Topic: Round Table Manchester City 3-0 Liverpool

[Hinesy]

Even with ten men, City still looked like they had 11 on the pitch. We were poor, unlucky and lethargic in equal measures. Carroll on his own isn't going to work, especially when the ball into the box isn't whipped in at pace, but lumped in, depending on our striker to create the pace.

Frustrating for me as Downing's early chance could've easily been tucked away and put the jitters on City, they were already shaky a bit and that miss and Pepe's mistake gave Manchester City the confidence.

But neither side sparkled. And to be honest, what pissed me off is that we as sloppy as them and they were quicker to close down and hassle us in the midfield yet they were the ones who'd lost 48 hrs earlier.

I was surprised and to be honest, pleased yet annoyed, at the injection of life and pace Bellamy and Gerrard's substitutions gave us. Pleased because we needed it, but annoyed because where was it before then?

Still, we didn't lose 6-1 to them at ours, and we lost by the same 3 goals last season, and the big worry for me right now is that they'll tank us in the Carling Cup which I want us to win.

Onwards and hopefully upwards. But an opportunity lost.

[SMD]

Our midfield was utterly awful. Carroll may have put in some stinkers this season but he can't be faulted for a lack of service that shamed our summer transfers. For Downing's early chance, read multiple early chances this season that we haven't taken. We really have some glaring deficiencies and honestly they're fairly basic. We bring pressure on ourselves by either not playing simple passes or not making the proper runs. Plenty of times Downing would pass the ball and just stop, whereas Henderson would go for impossible one twos or Adam would dally in the middle of the pitch.

I seen a stat that we had twice as many passes as City. I just think that sums up how useless some of our possession can be, I'm all for controlling the ball and I believe that it's important to hold on but when we get 20 yards of the goal, we just lump it forward to Carroll who is crowded out by 4 City players. Barcelona are always referred to as an example to follow but you don't need to copy the details. They play their one twos on the edge of the box, up until the 85th minute we were playing them in the centre circle. We don't go to the byline, we go to the touch line and cross it from 40 yards, floated into Carroll to knock it to no one in particular.

Our defence was actually alright, Pepe's mistake aside. Skrtel gave away a penalty but that was a dive and Enrique was again sloppy (fatigue?) but still not that bad. Johnson looks incredible frustrated at the lack of chemistry ahead of him.

What now? We're in January and still complaining about the same problems as the beginning of the season. Can we rely on these players to gel or is it time to roll the dice again?

EDIT: Just seen this:



http://fourfourtwo.com/statszone/share.aspx?i=04FqH

[Garstonite]

I wouldn't say our midfield was utterly awful, SMD. They controlled City for most of the game. They are, however, limited. Henderson, Adam and Spearing are all 'middle third players'. They're disciplined, they're good passers of the ball and they can even dictate the majority of games at their own pace. What they lack is that cutting edge that City have in abundance. Yaya Toure's running with the ball, Silva's range of passing and all-round game intelligence. Even the players they brought on have that je ne sais quoi.

The football purists on here turn their nose up at Milner and Adam Johnson, but both would improve our side. Milner, in fact, is everything we hope Kuyt to be when he steps out onto the pitch. Industrious, strong, courageous... and he can trap a ball and get his head up.

Tonight - and our home game against City to a lesser extent - show we're still some way off the pace and investment is necessary for us to move onto that next level. If Adam, Kuyt and Downing are regular starters next term, we've done something wrong.

[Azi]

for me we lacked the killer ball up until gerrard and bellamy came on we could have played all night and not scored and that's not a swipe at Andy our service to him was poor and fair play to Andy he still got on with it. spearing was impressive he kept city at bay and had it not been a mistake by pepe i couldn't see them scoring either.even though we conceded 3 skrtel and agger. were brilliant downing has no confidence left what so ever and think it might be time he got a spell on the bench

[Chakan]

The score flattered them , plain and simple. Both teams were pretty dire, City probably just as many shots on target as us and converted 2 of them (not counting the Penalty) the one being a freak mistake by Reina. In regards to that, I don't think the ball dipped or swerved any more or less than usual , I think Reina just lost the flight of it an misjudged it. The arc seemed right and it just went under him. I wouldn't like to be in the Reina household tonight, knowing him he will be livid with himself, he really should have saved it.

Carroll unfortunately upfront by himself isn't going to get us what we need. He doesn't bring much to the team in that position on his own. He needs someone next to him to play with in a 4-4-2 if he we stick him up there. Sure the service was poor today but even on a poor cross you need to give the defender something to think about. You need to be the defenders first thought of what problems you are going to cause them, tonight Carroll was a mere after thought. And seriously we should try sign Kompany, if we are going to hit him with every cross he mind as well wear a red shirt and try put it in.

Spearing I thought was great , seemed to keep Toure/Silva pretty quiet so well done to the lad, I still don't think we need Tiote. Adam for me was quite poor, his distribution was lacking he just seemed all too casual. Downing unfortunately for me had a shocker. Switch Downing to the right side and he becomes the defenders best friend. You know exactly what to expect from him on the right, he won't try beat you to the by line cause he can't cross with his right foot, so he'll either stop play and pass it back or cut in and play it square. If you cut off the cut inside route you have Downing sussed. We either play him exclusively on the left or don't play him at all. If Maxi gets on the end of Henderson's through ball it's 1-0 to us and City are on wobbly legs. Taking nothing away from Hart it was a good save. But i'd rather having Maxi trying to score than Downing.

Our defense was quite solid, Enrique looked like a rock again, although going forward is definitely where he falls down. But that part will come. Skrtel and Agger really had thier hands full and they did well again. Kun apart from the shot was relatively anonymous. Dzecko really didn't bother them too much. Johnson unfortunately was at fault for the goal, you would think after Pepe had to make a reflex save that they would be extra vigilant on the next corner, but Johnson just lets Toure ghost away from him and the rest is history. Too late to recover.

Bellamy looked lively when he came on, pity his knees are shot and he can't play 2 games in a row. Gerrard unfortunately couldn't affect the game as he did the Newcastle one, did he look tired? Anyway will see if he plays against Oldham.

I definitely think we need to sign a proven striker this window. Someone who infront of goal you would put your house on the ball ending up in the back of the net. Right now without Suarez it's hard to see where the goals are going to come from if Bellamy and Maxi are on the bench. I think this is a key piece we are missing. We need a hernandez, a fox in the box, cause quite frankly if I was a defender I wouldn't worry about Andy Carroll right now. He would be my after thought.

[Corkboy]

First things first. Andy Carroll was up against the best centre half in the league tonight in Kompany, he is stunning. When Kuyt eventually joined Carroll in the box, Kompany gutted him too. And I don't think Carroll played especially badly.

Second. Yaya Toure is another phenomenon, a Rolls Royce of a player. Scored one, made one and both game changers. He didn't have much influence in the game otherwise, and that sounds ridiculous but that's the sort of game it was.

Third. Hart is a very good keeper. Right now, he's not making any mistakes and his all round game is at a very high level. Reina made a mistake but he doesn't make many and he got through some good work tonight, too.

We basically got done by a more professional clinical side on the night. They struck at the first sign of weakness, and then did it again. Then they got a man sent off and did it again. Apart from that, they did very little but they coped with everything we threw at them without much trouble.

