Author Topic: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original  (Read 11382 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #80 on: February 16, 2012, 04:16:53 pm »
Lucas has made heaps of contradictory claims. I believe that the technical term is that he is full of shit.

Not saying he isn't. But from as far back as I can remember I always remember it being said that there were 9 films.

I also remember him saying after Empire that he'd never, ever, ever make another one.

Expect those next three in 10 years mate :)
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #81 on: February 16, 2012, 04:17:27 pm »
Then he lacks integrity. As you pointed out earlier, this is his baby. His universe. Who cares what a bunch of geeks think they know. These are just bad films with no merit. Or, as I see them; effective merchandising and tie-in generators.

The plot is poor. The characters are unmemorable. The performances are wooden. etc, etc.

What exactly is there about the films that has grown on you?



Dunno. I probably just like them to annoy people ;)
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2012, 04:17:42 pm »
Not saying he isn't. But from as far back as I can remember I always remember it being said that there were 9 films.

I also remember him saying after Empire that he'd never, ever, ever make another one.

Expect those next three in 10 years mate :)

Does the Star Wars Holiday Special count as one of those films?

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2012, 04:21:32 pm »
Does the Star Wars Holiday Special count as one of those films?

Sadly not :(

I saw an interview with him saying that he'd like to get Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill and the others 'growing old' and then featuring in the next films (Which would springboard off new main characters ala Young Indiana Jones and the like)

Obviously massive potential for disaster, but also intriguing.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2012, 04:22:26 pm »
Not saying he isn't. But from as far back as I can remember I always remember it being said that there were 9 films.

I also remember him saying after Empire that he'd never, ever, ever make another one.

Expect those next three in 10 years mate :)

Do you honestly believe, without a hint of trolling, that George Lucas wrote the original trilogy to be an exciting space opera and as Return of the Jedi rolled in the cash, he patted a folder next to him that contained manuscripts about midichlorians and trade disputes?
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #85 on: February 16, 2012, 04:24:31 pm »
Anyway, if you want the original Star Wars in HD without all the special effects or additions or shit, then you want Harmy's Despecialised Editions: http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/331351077/harmy?tab=summary

I've downloaded them, there's a long winded way of getting them to work on the PS3 but if you can't be arsed you can always just play them as is. It's an amazing job for a fan edit, it tries to make it as authentic and close to the original release as possible.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #86 on: February 16, 2012, 04:26:13 pm »
There was supposed to be a third trilogy, at least at one point. Supposedly concerning Luke's search for his sister. But that got rolled into Jedi, making earlier romantic moments quite awkward, really.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #87 on: February 16, 2012, 04:27:15 pm »
AWT, Andy makes up his 'arguments' as he goes along. You can probably understand why George Lucas remains a hero to him.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #88 on: February 16, 2012, 04:33:59 pm »
Anyway, if you want the original Star Wars in HD without all the special effects or additions or shit, then you want Harmy's Despecialised Editions: http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/331351077/harmy?tab=summary

I've downloaded them, there's a long winded way of getting them to work on the PS3 but if you can't be arsed you can always just play them as is. It's an amazing job for a fan edit, it tries to make it as authentic and close to the original release as possible.

Had heard about these, cheers mate.

Oh, and if Lucas decides to make another 3 star wars films I will weep for humanity.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #89 on: February 16, 2012, 04:34:51 pm »
Here we go, from Gary Kurtz, producer of IV and V:

EPISODE 6: Leia was to be elected "Queen of her people" leaving her isolated. Han was to die. Luke confronted Vader and went on with his life alone. Leia was not to be Luke's sister.
EPISODE 7: Third trilogy was to focus on Luke's life as a Jedi, with very few details planned out.
EPISODE 8: Luke's sister (not Leia) appears from another part of the galaxy.
EPISODE 9: First appearance of the Emperor.


http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/gary_kurtz_reveals_original_plans_for_episodes_19_80270.asp




The idea of it still makes me moist. But only if Lucas has no involvement whatsoever.

