Author Topic: A Tale of Two Cities?  (Read 11768 times)

Offline john_mac

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A Tale of Two Cities?
« on: June 29, 2004, 06:03:55 pm »
After a couple of weeks of heartache that ended as every Liverpool fan, and genuine football come to think of it, would have wanted it to, I really do think that it is about time somebody looked at the role of Chelsea in the whole sorry state of affairs.

Liverpool Football club are the most successful football club in the history of British football, among the very elite of European history, they can stand shoulder to shoulder with Madrid, Ajax, Milan and Munich as the true giants of European football. Many would claim that this is history, but it should be remembered that many Liverpool fans can readily remember the clubs seven European trophies, yes seven. That is the same as Chelsea, Arsenal and United combined, more than double any other British club, and even the youngsters amongst our support can remember our most recent European trophy.

A club whose history can boast some of the truly great players of British football Hunt, Callaghan, Keegan, Dalglish, Hansen, Souness, Barnes and Rush to name but a few, the club boasts both the most charismatic and most successful managers in the history of the British game.

Growing up in Liverpool in the seventies and eighties it was impossible not become besotted with football and Liverpool Football club in particular from Hitachi shirts to Herbert’s Perms the club ruled on every level. The nearest challengers City, united, Ipswich, Forest and Everton all came and went without seriously threatening the crown.

The Club dominates the skyline of Liverpool 4, it is also the economic heartbeat of the area, and whilst the ground has become slightly dated, it remains a living and breathing testament to what remains a great football club, a living testament to Bill Shankly, perhaps the greatest legend in a world of legends, the man who built the legend that remains Liverpool FC.

Hardly a youngster, when Gary McAllister arrived at Anfield he was battle wary, worldly wise, a player who had won leagues, played in World Cups, a thirty-six year with little to prove. Yet even Gary was shocked at what Liverpool Football Club had to offer “Everyone knows that Liverpool is a massive club, but it is not until you go there that you realise the size of it: the European Cups, the fans. It just grabs you when you go there, it’s special.”

Liverpool football club is special, nowhere else in top flight football, never mind amongst Europe’s elite  is there such a relationship between a football club, a city and the people of the city, the fortunes of all three are inevitably intertwined. Kenny Dalglish was one of the greatest players in the World, a true star of the World game as a manager he won the title three times in five years, yet he could not help but be touched by his relationship with the fans. “To me, public relations involved being able to relate to the fans, helping them in any way that I could, whether with tickets or just spending a moment talking to them. I wanted to make them feel part and parcel of Liverpool Football Club.”

Shankly was also quick to recognise that the Liverpool Way was not a phenomena restricted to matters on the pitch “Liverpool was made for me and I was made for Liverpool, and I knew that the people that mattered most were the ones who came through the turnstiles. Football is there whole lives ... and the encouragement the supporters of Liverpool Football Club have given their team has been incredible” claimed Shankly, three years after he had retired. Quite ironic that a ginger haired character, from a club not too far away, should spend so much of his time trying to imitate the great man.

The 1990s were a bleak time, on the field for the football club, in many ways we struggled to get over Kenny’s departure, in many ways we struggled to come to terms with the way the game changed, and relinquished our dominance of top flight football. For many fans it was difficult to come to terms with, even more so, was a football world dominated by commercialism and greed, a million miles removed from the one in which Shankly wrote  “For the past twelve years Liverpool have played two games most weeks, which is hard on the pocket.” Shankly had little or no respect for football’s money men and the football machine born out of the financial greed of the 90s, would have disgusted him.

Steven Gerrard is a local lad, brought up in this tradition, through the youth academy at Anfield and is now captain of the team. A player who has continually expressed his pride in his club, his position and its’ fans, a true local hero in every sense of the word, it is always gratifying when a local player comes through the ranks, I can distinctly remember Paisley’s pride when Sammy Lee graduated to the National side, I think this was something we all felt with Steven, with each club and international performance but especially when he was made skipper:

"It is a dream. I was captain of my school side and I used to go along to Anfield to watch the team and I always looked up to people like John Barnes who captained the team during the '90s. I'd dream that one day it would be me captaining the team I love.

"I want to do as well as all the players who have captained Liverpool. We've had some great captains at this club - people like Alan Hansen, Phil Thompson, Graham Souness, John Barnes - and hopefully I can follow in their foot-steps and make a success of my role."

