Topic: RAWK Round Table LFC 4-0 EFC

[Mr Dilkington]

Brilliant that!

Was a bit worried by our team selection tonight, but that was put to rest almost immediately given how we started. Rodgers talked about controlling the spaces better, and we did that much better.

I think the crucial thing here was we were better able to make up for key personnel losses than they were. No Coleman or Distin killed them. We were without arguably our first choice back four, but our replacements fared much better. I think the young lad Stones is actually a really promising defender, but a right back he is not. Particularly given he was facing up to Suarez and Sturridge a lot of the time. Alcaraz is just an incredibly ponderous defender, and he in turn made Jagielka look incredibly nervy and mistake ridden. The only two Ev players to come out with any real credit were Barkley and Mirallas. Barkley wasn't outstanding or anything, but given he's been injured, I thought he at least tried to spark things and looked a threat with his long range shooting. Mirallas is just a properly good wide player, he can play equally well off either flank, has a good turn of pace, and has a goal in him too. He's kinda like a bargain bucket Eden Hazard.

Our lot: Flanagan continues his somewhat unbelievable improvement with another really assured performance. Committed, tidy on the ball, aware in defence, and Scouse. I know it won't go down well, but when I watch him play, I just think 'Liverpool's Gary Neville'. Whether he can have the longevity or the International career that Neville had is another question, but he's very much cut from that cloth. He knows his limitations, but he's solid, and one any manager would be happy to put their trust in.

Talking of improvements... the wee fella in the number 10 jersey was a bit alright. Given his underpar form so far this season, tonight was a performance of great quality, as well as fantastic character. To go into a derby in poor form, playing a slightly different role than usual, and to turn in that performance? Brilliant. You can usually tell within 5 minutes whether Pip is going to have a good game or not. Sometimes everything he does looks forced and clunky, but tonight everything was fluent and natural. A wonderful player. Can anyone think of another player in the League (bar Suarez) who can turn quite so quickly. I'm sure his hips move 360!

Talking of improvements... Raheem Sterling. He's gone from overrated Aaron Lennon wannabe post Hull to most talented youngster in the country now. I never subscribed to the former opinion - it was just a case of a young player not getting many minutes and then being thrown back in and expected to be great straight away. He's now showing what he can do, because he's getting regular game time, and not only that, he's becoming a crucial player. He's got everything to make it to the top.

There was a guy playing in our midfield who impressed me too. I haven't really watched any of our games since about 97, just read things on the internet. The number 8, who is by all accounts a complete liability, was by some miracle the man of the match. It's obviously a fluke, because the guy can't play in centre midfield. Everyone says so. To see him head the opener in was delightful and surprising in equal measure. The interceptions too! How a man with no discipline or 'tactical' understanding of the game could consistently find himself in the right areas of the pitch to break the game up and distribute astutely was quite amazing. And why was he the captain? I've read that he's had a manager sacked before, so quite how the club sees it appropriate to give him the captaincy is beyond me. A vacuum of leadership that lad. Still... an incredible performance. If I didn't know any better I'd say he was the greatest fucking player I've ever seen pull on the red shirt.

Sturridge continues to do things that make you shake your head in disbelief. The lad is just a freak. English football doesn't produce players like him. The second goal was absurd for many reasons, but the most impressive thing was how early he made up his mind, and how cool he remained. Howard rushing out, Everton defenders haring back, the crowds roar of expectation; and he just waits, and waits, and waits, and then produces the most delicate finish to effectively finish the game. Boss.

[royhendo]

It was bonkers. I honestly think that had Sturridge rolled that penalty into the corner, they were on the end of an unprecedented hiding. They just didn't have the tools at the back to deal with us on the break. When I saw the team selection I was as nervous as hell, based on the midfield - that looked like it might be a worry - but seeing Alcaraz there was the hope, and we weren't to realise that Stones wasn't going to cut it out wide. They were nice and tidy on the ball, and they had a wee edge through Barkley and Mirallas as Dilks says, but ultimately we worked hard at our shape, and Coutinho and Gerrard both showed real tactical savvy at times I thought. They were both brilliant. Again, as Dilks says, Gerrard really did put in a proper shift deeper. We're not so bad when we can sit in a compact block though - it's when we're pushing on to teams and they break against us at pace that he needs to learn a few tricks, isn't it?

That header was a massive moment - right in front of their fans too. It shoved it right up them after they'd started to establish a foothold. And then their heads just went. I swear, if that penalty had gone in, you'd have seen 7 or 8.

Magnificent.

[royhendo]

This was nice.

Will repost this in the round table tomorrow, but just so I don't lose it:

I'm no tactical expert, but there a few things I wanted to point out, both because they were great on the day, and are very encouraging for our future goal of challenging for the PL and Champions League.

We lined up like this:



Coutinho in the "Iniesta" role

I'm pretty sure this was the first time Coutinho has ever played as a true central midfielder for us. Even against Bournemouth he was a clear #10 rather than a third CM. It was something I'd wanted to see tried for a long time, but didn't really think he was up to defensively and worried that his passing would be too "immediate" (i.e. looking for the killer pass) for the role. He really proved that wrong today.

Now, I know it's a bit silly to call it the "Iniesta" role, when a) Phil isn't anywhere near that level yet and b) that was about as un-Barca-like a performance as you're likely to see from a dominant team. Let me explain why I think it's relevant, though. I've been saying for a couple of weeks that Coutinho should "embrace his inner Iniesta." that is, accept that he is a creator, someone who creates space for others rather than a goal scorer. Now, I'm not saying Coutinho could never become a goal scorer (and Iniesta scores goals when it's needed of him for Spain), but we need Coutinho to knit the play and keep it moving, not take a million shots from outside the box. That's why Iniesta is such a perfect model: he's an incredible dribbler and passer, but shoots less than once per game. Phil, in contrast, shoots more than Neymar! So it was very, very encouraging to see him less concerned with getting on the score sheet today, and more concerned with playing those brilliant passes he's capable of.

What was maybe even more interesting, however, was the other way he imitated Iniesta. I can't think of another performance where Phil was so calm, and so willing to play the simple ball into space when the killer ball wasn't on. He over and over again used his incredible touch and dribbling skills to weave through the EFC team in transition, looked for the assist, and when it wasn't there, passed the ball off to the man in space. It was wonderful, and really knit the team together in a way that usually doesn't happen for us.

Compare his performance today with his other best performance, the game against Newcastle last year. He was a genius in that game, we can all agree. And yet it was a very different kind of genius. He had a lot of trouble making the ball stick--especially during the period at the start of the second half when NUFC were in the ascendancy--and kept trying flicks, tricks and killers passes that weren't always coming off. He was so good that he punished them anyway, and it was a clinical performance, but today IMO was much more mature, and much more encouraging. This was the Coutinho we want playing against the big boys. There's plenty of number 10s who do well against the dross of the league and disappear in big games. Coutinho had been one so far. There's nothing wrong with that, but he showed today he's capable of much more. (And I haven't even mentioned his actual assist or his pressing yet!)

Sturridge/Suarez Out Wide

Rodgers has seemed to resist pushing one of our strikers wide since the game at the Emirates last year. Suarez did well defensively in that game, but really struggled to be an influence going forward, and seriously tired toward the end. Until Bournemouth, I don't think one of them had started wide since. (Unless the Reading game was after, but that didn't really work either!)

