and Lucas as backup was a concern. But Klopp felt it was good enough.

He was wrong.

[jacdaniel]

It's just not working. We have poor goalkeepers, defence is still terrible and consists of 2 veteran CMs, we have no good strikers and are poor in midfield when Can plays. Also have an awful bench.

Manager has not done enough in the transfer market and hasn't been pragmatic on the pitch. That could be down to budget.

This club needs to go back to basics, build from the back, become hard to beat. That's what we were when we were competing in CL finals.

5 years of attacking football now and we've won nothing. A few finals and good spells but ultimately nothing.

It's depressing, but it will continue until we can defend as a team.

[rawcusk8]

Carra and Neville are right we played into their hands tactics wise, Vardy had so much room to move into. Klopps tactics were awful tonight surely it's not rocket science to figure out Vardy was going to fuck us over if we leave room in behind.

[SerbianScouser]

At least it's extremely clear what the problem is. We can't deal with direct teams. As consistently good we are against the teams that want to pass it around on the deck (which is mostly big teams in this league) we are that much terrible against teams that go direct.

Rafa had the exact same problem in his first year and what he did was bring in a bunch of lads like Crouch, Sissoko to make us more physical and more apt to deal with direct play. So, it's gonna be interesting what Klopp will try to do next season because if he doesn't deal with this problem he's either gonna not win anything with us or his job will be under jeopardy.

There are two clear directions - he may bring a couple of physical lads in who can thrive in these scraps for second balls (which seems unlikely to me) or he will simply have to improve our build-up play dramatically which basically means we'll need more lads with courage on the ball at the back because that was the gist of the problem tonight.

Our build-up play was terrible and there wasn't enough courage on the ball to pass through their press meaning our keeper turned the game into a scrap of second balls which is a battle we are always gonna lose against teams like Leicester. If we solve the problem we'll be able to get the best out of our front 5 against any types of teams or we'll need a different style of play.

[Haggis36]

See to me, this is the aspect that is just as worrying. Ok, so the players aren't really good enough, quelle surprise. We kind of knew that, deep down, didn't we? But it's the complete lack of purpose and direction in our play that concerns me, it looks exactly like the very last days of Rodgers - just chuck 11 players out and hope they do something despite the fact it hasn't worked for a while now.

I mean we were found out nearly two months ago. That's two months for Klopp to come up with something, anything, to try and get us actually competing again. Hell, we're just back from a mini pre-season - I really hoped we would have worked on something, be it an improved defensive shape or better attacking patterns and play, but tonight looked every inch the same shite we've been serving up for the past 2 months. What were they doing in La Manga? Time and time again we try the same old things and make the same old mistakes. If there is a plan, it doesn't look like any of the players are aware.

Many of them aren't good enough (at all...) but they are better than they are currently playing, and when the whole team looks completely rank and genuinely impotent, then at which point does the focus shift? Are they being given the tools/instructions to help them?

I mean Lucas as CB against one of the fastest strikers in the league? Are we surprised? We need something to change, and fast, or we'll be lucky to make Europe in any shape or form. Currently though, we're stuck blindly banging our head against a brick wall and just hoping at one point it will stop hurting.

[plura]

I agree but he takes a bit of responsibility. Everyone knew that Milner at fullback and Klavan and Lucas as backup was a concern. But Klopp felt it was good enough.

He was wrong.

I agree. And I think that's fair. He can't be 100% right. And you learn from your failures. What I do hope we will see is him and the owners to put this right in the summer. They should have done it in January but missed doing so for whatever reason.

[idontknow]

And you learn from your failures.

I don't.
From what I've seen other people generally don't.
Corporations might, but only so they don't get caught in the future.
And countries definitely don't.

The reason we raise our great managers so high is because they did learn from their mistakes, and when that happens, we recognise it as rare, unusual.

We just can't copy it, because it isn't normal. It is special, unique, remarkable. It is what those words mean.

[El Lobo]

That tonight was arrogance through the whole team, starting with the manager.

[jillcwhomever]

I feel for him. Must be a fucking nightmare coaching a group of lads who only turn up when they fancy it.

I'll get my knife out in a few seasons if we're still finishing around 7th and he's had multiple transfer windows and brought his own men in. It's gonna take time , unfortunately but we're liveoool and we've been in 'transition' for like 20 years so what's another 5 or so hey

Just seen him in the press conference as ever a brutally honest assessment from him. He doesn't make excuses for himself, takes full responsibility. He defends the players, someone asked tonight if some of the players were as good as he thought. On the one side its a stupid question as no manager would answer truly, especially if they knew that to be the case, and I am pretty sure he does. But his answer was, he feels some players need him to help to work through the problems. That to me means there are some who are struggling to do what's required. Which is a worry.

