Author Topic: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans  (Read 165514 times)

Offline ALANM

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #160 on: September 3, 2012, 11:06:07 pm »
Sorry what's this long term plan?

Oh and does it include new stadium?

If we can't afford £6m for a goalscorer then there's nothing down for the stadium.

They were quite happy to let Comolli run riot with the chequebook last year. A 29 year old not worth £6m, yet a 27 year old was worth £20m? Rodgers has been stitched up.

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #161 on: September 3, 2012, 11:06:12 pm »
I think the biggest flaw in FSG's plan is that they assume clubs will stay static now that each & every move will be included in the FFP. They think that once FFP kicks in we'll have the advantage but forget that a) clubs will continue to spend FFP or not, and if you think FFP will be enforced then please tell this to Zenit who has just splashed €70m on Hulk & Witsel and b) we'll find it hard to attract the best young players available because there will be a gap between us & the top clubs which makes it difficult to convince them to join us.

Quote
Spending is not merely about buying talent. Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years. Our emphasis will be on developing our own players using the skills of an increasingly impressive coaching team. Much thought and investment already have gone into developing a self-sustaining pool of youngsters imbued in the club's traditions.

This part worries me, it is great relying on the club's academy to produce it, but to do you have to be at least at a great position on & off the field for it to work. When Barcelona began their La Masia project, they were reigning European & Spanish champions under Cruyff, they also won the title again at the late 90s under Van Gaal and when they hit a bit of a rough patch, they weren't afraid to spend big money on the likes of Saviola, Mendieta, Gerard, etc and when these guys failed they didn't hide and say we're waiting for the likes of Messi & Iniesta to break through, they went out & brought Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Deco, Motta, Edmilson and had an offer accepted for Beckham although he refused to join them. Their success wasn't as constant as under Pep when the likes of Messi, Iniesta & Pique became stables in the side but they managed to get two La Ligas & a European cup in return. It's also worth noting that Barcelona's statues off the pitch in Spain meant that they can take a hit on the results on the pitch and still be able to buy players while being outside the CL because they could offer wages with the only club able to offer more than them in the league being Real Madrid.

The Mancs also did something similar in the mid 90s by depending on some young academy graduates but they made sure there were stars in the side by the time they became ready for full debuts, with the exception of Giggs who played when he was 18, Beckham didn't become a regular in the United side till the 95-96 season, Gary Neville became the 1st choice right back in the 94-95 season, same as his younger brother Phil, Nicky Butt & Paul Scholes also make their breakthrough into the senior squad the same season. In essence, all the Mr Alex Ferguson's Fledglings (or whatever the fuck they were called) didn't make their senior squad breakthrough until the squad was already strong & had already two titles under their belt.

I mentioned these two examples because ultimately these two clubs are what the owners should want to aim to be, we have got some great young talents coming and you can argue that the likes of Kelly, Shelvey & Sterling already made their breakthrough while there are others like Flanagan, Robinson, Ibe, Suso, Texeira, Morgan, Adrojan, Sama, Coady, Gulacsi and others in the reserves. The main difference between our situation with the other two clubs is that the Mancs & Barcelona integrated their youngsters while they were champions or being close at the top end of the table, while we are closer to a midtable team than a top one.

I'm afraid that integrating those youngsters into the 1st team, we first need to be competing and winning stuff and thus it becomes easier for them to make their breakthrough, as their mistakes won't be noticed and there won't be enough pressure on them to perform beyond their abilities. I'm afraid that if FSG expect that we can become a top class team by integrating youngsters without spending money for the short term success that we're not going to be the team they like to be as in order for us to successful in the long term we need to be successful in the short & medium term and that won't happen without spending money. Forget about Arsenal losing players they brought through their academies because they're not winning stuff, if FSG aren't careful, I'm afraid we'd become a club like Everton or West Ham not in stature but in the sense that once a top young player makes a series of first team appearances and impresses, they'll demand to be sold to the other bigger clubs (as I mentioned previously FSG's plan assume football clubs stay static) and we'll have no other option but to sell them like what happened with Rooney, Rodwell, Lampard, Cole, Ferdinand and co.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 11:08:19 pm by Y2J »
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Offline Cid

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #162 on: September 3, 2012, 11:07:28 pm »
A lot of sense in this post.

