Topic: John Henry: May be no more Anfield expansion due to ticket price considerations

[Godmadebloodred]

#TwentysPlenty!!

Get with the plan John!!

[Ken-Obi]

We don't want those bottomless oil money type owners with their questionable backgrounds but we want our owners to behave like them when it comes to matters like this.

Hey, they're in it for altruism and good will.

[TheTeflonJohn]

Think people need to calm down here, this is just an opening shot and may very well change, the cigar smoker is probably just testing the water to gauge reaction.

Let`s save launching the hand grenades till the day John Henry puts his massive cigar out and says in no uncertain terms "Your not getting a new Anfield Rd because of your ticket protest and we will not make enough money out of you as a result".

[TepidT2O]

I would suspect internal conflict within FSG is the reason for these quotes.

Perhaps some of them need a touch of public outrage to tip them over the edge?

I can't imagine Henry would make the comment without some ulterior motive.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Hey, they're in it for altruism and good will.

Seems so to be honest, those pesky BUSINESS men

[mickeydocs]

yup, some still seem to think FSG see the club as a charity not a business

They are a very mediocre risk averse business. FSG have no interest in competing at the top of the game.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

They are a very mediocre risk averse business. FSG have no interest in competing at the top of the game.

Is this a stealth net spend thread then?

Are people still moaning we didn't spunk enough in transfers even though we've bossed the start of this season, look like an incredible team and have a brand new stand that's only just opened?

[Filler.]

I like John, but that is just embarrassing from him. It's almost like a jibe from a rival owner to have a poke or something.



John... when you buy a book... you need to read it.

[TepidT2O]

Peter McGurk did always say that it was very difficult to make the sims balance..


Wait and see though.

[sminp]

Don't really understand the anger over this, he's been honest and his reasoning makes perfect sense. The more money they can charge for tickets then the more likely it is they will want to build extra seats. He's recognised that fans believe ticket prices are too high therefore it makes less economic sense to expand the ground if he's going to listen to fans over the prices

[redk84]

If the price of tickets really are the make or break reason for further development (or one of them) then I can see why he thinks that. If it isn't well.....

But saying it publically either way seems a bit unnecessary. He could have just as easily kept it vague and not hint towards anything specific.

Will wait until (if) this develops any further before getting too into it personally

[TepidT2O]

Of course, he did say "we will see", maybe it's just a case of being very cautious when giving a public opinion?

[Roady]

Poor John Henry, those extra 2m that he would have made a year won't be there so he now can't afford to expand the Annie Road end.

Nevermind the fact that we just had a positive net spend in the past transfer window or the fact that since FSG took over we are the club with the most outgoing transfers.

I hope FSG fuck off already.
[/quote

Suppose you have failed to see the new big fuck off stand at anfield? Seems all some of our supporters do is fucking moan. Everyone needs to chill the fuck out

[Redman0151]

Is this a stealth net spend thread then?

Are people still moaning we didn't spunk enough in transfers even though we've bossed the start of this season, look like an incredible team and have a brand new stand that's only just opened?

No, but when they start cry arsing about tiny differences in money (seriously, the difference in ~4,000 seats is tiny) it kinda begs the question where all the money they've saved this year is going.

According to Tom Werner, we have the resources to compete with anybody in world football, yet apparently we can't justify having as many seats as a second division club like Newcastle, work that one out

[Redman0151]

Obviously they're only adding seats if the projected ROI is to their satisfaction.  The price you sell the excess tickets at affects the ROI.

Wait, you guys thought the owners would expand the stadium out of the goodness of their hearts?  Like for real?  They're only expanding based on what it's in it for them. 

How about the effect an extra 4000 proper fans could have on the atmosphere for the match? Something Klopp has constantly been referencing, which column does that show up under in their little shithouse spreadsheets? They don't have the balls or the desire to follow up in what they say if there's even a tiny bit of risk, even if the rewards could be great.

[Fruity]

I know I'll probably be crucified for this, but I'm normally the last person to stick up for unaccountable billionaire owners, but he said nothing like what was being claimed in that article. To me, he's saying that to pay for the development there has to be at least some rise in ticket prices, even if only in some seats, but with ticket prices already expensive enough, it might not be feasible. There was certainly not 'you're protesting about prices so we are going to punish you' nonsense.