I must admit I am looking forward to the live action series, should it get made, despite Rick McCallum producing. He's a smarmy, yes-man twat.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #90 on: February 16, 2012, 04:36:37 pm »
Do you honestly believe, without a hint of trolling, that George Lucas wrote the original trilogy to be an exciting space opera and as Return of the Jedi rolled in the cash, he patted a folder next to him that contained manuscripts about midichlorians and trade disputes?

Nope I don't. But from many interviews I'd seen and read that he'd done (I was particularly involved with the Amiga so a lot of stuff came from Tampa Bay Amiga BBS's) he always said (some would say claimed) that he'd always had the back story and the full 9 films planned.

Personally I think he had a vague idea for what he wanted to do, but even the original Star Wars IV, V and VI changed dramatically. The early Flash Gordon to Space Opera thing started off as Japanese with a few nods to famous books at the time, but then changed back and forth as it went on.

I did Aikido for a bit and one of my best mates is an Aikido Master and he always comments on the similarities of Aikido/Samurai to the Jedi and having done it myself for a while the similarities to the film are clearly Japanese. On top of that you have fuedal systems, modernisation and the changing of central figures being involved with rebels and the idea of fighting back. Then you have very obvious conflicts around the time in Vietnam and Korea and the ideals changing, so I think it's likely that a big hodge podge of 'stuff' was there waiting to get out.

Do I think he'd already written the first three? No. Do I think he had a load of ideas and dumped most of them into the first three while pandering to the fan base and marketing bods? Yes.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #91 on: February 16, 2012, 04:37:05 pm »
AWT, Andy makes up his 'arguments' as he goes along. You can probably understand why George Lucas remains a hero to him.

Not sure I've ever said George Lucas was my hero. He comes across as a bit of a dick in interviews I can remember even as a kid.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #92 on: February 16, 2012, 04:38:58 pm »
There was supposed to be a third trilogy, at least at one point. Supposedly concerning Luke's search for his sister. But that got rolled into Jedi, making earlier romantic moments quite awkward, really.

There was supposed to be a lot, according to Lucas. Over the years he's changed his mind so many times it's hard to know what the original was, a bit like his films.

I don't know if it was on here or another forum but I read a great piece about how Lucas needs to understand that most of film making is understanding what corners need to be cut. That's the beauty of cinema, necessity is the mother of invention and it shows. That's why the special effects in the original trilogy were so good and the prequels were so dull and uninspiring. You can still watch the originals and be in awe of the magnitude of the ships, you didn't have hundreds of them on screen, you had one huge one in Star Wars to a maximum of, what, 10? Less than 10? In Return of the Jedi.

It just seems that - in general - some of the art of film making has been lost. Watching older films you get a charm that CG and animation has eroded in all but the very best. Case in point, the new Muppets movie used the power of CG to remove the puppeteers so they could have more flexibility with the actual Muppets. Without giving anything away, it even references current trends in the film, so clearly they were aware what they should limit themselves to using. As a result, you get a film that feels like a faithful reproduction of a classic.

George Lucas couldn't get one puppet right.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #93 on: February 16, 2012, 04:48:38 pm »
Nope I don't. But from many interviews I'd seen and read that he'd done (I was particularly involved with the Amiga so a lot of stuff came from Tampa Bay Amiga BBS's) he always said (some would say claimed) that he'd always had the back story and the full 9 films planned.

Personally I think he had a vague idea for what he wanted to do, but even the original Star Wars IV, V and VI changed dramatically. The early Flash Gordon to Space Opera thing started off as Japanese with a few nods to famous books at the time, but then changed back and forth as it went on.

I did Aikido for a bit and one of my best mates is an Aikido Master and he always comments on the similarities of Aikido/Samurai to the Jedi and having done it myself for a while the similarities to the film are clearly Japanese. On top of that you have fuedal systems, modernisation and the changing of central figures being involved with rebels and the idea of fighting back. Then you have very obvious conflicts around the time in Vietnam and Korea and the ideals changing, so I think it's likely that a big hodge podge of 'stuff' was there waiting to get out.

