Topic: Klopp's Biggest Task

[Il Capitano]

I don't think so. It isn't the fanbase's fault when the team is not winning football matches.

[Mutton Geoff]

I don't think so. It isn't the fanbase's fault when the team is not winning football matches.

The reaction in here is solely some of the fanbase's fault and it is never constructive criticism just destructive and anyone who cannot tell the difference is a problem !

[Billy The Kid]

Absolute belter of an opening post. I agree with it entirely. There's no doubt that there's been a seismic shift in football fan culture over the last 20 years. The romanticism of supporting your team through thick and thin is long gone unfortunately

[Johnnyboy1973]

You charge £50 a game and this is what you get - that sort of investment demands a return. In a society where we are reconstituted as cost benefit analysers in every sphere of life, it wont be changing either.

The owners seem strong enough though to see through the immediacy of its' customers. For the time being, but they're no different than the rest of us. They just have the ability to be patient for longer.

[rebel23]

I really think we have to judge Klopp after the summer when he's got his own players in.  2 losses in a  week is disappointing but im prepared to give him to shine. I think most fans will but Klopp has a lot of work to do ahead of next season

[John C]

I really think we have to judge Klopp after the summer when he's got his own players in.  2 losses in a  week is disappointing but im prepared to give him to shine. I think most fans will but Klopp has a lot of work to do ahead of next season

With respect mate, the tone of your post is half the problem. I assume you mean you are prepared to give him time to shine? That's jolly decent of you. And the hard work he has to do resonates across the entire league, but we've got the man who I'd prefer to be at the helm rather than anyone else.
Mention of 2 defeats without any context makes your "preparedness" seem reluctant.

[God's Left Peg]

Fucking great opening post. Kept nodding my head in agreement as I was reading it. Thanks for putting into words the emotions and instincts swirling around my gut, heart and head. Wish I could write like that. Nevertheless, agree with every word, sentiment and value therein.

[rebel23]

With respect mate, the tone of your post is half the problem. I assume you mean you are prepared to give him time to shine? That's jolly decent of you. And the hard work he has to do resonates across the entire league, but we've got the man who I'd prefer to be at the helm rather than anyone else.
Mention of 2 defeats without any context makes your "preparedness" seem reluctant.

I'm prepared to give him time. its stupid to suggest otherwise... he needs his own players

[redbyrdz]

Absolute belter of an opening post. I agree with it entirely. There's no doubt that there's been a seismic shift in football fan culture over the last 20 years. The romanticism of supporting your team through thick and thin is long gone unfortunately

I'm not sure if its a shift in fan culture, or just the ability to voice opinions via social media. Before the internet, you'd do your moaning in the pub with your mates. If you were talking utter tosh, they'd pull you on it. Now you go on the internet, or call into the radio, and tell the whole world what you think before your mates can get you another pint to calm you down. And then you've backed yourself into a corner and can't backtrack without looking even more of a dick.

[CHOPPER]

I don't even like heavy metal music

[Mutton Geoff]

I don't even like heavy metal music

Pleb

[Bonaqua]

I'm prepared to give him time. its stupid to suggest otherwise... he needs his own players

Lets pray he's prepared to give us time

[koppper]

Klopp is the real deal - just listen to his press conferences. Cant believe anyone is having a go at him before he has even brought in one player. League cup final, Europa league semi-final and obvious progress with a lot of players after only 6 months.....if you want instant success, go to a plastic club like Chelsea or Manchester City.

[Alan_X]

I'm prepared to give him time.

That's ever so decent of you. How long exactly?

[unusg]

Jeez if some of our supporters were around during the hey day in the 1970s and 80s when i first started watching half the players and management wouldnt have survived their first season given the moaning minnies who claim to support the club.

Yes the game was boring and felt like an opportunity lost but there are countless games over the decades where we have adopted the same bore them to death approach. Most of the time it worked, on occaisions it didnt but we turned it around in the second leg. I still remember listening on the radio about Clemence getting slated for his last minute howler against Munchengladbach in the 1978 European Cup semi final but we rallied round and supported the team. We were played off the park by Bayern Munich at home in 1981 but turned it around and won on away goals. Lest we forget, Barcelona 2001 UEFA Cup and Chelsea 2005 Champions League were both bore draws that we went on to win in the return leg.

Being prepared to give the manager time? Get a fucking grip some of yous.

