Author Topic: Twin Peaks  (Read 47404 times)

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #160 on: April 1, 2015, 12:45:20 pm »
A lot of people consider the middle of season two to be weak.  I don't.  It isn't as interesting or as strange as what came before or what comes after, but I love the characters and the town so I still really enjoyed the episodes, there is a lull, but still much to admire.

The only time the show tests my patience (I've watched it at least five times) is when James Hurley is on screen.  I've always hated that wet son of a bitch.

Offline S

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Twin Peaks
« Reply #161 on: April 1, 2015, 01:05:09 pm »
A lot of people consider the middle of season two to be weak.  I don't.  It isn't as interesting or as strange as what came before or what comes after, but I love the characters and the town so I still really enjoyed the episodes, there is a lull, but still much to admire.

The only time the show tests my patience (I've watched it at least five times) is when James Hurley is on screen.  I've always hated that wet son of a bitch.
I agree completely with regards to the town and its characters. Those are the two reasons I carried on watching regardless. There were certain points where I got the feeling they were kind of making it up as they went along though.

Off the top of my head I'd probably say Dick is the character I cared for the least.

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #162 on: April 1, 2015, 01:25:37 pm »
I agree completely with regards to the town and its characters. Those are the two reasons I carried on watching regardless. There were certain points where I got the feeling they were kind of making it up as they went along though.

Off the top of my head I'd probably say Dick is the character I cared for the least.
Lynch and Frost were forced to conclude the Laura Palmer story earlier than they wanted due to network pressure, ABC wanted the murder solved by the end of season one originally.  Lynch basically jumped ship to work on Wild At Heart and it was left to Mark Frost to steady things, he admits he struggled and things did seem aimless at times.

I'm a massive fan of David Lynch, but he did leave the show in the lurch, Mark Frost doesn't get the respect he deserves, he was much more involved than David Lynch.


Offline S

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #163 on: April 1, 2015, 01:35:48 pm »
Lynch and Frost were forced to conclude the Laura Palmer story earlier than they wanted due to network pressure, ABC wanted the murder solved by the end of season one originally.  Lynch basically jumped ship to work on Wild At Heart and it was left to Mark Frost to steady things, he admits he struggled and things did seem aimless at times.

I'm a massive fan of David Lynch, but he did leave the show in the lurch, Mark Frost doesn't get the respect he deserves, he was much more involved than David Lynch.
I watched that DVD special, Secrets from Another Place, the other day and was really surprised to see just how involved Frost was. Like you said, it's far more his project than it is Lynch's. I think some of the cast and crew mentioned how he doesn't get the credit he deserves too.

Rob you seem to be something of a Twin Peaks authority on RAWK, so I'm guessing you've seen that documentary. How good is the part where Badalamenti is playing through the soundtrack? The main titles and Laura's theme are two of my favourite soundtrack pieces ever.

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #164 on: April 1, 2015, 01:58:11 pm »
Without Badalamenti's score I think Twin Peaks would be vastly different.  I can't remember if it's in Secrets From Another Place or some other extra, but Lynch sat in on sessions and would ask Badalamenti to score based on mood or something like that.  I have the main theme as my ringtone (it's always on silent but that's beside the point).  The main theme is a fantastic piece of music, it instantly takes me back to Twin Peaks.

The Bluray set is well worth picking up.  It contains over 100 minutes of deleted scenes from Fire Walk With Me and each episode has been scanned and remastered, even the Log Lady intros (which I always found pointless),

I think the Fire Walk With Me scenes are 'available' online somewhere.

Offline S

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #165 on: April 1, 2015, 02:02:01 pm »
Without Badalamenti's score I think Twin Peaks would be vastly different.  I can't remember if it's in Secrets From Another Place or some other extra, but Lynch sat in on sessions and would ask Badalamenti to score based on mood or something like that.  I have the main theme as my ringtone (it's always on silent but that's beside the point).  The main theme is a fantastic piece of music, it instantly takes me back to Twin Peaks.
Yeah, the part you mention is on Secrets from Another Place. I know exactly what you mean about the main theme. No show has an atmosphere like Twin Peaks and that's largely down to the score.

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #166 on: April 1, 2015, 07:03:20 pm »
señor "Frozen Face" (as well call him), is truly one of the weakest characters I think I've ever seen in a TV programme. Aside of the occasional moments of unintentional humour, he is not only a poorly written character, but he's a poorly acted character - If you watch it into the second series, you can literally see the inspiration drain out of the faces of anyone acting on screen with him. It is the same with a few characters though, Leo Johnson for me is the pick of the bunch - How his actor got away with getting as many runs as he did is beyond me.