He has made some mistakes too, he doesn't hide from that either. He needs to learn from this season, and I have confidence he will. But I admire his honesty and candid nature when the pressure is on like this. Though to be fair to the media there were not gunning for him, but sadly I'm sure others will be.

[ANFIELDGATES]

Unfortunately we have too many nice players,too soft if you will.the prem league is brutal and unforgiving if you dont match a team for effort and honesty.Too many on here rate coutinho like hes the next messi but i think hes the most overated player in the starting 11.everytime he gets the ball he either tries a ridiculous shot or give an impossible pass,he never tracks back and is generally fluff.However atm we dont have anyone who can tak a game by the scruff of the neck and drive a team back into their own half and dominate them physically and mentally.We are a soft touch for every working team in the prem.Its so frustrating as we have undoubted talent but without that desire and graft we are up to nothing.To see a team like utd passing us out probably this weekend is sickening as i believe they are ass bad as us in many areas but seem to have got a bit of swagger back which will see them thru more games than not.We are the new spurs,all flair with no end product and as soon as a team have a go we are rabitts caught in the headlights..

[RK7]

That tonight was arrogance through the whole team, starting with the manager.

It's naivety, it makes absolutely no sense to go away to Leicester and play a high line with Lucas part of the back four.

There is no way that we consider each game in isolation in detail. We just go in with the same cavalier approach and hope the opposition crumble. Trouble is its predictable and easy to counter.

Big problems ahead and little sign of improvement which is really surprising.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

If he wants to finish in the top four, he's going to have to change his tactics and team for the the rest of the league. Against the top sides, it works without question. But he has to be more flexible tactically at this point, as this 2nd haf of the season has been the worst since Hodgson.

He needs to step up just like the players do. I don't want to hear any sound bites in the press from him or the players, do your job, sort it out on the pitch, talk later.

[RedForeverTT]

Unfortunately we have too many nice players,too soft if you will.the prem league is brutal and unforgiving if you dont match a team for effort and honesty.Too many on here rate coutinho like hes the next messi but i think hes the most overated player in the starting 11..

He was partly responsible for the first goal with that ridiculous back header to Gini, who then ridiculously pass to a Leicester player in the middle of the pitch.

If we want to show intent, we should replace our star player Coutinho with a bigger and brighter star out there. Just to make a statement.

[KiNki]

he's playing the hand of cards given.

[RK7]

he's playing the hand of cards given.

He could have brought new cards or twisted. Nobody said that's your lot get on with it.

[007.lankyguy]

It's all very well saying Klopp needs to change tack but when you come out and complete four passes in the first eight minutes and end up with 36 losses of possession over the whole game, there's not much a manager can do.

[El Lobo]

he's playing the hand of cards given.

I don't think anyone gave him Lucas and said 'right there you go, a CB' but I guess that all depends on just how far you want to push an agenda.

[jillcwhomever]

I don't think anyone gave him Lucas and said 'right there you go, a CB' but I guess that all depends on just how far you want to push an agenda.

He may feel he has no other choice though. If he does feel there are some mentally weak players, in the squad, then he has to use other people instead of them. That was the impression I got from him when someone asked the question, does he feel some players are not as good, as he first thought. Whatever you say about Lucas, he is a honest professional.

[KiNki]

I don't think anyone gave him Lucas and said 'right there you go, a CB' but I guess that all depends on just how far you want to push an agenda.

who was the alternative centre half available for tonight?

Liverpool have conceded 181 PL goals in the last 4 seasons - only 8 teams have conceded more.  Damning stat for this club. 

Something Jurgen will have to address at some point.   I expect he will sign another centre half in the summer but for now, he's playing the hand he's got.

[Giono]

All this talk of 'playing the hand he was dealt'. Does that make Sakho a discard? Or the Joker?


We've had a Sakho-sized hole this season that was not filled in the summer or in January.

[KiNki]

All this talk of 'playing the hand he was dealt'. Does that make Sakho a discard? Or the Joker?

We've had a Sakho-sized hole this season that was not filled in the summer or in January.

joker.  Not amusing to klopp though. 