And finally, a little gift for the Dirk haters, because he was dreadful. And yet, were it not for Kompany, he might well have scored, and changed the game.

[Garstonite]

And finally, a little gift for the Dirk haters, because he was dreadful. And yet, were it not for Kompany, he might well have scored, and changed the game.

He did change the game, in fairness. It was his brainfart in our final third that led to Aguero's goal.

[Corkboy]

He did change the game, in fairness. It was his brainfart in our final third that led to Aguero's goal.

It was disappointing because he tried to do Silva and failed, in a dangerous'ish area. But Silva pressed well and is a decent waspy tackler. Him and Enrique were going at it a few times down our left, too, although Enrique usually had too much for him.

I love Enrique. In possession, he basically says to anyone near him, no matter where he is on the pitch, come on have a go. I have yet to see him smash one to Row Z. He does the same little two or three touch pirouette all the time, the one where he turns away from the pressing player in an anticlockwise 270 degree stylee using his left peg. One could be charitable and observe that using the left keeps the ball on a more outlying arc relative to Enrique's posture, thus making it more difficult for the pressing player. So that's what we'll do.

His corner flag routines are the best. It's the same situation but because it's near the corner flag, they're allowed get it on a bit, so Jose sticks his big muscular butt out, and then his big fucking Popeye arms and chest and then does his pirouette again. And then he sets off upfield to goad someone else into trying to tackle him. Finally, he never passes the ball in the air until he gets to the final quarter. He's smashing.

[Aristotle]

I know I keep bringing this up everytime he plays. But tonight further highlights what I've said about Gerrard. Unless he plays well, we don't. People were euphoric when he stepped on the pitch against Newcastle and improved everyone else around him but (most likely down to me being a pessimistic c*nt) I wasn't. For me it wasn't that we had our captain Fantastic back, but a clear point how lost we are without him.

Charlie Adam being case in point. He did really well when Carroll knocked it down to him, his first touch past Toure and winning the foul. A part of me thought "well, he might just have a great game". Only for him to be caught ball watching in defense and asking for the ball time and time again from Spearing and Henderson only to back into two City players and pass it back. He looks absolutely exhausted, mentally and physically and really could use a rest.

Henderson showed promise and his pass for Downing's sitter was sublime but he's still rough around the edges and doesn't have the experience or qualities (yet) to take control of a game, espescially a game such as against City away.

And speaking of Downing. My ohh my where can we start. I'm trying my very very best to think of a positive sign regarding him but extremely difficult. He's so predictable in his actions and so afraid to think outside the box that it's painful to watch. The rare times he crosses the ball it's not a drilled cross that only needs directing it's a floater, trying to defy gravity and I doubt that using their combined effrots neither Kyrgiakos nor Hyypia could hit it at goal, which leaves little hope for a terrified Andy Carroll. Downing's Modus Operandi appears to be feign to the fullback's right or left and cancel and pass back, if the fullback hasn't cocked that up Downing hits a cross to the other winger or one that does not beat the first defender. He does the exact same thing on the other flank so I don't get how he plays better on the right than left. For the one player that was supposed to hit the ground running. In his prime, most experience, longest time in the league, most international caps and yet he seems to be running in quicksand instead of running full-speed ahead. Why he keeps starting ahead of Maxi every week is beyond me. I love Dalglish's loyalty and I'm sure that Downing is a great figure in the training ground and locker room but if meritocricy is in full effect than Downing must start picking splinters out of his arse.

And Dirk Kuyt. I really have time for him, but unless he's gonna be played as a wide forward or up top we might as well give a youth player a chance. He's wasted as an out-and-out winger and he seems to, for whatever reason, have lost his never-say-die spirit.


On a more positive note Enrique continues to impress and has had an almost erotic level of consistency. Spearing did very well and it must be an inspiring sign to any young player seeing that working hard will see you rewarded. And what I wouldn't give for a miracle cure for Bellamy's knees.

[SMD]

I wouldn't say our midfield was utterly awful, SMD. They controlled City for most of the game. They are, however, limited. Henderson, Adam and Spearing are all 'middle third players'. They're disciplined, they're good passers of the ball and they can even dictate the majority of games at their own pace. What they lack is that cutting edge that City have in abundance. Yaya Toure's running with the ball, Silva's range of passing and all-round game intelligence. Even the players they brought on have that je ne sais quoi.

The football purists on here turn their nose up at Milner and Adam Johnson, but both would improve our side. Milner, in fact, is everything we hope Kuyt to be when he steps out onto the pitch. Industrious, strong, courageous... and he can trap a ball and get his head up.

Tonight - and our home game against City to a lesser extent - show we're still some way off the pace and investment is necessary for us to move onto that next level. If Adam, Kuyt and Downing are regular starters next term, we've done something wrong.

I can't see Dirk being here much longer. He doesn't offer us energy and movement, which just accentuates his flaws. Downing is the biggest disappointment for me, he just adds nothing. Riera was better than him. Why doesn't he understand that we don't mind if things don't come off as long as the effort is there? Luis Garcia had a song for him just months after he joined because he was such a hero, more cult than legendary but a hero nonetheless. Did he pass forwards once? I remember one cross at the end on his right but that didn't even go forward or even get to a red shirt, did it?
Honestly, our transfer experiment seems to have failed - we identified players in the Prem to settle in quickly and they've done anything but.

[Aristotle]

Honestly, our transfer experiment seems to have failed - we identified players in the Prem to settle in quickly and they've done anything but.

I think it was an "arm around the shoulder" type of thing, rather then the proven premier league thing. The club was in the shitter, players wanted out we were facing relegation and so forth. So, imo, it wasn't more premier league proven as it was trying to get a good morale going and building a dressing room with a "Liverpool is the be all and end all of the universe" mentality.

[SMD]

I think it was an "arm around the shoulder" type of thing, rather then the proven premier league thing. The club was in the shitter, players wanted out we were facing relegation and so forth. So, imo, it wasn't more premier league proven as it was trying to get a good morale going and building a dressing room with a "Liverpool is the be all and end all of the universe" mentality.

Well, whatever it was, it hasn't worked.

I know I'm being supercritical but that's because of a number of things:

- this has not been sold to us as a long term project. As fans, ultimately we don't care and want to win every single game ever. We temper that with the realism that it's strictly not possible. It's sport, anything can happen on a given day but the best train to make sure that doesn't happen. Hand on heart, does it look like our players play with that attitude?

- we have shown that we can be very good. We've had a huge turnover of players in the last 18 months or so but since Kenny's come back, he's shown he can get them playing and with confidence. Why does a midfield of Lucas, Spearing and Meireles look like it has more steel than Lucas, Adam and Henderson? Why is it that without Lucas, not a single one of our midfielders - Gerrard excepted but he's nowhere near match fit - can step up even in a temporary capacity? Lucas has the consistency but no one's really stood up for a run of games to stake a claim in his absence. Spearing was unlucky to be sent off but as part of a midfield 3 he needs to stop throwing himself about. Against City, at times, there was still that gap in the middle of the park. With 3 in the middle, that's criminal in my opinion.

- if we go back to the first point, it seems like we went into the season with Adam as Gerrard's understudy and Spearing as Lucas'. Given Gerrard's fitness record, was that wise? Did Kenny have the belief that Adam was good enough to be a semi-permanent replacement for Stevie or is this something the medical department neglected to fully brief him on?

