Author Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0  (Read 21020 times)

Offline GrkStav

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #80 on: April 2, 2014, 05:24:28 am »
He may not have known how far away the Spurs player was, so turning in that direction risked the ball so he probably didn't think it was an option.

Well, I assume he either a. did not know how far away the Spurs player was or b. did know but did not feel confident enough in his ability to execute the pass quickly enough and accurately enough.

Of course, stuff looks 'easier' in still pictures, harder on T.V. or on video, and probably impossible in real life, and from the player's exact perspective. I am going to have to watch it again to see if it was Agger, in the final analysis who oughtn't have put Henderson in that position. I remember distinctly that he did something to that effect to/with Flanagan.

I have come, late and reluctantly, to empathize with Carragher who appeared to get annoyed with Lucas when he would attempt little short 'wall' pass exchanges with him . . . "what you're giving it back to me foooooor?"  :wave :D
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Offline neutron

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #81 on: April 2, 2014, 06:15:18 am »
It just stuck with me when I saw it. It was, to me, a definite sign of knowing the game. I fucking love it when Suarez does this too with the 'new offside'. That Cardiff goal was the perfect example of it. It looks mental to all of us who learned the old offside rule. He was so blatantly offside that Cardiff were delighted to only have to focus their 5 defenders against Sturridge. Then in comes the ball from Henderson, Johnson squares it and Suarez taps it in with time and space to scratch his arse and wave to the crowd.

...snip

Pardon my ignorance, but what it the "new" offside rule which we are exploiting here? I have to admit that I was amazed that the Cardiff goal in question wasn't flagged for offside...and then was amazed that no one said we were lucky to get away with it, etc etc...! Thanks in advance...

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #82 on: April 2, 2014, 06:35:39 am »
Has anyone worked out Brendan Rodgers' various whistles?

During the match he'll often whistle twice or three times. I'm convinced it's to do something as it's not followed by any vocal instruction to a player or to summon someone over during a break in play. It will happen when the ball is in play and I really want to know if it's meaningful

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Offline DanA

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #83 on: April 2, 2014, 08:04:53 am »
Pardon my ignorance, but what it the "new" offside rule which we are exploiting here? I have to admit that I was amazed that the Cardiff goal in question wasn't flagged for offside...and then was amazed that no one said we were lucky to get away with it, etc etc...! Thanks in advance...

You are now only flagged offside if you influence play from an offside position. If you are initially offside but played back onside before influencing the play the no offside will be called.

In this case Suarez is offside but the ball is on the wing with Johnson. Once Johnson gets more advanced then Suarez, Suarez is able to legally receive the ball unmarked for an easy tap in.
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Offline neutron

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #84 on: April 2, 2014, 09:27:07 am »
You are now only flagged offside if you influence play from an offside position. If you are initially offside but played back onside before influencing the play the no offside will be called.

In this case Suarez is offside but the ball is on the wing with Johnson. Once Johnson gets more advanced then Suarez, Suarez is able to legally receive the ball unmarked for an easy tap in.

Aha! That explains a lot...thanks!

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #85 on: April 2, 2014, 09:39:30 am »
You are now only flagged offside if you influence play from an offside position. If you are initially offside but played back onside before influencing the play the no offside will be called.

In this case Suarez is offside but the ball is on the wing with Johnson. Once Johnson gets more advanced then Suarez, Suarez is able to legally receive the ball unmarked for an easy tap in.

Van Nistelrooy was the first I can remember really exploiting that.

Offline goalrushatgoodison

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #86 on: April 2, 2014, 09:55:39 am »
Van Nistelrooy was the first I can remember really exploiting that.

1994 world cup Romario scored two goals against Holland by doing exactly what Suarez did except he was much further from the goal when he received the ball
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Offline Broad Spectrum

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #87 on: April 2, 2014, 10:34:46 am »
A taster of what will be in the next few years as the team gets stronger and stronger and more successful. I've said from the beginning that Rodgers is a man of vision, who wants to create at least one all-time great team. This was a snapshot of what that would look like. Creative, innovative, different - and unstoppable in full flow.

Mouthwatering prospect, particularly when you think we'll be taking our football to the continent next season!  :)

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #88 on: April 2, 2014, 11:44:40 am »
Van Nistelrooy was the first I can remember really exploiting that.

He used to do the classic two step in, one step out. He'd drag the defenders down with him, then he's slip away from them and they just saw him in the offside position and then the ball is squared and he bagged the goal.
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Offline exiledinyorkshire

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #89 on: April 2, 2014, 12:06:17 pm »
The third goal is much talked about, and quite rightly. So I'm going to talk about it again. And not with average positions or stats or heat maps. Just images of the lead-up to it, because it was quite important for several reasons.