Some harp on about the Swansea pass and move style as if they have invented it.  It's bloody nonsense!  Believe it or not some of the football we played last season was pretty damned good pass and move style footy.  What we didnt do was put the damned ball in the net!

Brendan Rodgers has been brought in and feted like some bloody Messiah that we have been looking for for years - based on what?

The example of Villas-Boas is a good one.  He went to Chelsea full of big ideas of instilling a particular style of football into the team and failed miserably.  They slid down the table, had poor results but there didnt seem to be any 'plan B' to stop the rot.  In the end of course he lost his job.  Same club, same players, different tactics and Manager and they go on to do pretty damned well.

Thanks to a cock up of a transfer season, where someone made the stupid decision to let all of our strikers leave, we have a pitifully thin squad and little in the way of firepower.  So, what is Rogers going to do, what is his plan B if the players he has can't get results playing the Swansea way?

Last season getting to 2 Cup finals, winning one, getting into Europe and finishing 8th apparently wasn't good enough for JWH and his cohorts.  Now, all the open letters in the world doesn't cover the fact that our administration is piss poor, our off pitch decision making ludicrously amateurish and our relatively inexperienced manager has been left with a huge task on his hands because of it.

The fact that JWH has felt it necessary to make such a public statement shows just how much heat has been aimed at them, and rightly so.  We have nothing like a proper Board structure to run the club and seem to be reliant on Ayre, who for all his expertise at negotiating commercial things, is not tested or experienced in dealing with player negotiation.

JWH's open letter will mean nothing except yet more empty words unless we get people in to run the club effectively and I do not mean yet more TransAtlantic appointments.

They have had 2 yrs to get the club sorted and failed miserably, and it does not bode well for the future of the Club.


Very well said.

My fear is they chose Brendan and his system not for the football benefits but for the the financial. One of the key elements of his philosophy is the system being more important than the personnel and I can't help but wonder if FSG are being led up the garden path and believe they can regain top 4 on a shoestring just by keeping the ball more.

Rodgers philosophy is not new, and he wasn't even responsible for instilling it at Swansea. If this amazing possession football is going to change the game in the UK then we'll always be playing catch up to Swansea anyway right?

Buying into this is naive. Believing ffp will happen is naive, putting a commercial director in charge of transfers is naive and sanctioning a 35m fee for a player who has spend 6 months in the league is fucking moronic. Their mistakes and their gambles don't hurt them,  they hurt the club and they hurt us fans. Fsg have no consequences and are happy if the business side is doing well.

We never accepted failure under the tumours. We fought. We never accepted it when Hodgson played down expectations, we fought.  Now we have owners and Manager telling us we should accept being mid table for a few years, half a decade at most. We are quietly nodding along.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 11:09:27 pm by Cid »

Offline belfast-connection

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #163 on: September 3, 2012, 11:07:30 pm »
Not a big fan of PR and the Henry letter positively vibrates with spin in every inch of its being

The fact that it's relatively well-informed spin is another worry - the statement attempts to justify its own existence with the acceptance that there have been 'mistakes' in the past 18 months and is simply a regurgitation of what every Tom, Dick & Harry LFC fan seems to accept about Comolli and Kenny's reign

But the fact that it's gotten to this point must be the biggest worry, i.e. the fact that we need the OWNER to descend from the ivory tower and give himself the dreaded vote of confidence shows once again that there's a complete dearth of leadership, nouse, commonsense, footballing integrity at the club and that I think is what annoys the fans most of all

There aren't too many who want a Man City type splurge that the club cannot afford - very few were asking for or accepting that

But we want purpose, progress and a plan - we seem to be lacking all three

And the suspicion that there's an internal struggle going on behind the scenes is another distinct possibility - just as I'm writing this twitter tells me that  the Times is running with the line that there will no free agents signed by Liverpool this season to make up for the deadline day clusterfuck - again Rodgers is having his balls cut off for him

Whether the Times are running that on behalf of the owners or whether Rodgers is now briefing Barrett et all against the ownership remains to be seen but the fact that that news is coming out at all within hours of this statement indicates that once again all is not right within the club and we have a den of vipers at each other's throats whilst supposedly doing the best to be 'custodians' of this great club/ storied franchise etc.