Gary McAllister, a fine player in his own right, summed the young Steven Gerrard’s contribution up perfectly, “He is a very special player. When you play with him he has such a drive, a surging power. He’s really explosive. You see it in training, in the tackle, in everything he does. He has everything as a player. You’ll see him come out over the next few years. He is very special.”

He could not have been more correct, over the past couple of seasons, Stevey has matured into easily Liverpool’s best and most influential player, perhaps the best in the country, certainly into a player who can hold his head up with anybody, the very best.

The last couple of weeks have been a nightmare, something that has frankly been beyond, I just have not been able to comprehend how Stevey was considering walking out on Liverpool Football Club for Chelsea.

I have never had any respect for players who do things with purely a money motive, and think that they would always like drive, ambition and motive - everything that makes a great player and everything Stevey has always displayed in abundance. I can remember a time when Liverpool where being linked with an aging Rivaldo, an undoubtedly quality player, but one looking for a pay day. Houllier was quick to explain his lack of interest in the player being touted by his agent “I thought he was not right for the club, you need someone who does not just come here for the money, he must come here for the challenge.” The nineties was littered with players who arrived at Anfield considering that they had ‘made it’, consequently we got nothing out of them.

Surely Stevey was too young and ambitious for this. But does the Chelsea comparison really stand up? They had an exciting season last year, in fact similar to the one we had two years earlier, one that finished full of promise but ultimately empty handed.

The comparison between the two clubs could not be more stark, whilst Anfield sits in one of the most underprivileged areas that the North of England has to offer, Chelsea resides in perhaps the heart of West London, with real estate prices akin to gold bullion. The identity of Liverpool Football Club lies deeply embedded in the City, inextricably linked with the identity of the city and the people of that city. Its fans portrayed nationwide as stereotypical of everything that this country likes to look down upon. By contrast the fan base of Chelsea is so obscure as to be farcical, their only identity being a group of eighty year olds in red coats and Union Jack waving wankers with British Bulldog T-shirts.

Whilst Liverpool Football Club was rebuilt by Shankly, perhaps the greatest man in the history of football, Chelsea was bought for a pound and rebuilt by undoubtedly the biggest **** ever involved in football, Bates. A man who saw fit to take Hardings money and then piss on his grave, he then took the Russian’s money and wanted to maintain control. Who could forget the ‘Blue Peter’ “Save the Bridge” boards, the the way he wanted to fry away fans- a c*nt in every sense of the word. On the field whilst we have excelled all over Europe, Chelsea have yo-yo’d between divisions. For our Kenny Dalglish see Dennis Wise, for Ian Rush see Kerry Dixon and for Alan Hansen read Mickey Droy. For our European Cups see their Simod’s and for our championships see there ...... er nothing.

That was all till the arrival of a Russian Billionaire last summer, a man that none of us had ever heard of, yet a name on the tip on everyone’s tongue now. A man who made Jack Walker’s investment in Blackburn look like a lucky bag, yet a man who we all remain deeply suspicious of, at best. Isn’t it about time somebody actually come out and said where this money has actually come from and what Chelsea is actually built on?

The money he has put in has been er ... wisely spent? I think not, when the club’s best signings remain the likes of Zola, Desailly, Gallas, Hasselbaink and Gudjonsson, all made before his arrival. In fact much of his money is already dead, spent on players worth a fraction of their original value. They are still a considerable way from being anywhere near the Arsenal’s of this world.

I can’t help but hope that he leaves as quickly as he came and Chelsea return to their rightful place in oblivion.

Yesterday was decision for football, a decision for Stevey, a decision for Liverpool and a decision for you and me. A decision for the good guys over the bad guys and one that everyone involved in influencing should be congratulated.

I truly hope that every head that Chelsea try to turn with money takes a good long look at their lives and what their decisions say this summer. I hope that every target they have turns around and gives them two fingers, although I know it is unlikely. Long term success is cyclical and only rarely built purely upon financial clout, it is built from acting in a professional and proper manner and from a solid platform, it is not built on quicksand or Doug Rouvie challenges.

The day that the Russian Gangster puts his toy away cannot come quick enough, the day that Chelsea take their rightful place with the Derby County’s and Sunderlands (I know that’s a bit unfair on Derby, who did win the league twice in the seventies while Chelsea where flirting with 2nd division football) of this world will soon be upon us, whilst like a phoenix from the flames the Liverpool Way will prevail.