3-5-2 or 4-4-2 seemed the only way to get both in the team, and when you've got 2 of the 5 best strikers in the league, you can't leave one out. Now, I have no problems with either formation per se, but I do with the way we'd played them in big games. Both strikers would press, but they would basically stay high up the pitch when we got into shape and not contribute to the defense or midfield (the game at the Emirates this year was the worst example). Compare it to the way Costa and Villa drop into midfield for Atletico. It's totally annoying when people dismiss the 4-4-2 as inherently outdated, but the way we were playing it was just never going to fly at the very top level without a Toure/Fernandinho-type midfield, which we all know we don't have.

That's why it was so encouraging to see the 4-3-3 work so well yesterday. It was a particularly good decision to have the two of them rotate positions naturally, as neither one got overly tired or frustrated from tracking back. Obviously, it helped a lot that Stones was at RB instead of Coleman, but it really worked brilliantly. They both helped out a lot defensively, and were ready to break past Stones on the counter. Superb.

Gerrard at DM

I'm sure others will write plenty about this. But let's say this: We just played the biggest match we've played under Rodgers. We played it without 4 of our 5 top defenders and without our top 2 defensive midfielders. We deliberately sat back and let a team with the best 20 year old in the division playing #10 have as much of the ball as they wanted. Gerrard played defensive midfielder--not Regista, not the Pirlo-role, straight-up defensive midfielder--and he was fucking boss.

Oh, and Brendan Rodgers

It's been clear for a while, but not only is Rodgers excellent at his job, but he's really not the manager we thought we were getting. We were sold a Guardiola, instead we got a Ferguson.

He was sold (including by himself) as a precocious, brilliant idealogue who would bring "death by football" and "tiki-taka" to Liverpool. Instead, he's been the most adaptable manager in the league--happy to play virtually any formation and any style if he thinks it suits the players and the game--and has most stood out as someone who gets the best out of talented players. Look at Sturridge's interview after the game. You can just tell how much respect he has for Rodgers, and how important it was to him to tell everyone he wasn't disrespecting his manager when he was upset.

Rodgers has helped Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling, Henderson, Flanagan, Allen--yes, Allen, who was nothing before Rodgers and is now quietly one of the best midfielders in the league on the defensive side of the ball--hell, even Leon Britton and, of course, Luis Suarez take their games to an entire other level.

We've got a special manager. Let's hold on to him.

[Hazell]

ElstonGunn's post is very good and the word adaptable stood out to me too. I was thinking about it yesterday during the match. We were 4-0 up and cruising with Everton having dominated the ball for a lot of the game and it was clear that Rodgers had adapted his tactics - IMO partly due to the personnel we had available and partly due to the opposition - and it worked brilliantly. The match started evenly, if anyone was on top, it was us and Sterling had already gone through and should have scored before Gerrard's header. After that, the midfield dropped deeper with both Gerrard and Henderson rarely straying deep into Everton's half. Not surprised with Gerrard in that respect but it's not Henderson's natural game but he played it well. We knew Martinez likes his Everton side to keep the ball but they offered very little in terms of penetration and that was due to Rodgers getting his tactics spot on. Of course, that helped us counter so effectively as well and two of the best strikers in the league supported by Sterling and Coutinho (his best game of the season I think for a lot of the reasons ElstonGunn describes) who didn't shirk when we didn't have the ball either. Anyway, the match was pleasing for many other reasons as well but Rodgers got criticised (rightly in some respects) for getting it wrong against Villa and he should also rightly be praised for getting it so right against Everton.

[BabuYagu]

A couple of things I wanted to mention. Everton seem to be getting off easy based on the fact that they were without key players Distin & Coleman. That needs to be flipped right on it's head though. Maybe you are ONLY where you are as you have been exceptionally lucky with injuries so far.

The one thing I always thought of Martinez is that he struggled to build a solid platform for his team to play for. He was forever messing around with his defence trying to get it right and his sides ended up shipping a LOT of goals. At Everton he walked into a job where the platform was built he just needed to get the players playing on it. Which he did. Now what happens when parts of the platform need replacing... well maybe we are answering that right now because that was a shambles. Remember that out of that backline Alcatraz is his man.... the guy he brought over from Wigan.... and the drop off in quality between him and Jagielka or Distin was huge. Then again was it tactical naivity on Martinez's part to play a high line? How many times was Stones struggling to catch Sturridge, Sterling in behind Baines or Alcatraz chasing instead of defending? You would think managers would watch AVB's pink slip game and try to avoid those same mistakes. Evidently not.

As for his "makeshift" defence last night. He was without his first choice RB & CB only. We were without both first choice full backs, and one (I would say both) of our first choice center backs. Oh, and the human shield of Lucas infront of them and his usual replacement, Allen. However we don't get to make excuses. If we defend badly it's because we bought badly. Or signed the wrong players. Or shouldn´t rely on loan signings. Everton loose a couple of players and all the apologists in the media come out to sympathise their plight.

The Average Positions of our players last night were pretty interesting:-


Looking at that it does make you think what would happen with a dominant left back on that side. Real Madrid's formations looked something like that when they had Zidane in front of Roberto Carlos. He would probably be a touch over FSG's ideal age for signing players but I do think someone like Coentrao is from the same mould and is being criminally under utilised at Madrid (has played <400 minutes of football this season in all comps).

The main reason for the big shift to our right side is because that is where Everton focused their attacks. I must say Sterling had a fantastic game against Baines, best LB in the world™. I still don't see a flaw in the idea of him becoming a full back. Given there is a massive shortage of quality full backs in football at the moment, creating our own may be an easier route than replacing Johnson.

A lot has also been made of how Everton "dominated possession" and "played well for the most part" and "didn't look that bad". It really isn't true at all though. Everton seriously lacked penetration. They played the ball around in front of us a lot but never got in behind us or set anybody free in the channels all game. The resorted to long shots and crosses which was more likes a Moyes team than a Martinez one. Last night they had 24 crosses to our 5 and 1 through ball to our 5.

I'm noticing more and more the importance of through balls recently and never was it more apparant than in this game. Everton just didn´t have the player to unlock us the way Coutinho was them. He murdered that Everton side last night. He wasn´t alone of course but that really was an absolute masterclass by our little Brazilian. It reminded me so much of Modric in many ways. Just a quick table to surprise you first of all:-

Wait, What? That was actually my favourite part of the night. My concern with Coutinho as a CM was always how much protection he would offer Gerrard behind him. Last night the answer was a lot. He never gave up the chase once and won the ball back for us more times than anyone (Most of Cissokho's tackles resulted in a throw in or corner wheras Coutinho took the ball standing). At the other end he created the most chances for us with 4 goalscoring oppertunities created, 2 from though balls and wasn´t dispossessed once the entire game. Now just think about how many times you saw him wriggling through a pack of angry bitters. Hard to imagine that not once single time did they knick the ball away from him. It really was a masterclass and I just cannot look past him for MoTM despite the Sturridge goals or Gerrard rolling back the years. If he can become our own Modric then he will do a LOT of damage in this league. (Shooting needs to improve still )

I also want to give Luis Alberto a quick mention. A lot of people are asking questions about him, especially with many opinions being we need a better player in his position now to compete and not understanding his signing. Just speaking purely in terms of statistics here, when he is on the pitch a very high proportion of his passes result in created chances with a lot of them from through balls. Now maybe he doesn´t adjust to this league or maybe he will just take a little time to do so but if we can turn his cameos into first team performances he could start throwing up scary numbers of assists.

He had an 11 minute cameo last night during which he created 2 goalscoring oppertunities from 3 passes with 100% accuracy. His otherpass was a long pass with the outside of his foot first time to switch the play from right flank over to a completely open Cissokho on the left. Now that is a very small sample size of course but it does show what many people know about the player. He is always looking for the most dangerous ball and is a very precise player also.