Do I think he'd already written the first three? No. Do I think he had a load of ideas and dumped most of them into the first three while pandering to the fan base and marketing bods? Yes.

I don't see how he did it justice to the fans. There are so many people who take the universe seriously, what you see in the films is only a fraction. Who are the fans that wanted Hayden Christiansen to be the apparition that Skywalker saw at the end of ROTJ? Who was clamouring for Lucas to put the 'Noooooo' in at the end of that? Where are the people asking for a scientific explanation behind the force?

The only thing you could conceivably argue that was put in for the benefit of the fanboys was lightsaber duelling. And even that lacked any real excitement or tension. Take Revenge of the Sith. You knew what was going to happen so having them battle like that was poor story telling. So why not make it sudden? Or have a twist? None of it made sense, as someone who didn't feel a terribly strong attachment I just felt the same as when I saw Transformers (though that I did have an emotional attachment to).

Honestly, the best thing would be if the prequels got remade after Lucas croaks it.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #94 on: February 16, 2012, 04:50:31 pm »
I don't know if it was on here or another forum but I read a great piece about how Lucas needs to understand that most of film making is understanding what corners need to be cut. That's the beauty of cinema, necessity is the mother of invention and it shows. That's why the special effects in the original trilogy were so good and the prequels were so dull and uninspiring. You can still watch the originals and be in awe of the magnitude of the ships, you didn't have hundreds of them on screen, you had one huge one in Star Wars to a maximum of, what, 10? Less than 10? In Return of the Jedi.
Just to highlight this, the escape from the Death Star scene. It's mostly reaction shots and very cloe screen fly-bys by TIE Fighters. Yet there is far more excitement in that than the space fight at the start of Episode III.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #95 on: February 16, 2012, 04:52:42 pm »
I don't see how he did it justice to the fans. There are so many people who take the universe seriously, what you see in the films is only a fraction. Who are the fans that wanted Hayden Christiansen to be the apparition that Skywalker saw at the end of ROTJ? Who was clamouring for Lucas to put the 'Noooooo' in at the end of that? Where are the people asking for a scientific explanation behind the force?

The only thing you could conceivably argue that was put in for the benefit of the fanboys was lightsaber duelling. And even that lacked any real excitement or tension. Take Revenge of the Sith. You knew what was going to happen so having them battle like that was poor story telling. So why not make it sudden? Or have a twist? None of it made sense, as someone who didn't feel a terribly strong attachment I just felt the same as when I saw Transformers (though that I did have an emotional attachment to).

Honestly, the best thing would be if the prequels got remade after Lucas croaks it.


You could be right. :)


I find it hard to believe anyone likes Transformers though - awful films. As someone said "Please make it stop" - pity they didn't manage that before they made the first one.


Sad thing is with Science Fiction is that there are so many astonishing tales already written that would make astonishing films and Studio's just won't take a punt on them. It's 2012 and NO ONE has made "Rendevous with Rama" for instance. Why the hell not? It's just stunning and would be a perfect Science Ficiton film.

But in some ways I'm glad - some twat of a director would dump a shit love interest into it and then they'd have to have big laser battles and giant aliens fighting and then it would blow up at the end.

Actually. I'm glad they don't make Science Ficiton films as a rule as they always fucking ruin them. Nearly booted my telly over when I saw "Adjustment Bureau" fucking twats ruining my favourite ever short story like that.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #96 on: February 16, 2012, 05:00:19 pm »
Just to highlight this, the escape from the Death Star scene. It's mostly reaction shots and very cloe screen fly-bys by TIE Fighters. Yet there is far more excitement in that than the space fight at the start of Episode III.

You're wrong. More spaceships/lasers/shooting/explosions = better.

Emotions can't compete with that shit, or a lightsabre fight with no tension at all.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #97 on: February 16, 2012, 05:19:03 pm »
I find it hard to believe anyone likes Transformers though - awful films. As someone said "Please make it stop" - pity they didn't manage that before they made the first one.