Let's start with the initial possession. It started from a throw to us, just inside Spurs' attacking third, played short:




The normal English way of playing would have the attacking team either taking a long throw, or laying a ball off to be sent forward. Not Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool, though. A short throw was taken, Henderson looking for options, but instead, sent it back to Agger, in central defence:



This is counter-intuitive to the "English Way". Liverpool had just given up territorial advantage in a good area. At the most dangerous scoreline in football - 2-0. And they did this with more than 30 minutes left to play. A short exchange of passes was inevitable going to end up with a direct ball into the forwards from a set-up pass by Gerrard to Agger, surely? No. It was played into Henderson, who was facing his own goal:



From here, Spurs must have been quite happy, as not only was the ball out of their attacking third, but they were forcing it backwards, a key factor that any defending team wants to see - prevent them from turning, and force them back to their own goal. So they must have been equally as happy to see Henderson play it all the way back to Mignolet, who then spread it to Skrtel, who had pulled wide, creating a huge gap in front of goal. All Spurs had to do now is pressure it, win it, and a shot on goal was surely theirs:



They even managed to get into position to cut off the passing lanes, so Skrtel was in trouble now. He only had a square pass to Agger as a real option, and nobody plays it square across the box. Cardinal sin numero uno in possession in the back third:



Nobody takes that option. So Agger dropping square into the penalty area was pretty pointless. Spurs could smell a chance here. Only Mignolet was an option, and he sweats with the ball is at his feet. Get ready to pounce, because Spurs are pulling this back.

But no. Skrtel does what he's not "supposed" to do. He plays it square to the checking Agger. Agger receives it on the turn with good fundamentals that we come to expect from a Rodgers player:



And suddenly, from a position where Liverpool had lost territory, had turned to their own goal, played it back to their keeper, allowed Spurs to push forward to press and close off lanes ("shuffling and funnelling"), and only had the "bad" square option across the box to play, Liverpool had suddenly opened up the field and exposed a gaping chasm in the centre of the pitch. A short pass to Flanagan, a deft turn, a cut inside, and a sweet pass to Coutinho who drove the Spurs defenders back far enough to create a distance to shoot and score, and it is game over.

Everything about that goal was "wrong" in terms of how English teams play football, and conventional English football "wisdom". I am not ashamed to say, that goal gave me a lump in the throat. Not because of the bigger picture of it's meaning in the title race. But because it gave legitimacy to those of us who have taken up the yoke of developing players, who don't always get the results that the more "traditional" teams do at the youth levels, but who nevertheless proselytise about the right way to play - the harder to develop but infinitely more rewarding skilful way. The Liverpool Way. The way to play that will have coaches, players and neutrals flocking to watch each subsequent game to see what the Tricky Reds are "going to do this week". This was football from the heavens, in a short 30 second cameo. A taster of what will be in the next few years as the team gets stronger and stronger and more successful. I've said from the beginning that Rodgers is a man of vision, who wants to create at least one all-time great team. This was a snapshot of what that would look like. Creative, innovative, different - and unstoppable in full flow.


I love this post.

its a battle to make others see. But my god it helps when Liverpool nail that kind of move.

Had a major difference of opinion about balls back across goal in kids football. My point was that the correct ball was chosen, it was just under hit, I was looked at incredulously, as the down the line get rid wisdom was advocated.

I spoke to the child, explained that he had indeed found a team mate in space with a way out and that the only problem with his ball was he had under hit it somewhat. Next game he is in the exact same position right hand side of his box, looks up and pings one over to the opposite side of the pitch and a team mate again in good space. He actually stopped and looked at me as if to say" what like that boss" I smiled thumbs up, nice moment.

Thing is the mistake occurred, we spoke about the risks of the pass and the potential benefits, we looked at how to execute it better and learning genuinely occurred. And it simply wouldn't happen if the advice was "if in doubt kick it out" "or down the fucking line". Its kids football and there still appears to be no room in the game for failure!! utterly ridiculous. Failure is key.

And bringing it back to Liverpool, we tried it and failed, and tried it and failed and now we try it and its nailed. Time and a place to get rid, but courage under pressure on the ball has to be developed.

I love Your post POP.