- for the last few seasons, the top of the table have been anything but consistent. Since that gut wrenching finale to 08/09, no team has really been invincible. It may seem bizarre to say that with City on 48 points with a goal difference of 40 but honestly, we could've beat them at home and stood toe to toe with them last night. That's 3 points dropped just based on what happened in each match. I don't think I need to go over our home form again but in terms of the overall story of this season, it fits quite well with the general theme. We shot ourselves in the foot. We don't give ourselves room for error. Fine, Pepe made a mistake. Yes, they seem more regular than seasons past (but they're not, really.) but let's not forget that Pepe as well has seen lots of transition in the past couple of years. Since Xavi Valero left, he's had two different goalkeeping coaches and fuck knows how many different central defensive partnerships ahead of him. The ball dipped. Shit happens. Unlucky Pepe, move on.

- except we can't. In isolation, it's harsh on Downing to chastise him for missing a one on one at the beginning of a big clash away to the leaders against one of the best keepers in the league. With respect to his performances this season, it's shite. No one had confidence that Stewart was going to score. Stewart didn't have confidence that Stewart would score. After that chance, he pretty much spent the entire game advancing the ball 20-30 yards, turning back and passing it either to Enrique or one of the midfielders closest to him. Again, keeping possession is not a bad thing - I'm no advocate of POMO - but he's supposed to be giving us an attacking threat, suppling the ammunition for Carroll. I don't want to see our wide men with pass completion rates of 80%, that means they're not taking risks. If he's not shooting and he's not making incisive passes, what the fuck is the point in him? As for Dirk, well he played himself out of the first team in my opinion. Gave away the ball cheaply for the first, didn't really offer much in terms of energy and movement until he went off. Love him to bits but again, if he's not scoring and he's not pressing then it's hard to make an argument for him to be in the line up.

- we could really be challenging this season. It wouldn't have taken much. City aren't invincible, United have shown their frailties more than ever and Arsenal with Chelsea can't decide if they're in transition or not. Only Spurs have genuinely improved, irritatingly so, simply by being better against the small teams. I'm not saying we should be twatting City and United all over the shop. We have no problem in the big games, it's the run of the mill matches we struggle with. With all due respect to them, are we saying that the likes of Downing, Adam, Spearing and Henderson can't perform against middle of the table clubs? If you put them as a midfield at a smaller club, would they struggle to create clean cut chances? Swansea bossed us in periods at home. It doesn't seem to matter who we're up against, we can have the lion's share of possession but it doesn't make it 'dangerous' possession. We play our one-twos around the centre circle. It was, what, in the last ten minutes when Stevie and Maxi tried to link up on the edge of the box? That was the first time I could remember us really working the ball in that area. It just seems bizarre that it doesn't seem to have to do with the occasion. City aren't top of the league because they play amazing free flowing football. Silva was actually pretty anonymous for chunks of the game last night and we seemed to do well keeping our shape. Yes, that seems strange when we come away with a 3-0 defeat but that wasn't a 3-0. Two defensive fuck ups and a dive just flattered them. Mancini was horribly negative and has been lucky to take 4 points off us this season.

- ultimately, we learnt nothing from last night. Our problems against City, to me, are the same as we had against Norwich, Swansea, even QPR and Wolves. For the last couple of months, I've been saying that the likes of Downing really need to ask themselves some serious questions about their effort and performances. If we're to make at least 4th this season and stay on track for this 'three year plan' then I think it's time for Kenny to start finding some answers for them and take it out their hands.

I don't care too much about the fees that we paid for our midfield. I'm not arsed that Carroll was £35m because I believe he can come good. However, I can't accept a lack of effort and I don't like seeing Liverpool players hiding. Again, I'm being supercritical but when the logic behind signing a player is that they'll come straight in and do the business, when it doesn't happen what do you do?

[Something Else]

For me the game magnified two major issues we have. For years we have been crying out for the missing piece. Wondering why we do so well in the big games but throw it away in the little ones. This season the two major issues that have constantly hit me in the face are our lack of goals, and our lack of pacey play, both mentally and physically.

To tackle the first one, our lack of goals you can go at it two ways. You can blame certain individuals, whether it be Downings fault, or Suarez's fault or Carrolls, but the truth of the matter is, its a number of players faults. Liverpool will not become a top side who can win the league with the accusition of a striker who scores goals. A Robbie Fowler, and Ian Rush, of which I have stated for a long time we need. What we also need is goals from elsewhere. If you have a number of threats it then creates a problem for opposition defences.

If we had, and this again I quoted on my excellent twitter, weeks ago, a fit Gerrard to play with Suarez and Carroll with two other runners coming through who knew how to score goals, we would be one of the best teams on the planet. The assumes Gerrard can get the best out of Carroll while providing a driving force himself. In those three you have three major problems for a defence. Put one in the side on their own and its easy to sort. Man mark the guy and have a floater to double team when neccesary.

However with a number of threats, like City, United and Spurs, have means defenders have to make split second decisions and choice priorities while a game unfolds (this will link into my second point), this is prone to errors itself and is why United over the years get them lucky goals where defenders make errors and hand them a goal. They are getting men in the box who know how to score. In the early 90's and for over a decade it was far more common for a team to have a player who gets 30+ league goals, teams were built round these guys, but now its more important to have a 20 goal man and a few 10 goal a game men, adding more goals, but more diversity.

Liverpool right now miss that. Last night the only goalscorers we had on the pitch were Adam, who has rarely done it from set pieces for us, Kuyt, who is yet to score all season, and Carroll, who has not hit his form yet. Some would therefore argue we had none, with three on the bench, Gerrard, Bellamy, and Maxi.

its no suprise that when these guys are on the pitch more happens. Its not just their ability but its the affect they have on the opposition. When Kuyt was banging them in for fun, he was as dangerous without the ball running into space, taking one or two men with him. This space was then exploited, by Torres, Suarez, Gerrard, Maxi and others who would now have freedom. The thing is, the defender could not leave Kuyt knowing he would likely get a goal himself.

My second point, which ties in with the first is attacking with pace. This is where the chalkboard SMD posted comes in all too useful.

EDIT: Just seen this:



http://fourfourtwo.com/statszone/share.aspx?i=04FqH

We were undone last night, for the third City goal by a breakaway which was quick and direct, fans barely had time to berate what was another poorly taken free kick before they were seeing us concede a penalty. The best teams do this all the time. They counter, and go with such speed and decisiveness that things happen, panic is made and goals are common place. Spurs and City do it regularly and United have made it a major tool in their gameplay for, well since sky invented football.

This season, Liverpool have rarely done it. When they have we have generally done well from it, but the chalkboard above shows a glaring issue. Downing too many times will run with the ball, be goal side of his man, only to cut back, keeping hold of the ball, but going backwards, giving defenders time to regroup and reorganise and midfielders chance to get goal side.

Most teams in the premier league, when set up as two banks of four, or sometimes one of four and one of five, are very hard to break down. They are drilled and go into a preprogrammed and well rehearsed defensive routine. When this happens the attacking side must hope for a bit of magic from one of their own players, or a mistake from the opposition followed by fortune that it falls for you to bury the ball.

The thing is, teams dont make many errors, and when they do, we dont have the guys in the box to capitalise. The top sides do, and they fill the box (back to point one).

