Topic: Watford FC v Liverpool FC @ Vicarage Road, WD18 0ER. Monday May 1st 20.00

[princeoftherocks]

You have several blips in a season..

Ours come as a result of our defense, all the sides we are competing with have weaknesses.  Defeatism like this is self fulfilling.

the problem is we get carried away in our attack, lose composure and immediately concede a goal afterwards.  no balance.

[MrRaptorTurtle]

Lallana in for Lucas. Can Wijnaldum Lallana in Mf. We'd be too slow if we put Lallana in the front three.

And I'd rather us play Origi out on the wing with Firmino in the middle too! Origi always drifts out wide anyway and Firmino is just far better when he's playing centrally!

[Oberyn_Martell]

And I'd rather us play Origi out on the wing with Firmino in the middle too! Origi always drifts out wide anyway and Firmino is just far better when he's playing centrally!

Yeah probably a good idea but I dont think it'll happen although they might just interchange often enough anyway. I think we have a better chance of being more cohesive in attack with that  MF. If its Lucas and Lallana in the front we might end up getting caught a lot more often on the counter.

[Ski]

FFS just win!

[LFCEmpire]

Shitting bricks for this one. Win and we are very much on in terms of CL spot.

[KopThat]

Their style of play will make this a tough one, and a lot depends on dealing with balls in the box.

We should have enough attacking talent to score at least 2, just have to do the job at the other end.

[Lycan]

I dont get these type of posts. Why should we  be home and hosed ?

As in, we didn't have the fixture congestion of other sides, which should have put us in a very advantageous position to qualify for the CL. But we have now squandered that position away by dropping silly points, mostly to teams we should have wiped the floor with.

[didi shamone]

I dont get these type of posts. Why should we  be home and hosed ? Its not like we have suddenly lost 4 games on the bounce. We have picked up 17 points from our last 8 league games. That type of form is top 3 or 4 form and if we get 8 from our last 4 we will get 4th in my opinion.

I reckon 8 points would get us sixth. I'm in the must win camp here. We'd be very lucky if 10 points gets us fourth now. We're not winning easy lately so this will be no different.  Its a slogging match here.

[Anfield Kopite]

As in, we didn't have the fixture congestion of other sides, which should have put us in a very advantageous position to qualify for the CL. But we have now squandered that position away by dropping silly points, mostly to teams we should have wiped the floor with.

But counter acted that by punching well above out weight against teams that have had a positive nett spend over the last 3 transfer windows. Our squad is painfully thin and a few injuries have showed this to be the case with our bench resembling a creche. All things considered we have done well with that squad to be in with a shot of top 4 at this stage rather than should be home and hosed.

[NarutoReds]

www.espnfc.com.

ESPN FC caught up with former AC Milan, Fiorentina and Brentford set-piece coach Gianni Vio for insight into how Liverpool can cure their biggest defensive Achilles' heel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

ESPN FC: Klopp uses a zonal system to make up for the lack of height in his team. Is he right to use this approach?
 
Vio:
In my opinion, there isn't a system that does not concede goals. Man-for-man, zonal, mixed -- all these systems have weakness points. For example, if you mark zonal and I put five players at the far post, I'm sure that in this space my team is two versus one.
 
If you mark zonal, like Liverpool do now with five or six players, and there is only three players that mark man-to-man, I put players in front of the keeper and ones to pick up the second balls. I can then create some situations where there is a player free because the other [defensive] players just control six yards of space in the box.
Believe me, no solution in defensive organisation is correct for not conceding goals. Offensive situations and offensive set pieces are my job, so I've studied all the weakness points of defensive organisations [at set pieces].

-------------------------------

ESPN FC: From all the teams you've studied, who defends set pieces the best?

Vio:
Germany, and I think it is one of the reasons why Klopp marks like Germany. But Germany's goalkeeper [Manuel Neuer] is the best in the world.

Two things make the difference: the players and training. If I don't have big, big players, then it's necessary to improve the training. Juventus mark man-to-man and they don't concede a lot of goals because they have the best players in Italy.