[Doc Red]

The response to the game on Thursday night was a tiny reminder to me of what I've grown to dislike about this football club, and specifically the fans who follow it.
Dortmund a couple of weeks ago reminded us of what we're capable of at our proactive best. ‘We can do this!’ We believed. And that's still unquestionably in our DNA. Dortmund proved to us that we can play a part. But when we lost in the last minute on Thursday, it was the first real negative, reactive response of Klopp's reign. At least for a game that truly mattered. It was the first time that some of our fans felt they knew better than him. 'He got it wrong'. It was the first manifestations of doubt. On some level, at least.

Fantastic post!
I've quoted a section that highlights some of our issues in the current era, at least with regards to "support".
We've become armchair managers, with no experience, limited knowledge, and bags of arrogance. Obviously, even the best managers can make mistakes in their tactical approach, substitutions, etc, however the negativity that can rain down on these forums after a loss (especially when we're expected to win), especially when taking digs at players, and yes sometimes even Klopp, is as surprising as it is nasty.

Apparently, we're supposed to be winning simply because us supporters deem it to be so. Even though (and as Garstonite eloquently pointed out)  "We all wrote this season off in October and accepted that “anything that happens this season was a bonus”. In spite of the fact our squad is clearly misaligned in terms of strength and depth, has finished outside the top 5 two seasons running (and 5 out of the last 6 seasons?), and with a manager running the tape on players without the benefit of a full summer session, as soon as we racked up a few wins, they became the expectation (or the new minimum benchmark) as opposed to possibly a high run of form, or an hesitant step in the right direction.

Whenever we lose, we lack the patience to look at the big picture, and the positive parts of our play (or players), and even when we win, we seem to lack the patience to take things step by step instead of over emphasising positives. It's a knee jerk-reaction either way.

Great OP. Klopp's biggest tasks may not simply focus on building a culture of growth, success, and consistency between the lines of a football pitch, his vision will have to permeate through the fans as well. And I'm not all that sure which is the easier task.

p.s Welcome back Garstonite. I remember you used to regularly churn out some quality posts going back almost a decade (at least when I first started lingering here).
Glad you took the time once again.

[mapleleaf56]

Great opening post..
This negative attitude has always been around though its just more apparent now because of social media..
In my day a'Tweet' was the pigeons in the roof of the kop and facebook was a photo album and the only way to deliver a message was via royal mail..
Now everything is instant.

[Runehammer]

I've said this about lot in the past and so have others, but if ever a post has 99% captured my feeling on things, then this is the one Garstonite lad.

Only thing I disagree with is that Thursday was the first time that fans have questioned Klopp, believe me when I say that some on here have been doing that after a bad result from day one sadly.

Personally I think the fanbase has never recovered from the fracture caused when the 2 cancers came in, not a new idea of course many others have said the same for years now.  I find it all rather depressing really and, whilst I freely admit to bafflement over the non-appearance of Sturridge on thursday, I trust Klopp 100% and still wonder how the hell we pulled his appointment off. 

[lukeb1981]

The type of c*nts whinging now will be up in arms when he fucks off to pastures new and we are left with the next up and coming bright thing in English football managment.
He was the most sought after manager in the world , do people not have any sense of how lucky we are he chose us. Utd , Chelsea ,Arsenal , Real and Bayern supporters would give not just their right bollock but their left one too for him to manage them.
We have been devastating in some games this year, a season that he came into late with none of his own players and a squad with no confidence and got us to a final and is within touching distance of another.How many other teams have been in 2 finals this year? Anyone having a go at Klopp would want to get a grip the spoilt little pricks.

[Jon2lfc]

Excellent first post. Agree 100%.

To those saying that Klopp got it wrong blah blah blah..  well, isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

If Moreno had blasted his late run and shot in instead of blasting it wide the same knee-jerkers would be claiming Klopp is a tactical genius.
But he didn't. He blasted wide, and didn't get back into position in time. Which meant Villareal had a big opportunity to score... which they took.

So the result hinged on a late individual error by a player who is widely known to be a bit "immature" in the footballing brain dept.
Nothing to do with Klopp.

We as supporters need to support the club through thick and thin. Otherwise it's better than we don't call ourselves supporters at all. Because a better label would be "customers".

[Gene]

Well said.

My wife and I talked about it this weekend when she said it was impossible not to like Klopp. She then went on to say that it was only a matter of time before a few bad results and we'd run him out of town.