Ah well, there's a different view from the norm. Have at it.

I honestly don't have an issue with what he is saying. I think if we want a shiny new stadium then someone has to pay for it and that should be the club (not the owners). Its a business at the end of the day. I am not sure of the logistics of it but why not makes share available for the club and use that to raise money. Or raise the price of the new seats and keep existing season ticket holders at same price.
A sugar daddy would be nice to pay for everything but the club should be able to make these payments themselves and run as a viable business. If on the other hand henry is filtering money out to pay for other businesses that's a different matter but I think as fans we have to be realistic in that if we are going to spend £100million on something than the club should have the provisions to pay it back.

[Roady]

A new stand. A fantastic start to the season , moan moan moan! Why don't our fan base just chill out a little eh. Never fucking happy. Just built an incredible new stand and people firing fucking bullets already. Fucking joke.

[pyroparty]

A new stand. A fantastic start to the season , moan moan moan! Why don't our fan base just chill out a little eh. Never fucking happy. Just built an incredible new stand and people firing fucking bullets already. Fucking joke.

Huh? Everyone was perfectly happy till his daft comments. I reckon they could move the club to another country and some on here would leap straight to their defence! Thankfully not everyone who follows us is a shithouse door mat or our ticket prices would be completely insane right now!

[stevensr123]

A new stand. A fantastic start to the season , moan moan moan! Why don't our fan base just chill out a little eh. Never fucking happy. Just built an incredible new stand and people firing fucking bullets already. Fucking joke.

how about saying that to the fucking owner!

[Limbo]

Subject line is a little misleading and dramatic. No?

Nowhere in the article does he mention the word "Protest". While I'm all for eye catching headlines, this really isn't much different from tabloid style sensationalism.

Back to the matter.
 
1. FSG own the club, if we do badly, they do badly, if we do well, they do better. This much is clear.
2. They don't want to go on a second phase of expansion until they are sure they can make the money back in a reasonable time frame
3. If they go ahead and the expansion ends up losing, let's say, 2m a year. Do we think they will suck it up and pay it back from their own pockets?
4. If they don't, the losses will come from club funds. Is that to our benefit as fans of the club?
5. It they do, wouldn't that just be charity in disguise? Depending on which side of the fence you come from, "charity" might even be too soft a word...
6. If the argument is that they should pay from the profits they have siphoned/taken out, fine. Just show me where that siphoned out money is. If they have not taken anything out, it's still going to come out from our own pockets.

[bird_lfc]

yup - i am usually one of the first to defend FSG and think people tend to find any excuse to critise them but these comments are just daft and totally unneeded.

[CHOPPER]

His delivery is not the greatest, but they may well be the cold hard facts. Fan pressure to keep the ticket prices lower, reduces the financial capabilities to support such a build.

If its not financially viable then we won't build, if that is driven by fan pressure on ticket prices, then maybe we should put it to a vote - leave the ground as it is and the ticket prices stay the same or, increase the capacity and the ticket prices will go up.

Economics v's Politics . You decide.

[RedKenWah]

Unpopular opinion regarding this matter from a non-local supporter:

I seriously don't get the obsession to stick to the prices there is in England. Most other games, the owners decide the prices. If it's worth going at that price, supporters will fill in the stadium. If not, ticket prices are lowered. Why he wouldn't be allowed to do that is beyond me. If I can't afford I won't go. I would love to go to Super Bowl game or Baseball championship games as well. I can't afford to. I am not protesting. I understand the club - supporters relationship is special and club football is unique. But I absolutely hated the supporters leaving and the team drawing from 2-0 to 2-2. Think that happens to us in a close champions league chase. I'd fucking hate it.

Also in Baseball, say going to Yankees stadiums is absolutely expensive. But Yankees play Baltimore quite often where the prices are manageable. So a lot of Yankee fans just take the 2 hour trip to go the game there. If tickets become really expensive at Anfield, our away supprt will just further increase in numbers. There are always ways to catch some cheaper game someplace. This idea that no I want to watch the game at the price I want in the stadium I want sounds bitter

there is also the small matter of the TV money that clubs have access to is of such a vast amount that no club has no excuse to up their ticket prices...

it's greed unfortunately and trying to fleece supporters whom our club claims is an integral part of, is wrong.