In every team there is a maximum of two or three players who are very good at headers and can score goals. We have tall players who never score. For example, in Italy, with Juventus it's not necessary to mark all the players because only [Giorgio] Chiellini and [Leonardo] Bonucci [score often]. For Real Madrid, only Sergio Ramos scores. Why do you have to mark the other players?

If I were Liverpool, I would have five players mark zonal and one player marking Ramos, for example -- but not just in the first ball. Liverpool are concentrated in the first ball, but lose the movement in the second ball. You have to mark this player always and stay with him.

-------------------------------

Source: http://www.espnfc.com/club/liverpool/364/blog/post/3112967/set-piece-specialist-vio-qa-liverpool-dead-ball-woes-remain-a-concern

[Lycan]

But counter acted that by punching well above out weight against teams that have had a positive nett spend over the last 3 transfer windows. Our squad is painfully thin and a few injuries have showed this to be the case with our bench resembling a creche. All things considered we have done well with that squad to be in with a shot of top 4 at this stage rather than should be home and hosed.

I get what you're saying about the strength of our squad. And at the beginning of the season if you told me we'd be still in a position where we could still qualify for the CL, at this point of the season, I'd have been more than happy with that. But after seeing us beat these sides with bigger and better squads and getting ourselves in a great position to comfortably qualify for the CL. At one point even potentially challenging for the title. I can't help but feel frustrated that we've fucked up against the sides we should have comfortably beaten. If we'd done our job in just a handful of those games, we'd have qualified by now. We'd be HOME AND HOSED mate.

[SerbianScouser]

Pressure on the lads now to win must be humongous. Will be interesting to see how they cope with it. Having Lallana and Sturridge on the bench would be good options to have.

[Zaffarious]

i think it will benefit us seeing the other results first. give us the extra kick up the arse.

[woof]

We now need to win every game and hope that the chasing pack (I'm hoping Man U) fall away. Can't afford any more blips

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

I just remembered these lot lost to 10 man hull ... so yeah, we should beat them and we shouldn't make such hard work of it either

[mrantarctica]

We have really missed Mane. When he has missed games we have missed out on crucial fixtures. I hope we can find some inspiration without him against Watford. Lose to Watford and I think that's our top 4 chances pretty much hanging by a thread.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Every game is D Day for us at this point. Failure to win in this game, just puts more pressure on the following one. I think we will handle it better away from home actually.

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

We have really missed Mane. When he has missed games we have missed out on crucial fixtures. I hope we can find some inspiration without him against Watford. Lose to Watford and I think that's our top 4 chances pretty much hanging by a thread.

Our offense is obviously weaker now that we have less options. Teams are playing Coutinho to prevent him cutting into the middle for the shot, that is obvious. They are man marking Origi goalside because he can't hurt them when he's not in behind the defense. They're letting Clyne have the ball a lot because he's been weak offensively for a while now. They're letting Milner have space out wide because they know he can't cross. Our midfield founders when they get bypassed, we've lacked the offensive contribution of Lallana for quite a while now. We're an open book for the opposition at the moment, because we don't have the options. That's the crux of the problem really. All this talk of us conceding set pieces and the like is just a red herring. We've won with this nucleus because of our offense, and when it has clicked, we win in spite of our defensive frailties. And the latter won't be fixed anytime soon without an addition or two in the summer.

Klopp has to be brave and give Woodburn a chance now, in my opinion. We need more energy that Origi hasn't given us in a while now. He's shown signs of improvement, but more often than not, it seems that he's been marked out of games with quite an minimal amount of effort. Woodburn I think will give a new sense of creativity and unpredictablilty to the front three that's been missing since Mane's been injured. His movement is sublime for such a young player, he has a sense of finishing for such a young player that I haven't seen since Fowler at his age. And I think his ability to bring other players and runners into the mix is certainly more crucial considering that Origi currently lacks that in his toolbox. Or more to the point, Origi has been unwilling to be that runner, he's only been averaging 0.4 offsides per game, as he isn't playing on the shoulder enough for such a fast and strong player. Nor has he been able to be the target man that we needed late on in games, his hold up play has been too hot and cold.