As a supporter I can see the benefit in 'cutting the wage bill' if indeed it has spiralled out of control as appears to be common consensus

As a supporter I am envious of Spurs and Newcastle, clubs that realisticallly cannot have our income streams who seem ready and willing to put well-placed money out there when required to build stronger more cohesive squads than us - fiscal responsibility must play a large part in that

But fiscal responsibility for the sake of fiscal responsibility is the way of the mid-table club hoping for Premier League survival ; with fiscal responsibility must come the ability to allocate your resources in a manner that brings footballing progress on the pitch, otherwise you're no longer really a 'football club' and you're a vessel for the aggrandisement of shareholders, whether by providing dividends or expanding the capital resource for a resale in due course - I don't want that; it may be less heart-wrenching than being the vessel of the bank as we were under H&G but I want to feel like a club again - a well-run one at that and one that exists to win trophies

To do that I'd like to see people pulling in the right direction, the same direction and all being on the same page

FSG may well have gotten their fingers burnt last season; I wouldn't blame them from being cautious about putting their hand in the fire again but what they simply cannot do is speak with forked tongues when discussing football matters with the football men at the club - that way destruction, instability and ruin lies - Rodgers will walk, Rafa would never come back, no self-respecting football man would ever come back etc.

You cannot tell a manager one thing and do another; and my biggest concern out of the whole deadline day clusterfuck was that is exactly what happened

Personally I don't buy the line that Ayre is a complete idiot; he might rub people up the wrong way but that seems to be the role of the CEO at our club - who was the last CEO that the fanbase actually liked? However to get into the position he is in he must have a basic modicum of competence that would've told him that going home at 8.00pm on deadline day was a bad idea if there was any prospect of a deal being done; and he must have known that there was no prospect as the owners had not funded prospective deals appropriately

Those facts must at least give rise to the very strong inference of owners speaking with forked tongues; saying one thing to get Carroll off the books, even if only for a year, then saying something else when it came time to deliver their side of the bargain.

So yeah John Henry, whilst I respect your right to cut the wage bill and streamline the outgoings I don't respect the right to do it in a way that makes the manager and the club look like idiots and the fanbase feel like they're being cheated

Whether that requires a new CEO, or better communication or simply a season with a much reduced wage bill to build up a 'treasure chest' for next season I'm not quite sure, but I'm not convinced that it's any of the above - but whatever it is it should be sorted out pronto and we as a fanbase must strive to be better informed on what is going on behind the scences

as I was writing this somebody posted Barrett from tonight on the page - telling the manager that he could sign Dempsey 'in principle' but not offering the resources to do it seems a bit like forked tongues to me - and it does seem we've got the good old back-room back-biting back in the corridors of power at Anfield
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Offline the 92A

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #164 on: September 3, 2012, 11:08:40 pm »
Great post 92A.  I'm not sure I understand the statement above, can you add more detail regarding the 'Lyon Soccernomics' comment please.
During our search for a new manager it looked like FSG wanted a management structure designed to act as a balance against a coach soley determining the playing staff. The structure that was being talked about looked remarkably like the structure Lyon have implemented in France and has been instrumental in Lyon becoming a successful club that is always knocking on the door of European success despite being a non traditional european team. The Chapter in Soccenomics explained thebenefits of the structure wellbut in my humble opinion it wouldn't have worked well at Liverpool as at Lyon.
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Offline peachybum

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #165 on: September 3, 2012, 11:08:48 pm »
Why is the owner making footballing decisions?

Because he left them up to Kenny/Comolli and has obviously been spooked. So certains thing have been put in place. Like not spending money on 29 y/o.