His last league appearance was against Spurs and it was a similar story. He played 11 minutes and created a goal from a through ball with just 11 passes in the game and 91% accuracy.

So our problem with Luis Alberto isn´t if he is good enough, it is how to make these small samples bigger. He really could be a frighteningly good player but one that will require that one commodity most fans don't appear to have, patience. May very well be 2015's Lucas Leiva.

[Corkboy]

The Average Positions of our players last night were pretty interesting:-

Average positions, eh? As I said before, your formation on the pitch should be where you'd like your players to be when there's a fifty fifty ball on the centre spot. I tried to pay attention to where Suarez and Sturridge were but folks, I am not perspicacious enough for that task. Sturridge was left and Suarez was central, then Suarez was right and Sturridge in centre mid. I couldn't keep up, and in that regard I felt sorry for any defence charged with containing them. Suarez, in particular, is the fucking Duracell bunny only with a brain. He. Never. Stops.

I don't want to be picky but I must highlight one passage of play which got a lot of airtime, and led in some respects to Sturridge's substitution. Countinho with ball was central and advancing, with Sturridge left and Suarez right and in front of them two Everton centre halves. Phil does the right thing by continuing to advance as far as possible. This isn't gloryhunting, it's a vital part of a two v one or three v two because the player with the ball has to make one of the defenders commit. In other words, if you have the ball, you draw the defender away from the teammate to whom you want to pass. He passed perfectly to Sturridge, leaving him slightly ahead of the nearest defender and accelerating. Meanwhile, the ball can go back to Coutinho or go to Suarez or he can shoot.

Now, Sturridge got grief for not shooting after a poor touch but the obvious ball, and I mean screamingly obvious, was first time to Suarez, who had stayed onside and also slipped the other defender. First time ball, on your left foot Daniel and your mate is in like Flynn. No wonder Suarez was going mad. It didn't help that Sturridge didn't pick options B or C either. He could have reversed it back to Coutinho or he could have eventually squared it for Suarez. Instead, he faffed about for a while and then tried a chip that was never going in.

I only say this because the lad is obviously gifted but he needs to make the right choices. There is an arrogance to his work that is vital in some respects (knowing when to take over from Cissokho and not give him a backward glance, for example) but it all seems to be a little bit about Daniel right now, from accepting his captain's penalty gift to the Thierry Henry'esque stone face "celebration" to the very public acknowledgements of some person in the sky who presumably had an awful lot to do with his success. He made the right noises afterwards, as did his captain and manager, hopefully somebody might have a word in his ear now.

[Cpt_Reina]

Think you're being harsh on Sturridge here.

I agree with your assessment of 'that chance'. The square ball to Suarez was the one to be played. And I think we'd all be right to feel aggreived had we only had a 1 or even 2 goal lead. But we were 4-0 up by this point. The game was well and truly won and Sturridge was still fresh from missing his pen, he wanted his hattrick.

You can call it arrogance, but to be arrogance would be doing it at 0-0. This was just a player wanting to make amends for missing a pen, a pen given as a gift by his captain, to complete his hattrick.

It's not a chronic and honestly I dont think it's something he does very often at all.

[ElstonGunn]

I think as a team we basically get selfish and play it around when the game's won, not just Sturridge and Suarez. It's annoying, but I don't think you see these problems when the game's still in the balance.

[BazC]

That was brilliant. Our lads have showed that intensity and sheer pace of attacking football before this season, and that too was in a game people were expecting us to lose points in. It's amazing how "shit, we're missing Gerrard and Sturridge" and "shit we've got no midfield" got turned into some pretty epic performances. Spurs 5-0 and especially yesterday's result will be talked about for years and years. Not only because of the results, but because of the performance.

Gerrard was superb. I mean, one of the big question marks going into this game (at least for me), was Gerrard in front of Skrtel/Toure/Mignolet (with a sprinkle of Cissokho in there to liven things up a bit more). That defensive line up gives a box of frogs a run for its money when it comes to madness. And I didn't think Gerrard was up to shielding them well enough for us not to concede chances. A minute in, Gerrard's caught up field, there's a gaping hole which Barkley attacks and he sends a shot from far out into the stands. A warning. But...that was it really. Apart from that, and a couple of other slightly hairy moments (which resulted in shots from far out rather than a ripping attack through the middle), they all did fantastically well to keep that clean sheet.

Our defence/midfield gave a brilliant basis for our attack to work from - Gerrard and Coutinho knitting the 2 together, and whilst Jordan was getting involved in attacking and defending as he's done so brilliantly well this season. And it was, of course, our devastating set of attackers who won us the game, and chalked up *another* 4 goals. The season ticket's definitely good value for money these days! Suarez we know about, Sturridge we know about... but Sterling deserves a lot of plaudits for his role in the side these days. It wasn't 2 months ago that people on here were calling him shit and saying he wasn't good enough. But he got his chance when Sturridge was out, and when he's back fit, this lad's become undroppable. Rodgers had to try and fit Sturridge and Suarez in a side, but now it's about Sterling and Coutinho as well. And hey, if that's the level they can play at we've got a great set of attacking players. When the defence shows they're strong enough to not concede and stop the momentum of our attackers, we're capable of just filling our boots with goals. The momentum they build up in attack is stunning and relentless. Longest 90 minutes of their lives indeed, boss.

The best thing was the control we had of that game. No Lucas, no Allen, no Agger ... but they still controlled it. Stevie, Coutinho and Henderson - it was a great performance. The initial sparring in a derby (and I guess in most big games) was navigated without them really looking like they'd score. And when we got our first, drawing them out a bit, the counter attacks were able to kill them off with ease. We scored 3 goals with balls through/over the middle of their defence/midfield and could have had a couple more resulting from similar situations. Sterling/Sturridge getting behind defences, Suarez running at/through them, Coutinho and Gerrard picking them out... all day long they'll cause problems for most defences.

When we've been on top form this last year, it's been the best football I've seen from us. It's enjoyable attacking football, and it's getting results.

There're still 15 games to go, we've been in the top 4 for practically the whole season so far, and we're 6 points off the top, with the big teams to come to Anfield. I can't wait to see it.

West Brom up next, and then we host Arsenal. 6 points from those 2 and we can probably start looking up the table again and not just over our shoulders. That's a great thought.

[Corkboy]

Gerrard was superb. I mean, one of the big question marks going into this game (at least for me), was Gerrard in front of Skrtel/Toure/Mignolet (with a sprinkle of Cissokho in there to liven things up a bit more). That defensive line up gives a box of frogs a run for its money when it comes to madness. And I didn't think Gerrard was up to shielding them well enough for us not to concede chances. A minute in, Gerrard's caught up field, there's a gaping hole which Barkley attacks and he sends a shot from far out into the stands. A warning. But...that was it really. Apart from that, and a couple of other slightly hairy moments (which resulted in shots from far out rather than a ripping attack through the middle), they all did fantastically well to keep that clean sheet.

On the Gerrard topic, yes he was superb but I thought he was playing a slightly different role than he had against Villa, for example. In this game, we seemed to be counterattacking, rather than hogging the ball. This means that we were sitting deeper and standing off Everton. It's a lot easier to do that DM role when the play is compressed around and in front of you, because there is less space to cover. Contrast that with a DM who has a team all pressing up and playing possession in front of him, and with a higher line, meaning more space behind and less margin for error.