And what a great stage for such a young player to make a mark in this team. To hell with this we need to protect him because he's too young. He's the same age as Pulisic was last year when he got his chance to break into the Dortmund team. I don't know whether or not he's ready, but I think he's got to be given a chance, at the very least to give Klopp an idea whether or not he can be depended upon next season (which may impact our transfer business).

[Marty McFly]

Our offense is obviously weaker now that we have less options. Teams are playing Coutinho to prevent him cutting into the middle for the shot, that is obvious. They are man marking Origi goalside because he can't hurt them when he's not in behind the defense. They're letting Clyne have the ball a lot because he's been weak offensively for a while now. They're letting Milner have space out wide because they know he can't cross. Our midfield founders when they get bypassed, we've lacked the offensive contribution of Lallana for quite a while now. We're an open book for the opposition at the moment, because we don't have the options. That's the crux of the problem really. All this talk of us conceding set pieces and the like is just a red herring. We've won with this nucleus because of our offense, and when it has clicked, we win in spite of our defensive frailties. And the latter won't be fixed anytime soon without an addition or two in the summer.

Klopp has to be brave and give Woodburn a chance now, in my opinion. We need more energy that Origi hasn't given us in a while now. He's shown signs of improvement, but more often than not, it seems that he's been marked out of games with quite an minimal amount of effort. Woodburn I think will give a new sense of creativity and unpredictablilty to the front three that's been missing since Mane's been injured. His movement is sublime for such a young player, he has a sense of finishing for such a young player that I haven't seen since Fowler at his age. And I think his ability to bring other players and runners into the mix is certainly more crucial considering that Origi currently lacks that in his toolbox. Or more to the point, Origi has been unwilling to be that runner, he's only been averaging 0.4 offsides per game, as he isn't playing on the shoulder enough for such a fast and strong player. Nor has he been able to be the target man that we needed late on in games, his hold up play has been too hot and cold.

And what a great stage for such a young player to make a mark in this team. To hell with this we need to protect him because he's too young. He's the same age as Pulisic was last year when he got his chance to break into the Dortmund team. I don't know whether or not he's ready, but I think he's got to be given a chance, at the very least to give Klopp an idea whether or not he can be depended upon next season (which may impact our transfer business).

As romantic as it sounds and allowing the good practical points you've made, I can't see any hope in hell of Klopp starting a kid (albeit such a talented kid) in a match of this magnitude and pressure. That's the definition of putting him in the spotlight, which Klopp pretty much vows not to do (- Stoke was an anomaly with 2 of our front 3 having to sit on the bench). Still if by some miracle it happens and works, I'll happily eat every hat I own.

Origi should have big enough and broad enough shoulders to step up to the plate. On his day I've seen him score every type of goal, so he's probably not as limited as suggested.

[JoeCole]

They're not in the bottom half so we'll win

[Bend It Like Aurelio]

As romantic as it sounds and allowing the good practical points you've made, I can't see any hope in hell of Klopp starting a kid (albeit such a talented kid) in a match of this magnitude and pressure. That's the definition of putting him in the spotlight, which Klopp pretty much vows not to do (- Stoke was an anomaly with 2 of our front 3 having to sit on the bench). Still if by some miracle it happens and works, I'll happily eat every hat I own.

Origi should have big enough and broad enough shoulders to step up to the plate. On his day I've seen him score every type of goal, so he's probably not as limited as suggested.

Not limited is Origi, no, but we need a different look. It is too easy to defend against us at the moment, we just need to rejig the front 3 in order to provide that offensive spark that we've been missing. If we had more on the bench at the moment, I probably wouldn't have suggested Woodburn. But even so, 17 nowadays isn't such a terribly young age for players to make their mark (we as a team often do give teenagers a chance), and even though Klopp has been at pains to point out that they need to protect Woodburn, I would argue that Watford isn't such a terrible place to put him in.

At the very least, at an away ground, he would be insulated against the moaners at Anfield. And having him in the lineup would in fact take less pressure off the team one might argue. Established players generally feel more pressure to perform than precocious talents who aren't expected to. You can be certain that Origi himself is under pressure to cement his place in the first team for next season, I would imagine that he's probably more susceptible to 'try to hard', so to speak. Woodburn, for all his tender years, looks assured everytime I've seen him step on the pitch for us.