© john_mac 2004
« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 04:03:42 pm by Rushian »
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Offline Spartacus.

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2004, 06:14:04 pm »
 :) Good stuff John, wont lose any sleep over Chelsea.... sooner things are back to norm the better!!
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Offline adamski

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2004, 06:26:52 pm »
Great read John!


Offline mobydick

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2004, 06:31:50 pm »
John, good post. From your heart, as always.


I take it the part about the

Quote
Chelsea,  their only identity being group of eighty year old perverts in red coats

is tongue in cheek. I don't think these old codgers need to be taken to task over mymamsgotanitch and his money.
Anyway to be a pervert at their age would need the assistance of viagra I feel and giving them that would be tantamount to murder.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2004, 06:34:24 pm by mobydick »

Pheeny

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2004, 06:39:58 pm »
 Great read John but one thing its Phoenix not Pheonix ;)

Bloke

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2004, 06:41:08 pm »
The Pheeny will rise from the flames?  :D

Pheeny

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2004, 06:41:50 pm »
The Pheeny will rise from the flames?  :D
:wave

Offline Wendi

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2004, 06:47:29 pm »
Great read.

You asked isnt about time someone asked where did his money come from? Agree. Perhaps theyre afraid of the answer.

What I want someone to ask is, why is he doing it?

Maybe the answers are related.
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Offline Tarpaulin

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2004, 06:49:20 pm »
Well fuckin said John.....clap, clap. :wave

Offline America's Sweetheart

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2004, 06:55:02 pm »
I'm not sure I can explain where his money came from, except to say that the Russian government is looking ever-closer at him. But he's involved in Chelsea because he sees football as the easiest way to achieve respectability in Western Europe. In two years, when he tries to buy some major business, he'll no longer be Unknown Dodgy Russian Billonaire but Respected Owner Of Chelsea FC, and the regulatory authorities will give him a much easier time as a result. Or so they say at the Financial Times, anyway.

Offline Rashid

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2004, 06:58:06 pm »
It is always difficult to repy to John's posts as they are so good and informed. One thing struck me is the mention of Kerry Dixon. Dixon is now manager of Letchworth Town I think - and one of my mates played with him a couple of seasons - he is supposed to be a good lad and always out on the 'lash' with the 'lads'.

Really thinking about it though - Kerry Dixon is a Chelsea legend - yes - Kerry Fucking Dixon and Legend in the same sentence. Put up the name Dixon alongside - Dalglish, Rush and Hunt and the comparison between the clubs end.

I work in London and know many Chelsea fans - although as human beings they are ok - but their sheer arrogance these days is the disgusting - brings a whole new meaning to cockney wide boys.

Offline America's Sweetheart

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2004, 06:59:08 pm »
*cough*David Speedie*cough*

Offline Life

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2004, 07:00:42 pm »
Good to see you back...posts like these do a fair bit towards showing everyone what it is to be a liverpool fan.
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Offline cornelius

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2004, 07:30:26 pm »

Liverpool Football club are the most successful football club in the history of British football, among the very elite of European history, they can stand shoulder to shoulder with Madrid, Ajax, Milan and Munich as the true giants of European football. Many would claim that this is history, but it should be remembered that many Liverpool fans can readily remember the clubs seven European trophies, yes seven. That is more than the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, United and Everton combined, far more than any other British club, and even the youngsters amongst our support can remember our most recent European trophy.

Superbly put and always worth emphasising.

You've got your giants of European football; your Man Uniteds, your Juventuses, your Barcelonas and you've got your GODS of European football; Your Real Madrids, your Ajaxes, your Milans, your Munichs and your Liverpools.

We are one of only 5 teams to dominate European football.

We are also the most recent English side to be succesful in Europe.

 :wellin :wellin :wellin
« Last Edit: June 29, 2004, 09:12:11 pm by vladallover »

Offline parr

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2004, 07:36:10 pm »
Well said.

All the money in the world can't buy what we've got.

Offline Roger

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2004, 08:06:10 pm »
Great read there. This untold wealth that has landed in the laps of Chelsea is bad for the game and may ultimately be the downfall of the club concerned.

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2004, 08:16:39 pm »
you are entitled to your opinion as we live in a free country but those w*****s in red coats are old soldiers who fought to give you the right to your opinion   :wanker

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2004, 09:30:44 pm »
You are a very very sad and bitter man. Noone at chelsea has badmouthed liverpool in any way, shape or form. Our supporters continue to behave with humility and dignity, and all you can do is take cheap shots about something that you know nothing about.