[BazC]

On the Gerrard topic, yes he was superb but I thought he was playing a slightly different role than he had against Villa, for example. In this game, we seemed to be counterattacking, rather than hogging the ball. This means that we were sitting deeper and standing off Everton. It's a lot easier to do that DM role when the play is compressed around and in front of you, because there is less space to cover. Contrast that with a DM who has a team all pressing up and playing possession in front of him, and with a higher line, meaning more space behind and less margin for error.

It's interesting - and I'd agree that tactically we were different. You look back at key moments in the games - like Villa going 2 up, us scoring the 1st and getting 2 and 3 quickly after yesterday. The tactics evolve throughout a game - I'm not sure we were counter attacking at the beginning yesterday?

The other thing is that Everton weren't going to come and play conservatively - they play good football themselves. And Rodgers will have known/prepared for that. Whereas against Villa, we were probably expecting to be on the front foot and turn them over - and that block of players in the middle is susceptible to counter attacks.

It comes down to the expectations of the opposition being right and preparing well enough for that. Villa surprised everyone, including our manager/players and actually came to win. Everton did the same, but it wasn't a surprise and we handled it and then some!

[ElstonGunn]

This was nice.

Cheers, Roy. A few other assorted thoughts:

• I bang on about it so much these days, but how good was Sterling? I agree with BY that he could easily be a fullback (I like to say he could've been a right footed Ashley Cole), but his instincts in attack are IMO too valuable to move away from goal. He got himself into two one on ones again today, and has won more penalties than anyone else in the league. The finishing will come. It's also such an asset to have a wide player that defends so well and can sprint in behind his full back. He gives you most of the benefits of Henderson outwide without the limitations.
• Everton's use of Stones was truly suicidal. You'd think, playing a 19-year-old natural center back in his first Merseyside derby, up against one of the most dangerous attackers in the league, you would protect him and ask him to keep it simple. But no. In a choice some might call brave, but I'll call naive, Martinez asked Stones to motor past Sturridge over and over again and give them a free man high up the pitch. Much like Lambert did with Cissokho last week, Rodgers basically shrugged his shoulders and said he'll trade a Stones in space for a Sturridge in space. I felt bad for the lad, and Martinez needs to take responsibility.
• I also thought Everton looked like the team the Rodgers skeptics were worried we would become. They passed, and they passed, and they passed, and they passed--all the while moving higher and higher up the pitch--and they passed, never creating much, and leaving acres of space once one of our players (usually Coutinho or Sterling) broke the press with a deft touch or two. I've been saying all season that Everton are basically Rodgers' Swansea with Lukaku up front. I stick by that. They'll fall away, and Spurs are our biggest rivals for the CL places right now.
• As Juan put it yesterday, if we sold Suarez tomorrow and needed to buy a replacement, Sturridge is the one you'd want us to buy. He's the player people were making Luis Muriel sound like he could become in the summer. He's a genius, and on par with any attacker in the league bar Suarez, Rooney and Aguero, and honestly snapping at their heels. Utterly amazing that we still have to insist that, yes, he's actually better than Welbeck/Bent/Defoe.

[Vulmea]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match. Fantastic result in  a key match and really opens up chances for us at the top but but but

just like the 5 -0 against Spurs the result and the game were not really a reflection of each other - in part the distortion comes from our strike force being magnificent,  capable of scoring as many as they want

but despite BR saying we controlled the space, did we?  The game I was watching had Everton create consistently through the game inside the box, out wide and around the edges - Mirallas played well, Mignolet earned his money two or three times with very good saves

the scorelines in both games stand out, maybe its just me but we dont control games , they are wide open, its like kids football where anything can happen, 6 all draws, 5 goals in the last 10 minutes anything  at all, its amzing to watch, but you come out teh other side thinking wtf , how did that happen

Everton were blunt up front, the loss of Lukaku did not help but with  a fraction more luck they could have scored from decent chances at key times, whenever the looked to be back in it they missed (rather than great defending), it may have made little difference, we may have gone and scored again and I agree with Roy, 5 - 0 and it could have been 8  but at the same time if they'd have made it 1-1 or 3-1 and obviously it a different game

For me dominating games, is when we see a one sided contest - plenty of chances for us , none for the opposition - that simply is not happening - I guess I need to learn to appreciate a whole different approach if this counts as a superb game from us.

I dont see why we need to lose such control and give up so many chances to enjoy the spectacle going forward

As for SG I'm afriad I didn't see the same massive improvement as everybody else - if there had been those chances would just not have been there and the last gasp blocks and lung busting runs wouldn't have been needed - early on it looked ominous , he was wrong side, a yard short, he improved when he sat deeper  but I'm still not convinced - I want him to succeed there because I just want the lad to succeed at everything but it'll take  a little more than an adrenalin fueled performance to convince me.

Flanagan did well, Sterling is becoming more of  a player than a luxury, Henderson added a  physical presence that helped balance the side but a pacier side (like Villa) I think would have exposed our deficiencies again.

Great result but but but........

[Mr Dilkington]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match. Fantastic result in  a key match and really opens up chances for us at the top but but but

just like the 5 -0 against Spurs the result and the game were not really a reflection of each other - in part the distortion comes from our strike force being magnificent,  capable of scoring as many as they want

but despite BR saying we controlled the space, did we?  The game I was watching had Everton create consistently through the game inside the box, out wide and around the edges - Mirallas played well, Mignolet earned his money two or three times with very good saves

the scorelines in both games stand out, maybe its just me but we dont control games , they are wide open, its like kids football where anything can happen, 6 all draws, 5 goals in the last 10 minutes anything  at all, its amzing to watch, but you come out teh other side thinking wtf , how did that happen

Everton were blunt up front, the loss of Lukaku did not help but with  a fraction more luck they could have scored from decent chances at key times, whenever the looked to be back in it they missed (rather than great defending), it may have made little difference, we may have gone and scored again and I agree with Roy, 5 - 0 and it could have been 8  but at the same time if they'd have made it 1-1 or 3-1 and obviously it a different game

For me dominating games, is when we see a one sided contest - plenty of chances for us , none for the opposition - that simply is not happening - I guess I need to learn to appreciate a whole different approach if this counts as a superb game from us.

I dont see why we need to lose such control and give up so many chances to enjoy the spectacle going forward

As for SG I'm afriad I didn't see the same massive improvement as everybody else - if there had been those chances would just not have been there and the last gasp blocks and lung busting runs wouldn't have been needed - early on it looked ominous , he was wrong side, a yard short, he improved when he sat deeper  but I'm still not convinced - I want him to succeed there because I just want the lad to succeed at everything but it'll take  a little more than an adrenalin fueled performance to convince me.

Flanagan did well, Sterling is becoming more of  a player than a luxury, Henderson added a  physical presence that helped balance the side but a pacier side (like Villa) I think would have exposed our deficiencies again.

Great result but but but........

Stop watching football mate.

[Hinesy]

A big RAWK welcome to our new scribe ElstonGunn to the Round Table. Enjoy.

[DyingAtheist]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match. Fantastic result in  a key match and really opens up chances for us at the top but but but

just like the 5 -0 against Spurs the result and the game were not really a reflection of each other - in part the distortion comes from our strike force being magnificent,  capable of scoring as many as they want

but despite BR saying we controlled the space, did we?  The game I was watching had Everton create consistently through the game inside the box, out wide and around the edges - Mirallas played well, Mignolet earned his money two or three times with very good saves

the scorelines in both games stand out, maybe its just me but we dont control games , they are wide open, its like kids football where anything can happen, 6 all draws, 5 goals in the last 10 minutes anything  at all, its amzing to watch, but you come out teh other side thinking wtf , how did that happen

Everton were blunt up front, the loss of Lukaku did not help but with  a fraction more luck they could have scored from decent chances at key times, whenever the looked to be back in it they missed (rather than great defending), it may have made little difference, we may have gone and scored again and I agree with Roy, 5 - 0 and it could have been 8  but at the same time if they'd have made it 1-1 or 3-1 and obviously it a different game

For me dominating games, is when we see a one sided contest - plenty of chances for us , none for the opposition - that simply is not happening - I guess I need to learn to appreciate a whole different approach if this counts as a superb game from us.