It isn't a far fetched idea. Though honestly I would give this scenario happening only a 20% chance or so. Nevertheless, I think this match is a great time to put him in, at least give him 45 minutes to work with. And giving the last three teams something else to think about for their preparation isn't such a bad idea I think.

[mrantarctica]

...snip....

Agree with many points here.

Origi, IMHO, just doesn't do enough. He's much more effective with other pacy players running into space, distributing the ball quickly. He's the kind of striker that is good when there's a bit of disarray in the box. He's a decent finisher. Against organised teams he doesn't really work defenders over, make particularly clever runs or bring others into the game.

I think we'd be better with Firmino playing central, Coutinho out on the left and then examining who we could play on the right. Maybe this is Woodburn, maybe it is someone else. Perhaps Moreno should get a run at LB and we bring Milner higher up the pitch.

We don't have a lot of depth so there are few options to be honest. There's a distinct lack of pace and creativity in our front 3 with Mane out.

[RogerTheRed]

Come on Redmen!!
As everyone is saying, this is must win now. They are spluttering so a decent performance should ensure the three points come our way. Lallana back is significant, expect it will be in place of Lucas. Hope Lovren learns from his dive in disaster on Sunday.

[Felch Aid]

The only threat I see here is if we allow Watford to run at us.

They've looked distinctly average for large chunks of the season and they'll probably change manager again at the end of the season.

I think it might suit us if they bombard forward and defensively they're as fragile as us. My only worry is if Deeney or one of the other's run's through the midfield similar to what happened when we played Swansea at home and it all went to shit.

I think our only form of defence is attack unfortunately so we may as well unleash hell every game and hope for the best.

[JackWard33]

I just remembered these lot lost to 10 man hull ... so yeah, we should beat them and we shouldn't make such hard work of it either

I've been trying to work out how they have so many points on the board ??!!!

[rafathegaffa83]

We just need a win. Don't care how we get it. These have been on the beach mentally for weeks in away games (the last away game they won was against Arsenal in January). However, their home record has been quite good: only three losses at home since September (losing 4-1 to Spurs on New Year's Day , 1-0 to Stoke and 4-3 to Southampton). They  won't be getting relegated, but they have a very difficult remaining set of fixtures: Liverpool (H), Leicester (A), Everton (A), Chelsea (A), Man City (H)

[Red_Irishman]

Was looking for th opinions of some Watford fans on this game in my boredom and stumbled across this.

http://www.wfcforums.com/showthread.php?60053-Watford-v-Liverpool-1st-May-2017

Really is bottom of the barrel stuff. A hateful crew. The last post in particular is worrying. Hope we smash them.

[Caston]

Was looking for th opinions of some Watford fans on this game in my boredom and stumbled across this.

http://www.wfcforums.com/showthread.php?60053-Watford-v-Liverpool-1st-May-2017

Really is bottom of the barrel stuff. A hateful crew. The last post in particular is worrying. Hope we smash them.

Strange stuff 

[Petadroli]

Strange stuff

Agree.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Was looking for th opinions of some Watford fans on this game in my boredom and stumbled across this.

http://www.wfcforums.com/showthread.php?60053-Watford-v-Liverpool-1st-May-2017

Really is bottom of the barrel stuff. A hateful crew. The last post in particular is worrying. Hope we smash them.

I think he's trying very very hard to take the piss and he just ends up looking thick. That's the first time I've seen someone say that a 6-1 win for the winning team was "embarrassing" . And this

With Watford’s current progression under the ownership of Mr Pozzo and our very own Messiah Walter Mazzarri, it’s not totally out of the realms of possibility that we may actually win the Premier League Title before they do.

ok then

[swoopy]

Was looking for th opinions of some Watford fans on this game in my boredom and stumbled across this.

http://www.wfcforums.com/showthread.php?60053-Watford-v-Liverpool-1st-May-2017

Really is bottom of the barrel stuff. A hateful crew. The last post in particular is worrying. Hope we smash them.