As i've said hopefully when Fallows is in place things will get better. The more options that can be identified the greater chance that everybody will agree on one.
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Offline TALBERT

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #166 on: September 3, 2012, 11:09:48 pm »
if you sell youre best players too early, youre on a hiding to nothing....terrible idea

For Agger I don't think it's too early at all

But if you don't they will reach 30 be on a large wage packet and be worth fuck all
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Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #167 on: September 3, 2012, 11:10:17 pm »
Reading that Barrett piece just confuses me more if i'm honest. Rodgers doesn't seem trusted enough. Internal dispute over Allens value ? The manager gets his way in the end and look how its turned out so far, MOTM by a distance in 3 consecutive league games. Now excluding the Arsenal one due to the timing of it (after the transfer window closing) and Rodgers judgement on the value of a player is called into question again for another player in Dempsey ? They will back him but only up to the £4 million mark. £4 million is okay but £6 million is too expensive ?

Okay it seems others are involved but who is essentially deciding the value of these players against the judgement of Rodgers ? Who decides that £2 million difference is too much and doesn't fit into the transfer strategy ? Footballing decisions need to be made by the man who has been in football for years.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 11:13:52 pm by RyanBabel19 »

Offline Severely

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #168 on: September 3, 2012, 11:10:54 pm »
I think FSG genuinely want what's best for Liverpool Football Club. I'm not being naive, but of course they do, that is, after all, what's best for them isn't it? I think it's obvious there's a direction they want to head us in.The problem is the execution. They lack knowledge in football, and for some reason, we don't have people who do understand it in the higher positions in the club. I thought the idea of a committee including Borrell and Segura sounded very promising, but for whatever reason, that hasn't happened; they weren't promoted. That's what's key for me right now. Before January, we need to get in someone to take over Ayre's current position, someone who has experience and success at this level. Maybe they could keep Ayre around too, because say what you will, but our transfer dealings up til deadline day were fairly canny, we got a few bargains and didn't get ripped off on anyone.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #169 on: September 3, 2012, 11:11:00 pm »
Not great reading that, and pretty much in line with what I expected the situation to be.

No, it's not great reading. And we've just started the season.

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #170 on: September 3, 2012, 11:11:18 pm »
Because he left them up to Kenny/Comolli and has obviously been spooked. So certains thing have been put in place. Like not spending money on 29 y/o.

As i've said hopefully when Fallows is in place things will get better. The more options that can be identified the greater chance that everybody will agree on one.

What is his qualifications to make footballing choices?
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #171 on: September 3, 2012, 11:13:19 pm »
Something went wrong it must have been the rush to get rid.

Tony Barrett ‏@TonyBarretTimes

a £1 million loan fee for Carroll? Six years ago #LFC got a £2.5m loan fee for Scott Carson! Bad business whatever way you look at it



That's a load of spurious bollocks and Tony should be ashamed of that sort of red top headline grabbing shite. WHU have effectively paid £5/6m to loan Carroll this season.

Offline peachybum

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #172 on: September 3, 2012, 11:13:27 pm »
For Agger I don't think it's too early at all

But if you don't they will reach 30 be on a large wage packet and be worth fuck all

With only 48 months left on his deal and coming off a great Euro's it was probably the time to sell Agger. But of course nobody wants to hear that until they see our squad depth is shite and we don't have money to do anything about it.
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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #173 on: September 3, 2012, 11:13:53 pm »

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #174 on: September 3, 2012, 11:13:56 pm »
Not great reading that, and pretty much in line with what I expected the situation to be.

It's fucking farcical, FSG are utterly clueless it seems, give the manager a budget and let him make the footballing decisions.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #175 on: September 3, 2012, 11:14:02 pm »
It is also extremely worrying that after 2 league games the manager is not being trusted over 2m quid. It kind of clarifies why BR got the job and not an experienced manager.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #176 on: September 3, 2012, 11:21:15 pm »
So John Henry is deciding on the valuation's of footballers he's probably never heard of,brilliant.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #177 on: September 3, 2012, 11:21:34 pm »
Well this thread has gone downhill from page one, Fordy your disenchantment with FSG and Rodgers seems to have increased since Friday any reason for that then?
I am not convinced but at the moment I am going for cock up merchants rather than corrupt, we need somebody instead of Ayre who knows what they are doing and more importantly has more clout and credibility with the FA
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Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #178 on: September 3, 2012, 11:22:35 pm »
No I'm not

I would sell both

There value is very very high...

We are a long term club....