I dont see why we need to lose such control and give up so many chances to enjoy the spectacle going forward

As for SG I'm afriad I didn't see the same massive improvement as everybody else - if there had been those chances would just not have been there and the last gasp blocks and lung busting runs wouldn't have been needed - early on it looked ominous , he was wrong side, a yard short, he improved when he sat deeper  but I'm still not convinced - I want him to succeed there because I just want the lad to succeed at everything but it'll take  a little more than an adrenalin fueled performance to convince me.

Flanagan did well, Sterling is becoming more of  a player than a luxury, Henderson added a  physical presence that helped balance the side but a pacier side (like Villa) I think would have exposed our deficiencies again.

Great result but but but........

Completely and utterly disagree.
Everton had one or two good chances - that's it - sure they had a lot of posession, but they did absolutely nothing with it and that's due to how we controlled the game and how we defended. It reminded me a lot of the 1-0 win over United at the start of the season, but with much more impressive counter-attacking.

[Gnurglan]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match. Fantastic result in  a key match and really opens up chances for us at the top but but but

just like the 5 -0 against Spurs the result and the game were not really a reflection of each other - in part the distortion comes from our strike force being magnificent,  capable of scoring as many as they want

but despite BR saying we controlled the space, did we?  The game I was watching had Everton create consistently through the game inside the box, out wide and around the edges - Mirallas played well, Mignolet earned his money two or three times with very good saves

the scorelines in both games stand out, maybe its just me but we dont control games , they are wide open, its like kids football where anything can happen, 6 all draws, 5 goals in the last 10 minutes anything  at all, its amzing to watch, but you come out teh other side thinking wtf , how did that happen

Everton were blunt up front, the loss of Lukaku did not help but with  a fraction more luck they could have scored from decent chances at key times, whenever the looked to be back in it they missed (rather than great defending), it may have made little difference, we may have gone and scored again and I agree with Roy, 5 - 0 and it could have been 8  but at the same time if they'd have made it 1-1 or 3-1 and obviously it a different game

For me dominating games, is when we see a one sided contest - plenty of chances for us , none for the opposition - that simply is not happening - I guess I need to learn to appreciate a whole different approach if this counts as a superb game from us.

I dont see why we need to lose such control and give up so many chances to enjoy the spectacle going forward

As for SG I'm afriad I didn't see the same massive improvement as everybody else - if there had been those chances would just not have been there and the last gasp blocks and lung busting runs wouldn't have been needed - early on it looked ominous , he was wrong side, a yard short, he improved when he sat deeper  but I'm still not convinced - I want him to succeed there because I just want the lad to succeed at everything but it'll take  a little more than an adrenalin fueled performance to convince me.

Flanagan did well, Sterling is becoming more of  a player than a luxury, Henderson added a  physical presence that helped balance the side but a pacier side (like Villa) I think would have exposed our deficiencies again.

Great result but but but........

A great result indeed. The way I see it, they kept the ball and managed to create some chances. But what they did came at a very high risk. We were deadly going forward. We scored, but we also had a missed penalty (from a through ball), Sturridge missed a one on one, the ref wrongly flagged us offside on one occasion (another through ball for a 1 v 1), Sterling got a freekick against, when he was brought down but came up first, which could have been another 2 v 1. Sterling also missed a one on one (ball bounced back on him). And then we had the shots, where Henderson's spring to mind as the most dangerous. And we won 4-0, where we had another two 1 v 1, plus Sturridge's lob where they were asleep.
I wasn't all pleased with them keeping possession so much, but we dealt with it and openend them up time and again. It's a great win, not just a great result.

[Trada]

Hansen "Every time Everton attacked I thought Liverpool would score"

[Vulmea]

A great result indeed. The way I see it, they kept the ball and managed to create some chances. But what they did came at a very high risk. We were deadly going forward. We scored, but we also had a missed penalty (from a through ball), Sturridge missed a one on one, the ref wrongly flagged us offside on one occasion (another through ball for a 1 v 1), Sterling got a freekick against, when he was brought down but came up first, which could have been another 2 v 1. Sterling also missed a one on one (ball bounced back on him). And then we had the shots, where Henderson's spring to mind as the most dangerous. And we won 4-0, where we had another two 1 v 1, plus Sturridge's lob where they were asleep.
I wasn't all pleased with them keeping possession so much, but we dealt with it and openend them up time and again. It's a great win, not just a great result.

As I said, it could have been more if  we'd sank the pen

you'd think I was complaining and saying we were crap from a couple of comments above

we are magnificent going forward - Sturridge and Suarez are superb, their movement, ability on the ball, some of their finishing is excellent. They pounce and punish defensive mistakes and create chances on their own. Coutinho enjoyed himself and looked back on form, good pass for the second.

But if we are 'controlling games' then  I aint seeing it - the games are wide open - Everton had chances, some good chances, they had possession, some of it sustained - they missed their chances at crucial times in the game just as Spurs missed theirs in that game - that could be brilliant tactics and if we weren't conceeding obvious chances I'd agree it was but if we are controlling games and space I'd expect to see the opposition restricted on chances. In neither game was that the case.

I understand you can control the opposition when they have the ball, channel them into unproductive areas, that the possession stats can mislead. That shots taken can be misleading, as they are outside the box from unpromising positions again that wasn't the case.  I've seen us dominate games, create shed loads of chances and lose to the oppositions one chance plenty of times I'm not complaining about the result. Goals change games, switch momentum, we'll never know  what might have been thankfully.

I understand you can pressure the opposition into mistakes, Suarez's constant harrying, the threat of pace behind meaning any lapse in concentration is exposed.

We clearly try to do these things but we did not control play from what I could see not when Everton created so many chances - their biggest problem was being exposed for pace at the back Distin would have clearly helped them there and Martinez should have been more conservative  did we control them and force a high line I dont think so not until we were ahead anyway but I guess the current mood means that its heresy to suggest  4 - 0  does not mean we battered them in a one sided conquest from beginning to end and we 'controlled' the game -  I know you aren't saying that  but the game has clearly changed beyond my comprehension if thats us controlling a game and closing it out. I might take Mr D's advice.

[PhaseOfPlay]

As I said, it could have been more if  we'd sank the pen

you'd think I was complaining and saying we were crap from a couple of comments above

we are magnificent going forward - Sturridge and Suarez are superb, their movement, ability on the ball, some of their finishing is excellent. They pounce and punish defensive mistakes and create chances on their own. Coutinho enjoyed himself and looked back on form, good pass for the second.

But if we are 'controlling games' then  I aint seeing it - the games are wide open - Everton had chances, some good chances, they had possession, some of it sustained - they missed their chances at crucial times in the game just as Spurs missed theirs in that game - that could be brilliant tactics and if we weren't conceeding obvious chances I'd agree it was but if we are controlling games and space I'd expect to see the opposition restricted on chances. In neither game was that the case.

I understand you can control the opposition when they have the ball, channel them into unproductive areas, that the possession stats can mislead. That shots taken can be misleading, as they are outside the box from unpromising positions again that wasn't the case.  I've seen us dominate games, create shed loads of chances and lose to the oppositions one chance plenty of times I'm not complaining about the result. Goals change games, switch momentum, we'll never know  what might have been thankfully.