I fucking loved the cartoon as a kid, I was even hopeful that some of the original voice actors would help keep Bay from totally ruining it but other than some amazing special effects, it's a crap film and I only finished the first one because I went to see it in the cinema. Couldn't finish the second.


Sad thing is with Science Fiction is that there are so many astonishing tales already written that would make astonishing films and Studio's just won't take a punt on them. It's 2012 and NO ONE has made "Rendevous with Rama" for instance. Why the hell not? It's just stunning and would be a perfect Science Ficiton film.

But in some ways I'm glad - some twat of a director would dump a shit love interest into it and then they'd have to have big laser battles and giant aliens fighting and then it would blow up at the end.

Actually. I'm glad they don't make Science Ficiton films as a rule as they always fucking ruin them. Nearly booted my telly over when I saw "Adjustment Bureau" fucking twats ruining my favourite ever short story like that.

See, I don't know what that book is but I can quite confidently agree with you that they won't make a decent sci fi film for the masses. The closest I can think of, that was truly sci fi, was Minority Report - and even then when you look at it closely, it wasn't terribly good science fiction. Inception doesn't count in my opinion because it's more of a thriller, a sort of whodunnit dressed up in an interesting mechanic. It shares more with Memento than it does with anything else. Source Code was more romantic thriller than anything.

Star Trek was good but honestly it was just an action film set in the Star Trek universe. I think that's the trade off they have to make in cinema these days to make money on big budget films like that. The Marvel Studios films all did well not simply because they tried to be faithful to the comics but also because they were just good films in their own right that anyone could watch.

Look at Star Wars, you've got fucking trade disputes and loads of different races and religions and midichlorians and he loves her but he's not allowed to but he can do anything else but love her and he wants to rule the galaxy but he can't because he has to share but where did that come from and who taught him that and what's going on with Saruman and hang on where did all this robots come from and what are the clone wars and why should I know about this and oh dear.

Sci fi is probably better off for TV anyway, or video games.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #98 on: February 16, 2012, 05:22:39 pm »
I'd like to see Rendezvous with Rama too, I think David Fincher was linked to the property a few years ago, with Morgan Freeman unless my memory has gone.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #99 on: February 16, 2012, 05:28:20 pm »

You could be right. :)


I find it hard to believe anyone likes Transformers though - awful films. As someone said "Please make it stop" - pity they didn't manage that before they made the first one.


Sad thing is with Science Fiction is that there are so many astonishing tales already written that would make astonishing films and Studio's just won't take a punt on them. It's 2012 and NO ONE has made "Rendevous with Rama" for instance. Why the hell not? It's just stunning and would be a perfect Science Ficiton film.

But in some ways I'm glad - some twat of a director would dump a shit love interest into it and then they'd have to have big laser battles and giant aliens fighting and then it would blow up at the end.

Actually. I'm glad they don't make Science Ficiton films as a rule as they always fucking ruin them. Nearly booted my telly over when I saw "Adjustment Bureau" fucking twats ruining my favourite ever short story like that.
Most of the books out there would make far better tv series' than films (i think). That being said i'm waiting with baited breath for Foundation to come out just so i can see with my own two eyes what that bellend roland emmerich does to it. He's already stated that he's going to have to do motion capture "like avatar" and have it in 3d. Hooray, i can hardly contain my excitement.

The problem is Andy mate, that a majority of movie goers don't want a good science fiction film. They want bright lights, big battles, a love interest and a happy ending. That's it. After the success of battlestar galactica i thought we'd genuinely see a couple more science fiction tv shows of that sort of quality.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #100 on: February 16, 2012, 07:37:24 pm »
AWT and Red_Isle_Chap - you have both nailed it there.

Hollywood is not capable of making a good Science Fiction film.