Offline TheDarkKnight

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #90 on: April 2, 2014, 12:15:13 pm »
It was a great team display on Sunday but for me it was the younger players - Sterling, Coutinho, Flanagan and Henderson - that stood out in a red shirt. That's not to say the other lads weren't very good, they were but pundits and the like have been saying for weeks now they expect this team may crack under pressure, especially due to its youth... well, going by the game against Tottenham the opposite looks to be true; they are thriving under the expectation. Not that I'm surprised, the mentality of these players is not in question - Henderson, nearly sold, on the fringes then showed phenomenal character to become a key player; Flanagan, barely featured in two years after a positive start to his career, reportedly turned down to go on loan by lower league clubs, now playing like an established player for the table toppers; Coutinho, deemed not good (old) enough by Inter, moved on in to a league very different in terms of style yet adapted rapidly; even Sterling, whose ability and potential was ludicrously questioned by some of his own fans at one point despite being just 18 at the time.

These relative hard knocks have served these players well for a title run in, in my opinion. Then you have got Gerrard, the captain, as desperate as anyone has ever been to lift the holy grail; Suarez, arguably the most determined footballer ever, pretty much; Sturridge, with a not too dissimilar career path to Coutinho.

It's evident that all of these players have the mentality needed to compete for the big one. They have certainly dealt with it better in recent weeks than so-called Special One and his team full of winners.

Finally, it says a lot that at the end of the Spurs game I was slightly disappointed we didn't notch a fifth goal. That's how good this Liverpool team is at the moment.
« Last Edit: April 2, 2014, 12:57:53 pm by TheDarkKnight »

Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #91 on: April 2, 2014, 03:05:59 pm »
Round Tables. Always make my day  :)

All I will add is this:

I'll say this though, for the lack of another description, we were simply much much smarter in this game. Every single opportunity that was there for the taking, we took.

I watched the Untied - Bayern game yesterday. Maybe you did too? Pep Guardiola's Bayern team was in town. In that town, but regardless.

The team that out-Barcelonas Barcelona themselves. On a regular basis.

A team at its pomp.

Bundesliga already in their pocket, with half a dozen games to go. Reigning CL champions.

We can but dream. Right?

Meh.

What an utter useless, boring show of tiqui-taca (Rafa are you watching!) that was. 179% possession. No threat. Managed one goal because that clueless mid table team can't even defend.

You can keep your Guardiolas.

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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #92 on: April 2, 2014, 03:08:12 pm »
Round Tables. Always make my day  :)

All I will add is this:

I watched the Untied - Bayern game yesterday. Maybe you did too? Pep Guardiola's Bayern team was in town. In that town, but regardless.

The team that out-Barcelonas Barcelona themselves. On a regular basis.

A team at its pomp.

Bundesliga already in their pocket, with half a dozen games to go. Reigning CL champions.

We can but dream. Right?

Meh.

What an utter useless, boring show of tiqui-taca (Rafa are you watching!) that was. 179% possession. No threat. Managed one goal because that clueless mid table team can't even defend.

You can keep your Guardiolas.

I know who I like.

"Guardioli", surely? :D
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Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #93 on: April 2, 2014, 03:10:47 pm »
The Boy from Brazil!
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Offline Lofty Ambitions

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #94 on: April 2, 2014, 03:16:45 pm »
That was a serious post though. After only a couple of days of us defeating Spurs, I was watching Bayern, that Bayern, and thinking: Meh.

Now how great is that!
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Offline neutron

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #95 on: April 2, 2014, 03:20:39 pm »
That was a serious post though. After only a couple of days of us defeating Spurs, I was watching Bayern, that Bayern, and thinking: Meh.

Now how great is that!
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Offline robertobaggio37

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #96 on: April 2, 2014, 03:34:23 pm »
Has anyone worked out Brendan Rodgers' various whistles?

During the match he'll often whistle twice or three times. I'm convinced it's to do something as it's not followed by any vocal instruction to a player or to summon someone over during a break in play. It will happen when the ball is in play and I really want to know if it's meaningful

I know I'm not going mad. I'm going grey but not mad :)

Quiet! Otherwise you will expose BR's signals ;D
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #97 on: April 2, 2014, 03:44:07 pm »
Has anyone worked out Brendan Rodgers' various whistles?

During the match he'll often whistle twice or three times. I'm convinced it's to do something as it's not followed by any vocal instruction to a player or to summon someone over during a break in play. It will happen when the ball is in play and I really want to know if it's meaningful

I know I'm not going mad. I'm going grey but not mad :)

Not as in depth as PoPs set of pictures I admit, but I took a look at the Spurs reaction to our third goal.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #98 on: April 2, 2014, 05:30:27 pm »
And who's going to get the ball off Sterling once he's got it. Dembele tried. Remember Dembele ("We can't compete in midfield these days unless we have a 'monster' like Dembele")? Well Dembele gave it his best shot down by the right corner flag soon after he came on. But he simply wasn't tough enough, strong enough or clever enough to knock Sterling off the ball. I was embarrassed for him. Strength is balance of course in football. Sterling is a ballerina and that's why you can't knock him over, no matter how long you spend in the gym lifting weights.