[Cpt_Reina]

Thank God for FSG, their ownership is so bottom line responsible.

[cdav]

Disappointing to hear JWH come out with this, but don't let this distract us and put us on a downer on what has been a very good season so far.

Yeah its terrible timing and comments that did not need to be aired, just put out a non-committal answer of we are still assessing the options. We've had a really good start to the season, with the main stand open, brilliant attractive football, positive attitude and a feeling this could be special season- yet he makes comments that will just open up the whole ownership debate and negative opinions.

And whilst I understand the numbers have to stack up by themselves, with projects like this its usually always about whether the people involved want to make it happen or not. As Crosby Wych says above, what about other intangible factors such as the better atmosphere of 4,000 extra fans, potentially leading to a few extra points over the season and a few million extra from a higher league placing?

[Jay_Mc]

John Henry should show his working out. Increased seats in a new Main Stand, with the planned increased prices, made the club an extra 2 million per year. The new Anfield Road is less new seats. So say they planned to price it the same, are we really saying that the extra million, or 1.5 million per year, stops this whole project? Really

As for tabloid sensationalism - it is AP reporting it. If John Henry has been misquoted or they've said he means x when he doesn't, then Henry will be on to them correcting it, won't he? And if he didn't mean the protests, what issue did he mean?

There are lot's of ways the club can make an Anfield Road extension stack up financially - pay it off longer, seek outside investment, etc. All of which means the club still competes whilst it is paid off. The issue seems to be they can't pay it off quicker - like the Main Stand - a decision based on FSG and not the football club.

[Roady]

Huh? Everyone was perfectly happy till his daft comments. I reckon they could move the club to another country and some on here would leap straight to their defence! Thankfully not everyone who follows us is a shithouse door mat or our ticket prices would be completely insane right now!

Nothing to do with being a shit house mate. We have come on leaps and bounds. We have a great manager an amazing new stand and people still find the time to moan. A boss team an increased capacity and yet one bad word which we don't even know in what context really about protests and there's a shit storm. We are progressing the facts are there. Just relax see what's in front of you and wait and see if Annie road is expanded or not. Just find it all a bit fucking dramatic.

[Billy The Kid]

Poor John Henry, those extra 2m that he would have made a year won't be there so he now can't afford to expand the Annie Road end.

Nevermind the fact that we just had a positive net spend in the past transfer window or the fact that since FSG took over we are the club with the most outgoing transfers.

I hope FSG fuck off already.

That' s a pretty embarrassing post. It really is. They've just redeveloped the main stand and have secured one of the best managers in the game on a long term contract, but in your mind it would be best if they fucked off already? Fucking hell

Yes we had a positive net spend this window, but you seem to be forgetting that this was their 11th window since they took over almost 6 years ago. Both Kenny and Brendan Rodgers (and the transfer committee) were given sizeable sums of money to invest throughout that time.

As for us having the highest amount of outgoing transfers since they arrived? Don't forget that those outgoing transfers included Aquilani, Shelvey, Adam, Downing, Coates, J. Cole, Spearing, Carroll, Assaidi, Sahin, Borini, Alberto and Aspas, to name but a few. I don't know about you, but I'd say every player on that list needed selling.

And they're just the ones I can think of. So stop making it out like they've been chucking players out of the club just to line their own pockets, because they haven't. Our high outgoing transfers is down to the fact that our previous managers bought numerous players that simply weren't good enough.



   

[Pete1977LFC]

To me, it's sounds as if they announced phases 1 and 2 together, to get the fans on board.

Now that fans can see the shiny new results of phase 1, they are of the opinion "they'll be happy enough now, we don't want to build phase 2 but if we have to, let's tax them for it'.

It's like buying an iPhone and then having to buy a charger to complete the package.  Some will moan and some will accept it. Either way though,  it's a cunty thing to do. 

The only factor they should be talking about is bums on seats.  If we can't fill our current, new capacity then maybe there's no point in further expansion.

What they have said, according to the article is 'take the tax or you're not getting it'.

Personally,  I don't think they want it and are passing the blame via the inevitable protest.

[Jookie]

For me this is disappointing though not entirely unexpected.