I would trust HBO as a serialisation with it though.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #101 on: February 16, 2012, 07:48:12 pm »
That reminds me, CBS is making Source Code into a television show. It will fill that Quantum Leap gap.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #102 on: February 16, 2012, 07:52:14 pm »
That reminds me, CBS is making Source Code into a television show. It will fill that Quantum Leap gap.
By ripping off Quantum Leap, genius.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #103 on: February 16, 2012, 07:53:38 pm »
Unlike you to make a crass and sweeping generalisation, A@A but Prometheus looks pretty interesting. Let's see what happens when a Director tries to tell a story instead of cynically exploiting every money making niche available.


He's off to a good start by making one prequel instead of three.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #104 on: February 16, 2012, 08:02:10 pm »
By ripping off Quantum Leap, genius.
Nonsense. Quantum Leap andGroundhog Day.
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Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #105 on: February 16, 2012, 08:46:17 pm »
Pfft, not having that sci fi films have been crap recently. There have been plenty of great, original sci fi films in the past ten years or so if you look past the usual Hollywood blockbusters;

Moon
District 9
Another Earth
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Melancholia
Children of Men (based on a book I know, but an incredible film)
Primer
Pitch Black
Donnie Darko
Monsters
The Fountain
Timecrimes
Inception
Cube
Attack the Block
Never Let Me Go

These films range from thoughtful, interesting, fun, exciting, powerful, moving to having cool aliens eating people. And like all great sci fi they reflect and comment on modern day issues in some way.

Some of the recent blockbustery fare has been quite good as well, like Source Code, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Wall-E and Super 8.

Now we've got Ridley Scott making another film in the Alien universe and then supposedly a sequel to Blade Runner. Rian Jonhson making a time travel movie that's supposed to be incredible. Alfonso Cuaron making a sci fi film about space travel and Guillermo Del Toro making a live action giant monsters vs giant robots movie.

I'd be as bold to say we're in a golden age of sci fi films right now...
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #106 on: February 16, 2012, 08:48:01 pm »
Don't forget The Hunger Games.
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Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #107 on: February 16, 2012, 08:52:58 pm »
Don't forget The Hunger Games.

Ehhh, looks a bit shit. Twilight by way of a neutered Battle Royale.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #108 on: February 16, 2012, 09:20:54 pm »
Pfft, not having that sci fi films have been crap recently. There have been plenty of great, original sci fi films in the past ten years or so if you look past the usual Hollywood blockbusters;

Moon
District 9
Another Earth
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Melancholia
Children of Men (based on a book I know, but an incredible film)
Primer
Pitch Black
Donnie Darko
Monsters
The Fountain
Timecrimes
Inception
Cube
Attack the Block
Never Let Me Go

These films range from thoughtful, interesting, fun, exciting, powerful, moving to having cool aliens eating people. And like all great sci fi they reflect and comment on modern day issues in some way.

Some of the recent blockbustery fare has been quite good as well, like Source Code, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Wall-E and Super 8.

Now we've got Ridley Scott making another film in the Alien universe and then supposedly a sequel to Blade Runner. Rian Jonhson making a time travel movie that's supposed to be incredible. Alfonso Cuaron making a sci fi film about space travel and Guillermo Del Toro making a live action giant monsters vs giant robots movie.

I'd be as bold to say we're in a golden age of sci fi films right now...
You forgot Battle Los Angeles.
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #109 on: February 16, 2012, 09:29:34 pm »
You forgot Battle Los Angeles.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #110 on: February 16, 2012, 11:05:31 pm »
I noticed you sneaking Pitch Black in there. I think you meant to say Brazil.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #111 on: February 16, 2012, 11:49:52 pm »
Unlike you to make a crass and sweeping generalisation, A@A but Prometheus looks pretty interesting. Let's see what happens when a Director tries to tell a story instead of cynically exploiting every money making niche available.


He's off to a good start by making one prequel instead of three.