It's about trust and clearly Klopp didn't trust him. 

clyne matip lovren lucas milner
hendo gini lallana can
mane firmino phil

are players Klopp has trusted this season and will trust and use til the end of the season. The others, only if we absolutely have our hand forced, will we see moreno, sturridge, origi start.

It's such a small pool of players.  I expect big changes regardless of where we finish in the league.

[Giono]

If you have a small pool of players and an even smaller pol of central defenders, maybe Klopp should have tried to manage the situation differently? There are lots of players that have falling outs and end up in dog-houses only to resurface. Look at Man U or Chelsea this season for example.


Don't get me wrong, I respect and appreciate Klopp. But his valuing loyalty over performance is a bit of a weakness. The starting 11 today were his best professionals and he is certainly loyal to them...and they didn't show up.

[JackWard33]

joker.  Not amusing to klopp though. 

It's about trust and clearly Klopp didn't trust him. 

clyne matip lovren lucas milner
hendo gini lallana can
mane firmino phil

are players Klopp has trusted this season and will trust and use til the end of the season. The others, only if we absolutely have our hand forced, will we see moreno, sturridge, origi start.

It's such a small pool of players.  I expect big changes regardless of where we finish in the league.

Correct and it makes our last two transfer windows totally inexplicable

[Sheer Magnetism]

he's playing the hand of cards given.

We signed two central defenders at the start of the season and got rid of a couple in January. If Lucas is playing ahead of Sakho, or Klavan, that's Klopp's decision and no one else's. Rodgers certainly wasn't playing Lucas at centre back.

[JackWard33]

Is anyone else surprised by how inflexible he's been this year?

Think the only time he's varied our approach is at old Trafford where he played a diamond
Other than that we've run out the same 433 with a 1-2 in midfield regardless of fixture or personnel. Didn't change it when Mane and coutinho were out and we had no wide forward, haven't changed it when Henderson has been out and we haven't had a '6', haven't changed our defensive line regardless of personnel opposition

It's been odd - especially when our system is a tough one to play without certain plaŷera and especially when he was so much more flexible with the set up last season

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

We signed two central defenders at the start of the season and got rid of a couple in January. If Lucas is playing ahead of Sakho, or Klavan, that's Klopp's decision and no one else's. Rodgers certainly wasn't playing Lucas at centre back.

I haven't seen how he's done recently, but I'm starting to think we should just give Joe Gomez a go.

[Suareznumber7]

Is anyone else surprised by how inflexible he's been this year?

Think the only time he's varied our approach is at old Trafford where he played a diamond
Other than that we've run out the same 433 with a 1-2 in midfield regardless of fixture or personnel. Didn't change it when Mane and coutinho were out and we had no wide forward, haven't changed it when Henderson has been out and we haven't had a '6', haven't changed our defensive line regardless of personnel opposition

It's been odd - especially when our system is a tough one to play without certain plaŷera and especially when he was so much more flexible with the set up last season

I've been extremely surprised actually.

We've definitely played 4-2-3-1 at times this year along with 4-3-3 which obviously are pretty similar formations but I think we definitely should have changed things up a bit at times.  When Mane was gone I thought for sure we were going to use the diamond formation again but instead we stuck to the same setup moving players around. 

One possible explanation, Klopp and his staff don't think the players that we have are able/good enough to play different formations.  A lot of people have been asking for a "Mane light" this summer and while I do agree we need more wingers I think we need to get some players who the manager trust and have the ability to play in more then one system. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Is anyone else surprised by how inflexible he's been this year?

Think the only time he's varied our approach is at old Trafford where he played a diamond
Other than that we've run out the same 433 with a 1-2 in midfield regardless of fixture or personnel. Didn't change it when Mane and coutinho were out and we had no wide forward, haven't changed it when Henderson has been out and we haven't had a '6', haven't changed our defensive line regardless of personnel opposition

It's been odd - especially when our system is a tough one to play without certain plaŷera and especially when he was so much more flexible with the set up last season

Yes and it's why I mentioned earlier that he has to take a look at himself and be able to be more flexibile, because in losing positions we're not changing our shape, we're not making adjustments when things are not going well.

[mrantarctica]

The problem is with the players. They just aren't that good. Remember, it's not that Klopp came in and has a completely new squad. These players weren't good enough under Brendan, so its pretty amazing if anyone thinks they'll be that good under Klopp. They are playing at about par level which is about 6th best or 7th best. The fact that we started strongly is because we had a good pre-season, were well rested and other clubs started slowly (probably due to their significant personnel changes).