She's not wrong. We've done it in the past, Rafa specifically. Things don't go our way and we start looking for someone to blame rather than rallying around the club, standing our ground, and fighting. I told her that we absolutely can't do that this time. If we run Klopp off, where do we go from there? We have our man, we aren't going to find a better fit, and we're not going to find a better manager. Be a critic and ask questions when it warrants, but leave the pitchforks and torches at home.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Well said.

My wife and I talked about it this weekend when she said it was impossible not to like Klopp. She then went on to say that it was only a matter of time before a few bad results and we'd run him out of town.

If we run Klopp out of town then we deserve all the crap we'll get.

[filopastry]

Great OP and a great thread.

Sad that it needs to be said though

[Always_A_Red]

You charge £50 a game and this is what you get - that sort of investment demands a return. In a society where we are reconstituted as cost benefit analysers in every sphere of life, it wont be changing either.

The owners seem strong enough though to see through the immediacy of its' customers. For the time being, but they're no different than the rest of us. They just have the ability to be patient for longer.

What about the millions across the world who don't pay £50 as they don't go the game but instead go on social media to vent whenever they see something they don't agree with?

[fowlermagic]

There will be ups and downs over the coming seasons that will test any relationship .....between ourselves as fans, us and Jurgen / players, the players, players n Jurgen, Jurgen n the owners. It can be a wee bit of a domino effect as we have seen how it works but ultimately every link is based on performances. If each relationship goal is met more often than not then all will be dandy.

I don't see the fans running Klopp out of the club too soon as the man is probably too good for the club in its present state. He really must like hard work as he could have walked into any club this summer, had 200m to spend and the goals were to maintain the status quo, ie keep winning at a club that is winning already. (Bayern Munich for example). Luckily he must be a bit crazy as he took on us and thank god for that. Of course there will be the odd vent from us fans as what do we know but Klopp still knows its a performance based role as why would he jokingly say he like to have a title in hand over the next 3 or 4 years? Might have been said with a smile and a wee laugh but we all know the man is a winner & has no intention of not giving it 110% to achieve success here. He expects the same from his players as you can see the steam piping out of his ears when he sees less than full effort from his players. Its going to be one hell of a journey I hope.... its just a game so not going to lose much sleep if we have the odd hiccup as they are going to happen.

[Johnnyboy1973]

What about the millions across the world who don't pay £50 as they don't go the game but instead go on social media to vent whenever they see something they don't agree with?

The broad point is you create customers and this is the result. It's the effect of a consumerist culture which seeps into all sphere of life - even those when we aren't a typical consumer but as such still act like one.

[Il Capitano]

At the end of the day they're all well paid enough and detached enough that they shouldn't be having these problems. Putting in that Swansea performance was unacceptable, and it has nothing to do with either social media reactions or fans in the ground.

[SwordInYourGut]

Surely everyone can see how much better we are since Klopp has taken over? We've had a much better season than we could've dared to hope for when Rodgers was sacked and a new manager came in. We've suffered a bit because our efforts have been diluted across 4 competitions, but the performance improvements are there to see for anyone with eyes. Klopp is the right man, he deserves plaudits for what he has accomplished this season, and those of you who are "willing to give him time"? You can stick that attitude up your arse.

[MD1990]

Klopp is right in dropping Sturridge. He is building a team philsophy. Hopefully Daniel buys into it & realises its not all about him.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

. Klopp is the right man, he deserves plaudits for what he has accomplished this season, and those of you who are "willing to give him time"? You can stick that attitude up your arse.

You don't know what you've got till you lose it springs to mind. I still sometimes find it hard to believe we've got Klopp, not only is he a superb manager, but he gets the club at at all levels, and gives the best press conferences I've ever heard.

[El Lobo]

Klopp is right in dropping Sturridge. He is building a team philsophy. Hopefully Daniel buys into it & realises its not all about him.

See, this sort of comment just doesn't help whatsoever.

[MD1990]

See, this sort of comment just doesn't help whatsoever.

What doesn't help is Sturridge giving interviews like he did last week. It wasn't the right time. For a large part of last season we had some fans excusing Sterling look how that ended.

[kennedy81]

What doesn't help is Sturridge giving interviews like he did last week. It wasn't the right time. For a large part of last season we had some fans excusing Sterling look how that ended.

What doesn't help is the likes of you twisting his words and picking half-quotes from it, just to make him out to be a c*nt.