Prometheus does - but it wasn't a book. Also it's by someone that I would trust with a Science Fiction film - Ridley Scott. After all as an English bloke he made the two most solid Science Fiction films ever made.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #112 on: February 16, 2012, 11:51:33 pm »
Pfft, not having that sci fi films have been crap recently. There have been plenty of great, original sci fi films in the past ten years or so if you look past the usual Hollywood blockbusters;

Moon
District 9
Another Earth
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Melancholia
Children of Men (based on a book I know, but an incredible film)
Primer
Pitch Black
Donnie Darko
Monsters
The Fountain
Timecrimes
Inception
Cube
Attack the Block
Never Let Me Go

These films range from thoughtful, interesting, fun, exciting, powerful, moving to having cool aliens eating people. And like all great sci fi they reflect and comment on modern day issues in some way.

Some of the recent blockbustery fare has been quite good as well, like Source Code, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Wall-E and Super 8.

Now we've got Ridley Scott making another film in the Alien universe and then supposedly a sequel to Blade Runner. Rian Jonhson making a time travel movie that's supposed to be incredible. Alfonso Cuaron making a sci fi film about space travel and Guillermo Del Toro making a live action giant monsters vs giant robots movie.

I'd be as bold to say we're in a golden age of sci fi films right now...


I'd say of those


Moon
District 9
Monsters


Were good. The rest - average to shite and nowhere near the stories that could be told in the genre. And there were plenty you missed that were good.

But the point is - you've come out with how many? Ten? Fifteen? Out of the hundreds of hours of shite routinely shipped out by Hollywood every year?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #113 on: February 17, 2012, 12:43:01 am »

I'd say of those


Moon
District 9
Monsters


Were good. The rest - average to shite and nowhere near the stories that could be told in the genre. And there were plenty you missed that were good.

But the point is - you've come out with how many? Ten? Fifteen? Out of the hundreds of hours of shite routinely shipped out by Hollywood every year?

Inception is average to shite? News to me.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #114 on: February 17, 2012, 01:08:10 am »
To play devil's advocate a bit, I actually think people make too much out of all the senate stuff and the trade disputes. Real wars have been fought over taxation and to force open markets, so it was actually a decent, believable premise, it was just woefully thought out and executed.

Someone mentioned the "distressed watcher" reviews of the prequels earlier, can't find the post but I looked them up: they were fairly poor, with most valid points he made being mere restatements of things Plinkett handled better, but he also objected to the "taxation of trade routes" stuff on the grounds that is was somehow unbelievable: "What do they do? Stop every ship and demand money?" Er, how does he think countries tax trade that takes place between them - they seem to manage without having to stop every ocean-going vessel to demand money!

I also think the idea of the democratic senate being so large and diverse that it just couldn't handle all the different voices was interesting - but, again, George seems to have a decent starting idea, then develops it in the most sloppy, illogical, and incompetent fashion imaginable.

Which is a long-winded way of saying the prequels might have been good had Lucas just come up with the basic concepts, then left the rest to real filmmakers - like with Empire Strikes Back.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 01:10:00 am by Driver 8 »

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #115 on: February 17, 2012, 02:12:11 am »
David Lynch meets George Lucas:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/EJQ4vCu-S0U" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/EJQ4vCu-S0U</a>
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 02:14:37 am by kopindian »

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2012, 05:52:34 am »
Similar article.

As I write this, we stand on the brink of the first Star Wars 3D release. It's a bold move from Lucasfilm to offer up The Phantom Menace first, but it makes sense when you consider that it's largely the most reviled film in the saga. It's almost as if they are saying, hey, if you don't pay to see the movie you hate, then you can't see the ones you love.

Except I'll be seeing it opening weekend, and I'll be damn excited about it. The Phantom Menace, in my opinion, gets a bad rap for being a "travesty," an "outrage," and, my personal favorite, "childhood rape." While I'm the first to admit that Anakin Skywalker is certainly annoying (but then, isn't his son, too?) and the movie suffers from some odd pacing and stilted acting, there's also a lot to love about it. A movie not living up to the most astronomical expectations known to man and actually being a travesty are hardly one and the same.

Surprise!