Now I wont accept the fact we dont counter because we had Carroll upfront and he is slow. He only has to run 1/2 the pitch in the time downing and other players would have to run over 2/3 rds and he is easily capable of that.

While we continue to do this, we continue to make life difficult for ourselves and in doing so hand empahsis over to the opposition. Of course there are times when there is nothing you can do, and you are playing with 10 defenders goal side hoping for a chance, but thats when you must fill the box, however the way we give up these breakaway chances, and turn back only to rebuild is really harming us.

[Cpt_Reina]

3-0 was no true reflection of that match. We weren't 3-0 bad and they weren't 3-0 good.

We controlled the match for the main part for me. We went next to nowhere with it, but we had it. The midfield were stable and steady but lacked any sort of drive or 'presence'. The sort of attributes perfectly exhibited by Yaya Toure as he ran clear before diving for their penno.

Said before the match that I wasn't sure what to do with Adam for this game as he was badly out of form and had gone off the boil dramatically without Lucas next to him. But he had also played all of his best football against the big teams this season (with the exception of Spurs). I wanted Gerrard in there from the start. He could've always come off in the 2nd half if he was tiring. Adam, again, was lacklustre. It was surely him that was tasked with providing the forward thrust from our midfield and to be frank, he didn't.

Ive spent a lot of time this season defending Downing. A player who in truth I never rated and never wanted. Remember having a discussion with Juan Loco about how average I thought he was. Up until the last few weeks he'd been made to look worst then he was by our appalling finishing. I maintain that. But he's not helping himself. He's become such a frustrating player to watch. He's got pace, I've seen it. He beat Richards in a race last night at one point. But he just doesnt have the drive, arrogance or swagger to utilise it. He's safe. And im getting a bit bored of 'safe' players.

Kuyt's another safe pair of hands. Or so we thought. His biggest contribution last night was giving the ball away in our own half for their 1st. Were it not for that I doubt i'd have even remembered he was on the pitch. His time is over imo, history will judge Dirk Kuyt as a successful signing, and rightly so. But he's not what we need going forward. Both figuratively and literally. He was far too far away from Carroll last night. At all times.

And speaking of the man. I thought Carroll again, didnt too badly. He copped an almighty amount of flack in the post match thread. As he does every time we lose, but I thought he did ok. Saw plenty of the green shoots that I have in many of his performances. Plenty of bringing others in to play. Closing down defenders. And whisper it quietly but....actually playing a bit of football. He was completely devoid of both support and supply last night. And up against one of the best defences in the league, and probably its best defender in Kompany. He did ok, much as he has done in many of his recent performances. People just dont seem to want to see it.

Everything back from Spearing was much as we have come to expect. Despite conceding 3 goals I dont think we were ever troubled. Reina made a goof, they scored a set piece and then were given a soft penalty. It happens. They scored all of their goals at exactly the right time(s). It was uncanny really.

Finally, Spearing deserves a mention. Im a big fan of the lad, and he only served to reaffirm that last night. Another performance where he did exactly what was asked of him. Harried, snapped and rushed the City midfield all night. He's assured and calm in possession and I really can't speak highly enough of him. He's never shown anything other then exactly the same whenever he's played imo. Solid, dependable and talented.

So yeah, in conclusion, we weren't 3-0 bad. But we weren't particularly good either.

But hey, City are a great team. And we were without Lucas, Suarez and Gerrard (for the main part). We done alright considering.

[sinnermichael]

Liverpool right now miss that. Last night the only goalscorers we had on the pitch were Adam, who has rarely done it from set pieces for us, Kuyt, who is yet to score all season, and Carroll, who has not hit his form yet. Some would therefore argue we had none, with three on the bench, Gerrard, Bellamy, and Maxi.

is exactly right.

the starting eleven last night have scored TEN goals between them in all competitions this season (carroll three, adam two, skrtel two, kuyt one, henderson one and johnson one). city have three players (ballotelli, dzeko, aguero) who've scored more than ten on their own.

[Rohit]

Very disappointing play from the attacking players yesterday. Echo SMDs thoughts on downing and kuyt. Dirk is pretty much on the end of his legs here I feel, he doesn't have the same energy or stamina and can no longer press and harry like he used too. So his short comings are exposed even more, giving the ball away where he did was just plain stupid as he had no idea what he was going to do when he had the ball and tried a stupid trick which gives aguero a clear shot a goal.

Where to start on stewart downing, no attacking threat what so ever, our fullbacks are a big threat then him and look more likely to create score. So what exactly is he offering to this current team? His delivery is very poor and he seems reluctant to take his man on, which is unacceptable considering he has pace and the one time he took on richards he took him to the cleaners. So why doesn't he do it more often and he slows the game so much by driving at his fullback only to turn back and pass the buck to glen or jose. The difference between craig and stewart is almost as clear as night and day. Bellamy knows he is a good player and knows how to take responsbility and use his pace while downing is in awe of his surroundings and is struggling to perform and take responsbility. I don't see kenny persisting with downing for too long now considering his lack of urgency and ability to take some responsbility.

Was surprised that adam played so high up the pitch in almost a supporting role to carroll.  He doesn't have the legs or close control to play that role and he lacks the positional play and ability to recycle the ball intelligently imo to play deeper. Without lucas for me we don't play enough through the centre and we really miss his clever incisive balls through the middle to the forward plays to eliminate the opposition midfield.

[Smug Cassandra]

I feel it's important for everyone at the club to realise a couple of home truths after the city game and half the season.

1 - the players we bought in were playing well for their clubs before they joined us. We continue to suffer from integrating players into LFC. Typically because they look out of their depth at a much bigger club. It says to me that we need to look at the criteria we use to buy players or taking a different approach to integration.

2 - the transfer policy makes no sense. Our best buys have been Torres, Suarez, Alonso, Garcia in recent years. All these players had unpredictability, creativity, and a strong mentality. We don't seem to buy more than one of players at any time. If we did we would achieve much much more. We won a European cup with Alonso and Garcia playing well in tandem. We probably need 3 or 4 at the club. Its so easy for teams to handle just one creative influence.

[LFClass]

Our midfield was utterly awful. Carroll may have put in some stinkers this season but he can't be faulted for a lack of service that shamed our summer transfers.

I agree. And I think that Carroll actually can play as the 'lone striker'. The most frustrating thing last night was that not one of our midfield players was willing make forward runs and get ahead of the ball once we reached the final third (which we did quite often). I'm as frustrated with Downing as anyone and his passing stats in the graph are horrible to look at, but last night, you could say that his passes are going backwards because that's where the red shirts are. It was a choice between getting it into Carroll with 4 blue shirts around him or find another red shirt and keep possession.

[stockdam]

I listened to the radio last night and a City fan said that it was the worst 3-0 win that he had seen and to some extent I agree with him. City did not do a lot but what they did was good and there lies the difference.

These stats are taken from a City forum....
(City stats first)

Goal Attempts
13-16

On Target
8-9

Corners
5-6

Fouls
13-7

Yellow Cards
1-2

Red Cards
1-0

% Possession
40-60

Hence, other than yellow cards, we had the better stats (ok and the goals).

I don't think we had 60% of the possession but we did have more than City had. We weren't over-run in midfield nor did they create a lot. They were kinda toothless for most of the match.

When it was 2-0 I could see us getting back into the match and after the sending off I was convinced we would win. The penalty was soft and that closed out the match.