[Djimi Smicer34]

What doesn't help is Sturridge giving interviews like he did last week. It wasn't the right time. For a large part of last season we had some fans excusing Sterling look how that ended.

Rubbish.

If you're comparing Sturridge doing an interview in which he says he's desperate to be on the pitch, after months of press and pundits questioning that desire, to what Sterling was doing then you just haven't got a clue.

[El Lobo]

What doesn't help is Sturridge giving interviews like he did last week. It wasn't the right time. For a large part of last season we had some fans excusing Sterling look how that ended.

Scapegoating players through utter guesswork is a MASSIVE part of the issue.

Second guessing the manager. Not just that he's been dropped (which you don't know) but actually guessing the reason he's been dropped (he doesn't buy into a team philosophy and its all about him) and then presenting it as fact.

As for the various 'interviews' which have been presented this week in raggy newspapers and on Sky Sports News...? Really? Of all weeks we're going to use that as fact, and ignore the fact that these newspapers are absolutely notorious at twisting words and missing out quotes and context in order to try and get more clicks? Daniel Sturridge saying I like to start football matches, I respect my manager, I'm happy at Liverpool but who knows what happens in football doesn't get as many clicks as 'STURRIDGE NOT HAPPY AT BEING DROPPED BY KLOPP' does it? Because thats pretty much what he's said.

[MD1990]

What doesn't help is the likes of you twisting his words and picking half-quotes from it, just to make him out to be a c*nt.

I didn't pick any quotes at all. Would just like him to be more of a team player. I also suspect he will push to leave in the summer. It's just my interpetation of the situation.

Rubbish.

If you're comparing Sturridge doing an interview in which he says he's desperate to be on the pitch, after months of press and pundits questioning that desire, to what Sterling was doing then you just haven't got a clue.

I never thought he didn't want to be on the pitch. I feel for his injury troubles. The interview was done at the wrong time though. He also doesn't seem happy at Liverpool considering he said football is not fun just work & players that say they want to stay at one club are deluded. Cleary giving hints he could leave. Again poor timimg.

[SteveZissou]

I don't understand a certain theme on this forum lately:

Now, I'm not one to get swallowed in negatives Liverpool vibes, and am a strong believer and understand how belief/faith works in life and football. I talk about this with people in football (and outside football) constantly for years. However, even I understand that many posters who write anxious remarks after games, are letting out steam and expressing their sudden criticisms, which doesn't mean that they don't believe. When you believe it doesn't mean you can't criticise at the same time. You can weigh up the factors, pros, cons, everything... and then when you go to match day we all believe. Well, nearly all of us. I don't see why we should cause division as to how different supporters express themselves over it. It's beginning to make me laugh that some supporters want to play the role of the Thought Police, what you going to do - edit, delete and ban users for expressing non constructive views? If one only expressed constructive views then it'd be boring and everyone sounds the same... it would also result in people eventually fooling themselves or holding back. This is not Liverpool's public relations site, no? Everyone should always be free to vent frustration too and be critical. I'm not doing that all the time, but I personally don't mind reading it. The players and coaches are not reading all these comments and counting the number of positive and negative ideas. There are many fans who have doubts, fears, criticism expressed and when they arrive at the stadium or pub, they believe and fully support the team. So, lets not cause division for nothing.

Most of us are already believers
In terms of a general sense of belief from Liverpool supporters, I'm also surprised that this is an issue. I've come across Liverpool fans in Africa, Asia, Europe and North America. Like many of you, I've met many types... but I've mostly found Liverpool fans to be believers... despite what some say. Even in recent years, I'd always hear many supporters tell me that we can win the league... we just need two or three players here or there despite the Chelsea/City/United massive investments. Even after bad starts in many seasons, I hear our supporters talk about how we're still better than Man Utd and that we'd eventually break into the Top 4 or win the Euro competition we're in. This belief is there before we even kick a ball at the start of campaigns.

Now, the reason there were some doubts in the last few years, is only because of Rodgers poor Euro record, himself lifting the white flag with his team selection against Real Madrid. You can't blame supporters to then think we're no longer going to win in Europe... giving up with the team selection in Europe was new for all of us to take. When Klopp came in I immediately knew that we had a great shout of winning the Europa League. I never feared Dortmund, Napoli... anybody. Rodgers also had his big moments of course... the only era that was completely down was Hodgson's. With Dalglish there was a strong belief that we could win all the local Cups and like I said earlier, I know many fans who believed Kenny could compete for the title if he was given time. I call that faith. I believe Liverpool fans have strong faith, even if sometimes it doesn't sound like it.