While I've heard that enjoying Episode I, or any of the prequels, is because of a generational gap, I don't think that's true. I may have been 15 when the movie came out in theaters, but, just like the rest of the people who had their childhoods beaten to death (allegedly), I enjoyed the original trilogy as a little kid and continue to enjoy it (changes and all) to this day. Similar to the recent outrage about DC Comics' decision to offer a prequel story to their graphic novel classic Watchmen, I don't understand the rationale that something existing separately tarnishes the impact or greatness of the original.

Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace 3D

The Phantom Menace still holds a lot of positives that I think are consistently outweighed by the negativity of critics focused on trivial continuity issues or silly/melodramatic lines of dialog that are every bit as present in the original trilogy ("But why must you confront him?" anyone?). But first and foremost, before Episode I, there was no portrayal of a living, breathing Jedi Order on screen.


While the Expanded Universe (in comics, novels, and video games) was already massive in 1999, the most we had seen of the Jedi on screen came from Obi-Wan and Luke in the original trilogy, neither of whom was in their prime. The Phantom Menace offers a glimpse into how their world works, including the Master/Padawan relationship, the Jedi Counsel, the scope of their power, and, most notably, their skill with a lightsaber.

If people are ready and willing to pick apart Phantom Menace for its follies, why not point to the terrible choreography of the original trilogy too? And you can't say it's a lack of "technology," considering two things. One, the dogfight sequences in the original trilogy are still exciting to this day, and two, Hollywood had a long history of exciting sword fight choreography up to that point, none of which translates into the original trilogy.


While Empire's Luke vs. Vader fight is a classic in cinematic history, it is only so for its emotional impact; certainly not its role as an action sequence. At the same time, I realize the argument could be made that Episode I (and the other prequels) lack emotional resonance and instead is all eye candy. While I could agree with that argument in some instances for the later prequels (the droid factory sequence in Episode II, for example), Episode I is the only film of the prequels that works thematically and emotionally on its own merits, without a reliance on knowing what is to come in the other films.

The real success of Phantom Menace is not the story of Anakin, but the relationship of Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan, their partnership, and the loss that sends Obi-Wan into a mentor role far before he is ready. It is this relationship that makes the final three-way lightsaber duel so epic (well, that and John Williams' "Duel of the Fates"), and leaves Phantom Menace with an impact all its own. The later prequels rely not only on the knowledge of what happened in Episode I, but on the events of the original trilogy and the sort of peripheral knowledge of Darth Vader's downfall. The Phantom Menace establishes the Star Wars Universe on a grander scale that the original trilogy was never able to do, due both to technological limitations and the story as it was being told.

Creepy puppet Yoda is an exception. He will never be welcome.

In addition, Episode I expands on one of, if not the central aspect of the Universe that had long been ignored up to that point cinematically: politics. Look, an evil Empire and an opposing Rebellion is really cool, but there needs to be a reason they are at odds aside from "because the Emperor is evil." Seemingly trivial things like the taxation of trade routes are indeed the seeds of war, and I love Phantom Menace for broadening the scope of the Star Wars Universe not just with Jedi and new creatures, but with a real, fault-ridden political system that is ultimately the cause of its own destruction. Palpatine's plan, as we come to learn, is actually pretty impressive: to use his power to manipulate the politicians into creating an Empire, essentially electing him as a dictator. However convoluted that plan becomes in later films, in Phantom Menace it's an interesting real-world twist on sci-fi politics.

It's also worth noting that Phantom Menace is, at least structurally, similar to A New Hope. It opens on a political mission, gets some unwitting passersby involved, gives a young kid a new outlook on life, results in a grand adventure and a battle or three, the mentor dies, and the rest of the cast is left to carry on. Whether or not you care about the characters beyond Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan is a different story, but thematically Phantom Menace operates on the same level as A New Hope does.

By now you're observing that I've avoided discussing the two big elephants in the room: midichlorians and Jar Jar Binks. Well, there's a reason. I'm fine with both of them. These are plot points that are less relevant to the thematic content that I think makes the movie so engaging. They are things that depend on your personal tastes.