Last season

The Kopsters were handed a bit of a beating last time they visited the Vic, with our ex fourth choice striker Ighalo taking them to the cleaners. Klopp’s gamble of playing Ed Sheeran in goal failed as he dropped a routine corner at the feet of Nathan Ake to give us the lead and then back up striker Ighalo finished them off with a brace.

Christ

Just fucking win Liverpool!

[Lycan]

Was looking for th opinions of some Watford fans on this game in my boredom and stumbled across this.

http://www.wfcforums.com/showthread.php?60053-Watford-v-Liverpool-1st-May-2017

Really is bottom of the barrel stuff. A hateful crew. The last post in particular is worrying. Hope we smash them.

Ahh, the return of the also-rans. Although also-rans is probably rather generous nowadays as they really are a top 6 side at best. It’s like the poor kids looking up at their successful peers and wistfully wondering whether they’ll ever be able to polish the boots of the likes of Chelsea, Spurs or Man United let along sit at the same table ever again. For all their hype, for all the media love, yet again they flail their arms around wondering where the next trophy will ever come from.

What is it, like 40 years now since the old league title last dragged it’s weary legs out of a skip in Merseyside and back to the real world of decent football teams?

With Watford’s current progression under the ownership of Mr Pozzo and our very own Messiah Walter Mazzarri, it’s not totally out of the realms of possibility that we may actually win the Premier League Title before they do.

As for the new messiah, he came, he saw, he had a little moan about a few teams that dared to beat his almighty reds, then kinda cowered away, with his broken glasses between his legs, mumbling something in German about how it was never like this in the motherland and how nun ist die Kacke am Dampfen.

This time next year Kloppers?

Liverpool were pretty poor last time to be honest. With all our injuries we were pretty much running a skeleton crew, heck I think one of the players 12 year old child was on our wing. And they really failed to put us in our place. 6-1 was an embarrassment to them. They fluffed their chances, passed all over the place, and looked less like the skillful and adept Liverpool teams of the 80’s and more like the chuckle brothers (including the 85 year old one Jimmy who just married a 26 year old!). To me, to you?

You can’t look too far past a Watford win on Monday. Liverpool seem to have taken on the mantle of end of season capitulators, stealing the title from Spurs who regularly collapsed in the past but seem to have managed to maintain their ongoing push for the title, a team Liverpool and their fans must surely now look up to as the superior team.

3-1 Watford.

Klopp meltdown.

Liverpool down to 5th with Arsenal breathing down their necks.

What an odd post.

Just beat this nothing club Reds.

[naka]

Every game is D Day for us at this point. Failure to win in this game, just puts more pressure on the following one. I think we will handle it better away from home actually.

Actually think the next four games are the biggest test we have had since the Chelsea game.
Win them we get fourth and hopefully we can go into transfer window selling a vision
Lose and not get top four might cause serious damage throughout the club,
Hopefully Danny and adam fit and a 2-0 win

[sms1986]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thisisanfield.com/2017/04/jurgen-klopp-confirms-adam-lallana-daniel-sturridge-fit-face-watford/amp/

Great news for Monday!

[RogerTheRed]

Definitely a bonus having Sturridge as an option form the bench

[Gerry83]

Come on Redmen!!
As everyone is saying, this is must win now. They are spluttering so a decent performance should ensure the three points come our way. Lallana back is significant, expect it will be in place of Lucas. Hope Lovren learns from his dive in disaster on Sunday.

Wouldnt bet on it- would be great if one of the mancs clubs messed it up over the weekend but both look like easy fixtures for them on paper. Would be great going into that game knowing we could pull 4 points clear etc

[sms1986]

Wouldnt bet on it- would be great if one of the mancs clubs messed it up over the weekend but both look like easy fixtures for them on paper. Would be great going into that game knowing we could pull 4 points clear etc

Watford looks like an easy game to us on paper but many here wouldn't call it an easy game for us. They might not have it any easier than us.

[UntouchableLuis]

One of those games you have to score early in. The desperation for the 3 points will be felt.

[Keita Success]

Problem with these sort of games is that it always is gonna to take something special for us to score first.

[sms1986]

Problem with these sort of games is that it always is gonna to take something special for us to score first.

We're the best in the league at coming back to win from a losing position.