I disagree with Rob on this matter and have done on many occasions. I remember we had a big disagreement over something to do with Lynch's input into the programme on series two, but for the life of me, I can not remember what it was. I think it might have been something to do with Lynch and Frost's overall view of the direction of the programme. If memory serves, there are stories to a varying degree with regards to Lynch and Frost's working relationship past series two. Whatever you believe is up to you, but to say that the dip in quality has nothing to do with Lynch and Frost's post-series one input (or lack thereof), is, if I may borrow a quote from a wise old fella:

Quote from: Boromir
Tis folly...
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Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #167 on: April 1, 2015, 07:46:16 pm »
ABC determined the direction of the program,  it's that simple.  Lynch and Frost didn't want the mystery of Laura Palmer solved until much, much later, they had outlines that lasted at least two seasons.  ABC wanted it much earlier and forced it upon them, they actually wanted it at the end of season one but a compromise was made.  There was also supposed to be a story arc about Cooper and Audrey that was dropped due to MacLachlan and Flynn-Boyle being in a relationship and the latter asking ABC for it to be scrapped, something the network agreed to do.

There are two main reasons the show suffered during season two, the main one being studio interference.  Timetables were changed, outlines scrapped and plot arcs dropped completely.  The second reason is Lynch leaving after directing episode two, he returned to direct the Lonely Souls episode and then didn't return until the finale.  Mark Frost was showrunner, Lynch had involvement (even at production level) in four episodes of the second season, even the finale was written without him (Lynch changed some of the Red Room stuff).

The second season was basically reshaped at short notice and by his own admission, Frost struggled, probably because when he devised the show with Lynch he had an outline, the outline was scrapped and he found himself flying solo.
« Last Edit: April 1, 2015, 07:59:29 pm by rob1408 »

Offline Lucas21

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #168 on: April 6, 2015, 12:46:30 am »
Looks like season 3 is cancelled again. David Lynch quit and several cast members saying it's not going to happen

Bummer

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #169 on: April 6, 2015, 12:56:24 am »
Looks like season 3 is cancelled again. David Lynch quit and several cast members saying it's not going to happen

Bummer

It's stil going ahead apparently, just without David Lynch.   It's going to be a massive mess, lack of funding seems to be the reason Lynch left.

Well done Showtime.  At least I Won't have to buy a new boxset. 
« Last Edit: April 6, 2015, 01:00:06 am by rob1408 »

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #170 on: April 6, 2015, 01:53:37 am »
Nah - Reckon it's a power play myself. I can't remember whether it was on here or on another forum that I go on; but I did say that it would come down to budget.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was all down to pay - It's always about pay.  :butt
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Offline Xxavi

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #171 on: April 6, 2015, 02:07:16 am »
Wow, what a disappointment if this doesn't happen.

Hoping they get a decent backing and all actors and Lynch are back.

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #172 on: April 6, 2015, 07:43:42 am »
Nah - Reckon it's a power play myself. I can't remember whether it was on here or on another forum that I go on; but I did say that it would come down to budget.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was all down to pay - It's always about pay.  :butt
I thought it was a power play initially, but the statement from Lynch, him ringing the entire cast to tell them he's left and their subsequent messages of support probably suggest otherwise.  His salary would of been formalised before the announcement so it isn't that, there were rumours about Lynch wanting a hefty backend deal though, again that's something that would/should of been sorted prior to the announcement.  His leaving is apparently linked to shooting budgets, the rumours started not long after the project was announced, about two weeks after the project got the greenlight Lynch was hinting at creative differences (ie budget).

The scripts, which Showtime own, are finished, some of the sets are up.  It'll happen without Lynch, just like the overwhelming majority of season two.
« Last Edit: April 6, 2015, 08:09:22 am by rob1408 »

Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #173 on: April 6, 2015, 10:56:13 am »
I imagine he wanted it done right or not at all, and to fulfill that vision he felt he required a proper feature-esque budget throughout the entire filming. Totally reasonable for a cultural TV event as huge and eagerly anticpated as this, if you ask me, and though undoubtedly expensive, would have lit up the small screen and made loads back in viewing figures and home video sales.

It'll inevitably be pants if it does go ahead without him now.
"under-promise and over-deliver"

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #174 on: April 6, 2015, 11:27:46 am »
Mark Frost is still attached, he was the main force behind the second season, and Showtime still have the Lynch/Frost penned scripts, as yet none of the cast have dropped out, although I suppose that could now change.  There's still a lot to work with, it's just a shame.  I was hoping the return to Twin Peaks would give Lynch his mojo back and we'd perhaps get another feature out of him, the longer things drag on the less likely that seems.