Overall I think we controlled a lot of the game and looked fairly decent in defence. Pepe should have saved the first goal. The corner was difficult to defend against and I don't blame anyone for the 2nd goal.

Our biggest failing is a lack of people who can take risks.

Sorry........Downing.........always passes back to the full back. He needs to get past the defender and accept he may loose the ball at times but he's not in the team to pass back. Babel would do a much better job.

Adam........at times he was ok but on several occasions he was taking a rest. Once Henderson was in a good position and rather than burst into the box for a pass, Adam turned round and strolled back. We need our midfield to look for the attacking space and not always be defensive minded.

Gerrard looked tired and spent too long in our half.......he is the one who can burst past defenders into the box and create panic.

When we have the ball in the last third we need players who can run into space behind the defence and leave their markers behind. Adam, Henderson and Downing need to do this more often. Downing did it once in the first half and it resulted in a good chance.

We need Gerrard back to full fitness and we should use Maxi more as he has a bit of intelligence and can get into good positions.

We're stale and don't have leaders.

[stiffnuts]

3 points that seem to be a general theme.

We are impotent up front (never ever going to score with kuyt and carroll)
We lack creativity (though we play nice passes and hold the ball up well)
We seem to pass back or sideways when our momentum is taking us forwards (a lack of confidence and no one in the box)

[dumbo]

3 points that seem to be a general theme.

We are impotent up front (never ever going to score with kuyt and carroll)
We lack creativity (though we play nice passes and hold the ball up well)
We seem to pass back or sideways when our momentum is taking us forwards (a lack of confidence and no one in the box)

I think that sums it up perfectly - but note that even if Kuyt/Carroll were scoring goals, we'd still be in a mess.  A good striker averages 1 goal/2 games - so we'd win 1/2 matches?

In terms of the transfer dealings - anyone wondering whether the primary transfer policy is simply to sign players on lower wages?  Just asking...

[Aristotle]

Well, whatever it was, it hasn't worked.

I know I'm being supercritical but that's because of a number of things:

- this has not been sold to us as a long term project. As fans, ultimately we don't care and want to win every single game ever. We temper that with the realism that it's strictly not possible. It's sport, anything can happen on a given day but the best train to make sure that doesn't happen. Hand on heart, does it look like our players play with that attitude?

Apart from Bellamy and Enrique I don't think our signings have quite captured that phrase which has become an almost cliché. "For a player to be good enough to play for Liverpool, he must be prepared to run through a brick wall for me then come out fighting on the other side." I just don't see that with too many of our players, especially the newly aquired ones.

- we have shown that we can be very good. We've had a huge turnover of players in the last 18 months or so but since Kenny's come back, he's shown he can get them playing and with confidence. Why does a midfield of Lucas, Spearing and Meireles look like it has more steel than Lucas, Adam and Henderson? Why is it that without Lucas, not a single one of our midfielders - Gerrard excepted but he's nowhere near match fit - can step up even in a temporary capacity? Lucas has the consistency but no one's really stood up for a run of games to stake a claim in his absence. Spearing was unlucky to be sent off but as part of a midfield 3 he needs to stop throwing himself about. Against City, at times, there was still that gap in the middle of the park. With 3 in the middle, that's criminal in my opinion.

Really hard to disagree with that. For all that people cried out in agony about Raul, i.e. Meireles is a shithouse™, he was a "shithouse" in all the right places. He only hit a purple patch they cried out, but you can only do that when you show up in and around the box. For all of Charlie Adam's qualities, his awareness and positioning is quite shit. And the amount of times he was asking for the ball, when surrounded by City players only to be forced to give it back was astonishing. With a 3 man midfield, is as you say criminal not to be able to find space, with or without the ball.

- if we go back to the first point, it seems like we went into the season with Adam as Gerrard's understudy and Spearing as Lucas'. Given Gerrard's fitness record, was that wise? Did Kenny have the belief that Adam was good enough to be a semi-permanent replacement for Stevie or is this something the medical department neglected to fully brief him on?

It's one of the biggest beefs I had with letting Aquilani go "because we have Gerrard". Gerrard has not started 5 consecutive games in nearly a year now, he's getting older and there's only so many times one can come back from injuries. Like I've said, I love Gerrard on an almost erotic level but for me, he is the one player in the Liverpool squad which whould be replaced. For all the glory in the past, relying on him is wishful thinking and it showed in this game. He raised our game against Newcastle but against City he came on and he didn't so what happened. Everyone kept trying to find him, even in nearly impossible situations hoping he'd bail us out. Just because he can do it and has done it, doesn't mean he should have to. AS good as he is, and he can still win a match on his own it's almost like he intimidates his teammates more than the opponents players. When there are two possibilites, one of which includes passing to Gerrard and one is doing it yourself I'm struggling really hard to remember when the last time a Liverpool player took the risk himself instead of settling on the easy way out and pass the responsiblity on to Gerrard. And imo that's part of the problem we have with buying local talent. They worship the ground he walks on, and although understandably, we lack the players who think "Gerrard, who?" and do it by themselves and Downing, Henderson (as of yet) and to an extent Adam will not do that.

- for the last few seasons, the top of the table have been anything but consistent. Since that gut wrenching finale to 08/09, no team has really been invincible. It may seem bizarre to say that with City on 48 points with a goal difference of 40 but honestly, we could've beat them at home and stood toe to toe with them last night. That's 3 points dropped just based on what happened in each match. I don't think I need to go over our home form again but in terms of the overall story of this season, it fits quite well with the general theme. We shot ourselves in the foot. We don't give ourselves room for error. Fine, Pepe made a mistake. Yes, they seem more regular than seasons past (but they're not, really.) but let's not forget that Pepe as well has seen lots of transition in the past couple of years. Since Xavi Valero left, he's had two different goalkeeping coaches and fuck knows how many different central defensive partnerships ahead of him. The ball dipped. Shit happens. Unlucky Pepe, move on.

Kinda hit it home there. No team has been constantly looked unbeatable. I mean even City's 1-6 win and the Mancs winning 8-2, they looked far less impressive than in other games.

As for Pepe making mistakes, shit happens but we seem to be devloping a fixation on dwelling on past mistakes.

- except we can't. In isolation, it's harsh on Downing to chastise him for missing a one on one at the beginning of a big clash away to the leaders against one of the best keepers in the league. With respect to his performances this season, it's shite. No one had confidence that Stewart was going to score. Stewart didn't have confidence that Stewart would score. After that chance, he pretty much spent the entire game advancing the ball 20-30 yards, turning back and passing it either to Enrique or one of the midfielders closest to him. Again, keeping possession is not a bad thing - I'm no advocate of POMO - but he's supposed to be giving us an attacking threat, suppling the ammunition for Carroll. I don't want to see our wide men with pass completion rates of 80%, that means they're not taking risks. If he's not shooting and he's not making incisive passes, what the fuck is the point in him? As for Dirk, well he played himself out of the first team in my opinion. Gave away the ball cheaply for the first, didn't really offer much in terms of energy and movement until he went off. Love him to bits but again, if he's not scoring and he's not pressing then it's hard to make an argument for him to be in the line up.

I felt exactly the same thing. "WHAT. A. PASS! Ohh shite it's Downing." I've said it time and time again. Downing is a good player, on his day he can be a great one. But he's a player to get you from 1-0 to 2-0 he's not the player who gets you from 0-1 to 2-1. To butcher the Shankly quote I had earlier. I get the feeling that if you asked Downing if he'd run through a brick wall for you, his answer would be "but won't that hurt?"