It is a real shame that people like you have a platform from which to incite hatred. You are a disgrace to the game which I, as a lifelong chelsea fan, love.

I will not stoop to your level and wish ill upon liverpool. They are a fine football club of which all of england can be proud. With this in mind, it is clear to me that you are not a true fan of the club or even the game, but an oafish lout with an axe to grind.

Offline cornelius

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2004, 09:32:58 pm »
Our supporters continue to behave with humility and dignity
Insert joke here ;D

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2004, 10:01:36 pm »
It's difficult to imagine someone so completely out of touch with reality!   Maybe, one day, you can pull your head out of your rear-end and learn to respect your opponents a little bit and also learn about your surroundings.  

Keep longing for the good old days when you can once again look down your nose at teams like Chelsea with contempt.  Unfortunately for you, it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future!  You're still 19 points behind Arse with no real way of making up that ground.  You're a second echelon team right now with no way of breaking into the top tier.

Where on earth did you get your ignorant thoughts concerning Chelsea supporters?  Are you simply combining respected veterans with David Mellor or are you just a complete moron?  An absolutely tasteless and disgraceful comment.  

Just think, many years from now you'll be able to tell your grandchildren that you were there when Liverpool last won the league!  Welcome to your continued story of mediocrity!  May it last your lifetime!  

Offline cornelius

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2004, 10:08:34 pm »
Touched a raw nerve Mike? :D

Offline mikeb58

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2004, 10:09:16 pm »
   John,  would that be Peter 'Noone', ex Hermans Hermits front man ? Didn't know he supported Chelsea, one of your celeb hangers on i suppose !
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Offline SkyBlueRed

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2004, 10:10:03 pm »
Noone at chelsea has badmouthed liverpool in any way, shape or form. Our supporters continue to behave with humility and dignity

What a load of bollocks, your either stupid, nieve or just "extracting the urine" because you really are talking crap there.

As for the original post, well put, we have such a lot to be proud of and love is the only word you can use to describe LFC and the supporters relationship, can you really imagine loving Chelsea? I mean really, could you be fond of that? If I was a fan I would truly be ashamed, its one thing to come into money but the sheer arrogance and idiocy their fans have displayed is.. well inexplicable. They dont see the fact that their club are just wannabe transfer market bullies for want of a better word, players dont come because of a love for the club, a want to be there, an affinty with the fans, they come for the green stuff that lines their wallets.... How can you be proud of an establishment like that? Then again I guess im being nieve now because Chelsea is just a large scale example of what football is becoming.

I wish Agrizlybitch would disappear as much as everyone else, but really.. he has so much money to throw around, what are teh chances of it actually happening?

Anyway enough of my whining, great post as I said, thoroughly enjoyed it!
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Nigel Spackman

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2004, 10:12:35 pm »
Tripe

Offline cornelius

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2004, 10:17:05 pm »
Tripe
Ahhh Nigel Spackman. A man with one of the most appropriate nicknames in football

Nigel Spackman

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2004, 10:28:33 pm »
I think some of you need to get your tongues out of your own arses and take a look at who the real arrogant ones are here.

Offline America's Sweetheart

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2004, 10:28:59 pm »

Where on earth did you get your ignorant thoughts concerning Chelsea supporters?  


Um. This is quite a good place to start ... http://nominated.homestead.com/

Offline blindfolded

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2004, 10:30:52 pm »
Dear John Mac (BA History)

Bitter, bitter scouser. Steve Gerrard is well overrated and pretty average anyway. Quite relieved he's staying as he'll probably spend most of his time suspended for his trademark two-footed tackles. He's better off at Liverpool where ref's give him the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, the big difference between Liverpool and the other Euro greats mentioned is that they all did it with exciting football and LFC just bored us to death! (I'll bet Liverpool had more 0-0 draws than any other team!). Give me United anyday, at least they play exciting, open football!

Hopefully your beloved 70s champions will soon be joining the other 70s team Leeds Utd in leaving the premiership! That would be a lorra lorra laffs !!!!!! Eh ar kid, la!!!


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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2004, 10:41:09 pm »



Um. This is quite a good place to start ... http://nominated.homestead.com/


Pathetic. And Liverpool don't have a troublemaking minority I suppose?