Showtime still hope he can be lured back, but the letter he wrote seemed pretty definitive to me, he's contacted the cast, he's always been close to Madchen Amick and she says she fully supports his decision.

Not the best news to start the week.

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #175 on: April 6, 2015, 01:34:29 pm »
It's probably a good thing. Sometimes comebacks, or at least trying to recapture a former glory, aren't the best idea and seldom work out regardless of whatever profession it is. I mean, just look at Dumb and Dumber To. Yikes!

Offline Xxavi

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #176 on: April 6, 2015, 01:47:46 pm »
Regarding the cast, I read that one of the lead actresses criticized Showtime on Facebook using strong words. Cannot see cast being happy with Lynch departure.

Anyway, I hope Twin Peaks is back properly, or not at all. Right now, there are a lot of decent shows on TV, and unless Twin Peaks is back at the level of the first season, it will not stand out.

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #177 on: April 6, 2015, 02:11:57 pm »
Radio 4 have a Twin Peaks documentary at 4pm, might be of interest to some.

Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #178 on: April 6, 2015, 03:19:25 pm »
It's probably a good thing. Sometimes comebacks, or at least trying to recapture a former glory, aren't the best idea and seldom work out regardless of whatever profession it is. I mean, just look at Dumb and Dumber To. Yikes!

I'd agree 99% of the time, but there's that feeling with Twin Peaks of it being unfinished, not being fully realised.

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #179 on: April 6, 2015, 03:22:37 pm »
My biggest concern about this was Kyle MacLachlan, and if he could recapture Cooper. He's in Agents of Shield and is pretty fucking terrible. But with no Lynch, my interest has plummeted anyway.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #180 on: April 6, 2015, 05:30:21 pm »
Aye, it is a little strange considering how far into the process they are - I was a little drunk and worse for wear when I had heard, I weren't too happy at all.

Concerning 'Money', I've never considered Lynch to be a man motivated by money. I imagine he has enough of it - However, after 16 months of pre-production, he has now decided to leave over budgetary concerns? I don't want to sound like a peppered teabag here, but as much as talent negotiations go, an Auteur like Lynch (And I suppose Frost), would have a budget in place before writing? Of course, this is moot and anyone's guess could be true. They could write, then budget it; just as much as they could budget, write, then budget again, write, budget again... so on and so forth - I'm not clued up at all on finance/budget, but I imagine budgeting and forecasting to be an ongoing process throughout the pre-production phase.

i guess we will find out over the coming months, but for David Lynch to publicly come out and declare in the way that he did is a bit  of a strange one. I love Lynch, and it is easy to finger the big bad corporation - But it could be Lynch being an obstinate fucker. Dune, (Different kettle of fish altogether), does prove that he has a volatile relationship with financiers. Whether or not this is just co-incidence, he pretty much dusted his hands with Di Laurentis, argued that he had little artistic control (Final Cut), and then left the production. On Dune, he pretty much didn't see eye-to-eye with his fellow writing team, and in the end, ended up writing the bulk of the script (under intense scrutiny and pressure from Raphael Di Laurentis).

So, while you can't rule anything out, it appears too, that once he makes up his mind, he makes up his mind.
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Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #181 on: April 6, 2015, 05:38:01 pm »
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Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #182 on: April 6, 2015, 05:53:27 pm »
A couple of years back a list was published with the net worth of directors, Lynch was worth $60m.  He's since pumped a fortune into the David Lynch Foundation, but I imagine he's still very wealthy.

His 'Dune experience' probably plays a large part, in the book Lynch On Lynch he goes into detail about what the experience was like and how he hates losing control of projects.  He's written a couple of scripts that are now owned by studios and it's something that still appears to upset him.  After reading Lynch On Lynch I have no doubt he'd walk if he felt he was losing creative control, I think it's probably what happened on this occasion.

I'm starting to think his directing days are over.

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #183 on: April 6, 2015, 06:09:52 pm »
Well, it has been a while since his last project and he isn't getting any younger - I was slightly surprised when he announced that he would be directing if I'm totally honest. 
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Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #184 on: April 6, 2015, 06:23:07 pm »
Another bad experience isn't going to help either.  He just seems more interested in art, music and meditation. 

I suppose Malick had a long hiatus and now he's making a film per year so there's always hope.


Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #185 on: April 6, 2015, 06:28:31 pm »
There is all sorts of Tin Hat theories floating about - Some of them are ludicrous.

I mean, it could be, could be a bit of a marketing ploy to keep the drum banging, keep the plebs entertained (So to speak). But, I guess that is positive thinking, which is a bit silly at this point - But, I'm sure we will hear more over the coming weeks.