Take the money for selling these two say 30m and spend that on 4-6 young players on 20k-30k a week

Wait a couple of years and maybe half of them will make it and be worth 15-20m

It's actually something I'm starting to ponder about us. I look at this side and I see young players with fresh idea's on one hand(Allen,Sterling,Shelvey,Borini etc) but mentally scarred individuals on the other (Reina,Gerrard,Skrtel,Agger) with players of debatable value in between (Downing,Enrique etc). We're looking at a long term project, both on and off the pitch, so is it better to get a huge amount next summer for players who it's fair to say carry baggage and use that cash influx on fresh,young hungry players who can grow as a team together (similar to what Dortmund have done). Or do we keep trying this failing patchwork job of bringing in new faces in hope it repairs damaged goods?

Personally I'm starting to think it needs the former.

Offline TALBERT

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #179 on: September 3, 2012, 11:23:41 pm »
It is also extremely worrying that after 2 league games the manager is not being trusted over 2m quid. It kind of clarifies why BR got the job and not an experienced manager.

Interesting to see that a Brendan rival AVB was splashing the cash and making all the headlines on deadline day and through out the transfer window

They backed him with Sigursson, Adebayour, Dembele, Dempsey and Lloris

Lloris, Gnomes, Fridel and Cudicini

They even went for Lloris when they had 3 senior keepers on there books... No sell to buy there no loans etc

Fine they sold Modric and Van Der Varrt but they kept Bale and added alot of quality all over the field

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #180 on: September 3, 2012, 11:24:13 pm »
There are a couple of points which Tony doesn't examine. Why did the pursuit of Dempsey, which had been ongoing for 3 months keep going on till 8pm on Friday evening? If it was all about Henry's "vision" for the club did they not once sit down and discuss this earlier in the summer? Doesn't wash with me that it's all down to that. Did he just decide to keep it quiet for 3 months? If Ayre was leading the negotiations why did it take till so late on deadline day to realise Fulham wouldn't accept anything less than £4m and considering we did our last bit of major business the week before with Sahin why did it take till so late for us to table a bid of £4m? Was it simply a case of waiting to convince Carroll to take the West Ham offer? If we wanted Sturridge on loan could we not have sounded out the possibility earlier and worked out, even 24 hours earlier, that Sturridge only wanted a permanent move and not a loan? Why on earth did we not have ANY contingency plans in place? Why is neither Rodgers or Ayre's role in it mentioned at all? Strange article that.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2012, 11:25:52 pm by Guz-kop »
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #181 on: September 3, 2012, 11:24:14 pm »
Bloody hell. That's not a pleasant read that.

EDIT: the article also reeks if an off record briefing from someone very senior close to all this. And it paints Ayre in a half decent light. I'm sure these two things are entirely unrelated.

Amazingly Bascombe was singing Ayre's praises earlier as well.

Still it doesn't make great reading on the relationship between owners and manager, it sounds very much like Rodgers had already been warned off on signing Dempsey but tried to force the owners hand on this one by letting Carroll go, which raises a lot of questions about how this was handled on all sides.

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #182 on: September 3, 2012, 11:24:54 pm »
Barret tonight
How the fuck can John Henry, a person who probably didn't watch a football match before he bought the club, value a player based on just his age that he probably never heard off?

This is so worrying.

I said it days ago and I will say it again but it seems to me in the owners minds, a 23 year old center mid would be off better value to the team than Xabi Alonso simply because he's younger and has a resale value while not taking into account what does he bring on the field or their abilities. Seems I was right.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #183 on: September 3, 2012, 11:25:43 pm »
One problem with appointing a CEO is that Henry sells himself to the investors of FSG as a visionary who finds a new fresh way of being successful. His modus operandi is to employ bright young people like Epstein who think outside the box. Werner has made it very clear that Henry dragged FSG into the purchase of LFC. Can Henry really now change tack and do what everyone else does in having a Traditional experienced CEO. Henrys  whole reputation is based on bringing a scientific approach to sport can he really abandon that and then back old fashioned football acumen and nous.Is the constant scapegoating for our benefit or just to keep his investors sweet. Is the constant attempts to portray Rodgers as a saviour for our benefit or for Henrys   investors. High finance is all about keeping the confidence of your investors . Last year FSG had to pump in a 30m loan into the Club maybe an unwillingness to do that again is behind the plug being pulled in the last couple of days.
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Offline woof