Call me crude, but that was my favourite moment in the game. Like long passing moves that have no object but to show that we can, Sterling holding off Dembele was simply taking the piss, and it was glorious.
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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #99 on: April 2, 2014, 05:52:51 pm »
And to counterpoint E2K's textual stylings in a more graphic mode, this is the table nine games ago.



That's something. Isn't that something?
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #100 on: April 2, 2014, 06:07:59 pm »
The third goal should define the Brendan Rodgers era at Liverpool. Rodgers has every right to put the thing on his coat of arms when he retires. If anyone asks him what Liverpool FC is about he can just point to this goal. 

Good post that. Will review Coutinho's actions when I have the chance and I will look for those details.

The part I quoted above, I think it's special. That's Rodgers' LFC, captured in just a few seconds of football. I reckon he's very happy with that sequence.

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #101 on: April 2, 2014, 06:13:40 pm »
The shell's still a bit shoogly, but Humpty's just about been put back together again. 

Round Tables are worth reading on many different levels, one of which is always the chance to pick up on marginally obscure, and therefore unutterably hip, argot.

I'm going to criticize one of my player's first-touches as "shoogly" during training tonight. Quality...  ;)
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Round Table: Liverpool 4 v Spurs 0
« Reply #102 on: April 4, 2014, 10:41:36 am »
Pretty late this time, had a busy week, but this game was just too good for not coming on here and writing something positive....

I liked especially how we varied the pace of the game, especially right before half time, where we slowed down the pace and gave ourselves a rest with the ball. Very impressive to watch how we matured in this respect and it's something we will desperately have to be able to do, even when being under way more pressure and I hope Rodgers will practise this with the players in terms of our upcoming CL/PL fixtures for next season.

A lot of stuff played was very "brasilian" like, especially with Allen out and our attacking force of Suarez, Coutinho, Sterling and Sturridge in our 4-3-3 which is my favourite line up as it makes us play exactly the way I always hoped to see as which is very much about "playing" football first and foremost.There has been a lot of talk about Rodgers giving the players the confidence to play the ball but to me there is way more to it.... To me, Rodgers reminded our players to be football players first and foremost, that it's about playing football which makes things so easy as long as it's done by every players as most of the problems within a first eleven is coming from not being able to trust your team mates not wasting possession or giving away the ball way too easily. In this respect, there is still a lot of work to do but overall it's pretty impressive and astonishing to watch how good professional players CAN be with the ball as long as a manager only let them to. Pretty much all of our squad players got the skills which has been coached out of them gradually from an early stage on in european football, some earlier and some later on and Rodgers obviously tries everything to make them forget about all those fearful thinking with has been established in european football tactics..In this respect, I totally agree with Yorky that Coutinho has to thank Rodgers for letting him play the way he is capable of, but frankly, all of them should. And I am pretty sure they are, thankful, just as I am as a fan for bringing back football..  ;)

The finishing of Henderson seems to be more a problem for the player than for the team although I am kind of buffled how he hasn't worked this out for him in the last couple of months as I would think there is enough quality within the club, Dalglish, Fowler, Barnes or whoever, to help out the guy with a couple of hours of indeep coaching here as it's really no rocket science. For ALL our players not being on the same level as Romario or the original Ronaldo in terms of natural finishing, there are some basic rules to follow here, just as with taking penalities and I do hope someone already told Henderson what to do best here. Get/Bend over the ball and take an instep kick, NEVER with the inside or outside, in either one of the corners or hit it hard right under the bar. Concentrate just on that, 90% success rate, guarateed ;)

One last thing on Tottenham though... If a team isn't even able to give some decent PL game time to one of our injured players, Lucas, then you know there is something wrong, one of the worst performance of a team coming to Anfield for a pretty long time, I am pretty sure of that. No game plan, no guts, no spirit, nothing. You could almost sense how the Tottenham players not wanting to perform, not wanting to go out and play and there is, again, a pretty obvious rift between the manager and the players going on... No suprise to me though as this guy seems to be totally clueless what to do here, McAteer pointing out that with AVB still being in charge it wouldn't have been such an easy game.. overall embarrassing performance, sorry Tottenham.
« Last Edit: April 4, 2014, 12:21:34 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10