And Kuyt. Well what can you say. I can't really put my finger on it, but whatever it is it's horribly wrong. He's not a right winger, nevertheless a wide midfielder which seems to be his role in the current team. He's taken over Meireles's role, but being a completely different player so it just fails. He's always been an in your face player. He will take on a player 10 times and fail 10 times, but he'll still strip the full back of the ball and give you an advantage inside their own third. He can't do that when he's holding a line 20-25 yards from the box. And as I said a few weeks ago. I have a lot of time for him, but sentiments be damned either use him how he benefits the team or get rid.

- we could really be challenging this season. It wouldn't have taken much. City aren't invincible, United have shown their frailties more than ever and Arsenal with Chelsea can't decide if they're in transition or not. Only Spurs have genuinely improved, irritatingly so, simply by being better against the small teams. I'm not saying we should be twatting City and United all over the shop. We have no problem in the big games, it's the run of the mill matches we struggle with. With all due respect to them, are we saying that the likes of Downing, Adam, Spearing and Henderson can't perform against middle of the table clubs? If you put them as a midfield at a smaller club, would they struggle to create clean cut chances? Swansea bossed us in periods at home. It doesn't seem to matter who we're up against, we can have the lion's share of possession but it doesn't make it 'dangerous' possession. We play our one-twos around the centre circle. It was, what, in the last ten minutes when Stevie and Maxi tried to link up on the edge of the box? That was the first time I could remember us really working the ball in that area. It just seems bizarre that it doesn't seem to have to do with the occasion. City aren't top of the league because they play amazing free flowing football. Silva was actually pretty anonymous for chunks of the game last night and we seemed to do well keeping our shape. Yes, that seems strange when we come away with a 3-0 defeat but that wasn't a 3-0. Two defensive fuck ups and a dive just flattered them. Mancini was horribly negative and has been lucky to take 4 points off us this season.

That's another point I raised in the summer. We're lacking clear cut winners. For all the, alleged, benefits of buying locally when you buy from mid-table and relegation fodder teams you are signing players constantly used to surviving being the only purpose in life. You don't get the alpha dog mentality from these type of players until after a long time. Which is why Suarez hit the ground running. With Ajax and with Uruguay he was always playing to win in teams playing to win. And it's something we're severly lacking. An arrogance coming from belief that not we not only can win every game we play, but it's natural. As much as we have them there's no denying that regardless of the team they put out they go onto the pitch with 3 points in hand, and it's only a matter of formality claiming them.

- ultimately, we learnt nothing from last night. Our problems against City, to me, are the same as we had against Norwich, Swansea, even QPR and Wolves. For the last couple of months, I've been saying that the likes of Downing really need to ask themselves some serious questions about their effort and performances. If we're to make at least 4th this season and stay on track for this 'three year plan' then I think it's time for Kenny to start finding some answers for them and take it out their hands.

I don't care too much about the fees that we paid for our midfield. I'm not arsed that Carroll was £35m because I believe he can come good. However, I can't accept a lack of effort and I don't like seeing Liverpool players hiding. Again, I'm being supercritical but when the logic behind signing a player is that they'll come straight in and do the business, when it doesn't happen what do you do?

That's the biggest worry for me too. I had always rationalised buying these players over the "FM fantasy" ones on the basis that they'd go all out for Kenny or die trying. And seeing them hang their heads in despair hurts me more than any lost 3 points.

[Crosby Nick]

First of all, I know a lot of people weren’t happy with the line up last night but for various reasons we were missing players who could have made a difference. No Lucas is obviously a big blow in a game like this, we could have delayed the Suarez ban but once we decided not to appeal it it made sense just to get it out of the way. Bellamy can’t play two games back to back it seems and Gerrard is clearly being nursed back, which given his previous ailments is sensible in the longterm. Because of that I think Downing had to play to give us a modicum of pace on the break. You could make a convincing case for Maxi over Dirk but otherwise our hands were tied really.

This current midfield is solid but not world beating. What can we do about it? One way or another we have lost the world class abilities of Alonso, Mascherano, Lucas and Gerrard (for this game) in the last couple of years, of course we’re going to struggle against one of the best teams in the league at times. Spearing did well I thought and has surprised me with his ability to fit in and look the part at this level. Better players than him will be bossed by Yaya Toure and the rest of City’s midfield.

As for City, I didn’t think they were great but they were very solid. For all the ball we had, we didn’t really get in behind them and they broke up our attacks easily enough and broke quickly at times. Someone mentioned elsewhere and I agreed that they reminded me a little of Mourinho era Chelsea. Not great to watch but very effective.

In terms of where we go from here and how to fix some of our current faults I don’t know. Do we need another midfield option? Possibly, although with Gerrard back to fitness soon maybe not. Would a poacher sort us out, when games like last night show we sometimes struggle to create clear chances? Therefore do we need another winger/creative option? All of the above? Not really sure myself.

[the 92A]

I listened to the radio last night and a City fan said that it was the worst 3-0 win that he had seen and to some extent I agree with him. City did not do a lot but what they did was good and there lies the difference.

These stats are taken from a City forum....
(City stats first)

Goal Attempts
13-16

On Target
8-9

Corners
5-6

Fouls
13-7

Yellow Cards
1-2

Red Cards
1-0

% Possession
40-60

Hence, other than yellow cards, we had the better stats (ok and the goals).


Overall I think we controlled a lot of the game and looked fairly decent in defence. Pepe should have saved the first goal. The corner was difficult to defend against and I don't blame anyone for the 2nd goal

Not a day for absolutes on either side. Stockdam shows with statistics what I saw with my eyes, in terms of play we were better and don't underestimate how good you need to be to do this to City, they weren't happy to let us have possession, we took possession, granted we struggle to find an outlet  but they dictated little. Mancini knows that very few clubs are capable of doing that to City, that we are, shows how good we are as a unit. If that was a one off I'd be happy as Larry, despite the result, but it's not as if we haven't seen it before and you can see we are struggling at the moment to turn possession into victories. Centre midfield we've got henderson (still learning) with Adam and Spearing and with respect that's not a world class midfield, a decent midfield but it doesn't contain someone who can truly dictate play but without injuries both Gerrard and Lucas would expect to play and suddenly you've got the right balance. a world class midfield to go with that defence.
 
 To the sides and up front Downing is struggling imposing himself he looks like a player playing within himself, Kuyt is off form and Carroll is struggling to make the transition required to playing in a team where everything doesn't go through him, whether he can do that we'll see the jury's still out, world class teams aren't made over night and there's still a way to go before we're in that catagory but it's not totally a pipedream either, dalglish and Clarke will be working on the solutions to are problems because their assesment of last night won't be unaware of our problems and they'll be privately alot more concerned than we are.

[Gnurglan]

We lost to a better side, though I think we handed out gifts. Two set pieces and a mistake. Reina should have saved the first and I was disappointed with the way we went from attack to a penalty for them for the third. Even the second one felt soft. I think we could have stayed more alert, but at least it was a good header. Still, it was no coincidence they scored three and we didn't. Because while we passed the ball around well, we couldn't threaten them. Just about a goal/game for us tells us where our fundamental problem is.