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #184 on: September 3, 2012, 11:27:28 pm »
A lot of the blame goes to Comolli for over-paying the odds for some expensive flops. FSG has been bitten once and it's only natural for them to be so cautious now. Having said that, I still believe they should have honoured what they promised BR

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #185 on: September 3, 2012, 11:31:00 pm »
During our search for a new manager it looked like FSG wanted a management structure designed to act as a balance against a coach soley determining the playing staff. The structure that was being talked about looked remarkably like the structure Lyon have implemented in France and has been instrumental in Lyon becoming a successful club that is always knocking on the door of European success despite being a non traditional european team. The Chapter in Soccenomics explained thebenefits of the structure wellbut in my humble opinion it wouldn't have worked well at Liverpool as at Lyon.

Last I checked, Lyon weren't doing that great either. Didn't qualify for the CL, had an overinflated team by bringing in good domestic "talent" (sounds familiar, yeah) and have, unfortunately, become a selling club.
This summer they said everyone of their players is for sale and actually got rid of the players that were major stars in the team - Kallstrom, Cris, Lloris are the first names that spring to mind. They even touted Gomis and Lopez (their high-scoring strikers) to willing buyers.
Who did they bring in, you say? Rejects and 2nd rate players like Steed Malbranque.

And no, don't even try with the "look how well they started the season" - the league is a marathon and not a race and West Brom is in second place now.
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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #186 on: September 3, 2012, 11:31:07 pm »
How the fuck can John Henry, a person who probably didn't watch a football match before he bought the club, value a player based on just his age that he probably never heard off?

This is so worrying.

I said it days ago and I will say it again but it seems to me in the owners minds, a 23 year old center mid would be off better value to the team than Xabi Alonso simply because he's younger and has a resale value while not taking into account what does he bring on the field or their abilities. Seems I was right.
Indeed.They seen to want to make player recruitment into a mathematical formula,it's no surprise some nobody behind a computer is becoming increasingly influential behind the scenes.

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #187 on: September 3, 2012, 11:31:50 pm »
We have none football people running the Club we once new.

For me FSG are one degree removed from H&G, their motives are the same, financial return.

The Club has never had rockier foundations, the infrastructure has almost ceased to exist and FSG seem to manage us by Conference call from the US.

Who is the Clubs figure head?  Where is the Charismatic leader with a deep rooted understanding of Football in this Country, who can reign in avaricious Agents, who can manage the FA?

We are just a vessel for financial return. I'm resigned to that.  But anyone who thinks FSG are here for the good of this Club are completely deluded.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #188 on: September 3, 2012, 11:32:41 pm »
Well this thread has gone downhill from page one, Fordy your disenchantment with FSG and Rodgers seems to have increased since Friday any reason for that then?

Cause it was a massive. Stated before Rodgers needed to control the situation.

Should of got the players in 1st before hanging out the players he didn't want to dry and decreasing their value at the same time.

He was navie.

As for FSG - Just read what TB put in the Times above - Didn't back their man with an extra 2m -Why? Cause they think that they know better.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #189 on: September 3, 2012, 11:33:02 pm »
Interesting to see that a Brendan rival Luís André de Pina Cabral e Villas-Boas was splashing the cash and making all the headlines on deadline day and through out the transfer window

They backed him with Sigursson, Adebayour, Dembele, Dempsey and Lloris

Lloris, Gnomes, Fridel and Cudicini

They even went for Lloris when they had 3 senior keepers on there books... No sell to buy there no loans etc

Fine they sold Modric and Van Der Varrt but they kept Bale and added alot of quality all over the field



And after drawing with Norwich they were roundly booed off the pitch fans hey?
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #190 on: September 3, 2012, 11:33:21 pm »
This is what I don't get about FSG

Short term is offering Agger a new higher contract

Long term is selling Agger for a huge fee and reinvesting the money on young future players at low wages and waiting for them to come good....