As a local supporter and someone who wants to see more young and local supporters in the ground, the Anfield Road expansion would have been the best way to facilitate this. Whilst the Main stand expansion is great for the club, a lot of it is around increasing the corporate hospitality the club can offer. I'm not necessarily against this but the combination of the Main stand expansion for corporates and the Anfield Road for lower priced tickets seemed like a good combination for increasing both capacity and revenue.

Like almost everyone on here, I don't know the financial implications of increasing the capacity of the Anfield Road end in isolation. I don't have a clue what strain that would put on our finances or how long it may take to pay back. Though I'm pissed off  I'm not sure how strong my criticism against FSG can be at this moment for not committing fully to any work on the Anfield Road.  However, the messaging aspect from John Henry can be criticised at this moment. It feels unnecessary as much as anything. John Henry is a politically savvy businessman so it seems crass and ill judged to blame ticket prices/fans -  no matter if that's the real reason.. This message doesn't fit with what you'd expect from him, unless there is some ulterior motive to getting this message into the public domain.

[markedasred]

In a counter argumentative way, I see sense in some expensive seats for on the day sales, as I don't give a toss for lining touts pockets for the times when I am flush enough to blow a couple of hundred quid on seeing a game at our beloved Anfield. Otherwise, its me continuing to catch games by buying home tickets at away games, sitting amongst the other shirts and scarves, me in no scarf or team shirt to not get ousted. I would love to know how many people are buying three figure priced after sales tickets, around the ground or off the net. I would then put in a corresponding sized section at that price. This would eventually free up the season tickets that are currently held on to for the sake of profit. There will be hundreds, if not thousands of people in Liverpool who sell every single ticket.


Go ahead, tell me this does not happen, then tell me why the touts pockets are more important than the clubs coffers. I want the expansion.

[Roady]

That' s a pretty embarrassing post. It really is. They've just redeveloped the main stand and have secured one of the best managers in the game on a long term contract, but in your mind it would be best if they fucked off already? Fucking hell

Yes we had a positive net spend this window, but you seem to be forgetting that this was their 11th window since they took over almost 6 years ago. Both Kenny and Brendan Rodgers (and the transfer committee) were given sizeable sums of money to invest throughout that time.

As for us having the highest amount of outgoing transfers since they arrived? Don't forget that those outgoing transfers included Aquilani, Shelvey, Adam, Downing, Coates, J. Cole, Spearing, Carroll, Assaidi, Sahin, Borini, Alberto and Aspas, to name but a few. I don't know about you, but I'd say every player on that list needed selling.

And they're just the ones I can think of. So stop making it out like they've been chucking players out of the club just to line their own pockets, because they haven't. Our high outgoing transfers is down to the fact that our previous managers bought numerous players that simply weren't good enough.



   

Couldn't have put it any better. Some people are just never happy. ...

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I hope FSG fuck off already.

That is really a shit attitude to have, considering how far we have come since they took over. As much as FSG "apologists" are annoying, this kind of post is much, much worse.

Also, the headline to that article is very mis-leading when compared to what is actually written in the article.

[Jookie]

But I absolutely hated the supporters leaving and the team drawing from 2-0 to 2-2. Think that happens to us in a close champions league chase. I'd fucking hate it.

Fair play for putting your head above the parapet. However, I think most people who joined in the protest would disagree with your sentiments.

Standing up for the supporters. Standing up for the people who helped make this club what it is today is worth more than any single game of football. Whether that stopped us getting CL or anything else.

It comes back a point that I've made across this forum over a number of issues. Mainly that non-match going fans (local and OOT) are only bothered about the results in the main. The whole culture and ethos of being a Liverpool supporter and part of a bigger community is completely lost on a section of our fans. For me, being a Liverpool supporter is more than just what happens on the pitch. And a lot of people who protested against Sunderland probably agree with that sentiment. People whose tickets weren't increasing left the ground. Left in solidarity for their fellow fans. Comments like yours above are completely against that and what I'd expect from someone who follows the club.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

There are lot's of ways the club can make an Anfield Road extension stack up financially - pay it off longer, seek outside investment, etc. All of which means the club still competes whilst it is paid off. The issue seems to be they can't pay it off quicker - like the Main Stand - a decision based on FSG and not the football club.