It's fair to say that Lucas, Gerrard and Suarez would have improved our side. Maybe our lack of cutting edge wasn't a true reflection of where we stand. If we think about the game vs City. But it's been like this all season.

I was surprised and to be honest, pleased yet annoyed, at the injection of life and pace Bellamy and Gerrard's substitutions gave us. Pleased because we needed it, but annoyed because where was it before then?

That's a good summary for me.

That we get to play them again next week, I reckon it's a good thing. I doubt we'll hand out the same gifts defensively, so I expect a more even scoreline. Include Gerrard and Bellamy (and Maxi) from the start then and we have players who can cause some problems for them. With those three, I'd be quite positive about our chances. Without them, not so much.

[djschembri]

First of all, despite what anyone's opinions were prior to half time, we were never likely going to win, or even draw this game.

Man City had won 14 games in a row at home, and we started without 4 very good players (Lucas, Suarez, Gerrard and on recent form Bellamy). From the moment we conceded that sloppy first goal, it was as good as over.

Although we didn't deserve to lose 3-0, we never looked like scoring at all. Read a stat were we had made double the amount of passes that Man City did. Man City were very direct, getting the balls up to their front two very quickly. Us, on the other hand, were too laboured in possession.

In the second half, with Man City 2 up, they sat back and absorbed all our attacks, and they were barely even troubled. For all our possession and passing, we seemed to lack ideas, cohesion and a plan of attack. This season we have seen an increased focus on attacking down the wings, yet Bellamy, Downing and Kuyt delivered absolutely nothing at all. That can be attributed to a couple of reasons.

First of all, Henderson, Adam and Spearing offered no attacking threat whatsoever. No one made forward runs from deep, and the support offered to Carroll was minimal. Hence, we never managed to stretch the play, and open up spaces for our wide men to exploit. When the ball arrived at the feet of Downing/Bellamy/Kuyt, they were marked and blocked off. Our full backs rarely looked to go beyond the winger, hence we basically had our winger and full back in the same zone, offering no danger at all to the defence.

Our wide men would look to work some intricate play, and lose it. At the end of the game we just ended up throwing balls into the box Stoke style, hoping that Carroll would get onto the end of one of them. All in all, very very poor attacking play.

I'm all for playing pleasing football, with lots of passing. But ultimately there has to be an end product, and this season there has constantly been a lack of end product. Our build up is slow, our tempo is non existant. With Suarez banned for 8 matches now, we don't even have his abilities to fashion chances out of nothing. Carroll, on this form, looks unlikely to make something out of the most perfect balls, so asking and expecting him to fashion chances for himself and others is out of the question.

This game was our 24th game of the season, and not only has our attacking play not improved from the initial games, but it has regressed. With Suarez out and Lucas out long term, Gerrard unfit and Bellamy only able to play one game a week, things are not looking good.

EDIT: and just in case it happens, Darren Bent is not the solution to our problems. In fact, he will only add to the overpriced/underdelivering/average British players we have bought in the last 12 months.

[The China Fox]

With our four best players respectively banned, injured, not fully fit, and dropping a bollock, we weren't likely to win this game. Having said that a 3-0 scoreline greatly flattered them. The three goals were gifted to them through individual errors or (in the case of the pen) questionable ref decisions. We dominated play for most of the match.

And yet, we remain completely toothless in the final third, whereas City were ruthless. We had little penetration, we posed no hard questions for Kompany and Hart, who were both excellent, to answer. Our midfield was one-paced and lethargic for the majority of the match, which contributed to the lack of potency in attack.

It could have been very different if Downing had just buried that one-on-one. Yet, again, he has no goals or assists to his name, and his confidence seems to have taken a hit as a result. I don't know what we can do about it, signing a striker who can score would be a good start but his luck needs to turn soon.

Kuyt is done, unfortunately, much as I love him. I don't remember him being this bad even when he's been on runs of not scoring in previous seasons. His famed work rate is not in evidence (in fairness, probably partly due to a lack of match fitness) and he still is the weak link where our attacks break down. Hopefully we can still fetch a decent sum for him.

On the positive side...our defense was pretty good on the whole...

Our inability to break down teams was the main, recurring, theme to take from the game. We didn't look likely to score, even after Gerrard came on. I think our main priorities this transfer window are a direct, pacy winger and someone who can score, otherwise I fear that we will keep being unable to break down solid teams for the rest of the season.

[Roy of the rovers]

The result doesn't much matter, but the manner of defeat does.

Not that it was a particularly poor performance, but we've looked blunt / lacking penetration all season, and this is another example. Downing's miss didn't help, but his general passing lacks any incision in the final third.

I try to avoid saying things like this, but without another striker or goal-scoring winger / wide forward, we won't make 4th this season.

[Milly]

I don't wanna see Dirk play for us again to be honest, and Downing sheesh. I think he was a worse signing than Carroll at least Carroll has some excuse that he's getting fuck all service, Downing on the other hand is so one dimensional its untrue...

[ArcticRed]

The saving grace, for me, is that we weren't by any means "outplayed", and the final scoreline certainly did flatter City to a certain extent.
More worrying, though, is our continuing inability to convert chances... seemingly whoever is on the pitch on any given day.
Bar one fluke goal, a bit of lax marking and a peno the to my eyes (and I might be wrong) looked rather cheap compared to some of what has been allowed throughout the season, City didn't really offer much. Even before they went one man down and could concentrate on defending.
As for the first goal, that sure was as flukey one as I've ever seen. Now, maybe Pepe could've done better, but that ball dipped massively at the end, and I heard some mention in the post match talks yesterday that it was swapped immediately after.
Still... it was always gonna be a tough match... and I don't believe anyone expected much more than a point, at best, on their turf. And it surely wasn't gonna happen in the season when the ball just refuses to bounce our way. At all.

So... onwards and upwards. Still lots to play for this season... and fourth still isn't out of reach. Now for the blueshite to help us out slightly tomorrow too, so Spurs don't run too far away

[Bob Loblaw]

Downing, Kuyt and Carroll were our three main attacking players, i mean, what were we expecting really?

[has gone odd]

understandable people are upset at the result, could have cemented us in 4th spot with other results going our way.

to that end, our season hasnt been as bad as it appears, sure we look at some of our results and think we are hopeless but its still a huge improvement on last year. will have to see where we end up and hope other clubs battling for 3rd and 4th slip up as they have proven to do in recent weeks, its not just us getting humped by the city or fulhams of this world.

if one thing is still glaringly obvious after that game its the lack of a goal scorer. i will be sorely disappointed if we dont splash some cash on a proven quality striker in january. our midfield looks better with gerrard back but its risky not to strengthen that area, in particular downing is right out of sorts this season.

henderson started the game really well and has a bright future at liverpool, it was one of, or more acurately the only plus point of the night. will forget this game and dream of goals in the next!

[leivapool]

OK, I'm gonna focus on the good things from the Man City game mainly , yep, there were some!!  I dislike the abuse I always get for giving my opinion of Adam so shan't be mentioning Adam, but then I'm focusing on the positives 

Henderson - I love him, well y'know what I mean.  He's going to be seen as a bargain in the not too distant future.  Great engine, technique, athleticism, and a slowly increasing amount of confidence that has enabled him to play two slide rule passes in the last two games, one led to a goal, one should have.  Will hopefully be part of a very strong midfield next season alongside Lucas.