Lucas has come good, as I reckon Coates, Kelly and Sterling will

Wilson hasn't nor has Pacheco

Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Downing, Cole all need to go


Some posters can't accept the fact we aren't spunking out money on a striker and that we're relying on too many young players to become good. Could you imagine the RAWK meltdown if we sold one of our best players only to put the money into more younger players that need time to become good?
Oh, these sour times.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #191 on: September 3, 2012, 11:34:20 pm »
Amazingly Bascombe was singing Ayre's praises earlier as well.

Still it doesn't make great reading on the relationship between owners and manager, it sounds very much like Rodgers had already been warned off on signing Dempsey but tried to force the owners hand on this one by letting Carroll go, which raises a lot of questions about how this was handled on all sides.

Yes. It seems we had some sort of power struggle. And today we had a statement from Henry, plus this piece by Barrett. Can only hope that we can learn from this and sort things out sooner rather than later.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #192 on: September 3, 2012, 11:34:22 pm »
I said it days ago and I will say it again but it seems to me in the owners minds, a 23 year old center mid would be off better value to the team than Xabi Alonso simply because he's younger and has a resale value while not taking into account what does he bring on the field or their abilities. Seems I was right.
But Xabi Alonso isn't up for sale, so your reaching at best although I understand what you are saying and it is worrying John Henry is getting involved, although the article isn't detailed enough for me.
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Offline The Playmaker

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #193 on: September 3, 2012, 11:35:04 pm »
If he keeps playing Suarez as 9, Borini on the right and use Morgan on the right then BR stands no chance.

Of course we will improve but is a given but if had to put money on then I would put money on that we will finish worse than 8th.

Why you backing Rodgers - Just? Thing is Rodgers needs to prove himself like Hodgson had too.

To say I back him isn't good enough. I believe in him and feel he will come good but he was very, navie in the transfer market and is rushing this change for fancy passing football.
I agree that Rodgers needs to prove himself here at this club and like I wrote, he has a huge task on his hands to do well this season. It’s going to be difficult for us this season because we failed to bring in any fire-power during the summer. We had enough time to do so and it will leave us short until January at the very least.

Everyone at the club has to prove themselves, including the owners because they hired Rodgers in the first place. Yes, he needs to make some tactical adjustments and perhaps needs to need to even adjust the style to gain results too but we’re only a few games in to the season and we’ve made mistakes here and there.

There is a lot of work to do. We need to be patient but I understand that there is obviously a need for the team to also be getting results home and away otherwise the pressure will crank up very quickly. Rodgers strikes me as a man who is brave enough to make bold decisions so let's see what he's got.

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #194 on: September 3, 2012, 11:35:25 pm »
Indeed.They seen to want to make player recruitment into a mathematical formula,it's no surprise some nobody behind a computer is becoming increasingly influential behind the scenes.

What about all the other deals? And despite what it says about Allen, they did sanction it in the end.

I don't want John Henry involved in transfers at all, but a similar system was mentioned before (a committee) and clearly after Kenny/Commolli they want some assurances before spending their money. Once bitten.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #195 on: September 3, 2012, 11:37:43 pm »

Should of got the players in 1st before hanging out the players he didn't want to dry and decreasing their value at the same time.

He was navie.



We bought Allen and got Sahin before we got rid of Spearing and Adam, two first team players last season, which completely goes against what you say.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #196 on: September 3, 2012, 11:38:00 pm »
Why you backing Rodgers - Just? Thing is Rodgers needs to prove himself like Hodgson had too.


Bit unfair to compare Rodgers to Hodgson at this stage.
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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #197 on: September 3, 2012, 11:40:01 pm »
How the fuck can John Henry, a person who probably didn't watch a football match before he bought the club, value a player based on just his age that he probably never heard off?

This is so worrying.

I said it days ago and I will say it again but it seems to me in the owners minds, a 23 year old center mid would be off better value to the team than Xabi Alonso simply because he's younger and has a resale value while not taking into account what does he bring on the field or their abilities. Seems I was right.

This is what terrifies me and again raises questions that we as fans shouldn't have to ask. Who the fuck is in control of what decisions at the club when it comes to buying and selling players ?