Right now though, a hundred Hollywood directors will be polishing their CVs.
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Offline Shankly998

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #186 on: April 6, 2015, 06:29:47 pm »
Maybe it's possible someone like Netflix could buy the scripts and give Lynch the money if Showtime decide not to move forward. Hopefully Lynch is able to be a part otherwise i'm not interested in watching.
« Last Edit: April 6, 2015, 06:40:14 pm by Shankly998 »

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #187 on: April 6, 2015, 07:07:04 pm »
Maybe it's possible something like Netflix could buy the scripts and give Lynch the money if Showtime decide not to move forward. Hopefully Lynch is able to be a part otherwise i'm not interested in watching.

This is a nice notion, but won't happen unfortunately. I've seen this posted somewhere else too and it'll be a little bit too far down the tracks to switch production companies - Showtime will have already ploughed money into it. It isn't just about the scripts however, there will have been a good amount of money spent on a multitude of other departmental processes and practices.

In all honesty, I think what we will see is some kind of middle ground. As I suggested in another post, David Lynch appears to be belligerent and awkward (With non-talent anyway). He has walked away from other projects before (under different circumstances) and as Rob has said, it isn't like he needs the cash. If he was so passionate about the programme, I'm fairly sure he could work this out - whether that be a joint venture or a single donor looking for a tax-break. Aside of creative differences, budget/finance is one of the most cited incidents of (what is that word, when a project is pulled?) in Hollywood.

I genuinely believe someone will do a u-turn; and after 16 months of work, I can't see David Lynch, truly hanging up the megaphone just yet. I know there have been reports of him sending out letters, talking to the cast, meeting with execs... So on and so forth...

But obviously, there will be more to this story than meets the eye - It won't be the last we hear of it and right now, I'm honestly finding some of the backlash on the internet, utterly ridiculous and hilarious at the same time. I love David Lynch's work and I always will - I think he is one of the true Auteurs of our time. But it is important to note the baggage that Auteurism carries with it - this is evidenced in the production of Dune.

In truth, no-one will know the inner mindset of David Lynch, but the whole notion of him being the head honch (back to Auteurism), on a programme on TV, on such a big programme, in this 'day in age'... Is a bit naive. I know we have showrunners and such, like Vince Gilligan, Hugo Blick and such - But even these all encompassing Showrunners have a chain of command and still have to answer to someone. As I say, i think we will see some middle ground - I think that middle ground may well be something akin to Series Two of Twin Peaks. Lynch more or less in the background with a team of Directors, Producers and Writers to 'support' him.
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Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #188 on: April 6, 2015, 07:23:35 pm »
Mark Frost is on record saying he don't think the show would work on Netflix.   He'd rather 'give people a chapter at a time rather than the whole book' apparently.

Frost has been remarkably quiet, all this kind of puts him in an awkward spot.

Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #189 on: April 6, 2015, 07:54:17 pm »
Wasn't Blue Velvet with the same De Laurentis clan? Not sure if he was dealing with different family members, but that came out after Dune.

I'm gutted to be honest, even though its still his scripts and so on, the idea of getting to see full blown Lynchian Twin Peaks is mouth watering.

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #190 on: April 6, 2015, 08:23:08 pm »
Wasn't Blue Velvet with the same De Laurentis clan? Not sure if he was dealing with different family members, but that came out after Dune.

I'm gutted to be honest, even though its still his scripts and so on, the idea of getting to see full blown Lynchian Twin Peaks is mouth watering.
It's the same production company.  Lynch struck a deal with Dino De Laurentiis, final cut and complete artistic freedom and Lynch would take half his normal salary and slash the budget.

Warner Bros were initially going to produce it but they read the script and freaked out, a producer rang Lynch and started screaming at him down the phone.

Offline Bird Bird Bird The Bird Is The Word

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #191 on: April 6, 2015, 08:57:41 pm »
It's the same production company.  Lynch struck a deal with Dino De Laurentiis, final cut and complete artistic freedom and Lynch would take half his normal salary and slash the budget.

Warner Bros were initially going to produce it but they read the script and freaked out, a producer rang Lynch and started screaming at him down the phone.

:lmao

I can imagine Lynch loving that.

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #192 on: April 6, 2015, 09:09:23 pm »
Wasn't Blue Velvet with the same De Laurentis clan? Not sure if he was dealing with different family members, but that came out after Dune.

I'm gutted to be honest, even though its still his scripts and so on, the idea of getting to see full blown Lynchian Twin Peaks is mouth watering.