I understand you can pressure the opposition into mistakes, Suarez's constant harrying, the threat of pace behind meaning any lapse in concentration is exposed.

We clearly try to do these things but we did not control play from what I could see not when Everton created so many chances - their biggest problem was being exposed for pace at the back Distin would have clearly helped them there and Martinez should have been more conservative  did we control them and force a high line I dont think so not until we were ahead anyway but I guess the current mood means that its heresy to suggest  4 - 0  does not mean we battered them in a one sided conquest from beginning to end and we 'controlled' the game -  I know you aren't saying that  but the game has clearly changed beyond my comprehension if thats us controlling a game and closing it out. I might take Mr D's advice.

They only had 4 shots on target, though. So the question is what kinds of quality chances did they actually create? How many saves did Mignolet have to make where you could say "he kept us in the game there"? I can think of one for sure. Maybe two. That would be standard in any game.

I don't think we controlled the game as much as people might think, but it also wasn't open. They snatched at chances, created maybe 2 good ones, and other than that, we kept them in front of us and to the sides of us. That would certainly qualify as "controlling the game".

[Yorkykopite]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match.

You're right. Everyone else is wrong. We should give the three points back.

[killer-heels]

As I said, it could have been more if  we'd sank the pen

you'd think I was complaining and saying we were crap from a couple of comments above

we are magnificent going forward - Sturridge and Suarez are superb, their movement, ability on the ball, some of their finishing is excellent. They pounce and punish defensive mistakes and create chances on their own. Coutinho enjoyed himself and looked back on form, good pass for the second.

But if we are 'controlling games' then  I aint seeing it - the games are wide open - Everton had chances, some good chances, they had possession, some of it sustained - they missed their chances at crucial times in the game just as Spurs missed theirs in that game - that could be brilliant tactics and if we weren't conceeding obvious chances I'd agree it was but if we are controlling games and space I'd expect to see the opposition restricted on chances. In neither game was that the case.

I understand you can control the opposition when they have the ball, channel them into unproductive areas, that the possession stats can mislead. That shots taken can be misleading, as they are outside the box from unpromising positions again that wasn't the case.  I've seen us dominate games, create shed loads of chances and lose to the oppositions one chance plenty of times I'm not complaining about the result. Goals change games, switch momentum, we'll never know  what might have been thankfully.

I understand you can pressure the opposition into mistakes, Suarez's constant harrying, the threat of pace behind meaning any lapse in concentration is exposed.

We clearly try to do these things but we did not control play from what I could see not when Everton created so many chances - their biggest problem was being exposed for pace at the back Distin would have clearly helped them there and Martinez should have been more conservative  did we control them and force a high line I dont think so not until we were ahead anyway but I guess the current mood means that its heresy to suggest  4 - 0  does not mean we battered them in a one sided conquest from beginning to end and we 'controlled' the game -  I know you aren't saying that  but the game has clearly changed beyond my comprehension if thats us controlling a game and closing it out. I might take Mr D's advice.

Your more than likely going to concede chances in this league. It happens to the best of them. I don't see how you can expect a team to just steamroller everyone and not concede chances.

Personally this seasons displays have given me anyway as much enjoyment as any season I have seen. It's certainly fun to watch.

[Garcepticon]

Cheers, Roy. A few other assorted thoughts:

• I also thought Everton looked like the team the Rodgers skeptics were worried we would become. They passed, and they passed, and they passed, and they passed--all the while moving higher and higher up the pitch--and they passed, never creating much, and leaving acres of space once one of our players (usually Coutinho or Sterling) broke the press with a deft touch or two. I've been saying all season that Everton are basically Rodgers' Swansea with Lukaku up front. I stick by that. They'll fall away, and Spurs are our biggest rivals for the CL places right now.

 

'Rivals'.

I genuinely believe that we are a freakish team. We are exceptionally good. We can score against any team in the league, seemingly at will. Can Spurs say the same? Can Utd? Can Everton? Given tonight - can Chelsea? We simply can't overstate how much our quality has put us exactly where we deserve to be in the table. No need to worry about what might happen over the next five games, no need to worry about other teams, no need to fret and panic. We are where we deserve to be.

On the topic of the back 4. Skrtel has massively stepped up over the past few games - he looked exceptional on the ball, especially considering his earlier performances from this season.

Great comments on young Phil btw Elston.

 

[robgomm]

Liverpool A) Dominate possession, create chances, goals
Liverpool B) Manage space, counter attack, goals.

Mourinho teams sometimes struggle with A as they are so heavily coached towards B. If we can do both consistently then we have a manager who can win us the title. It's a great time to be a fan. Last night was played perfectly to the players we had available, the back four arguably all much stronger defensively than going forward (Flanno is 50/50, I love his neat attacking play) and they all got to put in last ditch tackles and blocks. Gerrard was excellent in front, body on the line and lead by example and Henderson controlled things on the ball. Attacking line up countered brilliantly.

Wonderful result, as good as Spurs away and look at the contrast in performance. A lot of football to play yet but we have to keep looking at closing down the teams above us, especially as we have chances to take points from them. Don't care who is behind.

[ElstonGunn]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match. Fantastic result in  a key match and really opens up chances for us at the top but but but

just like the 5 -0 against Spurs the result and the game were not really a reflection of each other

I can almost see this angle on the Everton game if I squint, but thinking we were flattered in the Spurs game makes me fear for your mental health.

[woof]

I'm gonna come out and say 'thank you' to Rickie Lambert. After the Villa scare, it has taught BR and the team one important message: control spaces. Against Villa, we left too many gaps. Rotating Suarez and Sturridge in patrolling the left flank was brilliant. Our players were also up to the challenge in controlling the spaces in the middle - Coutinho, Hendo and Gerrard. It was unusual that we ended up "losing" the possession stat but that demonstrated BR's willingness to adapt for the greater good. Talking about adapting, one player has shown he's so adaptable - Stevie G. He was poor against Villa but a great player will not make the same mistake twice. He's a true world class player, one of the finest.

We definitely have the best strikeforce in the country. Maybe Suarez and Sturridge are both very passionate players and extreme winners too but no one can criticise them for the results they bring. They make it look so easy, whether it's Sturridge's second goal or Suarez running the length of the pitch and still able to put away the goal with ease. We sometimes take them for granted.

Thought Flanno was a welcome addition to the starting XI. Johnson has lost his form so badly that having him in the team is a liability. Not saying that Flanno doesn't do much (for damage limitation) but he's a very promising young Scouse lad. That's where BR is so good. He sees the abilities of the players and nurture them to become even better footballers. Just look at Sterling. He's no longer the speedster with no brains. He's now an accomplished player who has improved his decision-making. If he continues along this trajectory, he's going to be a great player. I'm hoping the likes of Ibe can develop into Sterling 2.0.

It must be Skrtel's head gear because he played much better. Are those extra brain cells???

With Spurs losing to City, we need to capitalise and maintain the 3-point lead over the pack chasing 4th. Who knows, with Chelsea dropping 2 points at home, anything is possible.