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Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #198 on: September 3, 2012, 11:41:08 pm »
Andy Hunter in the Guardian says similar things to Tony Barrett

Quote
Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool position undermined by FSG over Dempsey

When the former Swansea manager took over, he thought he had established that he was 'in charge of football matters' but the events of the transfer window suggest otherwise

Andy Hunter
guardian.co.uk, Monday 3 September 2012 22.34 BST

Arguably the greater concern for Brendan Rodgers in his thwarted pursuit of Clint Dempsey was not the lack of money shown by Liverpool's owners but their lack of trust. Its absence before the third Premier League game of Rodgers's reign as manager is the principal reason the Anfield soap opera has started even earlier this season.

When Rodgers was unveiled as Kenny Dalglish's successor on 1 June he had successfully, after three rounds of talks with John W Henry and Tom Werner, ensured he would be a manager left to manage. So he thought. Plans for a sporting director had been shelved, there would be no ominous figure such as Louis van Gaal for the rising young coach to contend with and he "would be in charge of football matters".

Prophetically, in light of Friday's non-event of a transfer deadline day at Liverpool, he elaborated on that optimistic day: "I am better when I have control. I am not a power freak. But my point is that I need to feel that I can manage in terms of the team and I have a direct, clear line through to the owners. Once that becomes hazed and grey, for me there is a problem." It was hardly the radical overhaul of English football management that Fenway Sports Group had envisaged for Liverpool but a sensible compromise by owners wanting a clean slate under Rodgers nonetheless.

Fast forward to last Thursday night. The Liverpool manager has let Andy Carroll join West Ham United on loan with no replacement secured and, having negotiated a passage into the Europa League group stage with an aggregate victory over Hearts, makes a late-night phone-call to Boston to outline the case for Dempsey again. Rodgers was well aware of FSG's preference, to use the contents of Henry's letter of appeasement to Liverpool supporters, for "a self-sustaining pool of youngsters imbued in the club's traditions" and not "expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years". He was also conscious of the owners' fears, having squandered a fortune on Carroll, Stewart Downing, Jordan Henderson and Charlie Adam under Dalglish and Damien Comolli. Hence, for example, his refusal to bow to Gylfi Sigurdsson's wage demands before the Icelandic midfielder ended up at White Hart Lane.

[But having slashed the wage bill and recouped roughly a third of his £29m transfer spend through transfer and loan fees, and with only Luis Suárez and Fabio Borini left as a strike force, he had reason to believe FSG would deliver a 29-year-old scorer of 23 goals last season who was desperate to join Liverpool. They responded by offering Fulham less than the fee already agreed with Aston Villa – whether it was £3m as Fulham claim or Liverpool's £4m, it was still less than Villa's £5m plus add-ons – and undermined Rodgers' judgment at a stroke. It once again raises the question of who is advising FSG?

Given that Henry's first appointment as principal owner was Comolli, whom he quickly promoted to director of football, it is clear the advice has been questionable from the start of FSG's reign almost two years ago. "There are operational things we need to sort out," said Rodgers after Sunday's defeat by Arsenal.

The club's transfer dealings this summer were not helped by Manchester City placing Dave Fallows on gardening leave once he had accepted the job of Liverpool's head of scouting and recruitment and some suspect FSG pays more heed to the data provided by the head of analytics, Michael Edwards, than the opinions of the club's manager.

Henry's open letter reads like a check list of the criticisms received on Twitter since Friday and demonstrated the acute sensitivity of the Liverpool hierarchy. The rift between owners and manager is not irreparable far from it, but taking flak via social media in Boston is nothing compared with what could befall Rodgers on the touchline at Anfield should Friday's inaction take its toll.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/sep/03/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-fsg-dempsey
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Offline TALBERT

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Re: Re: John Henry's open letter to fans
« Reply #199 on: September 3, 2012, 11:41:49 pm »

Some posters can't accept the fact we aren't spunking out money on a striker and that we're relying on too many young players to become good. Could you imagine the RAWK meltdown if we sold one of our best players only to put the money into more younger players that need time to become good?

I argue that FSG have to do one or another

Sell the so called aging well payed stars for the highest value

And buy sone youngsters

If the third highest goal scorer last season isn't worth 7m then why is Joe Allen worth 15m?

Reckon Allen was sanctioned just to get the smiling pics of Brendan before they fucked him over on deadline day....

Michael Owen on a free, any contract pay and play represents no value for money at all.
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