Sebulba FTW!

I find Jar Jar far less annoying than C-3PO, and I think midichlorians serve the same purpose that politics do: they give an explanation to something that was only brushed over in the original films. Some could be fine with the Force just being "a living energy field," but I enjoy that there's a bit more to it than that. I do understand the critics of both, however, and it's something I expect no one will ever be able to agree on.

Whatever your thoughts on Phantom Menace, I urge you to try and put your personal feelings of "George Lucas somehow personally has it out for me" aside and give the movie a watch on its own merits, not in comparison to the films that came before it. It's a perfectly enjoyable action adventure that pulls its influence from A New Hope in a way none of the other prequels (or even Empire and Jedi) did.

Sure, it's got Jake "Pumpkinhead" Lloyd spouting drivel like "I'm a person and my name is Anakin," but it's also a vast exploration of a galaxy that we never thought we'd see again on screen, and has since given birth to even more, using the planets and races introduced in this film.

Oh, and one last thing, perhaps the ultimate nullifier: Darth f****ing Maul.

'Nuff said.

I'm sure there will be plenty of differing opinions, so please sound off in the Comments below! And just remember, the Internet doesn't have to be a wretched hive of scum and villainy; if you love the Phantom Menace, let your voice be heard.

http://movies.ign.com/articles/121/1218394p2.html
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2012, 06:11:14 am »
When I watched them for the first time, I thought I was paying to see an extended advert for merchandise. For instance the pod race was tedious. It just felt like it was included to justify the accompanying video game. Star Wars is a cynical money making exercise.

1. The Jedi land on Tatooine with only Republic credits to spend.
2. They try to buy the part they need to fix the ship, but Watto is immune to mind tricks and refuses to accept their currency.
3. Their answer: Big convoluted bet with Watto and a highly dangerous race that only apparently a 9 year old kid can compete in.

OR just buy something valuble with your credits from someone else (who's not immune to mind tricks) and then give that to Watto in exchange for his parts.

About an hour of the movie that didn't even need to be there.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 06:17:02 am by Suspect Package. »
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Offline doc_antonio

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #118 on: February 17, 2012, 10:06:30 am »
1. The Jedi land on Tatooine with only Republic credits to spend.
2. They try to buy the part they need to fix the ship, but Watto is immune to mind tricks and refuses to accept their currency.
3. Their answer: Big convoluted bet with Watto and a highly dangerous race that only apparently a 9 year old kid can compete in.

OR just buy something valuble with your credits from someone else (who's not immune to mind tricks) and then give that to Watto in exchange for his parts.

About an hour of the movie that didn't even need to be there.

then he wouldnt have met or free'd anakin, therefore story - finished on the first episode.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #119 on: February 17, 2012, 10:31:02 am »
1. The Jedi land on Tatooine with only Republic credits to spend.
2. They try to buy the part they need to fix the ship, but Watto is immune to mind tricks and refuses to accept their currency.
3. Their answer: Big convoluted bet with Watto and a highly dangerous race that only apparently a 9 year old kid can compete in.

OR just buy something valuble with your credits from someone else (who's not immune to mind tricks) and then give that to Watto in exchange for his parts.

About an hour of the movie that didn't even need to be there.

Watto said "Mind tricks don't work on me. Only money. No money, no parts, no deal!" He doesn't want more crap he could get more cheaply himself from other traders in the Town you would guess. This is reinforced with him saying "Look around! I gotta lots of a-junk"

He also said "And no one else has a T-14 hyperdrive, I promise you that" - so it's obviously a closed shop - all the traders will sell what they sell as part of a community. It was also stated several times that the real commerce (And the requirement for money) was due to the gambling that goes on.

He also wanted the ship. His plan from the start clearly was to cheat or win the ship as it was far more valuable than all the shite he (or anyone else) was selling. You didn't exactly get the feeling that he was an honest trader.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.