[mrantarctica]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match. Fantastic result in  a key match and really opens up chances for us at the top but but but but despite BR saying we controlled the space, did we?  The game I was watching had Everton create consistently through the game inside the box, out wide and around the edges - Mirallas played well, Mignolet earned his money two or three times with very good saves

They had 4-5 shots on goal in total. They had no real clear cut chances and their best chances were from 20-30 yards out. We have one of the best shot stopping goal keepers, so if the opposition want to see if they can beat him from distance then good luck to them. I think this is simply playing to our strengths. We know that you have to be pretty darn good to beat Mignolet from that far out. On the other hand we've been poor at defending crosses and corners and aerial stuff. What you DID not see was them having corner after corner, or swinging a lot of crosses in only to have our CBs flapping or Mignolet fumbling. In this regard, I think we played to our strengths. We're not a perfect team which means we have to make sacrifices in certain areas for gains in others. It's the combinations of these that'll give us the best chance at winning. BR said so himself in his post match interviews.

the scorelines in both games stand out, maybe its just me but we dont control games , they are wide open, its like kids football where anything can happen, 6 all draws, 5 goals in the last 10 minutes anything  at all, its amzing to watch, but you come out teh other side thinking wtf , how did that happen

For all this talk of no control, we scored 9 goals against our two big rivals for 4th place, and we conceded none. You're ignoring what actually happened for what you wish you saw. That is called wishful thinking.

Everton were blunt up front, the loss of Lukaku did not help but with  a fraction more luck they could have scored from decent chances at key times, whenever the looked to be back in it they missed (rather than great defending), it may have made little difference, we may have gone and scored again and I agree with Roy, 5 - 0 and it could have been 8  but at the same time if they'd have made it 1-1 or 3-1 and obviously it a different game

This is not stating anything new at all. You can say the same about any other game. Invariably teams start out at 0-0 and both teams (if they're good teams, which is true in this case) will have chances. Sure, Everton had chances to get a goal here and there but they would've been extraordinary solo goals. Barkley had a piledriver that I thought was going to go in right at the start, and then after we scored Mirallas looked very dangerous and went very close. The fact is that we didn't give away really sloppy chances like usual, both those chances were created out of good solo play. There's not much you can do about those when you play good teams.

For me dominating games, is when we see a one sided contest - plenty of chances for us , none for the opposition - that simply is not happening - I guess I need to learn to appreciate a whole different approach if this counts as a superb game from us.

This is an unobtainable standard. You are commenting on a fierce local derby (typically closely contested affairs) in the most competitive football league in the world, at a time where the top 6-7 teams are closer than ever. Our team played to its strengths, executed the tactics well and won very very convincingly. What more domination do you want?

I dont see why we need to lose such control and give up so many chances to enjoy the spectacle going forward

We had 15 players training the other day. We have our first choice back 4 out, and 2 good CM's out too. We had a small squad to begin with, and its been hit by injuries. Naturally, we're going to lose a lot of the balance in the side. BR can't just conjure up superstar defenders to come in and fill roles.

As for SG I'm afriad I didn't see the same massive improvement as everybody else - if there had been those chances would just not have been there and the last gasp blocks and lung busting runs wouldn't have been needed - early on it looked ominous , he was wrong side, a yard short, he improved when he sat deeper  but I'm still not convinced - I want him to succeed there because I just want the lad to succeed at everything but it'll take  a little more than an adrenalin fueled performance to convince me.

This is perhaps your ONLY point that I agree with. The result did overshadow some of his frailties when we were defending. No doubt Lucas (or Allen for that matter) can do much better, but to be honest we have the confidence that he's not completely awful as a backup. I suspect he looked better because of the derby occasion etc. but I couldn't help but feel he was a yard or two behind the play most of the time.

Great result but but but........

But nothing. You are sitting too idealistic a standard to judge our team by. Lower your expectation a little bit. We have a small squad, with very little up front spending. We've been hit by a lot of injuries. Despite that, the lads are acquitting themselves very well to the task and we continue to get results when really needed. There may come a time when we're back in the CL and we have a bigger budget and perhaps our squad will be bigger/better and we can then use separate expectation to judge this team by. What you have to remember is that this is a team that hasn't finished top 4 for a long long time and right now they're playing as good as anyone, and that's without half the first team there and everyone pissing and moaning about how bad a DM Gerrard is, or how bad Cissokho, or how Skertl is a wrestler etc.


edit:

also try to judge if what you are saying is rational by considering the contrary. if we lost 4-0 in exactly the same way Everton have, would you be on here saying "oh you know it was really really close, we actually outplayed them largely but were just unlucky to lose by 4 goals"?? I don't think so. No doubt the Everton fans will be ripping into their team on their forums, as would we if we lost 4-0 in a derby fixture when the race for 4th is just heating up. I could just imagine such a headline in the newspapers : "Liverpool cling on despite being battered and scrape through with a 4-0 victory".... yeah. right.

[woof]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match. Fantastic result in  a key match and really opens up chances for us at the top but but but

Great result but but but........

Same could be said of Fergie's teams which won many titles. He adapted. They didn't always control games. The 3 points is a reward for scoring more than your opposition, not controlling games nor having the better stats. Yeah, you could say Milan deserved to win CL in 2005 based on the first half performance. What about Bayern against Chelsea? Or Bayern v ManUre?

BR adapted. We DID control the spaces better after the Villa game. The fullbacks did not commit themselves going forward as much. Our mids pressed harder. Our forwards pressed too.

Don't fall for 'we need to control games to win' philosophy. Rafa never always did. Houllier hardly did. But these guys knew how to win even if it meant winning ugly. However, I believe we didn't win ugly against Everton. We won the game smartly.

[houkura]

I swear you lot comment on the result not the match.


they'd have made it 1-1 or 3-1 and obviously it a different game


Great result but but but........

If any team makes  a game 1-1 it's a different game than 1-0. 3-0 is a lot better than 3-1-that's pretty obvious. Is this something new? Bayern Munich get shots taken against them-in every game. Everyone does.

[the 92A]

I think he overplays his hand but can see where Vulmeas coming from. I thought we played well in the circumstances our counter attacking was ruthless and we managed to keep Everton from too much possession in areas that would hurt us but it wasn't as easy as the score suggested even though we could have scored more. It was a battle and tactically Rodgers  deserves credit for formulating a plan that worked to our advantage, there were times in the first half where my heart was in my mouth and if  they'd have scored the game would have taken a different course but we stood by our plan an executed it very well denying them possession in dangerous areas and taking advantage of their highline but it was pragmatic rather than the beaytiful football we have seen glimpses of this season and Rodgers derserves credit alongside Gerrard Couthino and out strike force.

[aggerdid]

i thought it was an unusual perfomance from us. we we're defending deep for large periods but we we're also defending very well. then we'd usually break and counter attack as soon as possible. seemed like the perfect away perfomance at home to me. coutinho was the stand out player for me. he honestly is wasted on the wing. get him central with the full field to aim at and he'll be off to brazil

[macca888]

My sense of elation is still too high to write anything too eloquent at the moment, but honestly, one point I've got to make right now is that Cissohko just makes me smile. Years from now, I'll be sitting with my grandkids telling them about the time we smashed those fuckers under the floodlights. They'll ask me to name the team, and when I get to Cissohko, I'll just burst out laughing. In much the same way I'll burst out laughing when I get to Traore when I'm naming the Champions League team.

And seeing as the OP has missed the obvious question out, I'll ask it. How did some of those bitter fuckers get home to Rhyl when they'd thrown all their train fare at Luis?

[PhaseOfPlay]

My sense of elation is still too high to write anything too eloquent at the moment, but honestly, one point I've got to make right now is that Cissohko just makes me smile. Years from now, I'll be sitting with my grandkids telling them about the time we smashed those fuckers under the floodlights. They'll ask me to name the team, and when I get to Cissohko, I'll just burst out laughing. In much the same way I'll burst out laughing when I get to Traore when I'm naming the Champions League team.