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2004, 10:41:25 pm »
Dear John Mac (BA History)

Bitter, bitter scouser. Steve Gerrard is well overrated and pretty average anyway.





No offence old chap, but that is a really silly thing to say.

If he was that average, why were your manager, Cheir Executive and Owner, willing to pay the biggest fee in English footy to get him.

Just doesn't add up to me old bean.
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Offline john_mac

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2004, 10:51:00 pm »
Thanks very much to all you guests, and in some cases recently registered members for your kind comments, it is good to see that you have looked and learned, very well done.

Really nice to see my comments being quoted in the land of the 'Peter Bonnetti' a place where John Hollins truly is a God a land that truly is chelseafc.com the font of all knowledge.

Of Course it is easy for us mere Liverpool fans to live in the past especially when you consider that since

Chelsea last won the League we have won how many?
Chelsea last won a European trophy we have won how many?
Chelsea last won the FA Cup we have won how many?
Chelsea last won the league cup we have won how many?
I won't bother mentioning the European Cups we won by boring the opposition to death!

mmmmmmmmmmmmm............................ now that it is cnundrum for us history teachers, so fond of our past.

Hope yers avoid Tel Aviv this year lads!
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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2004, 11:19:40 pm »
 I try not to get annoyed at meaningless rant, but to have ago at some old men who put their lifes on the line to keep this whole Country safe, when they were watching their friends dying around them and wondering when/if the next bullet or tommorows
might be theirs, protecting your fathers when they were still in thier nappies and giving Liverpool the chance to florish as a team, not nazi occupation (I wonder how well Shankly would have done under Nazi occupation! Bayern Munich President/kommandant?)
 If You want to call Chelsea Tasteless  You should should think before You post Tasteless drivel too, or all is hypocracy!

Offline john_mac

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2004, 12:25:05 am »
Well it is easy for us tasteless northerners, after all how many of our families fought in Wars? Its not like the working classes were classed as dispensible is it, we just left our lights on eh?

Or maybe?

http://gadget-detective.moonfruit.com/chelseapensioners

or maybe, just maybe it wasn't an attack on the auld fellas but a lack of identity among Chelsea fans, even those who would not dream of 'bad-mouthing' Liverpool in any way?

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Offline Ian-TN

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2004, 12:39:22 am »
Crackin post John.
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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2004, 12:43:42 am »
I try not to get annoyed at meaningless rant, but to have ago at some old men who put their lifes on the line to keep this whole Country safe, when they were watching their friends dying around them and wondering when/if the next bullet or tommorows
might be theirs, protecting your fathers when they were still in thier nappies and giving Liverpool the chance to florish as a team, not nazi occupation (I wonder how well Shankly would have done under Nazi occupation! Bayern Munich President/kommandant?)
 If You want to call Chelsea Tasteless  You should should think before You post Tasteless drivel too, or all is hypocracy!

So does AGrizlybitch charge them £50 a ticket too?

Nazi this? Nazi that? Puurlease!! You're practically defined by your ultranationalist fans!

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2004, 01:02:27 am »
Amazingly Bitter Chelsea fans throwing their dummys out of the pram along with their Manc Chief Exec and Russian God.They just cant get it can they why a born and bred scouser from a club like Liverpool might want to turn down a move to a nothing club like Chelsea!Your fans are being ridicuosly silly to think you are a major power as yet.If in Five years time your god is still around and you have won 2 championships and a European cup come back and ask Stevie again,60 million should do the trick,for now dream on and reflect........ahhh    Dixon,petrescu,hollins,Wilkins,Wise Ha Ha HA!!!

Offline cochyn

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2004, 01:07:45 am »
A truly excellent read, John. Thanks for putting that up. :wave


I think our little guests need to learn that greatness comes from the heart, not the wallet. But maybe that is the true 'tale of two cities'?
Oh the heavy water how it enfolds. The salt, the spray, the gorgeous undertow.

Offline the BIG fella

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2004, 02:54:10 am »
Nice one John. Very interesting.

I think you'll find that Nigel Spackman is one of their legends as well. Thats says it all.  ;D
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Offline RedVT

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2004, 04:52:02 am »
Excellent read John.  Thanks.

Jimus

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Re: A Tale of Two Cities?
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2004, 10:08:49 am »
Jumped up and jealous, SG only stayed under threat to his family, and if your happy with that then you haveno respect for peoples right to free choice! ;D