Topic: How will you be voting in the General Election on June 8th?

[TepidT2O]

Indeed, you're right. Tories are not angels, and I don't agree with absolutely everything they say or do. But that's not the point; you asked what lives Labour have wrecked.

For the record, I oppose these stupid foreign wars whether Tories or Labour start them.

Fucking hell... you're not shitting me....

[Cu Chulainn]

You don't have the class to be a toff. I picture you more as a loadsamoney wannabe.

I'm a working-class landscape gardener from a small village in the South West. I'm neither rich nor poor; I do okay, but could be better off. Regardless, I've got no desire to be rich, so the loadsamoney wannabe thing is not accurate.

I wouldn't want to be a toff anyway. Imagine the heating bills the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg must run up in their mansions.

[jDJ]

There is no credible path to them getting the levers of power. None whatsoever.

Not a chance I'm prepared to take.  Voting for labour undeniably strengthens their leader's position.  I'm not a labour supporter, I'm someone who sometimes votes labour, they need to know people like me won't even look in their direction with the current policy focus, they need an electoral disaster and then the loons will crawl under the rock under which they've come and the more thoughtful, intelligent, moderate voices can be heard again.

[Cliff Bastin]

There is disagreeing with a policy, and there is voting Tory. Voting Tory is voting for the continuation of the current policies that are demonstrably causing incredible harm. You don't have the class to be a toff. I picture you more as a loadsamoney wannabe.

You have not judged your audience too well.

Metaphorically, pretty well yes. It is grossly insensitive and provocative. And it smells.

Aren't most people? Do you not work for money and want to earn as much as possible? No one works for free.

[Cliff Bastin]

May's Tories are not a mainstream party by any definition that would have held even 2 years ago.

The Tories are as mainstream as you can get. Full of Blairite politicians who are interested in power. Corbyn is interested in ideology. He would not put power above ideology which is one of the reasons he won't be Prime Minister.

[Mag Hull]

The Tories are as mainstream as you can get. Full of Blairite politicians who are interested in power. Corbyn is interested in ideology. He would not put power above ideology which is one of the reasons he won't be Prime Minister.

I think you're confusing mainstream with ideology - the Tories haven't swerved from their ideology since the 80s; if anything they're more entrenched

[Cliff Bastin]

I think you're confusing mainstream with ideology - the Tories haven't swerved from their ideology since the 80s; if anything they're more entrenched

David Cameron made them much softer compared to Thatcher to the eyes of the electorate. They know how to adapt and change with the times. Labour on the other hand have went from what worked in the late 20th century and early 2000s to returning to something that got battered in the 80s. It obviously makes no sense to not move with the times.

[Mag Hull]

David Cameron made them much softer compared to Thatcher to the eyes of the electorate. They know how to adapt and change with the times. Labour on the other hand have went from what worked in the late 20th century and early 2000s to returning to something that got battered in the 80s. It obviously makes no sense to not move with the times.

Nah, dismantling the welfare state, rampant privatisation and destruction of unions/workers' rights have pretty much been a constant theme - Cameron enforced austerity on the back of the financial crash against the recommendations of the majority of financial institutions - IMF etc.

[SP]

Aren't most people? Do you not work for money and want to earn as much as possible? No one works for free.

Loadsamoney was about the attitude, not the money. I do not want to earn as much as possible. I could double my income, but would decimate my quality of life.

Money is necessary to live, but is not a goal in itself.

[SP]

David Cameron made them much softer compared to Thatcher to the eyes of the electorate. They know how to adapt and change with the times. Labour on the other hand have went from what worked in the late 20th century and early 2000s to returning to something that got battered in the 80s. It obviously makes no sense to not move with the times.

Cameron was socially liberal, whilst being the same old story on spending.

[Cu Chulainn]

Money is necessary to live, but is not a goal in itself.

We absolutely agree on something!

[TepidT2O]

Loadsamoney was about the attitude, not the money. I do not want to earn as much as possible. I could double my income, but would decimate my quality of life.

Money is necessary to live, but is not a goal in itself.

But football is.

[jDJ]

Fair enough. It's providing the best quality of life to my family which motivates me.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

David Cameron made them much softer compared to Thatcher to the eyes of the electorate. They know how to adapt and change with the times. Labour on the other hand have went from what worked in the late 20th century and early 2000s to returning to something that got battered in the 80s. It obviously makes no sense to not move with the times.

cameron was basically as good as you are likely to get from the Tory party

[Jake]

This thread might change about 11 people's minds, so it's not really worth arguing about is it?

This thread on 10 forums is 110 people

100 forums....

[-HH-]

Live in a Lib Dem/Tory marginal. Will be voting Lib Dem and hating myself for being a member of one party and voting for another.

We desperately need PR in this country.

[filopastry]

Live in a Lib Dem/Tory marginal. Will be voting Lib Dem and hating myself for being a member of one party and voting for another.

We desperately need PR in this country.