And seeing as the OP has missed the obvious question out, I'll ask it. How did some of those bitter fuckers get home to Rhyl when they'd thrown all their train fare at Luis?

Prepaid return tickets?

[PhaseOfPlay]

i thought it was an unusual perfomance from us. we we're defending deep for large periods but we we're also defending very well. then we'd usually break and counter attack as soon as possible. seemed like the perfect away perfomance at home to me. coutinho was the stand out player for me. he honestly is wasted on the wing. get him central with the full field to aim at and he'll be off to brazil

He was excellent. Helped also by the movement of Suarez and Sturridge ahead of him, the work of Flanagan on the right, Henderson keeping shape in the middle and Gerrard supporting from behind. In Brazilian coaching, there is sometimes a reference to the "Brazilian Box" (not the box midfield, but a shape to show where the support options are for the player on the ball). It looks like this:

---X----------------------X------
---------------------------------
--------------o------------------
--------------X------------------
---------------------------------
----X--------------------X-------

And it is basically the idea that support should always be on the diagonal, and there should be as many options as possible, but not too many. If you look at Brazilian players, they use a lot of outside of the foot passing to move the ball, and it is an excellent way of making non-telegraphed passes. Coutinho is an excellent example of a player who makes non-telegraphed passes (remember his performance against Newcastle last season), and it is because he was brought up with this idea of diagonal movement and support, and outside of the foot passing. So if we transplant Liverpool players to the above scenario:



---DS/LS---------------------RS------
---------------------------------
--------------o------------------
--------------PC------------------
---------------------------------
----SG------------------------------JF-------

We can see where the fluidity comes from in Coutinho's play, and this was brought out brilliantly yesterday. I also think that who has played left-back has impacted his performances this season, as the options he had available when he was an inside left probably reduced his ability to play quickly, and so he got caught on the ball a lot more, searching as he was for the right side options only. It would be interesting to consider how different his performances would have been if Enrique wasn't injured all season.

[woof]

He was excellent. Helped also by the movement of Suarez and Sturridge ahead of him, the work of Flanagan on the right, Henderson keeping shape in the middle and Gerrard supporting from behind. In Brazilian coaching, there is sometimes a reference to the "Brazilian Box" (not the box midfield, but a shape to show where the support options are for the player on the ball). It looks like this:

---X----------------------X------
---------------------------------
--------------o------------------
--------------X------------------
---------------------------------
----X--------------------X-------

And it is basically the idea that support should always be on the diagonal, and there should be as many options as possible, but not too many. If you look at Brazilian players, they use a lot of outside of the foot passing to move the ball, and it is an excellent way of making non-telegraphed passes. Coutinho is an excellent example of a player who makes non-telegraphed passes (remember his performance against Newcastle last season), and it is because he was brought up with this idea of diagonal movement and support, and outside of the foot passing. So if we transplant Liverpool players to the above scenario:



---DS/LS---------------------RS------
---------------------------------
--------------o------------------
--------------PC------------------
---------------------------------
----SG------------------------------JF-------

We can see where the fluidity comes from in Coutinho's play, and this was brought out brilliantly yesterday. I also think that who has played left-back has impacted his performances this season, as the options he had available when he was an inside left probably reduced his ability to play quickly, and so he got caught on the ball a lot more, searching as he was for the right side options only. It would be interesting to consider how different his performances would have been if Enrique wasn't injured all season.

Wonderful insight on that, PoP. What do you think  Plan B is if the opposition man-marked Coutinho to take him out of the game? Didn't Soton do that to some extent? It's not a criticism of yesterday's game but looking at what options we have. Is this where Hendo can step in?

[Miltonred]

The possession stat is a difficult one. What really matters of course is the scoreline stat, but perhaps more importantly if you want to understand what is the most crucial element to be in control of if you want to win is,  time in possession in your opponents final third. 

Everton had a lot of possession, but they had that possession typically in front of 6 Liverpool players, and because of the tracking back of all the front four, the time it took to get the ball forward into our final third was probably two or three times longer than it took us from the moment we won possession to the ball arriving to the edge of Everton's box.

So my conclusion is that the extra possession Everton enjoyed was on our terms, it was in front of us, and it was slow and predictable. Our possession was fast and incisive. It was behind them, and in between them, and had them twisting and turning trying to regain shape.

With the personnel we have, that strikes me the exact right approach - we want Suarez and Sterling and Sturridge running at defenders at pace, or into space. Slow deliberate build up is not where our strength lies.

If Rodgers talked about controlling spaces, then I am sure he didn't mean controlling it the way Rafa did, who was anxious to control the middle of the park and dominate possession.  My view on it was controlling the space and keeping our shape, which is really important when you know your defenders are not on the top of their game.

[Warks Moustache]

Whats really encouraging to me is how we are hammering teams around us. The 4 goals against Everton constitutes an 8 point swing in the goal difference. It essentially gives us another 'point'.

It's just a shame we haven't gotten a few more points in the bag, we could have really cut away from United, Spurs and Everton with a bit more care.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

He was excellent. Helped also by the movement of Suarez and Sturridge ahead of him, the work of Flanagan on the right, Henderson keeping shape in the middle and Gerrard supporting from behind. In Brazilian coaching, there is sometimes a reference to the "Brazilian Box" (not the box midfield, but a shape to show where the support options are for the player on the ball). It looks like this:

---X----------------------X------
---------------------------------
--------------o------------------
--------------X------------------
---------------------------------
----X--------------------X-------

And it is basically the idea that support should always be on the diagonal, and there should be as many options as possible, but not too many. If you look at Brazilian players, they use a lot of outside of the foot passing to move the ball, and it is an excellent way of making non-telegraphed passes. Coutinho is an excellent example of a player who makes non-telegraphed passes (remember his performance against Newcastle last season), and it is because he was brought up with this idea of diagonal movement and support, and outside of the foot passing. So if we transplant Liverpool players to the above scenario:



---DS/LS---------------------RS------
---------------------------------
--------------o------------------
--------------PC------------------
---------------------------------
----SG------------------------------JF-------

We can see where the fluidity comes from in Coutinho's play, and this was brought out brilliantly yesterday. I also think that who has played left-back has impacted his performances this season, as the options he had available when he was an inside left probably reduced his ability to play quickly, and so he got caught on the ball a lot more, searching as he was for the right side options only. It would be interesting to consider how different his performances would have been if Enrique wasn't injured all season.

Great stuff Phase, thanks!

[Melbourne Red]

Yesterday was a prime example of why titles & trophies shouldn't be conceded to City & Chelsea because no one can compete financially with them - a champion team will always beat a team of champions!

Every Liverpool player contributed to that win by working hard for each other with or without the ball.
Mignolet was sharp all match.
Our much maligned back four were tireless, committed & disciplined, Flanno & Skrtel are first choice for me now, Kolo gave his all & a lovely ball for the third goal & I didn't feel Cissokho was a liability at all, worked hard up & down the left hand side & tried to give the ball to a more creative teammate, which admittedly is all of them , at every opportunity!

The skill & commitment of Gerrard, Henderson, Coutinho & Sterling (my MOM) was exceptional & SAS look like scoring any time they want.

With Agger, Johnson, Enrique, Allen, Lucas, to return & Moses, Alberto, Aspas, Kelly as well there is no reason why, if we stay committed & team orientated, we won't challenge this year and beyond

[professorj]

How did some of those bitter fuckers get home to Rhyl when they'd thrown all their train fare at Luis?

One of the semi-literate ones had read in FourFourTwo that to be a great team these days clubs have to try throwing money at the best footballers in the world.  They just took it too literally.