This.
With the £30 away cap in play, my guess is that based on FSGs financial model the project may well be looking touch and go as to whether it is viable.
However, they need to consider why the extension is needed and it could be:
1) So more fans can see the team
2) So we are seen to have a capacity similar(ish) to our rivals
3) To help create a more intimidating atmosphere 
4) Klopp really wants it
It could be all of the above, none of the above or something else, the point is if the wider non financial factors push the issue, FSG may change some of their financial assumptions such as longer payback period. Then again they may not.
What can happen with people who are driven by logic and numbers (which I think JWH is) is that they may agree to the expansion based on changed assumptions but only at the expense of something else e.g. wage budget.

[.adam]

The crux of Henry's argument is that fan protests have cause them to revise downwards their pricing strategy for tickets in the future. Anyone suggesting this isn't the case has their head in the sand.

As a result, the build costs of expanding the Anfield Road end would take longer to pay off. it's important to stress that it's not the case that it would never be paid off, just that it would take longer at the current pricing levels.

If you're happy that they're not going to expand the Anfield Road end purely because it'll take a bit longer to pay off then that's your prerogative. Me personally, I'd like them to look to the long and not the short term future of the club.

And in response to the previous poster who says he "can't understand" why people protest at rising ticket prices... fuck me.

Read a bit about the city, mate. Learn a bit about the average income in the area, the history of the club, the socialist principles espoused by famous figures in our past, the lads who devise the songs on the Kop and create the atmosphere and the fans who were there protesting on the streets when the cowboys nearly ran the club into the ground.

If you price these people out from attending matches, the club becomes a husk of what it is now.

If you think that doesn't matter and 'maximising revenue' is more important, go and support Arsenal and boo them at half time like all those cunts do.

[JerseyKloppite]

Think semantics are important to an extent.

If he's criticising the fans' protest as the "issue" then it's a stupid and crass thing to say.

If he's explaining that the "issue" is that the club can't raise ticket prices as they would in the US, or they would otherwise like to... well, it's frustrating but I imagine the club obviously factored in increased ticket prices into the cost of redeveloping Anny Road and now they're going to have another look at that. It's not surprising.

I totally agree that FSG's PR is a disaster. One step forward, two steps back. It does also represent a more short-medium than medium-long term approach.

The thread title is like a tabloid headline. Ludicrously inflammatory. Basically "FSG punish fans for daring to protest by not expanding stadium."

[The G in Gerrard]

Don't see anything wrong in what he's said. It's FSG though and some have defaulted to criticising them for anything.

[redan]

Not quite sure what JWH has to gain or what his motives were for these comments,

If he'd have just said 'Plans for the expansion on the Anfield Rd end are going to be reviewed' or something to that effect then I think fans would accept it. The paint isn't even dry on the Main Stand yet, I don't think anybody expected them to start work immediately or even this season.

But to place the blame on ticket prices, in a season where a £30 ticket cap as been put in place because Clubs agreed that fan exploitation had gone far enough, is a poor move,

It is widely known we could sell out an 70,000 seater most weeks but if our owners want to stay at 52,000 because they can't get another £15 every two weeks from Mr Supporter and his son then, more fool them

[Craig S]

I seriously don't get the obsession to stick to the prices there is in England. Most other games, the owners decide the prices. If it's worth going at that price, supporters will fill in the stadium.

That's a custmers not supporters attitude. having only the people that can afford flexible pricing based on supply & demand will result in a stadium full of corporate hangers on and tourists. The atmosphere and game (using that singularly and the game in general) will suffer as a result.

Also in Baseball, say going to Yankees stadiums is absolutely expensive. But Yankees play Baltimore quite often where the prices are manageable. So a lot of Yankee fans just take the 2 hour trip to go the game there. If tickets become really expensive at Anfield, our away supprt will just further increase in numbers. There are always ways to catch some cheaper game someplace. This idea that no I want to watch the game at the price I want in the stadium I want sounds bitter

You don't understand the dynamics of getting away tickets. The demand for away tickets is already absolutely crazy and impossible for someone to pick and choose the odd game. You need to have been going for years and years to stand a chance of getting one. The away allocation will not be increased, in fact there is downwards pressure on allocations at the moment as they can rinse home supporters for more.

Unpopular opinion regarding this matter from a non-local supporter CUSTOMER:

All of which are American dreams
All of which are American dreams
All of which are American dreams
All of which are American dreams
All of which are American dreams
All of which are American dreams
All of which are American dreams