Klopp's statement about changing from doubters to believers I believe mainly underlines the damage Rodgers did with our Euro pedigree (as explained) and also the way some people in upper management might be moving the goalposts with our objectives. Those objectives/standards were reduced from Hodgson's time... and Rodgers talking about finishing in the table as per 'par'. That was nonsense. I wouldn't blame the supporters for that lack of ambition.

[MD1990]

Scapegoating players through utter guesswork is a MASSIVE part of the issue.

Second guessing the manager. Not just that he's been dropped (which you don't know) but actually guessing the reason he's been dropped (he doesn't buy into a team philosophy and its all about him) and then presenting it as fact.

As for the various 'interviews' which have been presented this week in raggy newspapers and on Sky Sports News...? Really? Of all weeks we're going to use that as fact, and ignore the fact that these newspapers are absolutely notorious at twisting words and missing out quotes and context in order to try and get more clicks? Daniel Sturridge saying I like to start football matches, I respect my manager, I'm happy at Liverpool but who knows what happens in football doesn't get as many clicks as 'STURRIDGE NOT HAPPY AT BEING DROPPED BY KLOPP' does it? Because thats pretty much what he's said.

We have no access to Liverpool behind the scenes so some discussion has to be guesswork as you call it. I call it an opinion. I've no reason to believe David Maddock made up quotes in his Sturridge piece. Had nothing to do with Sky Sports at all.

The fact that Sturridge has not been starting the EL games recently & Origi , now Firmino have plus the fact they press alot more than Sturridge leads me to think that is a huge reason why he isn't tarting. As his finishing is brillant. Would have liked Sturridge to say something like I haven't been starting & its disapointing but I will work even harder to make the team. Instead we get an interview where he rarely mentions the team just mainly about himself. It was a very honest interview though.

[Djimi Smicer34]

I never thought he didn't want to be on the pitch. I feel for his injury troubles. The interview was done at the wrong time though. He also doesn't seem happy at Liverpool considering he said football is not fun just work & players that say they want to stay at one club are deluded. Cleary giving hints he could leave. Again poor timimg.

He's said nothing inflammatory or controversial, he hasn't done anything behind the club's back.

You're reading into it what you want because you quite clearly have a preconceived notion of Sturridge's character.  What you read as him "clearly giving hints he could leave", I would interpret as him speaking basic common sense.  His professionalism has been called into question, his integrity; he's set the record straight.  If he had said "I'm at Liverpool for life, I'm never leaving", you'd be be accusing him of lying, he can't win with people like you because you find something in every little thing he says and does to try and prop up this narrative your peddling, that he's some sort of selfish egomaniac who sulks around the place and can't wait to pack his bags in the summer.

I've said before that I wouldn't be surprised if he does go this summer, there is little that would surprise me when it comes to potential outgoings in the upcoming window.  But there are some, like you, who seem to crave some sort of messy saga, you want drama, you want him gone because you've convinced yourself that he's some sort of toxic presence.  I don't think I could begrudge Sturridge leaving because he will never win with supporters like you at this club, there will always be something to pick holes in and criticise. 

[MD1990]

He's said nothing inflammatory or controversial, he hasn't done anything behind the club's back.

You're reading into it what you want because you quite clearly have a preconceived notion of Sturridge's character.  What you read as him "clearly giving hints he could leave", I would interpret as him speaking basic common sense.  His professionalism has been called into question, his integrity; he's set the record straight.  If he had said "I'm at Liverpool for life, I'm never leaving", you'd be be accusing him of lying, he can't win with people like you because you find something in every little thing he says and does to try and prop up this narrative your peddling, that he's some sort of selfish egomaniac who sulks around the place and can't wait to pack his bags in the summer.

I've said before that I wouldn't be surprised if he does go this summer, there is little that would surprise me when it comes to potential outgoings in the upcoming window. But there are some, like you, who seem to crave some sort of messy saga, you want drama, you want him gone because you've convinced yourself that he's some sort of toxic presence.  I don't think I could begrudge Sturridge leaving because he will never win with supporters like you at this club, there will always be something to pick holes in and criticise.

you come out with this. Hard to believe how hypocritical this post is when you complain about taking up Sturridge's words wrong but then start putiing words in my mouth. I have said my opinion & then get slated with the supporters like you condescending attitude.