We do indeed, but have probably rarely been less likely to get it.

[-HH-]

We do indeed, but have probably rarely been less likely to get it.

When I was helping out a group called Make Votes Matter, we became aware of 5 Tory MPs in favour of PR. More and more Labour MPs are becoming supportive.

The biggest issue is that most Tory MPs will call you anti democratic for ignoring the result of the 2011 referendum despite the fact that no PR option was ever on the ballot.

I also think that the decision on voting systems should be taken out of the hands of those who benefit directly from it. Labour and Tory MPs are more likely to stay in their jobs under FPTP. Clear conflict of interest.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Aren't most people? Do you not work for money and want to earn as much as possible? No one works for free.

It might surprise you to find out that not everyone wants to 'earn as much as possible' - many would rather be at a place they like doing a job they enjoy in an area they want to live.

It probably would surprise you as well that some people are more than happy to pay their taxes as they feel they are contributing to the society in which they belong. They want to fund the NHS, the Police, the Schools, the Infrastructure and they want to use their taxes to help those less well off. They want to help kids get a good education, they want to help older people get help and assistance in their old age, they want a safe place where everyone contributes and everyone pays their way.

[CornerFlag]

When I was helping out a group called Make Votes Matter, we became aware of 5 Tory MPs in favour of PR. More and more Labour MPs are becoming supportive.

The biggest issue is that most Tory MPs will call you anti democratic for ignoring the result of the 2011 referendum despite the fact that no PR option was ever on the ballot.

I also think that the decision on voting systems should be taken out of the hands of those who benefit directly from it. Labour and Tory MPs are more likely to stay in their jobs under FPTP. Clear conflict of interest.

A compromise could be the merging of two constituencies (so one MP elected for a FPTP system) with a second MP taken from a "pool" the particular party has with the number of these made up whatever percentage from the total number of votes that part got.  If the number comes up short then you go down the list until the 325 is reached.

Eg with the 325 MPs and a total number of votes of 30,691,680 you'd have a split of:
Conservative: 120 MPs
Labour: 99 MPs
UKIP: 41 MPs
Lib Dem: 26 MPs
SNP: 15 MPs
Green: 12 MPs
DUP: 2 MPs
Plaid Cymru: 2 MPs
Sinn Fein: 2 MPs
UUP: 1 MP
SDLP: 1 MP
Alliance: 1 MP
TUSC: 1 MP
National Health Action: 1 MP
TUV: 1 MP

George Galloway's Respect would JUST miss out.  Shame.

[adruk87]

I'd vote Labour, but they don't have a sniff in my constituency, will vote Lib Dems as they held the seat for 14 years before the last GE. Hopefully dislodge the Tories.

[Devon Red]

I'm a working-class landscape gardener from a small village in the South West. I'm neither rich nor poor; I do okay, but could be better off. Regardless, I've got no desire to be rich, so the loadsamoney wannabe thing is not accurate.

I wouldn't want to be a toff anyway. Imagine the heating bills the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg must run up in their mansions.

We live in roughly the same area and I'm guessing have roughly the same income, I'm really curious what Conservative policies appeal to you over, say, Lib Dem alternatives? I know that Labour don't register much in this area for historic reasons, but I would be up for a discussion about Tory versus Lib Dem options.

[-HH-]

A compromise could be the merging of two constituencies (so one MP elected for a FPTP system) with a second MP taken from a "pool" the particular party has with the number of these made up whatever percentage from the total number of votes that part got.  If the number comes up short then you go down the list until the 325 is reached.

Eg with the 325 MPs and a total number of votes of 30,691,680 you'd have a split of:
Conservative: 120 MPs
Labour: 99 MPs
UKIP: 41 MPs
Lib Dem: 26 MPs
SNP: 15 MPs
Green: 12 MPs
DUP: 2 MPs
Plaid Cymru: 2 MPs
Sinn Fein: 2 MPs
UUP: 1 MP
SDLP: 1 MP
Alliance: 1 MP
TUSC: 1 MP
National Health Action: 1 MP
TUV: 1 MP

George Galloway's Respect would JUST miss out.  Shame.

That's not entirely dissimilar to AMS which is a form of PR.

[CornerFlag]

That's not entirely dissimilar to AMS which is a form of PR.

And there I was thinking I was just a clever fuck.   I feel like it would be less likely to be slapped down like AV was because it still contains the familiarity of FPTP.  People would probably kick off over the constituency changes though, Wallasey and Birkenhead would probably be under one while Wirral West and South would be another under that system (for my local area).

[Lush is the best medicine...]

A compromise could be the merging of two constituencies (so one MP elected for a FPTP system) with a second MP taken from a "pool" the particular party has with the number of these made up whatever percentage from the total number of votes that part got.  If the number comes up short then you go down the list until the 325 is reached.