To be fair to all concerned - There is a massive difference between Blue Velvet and Dune.

Dune, some would argue, was destined to 'fail' from the start. Some even argue (Cronenberg being one, if memory serves), that no matter who wrote/directed Dune, that the production had an uphill struggle ahead. Don't forget, Star Wars literally cornered the Sci-Fi market and mostly everyone else were playing catch-up. Add to that....

(Turnaround - That is the word I was looking for above.)

Add to that... I don't know, there has always been something foul about the De Laurentis empire (Both in film and football terms); their films have mostly always had that 'Italian/goth/fascist' (Ok, maybe Fascist is too strong a word), feel to them. Especially some of their 80s fantasy/horror films.

I once saw a profile of DDL on a programme a long time ago - I distinctively remember an interview with someone stating that DDL et al. where said to be 'learning as they went along' (or something to that effect). I'm not sure whether there was any truth to this, but if you look at the likes of Flash Gordon and Conan, even Dune to an extent, you can visibly see similarities in some of their production methods and quality. Now of course, the films carry with them some form of artistic merit, but there was always a feeling of 'cheapness' in some of their films.
« Last Edit: April 6, 2015, 09:10:58 pm by Kidder. »
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Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #193 on: April 8, 2015, 03:38:43 pm »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BO934i9uO1c&feature=youtu.be

I think Showtime are going to come under a fair bit of pressure, whether Lynch has a change of heart, well who knows.

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #194 on: April 9, 2015, 12:10:47 pm »
News is starting to creep out about what the problem actually is.  Variety say the following -

The tussle over the budget emerged after Lynch and Frost turned in the nine scripts they co-wrote and it became clear that the cost of production would be significantly higher than the budgets outlined in the original deal. Sources said Showtime was willing to kick in more coin but asked for concessions in other areas, including the profit participation definitions for Lynch and Frost.

In my opinion that seems like a perfectly reasonable request from Showtime.

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #195 on: April 9, 2015, 12:35:31 pm »
I remember reading about this in a book once - there's a name for it and it happens more times than not on both TV and Film. It has a name, just can't put my finger on it.

So, essentially, it sounds like (I should bold like really), both Lynch and Frost have been asked to do re-drafts, curtailing on some of their locations and/or action. I know this kind of shit happens too when there are too many storylines involving more than 30-40% of regulars. Sometimes you notice in certain programmes how returning cast are sort of 'split' between storylines. You'd think that this would be cheaper, but apparently it isn't - it makes sense if you think about it like, but anyway, that's a different thing altogether.

Both Frost and Lynch are getting on now - Twin Peaks was/is their baby. I know Twin Peaks was quite big when it first aired, but through the '00s, it almost gained a bit of a cult following (probably due to the programmes 'abrupt' end). Point being, who here wouldn't try to suck as much money out of a corporate entity? I was only watching something recently (can't remember which now come to think of it), that stated, talent will always have the upper hand in negotiations, ask for more, no matter what.

Maybe they were just like kids in a candy store?
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Online lionel_messias

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #196 on: April 9, 2015, 01:16:42 pm »
News is starting to creep out about what the problem actually is.  Variety say the following -

The tussle over the budget emerged after Lynch and Frost turned in the nine scripts they co-wrote and it became clear that the cost of production would be significantly higher than the budgets outlined in the original deal. Sources said Showtime was willing to kick in more coin but asked for concessions in other areas, including the profit participation definitions for Lynch and Frost.

In my opinion that seems like a perfectly reasonable request from Showtime.

You'd have to think this will happen, after some wrangling. For everyone concerns David Lynch has to be involved and directing otherwise
this will be like going to bed with a willing Halle Berry only to find you don't have a penis*


*if you are male, the female version would be a decent scenario.
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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #197 on: April 22, 2015, 11:19:08 pm »
Any more news on the whole dispute?

Offline rob1408

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #198 on: April 22, 2015, 11:31:34 pm »
Any more news on the whole dispute?
Nope, nothing.  Basically Showtime are still hoping to get Lynch back, but it seems like he'll have to make concessions.  Something of a standstill.

Bit of trivia though, David Fincher's sister worked on Twin Peaks and appeared in one scene, its her only acting credit.

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Re: Twin Peaks
« Reply #199 on: April 23, 2015, 12:28:53 am »
Nope, nothing.  Basically Showtime are still hoping to get Lynch back, but it seems like he'll have to make concessions.  Something of a standstill.

Bit of trivia though, David Fincher's sister worked on Twin Peaks and appeared in one scene, its her only acting credit.
Thanks Rob.

Do you happen to know what scene?