Yes his tactics are inflexible, and we can bemoan the lack of subs, the fact that he waits ages to make a change, or continues to play the same system even when its been found out but all of these stem from the fact that the players aren't good enough and I think he knows that.

Ever since our second place finish under Brendan, I've applied the same benchmark to our players. If our aspirations are truly top 4 (or better) than in every position, we should look to have a player that is at or near the best 4 in the league for that position. I'd argue that perhaps only Hendo, Coutinho, Lallana and Mane really fit that description on a consistent basis. The rest are either too inconsistent, or not close to that level. If we have a team largely full of players who are 7th best or 8th best for each position, with maybe 4 or 5 (injury depending) that are in the top 4 or so, then how can we expect to finish anywhere other than about 6th or 7th?

First thing is get the right players in ; namely players who are good technically, robust physically and able to actually play the tactics Klopp wants to play. After we do that, then perhaps we can see what his tactical acumen is like. At the moment, we've got a bunch of mediocre players who would be similarly average irrespective of the tactics they played and who was managing them.

[Sat1]

This bunch needs a major overhaul. Commanding keeper, commanding CB, commanding Midfielder and a finisher. I'd change the whole back four. Lovren gone, Milner gone, matip and clyne as back up. We're playing this tippy tappy crap in the middle of the park and it's not working, and the lack of overlap from both fullbacks is shocking.

I think for Klopp to have a real team to challenge it's going to take a change from the owners and the manager, too much trust is put into this cowardly bunch. 2 maybe 3 good windows to do this, think we all know funds won't be given for a big change and that Klopp doesn't work that way

[MJ1966]

I'm also pretty confident that the problem lies within the players, not Jurgen. Similar things were happening under the previous manager. I would advise some roster changes - we have got players who lack technical skill and I'm not sure if they will ever be able to match others. I have been following Liverpool since a long time, but just now I'm seriously worried about the team.

Don't get me wrong - I love Liverpool and I will always stand beside them.

[AaronSingh25]

He's a fantastic manager with pedigree of winning, and will be given many years here.

However, that's not to say he isn't falable. He's had 3 transfer windows to get the team to how he wants it and he has to take the blame for the deficeiencies.

If he is not prepared to back his corner and get the transfers he wants, and trots out the spin that 'money is available to buy players' - then he has to take full blame for the fiasco for the recruitment. If the scouts are not doing their jobs, and not finding the players he wants to fit his system then he should not be their fall guy and play the spin game by saying how great they are. Furthermore if they are struggling, then i believe he holds enough power at the club to get rid of any of the background team who are letting him down for whatever reason.

He's taken the onus to praise pretty much everyone from owners, to the background scouts, Edwards and co - so ultimately he is taking the full responsibility on himself.

He's a great manager - i just wonder how much experience he has in the recruitment side, and how clever is he at tackling board room politics to get his own way.

[puroresu_kid]

We signed two central defenders at the start of the season and got rid of a couple in January. If Lucas is playing ahead of Sakho, or Klavan, that's Klopp's decision and no one else's. Rodgers certainly wasn't playing Lucas at centre back.

When Rodgers played Can Centre back there was criticism. Klopp shouldn't be immune to it. I just don't see why we are in a position where Lucas is seen as the best option.

[il_principino]

Now heres the bottomline.

Its not how much you rest players before a game, its about getting the right players in the right positions on matchday.

When i saw lucas on cb duty, when lineups were put up, I knew he would get bullied by likes of vardy. He doesnt simply have the skills or the stature to be a CB. Why couldnt have klopp stocked up on a decent covering CB!

The team has lost their innovation. Their game is very one dimensional. pass pass wings..cross... cleared. pass again!
except coutinho and mane i dont see any creativity or innovation in that squad. Thats just 2 of our attackers. poor. simply not good enough!

the squad does not need a major surgery, just more depth, that if one of the regulars gets injured, there is a young one waiting in the wings who can get the job done.

simply frustrating, that despite the funds available we had a positive turnout on sales and in the process never bolstered our side except mane.

well...how does klopp go ahead with this!

[il_principino]

When Rodgers played Can Centre back there was criticism. Klopp shouldn't be immune to it. I just don't see why we are in a position where Lucas is seen as the best option.

I think klopp has too much faith in the wrong players. Thats a bit worrying even going forward.

Its a no brainer, the guy is a box to box cm or cdm at best. To play him cb is like asking lovren to play on the wings.