Spearing - Never let's anyone down does Jay.  Has improved his understanding of what to do without the ball no end recently.  Still think he works best with Lucas alongside him, but can certainly hold his head high.  Just needs to watch his tackling and stay on his feet a bit more.

Carroll - Yep he's a positive for me.  Big Andy spent the whole 90 mins getting shit/non-existant service and when he did finally get scraps to fight over he was accompanied by Toure and Kompany, very decent CB's.  Many times during the match he was the only player in the box and surrounded by up to 5 blue shirts.  I'm genuinely not sure what some people expect of this lad.  We're not playing to his strengths, his service is shocking, he's up against 2 great CB's  and he gets slated.  I thought he did well all things considered.

Maxi - I know he was hardly on the pitch,   but he was the only player on the night who was at least trying to anticipate the rebounds in the penalty box.  Should play more to give us a different option when we attack apart from hammer down the wings, and then stop because their is no-one in the middle.  Because this is what we do isn't it?  The CM's pass out wide, Enrique, Johnson, Downing and Bellamy hammer it down the wing, and then realise that there's only big Andy in the box to cross to.  We then either cut it back to our central midfielders and repeat, or we cross badly to Carroll, or we cross and don't even beat the first man.  Our atacking play lacks guile and invention, and we are desperately missing some creative players.  Before Gerrard, Maxi and Bellamy came on there was not a single creative player on the pitch in red.

Hopefully this transfer window we will buy a creative midfielder with excellent passing and technique, and  a Fowler/Rush style CF.

[LiverBirdKop]

Some excellent posts by the away and everything I wanted to touch on has already been said. All I'd like to add is we need players who are not one-dimensional. We need a couple of players capable of keeping defenders guessing because right now, everyone's pretty predictable and one-dimensional sans Suarez and to a lesser extent Stevie.

[LiverBirdKop]

Downing, Kuyt and Carroll were our three main attacking players, i mean, what were we expecting really?

And it still amazes me how we're still able to create so many chances in most games. Makes me think we're only 2 or 3 top players away from becoming a very good team. And by top players I mean one level above Downing, Adam and Carroll.

[roym]

i think a big issue is how we started the season. Rather than continuing with the team that finished so strongly last year, we went ahead and tried to integrate all of the newbies immediately. Big problem is that we end up with no real leaders on the pitch and a bunch of players who have never experienced the pressure of playing for a club like ours.  while some players wanted out, and others were deemed unnecessary, i think the revolution that we signed up for this season will take much longer then to take shape, because all these players still have to learn the liverpool way, how to respond to pressure particularly from playing at home, and understanding that at LFC players always play to win

[stockdam]

.........what I saw with my eyes, in terms of play we were better and don't underestimate how good you need to be to do this to City, they weren't happy to let us have possession, we took possession, granted we struggle to find an outlet  but they dictated little. Mancini knows that very few clubs are capable of doing that to City, that we are, shows how good we are as a unit.

This is what I'd like to take out of a disappointing scoreline. We did match City and pin them back for long periods. They hardly did much that really worried us (other than score). On another day, Downing would have scored and I think the result may have gone our way. I'm sugar-coating over our lack of penetration but not many teams have outplayed City (as we did at Anfield) and also dominated possession (at their ground).

We have a very strong defence that is playing well. We have Gerrard coming back. Unfortunately we miss Lucas and Suarez. Add a couple of good signings in January and we might step up a level.

Remember City for all their money didn't become a good team overnight (it maybe took 4 years).

I'm also hoping that Carroll finds some form soon.

[Nazi Dickhead]

In my opinion….

Adam, Downing & Kuyt should not be any where near our starting 11. They literally add nothing to our game, they all just seem to jog around the pitch putting in bad passes, going forward 10 yards and then going back again and just generally looking lost. A bit more analysis into my opinion, stop reading now if your already gritting your teeth.
Kuyt’s recent performances just have not been good enough and although the man has been a great servant to the club over the past years, he is starting to effect the team in a negative way. It pains me too say but much like Carra he is past it now and needs to be a bench figure. Now I have my favourite under achiever out of the way ….

I have never been a fan of Charlie Adam, I thought he was overrated and stood out because he was in a lower side in Blackpool. And since his arrival bar one or two decent games I have not been proved otherwise. He will sometimes pull a decent ball or two out the bag but the rest of the time is spent giving it away. He has no defensive attributes at all other than just foaling people and putting unneeded pressure on the defence. This was covered up because of the brilliant support he had in Lucas, now that’s missing his flaws are such a smack in the face I have to turn away whenever the ball goes near him.

Last but not least Mr. (or is that Mrs?) Downing, I say this because this man/woman has no visible testicles to speak of. He will jump out of the way of every challenge he can, every aerial battle he will lose, every shot or cross is weak, every run forward is aimless. His constant use of his left foot makes it so obvious what he will do that he ends up making no progress at all. I have defended Downing recently because I do feel he is lacking in confidence, however I don’t feel like he is not doing enough to try and turn that around. He is so frustrating to watch because he has ability but I’m starting to wonder when or if he will ever use that again in a Liverpool shirt.

Now for some positives…

Andy Carroll is the centre of every negative sentence that comes from an outsiders and many insiders lips. What a waste of money right? Wrong. Like Kenny I am extremely defensive towards Andy because I think he will come good. Tonight against City I thought he did everything he could with what he was given, I don’t really remember one good ball into him tonight yet he chased and chased and caused the very strong City back four some problems. The guy wont start scoring until other players start delivering, at the moment this just is not happening,

I don’t think Henderson get’s as much attention from people as he deserves (probably a good thing considering). This guy is improving every game. I can start to see some Steven Gerrard rubbing of on him. He must be relishing learning from the best. Very promising future player.

Other positives, Gerrard getting more game time.

Overall tonight I think the score line is a little harsh on us. That was not a penalty at all. Individual mistakes and performances cost us tonight unfortunately, however we are still in a decent enough position to make a strong campaign for forth for the rest of our season. We need some additions in January, some proven goal scorers because with are far from clinical in front of goal.

[Juanyboy]

a mistake
a set piece (corner)
a penalty

things which have plagued us in the past, and whilst (apart from the second goal) I don't think these are issues that are back to plague us again, it goes to show that they were silly goals to concede, things which thankfully can be sorted out in training - the conceding from corners thing though has been going on for years, but it was a blinding header though, backing away from goal.

We didn't have any cutting edge up front which was a shame to see (but not suprising and a poinw chi I'm sure the management will work on during this transfer window) but we kept posession and played some good football I thought + showed good heart.

It's just a shame that the three points mentioned above arent anything new but paradoxically shows that they weren't that much better than us, only more clinical.

[exiledintheUSA]

I think all the off-the-field stuff over the past couple of days took it's toll on the lads last night, something seem to be missing from the play and I am pretty sure that it was Manchester City taking the sting out of us.  All in all, we could have played until Friday and not scored, we looked very toothless in attack and thats not a crack at Andy Carroll, everyone of the forward thinking players seemed to have an off-night.  Our final ball is abysmal and last night was no exception, some of the ball Gerrard flung in during the Newcastle game were exactly the type of service AC needs up top.......more of that is needed and I think less of Downing for a while - he just seems to run out of ideas too quickly, as a whole the team seems to lack a plan b or c but downing appears to have no idea what plan a is either.