Eg with the 325 MPs and a total number of votes of 30,691,680 you'd have a split of:
Conservative: 120 MPs
Labour: 99 MPs
UKIP: 41 MPs
Lib Dem: 26 MPs
SNP: 15 MPs
Green: 12 MPs
DUP: 2 MPs
Plaid Cymru: 2 MPs
Sinn Fein: 2 MPs
UUP: 1 MP
SDLP: 1 MP
Alliance: 1 MP
TUSC: 1 MP
National Health Action: 1 MP
TUV: 1 MP

George Galloway's Respect would JUST miss out.  Shame.

one downside is that independent candidates campaigning on local issues especially, like communities where fracking is a big issue would have no chance of getting in and it'd limit MPs to those in parties.

If anything PR should be done by each country in the union who gets a set number of MPs, not sure how many SNP seats would be there if you did the Scottish seats split by PR compared to your method?

[filopastry]

The easiest way for the UK to start to move towards PR would probably just be to replace the House of Lords with an Upper House elected on that basis.

[Statto Red]

Think, I will spoil my vote, as none of the parties deserve my vote.

[alonsoisared]

Think, I will spoil my vote, as none of the parties deserve my vote.

What about the people relying on food banks, do they deserve a political party who'd look after them better? Or should we just not bother?

[Red Beret]

Think, I will spoil my vote, as none of the parties deserve my vote.

Ordinarily I would respect such a decision.  However I will qualify that with this quote from the 12th Doctor:

"Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones.  But you still have to choose."

If you feel that spoiling your ballot is your best option in an era of mass homelessness, foodbanks and permanent NHS crisis then I urge you to reconsider your decision.

[oldfordie]

Think, I will spoil my vote, as none of the parties deserve my vote.

Well you know the old saying, you can ignore politics but politics won't ignore you.
A low turnout will suit the Torys down to the ground.

[Libertine]

one downside is that independent candidates campaigning on local issues especially, like communities where fracking is a big issue would have no chance of getting in and it'd limit MPs to those in parties.

You only have to look at the situation in Ireland to realise that wouldn't be a bad thing - the Dail is packed with Independents which makes forming stable governments almost impossible now. Local issues should be tackled at the local level.

The easiest way for the UK to start to move towards PR would probably just be to replace the House of Lords with an Upper House elected on that basis.

Absolutely. I think that is a good compromise between the advantages of PR and having one MP per constituency. The latter would be better with AV of course but that was far too complicated for the Britich electorate of course.

[Xabi Gerrard]

There's been a lot of talk of the Lib Dems taking Labour votes, but is there any hope of many of the 39% of Tories who voted remain also voting Lib Dem? As loads of people who voted Conservative in 2015 were floating voters rather than hardcore Tory members there has to be a chance, right? I mean, as a group of people who tend to love making money then surely enough of them must realise that Brexit means economic suicide and will hit their pockets hard.

[Danny55]

There's been a lot of talk of the Lib Dems taking Labour votes, but is there any hope of many of the 39% of Tories who voted remain also voting Lib Dem? As loads of people who voted Conservative in 2015 were floating voters rather than hardcore Tory members there has to be a chance, right? I mean, as a group of people who tend to love making money then surely enough of them must realise that Brexit means economic suicide and will hit their pockets hard.

They'll be voting Tory because the majority of people will do as theyre told by The Mail and The S*n.

[west_london_red]

They'll be voting Tory because the majority of people will do as theyre told by The Mail and The S*n.

Don't be so sure - look at what happened in Richmond.

[classycarra]

There's been a lot of talk of the Lib Dems taking Labour votes, but is there any hope of many of the 39% of Tories who voted remain also voting Lib Dem? As loads of people who voted Conservative in 2015 were floating voters rather than hardcore Tory members there has to be a chance, right? I mean, as a group of people who tend to love making money then surely enough of them must realise that Brexit means economic suicide and will hit their pockets hard.

Yes, I think some will. I suspect the Lib Dems will gain up to 15-20 seats. Probably the best part of those would, like Richmond, be at the expense of the Cons

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Voted Labour all my life but Corbyn is more up for leaving Europe than the Tories.

Thinking of voting for a progressive party that stands for something.

What's annoying is the number of votes Labour would have gained opposing Brexit

[gazzam1963]

I'm thinking the same too but First off Liverpool is solid labour so a vote for a progressive party will just possibly be a small token on your behalf unless a  really good pro European figure stood as an independent . But even going pro Europe as a policy still means corbyn in charge and he's just not up for the job at all , even today announcing 4 bank holidays for the saints of each country what's that about , having a day off because of some mythical figure ...whoever decided on that as a pledge needs sacking .

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yeah my area is solid Labour and to be fair Maria Eagle does a good job.

[Kenny's Jacket]

having a day off because of some mythical figure ...whoever decided on that as a pledge needs sacking .

There goes Easter and Christmas then.

[gazzam1963]

Yeah but they were pretty much decided hundreds of years ago and anyway I like chocolate , presents and getting pissed